Activism Change » Youth activism

Tobacco Use and Obesity Hit Least Educated, Lowest Income Americans Hardest

admin — Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Tobacco Use and Obesity Hit Least Educated, Lowest Income Americans Hardest Monday May 31, 10:00 am ET American Legacy Foundation(R) calls for equal attention to the ‘twin epidemics’ WASHINGTON, May 31 /PRNewswire/ — As the nation observes World No Tobacco Day today, the American Legacy Foundation released a new analysis showing America’s most disadvantaged populations are carrying the burden of two major public health epidemics — smoking and obesity. This research, released on the heels of the Surgeon General’s Report on the Health Consequences of Smoking last week, is a stark reminder that tobacco remains a public health threat, especially to those with the fewest resources. Tobacco-related disease is the number-one preventable cause of death in the United States, killing 440,000 Americans each year and afflicting thousands of others with heart disease, cancer, emphysema, stroke and other tobacco-related diseases. For the American Legacy Foundation analysis, data was taken from the National Center for Health Statistics, 2002 National Health Interview Survey — collected from American men and women aged 18 and older. The statistics show that smoking and obesity prevalence rates are both connected to income levels and education. However, there is very little overlap among smokers and those who are obese. "Smoking and obesity are both very important public health concerns for our country," American Legacy Foundation President and CEO Cheryl Healton, Dr.PH. said. "Obesity is a growing concern, but tobacco remains the deadliest and costliest health threat to our country. It is important that we identify resources to help individuals overcome difficulties with each of these epidemics." Of those individuals below the poverty level, 34 percent smoke, 27 percent are obese, and 8 percent are obese and smoke. In comparison, among those earning four times more than the poverty level, only 18 percent smoke, 21 percent are obese, and 4 percent are obese and smoke. This new data also illustrates that individuals with lower levels of education have higher rates of tobacco use and obesity. Specifically, data show that people with high school general equivalency diplomas, or GEDs, are nearly four times more likely to use tobacco and much more likely to be obese than people with a college degree. The data presented today demonstrates the dire need for resources — from quit smoking clinics, to consumer call lines, to effective educational campaigns — to be made available for anyone who wants to quit smoking. The foundation advises individuals who want to quit to make a plan, identify their triggers, use pharmacotherapy products, and seek social support from their friends and family. "It is clear that there is a direct correlation between income levels and these two health epidemics," Healton said. "Both of these issues are also costing Americans billions of dollars each year in Medicare and Medicaid. It is a vicious cycle; those with the fewest resources are the most affected by these problems." The American Legacy Foundation is dedicated to building a world where young people reject tobacco and anyone can quit. Located in Washington, DC, the foundation develops programs that address the health effects of tobacco use through grants, technical assistance and training, youth activism, strategic partnerships, counter-marketing and grass roots marketing campaigns, public relations and outreach to populations disproportionately affected by the toll of tobacco. The foundation’s national programs include Circle of Friends(TM), Great Start, a Priority Populations Initiative, Streetheory and truth

R

admin — Tue, 27 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

NPR

admin — Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I didn’t say you were a student at the time in question. However, you have admitted that you were at the scene of the crime. You fucking idiot, they don’t give accounts to people who are not students or faculty.

Indeed, and the student’s account was hacked by you, either by stealing the password or using the terminal when the student left it logged on unattended. The harassment emails came shorthly thereafter: This is your idea of "proof"? I’ve seen some sorry cases on Usenet, but this is pretty fucking sad.

Anyone with rudimentary knowledge of literary forensics can see that the author of the offending emails is Y-O-U. — That would be hilarious if Bush won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College. That would be fuunnnnnnnnnnay! Tim (Skidmark) Brown, Ralph Nader "supporter"

Response:

said: I didn’t say you were a student at the time in question. However, you have admitted that you were at the scene of the crime. You fucking idiot, they don’t give accounts to people who are not students or faculty.

Indeed, and the student’s account was hacked by you, either by stealing the password, or using the terminal when the student left the computer logged in and unattended. The harassment emails came shorthly thereafter: This is your idea of "proof"? I’ve seen some sorry cases on Usenet, but this is pretty fucking sad.

Anybody with a rudimentary understanding of literary forensics can see that the author of the harassing emails is Y-O-U. — That would be hilarious if Bush won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College. That would be fuunnnnnnnnnnay! Tim (Skidmark) Brown, Ralph Nader "supporter"

Response:

said: Indeed, and the student’s account was hacked by you, either by stealing the password or using the terminal when the student left it logged on unattended.

Then PPOSTFU. Anyone with rudimentary knowledge of literary forensics can see that the author of the offending emails is Y-O-U.

Translated from the language of an idiot trying futilely to sound intelligent this means: "It’s impossible to prove who wrote the e-mails, so I’ll try to ‘prove’ who wrote them just by accusing someone of writing them." — I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! —— http://www.todayslastword.org ——-

Response:

said: Indeed, and the student’s account was hacked by you, either by stealing the password or using the terminal when the student left it logged on unattended. Then PPOSTFU.

I already have. In fact, I think I’ll contact the man with the curly hair and ask him if you were in the computer room on that date. — That would be hilarious if Bush won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College. That would be fuunnnnnnnnnnay! Tim (Skidmark) Brown, Ralph Nader "supporter"

Response:

Mullin) said: Unlike you, I haven’t hacked an NKU student’s account, to send harassing emails.

Congratulations, dipshit, you just earned yourself and Nyx a defamation lawsuit. Hope you’re satisfied now. The next weekday I get off work (a word you’re not familiar with) early, I’m picking up the forms at the Newport courthouse. Hell, if they have the forms online, I might not even need to wait. Feel free to keep up your LALawsuit threats from 5 years ago – I actually follow through.

I was not a student at NKU in October 1997, and if you want to argue this fact, then it’s public record. Sorry, you lose. — I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! —— http://www.todayslastword.org ——-

Response:

Mullin) said: Unlike you, I haven’t hacked an NKU student’s account, to send harassing emails. Congratulations, dipshit, you just earned yourself and Nyx a defamation lawsuit. Hope you’re satisfied now. The next weekday I get off work (a word you’re not familiar with) early, I’m picking up the forms at the Newport courthouse. Hell, if they have the forms online, I might not even need to wait.

Your threats don’t scare me. I will continue to post the truth. I was not a student at NKU in October 1997, and if you want to argue this fact, then it’s public record.

I didn’t say you were a student at the time in question. However, you have admitted that you were at the scene of the crime. X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2 X-Nntp-Posting-User: bathroom Organization: The Left-Wingers Club Newsgroups: alt.zines,alt.activism,alt.ezines,alt.censorship,alt.politics.radical-left, alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.activism.youth-rights,alt.politics.liberalism,alt .society.liberalism,alt.politics.greens,alt.conspiracy,alt.fuck.racists GUESS WHO’S GOING BACK TO SCHOOL? Effective last Thursday, I have been officially removed from NKU’s list of public enemies, enabling me to resume my 21st long year of schooling. I guess this means I won’t be adding any university officials to my Enemies List. My Enemies List’s perfect record of each member having a single-digit IQ thus remains intact. (There’s still only one inductee profiled on "America’s Most Wanted", and I have learned that another–a former classmate of mine who started my feud with NKU–is accused of rape, but that’s another subject for another thesaurus.) For once, somebody who has been against me has finally admitted they were voopvoopavoop WRONG! The harassment emails came shorthly thereafter: Received: from nkuaxp.nku.edu (nkuaxp.nku.edu [192.122.237.1]) by nyx10.nyx.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/esr) with ESMTP id NAA25543 Received: from OPAC3.nku.edu (OPAQ3.nku.edu) by NKU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-9 #22019) ed, MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO quit fucking farm animals, you nazi !!!! — That would be hilarious if Bush won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College. That would be fuunnnnnnnnnnay! Tim (Skidmark) Brown, Ralph Nader "supporter"

Response:

said: Your threats don’t scare me.

What threats? I already downloaded the form and filled out my parts. All it needs is the Circuit Court Clerk’s signature. In other words, you are S-C-R-E-W-E-D this time, unlike the old days. If you had let the matter drop for good instead of bringing up your lies from 5 years ago, there wouldn’t be a lawsuit. If you want to be shuffled from New York all the way to Newport for a court case, that’s your problem. It’s too late for you and Nyx to avoid a lawsuit now. You made an LALawsuit threat 5 years ago and still haven’t filed yet. Well, BRING IT ON! I will continue to post the truth.

It’s impossible to "continue" what one hasn’t been doing in the first place. I didn’t say you were a student at the time in question. However, you have admitted that you were at the scene of the crime.

You fucking idiot, they don’t give accounts to people who are not students or faculty. The harassment emails came shorthly thereafter:

This is your idea of "proof"? I’ve seen some sorry cases on Usenet, but this is pretty fucking sad. I worked (oops, it’s that word again) the day shift on Wednesdays back then, so I wouldn’t have had time to be on campus that day. Any idiot (such as you) could just cut and paste nku.edu into the domain of a real e-mail. — I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! —— http://www.todayslastword.org ——-

Response:

Mullin) said: You can’t admit that you’re wrong.

That’s because I wasn’t wrong. The First Amendment protects the freedom to broadcast the content that the original poster was referring to – not just stuff that agrees with your ultraconservative and racist views. Even if a station had broadcast a 30-minute special praising Rick Lazio, I’d defend their right to broadcast it – even though I strongly disagree with Lazio’s madcap, classist ideas. Typical ad hominem attack.

Says Mr. Ad Hominem himself, the guy who doesn’t understand the meaning of "support" in a newsgroup name. "Support", Billy, "support". Go look up that word in your Dr. Seuss dictionary. The original poster asked a question that was on-topic, and I gave her an answer that was equally on-topic. All you do is argue against legitimate newsgroup users without providing the reasons for your stance. By the way, how much did you "support" Ralph Nader in his 2000 bid for the Presidency? Your neighbor, Elizabeth A. Lemlich, was the only one in your town to contribute ($250 – and she’s retired!). http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp

Oh, so you’ve moved up from stalking individuals to stalking entire zip codes and cities. Wonderful. Yeah, I’m sure people are really scared that some Internet nutcase like William Mullin who is 600 miles away is digging up their campaign contributions. It’s usually your conservative pals who have gobs of cash to spend on political campaigns anyway. Unlike you, I haven’t been institutionalized.

Unlike you, I haven’t lied about being a police officer or falsely denied attending a certain university when it suited the purposes at hand. Unlike you, I haven’t posted anti-Semitic harangues to 80 newsgroups and then denied it. Unlike you, I haven’t abused a university account to post racial slurs on Usenet like you did in ‘96 or so. Unlike you, I haven’t sent vulgar, harassing e-mail to enemies and then accused the recipient of the e-mail of sending it themselves. Unlike you, I haven’t falsely accused a person of hacking into an ISP just because the ISP was down for a couple days – when the target of the accusation could prove he was on vacation when the ISP went offline. Unlike you, I have not committed a serious federal felony numerous times over the course of 5 years. Just quietly slink back to obscurity. It will save you much embarrassment. — I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! —— http://www.todayslastword.org ——-

Response:

Mullin) said: You can’t admit that you’re wrong. That’s because I wasn’t wrong.

Yes you are. The First Amendment protects the freedom to broadcast the content that the original poster was referring to

The original poster was asking for ways to counteract the misinformation provided by the radio program. A supportive person would offer suggestions (letter writing campaign; calling the station with a request for equal time, to refute the one-sided allegations presented by the biased program; or simply hit the station in the pocketbook – no more donations when Pledge Week rears its ugly head). By the way, how much did you "support" Ralph Nader in his 2000 bid for the Presidency? Your neighbor, Elizabeth A. Lemlich, was the only one in your town to contribute ($250 – and she’s retired!). http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp Oh, so you’ve moved up from stalking individuals to stalking entire zip codes and cities. Wonderful.

It’s all public information. Hardly "stalking" behavior, Skidmark. Unlike you, I haven’t been institutionalized. Unlike you, I haven’t lied about being a police officer or falsely denied attending a certain university when it suited the purposes at hand.

Timmy lies again, but that’s no surprise. Unlike you, I haven’t posted anti-Semitic harangues to 80 newsgroups and then denied it. Unlike you, I haven’t abused a university account to post racial slurs on Usenet like you did in ‘96 or so.

More lies from the Skidmark. Unlike you, I haven’t sent vulgar, harassing e-mail to enemies and then accused the recipient of the e-mail of sending it themselves.

Instead, you forged Cancel: messages on my posts in 1996 and 1997. So much for supposed love of the First Amendment, hypocrite. Unlike you, I haven’t falsely accused a person of hacking into an ISP just because the ISP was down for a couple days – when the target of the accusation could prove he was on vacation when the ISP went offline.

But you did manufacture a FAKE Cancel: message, in a sad attempt to frame me. When you failed, you made up a story that you were beaten up by an unknown assailant (the "Big Rack Attack"). You also lied that I sent you dirty pictures, without offering a shred of evidence. Unlike you, I have not committed a serious federal felony numerous times over the course of 5 years.

Unlike you, I haven’t hacked an NKU student’s account, to send harassing emails. Received: from nkuaxp.nku.edu (nkuaxp.nku.edu [192.122.237.1]) by nyx10.nyx.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/esr) with ESMTP id NAA25543 Received: from OPAC3.nku.edu (OPAQ3.nku.edu) by NKU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-9 #22019) ed, MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO quit fucking farm animals, you nazi !!!! Received: from nkuaxp.nku.edu (nkuaxp.nku.edu [192.122.237.1]) by nyx10.nyx.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/esr) with ESMTP id NAA25511 Received: from OPAC3.nku.edu (OPAQ3.nku.edu) by NKU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-9 #22019) , MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO fuck yourself asswipe Received: from nkuaxp.nku.edu (nkuaxp.nku.edu [192.122.237.1]) by nyx10.nyx.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/esr) with ESMTP id NAA25396 Received: from OPAC3.nku.edu (OPAQ3.nku.edu) by NKU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-9 #22019) , MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO you are one royal faggot, go fuck yourself nazi

Response:

Mullin) said: (Typical 3-word babyish response deleted) Hi, scumbag. Long time no smell. Poor little baby still upset 3 whole years after being exposed as the world-class liar and criminal that you are? Strange how some things never change. William Mullet is still a loser who doesn’t pay his bills and spends his days gnashing his teeth inside a cage. Awww, poor poor poor widdle baby doesn’t get his way anymore, so he throw a widdle fit. By the way, asshole, you forgot to include a conspiracy theory involving scissors, Dio, Richie Blackmore, and plungers in your reply like you often did in the old days. You must have lost your touch (as you did with reality many years ago). Given 3 whole years since then, one would think you would have tried to make something useful of yourself by now. But no. You will forever be a useless lump of tissue masquerading as a person. — I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! —— http://www.todayslastword.org ——-

Response:

Mullin) said: (Typical 3-word babyish response deleted)

You can’t admit that you’re wrong. Hi, scumbag. Long time no smell.

Typical ad hominem attack. Poor little baby still upset 3 whole years after being exposed as the world-class liar and criminal that you are?

You’re still whining nearly 5 years after being tapped for the Kook of the Month award. Strange how some things never change.

Indeed. You continue to disrupt this newsgroup with your worthless posts. By the way, asshole, you forgot to include a conspiracy theory involving scissors, Dio, Richie Blackmore, and plungers in your reply like you often did in the old days.

By the way, how much did you "support" Ralph Nader in his 2000 bid for the Presidency? Your neighbor, Elizabeth A. Lemlich, was the only one in your town to contribute ($250 – and she’s retired!). http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp You must have lost your touch (as you did with reality many years ago).

Unlike you, I haven’t been institutionalized. — That would be hilarious if Bush won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College. That would be fuunnnnnnnnnnay! Tim (Skidmark) Brown, Ralph Nader "supporter"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone else listen to NPR? Yesterday driving home from the doctor I heard this doctor Tom B? (don’t remember his last name) who was discussing how horrible Ritalin is and how he believes 7 millon kids are diagnosed with ADHD and how it works opposite on kids than it does on adults. I felt it was most irresponsible and the commentator was agreeing with him. Reminded me of a paid commercial show (like on late night tv the following program is a paid commercial advertisement). does NPR do that? if not is there anyway to deal with this misinformation? Who said it was misinformation? Would you care to substantiate that?

Nessa did. I’ll point out that it’s extremely bad form to quote someone unless you know who you’re quoting, so this was a pretty serious breach of netiquette. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: "Do not try to understand the bunny; that is impossible. Instead, try to understand the truth… there *IS* no bunny, and it is only your soul that runs"

Response:

if not is there anyway to deal with this misinformation?

Not without repealing the First Amendment. — I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! —— http://www.todayslastword.org ——-

Response:

if not is there anyway to deal with this misinformation? Not without repealing the First Amendment.

Wrong again, Skidmark. — That would be hilarious if Bush won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College. That would be fuunnnnnnnnnnay! Tim (Skidmark) Brown, Ralph Nader "supporter"

Response:

if not is there anyway to deal with this misinformation? Not without repealing the First Amendment. —

well I don’t mind him expressing an opinion but it should be labled as an opinion as opposed to fact set in stone. I mean if he can say that NIH or some other well respected medical facility backs up his statement then that would be fine. If he says that NIH or some other well respected medical facility disagrees with his belief however his belief is such and such then that is fine. My concern is that this opinion was being presented by both the doctor and the commentators as FACT. I guess the issue becomes what is fact. Nessa — I don’t have issues I have subscriptions www.nessa.info

Response:

Does anyone else listen to NPR? Yesterday driving home from the doctor I heard this doctor Tom B? (don’t remember his last name) who was discussing how horrible Ritalin is and how he believes 7 millon kids are diagnosed with ADHD and how it works opposite on kids than it does on adults. I felt it was most irresponsible and the commentator was agreeing with him. Reminded me of a paid commercial show (like on late night tv the following program is a paid commercial advertisement). does NPR do that? if not is there anyway to deal with this misinformation?

Who said it was misinformation? Would you care to substantiate that?

Response:

I listen to NPR a lot, but I didn’t hear that particular gem.

Response:

go to their web site, and there should be a letter-writing venue there. or you can go to the program-specific area of the site, and contact the producer etc of that NPR program. it was probably Evening Edition, if you you heard it driving home from work. or maybe All Things Considered. NPR is otherwise an exemplary and responsible news venue. no one is better. Does anyone else listen to NPR? Yesterday driving home from the doctor I heard this doctor Tom B? (don’t remember his last name) who was discussing how horrible Ritalin is and how he believes 7 millon kids are diagnosed with ADHD and how it works opposite on kids than it does on adults.

\ - – // oooO ( ) ( ) ) / ( (_

Response:

EPA Chief Not Consulted on US Climate Report

admin — Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Newsgroups: alt.activism, alt.activism.d, alt.activism.student, alt.activism.youth-rights, alt.conspiracy View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format EPA Chief Not Consulted on US Climate Report Via NY Transfer News * All the News That Doesn’t Fit [The half-wit occupying the White House is running a government of total chaos -- "disarray" cannot remotely describe it. Here we are told that the famous US report on global warming issued last week was sent to the UN and then posted on the EPA's website, but that Christine Todd Whitman knew nothing about. Bush claimed he had read it, then it developed he was only "brief" about it (no doubt very briefly "briefed" perhaps by coloring-book summary).] Actually it is a violation of the Tenth Amendment for the federal government to regulate the environment. And if they could, that would be the responsibility of Congress. Wakeup America: the Globalists are turning our country into a Dictatorship, and these masonic judges are helping them. PS. Incidentally, the EPA takes it’s orders from the President.

Response:

Actually it is a violation of the Tenth Amendment for the federal government to regulate the environment. And if they could, that would be the responsibility of Congress.

Yeah!!! How dare the Federal government regulate the quality of air and water! I like my air brown and the water lumpy! This is treason!

Response:

Yeah!!! How dare the Federal government regulate the quality of air and water! I like my air brown and the water lumpy! This is treason!

Idiot! *I* prefer my air lumpy and my water brown, the way God intended. This is heresy! — Robert Sneddon nojay (at) nojay (dot) fsnet (dot) co (dot) uk

Response:

Don’t be afraid: name names, eh? Oh…. you can’t. Sorry.

Response:

EPA Chief Not Consulted on US Climate Report Via NY Transfer News * All the News That Doesn’t Fit [The half-wit occupying the White House is running a government of total chaos -- "disarray" cannot remotely describe it. Here we are told that the famous US report on global warming issued last week was sent to the UN and then posted on the EPA's website, but that Christine Todd Whitman knew nothing about. Bush claimed he had read it, then it developed he was only "brief" about it (no doubt very briefly "briefed" perhaps by coloring-book summary).] EPA chief was left in the dark on US climate report by Tom Doggett WASHINGTON, June 13 (Reuters)–Christine Todd Whitman, the top US environmental regulator, said yesterday she was not told in advance about a controversial Bush administration report that concluded greenhouse gas emissions produced by human activities were the primary cause of global warming. The report caused a stir last week among environmentalists because it appeared to align the administration with scientists who believe vehicle emissions and pollution from power plants and oil refineries have caused global temperatures to rise. The United States is the world’s biggest energy consumer and emissions producer. President George W. Bush dismissed the report as a product of the federal "bureaucracy." Bush said he had read the report, but the White House later said the president was only briefed on the study. The report was quietly posted on the Environmental Protection Agency’s Web site after it was sent to the United Nations. Whitman, the head of the EPA, said she did not read the report in advance and was not even aware of the study until news organizations reported it. "I knew about it when I read it in the paper," she told reporters yesterday following a speech at an energy efficiency conference in Washington. Green groups have long questioned whether Whitman has a say in setting administration environmental policies, or if those decisions are made by White House officials. Her comments on the climate change report raised more doubt. ‘ABSENTEE LANDLORD AT EPA’ "It certainly creates the appearance that she’s an absentee landlord at EPA," said Frank O’Donnell, executive director of the Clean Air Trust. "It’s starting to look like she’s (EPA) administrator in a ceremonial capacity." Whitman said she was briefed on the EPA report after it was published. The report’s conclusions were reviewed by the staff of the EPA, the State Department and other agencies before it was published, Whitman said. "Since nobody saw anything earth-shattering in what the conclusions were … they didn’t think they needed to raise the red flag," she said. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said Wednesday he was out of the country when the report was released and he did not read it in advance, nor has he since been briefed on the study. Energy Department staff helped write the report. Whitman, along with White House officials, have tried to downplay the controversy by citing a speech Bush gave last year when he stated that human activities were a cause of greenhouse gas emissions. However, the administration’s new report went a step further, saying human activities were primarily to blame for global warming and have caused "surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise." Environmentalists seized on the report as a major change in Bush administration policy. In the past, green groups pointed out that the administration had said the science was unclear on the causes of global warning. ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES TO FIGURE IN ELECTIONS With environmental issues likely to figure in November’s congressional elections, a group of Senate Democrats last week demanded that the White House clarify if it stood behind the report or not. Democrats have accused the administration of trying to relax various anti-pollution policies that are costly to industry. Republicans maintain that more voluntary and market-based programs can achieve the same results. The Bush administration has been repeatedly criticized by the European Union for not doing more to reduce carbon dioxide emissions linked to global warming. Green groups have urged the United States to re-sign the international Kyoto treaty that seeks to reduce the world greenhouse gas emissions by setting nation-by-nation targets. The White House rejected the treaty as too expensive for US industry and instead put forward a program encouraging American firms to voluntarily curb heat-trapping emissions. Whitman said the climate change report’s conclusions would not alter administration policy. "We certainly aren’t changing our position on Kyoto," she said. Whitman said she would reiterate the administration’s opposition to the treaty at a UN-sponsored conference on world poverty and environmental issues in Johannesburg, South Africa, later this summer. NY Transfer News Collective * A Service of Blythe Systems Since 1985 – Information for the Rest of Us 339 Lafayette St., New York, NY 10012 nytcov-06.13.02-17:28:44-20999 — http://www.blythe.org

Response:

"DCFS did NOT take custody of the child"

admin — Mon, 31 Dec 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … > In article <24a0591a.0201020840.6267a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > says… > >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … > >> In article <24a0591a.0201012158.34c1a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > >> says… > >> >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … > >> >> In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > >> >> says… > >> >> >HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … > >> >> >> http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… > >> >> >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS > >> >> >> By Sara Bean > >> >> >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] > >> >> >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside > >> >> >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy > >> >> >> Saturday morning. > >> >> >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson > >> >> >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday > >> >> >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No > >> >> >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. > >> >> >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the > >> >> >> manufacture of methamphetamine. > >> >> >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for > >> >> >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. > >> >> >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also > >> >> >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson > >> >> >> County Jail. > >> >> >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a > >> >> >> court appearance. > >> >> >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of > >> >> >> Child and Family Services about the boy. > >> >> >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. > >> >> >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// > >> >> >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. > >> >> >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS > >> >> >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no > >> >> >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume > >> >> >DCFS is somehow in error? > >> >> >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying > >> >> >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by > >> >> >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." > >> >> >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to > >> >> >play to the gallery. > >> >> >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? > >> >> Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope. > >> >I forgot. > >> Hi Lucky! What ‘did’ you forget? > >> >Some here aren’t able to answer even the simpliest question. > >> Lucky, what was the simplest question that you are referring to? The one about > >> you? Or your assumptions? Who are the ’some’ that you are implying? > >> >Forgive my patronizing attitude of expecting more. I meant no harm. > >> I recognized no patronization. Only mere assumtions, that were duly noted and > >> summarily dismissed. Again, you give yourself way to much credit, no harm done. > >> >Good boy. Now go fetch the ball. > >> Do you see a ‘boy’ here? What ‘ball?’ "Fetch," hey, lucky, you ain’t one of > >> those trick dogs from the movie: "Cats and Dogs." Are you? Yes, I believe the > >> ’star’ of the show was named; "Lou." I’m honored! > >> Den. > >tsk tsk, ’sa pity. > Oo-o-oh-e-e, you are such a cute-sie little puppy! Is that all the better you > can do, ooey-gooey, wucky-wooey? What’s the matter? Cat got your tongue, > beagle-boy? Lou-zer? tsk tsk ’sa pity. I like ‘muppet’ doggie! > ///////////////////////////////////////free//////////////////////////////// // > >lucky

He/She/It asks a valid question or two Dennis, and I will ask it again without all the by-play and rhetoric, "we are to assume DCFS is somehow in error" in not taking this child into custody? Or are you "celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying their failure to protect this child" I hope that helps. I realize that Leigh posted the article, but you jumped right on in there. Do you understand her concern in posting this article? Hey Leigh, maybe you can answer Lukcy’s questions. After all, you are the one that posted the article. No slam intended (I hope you can tell that from the text of my post), and none will be forthcoming in reference to any answers you provide. Ron

Response:

In article , Ron says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … >> In article <24a0591a.0201020840.6267a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie >> says… >> >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … >> >> In article <24a0591a.0201012158.34c1a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie >> >> says… >> >> >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … >> >> >> In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie >> >> >> says… >> >> >> >HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … >> >> >> >> http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… >> >> >> >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS >> >> >> >> By Sara Bean >> >> >> >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] >> >> >> >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside >> >> >> >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy >> >> >> >> Saturday morning. >> >> >> >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson >> >> >> >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday >> >> >> >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No >> >> >> >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. >> >> >> >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the >> >> >> >> manufacture of methamphetamine. >> >> >> >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for >> >> >> >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. >> >> >> >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also >> >> >> >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson >> >> >> >> County Jail. >> >> >> >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a >> >> >> >> court appearance. >> >> >> >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of >> >> >> >> Child and Family Services about the boy. >> >> >> >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. >> >> >> >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// >> >> >> >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. >> >> >> >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS >> >> >> >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no >> >> >> >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume >> >> >> >DCFS is somehow in error? >> >> >> >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying >> >> >> >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by >> >> >> >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." >> >> >> >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to >> >> >> >play to the gallery. >> >> >> >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? >> >> >> Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope. >> >> >I forgot. >> >> Hi Lucky! What ‘did’ you forget? >> >> >Some here aren’t able to answer even the simpliest question. >> >> Lucky, what was the simplest question that you are referring to? The one about >> >> you? Or your assumptions? Who are the ’some’ that you are implying? >> >> >Forgive my patronizing attitude of expecting more. I meant no harm. >> >> I recognized no patronization. Only mere assumtions, that were duly noted and >> >> summarily dismissed. Again, you give yourself way to much credit, no harm done. >> >> >Good boy. Now go fetch the ball. >> >> Do you see a ‘boy’ here? What ‘ball?’ "Fetch," hey, lucky, you ain’t one of >> >> those trick dogs from the movie: "Cats and Dogs." Are you? Yes, I believe the >> >> ’star’ of the show was named; "Lou." I’m honored! >> >> Den. >> >tsk tsk, ’sa pity. >> Oo-o-oh-e-e, you are such a cute-sie little puppy! Is that all the better you >> can do, ooey-gooey, wucky-wooey? What’s the matter? Cat got your tongue, >> beagle-boy? Lou-zer? tsk tsk ’sa pity. I like ‘muppet’ doggie! >> ///////////////////////////////////////free//////////////////////////////// // >> >lucky >He/She/It asks a valid question or two Dennis, and I will ask it again >without all the by-play and rhetoric, "we are to assume DCFS is >somehow in error" in not taking this child into custody? Or are you >"celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying their failure >to protect this child"

Hey Ron-You have asked me similiar questions about past articles I have posted. And, the answer I gave you then still remains the same: "I am relaying the article." I don’t feel obligated to have go into personal reasons why. But thanks for asking and feel at liberty to assume what you wish. >I hope that helps. I realize that Leigh posted the article, but you >jumped right on in there. Do you understand her concern in posting >this article?

Leigh (respectfully) is ‘very’ valuable in the many articles, links, sites and references that she does contribute. Either for discussions, purposes of activism, use on other ng’s, research or maybe even finding help with-in the article provided (attornies name, local agency, caselaw, ect.) ‘What-ever’ her reason, it is ‘her’ reason. Niether Leigh nor I are spamming you, are we? It is a ‘free’ country, right? Btw, you ‘realize’ wrong, it was in fact: myself that posted the article. How does that go…"To err is to be human, to forgive devine."…. I hope ‘that’ helps, you. //////////////; )den. >Hey Leigh, maybe you can answer Lukcy’s questions. After all, you are >the one that posted the article. No slam intended (I hope you can >tell that from the text of my post), and none will be forthcoming in >reference to any answers you provide. >Ron

"..and that you may never experience the humility that the power of the American Government has reduced me to, is the wish of him, who, in his native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself." Black Hawk, 1833

Response:

"Dennis netscape.net>" wrote in message news:DSHZ7.5341$cD4.9339@www.newsranger.com… > In article , Ron says… > >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message

… > >> In article <24a0591a.0201020840.6267a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > >> says… > >> >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message

… > >> >> In article <24a0591a.0201012158.34c1a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > >> >> says… > >> >> >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message

… > >> >> >> In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > >> >> >> says… > >> >> >> >HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message

… http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> >> >> >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS > >> >> >> >> By Sara Bean > >> >> >> >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] > >> >> >> >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside > >> >> >> >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy > >> >> >> >> Saturday morning. > >> >> >> >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson > >> >> >> >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday > >> >> >> >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No > >> >> >> >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. > >> >> >> >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the > >> >> >> >> manufacture of methamphetamine. > >> >> >> >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for > >> >> >> >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. > >> >> >> >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also > >> >> >> >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson > >> >> >> >> County Jail. > >> >> >> >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a > >> >> >> >> court appearance. > >> >> >> >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of > >> >> >> >> Child and Family Services about the boy. > >> >> >> >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. > >> >> >> >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// > >> >> >> >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. > >> >> >> >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS > >> >> >> >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no > >> >> >> >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume > >> >> >> >DCFS is somehow in error? > >> >> >> >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying > >> >> >> >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by > >> >> >> >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." > >> >> >> >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to > >> >> >> >play to the gallery. > >> >> >> >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? > >> >> >> Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope. > >> >> >I forgot. > >> >> Hi Lucky! What ‘did’ you forget? > >> >> >Some here aren’t able to answer even the simpliest question. > >> >> Lucky, what was the simplest question that you are referring to? The one about > >> >> you? Or your assumptions? Who are the ’some’ that you are implying? > >> >> >Forgive my patronizing attitude of expecting more. I meant no harm. > >> >> I recognized no patronization. Only mere assumtions, that were duly noted and > >> >> summarily dismissed. Again, you give yourself way to much credit, no harm done. > >> >> >Good boy. Now go fetch the ball. > >> >> Do you see a ‘boy’ here? What ‘ball?’ "Fetch," hey, lucky, you ain’t one of > >> >> those trick dogs from the movie: "Cats and Dogs." Are you? Yes, I believe the > >> >> ’star’ of the show was named; "Lou." I’m honored! > >> >> Den. > >> >tsk tsk, ’sa pity. > >> Oo-o-oh-e-e, you are such a cute-sie little puppy! Is that all the better you > >> can do, ooey-gooey, wucky-wooey? What’s the matter? Cat got your tongue, > >> beagle-boy? Lou-zer? tsk tsk ’sa pity. I like ‘muppet’ doggie!

///////////////////////////////////////free//////////////////////////////// / / – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> >lucky > >He/She/It asks a valid question or two Dennis, and I will ask it again > >without all the by-play and rhetoric, "we are to assume DCFS is > >somehow in error" in not taking this child into custody? Or are you > >"celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying their failure > >to protect this child" > Hey Ron-You have asked me similiar questions about past articles I have posted. > And, the answer I gave you then still remains the same: "I am relaying the > article." I don’t feel obligated to have go into personal reasons why. But > thanks for asking and feel at liberty to assume what you wish.

Ahh, that sure clears things up. Thanks………… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I hope that helps. I realize that Leigh posted the article, but you > >jumped right on in there. Do you understand her concern in posting > >this article? > Leigh (respectfully) is ‘very’ valuable in the many articles, links, sites and > references that she does contribute. Either for discussions, purposes of > activism, use on other ng’s, research or maybe even finding help with-in the > article provided (attornies name, local agency, caselaw, ect.) ‘What-ever’ her > reason, it is ‘her’ reason. Niether Leigh nor I are spamming you, are we? It is > a ‘free’ country, right? Btw, you ‘realize’ wrong, it was in fact: myself that > posted the article. How does that go…"To err is to be human, to forgive > devine."…. I hope ‘that’ helps, you. > //////////////; )den.

Leigh’s value is lost on me, as you might guess, since she is less than informed about the topics we discuss. Add in to that the name calling and sundry abuse to myself and other individuals that post to this news group, and it does make one wonder. But, as to the error, my apologies. I was of the impression that she posted it, and in case you missed it, the question was without malice. Just a question or two. Congratulations for posting it here, but without putting it into context with an explanation of some type it is off topic to both of the news groups I see it going to. Neither foster parents nor CPS seem to have been involved, except in the most peripheral way. Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Hey Leigh, maybe you can answer Lukcy’s questions. After all, you are > >the one that posted the article. No slam intended (I hope you can > >tell that from the text of my post), and none will be forthcoming in > >reference to any answers you provide. > >Ron > "..and that you may never experience the > humility that the power of the American Government > has reduced me to, is the wish of him, who, in his > native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself." > Black Hawk, 1833

Response:

In article <24a0591a.0201020840.6267a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … >> In article <24a0591a.0201012158.34c1a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie >> says… >> >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … >> >> In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie >> >> says… >> >> >HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … >> >> >> http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… >> >> >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS >> >> >> By Sara Bean >> >> >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] >> >> >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside >> >> >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy >> >> >> Saturday morning. >> >> >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson >> >> >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday >> >> >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No >> >> >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. >> >> >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the >> >> >> manufacture of methamphetamine. >> >> >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for >> >> >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. >> >> >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also >> >> >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson >> >> >> County Jail. >> >> >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a >> >> >> court appearance. >> >> >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of >> >> >> Child and Family Services about the boy. >> >> >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. >> >> >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// >> >> >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. >> >> >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS >> >> >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no >> >> >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume >> >> >DCFS is somehow in error? >> >> >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying >> >> >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by >> >> >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." >> >> >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to >> >> >play to the gallery. >> >> >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? >> >> Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope. >> >I forgot. >> Hi Lucky! What ‘did’ you forget? >> >Some here aren’t able to answer even the simpliest question. >> Lucky, what was the simplest question that you are referring to? The one about >> you? Or your assumptions? Who are the ’some’ that you are implying? >> >Forgive my patronizing attitude of expecting more. I meant no harm. >> I recognized no patronization. Only mere assumtions, that were duly noted and >> summarily dismissed. Again, you give yourself way to much credit, no harm done. >> >Good boy. Now go fetch the ball. >> Do you see a ‘boy’ here? What ‘ball?’ "Fetch," hey, lucky, you ain’t one of >> those trick dogs from the movie: "Cats and Dogs." Are you? Yes, I believe the >> ’star’ of the show was named; "Lou." I’m honored! >> Den. >tsk tsk, ’sa pity.

Oo-o-oh-e-e, you are such a cute-sie little puppy! Is that all the better you can do, ooey-gooey, wucky-wooey? What’s the matter? Cat got your tongue, beagle-boy? Lou-zer? tsk tsk ’sa pity. I like ‘muppet’ doggie! ///////////////////////////////////////free//////////////////////////////// // >lucky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … > In article <24a0591a.0201012158.34c1a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > says… > >Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … > >> In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > >> says… > >> >HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … > >> >> http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… > >> >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS > >> >> By Sara Bean > >> >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] > >> >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside > >> >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy > >> >> Saturday morning. > >> >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson > >> >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday > >> >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No > >> >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. > >> >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the > >> >> manufacture of methamphetamine. > >> >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for > >> >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. > >> >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also > >> >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson > >> >> County Jail. > >> >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a > >> >> court appearance. > >> >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of > >> >> Child and Family Services about the boy. > >> >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. > >> >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// > >> >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. > >> >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS > >> >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no > >> >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume > >> >DCFS is somehow in error? > >> >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying > >> >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by > >> >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." > >> >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to > >> >play to the gallery. > >> >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? > >> Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope. > >I forgot. > Hi Lucky! What ‘did’ you forget? > >Some here aren’t able to answer even the simpliest question. > Lucky, what was the simplest question that you are referring to? The one about > you? Or your assumptions? Who are the ’some’ that you are implying? > >Forgive my patronizing attitude of expecting more. I meant no harm. > I recognized no patronization. Only mere assumtions, that were duly noted and > summarily dismissed. Again, you give yourself way to much credit, no harm done. > >Good boy. Now go fetch the ball. > Do you see a ‘boy’ here? What ‘ball?’ "Fetch," hey, lucky, you ain’t one of > those trick dogs from the movie: "Cats and Dogs." Are you? Yes, I believe the > ’star’ of the show was named; "Lou." I’m honored! > Den.

tsk tsk, ’sa pity. lucky

Response:

In article <24a0591a.0201012158.34c1a…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … >> In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie >> says… >> >HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … >> >> http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… >> >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS >> >> By Sara Bean >> >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] >> >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside >> >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy >> >> Saturday morning. >> >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson >> >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday >> >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No >> >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. >> >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the >> >> manufacture of methamphetamine. >> >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for >> >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. >> >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also >> >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson >> >> County Jail. >> >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a >> >> court appearance. >> >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of >> >> Child and Family Services about the boy. >> >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. >> >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// >> >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. >> >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS >> >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no >> >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume >> >DCFS is somehow in error? >> >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying >> >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by >> >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." >> >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to >> >play to the gallery. >> >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? >> Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope. >I forgot.

Hi Lucky! What ‘did’ you forget? >Some here aren’t able to answer even the simpliest question.

Lucky, what was the simplest question that you are referring to? The one about you? Or your assumptions? Who are the ’some’ that you are implying? >Forgive my patronizing attitude of expecting more. I meant no harm.

I recognized no patronization. Only mere assumtions, that were duly noted and summarily dismissed. Again, you give yourself way to much credit, no harm done. >Good boy. Now go fetch the ball.

Do you see a ‘boy’ here? What ‘ball?’ "Fetch," hey, lucky, you ain’t one of those trick dogs from the movie: "Cats and Dogs." Are you? Yes, I believe the ’star’ of the show was named; "Lou." I’m honored! Den. /////////////////////////////////////////////// >> Den. >lucky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dennisnetscape.net> wrote in message … > In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie > says… > >HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … > >> http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… > >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS > >> By Sara Bean > >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] > >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside > >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy > >> Saturday morning. > >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson > >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday > >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No > >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. > >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the > >> manufacture of methamphetamine. > >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for > >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. > >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also > >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson > >> County Jail. > >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a > >> court appearance. > >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of > >> Child and Family Services about the boy. > >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. > >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// > >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. > >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS > >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no > >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume > >DCFS is somehow in error? > >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying > >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by > >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." > >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to > >play to the gallery. > >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? > Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope.

I forgot. Some here aren’t able to answer even the simpliest question. Forgive my patronizing attitude of expecting more. I meant no harm. Good boy. Now go fetch the ball. > Den.

lucky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … > http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… > BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS > By Sara Bean > [Sat Dec 29 2001] > WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside > a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy > Saturday morning. > The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson > County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday > morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No > further information was available about the boy’s condition. > Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the > manufacture of methamphetamine. > The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for > production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. > A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also > arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson > County Jail. > Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a > court appearance. > Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of > Child and Family Services about the boy. > DCFS did not take custody of the child. > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////

About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume DCFS is somehow in error? Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to play to the gallery. You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit? lucky

Response:

In article <24a0591a.0201011850.20daf…@posting.google.com>, Lucky Louie says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->HowdoUsl…@nite.com wrote in message … >> http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… >> BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS >> By Sara Bean >> [Sat Dec 29 2001] >> WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside >> a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy >> Saturday morning. >> The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson >> County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday >> morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No >> further information was available about the boy’s condition. >> Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the >> manufacture of methamphetamine. >> The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for >> production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. >> A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also >> arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson >> County Jail. >> Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a >> court appearance. >> Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of >> Child and Family Services about the boy. >> DCFS did not take custody of the child. >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////// >About as disengenous a post as I’ve seen in some time. >Let me see now, if the child had safe relatives available and DCFS >took custody you’d be screaming I take it? But, given that no >disposition of the child is mentioned in the article, we are to assume >DCFS is somehow in error? >Which is it, celebrating the non-interference of DCFS, or decrying >their failure to protect this child…which of course, isn’t proven by >the statement, "DCFS did not take custody of the child." >Possibly they didn’t need to. But let’s ignore that for a chance to >play to the gallery. >You take on more trollish qualities the more you post. Happy I bit?

Quite presumptuous of you, louie. You give yourself enough credit, I hope. Den. >lucky

Response:

http://www.southernillinoisan.com/rednews/2001/12/30/build/top/TOP003… BOY, 10, OVERCOME BY METH CHEMICALS By Sara Bean [Sat Dec 29 2001] WILLIAMSON COUNTY — Fumes from methamphetamine-producing chemicals inside a car resulted in the hospitalization of a 10-year-old Mount Vernon boy Saturday morning. The unidentified youth was a passenger in a vehicle stopped by Williamson County sheriff’s deputies on Illinois 13, east of Crab Orchard Saturday morning. The boy was taken to Marion Memorial Hospital for treatment. No further information was available about the boy’s condition. Chemicals such as anhydrous ammonia and ether commonly are used in the manufacture of methamphetamine. The boy’s mother, Cindy Hails, 40, of Mount Vernon, was arrested for production of methamphetamine and was taken to the Williamson County Jail. A second woman, Roberta K. Riddle, 34, also of Mount Vernon, was also arrested for production of methamphetamine and taken to the Williamson County Jail. Both women remain in jail without bond on numerous drug charges awaiting a court appearance. Williamson County sheriff’s deputies contacted the Illinois Department of Child and Family Services about the boy. DCFS did not take custody of the child. //////////////////////////////////////////////////// — "..and that you may never experience the humility that the power of the American Government has reduced me to, is the wish of him, who, in his native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself." Black Hawk, 1833

Response:

Gay Youth Group Bans AIDS Dissidents

admin — Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

snip… Dave is sort of an experiement with the mindy-body connection. Can the placebo effect of really-truely believing that AIDS is a conspiracy hold back the onset of the disease? Well all we have is one test subject but it will be interesting to see the outcome anyway.

Actually, Pasquarelli and Bellefountaine are two current examples. There have been a variety of others. Mostly, unfortunately, they’re dead. George M. Carter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "LGBTQ youth have a right to hear both side of the AIDS story," commented ACT UP’s Pasquarelli who was diagnosed HIV antibody positive six years ago. "There is a growing awareness that AIDS is a tragic medical mistake that feeds off of society’s sex negativity and homophobia by demonizing and exploiting all Queers, especially gay youth." AIDS is a horrible disease syndrome which eventually kills people regardless of their sexual orientation, age, gender or other criteria if the person is unfortunate enough to get it. Young people have the right to hear the facts from people who actually know them. There are no (or few) dissidents amongst people who work with HIV positive people, nor amongst the North American gay community who lost so many loved ones to this awful illness. Moira, the Faerie Godmother

The problem with your argument is that Dave is POZ. Can’t get much closer to working with HIV positive people than tying your own shoes around your own HIV(+) feet in the morning. Dave also is gay and lives in San Fransisco, CA. You surely can’t mean to say that he has not seen anyone with AIDS. Dave is sort of an experiement with the mindy-body connection. Can the placebo effect of really-truely believing that AIDS is a conspiracy hold back the onset of the disease? Well all we have is one test subject but it will be interesting to see the outcome anyway.

Response:

That is the really sad and sick part of ACT-UP San Francisco they claim to be gay and are so deeply in denial that they will stoop to any level and spread out right lies to uphold what they believe to be there fundamental right to engage in unsafe sexual practices. They vilify anyone who disagrees with them and have been legally charged with threatening bodily harm to the family and loved ones of there oppositions leadership in San Francisco. Gary Stein – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Moira, the Faerie Godmother

Response:

"LGBTQ youth have a right to hear both side of the AIDS story," commented ACT UP’s Pasquarelli who was diagnosed HIV antibody positive six years ago. "There is a growing awareness that AIDS is a tragic medical mistake that feeds off of society’s sex negativity and homophobia by demonizing and exploiting all Queers, especially gay youth."

AIDS is a horrible disease syndrome which eventually kills people regardless of their sexual orientation, age, gender or other criteria if the person is unfortunate enough to get it. Young people have the right to hear the facts from people who actually know them. There are no (or few) dissidents amongst people who work with HIV positive people, nor amongst the North American gay community who lost so many loved ones to this awful illness. Moira, the Faerie Godmother

Response:

Conference organizers from LYRIC (Lavender Youth Recreation and Information Center) offered no explanation in denying ACT UP [SF] an opportunity to interact with young members of their own community. The activists, who have been a popular participant

ERROR: Suspension of disbelief limit exceeded. Increase size of credulity buffer and run program again. — David Canzi

Response:

Yay! The kids are getting smarter! George M. Carter

Response:

UP SF) writes: Activists called LYRIC’s refusal to allow ACT UP the ability to participate in the conference an "indefensible act of censorship that should offend all Queers committed to truth and the free exchange of ideas."

This is not about censorship, it’s about an infectious disease whose transmission your belief structure facilitates. What is the question? Gertrude Stein’s last words No one mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing. Alan Watts On Display in the UK http://www.web-gallery.co.uk

Response:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: David Pasquarelli: (415) 637-4666 Todd Swindell: (415) 864-6686 Gay Youth Group Bans ACT UP From Conference —– Radical Queer activists denied booth space, workshop time, and program advertisement three days before "Young, Loud ‘n Proud" event SAN FRANCISCO — Days before their scheduled participation in a leadership conference for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning youth, members of the direct action radical Queer group ACT UP (AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power) were informed they had been denied booth space, workshop time and a program advertisement in the event. Conference organizers from LYRIC (Lavender Youth Recreation and Information Center) offered no explanation in denying ACT UP an opportunity to interact with young members of their own community. The activists, who have been a popular participant in the annual "Young, Loud ‘n Proud" (YLP) event for three years, submitted all paperwork and paid $200.00 in fees to LYRIC in a timely manner for this year’s conference. Gay activist David Pasquarelli was informed via voicemail message on July 10th — without any explanation and only after a half-dozen unreturned phone calls to confirm ACT UP’s participation — of LYRIC’s decision to ban the radical AIDS organization from the conference. LYRIC bills the YLP Conference as "uniting youth in celebration of our growing community to help advance the struggle for queer justice." However, according to ACT UP activists, LYRIC has betrayed young lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders by denying them the opportunity to receive and evaluate alternative information that questions the cause and treatment of AIDS. Activists called LYRIC’s refusal to allow ACT UP the ability to participate in the conference an "indefensible act of censorship that should offend all Queers committed to truth and the free exchange of ideas." "LGBTQ youth have a right to hear both side of the AIDS story," commented ACT UP’s Pasquarelli who was diagnosed HIV antibody positive six years ago. "There is a growing awareness that AIDS is a tragic medical mistake that feeds off of society’s sex negativity and homophobia by demonizing and exploiting all Queers, especially gay youth." Despite being denied a conference workshop and advertising space in the program, ACT UP members set up a table outside the entrance of the two-day conference to protest LYRIC’s decision to censor their information. As in past years, ACT UP members distributed free Queer Nation stickers, T-shirts, and AIDS dissident information packets containing the book "What If Everything You Thought You Knew About AIDS Was Wrong?" to curious participants. "Sadly it appears that LYRIC, with corporate and city funding sources closely tied to the AIDS industry, feels it is acceptable to disrespect LGBTQ youth by banning all information that jeopardizes their ability to raise money," commented gay ACT UP activist Todd Swindell. "It’s this type of authoritarian ignorance and corruption — not alternative AIDS information — that is the true enemy of Queers." —– (Program advertisement banned by LYRIC) Why Trust What The U.S. Government Says About HIV? —– Avoid HIV Tests and Anti-Gay AIDS Experiments. "South African Deputy President Jacob Zuma expanded on Mbeki’s remarks this week, singling out the group ACT UP San Francisco for praise and comparing its belief that HIV is harmless to Galileo’s 17th-Century crusade to prove that the Earth rotates around the sun." — New York Newsday, April 23, 2000 Since 1984, gay culture has become colonized by a cadre of hypocritical moralists who pledge allegiance to HIV. Community dialogue to determine the role of HIV — sole cause of AIDS, possible cofactor, harmless product of immune system activation, or dead end lab mistake — was shut down in a climate of early AIDS fear. Today an army of well-funded AIDS groups is committed to stopping all objective community discourse and perpetuating the damaging notion that Gay=AIDS=Death. Before you believe their scare stories it’s important to ask: Why trust those who have made careers out of cashing in on a crisis? Don’t Buy The HIV Lie! There is no proof that HIV causes AIDS or any other illness. The belief that AIDS is caused by a virus is an unproven hypothesis, not a verified fact. Since the 1984 government announcement of a viral cause for symptoms of immune suppression, more than 100,000 papers have been published on HIV. Not one of these papers has been able to effectively prove that HIV can cause AIDS. A good hypothesis is defined by its ability to solve problems, make accurate predictions, and produce results. The HIV hypothesis has failed to meet any of these criteria. ACT UP San Francisco has been on the forefront of exposing AIDS Industry lies, challenging researchers and CEOs, and demanding financial accountability. To date the AIDS Industry has nothing but failure to point to. AZT, ddI, ddC, d4T, 3TC, IL2, Saquinavir, Norvir, Viracept, Sustiva, Crixivan, and other profitable pills are all highly toxic, dangerous products being pushed into the gay community. Strokes, muscle wasting, anemia, physical deformities, dementia, organ failure and death are only some of the side effects of these poisons. Thousands of gay men in the late 1980s and early 1990s died from AZT poisoning. Now health officials are broadening the AIDS drug market by targeting young gay men with Post-Exposure Prophylaxis (PEP) programs where these poisonous but profitable pills are promoted as the latest AIDS prevention breakthrough. AIDS Research Kills Queers. After twenty years AIDS remains a disease category of the marginalized. Gay men, Blacks, and Latinos continue to be targeted as "high risk" groups by federally funded AIDS researchers. This fact alone proves that AIDS is not a viral epidemic. Viral epidemics affect populations without regard to class, race, or sexual preference. AIDS is clearly a sociological — not medical — phenomenon. Still, the lucrative research industry continues to exploit the gay community in their relentless search for subjects to test dangerous AIDS pills, microbicides, and vaccines. It’s time to admit it — HIV is being used as an anti-gay weapon to drum up funding for an elite few. But no lie can live forever. Value your body and your intrinsic worth as a young gay or lesbian human being — don’t sacrifice yourself to mad scientists that make a living harming homosexuals. A growing movement is underway to reevaluate AIDS, question the notion of a viral cause, and challenge the discriminatory practice of targeting Queers with flawed HIV antibody tests. We invite you to investigate the matter yourself by offering a free copy of the groundbreaking book "What If Everything You Thought You Knew About AIDS Was Wrong?" by AIDS survivor Christine Maggiore. Fight the AID$ Fraud! ACT UP San Francisco is the AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power — a militant, direct action organization committed to ending the AIDS fraud. General body meetings are held every Monday night at 7:30 p.m. at 1884 Market Street and our medical marijuana dispensary is open 12:00 to 7:00 p.m. Tuesday through Sunday. Get involved. Join ACT UP! End the antigay abuse of AIDS. —– (Conference workshop banned by LYRIC) Workshop Title: Anti-Gay AIDS and Sexual Scapegoating Presenters: David Pasquarelli and Todd Swindell Presenter Biographies: David and Todd are radical Queers and outspoken direct action activists from the AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power. They are community organizers that have dedicated their lives to gay and lesbian liberation and numerous other political issues including environmentalism, anti-golbalization and animal rights. Both presenters live lives free from AIDS fear. Workshop Program Description: AIDS Industry promotion of fear and the politics of disease increasingly relies on homophobic stereotypes and exploits America’s anti-gay prejudices. Find out about the danger to Queer self-esteem and sexual liberation in AIDS Inc.’s pursuit of research subjects and endless funding. This is the next wave of Queer activism! ===== ACT UP San Francisco 1884 Market Street * San Francisco, CA 94102 Phone: (415) 864-6686 * Fax: (415) 864-6687 * www.actupsf.com

Response:

The U.N., Jews, Racism, and the First Amendment

admin — Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Dear Saabira & Medium Wave, I think it would be far more constructive and useful to continue this thread among ourselves, as I think we have more to learn from each other than trying to teach something to a guy who is not prepared to learn about the subject and in fact is obviously WILLINGLY ignorant – I mean read back some of the things in the thread and you can’t believe the guy… About religion: Jewish SHOULD be a religion, and they CLAIM they are a race, but, I disagree. That is what makes them RACIST. In fact, in my book, there is only one race, the human race. But there are nations. There is nothing wrong with nations, it is natural, like tribes are groups of families, nations are groups of tribes (or rather should be – not so anymore in many parts of the world but I digress off topic). Further, what is very funny, is their (the Zionists) constant use of the word Anti-Semitism – hey, semites are the people in a certain area which are actually including Africans and Arabs but not Europeans? These ‘jews’ are mostly East Europeans. The Jews (original) in Ethiopia and Arab countries have little in common with them. Yes, there is also much evidence of collaboration between the Zionists and Hitler… so looking forward to more on the topic from you folks! Sorry Chu-Chu but I don’t have anything to say 2u matey! As this post is in numerous newsgroups and may cause unhappiness to some (?) FYI I am replying and only perusing the posting in alt.activism. I have no access to the other news groups. If Sabira and MW like to continue and everyone is in the same alt.activism, maybe we should keep it there? alt.politics seems fine, but youth-rights seems off topic? P.S: Re: The U.N., Jews, Racism, and the First Amendment U.N.: Staffed mostly by Jews – after all it is located in Jew York? Jews: no offence – we are brothers in belief in the One God – but Zionists: to the sharks Racism: Zionism=Racism and was formally declared so by the General Assembly (harder to manipulate) First Amendment: Sorry, not sure what it is having never businessed with USAmerica, but believe I am supposed to ‘take it’?

Response:

You’re quite a character Che’Gu Maru. For a person I have never met, or carried on a conversation with, you seem to know my every thought. That’s quite a feat! Have you always been such a strong advocate of prejudice? Do you deny that you are indeed prejudice? Or do you claim to have psychic powers? Which is it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a counter-challenge for you. Tell us just how many Jews you have personally interacted with in your life (as well as blacks, American natives, and Hispanics while you are at it.) I’ve grown up with Jews. I’ve worked and lived with Hispanics, African-Americans, and Jews. (But, admittedly, not American natives) I know from my personal experience of nearly 58 years that most generalizations about all of these people are false, that each individual is precisely that — an individual who should rightly be judged on his own merits and actions. I know from my own personal experience that so-called "Jewish" or "Zionist" conspiracies are a myth with no more substance than the Tooth Fairy. Now you can argue all you want based upon your reading of fascist and racist literature or the fantasies of your own mind — but I know they are false. It is as simple as that. Oh, one last note. When I was in the army about a century or so ago (feels like the Punic Wars to me now), I would rather have had an honest Jew, Black, Hispanic, or any other loyal American guarding my back than a racist who despises his own American heritage and his Constitution.

Response:

Hi there,

[snip] I have a counter-challenge for you. Tell us just how many Jews you have personally interacted with in your life (as well as blacks, American

natives, and Hispanics while you are at it.)

Nice to meet you…. My name is Saabirah and I’m Muslim. I’ve spent a while living with Jews, Muslims and Christians in Israel/Palestine…. however, I am American. I’ve "interacted" with groups of various types…. Lived in Boston which has a very large Hispanic community and now I live among and most of my friends are African American (I can’t stand being called "caucasian"!). I’ve grown up with Jews. I’ve worked and lived with Hispanics, African-Americans, and Jews. (But, admittedly, not American natives) I know from my personal experience of nearly 58 years that most generalizations about all of these people are false, that each individual is precisely that — an

individual who should rightly be judged on his own merits and actions.

Absolutely. When we make generalizations based upon cultural heritage we not only disregard the human dignity of all people but we show ourselves to be quite bigotted. I know from my own personal experience that so-called "Jewish" or "Zionist" conspiracies are a myth with no more substance than the Tooth Fairy.

Baloney! Have you ever lived in Israel? Now…. there is a hotbed of Zionism. There are actually communities of Jews who will not be associated with Zionists because they hate the whole idea. Would you call ethnic cleansing a myth? That’s what was proposed in Israel… Haifa was targetted as the jumping off place. Now you can argue all you want based upon your reading of fascist and racist literature or the fantasies of your own mind — but I know they are false. It is as simple as that.

I really don’t know how this thread began… but, one thing I can tell you… Zionism and the radical ideas of Zionist Jews…. tons of American Jews who hold dual citizenship… has nothing to do with any "tooth fairy" mindset. Oh, one last note. When I was in the army about a century or so ago (feels like the Punic Wars to me now), I would rather have had an honest

Jew, Black, Hispanic, or any other loyal American guarding my back than a racist who despises his own American heritage and his Constitution.

What about a Muslim?? — Saabirah Not everything that is faced can be changed But, nothing can be changed until it is faced. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You’re right. The real topic isn’t Jews. The real topic is to stand opposed to the promotion of irrational hatred based upon lies targeting ANY American citizen. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really – it is a waste of time to discuss jews… there are more important problems…. jews make up how many of the worlds 5 billion people? 6 million? I have nothing against juice, I love orange juice, pinapple juice, mango juice…

Response:

Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is? I have never seen Lord Haw Haw advocate censorship of any group’s views, though he deplores the Jewish death grip on the channels of public discourse in the US. What’s the difference between inciting violence towards an ethnic group and trying to shut them up? (And before you claim Haw-Haw hasn’t directly solicited violence towards Jews and minorities, I realize that.

Jews are only a slight minority in the US compared to Muslims who outnumber Jews today. However, I will say that Jews are very effective in inciting violence toward the Arab people in Palestine as well as manipulating the US to achieve their own ends. [snip] Your selective blindness notwithstanding, Jews are the ONLY notable source of attacks on the First Amendment’s protection of free POLITICAL speech.

What are you talking about here? Jews do not cherish their freedom of free Political speech? Come on… get real! Am I reading you right? My goodness! The political lobby of Jews in US government is almost over-powering… the media, politics… almost every sphere of American life is profoundly affected by Jewish freedom of speech. I return the ball to you. Prove it. I think not. Last time I "proved" something to you, you disappeared. You ducked my response. It was a waste of my time.

I won’t go away…. Prove it to me. Moreover, prove that it is the fact that the people you may cite are Jews which is the cause of their behavior and not (for example) urban dwellers, educated, liberal arts scholars, and so on. But know that just because someone has what you think of as a Jewish name doesn’t mean that person is Jewish; just this week a lady named Cohen was buried with Catholic rites (because she was Catholic, of course). A person can be a Jew and a Catholic.

Sorry MW. "Jewish" is not only a religion…. in fact, "Jewish" is more a nationality than a religion. Go to Jerusalem and ask any Israeli his/her "nationality"…. Goodness! There are no Israelis in Israel… they are all "Jews"….. btw….. Over 50% of Israelis (Jews) are atheists. [snip] Once again a Nazi demonstrates that when he talks about freedom, he means freedom for himself and chains for everyone else. Once again you demonstrate that you apply a double standard: one standard for Jews and another standard for other racists. I have yet to have come across any American Jew speaking as a Jew against any other ethnic or cultural group, other than those which are attempting to incite violence against innocent

people. Ummmm… and who might "those people" be? It appears to me that Zionists incite quite a bit of violence themselves…. and persecution…. double standards… superiority complex…. It sounds like you have limited experience with Jews.

I don’t. But any decent person would speak out against such vicious slimeballs, so their having been Jewish is incidental. (And don’t side-step about Israel and the Arabs. This discussion is about the Constitution of the United States, so any reference to a foreign nation is irrelevant.)

Excuse me!! When billions of tax dollars every year go to support the State of Palestine…. When Middle Eastern affairs are manipulated to the advantage of the State of Israel…. while Israel is allowed to perpetrate violence against Palestinians without a word from the US… and Arab/Muslim countries are bombed I cannot see how you can say that international affairs do not belong in this discussion. Historically, it was the Nazis — racists like yourself —

Hold on there…. "Nazi" is a catch phrase which is used so often by Jews that it makes me sick! Have you seen the Holocaust memorials all over the US?? Who is commemorated at those memorials?? ONLY Jews! Yes…. 6 million Jews were slaughted in the Holocaust of WWII… However, another 2 million people died… Christians, gypsies, homosexuals, the physically "imperfect"…. etc., etc. 1/4 of all who died in the Holocaust of WWII were NOT Jews. Why do we "remember the Holocaust" and only remember Jews?? No, Che — YOU are the racist. I am an anti-racist. who were the book burners. It was the anti-Semitic Marxists like Stalin who censored the works of Soviet writers.

What is this? Marxists were only anti-Semitic? Marxists were anti-anything except for Marxism for goodness sakes. This constant bandying about of the phrases "Nazi" and "anti-Semitic" makes me sick…. Are Jews crybabies?? Let’s call a spade a spade. Bigots are bigots no matter what their particular nationality/religion/political persuation may be. Not all bigots and racists are Nazi’s. What about Zionists who just dream of displacing the indiginous people of Palestine from their homeland? Is that racist? It was the Christians during the middle ages who declared works contrary to their beliefs heresy and then burned the authors at the stake if they failed to recant. It was never the Jews. It is NOW the Jews. All manner of things cannot be said in public in this day and age. The Jews, who control the media, are the present equivalent of book burners.

THANK YOU!!!!!! All you are trying to do is to blame your victims Say what?

When will Jews STOP PLAYING THE VICTIM GAME??? You use "Holocaust Guilt" to manipulate and achieve your own ends. You live in the US, enjoy your wealth and comfort yet cause the suffering of the Arab people in Palestine. Hypocrite! for your own sins. Say what?

Jews may have been victims of Adolph Hitler. imho…. the Jewish people who have become Zionists prove that they have learned the lesson that Hitler taught very well…. "The abused becomes the abuser." Nice try, but most Americans are far too smart (and too decent) to swallow such rubbish. No, most Americans are too stupid or preoccupied to recognize the truth.

Thank you…. or, I might add that Americans are fed so much propaganda by the media which is controlled by Jews that they do not know the truth and they are too lazy to search out the "truth". Saabirah

Response:

Really – it is a waste of time to discuss jews… there are more important problems…. jews make up how many of the worlds 5 billion people? 6 million? I have nothing against juice, I love orange juice, pinapple juice, mango juice… — WWW.MATHABA.NET Your Antidote to the New World Order!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmm……. it seems that you don’t have a clue about ZIONISM. Why is it you are so upset when someone points out a fact that the LEADING ADVOCATES against freedom of speech are the same ones who control the media and the UN – Zionists. But that is simply not true. The leading newspapers are still controlled by the Luce and Hearst families, hardly Jewish let alone Zionist. You are asserting things which simply are factually false, and doing so in such a bald-faced way that you expect people to swallow it whole. Wasn’t it Gobbels who developed the doctrine of the big lie? And isn’t this an exact application of that same technique?

Response:

Hmmm……. it seems that you don’t have a clue about ZIONISM. Why is it you are so upset when someone points out a fact that the LEADING ADVOCATES against freedom of speech are the same ones who control the media and the UN – Zionists. But that is simply not true. The leading newspapers are still controlled by the Luce and Hearst families, hardly Jewish let alone Zionist.

Utter bullshit, Che. Let’s look at the nation’s three most prestigious and influential newspapers: the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. Taken from http://www.natvan.com/who-rules-america/ These three, dominating America’s financial and political capitals, are the newspapers which set the trends and the guidelines for nearly all the others. They are the ones that decide what is news and what isn’t, at the national and international levels. They originate the news; the others merely copy it. And all three newspapers are in Jewish hands. The New York Times is the unofficial social, fashion, entertainment, political, and cultural guide of the nation. It tells America’s "smart set" which books to buy and which films to see; which opinions are in style at the moment; which politicians, educators, spiritual leaders, artists, and businessmen are the real comers. And for a few decades in the last century it was a genuinely American newspaper. The New York Times was founded in 1851 by two Gentiles, Henry J. Raymond and George Jones. After their deaths, it was purchased in 1896 from Jones’s estate by a wealthy Jewish publisher, Adolph Ochs. His great-great-grandson, Arthur Sulzberger, Jr., is the paper’s current publisher and the chairman of the New York Times Co. The executive editor is Joseph Lelyveld, also a Jew (he is a rabbi’s son). The Sulzberger family also owns, through the New York Times Co., 33 other newspapers, including the Boston Globe, purchased in June 1993 for $1.1 billion; twelve magazines, including McCall’s and Family Circle with circulations of more than 5 million each; seven radio and TV broadcasting stations; a cable-TV system; and three book publishing companies. The New York Times News Service transmits news stories, features, and photographs from the New York Times by wire to 506 other newspapers, news agencies, and magazines. Of similar national importance is the Washington Post, which, by establishing its "leaks" throughout government agencies in Washington, has an inside track on news involving the Federal government. The Washington Post, like the New York Times, had a non-Jewish origin. It was established in 1877 by Stilson Hutchins, purchased from him in 1905 by John R. McLean, and later inherited by Edward B. McLean. In June 1933, however, at the height of the Great Depression, the newspaper was forced into bankruptcy. It was purchased at a bankruptcy auction by Eugene Meyer, a Jewish financier and former partner of the infamous Bernard Baruch, industry czar in America during the First World War. The Washington Post is now run by Katherine Meyer Graham, Eugene Meyer’s daughter. She is the principal stockholder and the board chairman of the Washington Post Co. In 1979 she appointed her son Donald publisher of the paper. He now also holds the posts of president and CEO of the Washington Post Co. The Washington Post Co. has a number of other media holdings in newspapers, television, and magazines, most notably the nation’s number-two weekly newsmagazine, Newsweek. In a joint venture with the New York Times, the Post publishes the International Herald Tribune, the most widely distributed English language daily in the world. The Wall Street Journal, which sells 1.8 million copies each weekday, is the nation’s largest-circulation daily newspaper. It is owned by Dow Jones & Company, Inc, a New York corporation which also publishes 24 other daily newspapers and the weekly financial tabloid Barron’s, among other things. The chairman and CEO of Dow Jones is Peter R. Kann, who is a Jew. Kann also holds the posts of chairman and publisher of the Wall Street Journal. Most of New York’s other major newspapers are in no better hands than the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. In January 1993 the New York Daily News was bought from the estate of the late Jewish media mogul Robert Maxwell (born Ludvik Hoch) by Jewish real-estate developer Mortimer B. Zuckerman. The Village Voice is the personal property of Leonard Stern, the billionaire Jewish owner of the Hartz Mountain pet supply firm. And, as mentioned above, the New York Post is owned by News Corporation under the Jew Peter Chernin. The days when most cities and even towns had several independently owned newspapers published by local people with close ties to the community are gone. Today most "local" newspapers are owned by a rather small number of large companies controlled by executives who live and work hundreds or even thousands of miles away. The fact is that only about 25 per cent of the country’s 1,500 papers are independently owned; the rest belong to multi-newspaper chains. Only 100 of the total number have circulations of more than 100,000. Only a handful are large enough to maintain independent reporting staffs outside their own communities; the rest must depend on these few for all of their national and international news. In only 50 cities in America are there more than one daily newspaper, and competition is frequently nominal even among them, as between morning and afternoon editions under the same ownership. Examples of this are the Huntsville, Alabama, morning News and afternoon Times; the Birmingham, Alabama, morning Post Herald and afternoon News; the Mobile, Alabama, morning Register and afternoon Press; the Springfield, Massachusetts, morning Union, afternoon News, and Sunday-only Republican; the Syracuse, New York, morning Post-Standard and afternoon Herald-Journal — all owned by the Jewish Newhouse brothers through their holding company, Advance Publications. The Newhouse media empire provides an example of more than the lack of real competition among America’s daily newspapers: it also illustrates the insatiable appetite Jews have shown for all the organs of opinion control on which they could fasten their grip. The Newhouses own 26 daily newspapers, including several large and important ones, such as the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Newark Star-Ledger, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune; Newhouse Broadcasting, consisting of 12 television broadcasting stations and 87 cable-TV systems, including some of the country’s largest cable networks; the Sunday supplement Parade, with a circulation of more than 22 million copies per week; some two dozen major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue, Mademoiselle, Glamour, Vanity Fair, Bride’s, Gentlemen’s Quarterly, Self, House & Garden, and all the other magazines of the wholly owned Conde Nast group. This Jewish media empire was founded by the late Samuel Newhouse, an immigrant from Russia. When he died in 1979 at the age of 84, he bequeathed media holdings worth an estimated $1.3 billion to his two sons, Samuel and Donald. With a number of further acquisitions, the net worth of Advance Publications has grown to more than $8 billion today.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is? I have never seen Lord Haw Haw advocate censorship of any group’s views, though he deplores the Jewish death grip on the channels of public discourse in the US. What’s the difference between inciting violence towards an ethnic group and trying to shut them up? (And before you claim Haw-Haw hasn’t directly solicited violence towards Jews and minorities, I realize that. Jews are only a slight minority in the US compared to Muslims who outnumber Jews today. However, I will say that Jews are very effective in inciting violence toward the Arab people in Palestine as well as manipulating the US to achieve their own ends. [snip] Your selective blindness notwithstanding, Jews are the ONLY notable source of attacks on the First Amendment’s protection of free POLITICAL speech. What are you talking about here? Jews do not cherish their freedom of free Political speech?

No. That’s not it. It’s that Jews do not believe everyone else should have the same freedom. Come on… get real! Am I reading you right?

No, you’re not. My goodness! The political lobby of Jews in US government is almost over-powering… the media, politics… almost every sphere of American life is profoundly affected by Jewish freedom of speech. I return the ball to you. Prove it. I think not. Last time I "proved" something to you, you disappeared. You ducked my response. It was a waste of my time. I won’t go away…. Prove it to me.

I don’t think we disagree. Moreover, prove that it is the fact that the people you may cite are Jews which is the cause of their behavior and not (for example) urban dwellers, educated, liberal arts scholars, and so on. But know that just because someone has what you think of as a Jewish name doesn’t mean that person is Jewish; just this week a lady named Cohen was buried with Catholic rites (because she was Catholic, of course). A person can be a Jew and a Catholic. Sorry MW. "Jewish" is not only a religion…. in fact, "Jewish" is more a nationality than a religion.

I agree. That’s my point. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Go to Jerusalem and ask any Israeli his/her "nationality"…. Goodness! There are no Israelis in Israel… they are all "Jews"….. btw….. Over 50% of Israelis (Jews) are atheists. [snip] Once again a Nazi demonstrates that when he talks about freedom, he means freedom for himself and chains for everyone else. Once again you demonstrate that you apply a double standard: one standard for Jews and another standard for other racists. I have yet to have come across any American Jew speaking as a Jew against any other ethnic or cultural group, other than those which are attempting to incite violence against innocent people. Ummmm… and who might "those people" be? It appears to me that Zionists incite quite a bit of violence themselves…. and persecution…. double standards… superiority complex…. It sounds like you have limited experience with Jews. I don’t. But any decent person would speak out against such vicious slimeballs, so their having been Jewish is incidental. (And don’t side-step about Israel and the Arabs. This discussion is about the Constitution of the United States, so any reference to a foreign nation is irrelevant.) Excuse me!! When billions of tax dollars every year go to support the State of Palestine…. When Middle Eastern affairs are manipulated to the advantage of the State of Israel…. while Israel is allowed to perpetrate violence against Palestinians without a word from the US… and Arab/Muslim countries are bombed I cannot see how you can say that international affairs do not belong in this discussion.

To clarify, it was not I who said that. It was a prior poster. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Historically, it was the Nazis — racists like yourself — Hold on there…. "Nazi" is a catch phrase which is used so often by Jews that it makes me sick! Have you seen the Holocaust memorials all over the US?? Who is commemorated at those memorials?? ONLY Jews! Yes…. 6 million Jews were slaughted in the Holocaust of WWII… However, another 2 million people died… Christians, gypsies, homosexuals, the physically "imperfect"…. etc., etc. 1/4 of all who died in the Holocaust of WWII were NOT Jews. Why do we "remember the Holocaust" and only remember Jews?? No, Che — YOU are the racist. I am an anti-racist. who were the book burners. It was the anti-Semitic Marxists like Stalin who censored the works of Soviet writers. What is this? Marxists were only anti-Semitic? Marxists were anti-anything except for Marxism for goodness sakes. This constant bandying about of the phrases "Nazi" and "anti-Semitic" makes me sick…. Are Jews crybabies?? Let’s call a spade a spade. Bigots are bigots no matter what their particular nationality/religion/political persuation may be. Not all bigots and racists are Nazi’s. What about Zionists who just dream of displacing the indiginous people of Palestine from their homeland? Is that racist? It was the Christians during the middle ages who declared works contrary to their beliefs heresy and then burned the authors at the stake if they failed to recant. It was never the Jews. It is NOW the Jews. All manner of things cannot be said in public in this day and age. The Jews, who control the media, are the present equivalent of book burners. THANK YOU!!!!!! All you are trying to do is to blame your victims Say what? When will Jews STOP PLAYING THE VICTIM GAME??? You use "Holocaust Guilt" to manipulate and achieve your own ends. You live in the US, enjoy your wealth and comfort yet cause the suffering of the Arab people in Palestine. Hypocrite! for your own sins. Say what? Jews may have been victims of Adolph Hitler. imho…. the Jewish people who have become Zionists prove that they have learned the lesson that Hitler taught very well…. "The abused becomes the abuser."

Professor MacDonald makes a convincing case that it was the other way around: that the Nazis actually learned from the Jews and that what we now see in Palestine is a continuation of ages-old Jewish evolutionary strategy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice try, but most Americans are far too smart (and too decent) to swallow such rubbish. No, most Americans are too stupid or preoccupied to recognize the truth. Thank you…. or, I might add that Americans are fed so much propaganda by the media which is controlled by Jews that they do not know the truth and they are too lazy to search out the "truth". Saabirah

Response:

McCain’s False Colors By Paul Saunders 2/2/2000 US Presidential Candidate John McCain may wave the banner of free markets and Capitalism but his views lean more towards those of his former communist captors. U.S. Sen. John McCain, Hanoi captive and alleged conservative, is now spouting in recent debates the propaganda of his former Communist captors. Sen. McCain says that he wants the government to forcibly reduce the gap between "the rich" and "the poor" in America. To get rich in America’s free market, you have to earn your wealth by persuading consumers to freely vote for your products and services with their hard-earned dollars. In fact, no one can legally obtain unearned wealth in America unless the government uses its power to unjustly grant them a special privilege. To become and remain poor in America’s free market, a small percentage of people involuntarily suffer freak accidents or severe medical illnesses. These people deserve our compassion and voluntary benevolence. However, the majority of the poor become and remain poor in a free market because they refuse to think, refuse to make rational decisions, refuse to work. Justice is the moral virtue operating in a free market which makes hard-working, thinking people rich while it allows lazy, unthinking people to become and remain poor. Demagogues of the left and communists have never liked the justice operating in the free market. The Republican party once advocated: self-reliance, hard-work, free markets, and justice. Now Sen. McCain and other Republicans have betrayed these values and joined their Communist enemies to demand the equalization of outcomes from the free market. The future of America now rests with those who reject both the Democrats and Republicans and become radicals for Capitalism, free markets, and justice.

Response:

Thank you for the response. Here’s a couple of comments in return: Of course there are Jewish fanatics (if you want to call them Zionists, go ahead). But they are no more representative of Jews in general (or even of Israelis in my experience) than The Order is of Christians or Bin Lada’s terrorists are of Muslims. That’s pretty easy to prove, too. If they or the Bin Lada type were more than a small minority of their own people, we never would have heard of a "peace process," let alone have seen it actually make some progress. The very concept of "race" in regard to human beings is a pseudo-concept which ought to be buried along with the aether and philisgon for the following reasons: (1) It is impossible to set up any defining sets of physical characteristics which will divide people into groups in the way in which racists wish to do. The exceptions always outway the regularities. (2) Human DNA is Human DNA; there are no genus differences (which is precisely what a "racial difference" would have to be. (3) Empirical evidence demonstrates that in general a the more varied the gene pool of a group of human beings, the healthier and more intelligent they are — directly contrary to the racists’ claim regarding "racial purity." Therefore, of course you ought to be uncomfortable being called "Caucasian" or any other racial typing — as should we all. There are, of course cultural differences and it IS possible to define one culture (or sub-culture) so as to mark it off from others. Moreover, it is also possible to apply universal ethical criteria in judging these cultures (one which teaches its members to enjoy the pain of torturing others could legitimately be judged evil, whereas one which teaches compassion could legitimately be judged good, and so on). In general, however, those cultures which have endured are ethically equals; their differences are not differences of ethics. Finally, forty years ago there weren’t that many American Muslims, nor did I happen to serve with any in the armed forces. Of course, the situation is very different today; from what I understand (perhaps like a lot of other American minorities including blacks, Hispanics, and Jews who have always felt felt they had something to prove), Muslims serve on active duty in far larger numbers than their proportion of the population would suggest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, Nice to meet you…. My name is Saabirah and I’m Muslim. I’ve spent a while living with Jews, Muslims and Christians in Israel/Palestine…. however, I am American. I’ve "interacted" with groups of various types…. Lived in Boston which has a very large Hispanic community and now I live among and most of my friends are African American (I can’t stand being called "caucasian"!). I’ve grown up with Jews. I’ve worked and lived with Hispanics, African-Americans, and Jews. (But, admittedly, not American natives) I know from my personal experience of nearly 58 years that most generalizations about all of these people are false, that each individual is precisely that — an individual who should rightly be judged on his own merits and actions. Absolutely. When we make generalizations based upon cultural heritage we not only disregard the human dignity of all people but we show ourselves to be quite bigotted. I know from my own personal experience that so-called "Jewish" or "Zionist" conspiracies are a myth with no more substance than the Tooth Fairy. Baloney! Have you ever lived in Israel? Now…. there is a hotbed of Zionism. There are actually communities of Jews who will not be associated with Zionists because they hate the whole idea. Would you call ethnic cleansing a myth? That’s what was proposed in Israel… Haifa was targetted as the jumping off place. Now you can argue all you want based upon your reading of fascist and racist literature or the fantasies of your own mind — but I know they are false. It is as simple as that. I really don’t know how this thread began… but, one thing I can tell you… Zionism and the radical ideas of Zionist Jews…. tons of American Jews who hold dual citizenship… has nothing to do with any "tooth fairy" mindset. Oh, one last note. When I was in the army about a century or so ago (feels like the Punic Wars to me now), I would rather have had an honest Jew, Black, Hispanic, or any other loyal American guarding my back than a racist who despises his own American heritage and his Constitution. What about a Muslim?? — Saabirah Not everything that is faced can be changed But, nothing can be changed until it is faced.

"Some see the world as it is, and ask ‘Why?’ I see the world as it should be, and ask ‘Why not?’" –RK

Response:

Because, just as you seem to delight in gratuitiously denigrating Jews and other minorities, so do I delight in disparaging racists, bigots, and hate-mongers.

Entertainment at the Che’Gu Maru residents must be severely lacking. But it is not gratuitious in my case since I am a member of a minority myself (non-Christian Neanderthal) and therefore when you present anyone as subhuman who is not in your mind white and Christian, you are directly attacking me.

Here’s a challenge for you Che’Gu Maru. Try writing just one paragraph without fabricating what my thoughts or opinions are. Bet you can’t do it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is? Could you possibly quote where I said such a thing? No, then it’s fabricated. Of course I know what slander is; it is the sort of thing you write about colored people. I also know the difference between explicit and implicit, which you seem to be ignoring. While you may never have explicitly stated that anyone doesn’t have a right to express an opinion different than yours, this is implied by the sorts of invective you use. Do you know what slander is? Obviously I made a mistake in responding. Your intent is not to engage in discussion, but rather to denounce anything I say or post. Why don’t you do us both a favor and just "killfile" my post?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because, just as you seem to delight in gratuitiously denigrating Jews and other minorities, so do I delight in disparaging racists, bigots, and hate-mongers. Entertainment at the Che’Gu Maru residents must be severely lacking. But it is not gratuitious in my case since I am a member of a minority myself (non-Christian Neanderthal) and therefore when you present anyone as subhuman who is not in your mind white and Christian, you are directly attacking me. Here’s a challenge for you Che’Gu Maru. Try writing just one paragraph without fabricating what my thoughts or opinions are. Bet you can’t do it.

I have a counter-challenge for you. Tell us just how many Jews you have personally interacted with in your life (as well as blacks, American natives, and Hispanics while you are at it.) I’ve grown up with Jews. I’ve worked and lived with Hispanics, African-Americans, and Jews. (But, admittedly, not American natives) I know from my personal experience of nearly 58 years that most generalizations about all of these people are false, that each individual is precisely that — an individual who should rightly be judged on his own merits and actions. I know from my own personal experience that so-called "Jewish" or "Zionist" conspiracies are a myth with no more substance than the Tooth Fairy. Now you can argue all you want based upon your reading of fascist and racist literature or the fantasies of your own mind — but I know they are false. It is as simple as that. Oh, one last note. When I was in the army about a century or so ago (feels like the Punic Wars to me now), I would rather have had an honest Jew, Black, Hispanic, or any other loyal American guarding my back than a racist who despises his own American heritage and his Constitution.

Response:

But that is simply not true. The leading newspapers are still controlled by the Luce and Hearst families, hardly Jewish let alone Zionist. You are asserting things which simply are factually false, and doing so in such a bald-faced way that you expect people to swallow it whole. Wasn’t it Gobbels who developed the doctrine of the big lie? And isn’t this an exact application of that same technique?

Response:

What do the Jews have to do with it (other than they’re your favorite whipping boy because, I assume, you find they are too smart for you to compete with).? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – International experts worried about U.S.-based Internet racism By GEIR MOULSON

Response:

What do the Jews have to do with it (other than they’re your favorite whipping boy because, I assume, you find they are too smart for you to compete with).?

Contrary to what you might think, the Simon Wiesenthal Center isn’t ran by a bunch of Buddhist Monks… Yet, one more example of Jews for censorship.

Response:

Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is? Once again a Nazi demonstrates that when he talks about freedom, he means freedom for himself and chains for everyone else. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do the Jews have to do with it (other than they’re your favorite whipping boy because, I assume, you find they are too smart for you to compete with).? Contrary to what you might think, the Simon Wiesenthal Center isn’t ran by a bunch of Buddhist Monks… Yet, one more example of Jews for censorship.

Response:

What do the Jews have to do with it (other than they’re your favorite whipping boy because, I assume, you find they are too smart for you to compete with).? Contrary to what you might think, the Simon Wiesenthal Center isn’t ran by a bunch of Buddhist Monks…

Some people might speculate that Swiss-based information technology law expert David Rosenthal is also a member of the Tribe.

Response:

Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is?

I have never seen Lord Haw Haw advocate censorship of any group’s views, though he deplores the Jewish death grip on the channels of public discourse in the US. Your selective blindness notwithstanding, Jews are the ONLY notable source of attacks on the First Amendment’s protection of free POLITICAL speech. (Radical Christians and radical feminists certainly attempt to limit the scope of First Amendment as it relates to pornography, but that is a different matter.) Jews are also in the avant garde of the effort to dismantle your cherished 2d Amendment rights. Once again a Nazi demonstrates that when he talks about freedom, he means freedom for himself and chains for everyone else.

Once again you demonstrate that you apply a double standard: one standard for Jews and another standard for other racists.

Response:

What’s the difference between inciting violence towards an ethnic group and trying to shut them up? (And before you claim Haw-Haw hasn’t directly solicited violence towards Jews and minorities, I realize that. However, the sort of invective he uses has precisely the same effect, and I am certain both you and he know precisely what you are doing, encouraging the Buford Farrows and other crazies who are hardly defenders of democracy in any guise.) Your selective blindness notwithstanding, Jews are the ONLY notable source of attacks on the First Amendment’s protection of free POLITICAL speech.

I return the ball to you. Prove it. Moreover, prove that it is the fact that the people you may cite are Jews which is the cause of their behavior and not (for example) urban dwellers, educated, liberal arts scholars, and so on. But know that just because someone has what you think of as a Jewish name doesn’t mean that person is Jewish; just this week a lady named Cohen was buried with Catholic rites (because she was Catholic, of course). (Radical Christians and radical feminists certainly attempt to limit the scope of First Amendment as it relates to pornography, but that is a different matter.) Jews are also in the avant garde of the effort to dismantle your cherished 2d Amendment rights.

Again, prove it. JPFO would dispute this, I think. Once again a Nazi demonstrates that when he talks about freedom, he means freedom for himself and chains for everyone else. Once again you demonstrate that you apply a double standard: one standard for Jews and another standard for other racists.

I have yet to have come across any American Jew speaking as a Jew against any other ethnic or cultural group, other than those which are attempting to incite violence against innocent people. But any decent person would speak out against such vicious slimeballs, so their having been Jewish is incidental. (And don’t side-step about Israel and the Arabs. This discussion is about the Constitution of the United States, so any reference to a foreign nation is irrelevant.) Historically, it was the Nazis — racists like yourself — who were the book burners. It was the anti-Semitic Marxists like Stalin who censored the works of Soviet writers. It was the Christians during the middle ages who declared works contrary to their beliefs heresy and then burned the authors at the stake if they failed to recant. It was never the Jews. All you are trying to do is to blame your victims for your own sins. Nice try, but most Americans are far too smart (and too decent) to swallow such rubbish.

Response:

Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is?

Could you possibly quote where I said such a thing? No, then it’s fabricated. Do you know what slander is? Obviously I made a mistake in responding. Your intent is not to engage in discussion, but rather to denounce anything I say or post. Why don’t you do us both a favor and just "killfile" my post?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is? I have never seen Lord Haw Haw advocate censorship of any group’s views, though he deplores the Jewish death grip on the channels of public discourse in the US. What’s the difference between inciting violence towards an ethnic group and trying to shut them up? (And before you claim Haw-Haw hasn’t directly solicited violence towards Jews and minorities, I realize that. However, the sort of invective he uses has precisely the same effect, and I am certain both you and he know precisely what you are doing, encouraging the Buford Farrows and other crazies who are hardly defenders of democracy in any guise.)

I don’t buy it. Your selective blindness notwithstanding, Jews are the ONLY notable source of attacks on the First Amendment’s protection of free POLITICAL speech. I return the ball to you. Prove it.

I think not. Last time I "proved" something to you, you disappeared. You ducked my response. It was a waste of my time. Moreover, prove that it is the fact that the people you may cite are Jews which is the cause of their behavior and not (for example) urban dwellers, educated, liberal arts scholars, and so on. But know that just because someone has what you think of as a Jewish name doesn’t mean that person is Jewish; just this week a lady named Cohen was buried with Catholic rites (because she was Catholic, of course).

A person can be a Jew and a Catholic. (Radical Christians and radical feminists certainly attempt to limit the scope of First Amendment as it relates to pornography, but that is a different matter.) Jews are also in the avant garde of the effort to dismantle your cherished 2d Amendment rights. Again, prove it. JPFO would dispute this, I think.

Lipset & Raab in "Jews and the New American Scene" (p. 147) write that "overwhelmingly, [Jews] have taken the liberally correct position on such issues as abortion, gun control, and nuclear freeze proposals." That hardly proves they are in the avant garde, but the concessions of two Jews who are respected enough to be published by the Harvard U. Press does suggest that Jews "overwhelmingly" seek to undermine your 2d Amendment rights. Of course, this is merely anecdotal, but if you watch Waco: The Rules of Engagement, you will see Jewish gun-control freak Charles Schumer in action. While doing his damnedest to justify the government pogrom, he seems a grotesque caricature of the stereotypical evil Jew. Indeed, he is an evil man, even if it has nothing to do with his Jewishness. Once again a Nazi demonstrates that when he talks about freedom, he means freedom for himself and chains for everyone else. Once again you demonstrate that you apply a double standard: one standard for Jews and another standard for other racists. I have yet to have come across any American Jew speaking as a Jew against any other ethnic or cultural group, other than those which are attempting to incite violence against innocent people.

It sounds like you have limited experience with Jews. But any decent person would speak out against such vicious slimeballs, so their having been Jewish is incidental. (And don’t side-step about Israel and the Arabs. This discussion is about the Constitution of the United States, so any reference to a foreign nation is irrelevant.) Historically, it was the Nazis — racists like yourself —

No, Che — YOU are the racist. I am an anti-racist. who were the book burners. It was the anti-Semitic Marxists like Stalin who censored the works of Soviet writers. It was the Christians during the middle ages who declared works contrary to their beliefs heresy and then burned the authors at the stake if they failed to recant. It was never the Jews.

It is NOW the Jews. All manner of things cannot be said in public in this day and age. The Jews, who control the media, are the present equivalent of book burners. All you are trying to do is to blame your victims

Say what? for your own sins.

Say what? Nice try, but most Americans are far too smart (and too decent) to swallow such

rubbish. No, most Americans are too stupid or preoccupied to recognize the truth.

Response:

Because, just as you seem to delight in gratuitiously denigrating Jews and other minorities, so do I delight in disparaging racists, bigots, and hate-mongers. But it is not gratuitious in my case since I am a member of a minority myself (non-Christian Neanderthal) and therefore when you present anyone as subhuman who is not in your mind white and Christian, you are directly attacking me. Aren’t you being a bit hypocritical, since it’s your objective to shut up all Jews? If that isn’t censorship, what is? Could you possibly quote where I said such a thing? No, then it’s fabricated.

Of course I know what slander is; it is the sort of thing you write about colored people. I also know the difference between explicit and implicit, which you seem to be ignoring. While you may never have explicitly stated that anyone doesn’t have a right to express an opinion different than yours, this is implied by the sorts of invective you use. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you know what slander is? Obviously I made a mistake in responding. Your intent is not to engage in discussion, but rather to denounce anything I say or post. Why don’t you do us both a favor and just "killfile" my post?

Response:

You can speculate all you want, but the fact that someone has a last name with a Germanic derivation hardly means he is Jewish any longer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people might speculate that Swiss-based information technology law expert David Rosenthal is also a member of the Tribe.

Response:

Hmmm……. it seems that you don’t have a clue about ZIONISM. Why is it you are so upset when someone points out a fact that the LEADING ADVOCATES against freedom of speech are the same ones who control the media and the UN – Zionists. A Zionist is not a religious Jew in general but a supremacist racist fanatic for whom non-Zionists are Goyim (dogs) and non-Zionist Jews are traitors. The same way an Islamist is not a Muslim (not noticed because people in their ignorance think because the ‘religion’ is called Islam one who follows it is a Muslim – far from it – Islamist is a NEW word the same as ZIONIST is) but a political supremacist who names his supremacist hate-ideology after his religion in order to seek legitimacy. Please CheGuMaru – don’t get so uptight about a topic if you don’t know enough about it. I am merely an observer, and I see this degenerating into a personal slander match – can you not talk constructively and politely to people, and do what is always a good policy in life – put yourself in the other’s person’s shoes and FIRST OF ALL consider if they MIGHT NOT BE RIGHT even remotely? It saves a lot of embarassment later. Years from now you may actually get to reading up on the subject and then feel sorry how you felt about HawHaw or whoever and wish you could look all those people up and apologise. TRUST ME I have been there myself! — WWW.MATHABA.NET Your Antidote to the New World Order!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can speculate all you want, but the fact that someone has a last name with a Germanic derivation hardly means he is Jewish any longer. Some people might speculate that Swiss-based information technology law expert David Rosenthal is also a member of the Tribe.

Response:

International experts worried about U.S.-based Internet racism By GEIR MOULSON GENEVA (February 16, 2000 Associated Press) – Experts at a U.N. meeting Wednesday said Wednesday that the United States could do more to curb the use of the Internet for racist material while upholding freedom of speech. "New forms of communications technology such as the Internet are being used to support the dissemination of racial hatred," Mary Robinson, the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, told participants in a three-day seminar on racism. Speakers noted the legal challenges of controlling Internet content in, and originating from, the United States, where the First Amendment of the constitution guarantees freedom of speech. There are an estimated 250 to 400 self-proclaimed hate groups in the United States with their own Web sites. The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, whose monitors follow links from hate groups’ Web sites, said last year about 2,000 sites had surfaced as "problematic," for example, offering instructions for bomb-making or extolling the Ku Klux Klan. "The United States has developed into a safe haven for racists spreading their word worldwide by using the Internet," Swiss-based information technology law expert David Rosenthal said in a paper submitted to the conference, which started Wednesday. European countries, most of which outlaw racist speech, say most racist and hate sites are made available in or through the United States, he said. Although the U.S. government cannot ban racist speech outright, it could impose "reasonable restrictions," such as requiring a permit that would force publishers to identify the content of their sites, Rosenthal argued. A possible strategy to deal with Internet hate sites could be based on whether they amount to discrimination, an area where U.S. law is strict, he said. —

Response:

Age Restrictions/Youth Rights

admin — Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m a member of the Americans for a Society Free from Age Restrictions (WWW.ASFAR.ORG) and thought you people interested in activism might want to check it out. Come over and consider joining the fight to protect and advance the civil rights of youth! -Daniel McGuire

Response:

Come over and consider joining the fight to protect and advance the civil rights of youth! -Daniel McGuire

Ageism is not just victimizing the elderly but also young people. Keep up the challenge to statist authority….. H Stop Biomedical Censorship! Hatch Feinstein bill now in House of Reps! http://maxpages.com/stopcensors/ Medical Marijuana Day is February 15th! http://maxpages.com/mmjday/

Response:

International YouthPeace Week

admin — Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: asif ullah November 8, 1999 212-228-0450 YOUTH LOOKING AHEAD: INTERNATIONAL YOUTHPEACE WEEK 1999 As a century and millennium of resistance comes to a close, young people will carry the flames of activism into the new year during International YouthPeace Week. From November 26th – December 3rd , the largest shopping holiday week of

the year, International YouthPeace Week will underline the contradictions of "tis the season to be jolly" by providing a platform for various issues concerning youth, to be challenged and acted upon. During this week, youth and youth advocates will be leafleting against war toys and sweatshops. They will be informing consumers about the products they purchase and the stores they shop in. They will protest the military presence in their schools and the culture of violence in our communities. Tens of cities throughout the United States and Internationally will be immersed in activism. In Connecticut young people will take to malls to protest war toys, in New York youth will be leafleting in subway stations against the prison industrial complex, in Houston various youth groups will be coming together to discuss nonviolence activism. There will also be events in Puerto Rico around Vieques, in Guatemala around the student movement and also events in other areas. International YouthPeace Week paves the road for organizations to get their message across and serves as an outlet for young people to plug into these efforts. Imagine how much more effective we can be as conscientious objectors to war and militarism, to racism and sexism — to all forms of oppression and exploitation, if we are able to link our struggles and together let our voices be heard. In the close of the 20th century and the second millennium CE, International YouthPeace Week strives to breed new and exciting activism into the 21st century. Through the coalition effort of International YouthPeace Week, the awareness of our respective struggles is heightened and the possibility of collaboration in resistance becomes an actual reality. For a more detailed list of actions and for further information, contact YouthPeace at (212)228-0450, fax (212)228-6193, e-mail Error! Bookmark not defined.. YOUTHPEACE War Resisters League Phone (212)228-0450 339 Lafayette Street Fax (212)228-6193 War Resisters League 339 Lafayette St. New York, NY 10012 212-228-0450 212-228-6193 (fax) 1-800-975-9688 (YouthPeace and A Day Without the Pentagon) web address: http://www.nonviolence.org/wrl Weekly News Update on the Americas * Nicaragua Solidarity Network of NY 339 Lafayette St, New York, NY 10012 * 212-674-9499 fax: 212-674-9139 Weekly News Update on the Americas * Nicaragua Solidarity Network of NY 339 Lafayette St, New York, NY 10012 * 212-674-9499 fax: 212-674-9139

Response:

HELP! how can I find local wiccans?

admin — Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

try alt.pagan.contacts – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for local wiccans in my area to converse with, problem is, I live in mid west, hick country. Don’t get me wrong I love it here, but many people are totally anal! spankx for the help

Response:

Looking for local wiccans in my area to converse with, problem is, I live in mid west, hick country. Don’t get me wrong I love it here, but many people are totally anal! spankx for the help

Where in the Midwest do you live? I’m in Illinois, and I totally understand. I haven’t been able to find any Wiccans in my area either. Email me if you think you live nearby Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Where in the midwest are you…I am in the Chicago area. Go to onelist.com and look for a state email list…that would be a good start. ALso go to the contact page on my web site and find the link for the World Pagan Network. You might find some local contacts through there. Good luck and Blessed be!!!! — With Love and Bright Blessings, Rev. Eric Roberts Witches of the West Homepage http://www.witchnet.org "First, they came for the labor unions but I wasn’t a labor unionist, so I didn’t speak up. Then they came for the Communists but I wasn’t a communist, so I didn’t speak up. Then they came for the Jews but I wasn’t a Jew, so I didn’t speak up. Then they came for the Catholics but I wasn’t a Catholic, so I didn’t speak up. Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak up." Pastor Martin Niemoller, after being liberated from a Nazi concentration camp during World War II "The only thing they have to fear from us is breaking down the walls that keep them trapped and the knowledge that the kingdom of heaven really is within you just like Brother Jesus said" ‘Drawing Down the Moon" by Margot Adler…the quote is from an anonymous source. "If you ever think that you’re too small to be effective, you’ve never been in bed with a mosquito" Wendy Schaetzel Lesko, head of youth project Activism 2000

woad.vcf

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Response:

Where are you from? I am from minnesota and have no problems finding Wiccas. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for local wiccans in my area to converse with, problem is, I live in mid west, hick country. Don’t get me wrong I love it here, but many people are totally anal! spankx for the help

Response:

For anyone interested…I created a onelist mailing list for Illinois Wiccans today. I checked and there wasn’t one for the whole state, just for the Chicago area. If anyone wants to join, here’s the URL: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/IllinoisWiccans Be well, Mahvelle Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

For anyone interested…I created a onelist mailing list for Illinois Wiccans today. I checked and there wasn’t one for the whole state, just for the Chicago area.

I usually check out the local ley lines. The Goths can be found at the clothing store. Your Pal BirdTribe — A gallery of my artworks, music and words http://members.xoom.com/BirdTribe/index.html

Response:

Looking for local wiccans in my area to converse with, problem is, I live in mid west, hick country. Don’t get me wrong I love it here, but many people are totally anal!

Well, what wiccans there be are probably in the broom closet. Try posting in other ngs, and there are some websites. Where are you located? You’d be AMAZED at how many pagans are walking about, many in protective coloration. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Looking for local wiccans in my area to converse with, problem is, I live in mid west, hick country. Don’t get me wrong I love it here, but many people are totally anal! spankx for the help