The worth of my voice

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. that’s just so wrong peace, that group a *lot of stuff to Liz (and others) that is not only just *wrong, it’s cruel and ignorant. Yes, it was all so totally unprovoked. Yes. In many cases, with many people, it *is unprovoked. And it’s still *wrong. One person being an asshole doesn’t give license to everyone they encounter to be ans asshole. The initial asshole saying fucked up stuff is responsible for his/her stuff. The person responding (having been "provoked") is responsible for their *own stuff. I guess it’s all a matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not). KC, I have seen your responses when provoked . . . oft times when unprovoked, too. I’m sure, then, that you understand exactly how someone may not take the "high" road you advocate here. I guess I feel, too, that the person provoking should not be given smilies and a home-free card. Again, matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not in the first place). Shar

Hey Shar =) I’ve also seen my responses, and *I take 100% responsibility for *all of them. I was not so much advocating a "high road", as speaking as a person who has hurt people and been hurt by people. I’m not trying to fool myself or anyone else into believing I’ve never made nasty responses, nor am I trying to claim that I will never *again have a nasty response. I didn’t make either claim in my post. And whether it’s me being nasty or someone else being nasty I/he/she am/is responsible for my/their behaviour. Kc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar Kc

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. that’s just so wrong peace, that group a *lot of stuff to Liz (and others) that is not only just *wrong, it’s cruel and ignorant. Yes, it was all so totally unprovoked. Yes. In many cases, with many people, it *is unprovoked. And it’s still *wrong. One person being an asshole doesn’t give license to everyone they encounter to be ans asshole. The initial asshole saying fucked up stuff is responsible for his/her stuff. The person responding (having been "provoked") is responsible for their *own stuff. I guess it’s all a matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not). Besides, let’s be honest: this group follows my every written word everywhere I go and comments on it no matter the content or subject matter. Nine and a half times out of ten I am not discussing them or anything involving them at all and some of the newest players there *never even met me* and never had any actual contact with me at all. They go solely on what they have been told. I don’t respect people who want to be accepted so bad they allow themselves to be so malleable. I’m not sure *which group you are referring to, I was referring to several of the BFer’s. So am I, though a couple of the Pathfinder people and at least one poster here are involved, as well. Just me, making friends and influencing people *g*

Heh. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As to being provoked, they are provoked by my very continued *existence and they’ll have to survive somehow. My daughter hits my son. I say to her ‘why did you hit him’ and she says ‘because he made me mad’. I do not say to her ‘oh, well, ok then. If he made you *mad, that’s ok’. I teach my kids that it doesn’t matter whether or not someone is trying to piss you off, you don’t get to hit them in response. Period. I don’t let my kids use ‘he made me do it’ as an excuse and I certainly don’t buy it in a group of adults. I work hard on controlling that part of my nature which would like to shoot from the hip. I don’t always succeed, but more often than not these days, I do. I’m wary of people who say they cannot control themselves or insist someone *made them do x, y or z because they made them mad. I prefer to be with people who are aware of their bullshit, can face it head on and work on it. I respect people who work hard at themselves and take responsibility for what they do. I’m unimpressed with people who can’t work hard on their issues, whatever they may be so instead focus on other people and make of those people the reason for all their troubles. I do not like people who are weak or are cowards. That’s me. Clearly, there is a niche for them out there and to each his own. Me, it isn’t my cup of tea. I archive it in case I need it later, and then I move past it. Moving past it and not freaking out about every nasty word was one of the biggest things I had to focus on when I first came to aar and I think I’ve done pretty good. And I know in my heart, rather than simply intellectually, that what I think about my progress (or lack thereof) is all that matters. There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar

Response:

KC, I have seen your responses when provoked . . . oft times when unprovoked, too. I’m sure, then, that you understand exactly how someone may not take the "high" road you advocate here. I guess I feel, too, that the person provoking should not be given smilies and a home-free card. Again, matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not in the first place). Shar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar Kc

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. that’s just so wrong peace, that group a *lot of stuff to Liz (and others) that is not only just *wrong, it’s cruel and ignorant. Yes, it was all so totally unprovoked. Yes. In many cases, with many people, it *is unprovoked. And it’s still *wrong. One person being an asshole doesn’t give license to everyone they encounter to be ans asshole. The initial asshole saying fucked up stuff is responsible for his/her stuff. The person responding (having been "provoked") is responsible for their *own stuff. I guess it’s all a matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not). Besides, let’s be honest: this group follows my every written word everywhere I go and comments on it no matter the content or subject matter. Nine and a half times out of ten I am not discussing them or anything involving them at all and some of the newest players there *never even met me* and never had any actual contact with me at all. They go solely on what they have been told. I don’t respect people who want to be accepted so bad they allow themselves to be so malleable. I’m not sure *which group you are referring to, I was referring to several of the BFer’s.

So am I, though a couple of the Pathfinder people and at least one poster here are involved, as well. Just me, making friends and influencing people *g* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As to being provoked, they are provoked by my very continued *existence and they’ll have to survive somehow. My daughter hits my son. I say to her ‘why did you hit him’ and she says ‘because he made me mad’. I do not say to her ‘oh, well, ok then. If he made you *mad, that’s ok’. I teach my kids that it doesn’t matter whether or not someone is trying to piss you off, you don’t get to hit them in response. Period. I don’t let my kids use ‘he made me do it’ as an excuse and I certainly don’t buy it in a group of adults. I work hard on controlling that part of my nature which would like to shoot from the hip. I don’t always succeed, but more often than not these days, I do. I’m wary of people who say they cannot control themselves or insist someone *made them do x, y or z because they made them mad. I prefer to be with people who are aware of their bullshit, can face it head on and work on it. I respect people who work hard at themselves and take responsibility for what they do. I’m unimpressed with people who can’t work hard on their issues, whatever they may be so instead focus on other people and make of those people the reason for all their troubles. I do not like people who are weak or are cowards. That’s me. Clearly, there is a niche for them out there and to each his own. Me, it isn’t my cup of tea. I archive it in case I need it later, and then I move past it. Moving past it and not freaking out about every nasty word was one of the biggest things I had to focus on when I first came to aar and I think I’ve done pretty good. And I know in my heart, rather than simply intellectually, that what I think about my progress (or lack thereof) is all that matters. There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. that’s just so wrong peace, that group a *lot of stuff to Liz (and others) that is not only just *wrong, it’s cruel and ignorant. Yes, it was all so totally unprovoked. Yes. In many cases, with many people, it *is unprovoked. And it’s still *wrong. One person being an asshole doesn’t give license to everyone they encounter to be ans asshole. The initial asshole saying fucked up stuff is responsible for his/her stuff. The person responding (having been "provoked") is responsible for their *own stuff. I guess it’s all a matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not). Besides, let’s be honest: this group follows my every written word everywhere I go and comments on it no matter the content or subject matter. Nine and a half times out of ten I am not discussing them or anything involving them at all and some of the newest players there *never even met me* and never had any actual contact with me at all. They go solely on what they have been told. I don’t respect people who want to be accepted so bad they allow themselves to be so malleable.

I’m not sure *which group you are referring to, I was referring to several of the BFer’s. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As to being provoked, they are provoked by my very continued *existence and they’ll have to survive somehow. My daughter hits my son. I say to her ‘why did you hit him’ and she says ‘because he made me mad’. I do not say to her ‘oh, well, ok then. If he made you *mad, that’s ok’. I teach my kids that it doesn’t matter whether or not someone is trying to piss you off, you don’t get to hit them in response. Period. I don’t let my kids use ‘he made me do it’ as an excuse and I certainly don’t buy it in a group of adults. I work hard on controlling that part of my nature which would like to shoot from the hip. I don’t always succeed, but more often than not these days, I do. I’m wary of people who say they cannot control themselves or insist someone *made them do x, y or z because they made them mad. I prefer to be with people who are aware of their bullshit, can face it head on and work on it. I respect people who work hard at themselves and take responsibility for what they do. I’m unimpressed with people who can’t work hard on their issues, whatever they may be so instead focus on other people and make of those people the reason for all their troubles. I do not like people who are weak or are cowards. That’s me. Clearly, there is a niche for them out there and to each his own. Me, it isn’t my cup of tea. I archive it in case I need it later, and then I move past it. Moving past it and not freaking out about every nasty word was one of the biggest things I had to focus on when I first came to aar and I think I’ve done pretty good. And I know in my heart, rather than simply intellectually, that what I think about my progress (or lack thereof) is all that matters. There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar Kc

Response:

Besides, let’s be honest: this group follows my every written word everywhere I go and comments on it no matter the content or subject matter. Nine and a half times out of ten I am not discussing them or anything involving them at all and some of the newest players there *never even met me* and never had any actual contact with me at all. They go solely on what they have been told. I don’t respect people who want to be accepted so bad they allow themselves to be so malleable. As to being provoked, they are provoked by my very continued *existence and they’ll have to survive somehow. My daughter hits my son. I say to her ‘why did you hit him’ and she says ‘because he made me mad’. I do not say to her ‘oh, well, ok then. If he made you *mad, that’s ok’. I teach my kids that it doesn’t matter whether or not someone is trying to piss you off, you don’t get to hit them in response. Period. I don’t let my kids use ‘he made me do it’ as an excuse and I certainly don’t buy it in a group of adults. I work hard on controlling that part of my nature which would like to shoot from the hip. I don’t always succeed, but more often than not these days, I do. I’m wary of people who say they cannot control themselves or insist someone *made them do x, y or z because they made them mad. I prefer to be with people who are aware of their bullshit, can face it head on and work on it. I respect people who work hard at themselves and take responsibility for what they do. I’m unimpressed with people who can’t work hard on their issues, whatever they may be so instead focus on other people and make of those people the reason for all their troubles. I do not like people who are weak or are cowards. That’s me. Clearly, there is a niche for them out there and to each his own. Me, it isn’t my cup of tea. I archive it in case I need it later, and then I move past it. Moving past it and not freaking out about every nasty word was one of the biggest things I had to focus on when I first came to aar and I think I’ve done pretty good. And I know in my heart, rather than simply intellectually, that what I think about my progress (or lack thereof) is all that matters. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar Kc

Response:

There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kc

Response:

i’m not sure that’s always the case. I think that literally, you cannot change a thing *and have it. I think in a literal sense that if you change something, you have killed its inital form as it no longer exists. sometimes that part to be changed, that aspect, has to be dropped and

substituted with whatever i feel is "healthier", but i’m not sure that it dies so much as is redirected into a different state. the change is like a tree seed taking root, the seed doesn’t die, it just alters it’s life state and becomes what its potential is. i shouldn’t post when i’m tired..

No, I see where you are going, and I think we agree. We’re just using different words, I think. I don’t think it matters whether the intial form dies or simply enters a different ststae. All I mean is that the intial state can no longer exist in its form once you change it. A seed which becomes a flower is no longer a seed. You should post all the time. At least while I’m still here *g* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ll do more thinking on this and get back to you naomi

Response:

‘Ello ‘ello …

Hey you,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi you, Give in? Does it really feel like a defeat? I know what you mean (or what I think you mean) – every time I do something I’ve told myself I’m not going to do (for whatever reason) it does, yes, feel like a defeat. But it needn’t be that way, yaknow. The internet, like the telephone, is morally neutral. No no…. I mean settle in here as unhappy and ill as I have been. Deciding whether I would fight to move out of this or settle in and just accept being this unhappy as the norm. I don’t have anything to say to the idea of being miserable as the norm except to nod. Silently. Been there, and you can keep the fershluggina t-shirt.

As long as it fits, anyway *g* Still struggling to keep the weight I lost from creeping back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A sign from outside yourself, you mean? My "sign" has been to trust my own instincts, more or less. Not from outside, but from inside, because (point coming up –) what you are inside is enough. Enough and more. Just thought I’d mention it. Learning to trust my instincts has been very hard for me. I still battle with it. In fact, I recently trusted someone with an awful lot of info about me, and eveyr fiber of my being was telling me not to. I didn’t listen, because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings. Then, surprise, some of the info I trusted them with ended up becoming part of the public record, so to speak. Live and live and live and live and eventually, oh please god, learn. I hope. I wish I had listened to my instincts, though. I have so much internal chatter that its hard to take any of it seriously. The voices in my head are having a permanent cocktail party. *shrug* Finding the part that is truthful and almost always right (for me, anyway) is not simple. And I don’t know that its a recovery issue, to be honest. I think its a function of maturity and experience. (There have to be *some* perks for growing old(er), don’t there?)

True. Makes me wonder if the part of us that is surprised we aren’t eighteen anymore, which is surprised because we SWEAR it was just last week that our kids were babies, if that part of us isn’t always at war with the part of us that has learned lessons, gotten wrinkled, etc. Maybe that’s part of it. I noticed that on top of my head, most of my roots are silver. It had been a long time since I had seen my roots so I was surprised to find how advanced the change had been. I’ve decided to let it grow out a bit just to see what it looks like, but there is this part of me saying ‘are you INSANE? ROOTS?’ Duh. I said a long time ago that I don’t think we ever get all the answers we expected to find when we grew up. I don’t think we ever grow up, anymore. I think we just keep going. I’m sorry that what happens to you online happens. It mystifies and amazes me, and is off the bizarre-o-meter. You cope with it better than I could.

They’ve given me a bizarre kind of celebrity which will be interesting if I ever manage to publish anything. It’s one of those things where I can turn it on and off, though. If it were happening to me offline, if I were being pursued by a similar group offline in the same way, I would handle it much differently. Online though, I view it when I’m in a place to do that, archive it and then I can turn my back on it and it goes away. As long as that stays the case, I can live with it *shrug* We’ll see how it goes when I open a new site. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Opening a website, coming back. And I’ve missed you, too. I will never, ever get angry with a friend who dropped out of sight without a word, again. I haven’t answered e mail, I haven’t visited most of my favorite reads. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the people I used to read most often were angry or felt like I deserted them. Then there are the people who really didin’t miss me at all *g* Within minutes of leaving the intial post here, I was getting nastygrams about how worthless my voice really was and why bother coming back, etc One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. See "bizarre", above. I don’t understand why people go out of their way to be ghastly, but I don’t worry and fret myself into a tizzy trying to get some sense out of it any more. I suppose that’s progress of a sort.

I think so. I think you have to be able to accept that some things just kind of *are before you can stop being bugged by them, right? That’s the way I think it will be with the Random. I’m getting better about it because I am closer to accepting that sometimes shit just happens, and you can’t control everything. I can be a good mother and I can do everything I can think to do to keep my kids safe, but shit can still happen. Every part of my being rails against that and fights it. But I’m getting better. I’m loosening the leash a little. With my middle one, I’m trusting her with more independence, more freedom. The other two, I am encouraging not only more independence but I’m also making them accept more responsibility for things they do. I could go on about that one all day, but I won’t. Bleh. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess the idea is to maybe keep me from coming back? Push me over the edge? When I finally got what was going on, I almost laughed out loud, and then I wanted to cry. I *threaten some people. My smarts or my tenacity or my unwillingness to back down, whatever it is, I threaten some people. If those people had any idea at all who I really am, if they had half the knowledge about me they assume to have when they make pronouncements about who I am, I would be the last person on earth to catch their eye and send them into self defense mode. It just amazes me. But it *didn’t crush me. It did not make me fall down dead or want to die. I was a little tired reading it, maybe. I just don’t have the energy to expend on being angry with or hurt by it. That seems to be another line I’ve crossed. Certain things that once would have made me react one way no longer seem to have the power to send *me into attack mode. You get tired, I think. I did, anyway. I was everlastingly tired of being someone that I didn’t particularly like. I don’t like who I am now, don’t misunderstand, but I trust her a bit.

Yes, that was a big part of it, I think. And I don’t know how well I like myself now, but I know what I didn’t like about myself then. And like you, I think I am going to trust myself more and before I like myself. I could tell you all day what *I* like about you, but you wouldn’t really hear it, would you? I wouldn’t. The lady who donated my webspace has so much faith in me and I finally asked her ‘why me? there are so MANY talented people out there, why me?’ and she said ‘you have a unique story to tell’. I could have kissed her for that. That I could trust and understand. If she had said ‘because you’re sweet and deserving and I like you so much’ I would have blown it off. Back when I was thought to have "management potential" I was sent for a public speaking course, during which I was videotaped giving a talk. Of course, I suffered agonies getting ready for that, but when I saw the finished product, I completely amazed myself by sort of liking that person up there talking. Not me, of course – I didn’t perceive that person as me, which is another discussion. But likeable. So I try to be her, you know? That likeable person. It’s more of a struggle than you probably imagine. My default me is sort of … well, not likeable. Not a warrior, like you can be at your best, but thoroughly selfish, as has been pointed out to me.

I’ve never seen that in you, so you must be hiding it well *g* I think it’s a lot easier to imagine it than you think, though. Everytime I leave my house, I put on a persona. I hide behind make up, or hair, or clothes. I listen to a certain kind of music. I hide behind a thousand things. I act, and I do it well. I’m competent and tough with doctors, schools and bureaucrats and when I have to be, I’m a dissolved mess. I use it all unashamedly to do what needs to be done for me and the kids. Who I am…I have no idea anymore. I only know who I am in any given moment and it changes as quickly as the next moment comes. That’s one of my gifts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Overall, I am hoping I will be able to balance things better this time. I’m just really so tired, though. Most of the time, I’m just kind of weary. It takes a lot of energy to do either, doesn’t it? Put a legitimate piece of myself on the net or engage in a flame war, it all takes energy. *g* Tonight, all the energy I have is going to be taken up in watching white petals turn different colors and learning about how and why flowers suck up water when you put them in a glass, oh joy :) Care for a worm farm? You can send away for 200 earthworms and watch them … um, worm through the earth. Talk about joy. My five-year-old grandson thinks it sounds just dandy. So, bless her forever, does his mom.

Um….no. No thank you. No worms, no ant farms, nothing that crawls, creeps, moves breathes, thanks. And for the record, no playdoh, either. If I hate a parent, I always give her kid some playdoh. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < … You know I think the best journals are about content, not glitz, CJ notwithstanding. You’ll never out-flash (heh) the flashy. The

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X-No-Archive: yes Nah. It’s just her. She’s a lot like Alan that way. People are who they are and it’s silly to get all fussy about it. I don’t know who *her* is…but, it’s wrong regardless. Cruel behavior doesn’t get excused just because the person it’s coming from has that tendency. It was wrong for some one to suggest that your husband allow you to walk into traffic — I don’t care what the reason.

I’m not saying it’s right or excuseable, Deb. I’m saying I stopoped being surprised by what comes out of her mouth a long time ago, because the same thing *always comes out of her mouth. I know, when I see her name attached to something, exactly what I will find. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – so….there. peace, d Whoever travels without a guide, needs two hundred years for a two-day journey. ~ Rumi~ — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Yes. In many cases, with many people, it *is unprovoked. And it’s still *wrong. One person being an asshole doesn’t give license to everyone they encounter to be ans asshole. The initial asshole saying fucked up stuff is responsible for his/her stuff. The person responding (having been "provoked") is responsible for their *own stuff. I guess it’s all a matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar Kc

Response:

Hey!! What was that noise I just heard?! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -One person being an asshole doesn’t give license to everyone they encounter to be ans asshole. The initial asshole saying fucked up stuff is responsible for his/her stuff. The person responding (having been "provoked") is responsible for their *own stuff. I guess it’s all a matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not). There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar Kc

Response:

Dunno. Your perception is your reality, James. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One person being an asshole doesn’t give license to everyone they encounter to be ans asshole. The initial asshole saying fucked up stuff is responsible for his/her stuff. The person responding (having been "provoked") is responsible for their *own stuff. I guess it’s all a matter of personal choice (as to whether to be a jerk or not). There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g* And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar Kc

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi you, Change sucks, I’m here to tell you. All change, all the time. (Yes, I’m a late adapter, why do you ask?) Even positive change, because who am I to be happy, after all … ? But change is what life *is*. Yeah. I talked to someone in e mail about that, that for part of you to change, another part has to die (the part you are channging has to die in its current form). i just wanted to address this part. do you really think that a part of you has to die for change to occur? i’m not sure that’s always the case. I think that literally, you cannot change a thing *and have it. I think in a literal sense that if you change something, you have killed its inital form as it no longer exists. i think i see what you mean…flour, sugar, eggs, butter, leavening and

vanilla as separate constituents don’t make a cake but if you combine them, add head and time, and they usually make something worth eating…but they’re no longer what they were… Exactly. To become the cake they had to stop being what they were, in and of themselves. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sometimes that part to be changed, that aspect, has to be dropped and substituted with whatever i feel is "healthier", but i’m not sure that it dies so much as is redirected into a different state. the change is like a tree seed taking root, the seed doesn’t die, it just alters it’s life state and becomes what its potential is. i shouldn’t post when i’m tired.. No, I see where you are going, and I think we agree. We’re just using different words, I think. I don’t think it matters whether the intial form dies or simply enters a different ststae. All I mean is that the intial state can no longer exist in its form once you change it. A seed which becomes a flower is no longer a seed. *nods* i see what you mean now You should post all the time. At least while I’m still here *g* why, danke

You’re uh…you’re whatever the German word for ‘welcome’ is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Yes, it was all so totally unprovoked. There are some people whose opinion really *doesn’t affect me. I do what I can to protect our family from it, and then I leave it alone. There was a time when I would have gone charging in with an awful lot of heavy punctuation, bad grammar and ALL CAPS. I’ll say this, though: whoever said that if you ignore someone long enough, they will go away and find a new target was wrong *g*

And over time you have certainly proven that. Shar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kc

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi you, Change sucks, I’m here to tell you. All change, all the time. (Yes, I’m a late adapter, why do you ask?) Even positive change, because who am I to be happy, after all … ? But change is what life *is*. Yeah. I talked to someone in e mail about that, that for part of you to change, another part has to die (the part you are channging has to die in its current form). i just wanted to address this part. do you really think that a part of you has to die for change to occur? i’m not sure that’s always the case. I think that literally, you cannot change a thing *and have it. I think in a literal sense that if you change something, you have killed its inital form as it no longer exists.

i think i see what you mean…flour, sugar, eggs, butter, leavening and vanilla as separate constituents don’t make a cake but if you combine them, add head and time, and they usually make something worth eating…but they’re no longer what they were… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -sometimes that part to be changed, that aspect, has to be dropped and substituted with whatever i feel is "healthier", but i’m not sure that it dies so much as is redirected into a different state. the change is like a tree seed taking root, the seed doesn’t die, it just alters it’s life state and becomes what its potential is. i shouldn’t post when i’m tired.. No, I see where you are going, and I think we agree. We’re just using different words, I think. I don’t think it matters whether the intial form dies or simply enters a different ststae. All I mean is that the intial state can no longer exist in its form once you change it. A seed which becomes a flower is no longer a seed.

*nods* i see what you mean now You should post all the time. At least while I’m still here *g*

why, danke

Response:

Hi you, Change sucks, I’m here to tell you. All change, all the time. (Yes, I’m a late adapter, why do you ask?) Even positive change, because who am I to be happy, after all … ? But change is what life *is*. Yeah. I talked to someone in e mail about that, that for part of you to change, another part has to die (the part you are channging has to die in its current form).

i just wanted to address this part. do you really think that a part of you has to die for change to occur? i’m not sure that’s always the case. sometimes that part to be changed, that aspect, has to be dropped and substituted with whatever i feel is "healthier", but i’m not sure that it dies so much as is redirected into a different state. the change is like a tree seed taking root, the seed doesn’t die, it just alters it’s life state and becomes what its potential is. i shouldn’t post when i’m tired.. i’ll do more thinking on this and get back to you naomi

Response:

X-No-Archive: yes One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. that’s just so wrong peace,

that group a *lot of stuff to Liz (and others) that is not only just *wrong, it’s cruel and ignorant. Kc

Response:

X-No-Archive: yes One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. that’s just so wrong peace,

Nah. It’s just her. She’s a lot like Alan that way. People are who they are and it’s silly to get all fussy about it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – d Whoever travels without a guide, needs two hundred years for a two-day journey. ~ Rumi~ — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Hi you,

Hello, you.

I mentioned recently that I was going through a struggle to see whether or not I was going to be able to move past where I was or give in and just kind of settle in here. Give in? Does it really feel like a defeat? I know what you mean (or what I think you mean) – every time I do something I’ve told myself I’m not going to do (for whatever reason) it does, yes, feel like a defeat. But it needn’t be that way, yaknow. The internet, like the telephone, is morally neutral.

No no…. I mean settle in here as unhappy and ill as I have been. Deciding whether I would fight to move out of this or settle in and just accept being this unhappy as the norm. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve spoken to some of you via e mail about having been sick so long, gotten so used to saying what I could not do for so long that I really had no idea at *all anymore what I could or could not do. All my adult life (the part of it after I became aware that it belonged to me, anyway) I have been waiting for some kind of sign. A sign to tell me what to do, when to start, what my gift was, where my niche was so I would know what to do next. A sign from outside yourself, you mean? My "sign" has been to trust my own instincts, more or less. Not from outside, but from inside, because (point coming up –) what you are inside is enough. Enough and more. Just thought I’d mention it.

Learning to trust my instincts has been very hard for me. I still battle with it. In fact, I recently trusted someone with an awful lot of info about me, and eveyr fiber of my being was telling me not to. I didn’t listen, because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings. Then, surprise, some of the info I trusted them with ended up becoming part of the public record, so to speak. Live and live and live and live and eventually, oh please god, learn. I hope. I wish I had listened to my instincts, though. I’m thinking, though, that maybe there is never any one big moment in which it all becomes clear. Along the way there are dozens of little signs, little voices telling you what you need to know. You just have to be able to hear them. I think that is as big a moment of clarity as we get: the moment when we realize there are little voices and we can choose or not to listen to them. I’ve been struggling a lot of late with the idea of coming back to the web. I’m glad you’re coming back. I’ve missed you.

Opening a website, coming back. And I’ve missed you, too. I will never, ever get angry with a friend who dropped out of sight without a word, again. I haven’t answered e mail, I haven’t visited most of my favorite reads. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the people I used to read most often were angry or felt like I deserted them. Then there are the people who really didin’t miss me at all *g* Within minutes of leaving the intial post here, I was getting nastygrams about how worthless my voice really was and why bother coming back, etc One thoughtful person suggested to my husband that next time he just let me wander into traffic. I guess the idea is to maybe keep me from coming back? Push me over the edge? When I finally got what was going on, I almost laughed out loud, and then I wanted to cry. I *threaten some people. My smarts or my tenacity or my unwillingness to back down, whatever it is, I threaten some people. If those people had any idea at all who I really am, if they had half the knowledge about me they assume to have when they make pronouncements about who I am, I would be the last person on earth to catch their eye and send them into self defense mode. It just amazes me. But it *didn’t crush me. It did not make me fall down dead or want to die. I was a little tired reading it, maybe. I just don’t have the energy to expend on being angry with or hurt by it. That seems to be another line I’ve crossed. Certain things that once would have made me react one way no longer seem to have the power to send *me into attack mode. Overall, I am hoping I will be able to balance things better this time. I’m just really so tired, though. Most of the time, I’m just kind of weary. It takes a lot of energy to do either, doesn’t it? Put a legitimate piece of myself on the net or engage in a flame war, it all takes energy. *g* Tonight, all the energy I have is going to be taken up in watching white petals turn different colors and learning about how and why flowers suck up water when you put them in a glass, oh joy :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More than all that, though, I have been focused on making sure I presented the prettiest, savviest, most up to date flashiest site I can. I can spend an entire day, months even, on designing the packaging (and have, for that matter). At first because I was enthralled by a love for designing and learning to code and later because I did not want to leave myself open to criticism. I did not want to hear that my design sucked. Tonight, as I was thinking how funny it is that the worse you look, the more invisible you are, it came to me that the design of my site isn’t a real expression of who I am, any more than the clothes I wear are. That’s just about what I want you (the generic you) to *think I am. You know I think the best journals are about content, not glitz, CJ notwithstanding. You’ll never out-flash (heh) the flashy. The minute you master HTML, there’s CSS. Then ASP. Then the newer new thing. Some of the best journals I know are very, very basic in their design. Minimalist. I don’t go there to be awed by how well they use Photoshop, I go there for the writing. Books have very few animated .gifs and they do surprisingly well.

Heh *g* True. But don’t you think people on the internet, people who choose to spend their time on the net rather than reading a book do so, in part, because of the instant eye candy kind of glitz? I don’t know why I walked away any more than I know why I came back, though I could point to factors. Nothing happened. Nothing changed. I do not know why I asked a store manager for a job application this afternoon instead of burning myself again and I do not know why tonight the idea of burning myself seems so attractive or why this letter has been so hard to write. *nodding* You have choices, though. Burning (or cutting, or other -ing things) is a choice. A crap choice, as someone once told me, but a choice.

I used to think so, too. I don’t think it’s a crap choice, anymore. I’ve learned that it is a far better choice to burn myself than take a bottle of pills. Whatever works, as far as I am concerned. I don’t have the resources, financial or internal right now, to have a therapist at my beck and call for my the mini meltdowns I keep having like strokes. I thought long and hard about what alternatives I had, and I remembered how good I felt, how much pressure was relieved when I burned myself. It had to be something like that, but it had to be something that the kids wouldn’t pick up on. It had to be something they never see. I burn myself in a place they can’t see. They aren’t around me when I do it and I have done it enough times now that I don’t even make a noise anymore. I bet it’s the way diabetics get used to shots all the time. Drinking with Xanax didn’t address any of that. Enough Xanax to work left me too wiped to be available or drive safely. But I needed *something and it had to hurt and it had to leave a scar, something I can use to pull it out of me and then see. This works for me. And I’m not thinking about driving off roads or finding myself in dazes where I can’t turn right or left because I can’t think well enough to choose. It helps. But oh, Liz, good on you for that application. Give yourself a huge pat on the back. You rock the house, girl. You know you do.

Yeah, but I am only available for morning hours, and they wanted someone available all the time. But I did fill it out and all. Change sucks, I’m here to tell you. All change, all the time. (Yes, I’m a late adapter, why do you ask?) Even positive change, because who am I to be happy, after all … ? But change is what life *is*.

Yeah. I talked to someone in e mail about that, that for part of you to change, another part has to die (the part you are channging has to die in its current form). I am opening a new site, and the design is really going to bite weenies. I can tell you that *g* And this will be its first entry, I think. Good deal. I’m glad.

You? How are you? You owe me e mail. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catherine

Response:

welcome back naomi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I mentioned recently that I was going through a struggle to see whether or not I was going to be able to move past where I was or give in and just kind of settle in here. I’ve spoken to some of you via e mail about having been sick so long, gotten so used to saying what I could not do for so long that I really had no idea at *all anymore what I could or could not do. All my adult life (the part of it after I became aware that it belonged to me, anyway) I have been waiting for some kind of sign. A sign to tell me what to do, when to start, what my gift was, where my niche was so I would know what to do next. I’m thinking, though, that maybe there is never any one big moment in which it all becomes clear. Along the way there are dozens of little signs, little voices telling you what you need to know. You just have to be able to hear them. I think that is as big a moment of clarity as we get: the moment when we realize there are little voices and we can choose or not to listen to them. I’ve been struggling a lot of late with the idea of coming back to the web. I have had generously donated to me all the space for my site I could ever have asked for. This was donated to me a couple of months back, and since then I have often visited the engine of the space. It was comforting to know that I had a place there and I was immensely grateful that the site owner did not press me to be creative before I was ready. I have been daunted by the idea of transferring all the archives to a new space and all the re-coding that will involve as well as buckling to the intricacies of Graymatter, a system which allows you to design your entire site in FrontPage (or any other html editor) as long as you remember to use certain proprietary tags. Kind of apt, that, don’t you think? The idea that I should be able to design my site the way I want as long as I can follow some basic rules. Rules which are constant, unchanging and which, if you follow them, always deliver exactly what is promised. Soothing to a woman who was knocked off her feet by The Random. More than all that, though, I have been focused on making sure I presented the prettiest, savviest, most up to date flashiest site I can. I can spend an entire day, months even, on designing the packaging (and have, for that matter). At first because I was enthralled by a love for designing and learning to code and later because I did not want to leave myself open to criticism. I did not want to hear that my design sucked. Tonight, as I was thinking how funny it is that the worse you look, the more invisible you are, it came to me that the design of my site isn’t a real expression of who I am, any more than the clothes I wear are. That’s just about what I want you (the generic you) to *think I am. Over the years I had a web site, I’ve gotten letters from people thanking me for the help I provided, the direction I gave them, the hope or sense of commonality they felt when they read my words. I’ve had people thank me for being brave, being honest, being willing to share. I’ve even had people thank me for helping to save their lives. Not one of those letters ever began or ended with ‘btw, thanks for the great site design’. Someone said to me recently that being part of a site I had left had been like going to a symphony and not hearing the violins. I get e mail from people all the time asking when I am coming back because they miss reading me. These incredible, generous compliments have nothing to do with the way I look or the colors I choose for page design or makeup. They’re about my *voice. It’s about what I have to say. I don’t understand how, I don’t get the mechanism of how what I say translates to how it makes people feel, but I can hear the voice now that tells me that my voice matters. Some people make the world a better place through activism. Some by building towering monuments to the human spirit, some by saving lives, some by adopting stray pets. I will never get an award for best site design and I will never be part of any of the prestigious rings devoted to artistic expression. Because of my difficulties in social settings, I’m never going to do any of that *g* The only thing I have to offer is my voice and my view of the world: my past, my present, what there may be in the future. How I was shaped, what made me who I am, how I use it all to go on. The only thing I have that will ever have any worth or make any difference in anyone’s life (besides my children, who I will one day offer to the world with the hope they be treated well and fairly) is my voice. And the letters I have received from people thanking me for my help are all little signs. They were the voices I had been waiting for and ignored. I didn’t have any one moment in which I realized that. I didn’t lay in bed and get zapped with an epiphany-gram. I said a million years ago (and a million times since then) that the only thing which ever made it possible to live with my past was knowing I could use it to help someone else. In the time since I shut my site down, I have lost that, and the impact on my life has been immeasurable. There have been moments where it was very touch and go, to be honest. Nights where I took way too many pills, burned too long or too large, moments where my husband had to drag me back out of the street I had wandered into. I walked away from the only support system I have ever known and willingly gave up the only voice I had ever been allowed to have. I walked away from all the people who had helped me through so many moments and were so willing, if I would only let them, to help me through the next one. I walked away from being heard into a deafening silence that almost killed me. I don’t know why I walked away any more than I know why I came back, though I could point to factors. Nothing happened. Nothing changed. I do not know why I asked a store manager for a job application this afternoon instead of burning myself again and I do not know why tonight the idea of burning myself seems so attractive or why this letter has been so hard to write. No epiphanies, no burning bush. Just little signs I am learning to read, little voices I am learning to listen to. I do not promise not to kill myself (a loud voice, that one) and I won’t tell you what I cannot do because I don’t know anymore. I am opening a new site, and the design is really going to bite weenies. I can tell you that *g* And this will be its first entry, I think.

Response:

A sign to tell me what to do, when to start, what my gift was, where my niche was so I would know what to do next.

Just get your recovery Liz – detox the brain of the bitter salty tears and use your emotions to take you along the path to your recovery. once those tears are out – the path is manifest. your genius, your gifts, your talents come out – God, the system of things makes it that way I am convinced – in seeing how perpatrators are so fucking dumb. Bush is dumb – oui ? I tell you – its true – the United Nations are to stoopid to find the doomsday weapons. see Liz — I have an attachment disorder, bonding problems, working on them – some antidependency – cancer – and then I got some near death expereiences to give me a little more distance between me and the world … something to keep me busy – sink my teeth in and fix up. I got a big brain – so I got big problems to fix and play around with. it sure as hell is not boring – now is it … sumbuddie luvs ya liz – sumbuddie luvs ya a lot

Response:

Hello, you. I mentioned recently that I was going through a struggle to see whether or not I was going to be able to move past where I was or give in and just kind of settle in here.

Give in? Does it really feel like a defeat? I know what you mean (or what I think you mean) – every time I do something I’ve told myself I’m not going to do (for whatever reason) it does, yes, feel like a defeat. But it needn’t be that way, yaknow. The internet, like the telephone, is morally neutral. I’ve spoken to some of you via e mail about having been sick so long, gotten so used to saying what I could not do for so long that I really had no idea at *all anymore what I could or could not do. All my adult life (the part of it after I became aware that it belonged to me, anyway) I have been waiting for some kind of sign. A sign to tell me what to do, when to start, what my gift was, where my niche was so I would know what to do next.

A sign from outside yourself, you mean? My "sign" has been to trust my own instincts, more or less. Not from outside, but from inside, because (point coming up –) what you are inside is enough. Enough and more. Just thought I’d mention it. I’m thinking, though, that maybe there is never any one big moment in which it all becomes clear. Along the way there are dozens of little signs, little voices telling you what you need to know. You just have to be able to hear them. I think that is as big a moment of clarity as we get: the moment when we realize there are little voices and we can choose or not to listen to them. I’ve been struggling a lot of late with the idea of coming back to the web.

I’m glad you’re coming back. I’ve missed you. < … More than all that, though, I have been focused on making sure I presented the prettiest, savviest, most up to date flashiest site I can. I can spend an entire day, months even, on designing the packaging (and have, for that matter). At first because I was enthralled by a love for designing and learning to code and later because I did not want to leave myself open to criticism. I did not want to hear that my design sucked. Tonight, as I was thinking how funny it is that the worse you look, the more invisible you are, it came to me that the design of my site isn’t a real expression of who I am, any more than the clothes I wear are. That’s just about what I want you (the generic you) to *think I am.

You know I think the best journals are about content, not glitz, CJ notwithstanding. You’ll never out-flash (heh) the flashy. The minute you master HTML, there’s CSS. Then ASP. Then the newer new thing. Some of the best journals I know are very, very basic in their design. Minimalist. I don’t go there to be awed by how well they use Photoshop, I go there for the writing. Books have very few animated .gifs and they do surprisingly well. < … I don’t know why I walked away any more than I know why I came back, though I could point to factors. Nothing happened. Nothing changed. I do not know why I asked a store manager for a job application this afternoon instead of burning myself again and I do not know why tonight the idea of burning myself seems so attractive or why this letter has been so hard to write.

*nodding* You have choices, though. Burning (or cutting, or other -ing things) is a choice. A crap choice, as someone once told me, but a choice. But oh, Liz, good on you for that application. Give yourself a huge pat on the back. You rock the house, girl. You know you do. Change sucks, I’m here to tell you. All change, all the time. (Yes, I’m a late adapter, why do you ask?) Even positive change, because who am I to be happy, after all … ? But change is what life *is*. I am opening a new site, and the design is really going to bite weenies. I can tell you that *g* And this will be its first entry, I think.

Good deal. I’m glad. Catherine

Response:

I mentioned recently that I was going through a struggle to see whether or not I was going to be able to move past where I was or give in and just kind of settle in here. I’ve spoken to some of you via e mail about having been sick so long, gotten so used to saying what I could not do for so long that I really had no idea at *all anymore what I could or could not do. All my adult life (the part of it after I became aware that it belonged to me, anyway) I have been waiting for some kind of sign. A sign to tell me what to do, when to start, what my gift was, where my niche was so I would know what to do next. I’m thinking, though, that maybe there is never any one big moment in which it all becomes clear. Along the way there are dozens of little signs, little voices telling you what you need to know. You just have to be able to hear them. I think that is as big a moment of clarity as we get: the moment when we realize there are little voices and we can choose or not to listen to them. I’ve been struggling a lot of late with the idea of coming back to the web. I have had generously donated to me all the space for my site I could ever have asked for. This was donated to me a couple of months back, and since then I have often visited the engine of the space. It was comforting to know that I had a place there and I was immensely grateful that the site owner did not press me to be creative before I was ready. I have been daunted by the idea of transferring all the archives to a new space and all the re-coding that will involve as well as buckling to the intricacies of Graymatter, a system which allows you to design your entire site in FrontPage (or any other html editor) as long as you remember to use certain proprietary tags. Kind of apt, that, don’t you think? The idea that I should be able to design my site the way I want as long as I can follow some basic rules. Rules which are constant, unchanging and which, if you follow them, always deliver exactly what is promised. Soothing to a woman who was knocked off her feet by The Random. More than all that, though, I have been focused on making sure I presented the prettiest, savviest, most up to date flashiest site I can. I can spend an entire day, months even, on designing the packaging (and have, for that matter). At first because I was enthralled by a love for designing and learning to code and later because I did not want to leave myself open to criticism. I did not want to hear that my design sucked. Tonight, as I was thinking how funny it is that the worse you look, the more invisible you are, it came to me that the design of my site isn’t a real expression of who I am, any more than the clothes I wear are. That’s just about what I want you (the generic you) to *think I am. Over the years I had a web site, I’ve gotten letters from people thanking me for the help I provided, the direction I gave them, the hope or sense of commonality they felt when they read my words. I’ve had people thank me for being brave, being honest, being willing to share. I’ve even had people thank me for helping to save their lives. Not one of those letters ever began or ended with ‘btw, thanks for the great site design’. Someone said to me recently that being part of a site I had left had been like going to a symphony and not hearing the violins. I get e mail from people all the time asking when I am coming back because they miss reading me. These incredible, generous compliments have nothing to do with the way I look or the colors I choose for page design or makeup. They’re about my *voice. It’s about what I have to say. I don’t understand how, I don’t get the mechanism of how what I say translates to how it makes people feel, but I can hear the voice now that tells me that my voice matters. Some people make the world a better place through activism. Some by building towering monuments to the human spirit, some by saving lives, some by adopting stray pets. I will never get an award for best site design and I will never be part of any of the prestigious rings devoted to artistic expression. Because of my difficulties in social settings, I’m never going to do any of that *g* The only thing I have to offer is my voice and my view of the world: my past, my present, what there may be in the future. How I was shaped, what made me who I am, how I use it all to go on. The only thing I have that will ever have any worth or make any difference in anyone’s life (besides my children, who I will one day offer to the world with the hope they be treated well and fairly) is my voice. And the letters I have received from people thanking me for my help are all little signs. They were the voices I had been waiting for and ignored. I didn’t have any one moment in which I realized that. I didn’t lay in bed and get zapped with an epiphany-gram. I said a million years ago (and a million times since then) that the only thing which ever made it possible to live with my past was knowing I could use it to help someone else. In the time since I shut my site down, I have lost that, and the impact on my life has been immeasurable. There have been moments where it was very touch and go, to be honest. Nights where I took way too many pills, burned too long or too large, moments where my husband had to drag me back out of the street I had wandered into. I walked away from the only support system I have ever known and willingly gave up the only voice I had ever been allowed to have. I walked away from all the people who had helped me through so many moments and were so willing, if I would only let them, to help me through the next one. I walked away from being heard into a deafening silence that almost killed me. I don’t know why I walked away any more than I know why I came back, though I could point to factors. Nothing happened. Nothing changed. I do not know why I asked a store manager for a job application this afternoon instead of burning myself again and I do not know why tonight the idea of burning myself seems so attractive or why this letter has been so hard to write. No epiphanies, no burning bush. Just little signs I am learning to read, little voices I am learning to listen to. I do not promise not to kill myself (a loud voice, that one) and I won’t tell you what I cannot do because I don’t know anymore. I am opening a new site, and the design is really going to bite weenies. I can tell you that *g* And this will be its first entry, I think.

Response:

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