Race Report #2: Dublin City Marathon

Question:

Yes, that’s the theory. I don’t think I could easily double the distance AND shave a minute per mile off the time without a huge amount of training, though. Doing a full marathon at 8:30 pace doesn’t strike me as too difficult from where I am now, though. What I have to do is to recover fully from this marathon while not losing too much fitness in the process. What do you do in this situation?

I swim and bike and occasionally hit the elliptical trainer and run as much as I feel happy running, and no more. After about two weeks I was mostly back into a normalish schedule. You won’t lose much fitness just from taking it easy for a week or two (provided "easy" does not mean "completely off"). You won’t gain any, either, but I appreciate the mental break. -dave — work: dga – at – lcs.mit.edu me: angio – at – pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed…) bulk emailers: I do not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

Response:

I’d be _delighted_ with the time you were disappointed with. Congrats! J.

Response:

Rather than jump in on Colm’s separate thread (q.v), I thought I’d post a report on my own experiences, as I bored everyone to death on here with my last minute training questions…

You deserve a thread of your own. Very well done! I’m glad that it went as it did. Many people would not have done so well – time-wise or enjoyment-wise and you seemed to have both. Yeah, I know, it was hell toward the end but you did a good job of it. I only hope that this interested you enough in running that you’ll look into some other event distances. I get the distinct impression that you would enjoy them, too. Also, any training runs would not have to have as much tension associated with them as your recent ones. In fact, there are some of us who feel that many/most training should actually be fun. Good for you, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many congrats – it sounds like you ran well, and managed to wisely avoid the temptation to sprint out from the starting line. Thanks! In fact I think I may have been a little TOO cautious, although I don’t have enough experience to be certain. I was trying to sustain a pace just fast enough to give me a time a whisker under 4 hours, but my miscalculations in the mid-section of the race meant that I was having to make up time in the last few miles, which was less than ideal. I think if I were to do the run again, I’d aim for slightly faster miles (8.5-8.75 rather than 9 minutes), because that seems a little more like my ‘natural’ pace, if there is such a thing. I may be wrong of course, and it may just cause me to burn up. It’s just a feeling, until I put it to the test.

I’m a firm believer that the first mile should be the slowest you run during the race. After that, .. it’s probably best to aim for mostly even pacing or a slight tendency towards negative splits. Gets you warmed up, avoids being stupid and trashing yourself while you feel unrealistically fresh. But I’m talking about maybe 30 seconds to a minute on the first mile, 15 seconds slower on the second, and then on to pace. Like I mentioned earlier, from your training runs, I’d guess you’re capable of running under 3:30 if you put your mind and effort towards Hmm, maybe. It’s a *big* leap from 4 hours, though, wouldn’t you say?

Yup. But you were undertrained for this marathon, and have a good build for running. I’m guessing, though, because it could be that you run your long training runs subjectively harder than I do. You could probably make a good guess of it from a 1/2M or 10k time. I’ve noticed that as I’ve been running longer, the predictions have become more accurate, but when I started out, my times for the longer distances were significantly slower than predicted. I attribute it primarily to aerobic development, and then to learning to race more effectively. Besides, 3:30 is only an 8:00 mile. You did a 14 mile training run at an 8:30 pace. In the great theory of training, if that was an easy long run, it should have been at least a minute per mile slower than your race pace. The caveat to all of this, though, is that the aerobic training to make your marathon pace come into line with your capability for speed can take quite a while. -Dave — work: dga – at – lcs.mit.edu me: angio – at – pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed…) bulk emailers: I do not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

Response:

Many congrats – it sounds like you ran well, and managed to wisely avoid the temptation to sprint out from the starting line.

Thanks! In fact I think I may have been a little TOO cautious, although I don’t have enough experience to be certain. I was trying to sustain a pace just fast enough to give me a time a whisker under 4 hours, but my miscalculations in the mid-section of the race meant that I was having to make up time in the last few miles, which was less than ideal. I think if I were to do the run again, I’d aim for slightly faster miles (8.5-8.75 rather than 9 minutes), because that seems a little more like my ‘natural’ pace, if there is such a thing. I may be wrong of course, and it may just cause me to burn up. It’s just a feeling, until I put it to the test. Like I mentioned earlier, from your training runs, I’d guess you’re capable of running under 3:30 if you put your mind and effort towards

Hmm, maybe. It’s a *big* leap from 4 hours, though, wouldn’t you say? J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a firm believer that the first mile should be the slowest you run during the race. After that, .. it’s probably best to aim for mostly even pacing or a slight tendency towards negative splits. Gets you warmed up, avoids being stupid and trashing yourself while you feel unrealistically fresh. But I’m talking about maybe 30 seconds to a minute on the first mile, 15 seconds slower on the second, and then on to pace. I think this would work well for me. Keeping the first mile slow isn’t so much of a problem, because it’s so bunched up at the beginning. It’s the next couple of miles which I’d have to watch – it took a lot of willpower for me not to just run at the pace of the people around me, and let myself fall behind.

True many are slowed by the mass start and you get to run a mile or so easy. Then the guilt/panic sets in and you feel compelled to make up the missed time when you finally get on pace at mile two or three. It’s at this time you race goes in the toilet if you don’t pay attention. So yes, ignore those around you, let them go and run your own race. Pay close attention to those early mile markers and adjust. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

I think this would work well for me. Keeping the first mile slow isn’t so much of a problem, because it’s so bunched up at the beginning. It’s the next couple of miles which I’d have to watch – it took a lot of willpower for me not to just run at the pace of the people around me, and let myself fall behind. Yup. But you were undertrained for this marathon, and have a good build for running. I’m guessing, though, because it could be that you run your long training runs subjectively harder than I do. You could probably make a good guess of it from a 1/2M or 10k time.

The next race I do will probably be a half marathon. Besides, 3:30 is only an 8:00 mile. You did a 14 mile training run at an 8:30 pace. In the great theory of training, if that was an easy long run, it should have been at least a minute per mile slower than your race pace.

Response:

Great effort.

Thanks! More training and sub 3:30 next year?

Around mile 24 I vowed to myself I would never do a marathon again, and after the race I said much the same when asked. But over the last day or so, I’ve found myself wondering about next year, or maybe even a few months from now. If I do it again, I’ll put a lot more training in. Is 3:30 within my range? Perhaps, but only with masses more training, over a much longer period. For the moment, I’m glad to have my life back for a little while! J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great effort. Thanks! More training and sub 3:30 next year? Around mile 24 I vowed to myself I would never do a marathon again, and after the race I said much the same when asked. But over the last day or so, I’ve found myself wondering about next year, or maybe even a few months from now. If I do it again, I’ll put a lot more training in. Is 3:30 within my range? Perhaps, but only with masses more training, over a much longer period. For the moment, I’m glad to have my life back for a little while!

Many congrats – it sounds like you ran well, and managed to wisely avoid the temptation to sprint out from the starting line. Like I mentioned earlier, from your training runs, I’d guess you’re capable of running under 3:30 if you put your mind and effort towards it. -Dave — work: dga – at – lcs.mit.edu me: angio – at – pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed…) bulk emailers: I do not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

Response:

Congrats — you’ve just run a very smart race, and finished with a respectable time because of it. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Well done … I told you you could do sub 4 …

Thanks! I recall your encouragement. J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than jump in on Colm’s separate thread (q.v), I thought I’d post a report on my own experiences, as I bored everyone to death on here with my last minute training questions… Colm is right, it was a perfect day to be running the marathon, as the temperature never got too hot or too cold (once we’d moved off – standing around at the start was pretty chilly!). I was to be running with two friends, Steve and Richard, who had, like me, come over from England for the event (along with our assembled spouses/families/girlfriends, who were to make an excellent support crew on the day, wearing themselves out running from place to place so they could be there to cheer us on at 11, 18 and 24 miles). Unfortunately in the ruck at the beginning, Steve didn’t actually manage to meet up with us, but Richard and I set off together, crossing the start line a minute or two after the gun went. Richard and I had done a few runs together in training and seemed to favour a similar pace. As he was a grizzled veteran of four marathons, and this was my first, I was originally intending to use him as a pacemaker (is that the word?), because he had the experience to ’sense’ what speed he was going at (which I hadn’t fully developed yet). This did not in fact happen, though, for two reasons: I had decided to throw copious short walk breaks into my run, which meant that we were inevitably going to split up for large portions of the time; and he set off like a mad thing at a pace much faster than I had trained with him at. After a mile, I let him disappear off into the distance, and settled down to a pace which felt right for me.

Smart move. [] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nonetheless, I upped the pace again and started coming into the final stretch. I came around the corner and there up ahead of me I could see the finishing line, so I attempted the nearest thing I could to a sprint. It looked like I would be comfortably within 4 hours (well, by a minute or so). Unfortunately, as I got closer, I realised that this was not in fact the finishing line, which was (or promised to be) around the next corner! Aaarrgh! So, I attempted to keep up the pace and with the seconds ticking away I aimed for the ‘real’ finishing line. I crossed it at 3:59:40, 20 seconds within the 4 hour point. I’d done it! I’d completed my first marathon, and I’d got under four hours! What a sense of elation! After hunting around for a while in the post-finish chaos area, I came across my girlfriend, who told me that Richard had come in in 3:46, 10 minutes faster than his PR. I was so pleased to hear this, as I’d been dreading coming across him in the last few miles because I thought he’d just burn up at the pace he was going. He’d managed to keep going at 8 minute miles to 14 miles, in the company of some runners who were going for low 3 hour times, and had then gradually slowed down, but had managed to keep going to the end. It was a while before we found out about Steve, who had apparently been really suffering at the 18 mile mark having gone out too fast. I thought he’d possibly dropped out, but he’d managed to get home in 4:01:30, which was by any standards a decent time for his first marathon, like mine done with way too little training. Unfortunately he’d set his heart on a sub-4 (he’s a fit and athletic guy) and was disappointed. We gave him a good talking to, though. So, a good day all round. Two of us were delighted with our times, the other should have been and may well get around to being in time. And I raised some decent sponsorship money for charity.

Congratulations to all of you. And thanks for the nice report! I noticed that you ran totally inside yourself, there was little description of other runners around you. You have very good powers of concentration. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What have I learned? Well, I’m glad I ignored the naysayers and went for it. I did think it was possible, and I proved it was so. As for the race itself, I am convinced that throwing in the walk breaks helped me considerably. It may not have been this – it may have been the energy drinks that did it, or the carb-loading I undertook, or something to do with my physiology – but I never hit the wall. In fact, I ran the last few miles faster than the 12-18 miles. Not only that, but it actually felt easier to run faster at that stage, presumably because it slightly changed the way the muscles in my legs were being used. If I were to run it again, I would make sure, though, that I had a lot more training miles under my belt so that my legs would be a little more used to the pounding. I think, as well, that I’d do exactly the same in terms of the run/walk alternation, but I’d aim for a slightly faster running pace (like the 8.5 mins/mile I got used to in longer training runs), because I think my legs actually cope better with it and gets it all over a little more quickly! That is, I don’t think my aerobic fitness was the limiting factor and I could have coped with a faster pace throughout. I could not, though, have coped with much more pounding of the tarmac, so reducing the number of footfalls would help.

Every race is a lesson learned. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for the Dublin Marathon – it was very very friendly, everyone out on the streets wishing us well, a really great atmosphere, but the organisation was disappointingly poor. I’m going to e-mail them with some suggestions for next year, but I don’t know what went wrong this year – Richard did the run two years ago and said it was much better organised then. I won’t go into the litany of problems here, except to say what I thought was the worst single problem of all – it was not at all clear in the final stretch how far we were from the finishing line, and there were even a couple of misleading ‘false’ finishing points. I don’t know whether other marathons have this or not, but it desperately needed signs marking 800 yards to go, 700 yards to go and so on. It was so cruel for the runners who were struggling home. So, will I be back next year? With the way my legs are feeling today, you must be joking! Ask me tomorrow, though… John

Great report for a great run. Thanks for sharing it. Ed

Response:

Congrats — you’ve just run a very smart race, and finished with a respectable time because of it.

Thanks! And thanks for pointing me in the direction of Jeff Galloway, whose ideas I to some extent followed. I can’t accept, though, that my race was ‘very smart’, given the astonishingly bad mental arithmetic in the middle section, but all that joggling of the brain is bound to have some effect. J.

Response:

Well done … I told you you could do sub 4 … Jonathan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than jump in on Colm’s separate thread (q.v), I thought I’d post a report on my own experiences, as I bored everyone to death on here with my last minute training questions… Colm is right, it was a perfect day to be running the marathon, as the temperature never got too hot or too cold (once we’d moved off – standing around at the start was pretty chilly!). I was to be running with two friends, Steve and Richard, who had, like me, come over from England for the event (along with our assembled spouses/families/girlfriends, who were to make an excellent support crew on the day, wearing themselves out running from place to place so they could be there to cheer us on at 11, 18 and 24 miles). Unfortunately in the ruck at the beginning, Steve didn’t actually manage to meet up with us, but Richard and I set off together, crossing the start line a minute or two after the gun went. Richard and I had done a few runs together in training and seemed to favour a similar pace. As he was a grizzled veteran of four marathons, and this was my first, I was originally intending to use him as a pacemaker (is that the word?), because he had the experience to ’sense’ what speed he was going at (which I hadn’t fully developed yet). This did not in fact happen, though, for two reasons: I had decided to throw copious short walk breaks into my run, which meant that we were inevitably going to split up for large portions of the time; and he set off like a mad thing at a pace much faster than I had trained with him at. After a mile, I let him disappear off into the distance, and settled down to a pace which felt right for me. From the first water stop (3 miles in), I set my run/walk plan in action. I walked for exactly a minute, ran for two miles, walked for another minute and so on. I stuck to this plan pretty rigorously up to about 21 miles, even though it was not always easy to know quite when to do it, because they had neglected to mark some mile points (one of many areas where the race organisation left a lot to be desired). After a few miles, I already knew it was not going to be one of those very good days I had occasionally had in training, because I was getting aches in various muscles far too early on. At least I was not seeing the ITBS problem in my left knee, though, and I was hoping to scrape through OK. I was originally doing 8.5 minute miles (including the walk breaks), but I thought this might be too fast for me, so I slowed down a little, aiming to keep the miles just the right side of 9 minutes. I figured that by doing that, I might be able to conserve enough energy to do a sub-4 hour marathon, a goal which I had dismissed in the last couple of weeks as being unachievable with the dismally insufficient training I had had. Doing the maths, though, made me realise that I was in with a chance as long as I could conserve enough energy not to flag badly in the last few miles. I knocked back an energy drink at 11 miles, and passed the half-way mark with a time around 1:56-1:57. (Why not more precise? Because the half-way mark was not in fact marked! What can I say?) Leg ache was increasing, although not at the rate I had feared after 5 miles. Somewhere around mile 15-16, something went wrong with my mental arithmetic, because without realising it I started slipping behind 9 minutes per mile. I wasn’t slowing down out of fatigue, I was just getting calculations wrong (perhaps mental fatigue was to blame!). Anyway, at 18 miles or so, I noticed my mistake and realised I would soon have to start going faster if I was to achieve my dream goal – and this is not a point you want to have to accelerate! Still, I cranked the speed up a little, and went past the 20 mile marker wondering if and when the dreaded Wall was going to loom up and hit me in the face. A lot of people were looking pretty grim by now, but I wasn’t feeling too bad (thanks to the walk breaks, I’m sure). I still wasn’t within my required time, though, so I had to accelerate still further. At around mile 23-24, my legs were definitely telling me they’d had enough of this beating and I’m sure I could hear them murmuring about possible strike action. The end was not far away now, though – in miles if not in effort – so I knocked back another energy drink and spurred myself on (and was also spurred on by the great support crew, waiting at 24). I was passing people at speed now, and felt a bit guilty about not giving them some more encouragement. It was probably somewhere around here that I passed Steve without noticing. But as I said, I was just focussed on getting there. I was clawing my way back into contention now, and at about 25 miles I worked out as well as I could that if I ran the last 1.2 miles at the pace of one of my faster mid-distance training runs, I could get inside 4 hours still. Trouble is, I don’t normally do those runs after already running 25 miles… Nonetheless, I upped the pace again and started coming into the final stretch. I came around the corner and there up ahead of me I could see the finishing line, so I attempted the nearest thing I could to a sprint. It looked like I would be comfortably within 4 hours (well, by a minute or so). Unfortunately, as I got closer, I realised that this was not in fact the finishing line, which was (or promised to be) around the next corner! Aaarrgh! So, I attempted to keep up the pace and with the seconds ticking away I aimed for the ‘real’ finishing line. I crossed it at 3:59:40, 20 seconds within the 4 hour point. I’d done it! I’d completed my first marathon, and I’d got under four hours! What a sense of elation! After hunting around for a while in the post-finish chaos area, I came across my girlfriend, who told me that Richard had come in in 3:46, 10 minutes faster than his PR. I was so pleased to hear this, as I’d been dreading coming across him in the last few miles because I thought he’d just burn up at the pace he was going. He’d managed to keep going at 8 minute miles to 14 miles, in the company of some runners who were going for low 3 hour times, and had then gradually slowed down, but had managed to keep going to the end. It was a while before we found out about Steve, who had apparently been really suffering at the 18 mile mark having gone out too fast. I thought he’d possibly dropped out, but he’d managed to get home in 4:01:30, which was by any standards a decent time for his first marathon, like mine done with way too little training. Unfortunately he’d set his heart on a sub-4 (he’s a fit and athletic guy) and was disappointed. We gave him a good talking to, though. So, a good day all round. Two of us were delighted with our times, the other should have been and may well get around to being in time. And I raised some decent sponsorship money for charity. What have I learned? Well, I’m glad I ignored the naysayers and went for it. I did think it was possible, and I proved it was so. As for the race itself, I am convinced that throwing in the walk breaks helped me considerably. It may not have been this – it may have been the energy drinks that did it, or the carb-loading I undertook, or something to do with my physiology – but I never hit the wall. In fact, I ran the last few miles faster than the 12-18 miles. Not only that, but it actually felt easier to run faster at that stage, presumably because it slightly changed the way the muscles in my legs were being used. If I were to run it again, I would make sure, though, that I had a lot more training miles under my belt so that my legs would be a little more used to the pounding. I think, as well, that I’d do exactly the same in terms of the run/walk alternation, but I’d aim for a slightly faster running pace (like the 8.5 mins/mile I got used to in longer training runs), because I think my legs actually cope better with it and gets it all over a little more quickly! That is, I don’t think my aerobic fitness was the limiting factor and I could have coped with a faster pace throughout. I could not, though, have coped with much more pounding of the tarmac, so reducing the number of footfalls would help. As for the Dublin Marathon – it was very very friendly, everyone out on the streets wishing us well, a really great atmosphere, but the organisation was disappointingly poor. I’m going to e-mail them with some suggestions for next year, but I don’t know what went wrong this year – Richard did the run two years ago and said it was much better organised then. I won’t go into the litany of problems here, except to say what I thought was the worst single problem of all – it was not at all clear in the final stretch how far we were from the finishing line, and there were even a couple of misleading ‘false’ finishing points. I don’t know whether other marathons have this or not, but it desperately needed signs marking 800 yards to go, 700 yards to go and so on. It was so cruel for the runners who were struggling home. So, will I be back next year? With the way my legs are feeling today, you must be joking! Ask me tomorrow, though… John

Response:

Rather than jump in on Colm’s separate thread (q.v), I thought I’d post a report on my own experiences, as I bored everyone to death on here with my last minute training questions… Colm is right, it was a perfect day to be running the marathon, as the temperature never got too hot or too cold (once we’d moved off – standing around at the start was pretty chilly!). I was to be running with two friends, Steve and Richard, who had, like me, come over from England for the event (along with our assembled spouses/families/girlfriends, who were to make an excellent support crew on the day, wearing themselves out running from place to place so they could be there to cheer us on at 11, 18 and 24 miles). Unfortunately in the ruck at the beginning, Steve didn’t actually manage to meet up with us, but Richard and I set off together, crossing the start line a minute or two after the gun went. Richard and I had done a few runs together in training and seemed to favour a similar pace. As he was a grizzled veteran of four marathons, and this was my first, I was originally intending to use him as a pacemaker (is that the word?), because he had the experience to ’sense’ what speed he was going at (which I hadn’t fully developed yet). This did not in fact happen, though, for two reasons: I had decided to throw copious short walk breaks into my run, which meant that we were inevitably going to split up for large portions of the time; and he set off like a mad thing at a pace much faster than I had trained with him at. After a mile, I let him disappear off into the distance, and settled down to a pace which felt right for me. From the first water stop (3 miles in), I set my run/walk plan in action. I walked for exactly a minute, ran for two miles, walked for another minute and so on. I stuck to this plan pretty rigorously up to about 21 miles, even though it was not always easy to know quite when to do it, because they had neglected to mark some mile points (one of many areas where the race organisation left a lot to be desired). After a few miles, I already knew it was not going to be one of those very good days I had occasionally had in training, because I was getting aches in various muscles far too early on. At least I was not seeing the ITBS problem in my left knee, though, and I was hoping to scrape through OK. I was originally doing 8.5 minute miles (including the walk breaks), but I thought this might be too fast for me, so I slowed down a little, aiming to keep the miles just the right side of 9 minutes. I figured that by doing that, I might be able to conserve enough energy to do a sub-4 hour marathon, a goal which I had dismissed in the last couple of weeks as being unachievable with the dismally insufficient training I had had. Doing the maths, though, made me realise that I was in with a chance as long as I could conserve enough energy not to flag badly in the last few miles. I knocked back an energy drink at 11 miles, and passed the half-way mark with a time around 1:56-1:57. (Why not more precise? Because the half-way mark was not in fact marked! What can I say?) Leg ache was increasing, although not at the rate I had feared after 5 miles. Somewhere around mile 15-16, something went wrong with my mental arithmetic, because without realising it I started slipping behind 9 minutes per mile. I wasn’t slowing down out of fatigue, I was just getting calculations wrong (perhaps mental fatigue was to blame!). Anyway, at 18 miles or so, I noticed my mistake and realised I would soon have to start going faster if I was to achieve my dream goal – and this is not a point you want to have to accelerate! Still, I cranked the speed up a little, and went past the 20 mile marker wondering if and when the dreaded Wall was going to loom up and hit me in the face. A lot of people were looking pretty grim by now, but I wasn’t feeling too bad (thanks to the walk breaks, I’m sure). I still wasn’t within my required time, though, so I had to accelerate still further. At around mile 23-24, my legs were definitely telling me they’d had enough of this beating and I’m sure I could hear them murmuring about possible strike action. The end was not far away now, though – in miles if not in effort – so I knocked back another energy drink and spurred myself on (and was also spurred on by the great support crew, waiting at 24). I was passing people at speed now, and felt a bit guilty about not giving them some more encouragement. It was probably somewhere around here that I passed Steve without noticing. But as I said, I was just focussed on getting there. I was clawing my way back into contention now, and at about 25 miles I worked out as well as I could that if I ran the last 1.2 miles at the pace of one of my faster mid-distance training runs, I could get inside 4 hours still. Trouble is, I don’t normally do those runs after already running 25 miles… Nonetheless, I upped the pace again and started coming into the final stretch. I came around the corner and there up ahead of me I could see the finishing line, so I attempted the nearest thing I could to a sprint. It looked like I would be comfortably within 4 hours (well, by a minute or so). Unfortunately, as I got closer, I realised that this was not in fact the finishing line, which was (or promised to be) around the next corner! Aaarrgh! So, I attempted to keep up the pace and with the seconds ticking away I aimed for the ‘real’ finishing line. I crossed it at 3:59:40, 20 seconds within the 4 hour point. I’d done it! I’d completed my first marathon, and I’d got under four hours! What a sense of elation! After hunting around for a while in the post-finish chaos area, I came across my girlfriend, who told me that Richard had come in in 3:46, 10 minutes faster than his PR. I was so pleased to hear this, as I’d been dreading coming across him in the last few miles because I thought he’d just burn up at the pace he was going. He’d managed to keep going at 8 minute miles to 14 miles, in the company of some runners who were going for low 3 hour times, and had then gradually slowed down, but had managed to keep going to the end. It was a while before we found out about Steve, who had apparently been really suffering at the 18 mile mark having gone out too fast. I thought he’d possibly dropped out, but he’d managed to get home in 4:01:30, which was by any standards a decent time for his first marathon, like mine done with way too little training. Unfortunately he’d set his heart on a sub-4 (he’s a fit and athletic guy) and was disappointed. We gave him a good talking to, though. So, a good day all round. Two of us were delighted with our times, the other should have been and may well get around to being in time. And I raised some decent sponsorship money for charity. What have I learned? Well, I’m glad I ignored the naysayers and went for it. I did think it was possible, and I proved it was so. As for the race itself, I am convinced that throwing in the walk breaks helped me considerably. It may not have been this – it may have been the energy drinks that did it, or the carb-loading I undertook, or something to do with my physiology – but I never hit the wall. In fact, I ran the last few miles faster than the 12-18 miles. Not only that, but it actually felt easier to run faster at that stage, presumably because it slightly changed the way the muscles in my legs were being used. If I were to run it again, I would make sure, though, that I had a lot more training miles under my belt so that my legs would be a little more used to the pounding. I think, as well, that I’d do exactly the same in terms of the run/walk alternation, but I’d aim for a slightly faster running pace (like the 8.5 mins/mile I got used to in longer training runs), because I think my legs actually cope better with it and gets it all over a little more quickly! That is, I don’t think my aerobic fitness was the limiting factor and I could have coped with a faster pace throughout. I could not, though, have coped with much more pounding of the tarmac, so reducing the number of footfalls would help. As for the Dublin Marathon – it was very very friendly, everyone out on the streets wishing us well, a really great atmosphere, but the organisation was disappointingly poor. I’m going to e-mail them with some suggestions for next year, but I don’t know what went wrong this year – Richard did the run two years ago and said it was much better organised then. I won’t go into the litany of problems here, except to say what I thought was the worst single problem of all – it was not at all clear in the final stretch how far we were from the finishing line, and there were even a couple of misleading ‘false’ finishing points. I don’t know whether other marathons have this or not, but it desperately needed signs marking 800 yards to go, 700 yards to go and so on. It was so cruel for the runners who were struggling home. So, will I be back next year? With the way my legs are feeling today, you must be joking! Ask me tomorrow, though… John

Response:

I noticed that you ran totally inside yourself, there was little description of other runners around you. You have very good powers of concentration.

Yes, I did rather omit to mention that there were other runners involved! The fact is that I didn’t ever exchange more than a handful of words with anyone else throughout the run, as it never just seemed to happen – I was never running alongside anyone for any length of time. It could be because of the strategy I took, which meant that early in the race people seemed to be overtaking me quite a bit, and later on I was the overtaker. I did run behind a guy for a while whose T-shirt suggested he’d run 100 marathons, so I reckoned he must be someone to learn a lot from. I was interested in his gait, which seemed to feature a lot more hip waggle than most others, but it was not one I could reproduce (it may, of course, be the result of physiological damage from running 100 marathons…). Great report for a great run. Thanks for sharing it.

You’re welcome! The (more positive) contributions of many people on here were really helpful to me. J.

Response:

I crossed it at 3:59:40, 20 seconds within the 4 hour point. I’d done it! I’d completed my first marathon, and I’d got under four hours! What a sense of elation!

Great effort. I didn’t think, given your training, you’d manage sub-4. Obviously a well-judged race. More training and sub 3:30 next year? Andrew

Response:

Nice sub four John. Rest up, take some time off and my guess is you’ll be back for an attempt at something better. I was. Ran the MCM the same day (see report above). You were probably done for two hours when our cannon went off. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than jump in on Colm’s separate thread (q.v), I thought I’d post a report on my own experiences, as I bored everyone to death on here with my last minute training questions… Colm is right, it was a perfect day to be running the marathon, as the temperature never got too hot or too cold (once we’d moved off – standing around at the start was pretty chilly!). I was to be running with two friends, Steve and Richard, who had, like me, come over from England for the event (along with our assembled spouses/families/girlfriends, who were to make an excellent support crew on the day, wearing themselves out running from place to place so they could be there to cheer us on at 11, 18 and 24 miles). Unfortunately in the ruck at the beginning, Steve didn’t actually manage to meet up with us, but Richard and I set off together, crossing the start line a minute or two after the gun went. Richard and I had done a few runs together in training and seemed to favour a similar pace. As he was a grizzled veteran of four marathons, and this was my first, I was originally intending to use him as a pacemaker (is that the word?), because he had the experience to ’sense’ what speed he was going at (which I hadn’t fully developed yet). This did not in fact happen, though, for two reasons: I had decided to throw copious short walk breaks into my run, which meant that we were inevitably going to split up for large portions of the time; and he set off like a mad thing at a pace much faster than I had trained with him at. After a mile, I let him disappear off into the distance, and settled down to a pace which felt right for me. From the first water stop (3 miles in), I set my run/walk plan in action. I walked for exactly a minute, ran for two miles, walked for another minute and so on. I stuck to this plan pretty rigorously up to about 21 miles, even though it was not always easy to know quite when to do it, because they had neglected to mark some mile points (one of many areas where the race organisation left a lot to be desired). After a few miles, I already knew it was not going to be one of those very good days I had occasionally had in training, because I was getting aches in various muscles far too early on. At least I was not seeing the ITBS problem in my left knee, though, and I was hoping to scrape through OK. I was originally doing 8.5 minute miles (including the walk breaks), but I thought this might be too fast for me, so I slowed down a little, aiming to keep the miles just the right side of 9 minutes. I figured that by doing that, I might be able to conserve enough energy to do a sub-4 hour marathon, a goal which I had dismissed in the last couple of weeks as being unachievable with the dismally insufficient training I had had. Doing the maths, though, made me realise that I was in with a chance as long as I could conserve enough energy not to flag badly in the last few miles. I knocked back an energy drink at 11 miles, and passed the half-way mark with a time around 1:56-1:57. (Why not more precise? Because the half-way mark was not in fact marked! What can I say?) Leg ache was increasing, although not at the rate I had feared after 5 miles. Somewhere around mile 15-16, something went wrong with my mental arithmetic, because without realising it I started slipping behind 9 minutes per mile. I wasn’t slowing down out of fatigue, I was just getting calculations wrong (perhaps mental fatigue was to blame!). Anyway, at 18 miles or so, I noticed my mistake and realised I would soon have to start going faster if I was to achieve my dream goal – and this is not a point you want to have to accelerate! Still, I cranked the speed up a little, and went past the 20 mile marker wondering if and when the dreaded Wall was going to loom up and hit me in the face. A lot of people were looking pretty grim by now, but I wasn’t feeling too bad (thanks to the walk breaks, I’m sure). I still wasn’t within my required time, though, so I had to accelerate still further. At around mile 23-24, my legs were definitely telling me they’d had enough of this beating and I’m sure I could hear them murmuring about possible strike action. The end was not far away now, though – in miles if not in effort – so I knocked back another energy drink and spurred myself on (and was also spurred on by the great support crew, waiting at 24). I was passing people at speed now, and felt a bit guilty about not giving them some more encouragement. It was probably somewhere around here that I passed Steve without noticing. But as I said, I was just focussed on getting there. I was clawing my way back into contention now, and at about 25 miles I worked out as well as I could that if I ran the last 1.2 miles at the pace of one of my faster mid-distance training runs, I could get inside 4 hours still. Trouble is, I don’t normally do those runs after already running 25 miles… Nonetheless, I upped the pace again and started coming into the final stretch. I came around the corner and there up ahead of me I could see the finishing line, so I attempted the nearest thing I could to a sprint. It looked like I would be comfortably within 4 hours (well, by a minute or so). Unfortunately, as I got closer, I realised that this was not in fact the finishing line, which was (or promised to be) around the next corner! Aaarrgh! So, I attempted to keep up the pace and with the seconds ticking away I aimed for the ‘real’ finishing line. I crossed it at 3:59:40, 20 seconds within the 4 hour point. I’d done it! I’d completed my first marathon, and I’d got under four hours! What a sense of elation! After hunting around for a while in the post-finish chaos area, I came across my girlfriend, who told me that Richard had come in in 3:46, 10 minutes faster than his PR. I was so pleased to hear this, as I’d been dreading coming across him in the last few miles because I thought he’d just burn up at the pace he was going. He’d managed to keep going at 8 minute miles to 14 miles, in the company of some runners who were going for low 3 hour times, and had then gradually slowed down, but had managed to keep going to the end. It was a while before we found out about Steve, who had apparently been really suffering at the 18 mile mark having gone out too fast. I thought he’d possibly dropped out, but he’d managed to get home in 4:01:30, which was by any standards a decent time for his first marathon, like mine done with way too little training. Unfortunately he’d set his heart on a sub-4 (he’s a fit and athletic guy) and was disappointed. We gave him a good talking to, though. So, a good day all round. Two of us were delighted with our times, the other should have been and may well get around to being in time. And I raised some decent sponsorship money for charity. What have I learned? Well, I’m glad I ignored the naysayers and went for it. I did think it was possible, and I proved it was so. As for the race itself, I am convinced that throwing in the walk breaks helped me considerably. It may not have been this – it may have been the energy drinks that did it, or the carb-loading I undertook, or something to do with my physiology – but I never hit the wall. In fact, I ran the last few miles faster than the 12-18 miles. Not only that, but it actually felt easier to run faster at that stage, presumably because it slightly changed the way the muscles in my legs were being used. If I were to run it again, I would make sure, though, that I had a lot more training miles under my belt so that my legs would be a little more used to the pounding. I think, as well, that I’d do exactly the same in terms of the run/walk alternation, but I’d aim for a slightly faster running pace (like the 8.5 mins/mile I got used to in longer training runs), because I think my legs actually cope better with it and gets it all over a little more quickly! That is, I don’t think my aerobic fitness was the limiting factor and I could have coped with a faster pace throughout. I could not, though, have coped with much more pounding of the tarmac, so reducing the number of footfalls would help. As for the Dublin Marathon – it was very very friendly, everyone out on the streets wishing us well, a really great atmosphere, but the organisation was disappointingly poor. I’m going to e-mail them with some suggestions for next year, but I don’t know what went wrong this year – Richard did the run two years ago and said it was much better organised then. I won’t go into the litany of problems here, except to say what I thought was the worst single problem of all – it was not at all clear in the final stretch how far we were from the finishing line, and there were even a couple of misleading ‘false’ finishing points. I don’t know whether other marathons have this or not, but it desperately needed signs marking 800 yards to go, 700 yards to go and so on. It was so cruel for the runners who were struggling home. So, will I be back next year? With the way my legs are feeling today, you must be joking! Ask me tomorrow, though… John

Response:

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