Filed under: Student activism
Question:
orm,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,tal k.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.philosophy.objec tivism,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,al t.fan.dan-quayle,misc.taxes,ta lk.politics.guns,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.f lame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton Followup-To: misc.survivalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republica n,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.newt-g ingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.g-gordon-lidd y,alt.politics.re alk.politics.guns,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt. flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton Organization: West Coast Computer Products Distribution:
: . : Hi : : Talking from a country where redistribution of wealth and high taxes are : suppose to make everybody equal and have the same possession …. all : should have nothing in the end as this is civil service at it’s best…… : well, I have a few thought on the unequal distribution of wealth……. : : When I was in school we had two groups (actually more but two will do) : …… those that took care of their academic work and tried to get decent : marks……. you called us nerds and then we had those that would rather : fail a year than miss football practice … you called yourselves jocks. : You had all the fun, the girls and the status. : : After school we nerds went on the study and you launched your sport : sport as well. When I passes my first year….. you dropped out as studies : were not for you and started working. : : When I had to walk to class, you showed me your new subcompact car that you : I graduated, you showed me the flat that you bought…… : : When I started working you made fun of the fact that I earned less than you : : After working for 12 months, you were upset because we were earning the : same and "I have more experience" was heard repeatedly. : : you get nasty and expect the government to make good for your stupidity by : : You see, when I struggled to make ends meet as a student. I was investing : myself in my future for the long term while you couldn’t see past the : current. : : Well, my friend, that is the way the cookie crumbles….. short term gain : : Life sucks, hey !!! : : Aubrey : : South Africa : +–+–+ …Well, obviously I did a mistake. When you had your BS and went to get a job, I continued and made my Ph.D. – Now I’m over-qualified and can’t get a job… Dan
Response:
: orm,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,tal k.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.philosophy.objec tivism,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,al t.fan.dan-quayle,misc.taxes,ta : lk.politics.guns,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.f lame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton : Followup-To: misc.survivalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republica n,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.newt-g ingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.g-gordon-lidd y,alt.politics.re : alk.politics.guns,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt. flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton : Organization: West Coast Computer Products : Distribution:
: : . : : Hi : : : : Talking from a country where redistribution of wealth and high taxes are : : suppose to make everybody equal and have the same possession …. all : : should have nothing in the end as this is civil service at it’s best…… : : well, I have a few thought on the unequal distribution of wealth……. : : : : When I was in school we had two groups (actually more but two will do) : : …… those that took care of their academic work and tried to get decent : : marks……. you called us nerds and then we had those that would rather : : fail a year than miss football practice … you called yourselves jocks. : : You had all the fun, the girls and the status. : : : : After school we nerds went on the study and you launched your sport : : sport as well. When I passes my first year….. you dropped out as studies : : were not for you and started working. : : : : When I had to walk to class, you showed me your new subcompact car that you : : I graduated, you showed me the flat that you bought…… : : : : When I started working you made fun of the fact that I earned less than you : : : : After working for 12 months, you were upset because we were earning the : : same and "I have more experience" was heard repeatedly. : : : : you get nasty and expect the government to make good for your stupidity by : : : : You see, when I struggled to make ends meet as a student. I was investing : : myself in my future for the long term while you couldn’t see past the : : current. : : : : Well, my friend, that is the way the cookie crumbles….. short term gain : : : : Life sucks, hey !!! : : : : Aubrey : : : : South Africa : : +–+–+ : …Well, obviously I did a mistake. When you had your BS and went : to get a job, I continued and made my Ph.D. – Now I’m over-qualified : and can’t get a job… : Dan Whose fault is that? Should have been paying attention to what was going on around you. Rich
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. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Talking from a country where redistribution of wealth and high taxes are suppose to make everybody equal and have the same possession …. all should have nothing in the end as this is civil service at it’s best…… well, I have a few thought on the unequal distribution of wealth……. When I was in school we had two groups (actually more but two will do) …… those that took care of their academic work and tried to get decent marks……. you called us nerds and then we had those that would rather fail a year than miss football practice … you called yourselves jocks. You had all the fun, the girls and the status. After school we nerds went on the study and you launched your sport sport as well. When I passes my first year….. you dropped out as studies were not for you and started working. When I had to walk to class, you showed me your new subcompact car that you I graduated, you showed me the flat that you bought…… When I started working you made fun of the fact that I earned less than you After working for 12 months, you were upset because we were earning the same and "I have more experience" was heard repeatedly. you get nasty and expect the government to make good for your stupidity by You see, when I struggled to make ends meet as a student. I was investing myself in my future for the long term while you couldn’t see past the current. Well, my friend, that is the way the cookie crumbles….. short term gain Life sucks, hey !!! Aubrey South Africa
+–+–+ America’s soap opera: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater Iconoclast Greg Swann Writes: http://www.primenet.com/~gswann/ Waco Holocaust Museum: http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/ National Organization for Non-Enumeration: http://www.ime.net/none/ W. Beck’s Anthology: http://www.mindspring.com/~wjb3/free/essays.html Yahoo! Maps: http://maps.yahoo.com/yt.hm?FAM=yahoo&CMD=GEO&SEC=geo Welcome to Rancho Runnamukka: http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/ Internet Infidels "The Secular Web": http://www.infidels.org/ Download’n Fool: http://www.shareware.com/SW/Search/Index/ Why do dictators succeed to power? For the same reason one can kick a dog a dozen times before it bites back.
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Question:
Do tell Stevo. Just what did our author do to become a fugitive?
Response:
Welp… Kyle has forged again… man, I love "Full Headers". Plus, this bonehead thinks he can stop us by mailbombing a group of us and forging posts on USENET? Yeah, RIGHT! — | | /)| Homepage |( / )| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/6949 |( ((( /_) | </ / ))) (\ _/ / "Communication is the | _/ / ///) / difference between being / _/ a friend and an acquaintance" _ / / / | | / / | |
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as a minority i agree. we should all be able to play be the same rule regardless of color, race, etc. however, as case after case has shown, there is no level playing field.
HI GERALDO mc2
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WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SHIT DOING ON THE "ALT.PAGAN" NEWSGROUP??? CAN’T YOU FOLKS BE MORE CAREFUL IN SELECTING YOUR NEWSGROUPS TO CROSSPOST??? GET THE FUCK OFF "ALT.PAGAN" IF YOU DON’T HAVE ANYTHING PERTAINING TO PAGANISM OR RELIGION IN GENERAL TO TALK ABOUT!!! THANK YOU!!! Skeeter
Response:
Do tell Stevo. Just what did our author do to become a fugitive?
According to his own pen but don’t quote me because I read his drivel on alt.war.vietnam with little interest. During the Vietnam war he destroyed records and did other illegal stuff. He served a long stretch in jail and was released to face other, old unresolved charges. He keeps writing to the Whitehouse, demanding clemency. No one listens because in addition to being a spineless coward out to save his own skin, he is a 53yo illiterate alchoholic. He is in exile in Sweden. Steve http://www.ibmc.com/fossils
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There is no level playing field even among those of the same race. Some are born to poor, uneducated families others to wealthy families; some are born to parents who love and cherish them and do everything possible to help them grow to be strong, independent adults others are born to parents who don’t really care about them, though they keep them around; etc. That is just how life is. If we would just get to the point that we show respect and courtesy to each other and treat each other as we would like to be treated (I know, it’s corny, but I have tried to live that way and I believe it is correct), then, perhaps, we could become a little more "color blind." Each of us can only answer for him/herself, not for anyone else. — Angelmoon Traffic is very heavy at the moment, so if your are thinking of leaving now, you’d better set off a few minutes earlier. Automobile Assn. spokesman on the radio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sunday, June 09, 1996, Angel Rivera wrote… as a minority i agree. we should all be able to play be the same rule regardless of color, race, etc. however, as case after case has shown, there is no level playing field. Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.angst,alt.atheism,alt.california,alt.censorship,alt.conf
ig,alt.conspiracy,alt.fashion,alt.feminism,alt.pagan,alt.peeves,alt.securi ty.pgp,alt.tasteless,soc.penpals,alt.society.sovereign – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The truth is that a few years ago a student was kicked out of the Univ. at Ann Arbor MI. for attempting to start a white students union. There were student unions of all shades and sexual choices already present. Funny how only he was a racist. That’s like how here on the campus of FSU, the Student Government turned down a request for a "Black Senate". My advice is don’t put a black man ahead of someone solely because of color! Affirmative Action has turned into "blacks have priority", where it should be hiring and school admissions based on qualifications! If I was a manager of a computer store in a primarily-black neighborhood, who would I hire? The most qualified! If I was an admissions counselor at a state university, who would I admit? The most qualified! If I was Athletic Director of a school, who would I recommend for admission? Best GPA and performance! If I had to deny a black kid a college education because his GPA was low but he was an athlete, I would! Color is supposed to mean NOTHING! Another instance: I applied for a job at a local retail shop. What did the app say? Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. My point is this: we need to stop looking at color as basis of admissions, hiring, etc… and stop "Black History Month". Replace it with "Multi-cultural month". Trust me, I am not a racist. I have best friends who are of different nationalities, and would hang out with any one of them! But if I’m going to be required to make a 3.0 to get into college while a black kid only needs a 2.0… then I would cry RACISM! Or, being passed over for a job because I’m a white man. Todd * hers mine! :=) (((IRC: FunLovin))) All this since 1/18/96! * Visit my homepage (pics of both of us) http://www.afn.org/~afn32685 * Communication is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance
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: There is no level playing field even among those of the same race. Some : are born to poor, uneducated families others to wealthy families; some : are born to parents who love and cherish them and do everything possible : to help them grow to be strong, independent adults others are born to : parents who don’t really care about them, though they keep them around; : etc. That is just how life is. If we would just get to the point that we To some degree, of course, this is true. But it’s quite a fatalistic approach to modern life. We should always strive to better what needs to be bettered, not be content with mediocrity. As for ‘race’, it is quite clear that regardless of economic status, the ‘color’ of a man will determine to a large degree how he will be perceived, judged, and treated. It’s a pretty concrete construct that is far easier to tackle than, say, the individual incompetence of an individual mother raising an individual child. Hence … : show respect and courtesy to each other and treat each other as we would : like to be treated (I know, it’s corny, but I have tried to live that way : and I believe it is correct), then, perhaps, we could become a little more : "color blind." Each of us can only answer for him/herself, not for anyone : else. : — : Angelmoon If only we could. This is an ideal we should strive for, but is not however, a viable mechanism to reach it. Human nature is not innately good as some have said (but neither is it innately evil). As experiments with pure capitalism have shown, the ‘Invisible Hand’ simply does not exist. Outside forces must constantly tinker here and there to keep the motion fluid. Sincerely, TM
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Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.angst,alt.atheism,alt.california,alt.censorship,alt.config ,alt.conspiracy,alt.fashion,alt.feminism,alt.pagan,alt.peeves,alt.security. pgp,alt.tasteless,soc.penpals,alt.society.sovereign The truth is that a few years ago a student was kicked out of the Univ. at Ann Arbor MI. for attempting to start a white students union. There were student unions of all shades and sexual choices already present. Funny how only he was a racist.
That’s like how here on the campus of FSU, the Student Government turned down a request for a "Black Senate". My advice is don’t put a black man ahead of someone solely because of color! Affirmative Action has turned into "blacks have priority", where it should be hiring and school admissions based on qualifications! If I was a manager of a computer store in a primarily-black neighborhood, who would I hire? The most qualified! If I was an admissions counselor at a state university, who would I admit? The most qualified! If I was Athletic Director of a school, who would I recommend for admission? Best GPA and performance! If I had to deny a black kid a college education because his GPA was low but he was an athlete, I would! Color is supposed to mean NOTHING! Another instance: I applied for a job at a local retail shop. What did the app say? Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. My point is this: we need to stop looking at color as basis of admissions, hiring, etc… and stop "Black History Month". Replace it with "Multi-cultural month". Trust me, I am not a racist. I have best friends who are of different nationalities, and would hang out with any one of them! But if I’m going to be required to make a 3.0 to get into college while a black kid only needs a 2.0… then I would cry RACISM! Or, being passed over for a job because I’m a white man. Todd * hers mine! :=) (((IRC: FunLovin))) All this since 1/18/96! * Visit my homepage (pics of both of us) http://www.afn.org/~afn32685 * Communication is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance
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This is an obvious fake. The perpetrator is trying to make it seem that opponents of affirmative action are whiny, selfish losers. However, it’s overdone — real racists aren’t usually _that_ stupid. (NOt to mention that it’s possible to oppose affirmative action without being a racist, at least theoretically.) But making the alleged sender look dishonest — by having him apparently comment on a spam he had sent from another address, as if he was two entirely different people — was a very good touch. Dan Goodman
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Article 1 of 1 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.angst,alt.atheism,alt.california,alt.censorship,alt.config ,alt.conspiracy,alt.fashion,alt.feminism,alt.pagan,alt.peeves,alt.security. pgp,alt.tasteless,soc.penpals,alt.society.sovereign The truth is that a few years ago a student was kicked out of the Univ. at Ann Arbor MI. for attempting to start a white students union. There were student unions of all shades and sexual choices already present. Funny how only he was a racist.
That’s like how here on the campus of FSU, the Student Government turned down a request for a "Black Senate". My advice is don’t put a black man ahead of someone solely because of color! Affirmative Action has turned into "blacks have priority", where it should be hiring and school admissions based on qualifications! If I was a manager of a computer store in a primarily-black neighborhood, who would I hire? The most qualified! If I was an admissions counselor at a state university, who would I admit? The most qualified! If I was Athletic Director of a school, who would I recommend for admission? Best GPA and performance! If I had to deny a black kid a college education because his GPA was low but he was an athlete, I would! Color is supposed to mean NOTHING! Another instance: I applied for a job at a local retail shop. What did the app say? Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. My point is this: we need to stop looking at color as basis of admissions, hiring, etc… and stop "Black History Month". Replace it with "Multi-cultural month". Trust me, I am not a racist. I have best friends who are of different nationalities, and would hang out with any one of them! But if I’m going to be required to make a 3.0 to get into college while a black kid only needs a 2.0… then I would cry RACISM! Or, being passed over for a job because I’m a white man. Todd * hers mine! :=) (((IRC: FunLovin))) All this since 1/18/96! * Visit my homepage (pics of both of us) http://www.afn.org/~afn32685 * Communication is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.angst,alt.atheism,alt.california,alt.censorship,alt.confi g,alt.conspiracy,alt.fashion,alt.feminism,alt.pagan,alt.peeves,alt.security .pgp,alt.tasteless,soc.penpals,alt.society.sovereign The truth is that a few years ago a student was kicked out of the Univ. at Ann Arbor MI. for attempting to start a white students union. There were student unions of all shades and sexual choices already present. Funny how only he was a racist. That’s like how here on the campus of FSU, the Student Government turned down a request for a "Black Senate". My advice is don’t put a black man ahead of someone solely because of color! Affirmative Action has turned into "blacks have priority", where it should be hiring and school admissions based on qualifications! If I was a manager of a computer store in a primarily-black neighborhood, who would I hire? The most qualified! If I was an admissions counselor at a state university, who would I admit? The most qualified! If I was Athletic Director of a school, who would I recommend for admission? Best GPA and performance! If I had to deny a black kid a college education because his GPA was low but he was an athlete, I would! Color is supposed to mean NOTHING! Another instance: I applied for a job at a local retail shop. What did the app say? Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. My point is this: we need to stop looking at color as basis of admissions, hiring, etc… and stop "Black History Month". Replace it with "Multi-cultural month". Trust me, I am not a racist. I have best friends who are of different nationalities, and would hang out with any one of them! But if I’m going to be required to make a 3.0 to get into college while a black kid only needs a 2.0… then I would cry RACISM! Or, being passed over for a job because I’m a white man. Todd
The affirmative action "free ride" is soon to be over in California come November. It is and has been nothing but legalized racism and should never have been initited in the first place. Keep an eye on just which special interest groups get the most pissed off about this. It will be interesting. -=BajaRat=- Visit the Infamous "Wetback Clearing outHouse"…… Great Anti *ILLEGAL* Immigration Links Updated regularly with the latest pro-illegal BS http://www.hooked.net/users/junior1/wetback/cholo.htm Pinche La Raza
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In ending up this stuff on morals and intellectual snobbery I would like to quote the words of a very old and wonderful blackman Willy! Willy used to sit on the steps with us kids in the neighbourhood. Willy was always there. This very old black man. And I remember to this very day the words he often said to us kids on the hot, humid summer nights of New York City. Willie would say: "Watchit boy, this nigger ain,t got nothin never from rich whiteman!" Oh Willie, you wonderful old man–how right you were… All these years we sat with you on the steps and that was what you were trying to hammer into our heads. Willie how fucking right you were. I think Willie deserves a statue right next old Abe Lincoln. Because this man new what the bottom line in the fight between the have,s and the has not,s as Willie use to put. Willie with those few words new more about class struggle then all the fucking liberals alive today. Hats off to Willie a great black old man! <http://www.ios.com/~dizzyman/haha/ Read the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara,Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my Cristalball.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Malecki) writes: In ending up this stuff on morals and intellectual snobbery I would like to quote the words of a very old and wonderful blackman Willy! Willy used to sit on the steps with us kids in the neighbourhood. Willy was always there. This very old black man. And I remember to this very day the words he often said to us kids on the hot, humid summer nights of New York City. Willie would say: "Watchit boy, this nigger ain,t got nothin never from rich whiteman!" Oh Willie, you wonderful old man–how right you were… All these years we sat with you on the steps and that was what you were trying to hammer into our heads. Willie how fucking right you were. I think Willie deserves a statue right next old Abe Lincoln. Because this man new what the bottom line in the fight between the have,s and the has not,s as Willie use to put. Willie with those few words new more about class struggle then all the fucking liberals alive today. Hats off to Willie a great black old man!
Well, well…It’s the criminal in Sweden. Thought you could outrun the vets on alt.war.vietnam? The man that posted the above is a convicted felon and presently a fugitive from justice. He lives in Sweden because he would be arrested the minute he stepped on American soil. Steve http://www.ibmc.com/fossils
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.angst,alt.atheism,alt.california,alt.censorship,alt.confi g,alt.conspiracy,alt.fashion,alt.feminism,alt.pagan,alt.peeves,alt.security .pgp,alt.tasteless,soc.penpals,alt.society.sovereign The truth is that a few years ago a student was kicked out of the Univ. at Ann Arbor MI. for attempting to start a white students union. There were student unions of all shades and sexual choices already present. Funny how only he was a racist. That’s like how here on the campus of FSU, the Student Government turned down a request for a "Black Senate". My advice is don’t put a black man ahead of someone solely because of color! Affirmative Action has turned into "blacks have priority", where it should be hiring and school admissions based on qualifications! If I was a manager of a computer store in a primarily-black neighborhood, who would I hire? The most qualified! If I was an admissions counselor at a state university, who would I admit? The most qualified! If I was Athletic Director of a school, who would I recommend for admission? Best GPA and performance! If I had to deny a black kid a college education because his GPA was low but he was an athlete, I would! Color is supposed to mean NOTHING! Another instance: I applied for a job at a local retail shop. What did the app say? Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. My point is this: we need to stop looking at color as basis of admissions, hiring, etc… and stop "Black History Month". Replace it with "Multi-cultural month". Trust me, I am not a racist. I have best friends who are of different nationalities, and would hang out with any one of them! But if I’m going to be required to make a 3.0 to get into college while a black kid only needs a 2.0… then I would cry RACISM! Or, being passed over for a job because I’m a white man. Todd * hers mine! :=) (((IRC: FunLovin))) All this since 1/18/96! * Visit my homepage (pics of both of us) http://www.afn.org/~afn32685 * Communication is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hi, Let me say that I follow the words of Martin Luther King, and judge a man by the content of his character, and the content of his character alone. Now for the politically incorrect part of this post. Hey! Where’s White History Month, where’s The United Caucasian College Fund. Finally, I feel the term "white" is derogatory, please refer to me as ‘Euro-American’, and if you don’t , I’ll have you arrested for ethnic intimidation, a two year felony. On another note, I have noticed that African-American comedians get some pretty good laughs by imitating the voice and speech inflections of the Euro-American, how well do you think the reverse would be accepted? My guess is not well at all, what’s wrong with that picture? There’s an old saying that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and when 12% of the population of this country (African-Americans) can influence such a large portion of the legislative, and judicial bodies of their country, I give them credit. It’s my opinion that Euro-Americans must start "squeaking" loud and long, if we don’t, we wont get ‘oiled’, and it’s our own faults. I *ax* you [ 
], do the above statements ring true? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 iQEVAwUBMboQOv5NUcDLsl+VAQH7VAf+JEh20j1Fuc1S3RgXlrK08rtVD2RtgsgU U8K640KjAkOxPMGUiPF0S1huNtZaB4ffbXY3F2Wj8nfkmDCUzoHblSbwfFl9rbs2 GtMGIzheUs3apqy2hVd7AiHLVd9npDKJ7KlD4jcxtgFlFGn1wDDPSIGvDT388iZF Z7flKrSp/LoCzrRMnRvuZBb3M4qVHoUjMhlA4uZtXNuRue2vi1r/tp5SJO4HjfYg bzHj/A5g600xTO56mU6l+dydRdNXNyopEjy7a7Wf0NEjF+cOjmbkC15L2OWE6Hb8 o3RGnir67lMUqtV7VgSGKhWM4FoQNkB7MMUy7+TQO/wbQG/dnv8sog== =2lsO —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
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Hey Martika Your email address got wiped, contact me ASAP and I’ll tell you what happened. Ralph
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as a minority i agree. we should all be able to play be the same rule regardless of color, race, etc. however, as case after case has shown, there is no level playing field. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.angst,alt.atheism,alt.california,alt.censorship,alt.confi g,alt.conspiracy,alt.fashion,alt.feminism,alt.pagan,alt.peeves,alt.security .pgp,alt.tasteless,soc.penpals,alt.society.sovereign The truth is that a few years ago a student was kicked out of the Univ. at Ann Arbor MI. for attempting to start a white students union. There were student unions of all shades and sexual choices already present. Funny how only he was a racist. That’s like how here on the campus of FSU, the Student Government turned down a request for a "Black Senate". My advice is don’t put a black man ahead of someone solely because of color! Affirmative Action has turned into "blacks have priority", where it should be hiring and school admissions based on qualifications! If I was a manager of a computer store in a primarily-black neighborhood, who would I hire? The most qualified! If I was an admissions counselor at a state university, who would I admit? The most qualified! If I was Athletic Director of a school, who would I recommend for admission? Best GPA and performance! If I had to deny a black kid a college education because his GPA was low but he was an athlete, I would! Color is supposed to mean NOTHING! Another instance: I applied for a job at a local retail shop. What did the app say? Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. My point is this: we need to stop looking at color as basis of admissions, hiring, etc… and stop "Black History Month". Replace it with "Multi-cultural month". Trust me, I am not a racist. I have best friends who are of different nationalities, and would hang out with any one of them! But if I’m going to be required to make a 3.0 to get into college while a black kid only needs a 2.0… then I would cry RACISM! Or, being passed over for a job because I’m a white man. Todd * hers mine! :=) (((IRC: FunLovin))) All this since 1/18/96! * Visit my homepage (pics of both of us) http://www.afn.org/~afn32685 * Communication is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Let me say that I follow the words of Martin Luther King, and judge a man by the content of his character, and the content of his character alone. Now for the politically incorrect part of this post. Hey! Where’s White History Month, where’s The United Caucasian College Fund. Finally, I feel the term "white" is derogatory, please refer to me as ‘Euro-American’, and if you don’t , I’ll have you arrested for ethnic intimidation, a two year felony. On another note, I have noticed that African-American comedians get some pretty good laughs by imitating the voice and speech inflections of the Euro-American, how well do you think the reverse would be accepted? My guess is not well at all, what’s wrong with that picture? There’s an old saying that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and when 12% of the population of this country (African-Americans) can influence such a large portion of the legislative, and judicial bodies of their country, I give them credit. It’s my opinion that Euro-Americans must start "squeaking" loud and long, if we don’t, we wont get ‘oiled’, and it’s our own faults. I *ax* you [ ], do the above statements ring true?
IT’S A DAMN GOOD THING YOU PGP SIGNED THIS MESSAGE OTHERWISE I WOULDN’T BE SURE IT WAS YOU WHO WAS THE TOTAL USELESS CRACKER mc2
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Distribution: : : IT’S A DAMN GOOD THING YOU PGP SIGNED THIS MESSAGE OTHERWISE I WOULDN’T BE : SURE IT WAS YOU WHO WAS THE TOTAL USELESS CRACKER : : mc2 LISTEN to THE DEUCE or we’ll HAVE TO get GRANDMA FUCKING DEUCE to COME OUT of RETIREMENT, QUIT RAPING PAUL ESS and WIPE THE PAVEMENT with your SNOTTY NOSE. The Deuce’s Personal Stalker
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Hi, Let me say that I follow the words of Martin Luther King, and judge a man by the content of his character, and the content of his character alone. It’s my opinion that Euro-Americans must start "squeaking" loud and long, if we don’t, we wont get ‘oiled’, and it’s our own faults. I *ax* you [ ], do the above statements ring true?
Yes! Your statements ring LOUD AND TRUE! Keep it UP! About MLK’s statement, I have heard that it is not an original thought with him. Like JFK’s "Ask not what your country can do for you, etc," is a phrase from ancient Rome. I would like to know of any information where the "content of character" quote came from. If you have any please let me know.
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LISTEN to THE DEUCE or we’ll HAVE TO get GRANDMA FUCKING DEUCE to COME OUT of RETIREMENT, QUIT RAPING PAUL ESS and WIPE THE PAVEMENT with your SNOTTY NOSE. The Deuce’s Personal Stalker
IT’S ABOUT TIME I HAD SOMETHING TO CALL MY OWN mc2
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It’s my opinion that Euro-Americans must start "squeaking" loud and long, if we don’t, we wont get ‘oiled’, and it’s our own faults. I *ax* you [ ], do the above statements ring true? Yes! Your statements ring LOUD AND TRUE!
You GET THE FEET. I’ll GET THE ARMS. GOING TO EAT DEAD CRACKERS TONIIIIIIIIIIGHT mc2
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Let me say that I follow the words of Martin Luther King, and judge a man by the content of his character, and the content of his character alone. It’s my opinion that Euro-Americans must start "squeaking" loud and long, if we don’t, we wont get ‘oiled’, and it’s our own faults. I *ax* you [ ], do the above statements ring true? Yes! Your statements ring LOUD AND TRUE! Keep it UP! About MLK’s statement, I have heard that it is not an original thought with him. Like JFK’s "Ask not what your country can do for you, etc," is a phrase from ancient Rome.
Not ancient Rome: Oliver Wendell Holmes, 1884 Leron Russell Briggs (1904–speaking of his alma mater) and Warren G. Harding, 1916 said something similar–not as well phrased. I would like to know of any information where the "content of character" quote came from. If you have any please let me know.
From Martin Luther King’s "I have a Dream Speech" Washington, August 28 1963. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." The reference on this is Bartlett’s Quotations–which is very assiduous about chasing down sources, so it appears that MLK originated the quote.
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Well, well…It’s the criminal in Sweden. Thought you could outrun the vets on alt.war.vietnam? The man that posted the above is a convicted felon and presently a fugitive from justice. He lives in Sweden because he would be arrested the minute he stepped on American soil. Steve http://www.ibmc.com/fossils
This site is a haven for felons and immigrants who like to cause trouble! This is great! **laughing** Anyone who is in trouble with the law invariably ends up here. While I’m not condoning anyones acts it sure does make for interseting reading. Alpha Delta Phi University Of Western Ontario Canada
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Re: Manipulation of racial issues by the ruling Banking Oligarchy Ruling Banking Oligarchy that runs and manipulates stupid massess of Americans is USING racial issues to pit one group of people against another. BTW, "groups" of people have existed for millions of years — that grouping, by itself, should not cause confrontation. So what if someone is black or white ? Who really gives a damn ? Well, Oligarchy GIVES a damn! They make "political hay" out of it, and use it to pit one group against another. It is Oligarchy that AMPLIFIES their DIFFERENCEES and than creates and promotes additional FRICTION between those "groups". Can you not see that FINALLY ?!! Can you not see that Establishment media ("ABC News Nightline – Ted Koppel") all of a sudden AMPLIFIES racial tensions and EXAGERATES so-called "hatreds" ? Can you not see that the one and the only major purpose of the O.J. Simpson trials was to CREATE racial division and tension between white and black Americans? Can you not see that ? Qui bono ? (Latin for: WHO GAINS ?) Banking Oligarchy gains — that’s who! Who gains when American Patriots, defenders of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights fall into a trap of picturing themselves as "Christian radicals" or "white racists" ? Banking Shaisters gain — that’s who ! Do not mix "peaches and apples". Leave racial questions aside, leave them away from discussion about Constitution, Religion etc. and vice versa — leave discussion about Constitution away from racial issues. Racial issues have existed for thousands of years, and they shall not go away. However, Oligarchy is accelerating EXPLOITATION and AMPLIFICATION of racial issues, in order to hurt the stupid massess. One must not fall into that trap.
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Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.angst,alt.atheism,alt.california,alt.censorship,alt.config ,alt.conspiracy,alt.fashion,alt.feminism,alt.pagan,alt.peeves,alt.security. pgp,alt.tasteless,soc.penpals,alt.society.sovereign The truth is that a few years ago a student was kicked out of the Univ. at Ann Arbor MI. for attempting to start a white students union. There were student unions of all shades and sexual choices already present. Funny how only he was a racist.
That’s like how here on the campus of FSU, the Student Government turned down a request for a "Black Senate". My advice is don’t put a black man ahead of someone solely because of color! Affirmative Action has turned into "blacks have priority", where it should be hiring and school admissions based on qualifications! If I was a manager of a computer store in a primarily-black neighborhood, who would I hire? The most qualified! If I was an admissions counselor at a state university, who would I admit? The most qualified! If I was Athletic Director of a school, who would I recommend for admission? Best GPA and performance! If I had to deny a black kid a college education because his GPA was low but he was an athlete, I would! Color is supposed to mean NOTHING! Another instance: I applied for a job at a local retail shop. What did the app say? Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. My point is this: we need to stop looking at color as basis of admissions, hiring, etc… and stop "Black History Month". Replace it with "Multi-cultural month". Trust me, I am not a racist. I have best friends who are of different nationalities, and would hang out with any one of them! But if I’m going to be required to make a 3.0 to get into college while a black kid only needs a 2.0… then I would cry RACISM! Or, being passed over for a job because I’m a white man. Todd * hers mine! :=) (((IRC: FunLovin))) All this since 1/18/96! * Visit my homepage (pics of both of us) http://www.afn.org/~afn32685 * Communication is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance
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Question:
Questions on Social Activism Feb 23rd,1996 Hi,I’m Masashi Tajiri,an university student majoring in policy management in Japan. I have some questions on social activism. Recently,I’m researching on it(especially in U.S & Japan). However,I’m not so sure what can be definition of the Social Activism, and what can be the real atction seen as social activism. I’m doing research with American friend to present on this topic at a student conference. The reason why we focus on social activism is that thinking about this issue can give us a hint to consider "relation between individulas & society" in the ear of grobalization and localization(glocalization). I heard that social activism is popular in the states,for example various kinds of volunteer activities,demonstrations in HIV or minority issues ,etc. So,anyone who knows well on this topic,could you help me to answer followings, (1) What can be a definition of social activism? (2) What kind of impact does social activism have to the society? There’s too much to ask here. Any suggestion and opinion would be appreciated.Thank you! — 田 尻 雅 Masashi Tajiri 総合政策学部
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Questions on Social Activism Feb 23rd,1996 Hi,I’m Masashi Tajiri,an university student majoring in policy management in Japan. I have some questions on social activism. Recently,I’m researching on it(especially in U.S & Japan). However,I’m not so sure what can be definition of the Social Activism, and what can be the real atction seen as social activism. I’m doing research with American friend to present on this topic at a student conference. The reason why we focus on social activism is that thinking about this issue can give us a hint to consider "relation between individulas & society" in the ear of grobalization and localization(glocalization). I heard that social activism is popular in the states,for example various kinds of volunteer activities,demonstrations in HIV or minority issues ,etc. So,anyone who knows well on this topic,could you help me to answer followings, (1) What can be a definition of social activism? (2) What kind of impact does social activism have to the society? There’s too much to ask here. Any suggestion and opinion would be appreciated.Thank you! — 田 尻 雅 Masashi Tajiri 総合政策学部
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Question:
but Draft Registration goes on, and costs the US taxpayers millions of dollars! And military spends milions on advertising to entice people to enlist. And the JROTC program is a good way to gut local influence on the academic curriculum in high schools. Sorry, but it seems you have totally missed the point.
How, prey tell, does the JROTC "gut" local influence on acedemic curriculum. Can you cite ONE example? Do you believe that we should have a military?
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We want gun-free schools, right? A public meeting at Garfield Community Center will feature a national speaker on the topic "Militarism in the Schools and the Push for Junior ROTC in the High Schools." The meeting will be held at 7:30 pm Monday evening, January 22 and is sponsored by the Seattle Draft and Military Counseling Center (SDMCC) and other community groups. The Garfield Community Center is at 23rd and East Cherry (2323 E Cherry St.). The speaker will be Clayton Ramey, Peace and Disarmament Coordinator for the Fellowship of Reconciliation, Nyack, NY. Ramey began his activism for social change 26 years ago when as a sophomore student ROTC cadet he resigned from the corps in protest against the United States’ war against the Vietnamese people. He later became a leader of the campus African-American student union, and after college taught at both the Urban Studies Institute of LaSalle in Philadelphia and at the program for students at G ermantown High School. Ramey has spoken and conducted workshops on social justice and community organizing issues throughout the United States and in Africa and Asia. His essays have appeared in The Nonviolent Activist, Fellowship Magazine, Peace News, and the Syracuse Peace Journal. The Seattle Draft and Military Counseling Center (SDMCC) was established during the Vietnam war by representatives of churches, the University Friends Meeting, the Fellowship of Reconciliation, National Lawyers Guild, and the American Civil Liberties Union. The Center, then and now, offers potential draftees information about alternatives to military enlistment. The Center also responds to requests from men and women in the armed forces who seek discharge as conscientious objectors. For additional information, contact: SDMCC (the Seattle Draft and Military Counseling Center (789-2751) – — — SDMCC – Seattle Draft and Military Counseling Center 225 N 70th St. Seattle, WA 98103 (206) 789-2751
Response:
but Draft Registration goes on, and costs the US taxpayers millions of dollars! ^^^^ There is draft, and there is voluntary enlistment. We have the latter. Are you saying that you don’t thnk there should be enrollment in the military?
there is a difference between the draft (not happening) and draft registration (which continues, to the financial detriment of taxpayers). I hope you understand the difference. i do. No, I do not support registration, nor a draft should it start. enlist. And the JROTC program is a good way to gut local influence on the academic curriculum in high schools. Are you saying that the JROTC determines, say history, math or english curriculum in high schools? Can you site an example?
Take a look at the official curriculum of the JROTC! Read it. Yes, the JROTC has rewritten history, and ignored other parts. There are plenty of examples, if you take the time to read it. Sorry, but it seems you have totally missed the point. ….which was precisely my point….
yes, I agree, you have totally missed the point. — — Stef oO0o oOOo —- —- uu ……
Response:
I hate to disturb your "lava lamp" view of the world, but here’s a secret: THE DRAFT IS OVER!
but Draft Registration goes on, and costs the US taxpayers millions of dollars! And military spends milions on advertising to entice people to enlist. And the JROTC program is a good way to gut local influence on the academic curriculum in high schools. Sorry, but it seems you have totally missed the point. — — Stef oO0o oOOo —- —- uu ……
Response:
I hate to disturb your "lava lamp" view of the world, but here’s a secret: THE DRAFT IS OVER! but Draft Registration goes on, and costs the US taxpayers millions of dollars!
^^^^ There is draft, and there is voluntary enlistment. We have the latter. Are you saying that you don’t thnk there should be enrollment in the military? enlist. And the JROTC program is a good way to gut local influence on the academic curriculum in high schools.
Are you saying that the JROTC determines, say history, math or english curriculum in high schools? Can you site an example? Sorry, but it seems you have totally missed the point.
….which was precisely my point….
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Question:
Roger Wiegand Has the Guts to Confirm the Truth That K12 Net Rules Hardly Exist for Its Readers as I’ve Argued.
David– To be perfectly clear, I think you’re a twit, and have behaved as an ass through all of this discussion. I have no interest or desire to support you or your cause, indeed, I think you are in the wrong. Please don’t use my name. I think that subnets that are not part of the Big 8 (like K12, bionet, clarinet, etc) can and should make their own rules, and that users should respect them. My post was intended only to point out to the K12 administrators that they haven’t done a very good job of educating the larger community they reach. That doesn’t excuse your ongoing tirade of off-topic posts. — Thanks, Roger
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[ Article crossposted from k12.ed.science,k12.ed.math,alt.activism,misc.legal,alt.society.civil-libert y,k12.chat.senior,k12.chat.junior,k12.chat.teacher ] [ Author was David Kaufman ] Distribution: world Roger Wiegand Has the Guts to Confirm the Truth That K12 Net Rules Hardly Exist for Its Readers as I’ve Argued. God bless you Roger for speaking up. I wish the other readers who can support my arguments will come forward to help correct the injustices against me and others. Otherwise, the k12 Net will keep us in its back room made hells for creative and evolving people. Thanks Roger. Roger’s Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
(above cut) : So what *IS* K12NET??? I’ve searched with reasonable diligence for a FAQ : or charter and have come up empty. Where are they kept?? (A pointer in : the "rules for posting" would help) From where many of us sit these groups : LOOK like Usenet, even if they’re not, so the confusion should not be : unexpected. How does this group differ from all of the other subnets that : make up Usenet? (I am familiar with Bionet, so the concept that there are : subnets with different rules is not forign, this one is the only one I : know of that gets so bent out of shape by a few almost on-topic : inappropriate messages) I read this group because I’m interested in K12 : science education and do some volunteering for science fairs and classroom : demonstrations. Being neither student nor teacher am I outside of your : purpose? (below cut) : But seriously– some of us would like to participate and would like to : follow the rules (and understand the system) but in the year I’ve read : this group you haven’t made it very easy. Please tell us where/how to find : out about K12NET. (and Fidonet–I reember hearing about it many years ago, : but aside from some unhelpful notes on which modems to use I haven’t been : able to find a FAQ for what it is or how it works either. : — : — : Thanks, : Roger Be good. Do good. Be one. And go jolly Roger. You deserve It. Thanks again.
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Question:
HEY everyone out ther! Editor of Duke University’s TOBACCO ROAD, the only progressive topical magazine for undergraduates, seeks to find answers about student activism. For those in the Duke community wishing to respond: am i wrong? For those in the general audience: do you think activism exists on campus for our generation? or you can submit essays on activism for possible publication… i don’t know what else to say… if interested in discussing this issue please respond! Mike Rouland
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student activism: doesn’t exist!
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Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The world can be bizarre … For the first time in memory, Western Australian secondary students are getting mobilised. Over the past few months, there have been sporadic student strikes over issues such as compulsory uniform rules. Tomorrow, there will be a very large rally in the Perth city square. Not bad for a constitutency that had no formal or funded on- or cross-campus representative organisations. But just when one starts to think that radicalism is on the rise (as a University student activist who has tried in vain to organise a large number of mass rallies in WA, I know that WA is currently one of the most conservative parts of Australia – a relatively conservative country – rendering the ‘mobilisation’ all the more remarkable), the quicksand deepens. This strike is to protest about lack of ’services’ at schools. The problem? Currently, teachers are engaged in industrial action with a right-wing Education Ministry. They are currently imposing work bans on work out of school hours. The students are telling their teachers to get back to work, and that they [the teachers] are ‘behaving like children’. The implication is that students’ extra-curricular activity comes first, and teachers’ pay and working conditions are irrelevant.Industrial action = tantrum. Sounds just like the ruling class to me. Reactionary radicalisation or potential for mobilisation? I’m depressed… Just like the education bureaucrats who are trying to downplay the students’ actions as immature, you are talking as if all the students were thinking the same things for the same reasons. Perhaps some are pissed off with the teachers for imposing work bans, but others are rock solid behind the teachers’ struggle, calling on the government to improve wages and conditions so that teachers will lift work bans. Just because you’ve had trouble organising mass rallies, doesn’t means the people are conservative. Maybe they don’t want to attend a mass rally demanidng an immediate end to Pabloite treachery in the Fourth International, but give them something they feel deeply enough about, like the native forests (ten thousand mrached in their defence two weeks ago), like their education, and they’ll respond. Tertiary students in Australia are, it is true, very conservative, but it has always been so. Few are involved in activism in any great degree, most come from priviledged backgrounds and upper income brackets, and consider their education too important to waste time thinking about where they, or the world are heading. But they are only a small part of the population. you will find few tertiary students at forest rallies, or out in the bush blocking the bulldozers. The secondary students are responding to an issue they feel affects them deeply. Don’t belittle their efforts by accusing them of being manipulated. Their capacity for analysis and constructive thought might suprise you! — Bryce Moore, book editor (sport & murder) music broadcaster (Difficult Listening) Opinions expressed do represent those of the management.
We are not all conservative, thanks all the same. Stuart Hatter, Student Union President, Central Queensland Uni.
Response:
The world can be bizarre … For the first time in memory, Western Australian secondary students are getting mobilised. Over the past few months, there have been sporadic student strikes over issues such as compulsory uniform rules. Tomorrow, there will be a very large rally in the Perth city square. Not bad for a constitutency that had no formal or funded on- or cross-campus representative organisations. But just when one starts to think that radicalism is on the rise (as a University student activist who has tried in vain to organise a large number of mass rallies in WA, I know that WA is currently one of the most conservative parts of Australia – a relatively conservative country – rendering the ‘mobilisation’ all the more remarkable), the quicksand deepens. This strike is to protest about lack of ’services’ at schools. The problem? Currently, teachers are engaged in industrial action with a right-wing Education Ministry. They are currently imposing work bans on work out of school hours. The students are telling their teachers to get back to work, and that they [the teachers] are ‘behaving like children’. The implication is that students’ extra-curricular activity comes first, and teachers’ pay and working conditions are irrelevant.Industrial action = tantrum. Sounds just like the ruling class to me. Reactionary radicalisation or potential for mobilisation? I’m depressed…
Response:
Question:
: : (ek_bill_frasca) writes:
: : College Campus Activism Activities Aren’t Dead!!! : You’re absolutely right! And I’m so glad to hear it!!! : I just read that the Young Republicans have a WWW site at BERKELEY, of : all places! : I never thought I’d see the day THAT would happen. The discredited : PC bleeding-heart big-spending liberal policies of the sixties, : seventies, and eighties are going to be history! : Hooray for the 104th Congress! Appropriate conclusion. For decades, the college campus was usually the place where disgruntled holdovers from the CPUSA tried to scratch out a last stand by taking advantage of an environment that allowed them a captive audience. Pretty much starting in the early sixties within certain circles of on site communist sympathisers against the war in southeast asia, and growing, more recently into univerity wide bashing of anything relating to mainstream western culture; it boils down to an historic control within the campus by left wing ideologues. Recently we see another movement taking hold within the college campus environment. As you pointed out earlier, the assorted Republican clubs now organizingithin t the university system in high profile spirit has allowed a new voice. It’s a brave new world… : D. Citron * Always opinionated, never politically correct. : | Can you trust a government that subsidizes tobacco and tries to | : | ban vitamins to make intelligent choices about YOUR health care? | : "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary : safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" … Benjamin Franklin : * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : "Live long and prosper — without government interference!" : …Mr. Spock, before the NBC censors got to him, stardate 1966 : * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : Dear Slick Willie: Yeah, I feel your pain! Sure!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!! : * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Response:
| : : (ek_bill_frasca) writes: | | : : College Campus Activism Activities Aren’t Dead!!! | | : You’re absolutely right! And I’m so glad to hear it!!! | | : I just read that the Young Republicans have a WWW site at BERKELEY, of | : all places! | | : I never thought I’d see the day THAT would happen. The discredited | : PC bleeding-heart big-spending liberal policies of the sixties, | : seventies, and eighties are going to be history! Actually, the Young Republicans have been at Berkeley since at least 1964 when the Free Speech Movement started. One of the reasons it was so successful is because every political student group from the YR to the Communists had been banned from political speech on campus, and united in their opposition to the rule. I attended Berkeley from ‘86 to ‘90 and remember them being there then. | : Hooray for the 104th Congress! | | Appropriate conclusion. For decades, the college campus was usually | the place where disgruntled holdovers from the CPUSA tried to | scratch out a last stand by taking advantage of an environment that | allowed them a captive audience. Pretty much starting in the early sixties | within certain circles of on site communist sympathisers against the | war in southeast asia, and growing, more recently into univerity wide | bashing of anything relating to mainstream western culture; it | boils down to an historic control within the campus by left wing | ideologues. Recently we see another movement taking hold within | the college campus environment. As you pointed out earlier, the | assorted Republican clubs now organizingithin t the university system | in high profile spirit has allowed a new voice. They may be more energized right now, but they’ve been around that whole time. Also, the last election wasn’t so much a factor as the 70 years of leftwing failures. | Vernon Imrich | market failure, n. The inabilty of the | | MIT OE, Rm 5-329b | market to recover from a blow by | | Cambridge, MA 02139 | intervention. (the Exchange) |
Response:
: (ek_bill_frasca) writes:
: College Campus Activism Activities Aren’t Dead!!! You’re absolutely right! And I’m so glad to hear it!!! I just read that the Young Republicans have a WWW site at BERKELEY, of all places! I never thought I’d see the day THAT would happen. The discredited PC bleeding-heart big-spending liberal policies of the sixties, seventies, and eighties are going to be history! Hooray for the 104th Congress! D. Citron * Always opinionated, never politically correct. | Can you trust a government that subsidizes tobacco and tries to | | ban vitamins to make intelligent choices about YOUR health care? | "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" … Benjamin Franklin * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Live long and prosper — without government interference!" …Mr. Spock, before the NBC censors got to him, stardate 1966 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dear Slick Willie: Yeah, I feel your pain! Sure!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Response:
: (ek_bill_frasca) writes:
: : : College Campus Activism Activities Aren’t Dead!!! : : : Campus Affiliates Now Being Formed! : : : We The People, an organization of citizens and student’s from : accross : : the nation are organizing on the college campus level to take part in : : the issues that the NEW 104′th Congress controlled by Right Wing : : Christians who are going to declair war on STUDENTS,MINORITIES,and : the : : poor.A womans right to abortion is threatended, homosexuals are being : : threatened, minorities are being threatened, and the 1’st ammendment : is : : threatened. : : : : : *— Our Insurgent Effort Continues—-* : : : Don’t you think that 35 years of left wing whining and forcefed : social engineering experiments have done enough damage to society. : The whining has to end sometine.. : What about right wing war? What about the spread of nuclear weapons that : are no longer needed? What about increases in a millitary that are no : longer needed. Remember the russian threat may not be over, but the : likelyhood of a russian attack is next to nill. Who’s worried about Russia? I don’t think The former Soviet Union was ever a real physical threat. My concern is the nuclear material black market available to any third world banana republic fruitcake. At least in the formere Soviet Union there was a central control over who had their hands on the buttons, and an ‘off the record’ gentlemans agreement between both powers involving certain controls,etc… : : For More Information on campus organizing, : : Call or Write; : : : We The People : : 295 3′rd Street : : Oakland CA,94607 : : 1-800-426-1112 : : 1-510-836-3273 : : : Thank You, : : Philip B.Kirschner : : "Why is is that those who are anti fur are, more often than not, pro : choice; and those who organize for the fight against aids are among : the : first to celebrate lifestyles responsible for it’s cause and spread"? : Sir, : If you know anything about medicine and science then learn this. Aid’s : is not a gay disease. Aids is a disease transmitted by unprotected sex, : by striaght, or gay couples, and intravenous drug abuse.So the lifestyle : is not the cause just people not using protection period. My suggestion was not targeting the Gay community. Unfortunately any promisuous sexual behavior is dangerous at this point in time. In fact, promiscuity is not even an issue here, as the virus has spread within certain groups to a point where even those with few partners over an extended time period are at risk. It’s a frightening disease, and what makes it more of a nightmare is the simple fact that medical science at this point in time hasn’t a clue. All the money in the world will not change the fact that we have not reached the appropriate time with respect to medical science evolution to expect a cure, or even an adequate treatment for AIDS and for the other assorted viral conditions, for at least a handful of generations..( Unless the uss enterprise timewarps bacxt to @1994) : Thank You, : Philip B.Kirschner : We The People : 1-800-426-1112 :
Response:
Question:
(did you call it or what?) 
I didn’t call it yet. Wait for the final verdict. If the mainstream of the administration and college press bury it, you can safely assume that that was the case.
From the front page of the _Oberlin Review_: "Asian student takes responsibility for grafitti" Naturally, if the "mainstream" places a stamp of approval on something, it must be true.
His point was that if the college tries to bury the whole thing, then this rumor is probably the reason. Not that whatever the mainstream says is true…more the opposite. Read what he wrote again. This is so obvious that i’ll probably get flamed for saying it ( ) but if Mr. Bayes were so concerned about being left out of the "all people of color" meeting regarding racist grafitti, why not go anyway?
Because I don’t enjoy placing myself in danger in order to make a point. Announce his own intention to do what he could to prevent repetition of such events? Unless he is somehow being prevented from attending the meeting, his complaint is specious and, ironically enough, even hypocritical.
Will you please go back and read exactly what I wrote and explain how I was being hypocritical? I don’t remember "complaining"…I just remember calling attention to something which I found to be hypocritical. The only way I could be hypocritical by not attending the meeting would be if I had announced that everybody should go to the meeting. An update on what has happened since I posted first time: The weekly paper came out. It detailed some of the speeches which were made at the rally on Monday. White people were not allowed to speak at the rally. When they tried to do so, they were told "You had your chance to speak. What you have to say is painted on the wall." (Some of the words on the wall were "good chink = dead chink"). If this isn’t racism, well, I guess Lucifer is building a snowman right about now… The two crosses which were supposedly burned were actually supports for straw effigies, which were burned to celebrate Halloween and the Bike Derby (an annual Oberlin "sporting" event). The leftover wooden crosses (which were slightly charred) quickly taken down, and those who were responsible published a public letter of apology to those who were inadvertantly offended. Back to the meeting: A white student actually did attempt to attend the meeting, which was held in a public room in the Student Union. He simply sat in the room, not being intentionally disruptive, but stating that he wanted to hear teh opinions which were being expressed. He was dragged bodily out of the room because he was white by one professor and one student amidst cries of "you racist" and the like. Later in the week, somebody spraypainted on the wall beside his door "Racists must die", with a big arrow pointing to his door. Also, somebody taped a typed note to his door "If you press charges, it’ll be the last thing you’ll ever regret", presumably referring to his option of pressing charges against the two who dragged him from the room. Last (hopefully the last, anyway), somebody lit a trash can on fire outside his room, presenting him with a wall of flames at 4:30 AM. He shut the door and waited for the fire department to get him out. That’s about all I can remember right now. If you wish to attribute any opinions or statements to me, please include the quote where I say them. People have been reading too much into what I say lately. –joe — — "recursive: adj; see recursive" /
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|That’s about all I can remember right now. If you wish to attribute |any opinions or statements to me, please include the quote where I say |them. People have been reading too much into what I say lately. Not unusual around here. — Mob rule isn’t any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain’t charity if you are using someone else’s money. Wilson’s theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we’re all related.
Response:
From the front page of the _Oberlin Review_: "Asian student takes responsibility for grafitti" An update on what has happened since I posted first time: [update follows in his post]
[Sigh.] Oberlin *has* gotten crazier. — Mike Melnyk Cambridge, MA Unemployed and loving it.
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This is WONDERFUL. Not for the poor guy who was so victimized, but for the way it shows "multiculturalism" to be the vicious, anti-white, hate-mongering that it is. One incident like this destroys _at least_ two years of mandatory "diversity" educational flim-flam. p.s. If someone will post an address for the poor guy whose door was set on fire, I’d like to send him a check to have it repainted any scheme he wants. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (did you call it or what?) I didn’t call it yet. Wait for the final verdict. If the mainstream of the administration and college press bury it, you can safely assume that that was the case. From the front page of the _Oberlin Review_: "Asian student takes responsibility for grafitti" Naturally, if the "mainstream" places a stamp of approval on something, it must be true. His point was that if the college tries to bury the whole thing, then this rumor is probably the reason. Not that whatever the mainstream says is true…more the opposite. Read what he wrote again. This is so obvious that i’ll probably get flamed for saying it ( ) but if Mr. Bayes were so concerned about being left out of the "all people of color" meeting regarding racist grafitti, why not go anyway? Because I don’t enjoy placing myself in danger in order to make a point. Announce his own intention to do what he could to prevent repetition of such events? Unless he is somehow being prevented from attending the meeting, his complaint is specious and, ironically enough, even hypocritical. Will you please go back and read exactly what I wrote and explain how I was being hypocritical? I don’t remember "complaining"…I just remember calling attention to something which I found to be hypocritical. The only way I could be hypocritical by not attending the meeting would be if I had announced that everybody should go to the meeting. An update on what has happened since I posted first time: The weekly paper came out. It detailed some of the speeches which were made at the rally on Monday. White people were not allowed to speak at the rally. When they tried to do so, they were told "You had your chance to speak. What you have to say is painted on the wall." (Some of the words on the wall were "good chink = dead chink"). If this isn’t racism, well, I guess Lucifer is building a snowman right about now… The two crosses which were supposedly burned were actually supports for straw effigies, which were burned to celebrate Halloween and the Bike Derby (an annual Oberlin "sporting" event). The leftover wooden crosses (which were slightly charred) quickly taken down, and those who were responsible published a public letter of apology to those who were inadvertantly offended. Back to the meeting: A white student actually did attempt to attend the meeting, which was held in a public room in the Student Union. He simply sat in the room, not being intentionally disruptive, but stating that he wanted to hear teh opinions which were being expressed. He was dragged bodily out of the room because he was white by one professor and one student amidst cries of "you racist" and the like. Later in the week, somebody spraypainted on the wall beside his door "Racists must die", with a big arrow pointing to his door. Also, somebody taped a typed note to his door "If you press charges, it’ll be the last thing you’ll ever regret", presumably referring to his option of pressing charges against the two who dragged him from the room. Last (hopefully the last, anyway), somebody lit a trash can on fire outside his room, presenting him with a wall of flames at 4:30 AM. He shut the door and waited for the fire department to get him out. That’s about all I can remember right now. If you wish to attribute any opinions or statements to me, please include the quote where I say them. People have been reading too much into what I say lately. –joe — — "recursive: adj; see recursive" /
Response:
[deletia of old copy] Why? The story could very well have been true but so what? The intent of such stories is to suggest that racism isn’t a real problem anymore. It suggests that racism is so scarce that it has to be invented.
But so what? Tell me what it really means or what you can conclude from it. That there are provocateers should not be news. That each case has to be individually examined should not be news. <<<< end reinsert So can it be understood that you believe people shouldn’t be warned against the possibility of hoaxes? You believe that groups of cowardly sheep should be able to cause a disturbance that will get them more bennies whenever they haven’t been attacked recently? "You know guys, we should really raise awareness of discrimination against us. There hasn’t been any hate graffiti against us in twenty years here. Let’s put some up!"
Find such a place please. This is the sort of logic your "hush rule" encourages. I find it
The bogosity reaches the limit. I NEVER said he couldn’t/shouldn’t post the tripe he did. I just responded to it to put it in its perspective. You are simply too dense to get it. Any libertarians out there to help me on this? disgusting.
–Wade
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[deletia of old copy] Why? The story could very well have been true but so what? The intent of such stories is to suggest that racism isn’t a real problem anymore. It suggests that racism is so scarce that it has to be invented.
So can it be understood that you believe people shouldn’t be warned against the possibility of hoaxes? You believe that groups of cowardly sheep should be able to cause a disturbance that will get them more bennies whenever they haven’t been attacked recently? "You know guys, we should really raise awareness of discrimination against us. There hasn’t been any hate graffiti against us in twenty years here. Let’s put some up!" This is the sort of logic your "hush rule" encourages. I find it disgusting. — Douglas C. Meier | Many words have been granted to me, and Northwestern University, ACNS | some are wise, and some are false, but Standard Disclaimer Applies | only three are holy: "I will it!"
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I try to expose that crap when I see it because it is insidious. My satire didn’t imply that his story was wrong – it exposed the subtle trend he was pushing for what it was.
Also note, then, that the instance I cited was the first major case of hate-graffiti on campus (not including life-hating graffiti) during the previous 4+ years of the occurence. And the name is Meier, not Bayes. — Douglas C. Meier | Many words have been granted to me, and Northwestern University, ACNS | some are wise, and some are false, but Standard Disclaimer Applies | only three are holy: "I will it!"
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Douglas Meier) writes: That "someone" that sprayed the graffiti may well be members of the target group. For example, a certain group (whose name I won’t mention) at a certain university (whose name I also won’t mention) sprayed graffiti in a few areas of campus that was indicative of those who degrade the group. This was then used as a reason to give more money, protections, etc. to the group and its members, since they were obviously targeted by some evil nasty perpetrators. I just heard (it’s still in the rumor stage, but we’ll see…) that someone found out that it was an asian female who painted the grafitti. Again, I don’t know this for a fact, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. Ah, Oberlin. Dear sweet Oberlin. (did you call it or what?)
I didn’t call it yet. Wait for the final verdict. If the mainstream of the administration and college press bury it, you can safely assume that that was the case. — Douglas C. Meier | Many words have been granted to me, and Northwestern University, ACNS | some are wise, and some are false, but Standard Disclaimer Applies | only three are holy: "I will it!"
Response:
If Bayes was trying to find an accurate picture of racism on campus, why would he pick the exceptional case of provocateerism? It’s always the same. People present one anecdote of an extreme case and wish for people to draw conclusions. It panders to a standard weakness in most people where we tend to draw quick and ready conclusions from limited data. Put another way, some people selectively remember or present that data which supports their cause.
But whoever said Mr. Bayes was trying to portray an accurate picture of racism on campus, i.e., one which epitomizes racism on college campuses across the U.S.? You seem to imply that that was his intention. I think not. In his original posting he was pointing out how contradictory it is to chant sloagans against racism, then restrict a meeting to only people-of-color. He wasn’t trying to draw grandiose conclusions about campus race relations, but just give an example of what he thought was wrong or misguided. (I jumped in because one of the early follow-up posts suggested that maybe the graffiti a political ploy.) — Mike Melnyk Cambridge, MA Unemployed and loving it.
Response:
<<generally sick parody deleted Couldn’t you have asked for evidence without such a snide, knee-jerk response? Why? The story could very well have been true but so what? The intent of such stories is to suggest that racism isn’t a real problem anymore. It suggests that racism is so scarce that it has to be invented.
The intent is to show that some of the most egregious examples of of unabashed racism are not legit, thus the conclusion that people draw from these incidents – that racism is resurging – is without proof. Yes, racism exists; hate crimes in Boston, particularly against Jews, are on the rise. But such bogus incidents make things look worse than they really are. I too have read of an racial harassment incident where one or more people-of-color were the real instigators. In fact, I’ll try to dig up a reference in the next day or two. But so what? Tell me what it really means or what you can conclude from it. That there are provocateers should not be news. That each case has to be individually examined should not be news.
You intrigue me. First you satirize Mr. Bayes’ opinion, implying that he’s gotta be dead wrong. Now you seem to be saying it doesn’t matter that he may be right. I don’t know if he’s right or not. But I do know that I want an accurate picture of how much racism there really is on campuses; I’m sure you do too. I don’t think it’s as bad as the media or a lot of PC students portray it. But there are problems, to be sure. Sincerely, — Mike Melnyk Cambridge, MA Unemployed and loving it.
Response:
You intrigue me. First you satirize Mr. Bayes’ opinion, implying that he’s gotta be dead wrong. Now you seem to be saying it doesn’t matter that he may be right. I don’t know if he’s right or not. But I do know that I want an accurate picture of how much racism there really is on campuses; I’m sure you do too. I don’t think it’s as bad as the media or a lot of PC students portray it. But there are problems, to be sure.
I am always amazed by peoples conclusions. My silly retort did not imply that he was wrong in his example. I just pushed it towards the same conclusions you want to make to show how stupid that line of logic is. That fact that one case was false has no bearing on other cases unless you are prone to snap judgements. If I don’t fit conveniently into your little boxes then good! Nobody here can figure me out and I like it that way though those who bother to follow will see that I am completely (well almost) consistent. If Bayes was trying to find an accurate picture of racism on campus, why would he pick the exceptional case of provocateerism? It’s always the same. People present one anecdote of an extreme case and wish for people to draw conclusions. It panders to a standard weakness in most people where we tend to draw quick and ready conclusions from limited data. Put another way, some people selectively remember or present that data which supports their cause. I try to expose that crap when I see it because it is insidious. My satire didn’t imply that his story was wrong – it exposed the subtle trend he was pushing for what it was. –Wade
Response:
not only are the following stories true but I’ve heard from a reliable undisclosed sourse that many of the so called lynchings of the past were in fact suicides. And the witnesses in the white coats were members of a suicide prevention group dedicated to the mental health of minorities. One ancedote is worth a thousand facts, eh?
Couldn’t you have asked for evidence without such a snide, knee-jerk response? I too have read of an racial harassment incident where one or more people-of-color were the real instigators. In fact, I’ll try to dig up a reference in the next day or two. Regarding Oberlin: I graduated from there in ‘84. I would be surprised but not completely so if it turns out that the graffiti in question was a merely a political ploy. Oberlin seems to be getting a little crazier as the years go on. When I went there back in the early ’80s, divestment, opposition to Reagan and Reaganomics, nuclear power – in addition to racism, sexism, and homophobia – were at the forefront of political debate and activism. The Oberlin community seemed to be a lot more cohesive back then, though conservatives were nevertheless scorned. Oberlin seems to be swept up in the PC wave that’s spread across the U.S. these days. From what I hear (and read in the alumni magazine), it seems the politics of division rules there. Charges of racism, sexism, and homophobia are leveled at the drop of a hat. Seems hard to believe that a school with such a progressive tradition and current student body abounds with as much racism as is commonly charged there. All I can say is, what a shame. Though I would get kind of pissed off at a lot of knee-jerk reactions I saw there, I never got the feeling the students were so PC that they were looking to pick political fights with one another. I get that impression about present-day Oberlin now. Sincerely, — Mike Melnyk Cambridge, MA Unemployed and loving it.
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<<generally sick parody deleted One ancedote is worth a thousand facts, eh? Couldn’t you have asked for evidence without such a snide, knee-jerk response?
Why? The story could very well have been true but so what? The intent of such stories is to suggest that racism isn’t a real problem anymore. It suggests that racism is so scarce that it has to be invented. Bull. I too have read of an racial harassment incident where one or more people-of-color were the real instigators. In fact, I’ll try to dig up a reference in the next day or two.
But so what? Tell me what it really means or what you can conclude from it. That there are provocateers should not be news. That each case has to be individually examined should not be news. –Wade
Response:
That "someone" that sprayed the graffiti may well be members of the target group. For example, a certain group (whose name I won’t mention) at a certain university (whose name I also won’t mention) sprayed graffiti in a few areas of campus that was indicative of those who degrade the group. This was then used as a reason to give more money, protections, etc. to the group and its members, since they were obviously targeted by some evil nasty perpetrators.
I just heard (it’s still in the rumor stage, but we’ll see…) that someone found out that it was an asian female who painted the grafitti. Again, I don’t know this for a fact, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. Ah, Oberlin. Dear sweet Oberlin. (did you call it or what?) –joe — — "recursive: adj; see recursive" /
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not only are the following stories true but I’ve heard from a reliable undisclosed sourse that many of the so called lynchings of the past were in fact suicides. And the witnesses in the white coats were members of a suicide prevention group dedicated to the mental health of minorities. One ancedote is worth a thousand facts, eh? –Wade – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over the weekend somebody spraypainted racist graffiti (sp?) all over campus, as well as burning a cross in front of one dorm. There was an outrage, and a protest followed monday morning, with hundreds of people chanting "hey hey ho ho racism has got to go". Today I saw a sign advertising meetings which would be happenuing in response to this, including one "all people-of-color meeting". That "someone" that sprayed the graffiti may well be members of the target group. For example, a certain group (whose name I won’t mention) at a certain university (whose name I also won’t mention) sprayed graffiti in a few areas of campus that was indicative of those who degrade the group. This was then used as a reason to give more money, protections, etc. to the group and its members, since they were obviously targeted by some evil nasty perpetrators. The main university paper caught wind of this, the student government jumped in to protect the group that was targeted, and administrators vowed to find and punish the offenders. The issue suddenly died a week and a half later after much fanfare. Seems that someone somewhere caught on to the hoax, and all of the supporters who were pointing fingers in all directions suddenly shut their mouths to keep from eating crow. Watch out for a set-up. From what I understand of Oberlin, it is fairly likely that this scenario may be a repeat of the story I just related. — Douglas C. Meier | Many words have been granted to me, and Northwestern University, ACNS | some are wise, and some are false, but Standard Disclaimer Applies | only three are holy: "I will it!"
Response:
I’ve noticed that I’ve gotten more and more cynical as the years go on, here at Oberlin, and I saw something today which reinforces that cynicism even further. But first some background: Over the weekend somebody spraypainted racist graffiti (sp?) all over campus, as well as burning a cross in front of one dorm. There was an outrage, and a protest followed monday morning, with hundreds of people chanting "hey hey ho ho racism has got to go". Today I saw a sign advertising meetings which would be happenuing in response to this, including one "all people-of-color meeting". I wonder if the same people who organized this were also the ones out chanting. Just another sign that hypocrisy is alive and well in the world. –joe — — "recursive: adj; see recursive" /
Response:
Over the weekend somebody spraypainted racist graffiti (sp?) all over campus, as well as burning a cross in front of one dorm. There was an outrage, and a protest followed monday morning, with hundreds of people chanting "hey hey ho ho racism has got to go". Today I saw a sign advertising meetings which would be happenuing in response to this, including one "all people-of-color meeting".
That "someone" that sprayed the graffiti may well be members of the target group. For example, a certain group (whose name I won’t mention) at a certain university (whose name I also won’t mention) sprayed graffiti in a few areas of campus that was indicative of those who degrade the group. This was then used as a reason to give more money, protections, etc. to the group and its members, since they were obviously targeted by some evil nasty perpetrators. The main university paper caught wind of this, the student government jumped in to protect the group that was targeted, and administrators vowed to find and punish the offenders. The issue suddenly died a week and a half later after much fanfare. Seems that someone somewhere caught on to the hoax, and all of the supporters who were pointing fingers in all directions suddenly shut their mouths to keep from eating crow. Watch out for a set-up. From what I understand of Oberlin, it is fairly likely that this scenario may be a repeat of the story I just related. — Douglas C. Meier | Many words have been granted to me, and Northwestern University, ACNS | some are wise, and some are false, but Standard Disclaimer Applies | only three are holy: "I will it!"
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Question:
_SF Bay Guardian_: "the least UC administrators can do is legitimize the reality by calling TAs what they are: university employees. - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "In the broadest sense, supporting AGSE is supporting the democratization of UC" - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – [ p a r t III (last) o f p r e v i o u s article/s] — organizing list/newsgroup; misc.activism.progressive; PeacNet)] San Francisco Bay Guardian, Monday December 7, 1992 B a c k U C G r a d S t u d e n t s Administrators at UC-Berkley have many academic and legal excuses for refusing to enter into collective bargaining with the Association of Graduate Student Employees (AGSE), the union of graduate student teachers and researchers. As far as we’re concerned, all these reasons boil down to the fact that UC - like any other big business – doesn’t want anyone, or any union, to tell them how to run their shop. But UC could not run without the labor of these grad students, and it is wrong to deny them the benefits that other university employees enjoy. Sixty percent or more of all the teaching at UC Berkley is done by graduate students – many undergrads get almost their entire education from teaching assistants. In fact, as the UC budget has constricted, classes have been combined, professors have been encouraged to take early retirement, and class size has been creeping upward. All this has meant an increase in the work load at UC, a burden borne by TAs. This exemption from teaching may allow UC to recruit "world-class" faculty members who are enticed by the freedom to conduct research without being shackled to lectures, assisting students and grading. But we’d like to see teachers recruited who like to teach, and for whom teaching is a fundamental requirement of their job. Frankly, we’d like to see a university more committed to students than to its reputation. But since that’s unlikely to happen and TAs will continue to carry that teaching load, the least UC administrators can do is legitimize the reality by calling TAs what they are: university employees. And, as employees, they are entitled to the same collective bargaining rights as other employees on campus – including professors. UC administrators say that grad student teachers and researchers don’t need a union because they already receive good benefits – between $6,000 and $7,148 per semester, a tuition fee rebate, and health insurance. What they don’t say is that any of these benefits can be changed at any time because there is no contract. The administrators don’t say that TAs get – and keep – these jobs at the whim and pleasure of UC professors; that the positions aren’t regularly posted, and these are no set standards for performance and no opportunities for recourse if they’re fired. UC administrators say that grad student teaching jobs are a form of financial aid. While it is true that the money these students make helps them pay for their tuition and living expenses, UC benefits just as much, getting dedicated, energetic teachers at a much lower rate than if it had to pay professors to actually teach its students. Reports from AGSE organizers that strike participants are being punished by losing their financial aid awards only prove the point that TAs need union representation. UC administrators argue that, because these TAs are working with professors and learning to be professors themselves, they are students, not employees. But employees at many jobs learn skills that allow them to earn promotions, or serve in apprenticeships that give them new expertise. The TAs are students, but they are employees, as well. In the broadest sense, supporting AGSE is supporting the democratization of UC. It will take just a little more arbitrary power away from people at the top. It will give a little more say to people the university is supposed to be serving. We call on UC to enter into collective bargaining with AGSE. —– End Included Message —– <* —– Begin Included Message —– - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – [above is part III of Amy Polk's message]
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<* —– Begin Included Message —– Greetings, brothers and sisters of the grad student labor struggle. I was in San Francisco yesterday for an interview and happened upon the Berkley strike. I talked to some of the striking TAs and picked up a few of AGSE’s (pronounced "AG-see") fliers. This information could be helpful in the general news category, but also as insight into the the main issues of the strike (i.e. recognition) and successful labor strategy (i.e. support from undergraduates and faculty is essential). Also included is an editorial from the San Francisco Bay Guardian in support (no big surprise) of AGSE’s struggle. Much what follows is alarmingly similar to my own past experiences at Michigan. Enjoy! -Amy AGSE Flier #1: AGSE/UAW ON STRIKE! Who is AGSE*UAW? The Association of Graduate Student Employees is the affiliate of the United Auto Workers which represents the 3,000 graduate students at UCB who do a majority of the teaching and researching on campus. Why is AGSE On Strike? We don’t want to strike. All we want is a promise in writing that we’ll have a place at the negotiating table to work on agreements about workload, health care, and other employment issues. T h e H i s t o r y o f A G S E 1988 The California Public Employment Relations Board certifies that AGSE/UAW represents a majority of the graduate student employees at UC Berkley. 1989 UC Berkley’s administration agrees to recognize AGSE, to meet with AGSE in good faith and to put resolutions of discussion in legally binding, written form. AGSE obtains agreements on paid health care, tuition waivers and items such as written job descriptions, job posting, and workload limits which protect the quality of teaching – and learning – on campus. 1992 The administration refuses to renew the productive relationship established in 1989. " I ‘ v e H e a r d T h a t . . . " …recognition would be illegal." Untrue. The courts have ruled that the university administration is not required to recognize AGSE. It is not prevented from doing do. …recognition would interfere with the way professors teach." AGSE isn’t asking for input on academic issues at all. We want the right to negotiate with the university administration on aspects of our employment such as workload, health care, and fees. …the strike really just hurts students." AGSE members teach about 60 percent of the undergraduate classes at Cal; we care deeply about undergraduate education. In fact, one of the things we want is the right to negotiate about class size, so fewer students must sit on the floors in overcrowded classrooms. Association of Graduate Student Employees Local 2165 * United Auto Workers * (510) 549-3863 AGSE Flier #2: Strike Update for Undergrads 1//30/92 S t r i k e S u m m a r y AGSE/UAW went on strike November 19,, after Berkley officials broke off negotiations with the Union. Broad support of the strike from undergraduates, faculty and the community helped persuade the Berkley administration to re- open talks on Wednesday, Nov. 25. Talk continued Sunday, further talks were scheduled from Monday, Nov. 30. The strike will end as soon as the University recognizes AGSE/UAW, formally guaranteeing the Union a place at the negotiating table to work towards agreements about teaching and research conditions, workload, and other employment issues. The Administration has made agreements with us in the past on such issues, but without recognition these agreements are in jeopardy. S t r i k e C h r o n o l o g y Monday, 11/12: Berkley administration breaks off negotiations, saying that UC systemwide administration revoked its authority to reach an agreement. Tuesday, 17th: AGSE/UAW postpones strike 48 hours as good faith gesture, in response to request from state elected officials & the UC President’s office to allow time for a solution. Thursday, 19th: Graduate student employees walk off the job. 70% of classes are completely shut down, thanks to undergraduate and faculty support. Friday, 20th: Graduate students at UC Davis and UC San Diego start informational picketing in support of AGSE/UAW. Monday, 23rd: GSEA/UAW at UC Santa Cruz goes on strike. UC Berkley strike continues. Undergraduate petition drive begins. Tuesday, 24th: UCB Academic Senate passes resolution in support of a negotiated settlement. AGSE starts picketing the Office of the UC President at the Kaiser Building in Oakland, along with Campus Central Receiving. Wednesday, 25th: UCB administration comes back to the negotiating table, but fails to make a viable proposal. Sunday, 29th: Negotiations continue. A further meeting is set for Monday. W h y S u p p o r t t h e S t r i k e ? GSIs teach a larger proportion of classes than ever, 60% as of today. In many language departments, for instance, all the introductory courses are taught by GSIs. Yet, while faculty have tenure and other contractual protections, we have none. We need strong representation to protect our teaching conditions and to ensure that our wages and benefits do not change without our consent. To that end, we elected AGSE/UAW to represent our interests. AGSE/UAW has worked productively with UCB administrators for three years, and has substantially improved working and learning conditions for graduate and undergraduates alike. AGSE/UAW Local 2165, 2372 Ellsworth, Berkley, CA 94704 549-3863 W h a t Y o u C a n D o * Please respect our picket lines! Stay off campus between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. Crossing the picket line weakens our strike and strengthens the University’s resistance to our demands. Run campus errands during non-picket hours. * Come picket with us! Signs are available at all picket locations, including the Bancroft and Telegraph information table. * Tell the Administration what you think: – sign our petition on the picket line – phone, fax or write Chancellor Tien and President Peltason to urge them to end the strike. President Peltason Office of the President University of California 300 Lakeside, 22nd Floor Oakland, CA 94612 phone: 510/987-0700 fax: 510/987-9086 Chancellor Tien 200 California Hall University of California Berkley, CA 94720 phone: 510/642-7464 fax: 510/643-5499 * Join USSA (Undergraduate Students in Support of AGSE). Call the ASUC offices at 642-1431 for information. TEACH-IN: Get your questions answered Wednesday, December 2, 10-2, location TBA. We urge you to attend a teach-in with undergraduate students and faculty, at which w will attempt to address your concerns regarding the strike and its impact on the end of the semester. The event will open with a strike- negotiations update. We have asked striking TAs and a number of faculty to speak, and to hold question & answer sessions in small groups. More information will be available on Tuesday – please watch for a flier. AGSE/UAW Local 2165, 2372 Ellsworth, Berkley, CA 94704 549-3863
Response:
"The university administration is attempting to bust the union – they’ve failed through legal means, they failed to break strike lines, so now they’re trying to cut off AGSE/UAW’s financial support, refusing to protect its members from possible blacklisting, and refusing to provide legal guarantees on the format of talks." - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "All we want is a guaranteed place at the negotiating table to talk about conditions of our employment, with agreements put in writing. We’re also asking that they agree not to blacklist us in future employment. - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "They won’t give us these simple things. Even though we’ve had them for three years. Even though they’ve called our relationship "productive". Even though they’ve offered many of these [items] earlier in negotiations. - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – [ p a r t I I o f p r e v i o u s m e s s a g e ] <* —– Begin Included Message —– - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – A G S E F l i e r # 3 : W h a t ‘ s R e a l l y G o i n g o n Accurate Information about the administration’s discussions with AGSE/UAW 12/4/92 Administration’s latest proposal moves backward – again AGSE/UAW would like to correct the misrepresentations which the administration has disseminated in the press and on campus in the last few days. The administration has consistently misrepresented the actual content of the current negotiations – a classic bad-faith tactic. Though the negotiations have progressed on several issues, the administration has regressed in negotiations, withdrawing their own previous offers in many cases – another classic bad-faith tactic. We want to settle this strike, and we’ve been negotiating in good faith to do that. They don’t seem to care about the truth, about undergraduate education, or about the ability of the Berkley campus to settle its own issues without interference from bureaucrats who haven’t been inside a classroom in decades. Following is a summary of some of the currently pending items which demonstrates the administration’s regressive bargaining. All of these items were contained in the 1989-1992 UC-AGSE interim recognition agreement. Contained in Interim Agreement Offered at Various Current This Fall Administration Offer 1. Recognition of AGSE/UAW as the Yes No representative of its members 2. "Good faith" standard for Yes No discussion of employment issues. 3. Payroll dues deductions for Yes No length of agreement (3 years). These bad faith maneuvers are in part the result of interference from the systemwide administration. However, since all of the above points have been Berkley policies as part of the interim agreement, the bad faith negotiations are also the result of UCB’s failure to protect the Berkley campus community from capricious dictates from systemwide administration. This must stop. AGSE/UAW Local 2165, 2372 Ellsworth, Berkley, CA 94704 (510) 549-3863 What do graduate student employees REALLY want? All we want is a guaranteed place at the negotiating table to talk about conditions of our employment, with agreements put in writing. We’re also asking that they agree not to blacklist us in future employment. They won’t give us these simple things. Even though we’ve had them for three years. Even though they’ve called our relationship "productive". Even though they’ve offered many of these [items] earlier in negotiations. We are not asking for our Union to be recognized as the collective bargaining agent for graduate student instructors and researchers under the Higher Education Employer-Employee Relations Act (HEERA). We do want our Union to be recognized for what it is: our representative in matters of employment. A big majority of us voted to be represented by the union, 1,300 of us pay dues (1,110 by dues deduction) because we want that, and we just will not go backward on that issue. We do want the university to meet with our Union to talk about employment issues in good faith. Despite their public relations rhetoric, they have not agreed to do that. W h a t t h e f a c u l t y R E A L L Y s a i d Over a week ago, the entire faculty told the administration in no uncertain terms that they wanted a solution to this strike to be worked out on this campus, without interference from systemwide administration. Apparently this administration still hasn’t heard that message. The latest administration offer backs down from long-standing campus policies, and it attempts to back away from our previous agreement. Why? Because those systemwide bureaucrats on the 22nd floor of a skyscraper mile away from any university campus can’t keep their hands off, and our own administrators are refusing to stand up to them. What’s REALLY happening with classes We teach 60% of all class meetings, so we care about undergraduate education. Since the strike began, we’ve been checking on class meetings around campus every day. We’ve found 62% of all classrooms empty through this Tuesday, another 16% less than half full, and only 22% more than half full out of a total of 417 classes surveyed through seven working days. Our numbers come from actual surveys of classes. They’ve never said where they get theirs. The university administration is attempting to bust the union – they’ve failed through legal means, they failed to break strike lines, so now they’re trying to cut off AGSE/UAW’s financial support, refusing to protect its members from possible blacklisting, and refusing to provide legal guarantees on the format of talks. The new "dues" policy would prohibit non-HEERA employee contributions to the Faculty Association and other groups as well. Many different people on campus have deductions for many different purposes; it is absurd that the campus cannot provide deductions to AGSE/UAW. And it is absurd that they cannot agree to the continuation of a three-year production relationship, but instead insist on prolonging the current strike. AGSE/UAW Local 2165, 2765 Ellsworth, Berkley, CA 94704 (501) 549-3863
Response:
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