BLAME SOCIETY
Question:
In article <Pine.LNX.4.05.10003021755540.2757-100…@yoda.fdt.net>, Eric Pepke <pe…@gnv.fdt.net> wrote: > Have you given up zealotry?
In the sense of raging against the corporate machine, yes. Although I am still convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that corporate power exists, and there is a hidden establishment that is sick in our society – I feel that I am not called to militate directly against it (i.e. be a zealot), but rather to focus on a more PRINCIPLE-centred, problem-solving approach to working towards a more healthy society. Based on some of the reading I did, I find my views resonate most with the authors of "Your Money or Your Life" and the author of "Timelock: How Life Got so Hectic and What You Can Do About it". The predominant view behind these authors is that of a "what can be done to solve the problem" and a less "us vs. them" reactive approach. As an example, consider voluntary simplicity. Hardly a radical act by any means – it simply involves keeping one’s consumption in check, and focusing on social and environmental awareness. In other words, learning how to consume responsibly. By doing this, it benefits the planet and helps form community, something which we are all seriously starving for. The principles behind this lifestlye include sustainability, balance, wholeness, and integrity. Now, one can argue that simple living can be used as a vehicle of militation and/or doing an end run against the powerful – "I’ll show ‘em corporate bastards what a bunch of sham they are, and hit ‘em where it hurts". However, this misses the point entirely of making a pro-active choice, and taking responsibility. By raging against the machine, or having that zealous mindset, it focuses energy on the enemy, thus it is a reactive approach. It’s not genuinely free and authentic, because zealotry is essentially counter-dependent. Also, in conjunction with my faith, this is not exactly appropriate Christian behavior – i.e. although the corporate elite may have initiated a strike, retaliating or fighting back is two wrongs not making a right. In other words, it has to do with ‘turning the other cheek’. So, as a long-winded answer, I’ve given up zealotry and am moving on towards a more principle-centred and practical / applied approach to this perspective. — "God pours contempt on nobles and disarms the mighty." – Job 12:21 Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Its just so complicated to try to relate to all of this shyness thing.I told a couple of the friends in the days when I used to have friends that I couldn’t see myself ever getting married and that I would end up alone and they came up with all the usual crap that it would just sort of happen one day.Wrong.Well it happened to them but not me.But is this just negative thinking,lurking in my head from an early age stopping me being normal,not allowing anything good to happen? No I dont think it is.From all the evidence I can find over the last ten years I think its alot more than that.Everything points to the fact that normal people,especially kids and teenagers hate anyone different. This includes fat kids,ugly kids,kids with glasses,clever kids but also shy or quiet kids so from about 5 years old I learnt that most of the other kids didnt like me,thought I was weird and avoided me.Basically this meant that I was traumatised and withdrew even more and was no better 11 years later when I left school(went college for 2 days but couldn’t face 2 more years of lonliness) All this means that shy people feel that they are fighting against the world from an early age and become outsiders never one of the hip trendy kids in their gangs,liked by everyone,living a normal life. I guess what I’am just trying to say is that society blames shy people for not going out or forcing themselves to do things but really if you act nervous you get treated like shit ,so THATS THE REASON YOU DONT GO OUT.Most people arn’t understanding.They laugh at you.Now someone explain how you get over that? Bye and good luck
Response:
Hi This is not an unusual experience at all that you are relating. I don’t know if one does get totally over it, but one can grow beyond the worst of it. There has been a lot of advice on that posted here, some good, some not so good, some downright horrible. You will have to sift through it. Look for stuff that conveys optimism while not being naive about the negatives in society or in life. Also remember that there is no magic method, but it involves stuff in you. Yes, society has had much to do with how you feel, but it is still YOU has a certain view of things, and that view has to change to one inspiring confidence (but not a blind confidence that shoves stuff under the rug). Sometimes it is a lonely thing, persistence in overcoming this when people treat you badly and are unsupportive. But then sometimes the poisonous imagination, often fueled by the past, is at work too, convincing you that everyone is out to get you or is against you, even when and where it is not so. Learn to recognize this when it happens. It is a tool that you will need, this ability to recognize when your imagination is interpreting events or forecasting doom. Then again sometimes it’s real. There are times. That’s when you need a pep talk. I don’t have all the answers either. Not making that claim. But those are a couple things. Tom
Response:
Yes it is society’s fault and I hope the end of human existence is truly apon us
Response:
Soul Surgeon (SoulSurg…@webtv.net) wrote:
: Yes it is society’s fault and I hope the end of human existence is truly : apon us I couldn’t help but read this thread with interest – and as someone who used to be a ‘zealot’ (well, not exactly, but my views were heading in that direction) I am quite familiar with the ‘blame society’ arguments. On the one hand, there’s no denying that we live in a society of conflict. I am convinced that corporate power is real, and an establishment is present which benefits the elite, at the expense of those marginalized. I.e. there is huge disparity between the rich and the poor: while CEOs make over millions of dollars in annual salaires, there are people living in third world countries making less than a dollar a day. Including a family whom I and 15 others served a couple of weeks back in Mexcio – just 15 miles from the U.S. border!!!!!! And, of course there are issues of sweatshop labor where capital is supposedly "cheaper" overseas. But on the other hand, such disparity and unfairness is nothing new – and all throughout history we have seen the presence of powerful establishments fueled by marginalized people. This, to me, suggests the problem lies more in human nature, specifically a fallen human nature. What I’ve learned is that two wrongs don’t make a right. I.e. if evil exists, then rebelling against it, or ‘raging against the machine’ is fighting evil with evil. And it doesn’t solve the problem – because we’ve time and time again we’ve seen in human history. When one evil empire does eventually collapse, it doesn’t take long for another one to arise. Thus, rebelling against society, although seemingly justified because the evil was initiated first, may solve the problem temporarily, but not in the long term. Because of our fallen human nature, we’re bound to screw it up somehow. I suppose I’m arguing for grace and forgiveness more than anything else. As in, I think it’s important to make changes to society, and to do what we can do make the world a more livable place – I’m doing this with my involvement in social justice and simple living / voluntary simplicity causes. But, such changes need to be done out of genuine love and compassion. Not to say they are ‘peaceful’, after all even the most simple opposition to the corporate elite will surely involve confrontations with the poweful, but the motivations need to be out of love. Because, in the end, we’re all flawed, and the way I look at it is that while I utterly detest corporate power and what it has done to society and the environment – there is also a power craving part in myself, so in some ways my ‘Macheovieli’ may be projected onto what I detest. Thus, I think it’s best to forgive myself and others too.
Response:
On 29 Feb 2000, Steve Ruelle wrote: > I couldn’t help but read this thread with interest – and as someone who > used to be a ‘zealot’ (well, not exactly, but my views were heading in > that direction) I am quite familiar with the ‘blame society’ arguments.
Have you given up zealotry? -Eric "It’s actually kind of fun to do the impossible." -Walt Disney
Response:
> Soul Surgeon <SoulSurg…@webtv.net> wrote: > : I dont think ALL of civilization will fall apart, maybe Western > : Civilization but most of the rest of the world is not as dependent on > : oil as we are. > But we feed them,
Do we really? > and of course, our agriculture depends heavily on the > black fuel.
– For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
Response:
Soul Surgeon <SoulSurg…@webtv.net> wrote:
: I dont think ALL of civilization will fall apart, maybe Western : Civilization but most of the rest of the world is not as dependent on : oil as we are. But we feed them, and of course, our agriculture depends heavily on the black fuel. BTW, have you visited the frugal newsgroup lately? — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
Bloody Viking wrote <You could get your wish if civilisation falls apart after global oil production maxes out> I dont think ALL of civilization will fall apart, maybe Western Civilization but most of the rest of the world is not as dependent on oil as we are.
Response:
"jack" <j…@england101.junglelink.co.uk> wrote: …(snipped out whole interesting thing)… >I guess what I’am just trying to say is that society >blames shy people for not going out or forcing themselves >to do things but really if you act nervous you get treated >like shit ,so THATS THE REASON YOU DONT GO OUT.Most people >arn’t understanding.They laugh at you.Now someone explain >how you get over that?
I totally know what you mean. People are unfair. And then some jackass tells you to "get over it". The hell with that, man, I really want to look better, feel better, and make EVERYONE understand where I’m coming from. But NO ONE understands. And people STILL treat you like shit, even if you are trying to act "normal". At least that’s what I would have said a year ago. I’ll tell you – once you figure out how to say "enough is enough, fuck what the world thinks, all that matters is me me me", and devote yourself to looking for happiness instead of waiting for understanding, everything falls into place. It’s hard for me to say that and for you to believe it, but it’s possible. No one can teach you how to do that, you just have to figure it out, and it IS tough to figure out. I remember years ago.. I’m filipino and I was getting into a filipino club at college because I wanted to try and meet people and get out of shyness, etc.. so why not go to a place where at least I won’t run into race problems? I totally was trying to be nice and make conversation and all, but lots of the meetings people would shrug me off. I wasn’t acting shy and I wasn’t some outsider, I was one of THEM goddammit, and they still give me the cold shoulder. What the fuck? And they all seemed to meet and then get together, but if I tried to be all nice and talk, try to get in on the group, they’d either look away or act all nice for a second and then turn away and ignore me. A couple people acted nice to me, but no way would anyone really want to even hang with me or whatnot. So I was a shy loner and even in my own kind I was treated like toxic waste. How shitty is that? My ass was actually TRYING to make conversation, trying to be social, and this is how it works out? I look back on this and think with the wisdom I have now… what really happened? Maybe I acted wrong. But you know what – I still don’t feel any different about that situation. Yes, they were assholes and so are many other people, but you don’t have to take it. I don’t anymore. I almost died from depression, I don’t have the time or energy to care about shit like that anymore. All I should care about are me and anyone who respects me. I told myself over and over "everyone else’s opinions don’t matter" until I believed it. And you know what? Most people in the world, even non- shy people, haven’t figured that out yet. But once you do, even halfway believing that takes a load off. No, I don’t blame society for my shyness, that’s my boat. But society can be cruel if you are. Don’t wait up for jackasses to respect you, look for people who will treat you right and surround yourself with them. I believe this to be one of the many ways to curing it. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Soul Surgeon <SoulSurg…@webtv.net> wrote:
: Yes it is society’s fault and I hope the end of human existence is truly : apon us You could get your wish if civilisation falls apart after global oil production maxes out! If you want a rather grisly site about this, this eco-doom site is hard to beat: http://www.dieoff.com — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
Filed under: Voluntary simplicity
Leave a Comment
XHTML: You can use these tags: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>
TrackBack URL | RSS feed for comments on this post.