Let's hear it for our children

Question:

<snipped I wish I could take a magic pill that would make me *want* a ‘normal’ cookie-cutter life. I wish I could be happy as a worker-bee, I’m sure I would be much safer and happier. Ask any male that’s thought about it….being a man in America these days means that you get out of HS or college then you chain yourself to a desk for 4 decades until their force you to retire so they don’t have to pay full pension. Of course you have insurance, benefits, free drugs etc… but hell, you need them at that point.

Why do you think that is "normal?" Normal for our family is different than normal for any other family I know. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray

Response:

who have to put up with so much misunderstanding from their teachers and who have to struggle everyday just to cope with their schoolwork. My son has some wonderful traits but all his teachers see are the negative sides!

I told my son that should his teacher ever decide that it is her who is in need of some drugs that he should send her my way and I would let her know what I think might do the trick. He laughed. Jack Poetry may make us from time to time a little more aware of the deeper, unnamed feelings which form the substratum of our being, to which we rarely penetrate; for our lives are mostly a constant evasion of ourselves. T. S. Eliot

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bcpl.net…. Baltimore Co. public library? I use those terminals when I’m working in D.C…small world. In the 16 years I’ve had kids in school, they’ve never been in an classroom where they were expected to "sit at a desk for 7 hours." Relating my own expirence… Not only did I not say that "this is how everybody else is" but I made it clear that YMMV. = As for "sit at a desk for 40 years"…. My ADHD son? LOL! I don’t think it’s gonna happen. I’m the same way, but you’ll want to be prepared for a continuance of the abnormal. Having ADD means that for the most part you don’t fit in. Everybody I went to school with has a steady career, insurance, 2.5 kids, minivans and 401k’s.

I went to my (mumble mumble)th HS reunion a couple of weeks ago. It’s a very small private school in New England. The handful of classmates who attended were pretty well established in careers: CEOs, CFOs, one tenured college prof, a commercial real estate broker in Boston–and me. I was the only Hawaiian shirt, the most hair and the only piercing. I have a resume that runs pages and pages. They all looked at me enviously. Personally, I don’t know all that many people who are still on the same career path they started. I graduated HS early and took off to Coasta Rica for 2 years to surf. When I came back I joined the USMC and made our top-tier SOF squad in my third year. I ride a motercycle without a helmet, I surf hurricane swells and I have no time to settle down for chit’lins.

It’s the typical ADD high-stim life. Many of us here can match you thrill-for-thrill. :) I wish I could take a magic pill that would make me *want* a ‘normal’ cookie-cutter life. I wish I could be happy as a worker-bee, I’m sure I would be much safer and happier.

From the little I know of you from your posts so far, I think you’d be miserable in that kind of life–"magic pill" or not. We make our own safety and our own happiness. Ask any male that’s thought about it….being a man in America these days means that you get out of HS or college then you chain yourself to a desk for 4 decades until their force you to retire so they don’t have to pay full pension.

No one that I know has that kind of grim picture. Joe Parsons

Response:

<snipped I graduated HS early and took off to Coasta Rica for 2 years to surf. When I came back I joined the USMC and made our top-tier SOF squad in my third year. I ride a motercycle without a helmet, I surf hurricane swells and I have no time to settle down for chit’lins. It’s the typical ADD high-stim life. Many of us here can match you thrill-for-thrill. :)

As much as I say I want a nice, calm, peaceful life, look at what I did over the weekend. I love doing the rodeo/horseshow stuff. Only problem is that with the health problems I’ve had the last few months, I’m totally worn out today. It’s not that I really overdid it this weekend, but getting out for 3 days in 100+*F temps sapped every bit of my strength. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray

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I’m sorry, I must rant. I cringe when people fill their head with this crap. It is a genetic mutation to make people impulsive and breed abundantly. Seeing as this is such a wonderful gift, a true sign of a "great mind", why is it so many adopted children tend to have it? This obviously coming from my depressed-agnostic view of the world, but I cannot help but feel angry when one sees that both sides of my family suffer from this. Obviously, I cannot blame it for everything that has happened to me, but when one finds a common profile and books full of similar stories, one cannot help but get very angry. Too bad I’m not a stupid catholic and just thinks "God made me this way for a reason" as I pump out my 3rd child in a row with down-syndrome. Again, I’m sorry, I got thrown out of Catholic school. So did two of my uncles. Btw, one of them killed him-self. "It is the restless kid who ends up in jail. It is the restless kid who turns to drugs. It is the restless kid who is the social misfit. It is the restless kid that brings a gun to school. It is the restless kid who never graduates." It is also more than just restlessness and not being able to sit still. It is about being able to get through the boring sections of a book, or perhaps being able to get through boring class materials. Perhaps then once one gets through the boring material, one could develop a love of science, math, reading, philosophy, but we tend to prefer things that produce immediate stimulus such as drugs, gambling, sex, and other high-risk activities. -Jeff P.S. Do some research on many of those inventors. Just in my 10 minute research, it seems many of them had "undistinguised" academic careers, in a time when next to noone got an appreciable amount of schooling. The true ADDers were probably at the brothels. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – who have to put up with so much misunderstanding from their teachers and who have to struggle everyday just to cope with their schoolwork. My son has some wonderful traits but all his teachers see are the negative sides! Yup, 10,000 yrs ago, it was the restless kid who invented the wheel, 4,000 years ago it was the restless kid who came up w/ the concept of monotheism, since…it was the restless kid who came up with the telescope, the theory of gravity, the concept of germs, the polio vaccine, the internal combustion engine, the Cistine chapel, the Oracle at Delphi, the journey across the Atlantic, the covered-wagons across the American West. It’s the restless kid that runs into burning buildings with a firehose, jumps out of airplanes over Afghanistan with a rifle, and drives the economy on the NYSE floor. Early last century, a man who couldn’t keep the ‘racing thoughts’ out of his head wroted down E=mc^2–touching off perhaps 500 years of new possibilities in physics. Today, it’s the restless kids who are drugged so that they can do the unnatural: sit at a desk for 7 hrs in the prime of their childhood, training to sit in a desk for 40 years until retirement. Sorry Mrs. Wendy…was I ranting again? =] PS: I don’t have any kids, but I am, myself ADD…and while I’ve done none of these things (except for jumping out of a plane over Afghanistan…and struggling to sit in a desk for 7 hrs at the age of 10), I’ve discovered since I’ve started studying history that everyone who was anyone in history (with very few exceptions) exibited traits that would have them on medication today. -TacoKeeses

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Wasn’t the ‘unified theory’ bunk, admitted by Einstein? Wasn’t that the theory that held the ‘cosmic constant’ that is basically pulled out of thin air to explain things for which we have explainations for now (not very good ones though)? Yes, you are ranting.

But I had a smilie….I was unaware there were those here that would take such offense to obvious truths. Maybe you guys should put an ‘asshole’ clause in the faq? I don’t recall, are you on meds? Because it has been my experience that the meds do not make me less creative, they make it possible for me to actually do something with the ideas that I have.

ooooo, it’s the defensive thing. Nevermind on the other stuff….I get it. You needn’t take it personally when someone isn’t enamoured w/ meds. -TacoKeeses

Response:

I’m still trying to figure this one out myself. Even for a non-ADDer it has to be about as entertaining as watching paint dry. Unless those damn soccer games are really that amusing. My father’s life consists of work-sleep and after 30 iterations pay-bills. He’s about as happy as nothing. I try to atleast understand how sane and rational people think, and this one is still beyond me. I look at it as "boat versus changing diapers", and I seriously could not wish to pass my cloudy brain on anyone, even my worst enemy. A few of my older (and surprisingly still single) friends say its to shutup the wife. -Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bcpl.net…. Baltimore Co. public library? I use those terminals when I’m working in D.C…small world. In the 16 years I’ve had kids in school, they’ve never been in an classroom where they were expected to "sit at a desk for 7 hours." Relating my own expirence… Not only did I not say that "this is how everybody else is" but I made it clear that YMMV. = As for "sit at a desk for 40 years"…. My ADHD son? LOL! I don’t think it’s gonna happen. I’m the same way, but you’ll want to be prepared for a continuance of the abnormal. Having ADD means that for the most part you don’t fit in. Everybody I went to school with has a steady career, insurance, 2.5 kids, minivans and 401k’s. I graduated HS early and took off to Coasta Rica for 2 years to surf. When I came back I joined the USMC and made our top-tier SOF squad in my third year. I ride a motercycle without a helmet, I surf hurricane swells and I have no time to settle down for chit’lins. I wish I could take a magic pill that would make me *want* a ‘normal’ cookie-cutter life. I wish I could be happy as a worker-bee, I’m sure I would be much safer and happier. Ask any male that’s thought about it….being a man in America these days means that you get out of HS or college then you chain yourself to a desk for 4 decades until their force you to retire so they don’t have to pay full pension. Of course you have insurance, benefits, free drugs etc… but hell, you need them at that point. -TacoKeeses

Response:

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I’m pretty sure you ‘missed it’. -TacoKeeses It’s just Joe splitting hairs for the sake of egocentricity, fun and profit again. Happens to all dissenters in this forum sooner or later. You need to learn not to take him seriously.

=] ’salright…..I don’t take anyone here (especially myself) seriously….afterall we’re all either ‘crazy’, or have ‘crazy’ offspring. -TacoKeeses

Response:

Today, it’s the restless kids who are drugged so that they can do the unnatural: sit at a desk for 7 hrs in the prime of their childhood, training to sit in a desk for 40 years until retirement. Could you help me understand what it is that I missed? I am not aware of any schools (although I’m sure they exist, somewhere) where kids "sit at a desk for 7hrs."

LOL, what do you think ‘class’ is? Maybe pub school is all recess these days, maybe I missed something? The fact that there is this government-mandated educational system is a little creepy when you think about it in a historical context. Our psychology is that of a ‘pack’, much like say a wolves, or gorillas. The pub education system that I went through is more of a ‘herd’ mentality like, say, cattle. The one-size-fits-all approach to education (still) tells little boys that are basically normal that they need to be medicated and it’s a bit scarey. And many ADDers–treated or not–gravitate to vocations where they specifically do NOT "sit at a desk:" sales, the arts, entertainment, law enforcement–even some aspects of the military, for

starters. Right, but in my expirence w/ public schooling….you have no choice what to gravitate to. Again, maybe it’s different now but I doubt it. I maintain that it’s unnatural to take a little boy and stuff him in a room for unending hours on a beautiful day when he should be out playing ‘Tom Sawyer’. Still, it’s much easier to dope them up and make a ’square peg fit a round hole’ in our society. I’m not blanketly condemning anything or anyone. I’m on add meds, and I’m no social revolutionary (hell, I’m a conservative Republican!) It’s all about feeding the need for stimulation. In many public schools, the kid may need parental activism to get the education s/he’s entitled to. Sometimes that’s a tall order–but it *is* deliverable.

Ya, I imagine so. There was no such animal as ‘add’ when I was a young’un. I was just ‘lazy’ and sometimes ’stupid’. I was also told there was something wrong with me when in 6th grade history, I read an account of a slave recounting how his family was divided and sold in S.C. and wept. /scratches chin -TacoKeeses

Response:

<snipped Why don’t you tell us about your son’s wonderful traits? He is wonderfully creative, he is very loving and considerate. He helps around the house without complaint(something his elder brother can’t manage). He cares about people, especially when we go to London and see them sleeping in the doorways.Last time he saw an elderly man and gave him his pizza and a cup of tea. He gives half of his pocket money to the hungry children in Africa.

That’s a wonderful young man you have there. Teach him not to allow them destroy that. His reacting in ways that are not him is allowing them to change who he is. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray

Response:

PS: I don’t have any kids, but I am, myself ADD… With respect, this explains a great deal.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I’m pretty sure you ‘missed it’. -TacoKeeses

Response:

bcpl.net…. Baltimore Co. public library? I use those terminals when I’m working in D.C…small world. In the 16 years I’ve had kids in school, they’ve never been in an classroom where they were expected to "sit at a desk for 7 hours."

Relating my own expirence… Not only did I not say that "this is how everybody else is" but I made it clear that YMMV. = As for "sit at a desk for 40 years"…. My ADHD son? LOL! I don’t think it’s gonna happen.

I’m the same way, but you’ll want to be prepared for a continuance of the abnormal. Having ADD means that for the most part you don’t fit in. Everybody I went to school with has a steady career, insurance, 2.5 kids, minivans and 401k’s. I graduated HS early and took off to Coasta Rica for 2 years to surf. When I came back I joined the USMC and made our top-tier SOF squad in my third year. I ride a motercycle without a helmet, I surf hurricane swells and I have no time to settle down for chit’lins. I wish I could take a magic pill that would make me *want* a ‘normal’ cookie-cutter life. I wish I could be happy as a worker-bee, I’m sure I would be much safer and happier. Ask any male that’s thought about it….being a man in America these days means that you get out of HS or college then you chain yourself to a desk for 4 decades until their force you to retire so they don’t have to pay full pension. Of course you have insurance, benefits, free drugs etc… but hell, you need them at that point. -TacoKeeses

Response:

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I’m pretty sure you ‘missed it’. -TacoKeeses

It’s just Joe splitting hairs for the sake of egocentricity, fun and profit again. Happens to all dissenters in this forum sooner or later. You need to learn not to take him seriously.

Response:

PS: I don’t have any kids, but I am, myself ADD… With respect, this explains a great deal. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I’m pretty sure you ‘missed it’.

Today, it’s the restless kids who are drugged so that they can do the unnatural: sit at a desk for 7 hrs in the prime of their childhood, training to sit in a desk for 40 years until retirement.

Could you help me understand what it is that I missed? I am not aware of any schools (although I’m sure they exist, somewhere) where kids "sit at a desk for 7hrs." And many ADDers–treated or not–gravitate to vocations where they specifically do NOT "sit at a desk:" sales, the arts, entertainment, law enforcement–even some aspects of the military, for starters. It’s all about feeding the need for stimulation. In many public schools, the kid may need parental activism to get the education s/he’s entitled to. Sometimes that’s a tall order–but it *is* deliverable. Joe Parsons

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – who have to put up with so much misunderstanding from their teachers and who have to struggle everyday just to cope with their schoolwork. My son has some wonderful traits but all his teachers see are the negative sides! Yup, 10,000 yrs ago, it was the restless kid who invented the wheel, 4,000 years ago it was the restless kid who came up w/ the concept of monotheism, since…it was the restless kid who came up with the telescope, the theory of gravity, the concept of germs, the polio vaccine, the internal combustion engine, the Cistine chapel, the Oracle at Delphi, the journey across the Atlantic, the covered-wagons across the American West. It’s the restless kid that runs into burning buildings with a firehose, jumps out of airplanes over Afghanistan with a rifle, and drives the economy on the NYSE floor. Early last century, a man who couldn’t keep the ‘racing thoughts’ out of his head wroted down E=mc^2–touching off perhaps 500 years of new possibilities in physics.

However Einstein did not manage to finish the theory of the unified field, which has since been one of the Holy Grails of physics. Maybe if he had been on meds he would have been able to focus well enough to finish it. Today, it’s the restless kids who are drugged so that they can do the unnatural: sit at a desk for 7 hrs in the prime of their childhood, training to sit in a desk for 40 years until retirement. Sorry Mrs. Wendy…was I ranting again? =]

Yes, you are ranting. PS: I don’t have any kids, but I am, myself ADD…and while I’ve done none of these things (except for jumping out of a plane over Afghanistan…and struggling to sit in a desk for 7 hrs at the age of 10), I’ve discovered since I’ve started studying history that everyone who was anyone in history (with very few exceptions) exibited traits that would have them on medication today.

I don’t recall, are you on meds? Because it has been my experience that the meds do not make me less creative, they make it possible for me to actually do something with the ideas that I have. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – who have to put up with so much misunderstanding from their teachers and who have to struggle everyday just to cope with their schoolwork. My son has some wonderful traits but all his teachers see are the negative sides! My OS and I have had plenty of experience with the struggle to cope and the misunderstandings from teachers about how ADHD impacted his sometimes extraordinary abilities and talents. OTOH, I suppose we were very fortunate in that his teachers were generally able to see those abilities and talents. Of course, sometimes that was part of the problem. The teachers sometimes didn’t understand how someone with his abilities and talents, even with all his struggles, couldn’t do what his less able and talented peers could do so easily.

You bring something up that occurs to me- just because my son has an IQ of 140 he is expected to perform at that level- anything less and he is not trying hard enough. How is this impacting him–and you?

He gets very angry with his teachers to the point of rudeness at times- he tells me they just do not listen to him when he says he can’t do it- he is obviously very frustrated now.I am now in the position because of my continual complaining about how they view him that I have been banned from talking to school and must put every little comment in writing! Why don’t you tell us about your son’s wonderful traits?

He is wonderfully creative, he is very loving and considerate. He helps around the house without complaint(something his elder brother can’t manage). He cares about people, especially when we go to London and see them sleeping in the doorways.Last time he saw an elderly man and gave him his pizza and a cup of tea. He gives half of his pocket money to the hungry children in Africa. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe someone here can help you figure out some way to open the eyes of his teachers or lessening the impact of their negativeness on him and you. And even if they can’t, you may feel better sharing the wonderfulness of your son. Nancy Unique, like everyone else

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Hear! Hear! This is one of the reasons we decided to switch from public education to home education. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray

Response:

Today, it’s the restless kids who are drugged so that they can do the unnatural: sit at a desk for 7 hrs in the prime of their childhood, training to sit in a desk for 40 years until retirement.

In the 16 years I’ve had kids in school, they’ve never been in an classroom where they were expected to "sit at a desk for 7 hours." At least in their schools, not only is there lots of movement between classes, even in elementary school, but there’s quite a bit of moving around and interactive group work within the classroom. It’s sitting for *7 minutes* at a time that was the problem for my ADHDer. (He didn’t move around the classroom or anything like that, but he was always very fidgety, squirmy.) As for "sit at a desk for 40 years"…. My ADHD son? LOL! I don’t think it’s gonna happen. Nancy Unique, like everyone else

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<snipped I have raised two daughters, one of whom is clearly inattentive ADHD. Both prospered through public school and both are successful today in their lives and careers.

I have the combined version, but I did well in public school. Of course, I was in a small, rural school. My family has lived in that area for several generations, so everyone knew us. If I ever did anything noteworthy, good or bad, my family knew about it before I got home. The hyperactive portions of my AD/HD showed in things like fidgeting and chewing my fingernails. They inattentive portions showed in my inability to stay focused on what was going on in class, except when it came to basketball, disections, etc. The thing is, I was *allowed* to split my focus as needed, so long as I didn’t cause trouble and kept my grades up. I was even allowed to sleep in class, so long as I kept up my grades. What my children experienced in public school was vastly different from what I experienced as a student. Because we believe in providing children with the learning environment each one needs, we removed them from the environment that was harmful. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray

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<snip Sorry Mrs. Wendy…was I ranting again? =]

<snip Actually, this is by far the most articulate and truthful thing I’ve heard in this forum to date. Please keep on ‘ranting’ – our kids need more like you. :-)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – who have to put up with so much misunderstanding from their teachers and who have to struggle everyday just to cope with their schoolwork. My son has some wonderful traits but all his teachers see are the negative sides! Yup, 10,000 yrs ago, it was the restless kid who invented the wheel, 4,000 years ago it was the restless kid who came up w/ the concept of monotheism, since…it was the restless kid who came up with the telescope, the theory of gravity, the concept of germs, the polio vaccine, the internal combustion engine, the Cistine chapel, the Oracle at Delphi, the journey across the Atlantic, the covered-wagons across the American West. It’s the restless kid that runs into burning buildings with a firehose, jumps out of airplanes over Afghanistan with a rifle, and drives the economy on the NYSE floor. Early last century, a man who couldn’t keep the ‘racing thoughts’ out of his head wroted down E=mc^2–touching off perhaps 500 years of new possibilities in physics. Today, it’s the restless kids who are drugged so that they can do the unnatural: sit at a desk for 7 hrs in the prime of their childhood, training to sit in a desk for 40 years until retirement.

You’ve written a lot to agree with; but I find the last bit quite off the mark. I have raised two daughters, one of whom is clearly inattentive ADHD. Both prospered through public school and both are successful today in their lives and careers. The reason their experience in school and beyond has been so successful is quite simple: their parents were pro-actively involved in their education from the beginning. Any education program depends upon a certain amount of participation in order to work–but absent that participation (and often pro-active parenting), with overcrowded and underfunded classrooms it’s not at all surprising that *many* kids (not just those who are ADHD) may languish. If you hang around ASAD for any length of time, you’ll learn just how pro-active parents are for their kids. PS: I don’t have any kids, but I am, myself ADD…

With respect, this explains a great deal. Joe Parsons

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Yup, 10,000 yrs ago, it was the restless kid who invented the wheel, 4,000 years ago it was the restless kid who came up w/ the concept of monotheism, since…it was the restless kid who came up with the telescope, the theory of gravity, the concept of germs, the polio vaccine, the internal combustion engine, the Cistine chapel, the Oracle at Delphi, the journey across the Atlantic, the covered-wagons across the American West. It’s the restless kid that runs into burning buildings with a firehose, jumps out of airplanes over Afghanistan with a rifle, and drives the economy on the NYSE floor. Early last century, a man who couldn’t keep the ‘racing thoughts’ out of his head wroted down E=mc^2–touching off perhaps 500 years of new possibilities in physics. Today, it’s the restless kids who are drugged so that they can do the unnatural: sit at a desk for 7 hrs in the prime of their childhood, training to sit in a desk for 40 years until retirement. Sorry Mrs. Wendy…was I ranting again? =] PS: I don’t have any kids, but I am, myself ADD…and while I’ve done none of these things (except for jumping out of a plane over Afghanistan…and struggling to sit in a desk for 7 hrs at the age of 10), I’ve discovered since I’ve started studying history that everyone who was anyone in history (with very few exceptions) exibited traits that would have them on medication today. -TacoKeeses

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I am very sorry to hear that. My kids’ teachers do appreciate their good sides, and it makes a huge difference. I hope you have more luck next year.

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