Location, Location, Location.
Question:
> But at the same time, I don’t want to come home to an empty apartment > anymore, either. Maybe I could get a cat…
Get a dog.
Response:
peerb…@wilde.oit.umass.edu (Imran Peerbhai) wrote: >Hmmmm…. Everyone seems to hate it from what I rad, but then why do >so many millions of people live there? And, if not LA, then where to >go? I don’t want to live in Minnesota–I’ld freeze to death(I grew up >in Chicago. I know exactly how cold minnesota is.) Any warm cities >with a good eomplyment sector and a good quality of life?
I’ve heard that Australia is quite good on those counts. I believe it’s quite tough to get into though, unless you happen to have the particular skills they’re after, and never having been myself I couldn’t comment on how shybie-friendly it is. But I’ve never met an Australian I didn’t like. (Not that I’ve met all that many. :-]) <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Aye, that’s what I fear most. I value stability. Idon’t like change, >even if for the better. I’m going to get into a story. >A long time ago, in a city Far, Far, away, lived a young college student, >who was dating a girl he wasn’t happy with. Everybody believed he could >do better. He even believed he could do better. "Why settle for someone >you don’t love?" people said. And one day, he decided that real love was >worth the risk, and left someone who he didn’t love. Now, that college >boy is a hi-tech employee, and comes home to an empty apartment each >night. He thinks,"Doh". He realizes that although he may not have loved >the girl, it probably was better than the life he chose, with a wife he >doesn’t have. He stops and thinks about how he may never find anyone >ever again. And again, all he can think is,"Doh"
"Doh!" indeed. I know that feeling. :-[ >Now, he doesn't want to take a risk, even though he's not happy. He >doesn't have enough free time to look for another job, and certainly not >one very far away. >Why wake up one day, without enough money to buy food? Clothes? How >will I pay the rent? Although I do have a savings now--Enough to last me >a couple of months, I don't want to live as if I cannot survive. >But at the same time, I don't want to come home to an empty apartment >anymore, either. Maybe I could get a cat...
I've been thinking along similar lines lately, and I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here. I certainly wouldn't describe myself as a risk taker as I like stability and continuity in my life, although to look at my CV/resume you'd never guess it. :-} But I've recently come to realise that life is like wandering through a theme park. You can either walk around watching everyone else on the rides, or you can get on board yourself and have a go. Now the thing is, either option is valid as long as that's what you *really* want to do. But when this park closes at the end of the day, that's it! You don't get to say, "Oh, but I'd really have like to have given that one a try." I'm probably just over a third of the way through my personal theme park, and already I'm looking over my shoulder at some of the rides I've passed and thinking, "You know...maybe that would have been a little scary, but maybe it would also have been fun." Maybe it's time I stopped watching all the others, and giving it a try for myself. OK, so maybe that wasn't the best analogy in the world, but the bottom line is (and yeah, I know it's a cliche) that you only get one shot at your life. Are you going to live it like an adventure, or play it safe? I'm beginning to realise that it's the people who take risks who get the most of out of life. Yeah, they may have times when their lives are full of uncertainties,and they may not have planned their future in the meticulous way that I do. But they live. I only exist. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Mark (ether...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: On the topic of being over-worked I have a sneaking suspicion that we : information workers are being screwed. From the companies I've worked with : it seems that you have business people running the show who aren't highly : skilled but know how to work it's workers to the bone. It kind of reminds me : of the days during the industrial revolution when the factory owners screwed : the manual workers. It's the programmers and the designers who are running : the industry but it's the manager's who are reaping the rewards. The only : solution is to set up on your own or freelance. : : > What is life like in Los Angeles, especially as it pertains to living Shy? : : I lived there for a while and I wouldn't recommend it. It has palm trees but : the people aren't very nice there. It's full of wannabe actors and : screen-writers so if you're not a producer people don't want to know you. : Hmmmm.... Everyone seems to hate it from what I rad, but then why do so many millions of people live there? And, if not LA, then where to go? I don't want to live in Minnesota--I'ld freeze to death(I grew up in Chicago. I know exactly how cold minnesota is.) Any warm cities with a good eomplyment sector and a good quality of life? : I'm not sure if location is everything, there is a certain about of making : the best of were you live. Though that's coming from someone who wants to : leave a small town for a large city. And as someone living in a large city, I can tell ya that it's very isolating. But, YMMV. : : > If I quit my job, I lose the security of both a paycheck, and a lifestyle : > I've already grown accustomed to. If I stay, as every day passes by, I : > remain alone. Then comes the risks. I feel shy people are inhently bad : > risk takers. We really hate losing. : : I've quit a number of jobs and you get used to the insecurity. Take the risk : because when you are in your twenties/thirties you can probably handle : anything. Aye, that's what I fear most. I value stability. Idon't like change, even if for the better. I'm going to get into a story. A long time ago, in a city Far, Far, away, lived a young college student, who was dating a girl he wasn't happy with. Everybody believed he could do better. He even believed he could do better. "Why settle for someone you don't love?" people said. And one day, he decided that real love was worth the risk, and left someone who he didn't love. Now, that college boy is a hi-tech employee, and comes home to an empty apartment each night. He thinks,"Doh". He realizes that although he may not have loved the girl, it probably was better than the life he chose, with a wife he doesn't have. He stops and thinks about how he may never find anyone ever again. And again, all he can think is,"Doh" Now, he doesn't want to take a risk, even though he's not happy. He doesn't have enough free time to look for another job, and certainly not one very far away. Why wake up one day, without enough money to buy food? Clothes? How will I pay the rent? Although I do have a savings now--Enough to last me a couple of months, I don't want to live as if I cannot survive. But at the same time, I don't want to come home to an empty apartment anymore, either. Maybe I could get a cat... : : Mark. : : -- Imran H Peerbhai http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~peerbhai/resume.html peerb...@wilde.oit.umass.edu
Response:
On the topic of being over-worked I have a sneaking suspicion that we information workers are being screwed. From the companies I've worked with it seems that you have business people running the show who aren't highly skilled but know how to work it's workers to the bone. It kind of reminds me of the days during the industrial revolution when the factory owners screwed the manual workers. It's the programmers and the designers who are running the industry but it's the manager's who are reaping the rewards. The only solution is to set up on your own or freelance. > What is life like in Los Angeles, especially as it pertains to living Shy?
I lived there for a while and I wouldn't recommend it. It has palm trees but the people aren't very nice there. It's full of wannabe actors and screen-writers so if you're not a producer people don't want to know you. I'm not sure if location is everything, there is a certain about of making the best of were you live. Though that's coming from someone who wants to leave a small town for a large city. > If I quit my job, I lose the security of both a paycheck, and a lifestyle > I've already grown accustomed to. If I stay, as every day passes by, I > remain alone. Then comes the risks. I feel shy people are inhently bad > risk takers. We really hate losing.
I've quit a number of jobs and you get used to the insecurity. Take the risk because when you are in your twenties/thirties you can probably handle anything. Mark.
Response:
>The original labor movement made the 8-hour day and the 40-hour workweek >a major issue. Now that we're told machines can do things better, >cheaper, faster, it seems like a reduction to 20 hours is in order.
Yes, I was always told this, too. Machines/computers are going to make everything SO much more efficient, we'll have to work far less. Whatever happened to that pipe dream?
Response:
Greetings All, Long time, no see. Been living a whole new life, on another coast, and have discovered something. Location has an effect on your happiness. Well, mine anyway. I've hopped about this great land of ours, and have begun to think that I'm definately screwed. Now that I'm not in school anymore(I know, still have the account--It's vestigal.), I've found that my new High-Tech job has a massive cost. No chance of meeting anyone. Heck, everyone I work with is older than I. I was talking to a co-worker today, who is probably going to be quitting and moving on to something else. He's very much like me. Knows the same programming languages. Earns the same cash. Same education, etc... He's been in high tech for years(over a decade). He's now 35 years old, single, shy, and moving into dissatisfaction. He's luckier than I. At least he had a few dates in the last year. Me, notta. Ever since I bought a car, I haven't so much as met one new person. And I realize a little more. Car==Not Bus. Bus has new people(you never talk to them, but once in a while, an accidental conversation arises.) Car has you, radio. Work has no women, Ok, I lie, there are 2 in my age range at work, but they're temps, and out of my leaage anyway. I love my job, but hate the lack of a social life, hate the cold and rain(seattle now.). I'm gaining weight, and am profoundly unhappy in life. I used to love work, now I trudge through the days, realizing that work is a trap. I might love my job, but where am I meeting somebody to spend the rest of my life with? I have a neck-ache right now. A simple massage would fix it in 10 seconds flat. Who will I get a neck rub from? Who was the last person I kissed? When? It's been years since my last kiss--3--. Each day passes, and I get one day older. I'm 25 now, what will life be like when I'm 26? 27? 28? Will I wake up one day, 30+ years old, and realize that I haven't had a date in 8+ years? Then I remember my old life. I remember dating a great girl, who I totally loved. I remember getting other dates. It took time, and I was never very good at it, but they did come.(and sometimes so did I. 
And I realized something. My life has never been the same on either coast. It was best back in the midwest. I've been happiest in these tiny college towns. I realize I can never go back to those towns. I've outgrown them. Nor can I find anything at all here. I can't imagine quitting my job. I have stock options, a good salary, good benefits, etc... Yet every day, I feel that I lose a little more of my soul. The emptiness that is lonliness is a darkness, creeping from the very outside of my being into my core. City life has turned me slightly jaded. I used to care about the homeless, the impoverished, and people I felt were wronged. Now, I just whish they were out of my face. Everywhere you go, it's, "Hey buddy, spare a penny to help the homeless." And as I sit here typing, another sad thought hits. I just don't care anymore. I saw a person today, on the entrance ramp to the freeway, holding a sign. "Will work--I have a family and kids to support." I saw that sign, and I was almost jealous. I mean, the guy didn't have much--But did he have what we never will? This high tech life--Is it worth not having a wife? Are stock options better than backrubs? Will free food(company provides dinner every night, to encourage people to stay late.) ever be worth more than coming home to somebody? Back on the original thought. Location, Location, Location. I never want to live in NYC(Although the last time I did have a date, it was with a girl I met in NYC.). I can't think of a good way to live my life. If I quit my job, I lose the security of both a paycheck, and a lifestyle I've already grown accustomed to. If I stay, as every day passes by, I remain alone. Then comes the risks. I feel shy people are inhently bad risk takers. We really hate losing. Even though the economy is hot, it's hot depending on where you live. I don't know where I would go. What would I do? I can't live in a small town. What use is a techie in a town that grows corn? What use is a techy on the ranch? What use is a techie behind the counter of a walmart? I can't stay in the big city. The techie jobs are grueling hours, and no chance of a social life. When I do have time, what do I have to do? It's a vicous circle. I can't bring myself to go to bars. I see all the alcoholics, the 40 year olds sitting with a beer, and see someting that I never want to be. Yet, as every day goes by, I notice that I look and act just a little more like them. Yesterday night, I had 4 shots of Bailey's before bed. Is this the trap? Is this new era of properarity really nothing more than a trap? With guys like me around, some jerk is going around dating 3 or 4 girls at a time. Why? Because he can. Because Guys like me are sitting in our offices, as these other guys are working out every day. As they gain whatever advantadge in meeting new people. Yes, we have more cash. I drive a Cabriolet. Do we really live better? Are we the Dexter's, sitting around in our lab, laughing maniacally at simple new tricks we can make our computers do? At least Dexter has Dee Dee. Who do we have? Back to Location. Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, WHERE we live affects our quality of life? Why do so many people live in California, Texas, Illinois, New York, Minnesota? Where do we shybies go, and where do we work, such that our quality of life is improved? How do we do it? I can't answer these questions. But, I can ask ye, all who will read this post, to answer these questions: What is life like in Los Angeles, especially as it pertains to living Shy? What can a high techie looking for love really do career wise? If L.A turns out to not be a good place to live for a shybe, where is? I can say that I vote the midwest, but I cannot survive the cold. Seattle has taken some of my adaptability away. To anyone willing to help this lost soul find his heart, I thank you. -- Imran H Peerbhai http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~peerbhai/resume.html peerb...@wilde.oit.umass.edu
Response:
My personal fantasy, pipe dream though it may be, is to earn enough money per hour to be able to put in less than 40 hours a week. (although 40 isn't *too* bad, it's when you start working more than this say 50, 60, 80 hours a week that is the real insanity (unless of course you reach that rare state of bliss where your work *is* a passion)). And why shouldn't I have this fantasy of mine? Ok, moneys a bit tight, but I do earn enough to live on now. It really doesn't take all *that* much to live on (although I suppose it's more than some people make - and also if you have kids and all that, *that* I guess can get expensive). Futhermore I believe I have the potential to get higher salaries if I put in the effort (and it takes quite a bit). But this is not motivating to *me* if all it means is more stuff (home ownership, a new car, blah, blah - although if that's what *you* want go for it, to each his own ...) however if I can use the money to be able to work less that *is* appealing to *me*, however it may be just another pipe dream.... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
>Physically, these kinds of jobs are >not demanding, but psychologically they can be exceptionally >draining. After all, there is a lot of constant background noise (machine >hums, telephones ringing, beeping, chatter, etc.) which can be stressful >as the brain is constantly processing this, even if it may be >unconscious. Thus, with all this sensory info processing, it can be >exhausting. Much more so, than say, extensive physical exercise.
Wow, I never thought of that. That just could be it. I have always wondered why I feel so drained in office environments. It's terribly exhausting......as I said, I've spent entire days bike riding off-road, and I still don't feel as tired as I do after a full day of sitting on my butt working in Excel. <<<Oh, I couldn't agree more - and so do a lot of leisure economists >>> Such animals exist? I'd show up to a class entitled "Economics of Leisure," too......hehe! >Not only should the workweek be lessened, but the amount of vacation time >increased in given jobs. It may just be that economic productivity would >*increase* if this were to occur, contrary to popular type-A belief.
Exactly! What's this 2-weeks-per-year BS? Is that really enough vacation? If we're only going to get 2 weeks per year, I'm sorry, we need to substantially shorten the work week. Why is it that the prevailing corporate mentality insists on literally working employees into early old age? I strongly believe that we can *still* function as a society while working a hell of a lot less, and still maintain economic "good times," though as someone pointed out, I ain't exactly seeing much economic benefit from this supposed "boom." In fact, I feel rather disillusioned.......I am SICK AND TIRED of hearing about how damn affluent everyone is becoming. It's certainly not happening here, I know that much. I am a college business graduate 2 years out, and I STILL am forced to work for a paltry $10-12/hour. I guess if a) you don't write computer code, or b) you don't start some idiotic dot.com company that will go under in 5 years anyway, you aren't taking part in this supposed economic boom. I am so sickened by all the stupid "Internet Economy" hype, I'm going to go blow chunks. I'm sorry, I know that many of you here work in the tech sector, but I'm going to laugh my a** off in 5 years when we are mired in recession and half these tech companies have gone under. Many of them aren't even profitable NOW........only reason why their stock prices are through the roof is because Wall Street is inhabited by a bunch of frothing, hype-peddling fools. But, I digress. >There comes a point of diminishing returns when trying to do things faster >and quicker, only leads to decreased output.
Exactly! Spoken like someone else who really did pay attention in economics class. I thought I was the only one. My fellow business graduates and those who graduated before me obviously did not grasp the concept of "diminishing returns." >but I think that's possible for growth to occur on the >basis of things like urban sustainability, a more relaxed work week and >increased vacation time, a more cooperative atmosphere, and a more >equitable income distribution.
I agree. I don't know how it is in Canada where you live, but in the United States, unfortunately, this will never happen. This is the land of unbridled capitalism. Here, heaven forbid if you disagree with the prevailing view, too, or else you'll be labeled "a communist." Oh, I'm sorry - I guess if wanting more free time and a less hectic, stressful society makes me a Communist, then so be it. Why can't people here wake up to all the utter bullshit capitalist propaganda we have been spoon-fed our whole lives? Life doesn't have to be this way.......it really doesn't. I see it, but I feel like I'm just railing hopelessly against the grain........everyone else seems all too content to merely leave the system as it is. >This is primarily a social-democratic >view, which doesn't argue totally against economic growth, but recognizes >that people do come before profits.
I agree completely with the people-before-profits sentiment. What was I saying about shyness? Ahhhh, I don't remember......hehe
Response:
Note to lurkers/readers: the discussion has somehow gravitated towards economics. But no worries, this has everything to do with shyness, as economic and political issues affect our everyday well-being. : Wow, I never thought of that. That just could be it. I have always wondered why : I feel so drained in office environments. It's terribly exhausting......as I : said, I've spent entire days bike riding off-road, and I still don't feel as : tired as I do after a full day of sitting on my butt working in Excel. Exactly. I would suspect, also, that sitting behind a desk or computer all day is not good for your physical health too. Stretching and napping are good ways to feel more relaxed, same with drinking water and bathroom breaks. Perhaps you can provide a professional proposal to your supervisor outlining how these and other benefits would help you in the job more, and help produce more. You could put forth the argument that you would be willing to stay at work longer if you were given more "recess" breaks. Thus, if the employer demands that you accompish set tasks, but doesn't give a time frame, perhaps explain that you could do the tasks at the end of the day, even if it meant staying a little longer due to things like napping, afternoon breaks, or other things. Best best is to negotiate, and to do so professionally. That is, you should already have a good trust established with the employer, and be willing to make accomodations - i.e. don't always expect to have your way, but nonetheless get your ideas out. Also, pay attention to how changes in your work system would affect others, and perhaps lobby to see if others would prefer changes, such as more breaks, etc. The key thing to realize is, how would improved worker conditions benefit the organization. Always keep this in the forefront, should you decide to do this. Organizations are starting to feel pressure that doing things the "old" way just isn't competitive anymore. Newer companies who do practice these things, of increased worker respect, giving workers more time to "play" to enhance creativity, are certainly in existence, and it's always helpful to back up any negotiations to change a work environment with references from competing organizations who have done such changes already. Basically the message is that if companies want to compete, they need to change the way they treat their workers. : Such animals exist? I'd show up to a class entitled "Economics of Leisure," : too......hehe! Actually, I was just perusing the university calendar, and unfortunately such a class doesn't exist 
There is a course called the economics of labor markets, however, and it does touch base on this topic. But they do have a sub-field of leisure economics, it's just that my university doesn't offer courses in it, unfortunately. : Exactly! What's this 2-weeks-per-year BS? Is that really enough vacation? Hardly. Many German companies offer 4 months a year for vacations. Also other societies do as well. If : we're only going to get 2 weeks per year, I'm sorry, we need to substantially : shorten the work week. I agree. I heard from my economics prof, who is a labor economist, that the AVERAGE labor hours of work per week per person is 42 in the U.S. That's insanse - that's the average, for crissakes! In Canada, it's a little less, 37.5 hours, but that is still quite a lot. It is likely that executive types are likely putting in 55-65 hours of work each week, if not more. Again, this stuff is discussed in detail in Ralph Keyes' book "Timelock" and I highly recommend it for a good read. I strongly believe : that we can *still* function as a society while working a hell of a lot less, : and still maintain economic "good times," True enough - as the outdated idea of 'growth' involves doing more things faster in less time - when productivity could be enhanced more by using more creative and humane methods of treating workers. We're stuck in a rut, though, at least with the prevailing corporate dinosaur model - in that people don't want to change their habits. : Exactly! Spoken like someone else who really did pay attention in economics : class. Well, it is my second favorite class this semester (second only to environmental psychology) I thought I was the only one. My fellow business graduates and those who : graduated before me obviously did not grasp the concept of "diminishing : returns." And it's not that difficult a concept to grasp, either. Initially, you have large marginal increases in product, but as the number of inputs continues to increase (for example, aggegrate labor hours worked) then past the point of MP = ML each additional increase in product decreases with a constant increase in labor. : >but I think that's possible for growth to occur on the : >basis of things like urban sustainability, a more relaxed work week and : >increased vacation time, a more cooperative atmosphere, and a more : >equitable income distribution.
: I agree. I don't know how it is in Canada where you live, To a degree, we have a socialistic system, but the prevailing corporate mentality from the U.S. does enter heavily into the way things are done here as well. One of the key differences, though, lies in the health care system which is essentially univeral. However this is changing for the worse, as Alberta is implementing a two-tiered private health care system. The province where I live is the most social-democratic of the major ones, but I'm not so sure about the eastern provinces. I should beef up on my Canadian politics but in the United : States, unfortunately, this will never happen. This is the land of unbridled : capitalism. I realize this - and while capitalism does have many benefits, it becomes a problem when the prevailing caplitalist mentality is extreme, just like it would be a problem is communism or socialism or other systems are taken to the extreme. It seems, that in the U.S. at least, capitalism has become a de facto golden calf - one large honkin' idol. Although there are some changes in the society, such as the influx of the environmental movement and also the voluntary simplicity movement, the dominant capitalistic view still is what I would consider at extreme proportions. Oh, I'm sorry - I guess if wanting : more free time and a less hectic, stressful society makes me a Communist, then : so be it. Call yourself a socialist and you won't get as many tomatoes thrown at you But seriously I agree with you, that the society really is sick - that those who express legitimate and well-thought out criticisms to the prevailing establishment get branded with unfair labels. It truly is an extreme view that society holds that if well-thinking and intelligent critics are labelled in plain and simple derogatory terms to discouarge the system from being placed under close scrunity. The best bet, as I mentioned above, is to work proactively to change the society, however. Merely getting emotinally upset about it, or lashing out at the establishment isn't going to change it - there needs to be effective, constructive, and goal-oriented negotiations taking place within organizaitons and the larger political sphere. Life doesn't have to be this : way.......it really doesn't. I see it, but I feel like I'm just railing : hopelessly against the grain........everyone else seems all too content to : merely leave the system as it is. See above. I totally agree with you here - but efforts need to be made for constructive and goal-oriented social change. Even if it means just influencing one person or organization. : I agree completely with the people-before-profits sentiment. Indeed, it's so obvious that it doesn't need to be repeated. After all, it is people that bring in profits to the organizations to begin with. So, if you really want growth, then treat the people fairly. By the way, I did some research, and Kellogs Inc is an example of a socially aware corporation that follows these principles quite well. So remember that the next time you buy your cereal Steve
Response:
Steve Ruelle (strue...@interchange.ubc.ca) wrote:
: This is primarily a social-democratic : view, which doesn't argue totally against economic growth, but recognizes : that people do come before profits. I should mention that, in my political explorations, I was heavily drawn into the 'green' view previously. Basically, the 'green' political view argues against unfettered economic growth, as it is assumed such growth takes away from the finite and irreplaceable resources of the planet which fuel the growth to begin with. In many ways this is true - and I do agree with the idea of the planet as providing our life support systems. However, from more reading I've done on the socially-aware side of things, it has been brought up the idea of 'human capital' - that is working with human potential to solve problems and as a source of productivity. This does not mean that humans are reduced to commodities - but rather that when you focus on creativity, potential, and/or more democratically run corporations then this helps boost productivity. Thus, economic growth need not come directly from the planet, but also it is possible for growth to occur with human potential. At least, that's what I've understood so far. Also, arguments have been made that environmentally sustainable technologies are indeed profitable, and it is not paradoxical to suggest that working towards urban sustainability can act to increase profits. For instance, Ballard Inc. has some sizeable shares on the stock market, and this is one of the leading manufacturers in alternative fuel technologies. In this sense, you can get the best of both worlds - foster a cooperative social atmosphere and make money too The problem, though, is that major corporations continue to exploit the environment AND people, believing that growth can only occur the way it's been done before. Thus, some environmenalists argue (c.f. the World Watch Institute) that if the earth's resources are used sustainably, the economic value would increase than if they are used with the current method - namely exploit, consume, and dispose. Anyways. Steve
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HyprRel23 (hyprre...@aol.com) wrote:
: Most large cities in this country by their very : definition PROMOTE shyness, and you have to wage a major effort to get things : rolling in the social department. It's all too easy to be shy and isolated in a : big city. True. Not all cities are like this, however, for instance where I live (Vancouver, B.C.) people are quite friendly - and I suppose this has a lot to with the prevalent social and political climate, not to mention its proximity to the mountains and oceans. Basically, Vancouver is surrounded by nature, so this does ease the urban pressure somewhat. Also, we are one of the dwindling provinces in the country that still has a social-democratic government elected (or, as close to one as you can get). But even so, there is still a lot of urban loneliness, even in this city, and one can imagine how much worse it could get, say living in L.A., Atlanta, or some of the other cities you cited. There are a lot of benefits to urban living - one being the wide variety of things to do, places to check out, restaurants to eat in, etc. however a huge drawback is the intense individualism and difficulty, as you say, finding opportunities to get the social ball rolling. But, perhaps, the reason for this is more political than environmental. In that, other largely dense cities, which would, by environmental standards, be 'tense', 'stressful', etc. they can be exceptionally social and there can be little problems in getting things together and a sense of community. The Netherlands is a good example of this - although the population density is the highest in the world, you don't get hardly as much of the urban loneliness as you would in say a major American city. Far too easy. First of all, like you mention, you have the grueling, : demanding slave labor we call "making a living." Yeppers. : from your place of employment in a traffic-clogged joint like LA, Miami, : Atlanta, Washington DC, Chicago and the like, you shave 1-2 hours easy off your : day, sitting in isolation (rush hour traffic). You got it. Millions of people around you : everyday, but still alone.......this is the big city reality for a shybie. You have it right. As I mentioned above, the reasons for this may be mainly political - in that other big cities are "shy-friendly" and/or have a largely developed sense of community, despite the fact that the population densities may be very high. What : happens when you DO get home? Sitting in an office all day is : exhausting........in fact, I feel more tired after a day in an office spent : sitting on my butt than I do after a 50-mile long bike ride. True - and I've felt like this as well after putting in long hours serving customers at service stations before. Physically, these kinds of jobs are not demanding, but psychologically they can be exceptionally draining. After all, there is a lot of constant background noise (machine hums, telephones ringing, beeping, chatter, etc.) which can be stressful as the brain is constantly processing this, even if it may be unconscious. Thus, with all this sensory info processing, it can be exhausting. Much more so, than say, extensive physical exercise. Speaking of which, going for a long run or workout after an office job is a good idea, as it gets the endorphin levels kickin' afterwards. : What else do you have : time for? Not a heck of a lot - after all with long hours worked, there isn't much free time in between. But even so, with the free time you have, it makes sense to maximize the use of it, and have as much fun as you can, and/or pursue things that are meaningful to you - so that if you can't stand your job, you can at least do things like you in between when you're working. In this sense, this is where time management comes in. Find out how to eek as much fun out of those in-between hours as you possibly can Ideally, working at a job you love, not so much doing it because you have to, is something to strive for - but if you're stuck in a dead-end job, then making the most of the free time you have is a good thing to shoot for. > Work really does take up an inordinate amount of time for
: people......I really think the workweek should be substantially lessened. Oh, I couldn't agree more - and so do a lot of leisure economists If my university offers a course in the economics of leisure, you can be sure I'll show up Not only should the workweek be lessened, but the amount of vacation time increased in given jobs. It may just be that economic productivity would *increase* if this were to occur, contrary to popular type-A belief. More relaxed, creative, and rejuvinated workers would be able to contribute more to organizations and boost profits. What : are the benefits to getting things done fast, faster, and fastest? Why does : society feel this almost obsessive-compulsive need to move ever faster? Because it's f*cked in the head, that's why. But seriously, what needs to happen is for changes to be made in organizations, and in the larger socio-political sphere in order to promote the idea of a more relaxed, slowed down, and healthy society with the idea that when workers are more relaxed and creative, productivity can increase. After all, just look at Germany. There comes a point of diminishing returns when trying to do things faster and quicker, only leads to decreased output. The more you try and control time, the more time controls you. The obsession-compulsion of trying to do more things in less time is also known as the time-crunch. See, for instance, Ralph Keyes' book, "Timelock: How life got so hectic and what to do about it". Although some would argue that the economy should not grow at all - this is a valid view - but I think that's possible for growth to occur on the basis of things like urban sustainability, a more relaxed work week and increased vacation time, a more cooperative atmosphere, and a more equitable income distribution. This is primarily a social-democratic view, which doesn't argue totally against economic growth, but recognizes that people do come before profits. Steve
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The hardest part of trying to work less than 40 hours is not the per hourly wage, cause once you manage to get that amount up there a bit, employers are anxious to have you work as long as they can get you to. Worse you might get them to let you work less hours for less money, but the job pressure will make it difficult to work just the agreed upon hours. But you will still get to enjoy the lower salary. ========================= <1womanscyberperso...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8beu68$m15$1@nnrp1.deja.com... My personal fantasy, pipe dream though it may be, is to earn enough money per hour to be able to put in less than 40 hours a week. (although 40 isn't *too* bad, it's when you start working more than this say 50, 60, 80 hours a week that is the real insanity (unless of course you reach that rare state of bliss where your work *is* a passion)). And why shouldn't I have this fantasy of mine? Ok, moneys a bit tight, but I do earn enough to live on now. It really doesn't take all *that* much to live on (although I suppose it's more than some people make - and also if you have kids and all that, *that* I guess can get expensive). Futhermore I believe I have the potential to get higher salaries if I put in the effort (and it takes quite a bit). But this is not motivating to *me* if all it means is more stuff (home ownership, a new car, blah, blah - although if that's what *you* want go for it, to each his own ...) however if I can use the money to be able to work less that *is* appealing to *me*, however it may be just another pipe dream.... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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In article <20000323153904.04905.00000...@ng-ft1.aol.com>, hyprre...@aol.com (HyprRel23) wrote: >What > happens when you DO get home? >I don't know about anyone > else, but after work, I slog uninspiredly through a gym workout,
In a gym or at home? Might there be opportunities to meet people if it's a gym, or is it the same old regulars? > eat dinner, > putz around on the computer a little, and head for bed. Sounds nasty. >Work really does take up an inordinate amount of time for > people......I really think the workweek should be substantially
lessened. The original labor movement made the 8-hour day and the 40-hour workweek a major issue. Now that we're told machines can do things better, cheaper, faster, it seems like a reduction to 20 hours is in order. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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>What can a high techie looking for love really do career wise? >If L.A turns out to not be a good place to live for a shybe, where is?
I doubt that *any* of America's large metropolitan areas are going to be ideal environments for a shy guy. Most large cities in this country by their very definition PROMOTE shyness, and you have to wage a major effort to get things rolling in the social department. It's all too easy to be shy and isolated in a big city. Far too easy. First of all, like you mention, you have the grueling, demanding slave labor we call "making a living." Second, just to get to and from your place of employment in a traffic-clogged joint like LA, Miami, Atlanta, Washington DC, Chicago and the like, you shave 1-2 hours easy off your day, sitting in isolation (rush hour traffic). Millions of people around you everyday, but still alone.......this is the big city reality for a shybie. What happens when you DO get home? Sitting in an office all day is exhausting........in fact, I feel more tired after a day in an office spent sitting on my butt than I do after a 50-mile long bike ride. What are you supposed to do after you go to work, to meet people? I don't know about anyone else, but after work, I slog uninspiredly through a gym workout, eat dinner, putz around on the computer a little, and head for bed. What else do you have time for? Work really does take up an inordinate amount of time for people......I really think the workweek should be substantially lessened. What are the benefits to getting things done fast, faster, and fastest? Why does society feel this almost obsessive-compulsive need to move ever faster? Something has got to give.
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Why don't you skip the free dinner one night a week and volunteer at a homeless shelter? Get your compassion back and rejoin the land of the living. You don't get free dinners in real life. lm Imran Peerbhai <peerb...@emily.oit.umass.edu> wrote in message
news:38d9b50b@oit.umass.edu... - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -> Greetings All, > of my being into my core. City life has turned me slightly jaded. I > used to care about the homeless, the impoverished, and people I felt were > wronged. Now, I just whish they were out of my face. Everywhere you go,
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In article <38d9b...@oit.umass.edu>, peerb...@emily.oit.umass.edu (Imran Peerbhai) wrote: > Greetings All, > Long time, no see.
Likewise, buddy! Good to see you dropping in here - I enjoyed reading your posts from the past! Location has an effect on your happiness. It has a huge effect, actually. In fact, there's a whole field of psychology, environmental psychology to be exact, that studies this stuff. I am nearly finished a full-credit course on it, taught by a world-renowned professor, Peter Suedfeld. He is featured many times in Winifred Galagher's book, "The Power of Place". The theme of the book is that our surroudings shape our emotions and where we live has a huge influence on our life. > Car==Not Bus. > Bus has new people(you never talk to them, but once in a while, an > accidental conversation arises.)
While the conveniences of a car certainly are worthwhile - particularly for long distance commuting and travelling on road trips, I find taking the bus for short commutes or going around the city is more beneficial. For one, if you're going to places like campus, the airport, downtown, or other frequently served routes, the bus service is frequent, and you don't lose too much time by riding instead of driving. Also, as you mention, there are chances for conversation and meeting people. And, it can be fun! For instance, in the morning commute to campus, I enjoy talking to one of my friends in the theatre faculty - and we get a chance to relax, joke, and catch up on things we've been doing. When he's not around, I occasionally strike up conversations with the bus drivers. One guy, who is the regular driver on the morning bus, is nicknamed 'Speedy' because he drives the damn thing so fast! Sometimes I have to hang on for dear life as he careens around corners and whallops over road-bumps. This regular driver has gone on vacation, though, so we have a slower guy now Also, taking the bus, especially on short city trips, is environmentally friendly, and it saves the stress and hassle of fighting traffic, finding parking spots, and saving money on today's ridiculously high gas prices, which are forecast only to get higher. (I heard they would break 85 cents a litre by July, as OPEC is cutting fuel exports - in the States, I'm sure that translates to more than $2 a flippin' gallon) Back last year when I took the car, I found it to be quite lonely commuting back and worth, and many times I'd get depressed. The radio helped, but country music only does so much good I used to love work, now I trudge through > the days, realizing that work is a trap.
Perhaps, if you feel unfulfilled in your job - why not look for another one that you feel more happy in doing? Or take some time to volunteer at homeless shelters when you're not working. You're certainly not alone, though, if you feel you are trapped in your job. I was talking to a guy from the States who came up to visit for the weekend, and he said that something like 60% of Americans hate their jobs, perhaps more. Although I'm not sure of the exact source for this stat, there are a fair percentage of people who feel trapped in their jobs, and are at a loss as to how to find fulfillment in them. Perhaps pick up a copy of Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin's book, "Your Money or Your Life" as they have entire chapters devoted to the very issues you are struggling with, and they can articulate advice and solutions to your problem much better than I ever could. Also, if you do decide to get another job, then I recommend Richard Bolles' book, "What Color is Your Parachute" for a good overview on the steps to finding meaningful employment. You may need to question whether the security of the corporation is worth it. Sure, the stock options, paycheque, benefits, and all that are good, but if you feel unfufilled and unhappy at your work, is it worth your time to show up at the door every morning? I might love my job, but where > am I meeting somebody to spend the rest of my life with?
Well, I feel similarily with this 'special someone' issue, however I try not to dwell on it too much. The way I look at it, is that I have my entire 20's to date women, and get involved in serious relationships, that something may develop. If it goes, excellent, however if I am "doomed" to a single life, then I figure I'll still make the most of it. The way I look at it, is that I plan on having a whole bunch of fun from now until a long time - and maximizing my experiences within a given time frame. I've worked real hard to overcome shyness, and now that I feel comfortable enough to relate to others and develop some sort of a life plan, I say, let's have some fun! I have friends tell me that I would make a woman extremely happy, and for some reason I believe that. Also I've gone on dates with about a half-dozen people or so, so there are successes in that regard. And I try not to make too many social comparisons, to other people and society. When people make comments about my 'love life' or how I've not dated that often, or 'when will I marry and settle down' I find a way to put some humor into how that is a valid lifestlye, but I need not feel that I *HAVE* to pursue that route. I can't imagine > quitting my job. I have stock options, a good salary, good benefits, etc... > Yet every day, I feel that I lose a little more of my soul. The > emptiness that is lonliness is a darkness, creeping from the very outside > of my being into my core.
I really feel for you here - and I've felt similarily in the past, albeit not as deeply as you have. But, still, 'little depressions' I go through really get me to look at myself and what I want out of life. I realize that I have what it takes to turn things around, and set goals in congruence with my life missions statement. Whenever this stuff happens, I immediately get off my butt and set a goal, say running around the neighborhood. In your case, I would seriously encourage you to examine just how worth it your job is, and the security of the corporation is, to you. So what if you have the flippin' stock options. If you feel that your life is empty and you are struggling, then what is having stock in some Fortune 500 corporation going to do to change things around for you? You may have the security of a paycheque, but if deep inside you feel insecure, then the money really doesn't do much to change how you feel about yourself. I encourage you to take a look at yourself, and really examine your values, and find out just what it is you want in life - so that you can truly be happy. If it means quitting the job, then do it. Even though the economy is hot, Well, this is arguable. The economy may be hot for the richest 5% of the nation and the wealth that it carries around - i.e. the corporate elite - but in terms of the general public welfare, that may not be the case. Not everybody is sharing in this 'economic boom', despite the fact that the Federal Reserve is going so far as to boost interest rates. What use is a techie in > a town that grows corn?
Genetically engineered corn crops Just kidding. > What is life like in Los Angeles, especially as it pertains to living
I don't know. I really wouldn't recommend it. I had a chance to visit it back in February, and found there to be lots of smog, traffic, suburban sprawl, not to mention it was very busy. But then again, I never really saw the whole city, so that is a biased judgment on my part. > To anyone willing to help this lost soul find his heart, I thank you.
Hope this post helps. All I can say is that I really feel for you, and I hate to see you down like this. I really enjoyed your posts in the past, and I hope you bounce back and continue to enjoy life like you did before! Steve -- "God pours contempt on nobles and disarms the [corporate elite]." – Job 12:21 Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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Filed under: Voluntary simplicity
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