Activism Change

Maggie's Farm

Question:

headbeat (ja…@jlu.bn3.com.nospam) wrote:

: Maggie’s Farm represents the corporate workplace. : Maggie’s Brother represents the unions. : Maggie’s Pa represents the government, : Maggie’s Ma represents religious establishments, the church. This is a really interesting analogy.  I am curious as to who Maggie is, however.  Would he be the corporate executive?  Can’t say that I’m a Bob Dylan fan, but he does write neat lyrics. In my part-time working career so far, I’ve paid visits to both Maggie’s Farm and Maggie’s Brother.  My tax dollars go to Maggie’s Pa and I grew up in Maggie’s Catholic Ma.  But I since went to Maggie’s Ma’s daughter (cousin?) as I found large organized religion for me personally to stifle the *relationship* aspect of the faith. As for the farm, my personal view is that it takes a lot of creative networking and searching to find a niche within the corporate framework where meaningful work can be found.  Even what is considered a pretty menial and low-wage job, i.e. serving customers at a convenience store, I found ways to spice it up and enjoy it for a good many years.  It was also a great cultural experience as a lot of the people I worked with had East Indian backgrounds and I made some great friends there. : But it’s wanting : to be *free* that ironically can lead one into creating a self- : imposed prison of alienation. Hmmm.. interesting.  There have been times in my life where I’ve felt like I was alone in this world – and that the quirks I have, gifts, ways of viewing life, etc. are alien and hardly anyone understands me.  It is no joke to feel like an outsider.  Especially when it occurs in the context of my own extended family.  However, what helps get past these feelings of alienation is to focus on the uniqueness of each person.  This is hard for those I’d ordinarily ‘write off’ but the rewards of sticking it out and working to gain a rapport are worth it. Just recently I picked up a reference letter from one of the supervisors at Maggie’s Brother grain elevator union and the boss wrote that two things he complimented me on where gaining rapport with students and full-time workers as well as working well with a minimum of supervision.   So it’s nice to get good feedback from others and accept and forgive those people whom my first instinct would be to reject them.  And a similar dynamic is in my family – finally there are starting to come around and recognize who I really am, but this wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t take active steps to love them and make contacts with them, in spite of the major difference in how we view the world, and my initial temptation to write them off. Steve

Response:

In article <MPG.14bf072614d3fc54989…@news.psnw.com>,   headbeat <ja…@jlu.bn3.com.nospam> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You don’t get > to think for yourself, and when you do, you can’t really apply > your own ideas.  Your head fills up with stuff that you can’t > really use, and it becomes a source of constant frustration for > you.  Meanwhile, you get dumbed down with menial tasks over the > years.  Bang — the once promising individual is assimilated to > play by the rules, even if those rules may work against you. > anyway, and they aren’t very effective.  So maybe you’ll get a > little higher pay, and usually just token amounts that don’t > hardly mean anything.  But really you’re just trading one form of > enslavement for another.  Now you have the ‘middle man’ to deal > with — more rules, and because of that perhaps even less > opportunity to make your work personally meaningful. > its power?  You’re still a cog in the machine, forced to > indirectly work against your own needs as a person.  (And of > course, the less assertive *you* are, the more likely you are to > our system, a lot of it has to be blatant lies.  So, even the > church isn’t a safe haven/niche.  Rather, it just pacifies you > into accepting something you probably shouldn’t. > Bottom line:  you’re a slave when you play by the rules.  Your > desire for individuality and genuine personal freedom never > becomes realized, because the system steals that away from you. > Of course they’ll probably put on a happy face to disguise the > process and make it more bearable.  Or at least force you to put > on the happy face. > And now, for me the thing will be to actually find decent work > that doesn’t do this, so I can re-enter mainstream society.

<Devil’s advocate mode on>  Heh!  Heh!    I think this about sums up the whole thing.  Going on for two entire messages worth about how you don’t want to be a slave and you want to be different and you want to have your own ideas and yadda yadda..  And then at the end you want to "re-enter mainstream society"!  In other words, you want all the PRIVILEGES associated with being one of the pack, without any of the losses.  Seems you want to cherry-pick mainstream society, more like.. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

On 8 Jan 2001 07:44:18 GMT, Steve Ruelle wrote: > headbeat (ja…@jlu.bn3.com.nospam) wrote: > : Maggie’s Farm represents the corporate workplace. > : Maggie’s Brother represents the unions. > : Maggie’s Pa represents the government, > : Maggie’s Ma represents religious establishments, the church. > This is a really interesting analogy.  I am curious as to who Maggie is, > however.  Would he be the corporate executive?  Can’t say that I’m a > Bob Dylan fan, but he does write neat lyrics.

Well, actually I guess Maggie would represent the system.  All the main establishments that keep our society operating.  Or Western society = Maggie, would be another way of looking at it. This was from what… 1966 or somewhere around there.  Lots of protest songs are from that era.  Although everyone jumped back *in* the system, for the most part, when it became more trendy.  It’s interesting because ‘Maggie’ crops up in a lot of other songs as well, and it apparently means the same thing, so Bob Dylan had his own personal code going it seems. > In my part-time working career so far, I’ve paid visits to both Maggie’s > Farm and Maggie’s Brother.  My tax dollars go to Maggie’s Pa and I grew up > in Maggie’s Catholic Ma.  But I since went to Maggie’s Ma’s daughter > (cousin?) as I found large organized religion for me personally to stifle > the *relationship* aspect of the faith.

Yeah, then John Wesley Harding (JWH –> Yahweh –> God) the album/song came out.  Kind of the same thing, the Jesus-figure does his thing basically outside the main establishment.  I’m just rambling here… no point basically, except that Bob Dylan is cool. > As for the farm, my personal view is that it takes a lot of creative > networking and searching to find a niche within the corporate framework > where meaningful work can be found.  Even what is considered a pretty > menial and low-wage job, i.e. serving customers at a convenience store, I > found ways to spice it up and enjoy it for a good many years.  It was also > a great cultural experience as a lot of the people I worked with had > East Indian backgrounds and I made some great friends there.

I’ve found similar thing, I suppose — it’s not all bad by any means.  And anyway, there *are* no alternatives, or very few of them for most of us.  So you focus on the good aspects and do it anyway.  That may be the best way to go, short of torturing yourself with doing nothing to contribute to society, refusing to use your talents. > : But it’s wanting > : to be *free* that ironically can lead one into creating a self- > : imposed prison of alienation. > Hmmm.. interesting.  There have been times in my life where I’ve felt like > I was alone in this world – and that the quirks I have, gifts, ways of > viewing life, etc. are alien and hardly anyone understands me.  It is no > joke to feel like an outsider.  Especially when it occurs in the context > of my own extended family.  However, what helps get past these feelings of > alienation is to focus on the uniqueness of each person.  This is hard for > those I’d ordinarily ‘write off’ but the rewards of sticking it out and > working to gain a rapport are worth it.

I kind of think really what helps for me is finding common ground — because I tend to come from the position as being the ‘unique’ one.  Otoh, the way you are suggesting to look at it is valuable when you encounter someone that from your perspective is viewed as ‘unique’ — they’re either ‘human’ or ‘alien,’ and hopefully you’d see the first of these if you can see the value of the traits that may be different from your own… > Just recently I picked up a reference letter from one of the supervisors > at Maggie’s Brother grain elevator union and the boss wrote that two > things he complimented me on where gaining rapport with students and > full-time workers as well as working well with a minimum of > supervision.

Well, certainly if I worked for United Parcel Service (UPS) I would personally be pretty loyal to my union — like $17.00 an hour just for driving around delivering packages.  It struck me as odd a few years ago when they went on strike over a pay dispute.  They by no means had a raw deal, at least from the pay standpoint. > So it’s nice to get good feedback from others and accept and forgive those > people whom my first instinct would be to reject them.  And a similar > dynamic is in my family – finally there are starting to come around and > recognize who I really am, but this wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t > take active steps to love them and make contacts with them, in spite of > the major difference in how we view the world, and my initial temptation > to write them off.

Well, I’ve reopened the dialogue between my family and I, just within the last few weeks — that is, with the 1/2 of my parents who happen to live on the east coast.  That’s where the majority of not-very-constructive criticism comes from in my life.  But it’s actually forgivable and understandable.  If you don’t explain to somebody the reasoning that guides you, they can only guess and of course would often get it wrong unless they happened to be telepathic. — headbeat

Response:

Yes, a recurring theme and more song lyrics.  They’re as good of a source as any to use as a springboard.  Some things I need to get out of my system *several* times before they really start to leave me alone.  Plus, I’m bored, and I wish I were back in school.  Sad but true.  But it’ll help to move on with things as I start sending out resumes and maybe landing some interviews that scare the hell out of me, in my quest for a Real Job. So, it’s Maggie’s Farm, by Bob Dylan.  Complete with my own spin, based on somebody else’s spin, although I don’t have the source to give credit.  I can feel it now, I’m moving towards possibly being totally on-topic, one of these days.  In the meantime, just ignore me.  I don’t know where else to post. Maggie’s Farm > I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s Farm no more. > No, I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s Farm no more. > Well, I wake in the morning, > Fold my hands and pray for rain. > I got a head full of ideas > That are drivin’ me insane. > It’s a shame the way she makes me scrub the floor. > I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s Farm no more.

Maggie’s Farm represents the corporate workplace.  You don’t get to think for yourself, and when you do, you can’t really apply your own ideas.  Your head fills up with stuff that you can’t really use, and it becomes a source of constant frustration for you.  Meanwhile, you get dumbed down with menial tasks over the years.  Bang — the once promising individual is assimilated to play by the rules, even if those rules may work against you.   Yeah, you may end up with a reasonably ‘good’ job and a decent paycheck, at the cost of sacrificing the better part of your life, and maybe even your mind. > I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Brother no more. > No, I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Brother no more. > Well, he hands you a nickel, > He hands you a dime, > He asks you with a grin > If you’re havin’ a good time, > Then he fines you every time you slam the door. > I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Brother no more.

Maggie’s Brother represents the unions.  They try to right the wrongs in the corporate workplace, their version of the wrongs anyway, and they aren’t very effective.  So maybe you’ll get a little higher pay, and usually just token amounts that don’t hardly mean anything.  But really you’re just trading one form of enslavement for another.  Now you have the ‘middle man’ to deal with — more rules, and because of that perhaps even less opportunity to make your work personally meaningful. > I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Pa no more. > No, I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Pa no more. > Well, he puts his cigar > Out in your face just for kicks. > His bedroom window > It is made out of bricks. > The National Guard stands around his door. > Ah, I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Pa no more.

Maggie’s Pa represents the government, the entity that oversees Maggie (corporations).  Endless bureaucracy is like a brick wall, and that brick wall is a source of tremendous power — not for you, but for the government.  Plus, how can one justify supporting a government that has the power to make the corporate world a better place, but does little if anything positive with its power?  You’re still a cog in the machine, forced to indirectly work against your own needs as a person.  (And of course, the less assertive *you* are, the more likely you are to be that cog.) > I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Ma no more. > No, I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Ma no more. > Well, she talks to all the servants > About man and God and law. > Everybody says > She’s the brains behind Pa. > She’s sixty-eight, but she says she’s fifty-four. > I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s Ma no more.

Maggie’s Ma represents religious establishments, the church.  If the supposed moral authority guiding our system allows such a system to exist, can it really be trusted?  Yeah there are a lot of nice sounding things.  But if the church is the foundation of our system, a lot of it has to be blatant lies.  So, even the church isn’t a safe haven/niche.  Rather, it just pacifies you into accepting something you probably shouldn’t. (Of course this was before Dylan’s born-again Christian era, which happened a few years after he wrote this song…) > I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s farm no more. > No, I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s farm no more. > Well, I try my best > To be just like I am, > But everybody wants you > To be just like them. > They say sing while you slave and I just get bored. > I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s farm no more.

Bottom line:  you’re a slave when you play by the rules.  Your desire for individuality and genuine personal freedom never becomes realized, because the system steals that away from you.   Of course they’ll probably put on a happy face to disguise the process and make it more bearable.  Or at least force you to put on the happy face. And now, for me the thing will be to actually find decent work that doesn’t do this, so I can re-enter mainstream society.  So I can actually *afford* to go on dates and have a better social life… in case I discover some opportunities out there, which I think I have been, lately.  So I can stop feeling so alienated from everybody else and start to fix up my life.  Of course most of this is pretty exaggerated to make a point.  But it’s wanting to be *free* that ironically can lead one into creating a self- imposed prison of alienation.  Life sucks when there are no good alternatives, even if you really need one. — headbeat

Response:

There’s a reference to "Maggie’s Farm" embedded in the new Placebo album. Check it out: "Sick and tired of Maggie’s Farm…..she’s a bitch with broken arms"  Placebo – "Slave To The Wage" Highly suggested by this listener.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -headbeat wrote: > Ideally, I don’t want to re-enter the mainstream.  But it’s like > there are fundamental human needs that can never be met if you > don’t.  So why even bother living if you’re going to deny > yourself those needs for the rest of your life?  You just die a > slow painful death. > So it’s morally neutral territory:  Exploit the system because > otherwise they’d exploit you anyway.  Self-defence.  If you can > do it effectively, it provides the power to live a more > fulfilling life.  Helping others or just helping yourself — you > get greater freedom to use how you wish.  Plus if everyone did > it, the system would fall apart, and possibly be replaced by a > better one. > Even with voluntary simplicity:  making less money means paying > less taxes, and you still have access to all the public services > everyone else does (sometimes even more).  You take advantage of > people with higher incomes.  But, they take advantage of you when > you’re a cooperative employee.  An eye for an eye, versus losing > one of your own eyes and being powerless to do anything about it. > Choice ‘A’ or choice ‘B’ is all I’ve got; if there *were* a > choice ‘C’ (a good niche) I’d probably take it, but I haven’t > found one. > BTW, the ideal would be something like the following:  for > everything you take from the society, you give back in equal > measure.  A ‘comfortable’ lifestyle requires ‘x’ amount of giving > back to the community in whatever fashion.  (You can never really > know if you’re doing that, but you can strive for it.)  That > would provide maximum personal fulfillment, because you have > nothing to feel guilty about — you’re free. > Most people are too busy surviving in order to do that, because > the people who can *give* them the power are too busy taking. > It’s not really a moral issue though, because people are forced > into their roles. > — > headbeat

Yeah, we’re all in the same boat! I struggled with this issue for several years before deciding "if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em" . The system doesn’t give a shit whether any individual lives, dies, drops out or succeeds, so you might as well make a decent life for yourself.

Response:

On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:00:31 GMT, Mark.Gr…@reading.ac.uk wrote: > <Devil’s advocate mode on>  Heh!  Heh!       I think this about sums up the whole > thing.     Going on for two entire messages worth about how you don’t want to be > a slave and you want to be different and you want to have your own ideas and > yadda yadda..  And then at the end you want to "re-enter mainstream society"! >  In other words, you want all the PRIVILEGES associated with being one of the > pack, without any of the losses.  Seems you want to cherry-pick mainstream > society, more like..

Ideally, I don’t want to re-enter the mainstream.  But it’s like there are fundamental human needs that can never be met if you don’t.  So why even bother living if you’re going to deny yourself those needs for the rest of your life?  You just die a slow painful death. So it’s morally neutral territory:  Exploit the system because otherwise they’d exploit you anyway.  Self-defence.  If you can do it effectively, it provides the power to live a more fulfilling life.  Helping others or just helping yourself — you get greater freedom to use how you wish.  Plus if everyone did it, the system would fall apart, and possibly be replaced by a better one. Even with voluntary simplicity:  making less money means paying less taxes, and you still have access to all the public services everyone else does (sometimes even more).  You take advantage of people with higher incomes.  But, they take advantage of you when you’re a cooperative employee.  An eye for an eye, versus losing one of your own eyes and being powerless to do anything about it.   Choice ‘A’ or choice ‘B’ is all I’ve got; if there *were* a choice ‘C’ (a good niche) I’d probably take it, but I haven’t found one. BTW, the ideal would be something like the following:  for everything you take from the society, you give back in equal measure.  A ‘comfortable’ lifestyle requires ‘x’ amount of giving back to the community in whatever fashion.  (You can never really know if you’re doing that, but you can strive for it.)  That would provide maximum personal fulfillment, because you have nothing to feel guilty about — you’re free. Most people are too busy surviving in order to do that, because the people who can *give* them the power are too busy taking.   It’s not really a moral issue though, because people are forced into their roles. — headbeat

Response:

Filed under: Voluntary simplicity

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