Filed under: Rights Activism
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<SNIP NAAFA is a non-profit human rights organization dedicated to improving the quality of life for fat people. NAAFA has been working since 1969 to eliminate discrimination based on body size and provide fat people with the tools for self-empowerment through public education, advocacy, and member support.
I’d rather improve MY quality of life by attaining a "normal" weight with all the benefits that go with that. I *accepted* my fat for too many years. — Lori 210/168/150 LC since1/17/03
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May 10 – International No Diet Day Picnic Mason District Park 6621 Columbia Pike Annandale,VA 1 p.m. to dusk Come and enjoy spring with Capital Chapter of NAAFA at beautiful Mason District Park for "International No Diet Day". Bring your favorite CDs, games and a side dish to share with others. Hamburgers, hotdogs, beverages, paper goods and utensils are provided by the Chapter, but if you would like something different, please feel free to bring your own grillables. The pavilion has picnic tables with attached benches, so bring along your own comfortable folding chair if these types of benches aren’t to your liking. Also, please note that NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES are permitted in the park. $6.00 donation. DIRECTIONS: DOUBLE CHECK maps for routes from your area. Your mileage may vary. FROM 495: Take Beltway Exit 52B (Little River Turnpike, Route 236) East towards Annandale. Go appx 2 miles, turn left at John Marr Drive (Big K-mart on the corner), then turn right onto Columbia Pike. Turn right into park entrance (bottom of hill, just before Sleepy Hollow Road). After entering the park, bear right and follow road uphill and around to the picnic pavilion on your left Upcoming events calendar: http://www.capitalnaafa.org * May 31, Dance Party * Also check the website for information on BBW CARNIVAL CRUISE 2004!!!! Activism through socializing! NAAFA is a non-profit human rights organization dedicated to improving the quality of life for fat people. NAAFA has been working since 1969 to eliminate discrimination based on body size and provide fat people with the tools for self-empowerment through public education, advocacy, and member support. http://www.capitalnaafa.org/ Capital Chapter of NAAFA P.O. Box A McLean, VA 22101 703-912-1646
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The aged cold war yakkies are coming out of the woodwork once again. Hoping to see their Savior McCarthy arising from the grave.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is today’s FRONT PAGE ARTICLE in the New Philadephia, Ohio, Times Reporter This was not on the opinion page. We have no other newspaper to rely on. "We are always eager to hear from you, so feel free to send us e-mail at 364-5577." Area protest staged By GEORGE WUERTHELE, T-R Correspondent COSHOCTON – Oh, boy! Plug in the lava lamp, unfurl the bell-bottoms and fire up a stick of incense. The ’60s are back. Or so it seemed on Coshocton’s Courthouse Square Saturday afternoon, as a small band of pacifists, moralists and geriatric hippies convened to denounce the evil intent of the United States government, and to proclaim the moral superiority of their worldview. Unfazed by arctic weather, unfettered by the demands of logic or the lessons of history, they spoke out in a clear, if not always coherent voice. Anna Nixon, a kindergarten teacher, addressed the assembled faithful – 28 of them – from the steps of the square’s gazebo. She said that in the Middle East the United States is behaving "like a schoolyard bully," and that all Americans, including President Bush, must "relearn the three R’s – rights, reason and responsibility." She urged listeners to "learn to take responsibility for our actions," and to "return to the fold of the U.N." She also drew attention to a box that stood by the gazebo, where people could drop letters denouncing American foreign policy, which would then be forwarded to men and women serving in the American military. As she concluded her remarks, she briefly raised a mittened fist and led the faithful in a chant of "No war in Iraq – No war in Iraq." At that point the group hoisted their picket signs and began a march around the perimeter of the square. Their placards bore slogans made popular in the ’60s: "Give Peace A Chance," for example, and others that were adapted for current events – such as "The Bush Admin = Fascism at Work." The chants were recycled anti-Vietnam sloganeering – "Hey-Hey/Ho-Ho/War in Iraq/We say No." Nick Teti, one of the event’s organizers, says he opposes the war because of "all the needless killing." He categorically denied there is any connection between the regime in Iraq and terrorists dedicated to killing Americans. Asked about the $25,000 bounty Iraq pays to relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers, he said, "That’s not true!" Asked how he knew it isn’t true, he said, "How do you know it is true?" then turned to join the passing parade. Toward the end of the line stood Wayne Yoder, frequent candidate in Coshocton-area elections, who said, "We’re trying to make the world a better place, trying to keep it from being blown up," as he marched around the block beneath a collection of pacifistic bromides. Earlier in the afternoon, New Philadelphia attorney Richard Renner told the group, "There is a movement in this country for peace, and that movement is growing every day." He said, "In every continent, during every decade, nonviolence has worked to end the cycle of violence." Not only did Renner reject war, he rejected "all violence, capital punishment, concealed handguns, and . the hunger pains of poverty." His concern is shared by Tim Kettler, another organizer of the day’s events and founder of the sponsoring group, Coshocton County Coalition for Peace and Social Justice. "We hope to stimulate activism on the part of the people, to do that which the government seems to sidestep – handguns and gun violence, the economy and the way it relates to jobs for lower income people, issues against the war," Kettler said. Kettler led many of the various cheers, including one that urged to "Change the love of power with the power of love," which was repeated over and over. The group took about five minutes to get around the square, their peace-cries lost in the sound of passing traffic. After the demonstrators vacated, a group of boys entered the square, picked sides and had a snowball fight. We are always eager to hear from you, so feel free to send us e-mail at 364-5577.
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Here is today’s FRONT PAGE ARTICLE in the New Philadephia, Ohio, Times Reporter This was not on the opinion page. We have no other newspaper to rely on. "We are always eager to hear from you, so feel free to send us e-mail at 364-5577." Area protest staged By GEORGE WUERTHELE, T-R Correspondent COSHOCTON – Oh, boy! Plug in the lava lamp, unfurl the bell-bottoms and fire up a stick of incense. The ’60s are back. Or so it seemed on Coshocton’s Courthouse Square Saturday afternoon, as a small band of pacifists, moralists and geriatric hippies convened to denounce the evil intent of the United States government, and to proclaim the moral superiority of their worldview. Unfazed by arctic weather, unfettered by the demands of logic or the lessons of history, they spoke out in a clear, if not always coherent voice. Anna Nixon, a kindergarten teacher, addressed the assembled faithful – 28 of them – from the steps of the square’s gazebo. She said that in the Middle East the United States is behaving "like a schoolyard bully," and that all Americans, including President Bush, must "relearn the three R’s – rights, reason and responsibility." She urged listeners to "learn to take responsibility for our actions," and to "return to the fold of the U.N." She also drew attention to a box that stood by the gazebo, where people could drop letters denouncing American foreign policy, which would then be forwarded to men and women serving in the American military. As she concluded her remarks, she briefly raised a mittened fist and led the faithful in a chant of "No war in Iraq – No war in Iraq." At that point the group hoisted their picket signs and began a march around the perimeter of the square. Their placards bore slogans made popular in the ’60s: "Give Peace A Chance," for example, and others that were adapted for current events – such as "The Bush Admin = Fascism at Work." The chants were recycled anti-Vietnam sloganeering – "Hey-Hey/Ho-Ho/War in Iraq/We say No." Nick Teti, one of the event’s organizers, says he opposes the war because of "all the needless killing." He categorically denied there is any connection between the regime in Iraq and terrorists dedicated to killing Americans. Asked about the $25,000 bounty Iraq pays to relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers, he said, "That’s not true!" Asked how he knew it isn’t true, he said, "How do you know it is true?" then turned to join the passing parade. Toward the end of the line stood Wayne Yoder, frequent candidate in Coshocton-area elections, who said, "We’re trying to make the world a better place, trying to keep it from being blown up," as he marched around the block beneath a collection of pacifistic bromides. Earlier in the afternoon, New Philadelphia attorney Richard Renner told the group, "There is a movement in this country for peace, and that movement is growing every day." He said, "In every continent, during every decade, nonviolence has worked to end the cycle of violence." Not only did Renner reject war, he rejected "all violence, capital punishment, concealed handguns, and . the hunger pains of poverty." His concern is shared by Tim Kettler, another organizer of the day’s events and founder of the sponsoring group, Coshocton County Coalition for Peace and Social Justice. "We hope to stimulate activism on the part of the people, to do that which the government seems to sidestep – handguns and gun violence, the economy and the way it relates to jobs for lower income people, issues against the war," Kettler said. Kettler led many of the various cheers, including one that urged to "Change the love of power with the power of love," which was repeated over and over. The group took about five minutes to get around the square, their peace-cries lost in the sound of passing traffic. After the demonstrators vacated, a group of boys entered the square, picked sides and had a snowball fight. We are always eager to hear from you, so feel free to send us e-mail at
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University police, FBI, joining forces to track terrorism Mon Jan 27, 1:53 PM ET By ADAM GORLICK, Associated Press Writer AMHERST, Massachusetts – Campus police departments at some universities around the country are helping federal agents track potential terrorists, forming relationships that some professors and civil libertarians fear could threaten academic freedom. At universities in Massachusetts, Florida, Illinois and other states, campus police departments are loaning officers to the anti-terrorism task forces that were created by the FBI (news – web sites) after Sept. 11
SNIP SNIP If the program described above had been in effect for a decade, it would have had no effect on mail bomber Ted Kazinski (who was caught because his brother recognized his writng style in a newspaper), Tim McVeigh (who never attended any university), or the 9/11 terrorists (who went to flight schools, not accreditied universities, I think). None of the 9/11 terrorists came to the attention of their local police or any other police, I think. None of the first WTC bombers (truck bombers from NJ) came to the attention of campus police, I think. Offhand, I think that none of the terrorists was an Iraqi-born professor. Thus, it seems wasteful and stupid to question an Iraqi-born professor about his politics. Is the prof going to say that he’s a member of Al Qaida? The activities in the article are like a farmer who, after noticing that his horses occasionally escape from the barn when the barn door is open, starts using more expensive fertilizer on his turnips. The new policy will cost money but i sunlikely to solve or reeduce the problem. I don’t know if mail bomber Ted Kazinski was a terrorist. However, he was an American-born UC Berkeley math teacher before he started bombing. Naturally, the article does not mention questionning UC Berkeley professors born in America, or any other professor born in America. I guess that the next step is for universities to prohibit taking photographs while on campus. :-) In a jurisdiction which allows gambling, would it be legal to have apool on the place of the next terrorist attack. Some of the 2nd group of WTC terrorists went to college (in Germany, for example). If the above-described measures had been in effect in Germany, would they have prevented a terrorist attack on WTC? The ineffectual, wasteful program described in the article should be abolished, and the money wasted on it should be used to reduce the risk of terrorist attacks. Does anyone care to make any bets or predicitions on where and when the next terrorist incident will be?
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – University police, FBI, joining forces to track terrorism Mon Jan 27, 1:53 PM ET By ADAM GORLICK, Associated Press Writer AMHERST, Massachusetts – Campus police departments at some universities around the country are helping federal agents track potential terrorists, forming relationships that some professors and civil libertarians fear could threaten academic freedom. At universities in Massachusetts, Florida, Illinois and other states, campus police departments are loaning officers to the anti-terrorism task forces that were created by the FBI (news – web sites) after Sept. 11 SNIP SNIP If the program described above had been in effect for a decade, it would have had no effect on mail bomber Ted Kazinski (who was caught because his brother recognized his writng style in a newspaper), Tim McVeigh (who never attended any university), or the 9/11 terrorists (who went to flight schools, not accreditied universities, I think). None of the 9/11 terrorists came to the attention of their local police or any other police, I think. None of the first WTC bombers (truck bombers from NJ) came to the attention of campus police, I think.
It looks like much of the "anti-terrorism" procedures and activities taking place around the country are little more than window dressing designed to make people think their tax dollars aren’t being wasted in another religious war. These things don’t do anything to limit or adversely impact terrorist activities but they _do_ make some people feel "something is being done" even if they’re still duped into believing terrorism is really a threat.
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University police, FBI, joining forces to track terrorism Mon Jan 27, 1:53 PM ET By ADAM GORLICK, Associated Press Writer AMHERST, Massachusetts – Campus police departments at some universities around the country are helping federal agents track potential terrorists, forming relationships that some professors and civil libertarians fear could threaten academic freedom. At universities in Massachusetts, Florida, Illinois and other states, campus police departments are loaning officers to the anti-terrorism task forces that were created by the FBI (news – web sites) after Sept. 11 to increase the flow of information between local departments and federal agents. Some say it is a good idea to involve college campuses, which are often gateways into America for foreigners. Others worry that foreign students and professors will be too intimidated to offer ideas and join in political debates. Recently, University of Massachusetts professors became concerned when a UMass officer assigned to an FBI task force interviewed an Iraqi-born professor about his political views. The FBI would not give any details about the episode, and the professor said the questioning was brief and non-threatening. "No one wants to get in the way of people trying to bust terrorists," said Ernest May, secretary of the Faculty Senate at UMass. "But academic institutions can’t really function in a system where everyone is afraid to say something. I don’t think the relationship has had a chilling effect yet, but it could." Recently a professor-organized protest drew about 100 people, most of them university employees. UMass students, however, have not gotten particularly worked up about the cooperation. Nor have professors at other institutions, despite generations of resentment toward the presence of law enforcement officers on campus
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ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to Put Every American Under Scrutiny November 14, 2002 WASHINGTON – The American Civil Liberties Union today called on President Bush to disavow a new system being developed at the Pentagon that would be able to track every American’s activities. "Smile, you’re on virtual candid camera," said Laura W. Murphy, Director of the ACLU’s Washington National Office. "If the Pentagon has its way, every American – from the Nebraskan farmer to the Wall Street banker – will find themselves under the accusatory cyber-stare of an all-powerful national security apparatus." The Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is developing the system, which it has dubbed "Total Information Awareness," in its Information Awareness Office. That office is directed by former Reagan Administration official John Poindexter, who once said that it was his duty as the national security advisor to withhold information from Congress. The Total Information Awareness program will be — by Poindexter’s own public admission — the infrastructure for what the government hopes will be the most extensive electronic surveillance system in history. That vision is encapsulated in the logo for Poindexter’s office: the all-seeing eye and pyramid (prominent also on the one dollar bill) spying from above on the entire world. The office’s motto is Scientia Est Potentia, Latin for "Knowledge is Power." The ACLU concerns are somewhat similar to those expressed today by "card-carrying conservative" New York Times columnist William Safire that the program is a "supersnoop’s dream." The Total Information Awareness program would use the technology called data-mining – which is totally untested in the national security context — to ostensibly detect terrorist threats before they occur. Data-mining, currently used by private industry to track buying habits and target telemarketers, among other things, involves the computerized scrutiny of vast amounts of unrelated information in the hope of finding patterns that can predict future behavior. But the Total Information Awareness program goes further than any corporate cyber-snooping: it would link a huge number of commercial and governmental databases, both in America and overseas. These databases could presumably range from student grades to mental health histories to travel records. "Just as he scaled back the program that would have had neighbors spying on neighbors, President Bush must stop the Total Information Awareness program now," said Katie Corrigan, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "And if he refuses to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea."
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ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea."
+ Why? + What are you afraid of?
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ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea." + Why? + What are you afraid of?
Just like many of the founding fathers: a zealous, too powerful, government that will abolish my Constitutional rights as an American.
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ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea." + Why? + What are you afraid of?
I’m afraid that they’re going to completely trash the Constitution. At that point, no one will be safe because as soon as someone in the government decides they don’t like you, they’ll find something that looks incriminating (and *everybody* has something that at least looks that way) and use it to justify whatever they want. — Mike Jones If there is such a thing as absolute evil, it consists of treating another person as a thing. – John Brunner
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ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? I’m afraid that they’re going to completely trash the Constitution. At that point, no one will be safe because as soon as someone in the government decides they don’t like you, they’ll find something that looks incriminating (and *everybody* has something that at least looks that way) and use it to justify whatever they want.
+ And what makes you think that someone inside the government today can’t trash you? Stop and think about it. It is possible today for a policeman to trash you if he wants. Or your boss. Or someone who has access to your medical records. Or even the guy down the street. It is possible today to wreck a person’s life. + If you are a law abiding, tax paying citizen, what do you have to worry about? + All I have to do is a little research on you or anyone, and I can have your SSAN, DOB, place of employment, boss’s name and e-mail address, names of your wife and kids, school district, and aprox amount of money you owe. + This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding?
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? I’m afraid that they’re going to completely trash the Constitution. At that point, no one will be safe because as soon as someone in the government decides they don’t like you, they’ll find something that looks incriminating (and *everybody* has something that at least looks that way) and use it to justify whatever they want. + If you are a law abiding, tax paying citizen, what do you have to worry about?
That’s right, because we KNOW that the US Gov’t and police agencies NEVER make any mistakes. I’m not worried.
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+ This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding?
Oh, yes. It will be 100% effective, as all gov’t programs, with no room for grave errors. It will catch those who don’t want to be caught. Much like the way we caught Osama bin Laden. Oops.
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+ All I have to do is a little research on you or anyone, and I can have your SSAN, DOB, place of employment, boss’s name and e-mail address, names of your wife and kids, school district, and aprox amount of money you owe.
So why have you never managed to get my address right yet? — Alan "the Full Monty" Ferrit ()’.’.’() ( (T) ) ( ) . ( ) (")_(") eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 Denizen of Darkness #42 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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+ This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding? Oh, yes. It will be 100% effective, as all gov’t programs, with no room for grave errors. It will catch those who don’t want to be caught. Much like the way we caught Osama bin Laden. Oops.
Hey, do you not listen to Bush….."Finding Bin Laden is our No.1 Laden is not our No.1 priority" – when they failed to find him. — Alan "the Full Monty" Ferrit ()’.’.’() ( (T) ) ( ) . ( ) (")_(") eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 Denizen of Darkness #42 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? I’m afraid that they’re going to completely trash the Constitution. At that point, no one will be safe because as soon as someone in the government decides they don’t like you, they’ll find something that looks incriminating (and *everybody* has something that at least looks that way) and use it to justify whatever they want. + And what makes you think that someone inside the government today can’t trash you? Stop and think about it. It is possible today for a policeman to trash you if he wants. Or your boss. Or someone who has access to your medical records. Or even the guy down the street. It is possible today to wreck a person’s life.
That someone can destroy some of our individual tights today, does not mean we should give up, easily, any more rights. + If you are a law abiding, tax paying citizen, what do you have to worry about?
That argument, having had been used many times before, is ridiculous. Just because I may not use all of my rights allof the time, does not give the government any right to take away my rights. Whether I’m a criminal or not, I do have a right to have a government that is not tyranical. Our founding fathers knew that oneof the greatest threats to the rights of the individual was from an over zealous governmnet. That’s why they added the first ten ammendments. + All I have to do is a little research on you or anyone, and I can have your SSAN, DOB, place of employment, boss’s name and e-mail address, names of your wife and kids, school district, and aprox amount of money you owe.
Irrelivent. Privacy, as you indicate, has already been comprimised (too much). That does not mean further comprimises are acceptable. + This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding?
They search everyone’s mail, e-mail, telephone calls, personal contacts, family backgrounds, etc. etc., fishing for a few bad people. If you aren’t concerned about the government snooping, I suggest you might have liked a country where things like that are more common …. like Hitler’s German, or Stalin’s Russia. It is not a matter of hiding or not hiding, it is a matter of giving an overly zealous government the power to snoop into the lives of private, individual Americans.
Response:
ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerousidea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? Just like many of the founding fathers: a zealous, too powerful, government that will abolish my Constitutional rights as an American.
+ You see a conspiracy behind every tree? + Allowing the government to locate any person within its borders may just be a good thing. What makes you think you are special? Do you fall within a group that might be considered subversive? + Actually, I like the idea of knowing that there are no terrorists in the ball stadium that I attend today. + I enjoy the feeling of security that everyone is scanned, tagged, and OK’d in seconds. It cuts down on lines. + If you feel threatened, go visit a park. Stay at home. + Personally, I think life is to live in.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerousidea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? Just like many of the founding fathers: a zealous, too powerful, government that will abolish my Constitutional rights as an American. + You see a conspiracy behind every tree?
The article was based on fact, not imagined conspracies. + Allowing the government to locate any person within its borders may just be a good thing. What makes you think you are special?
I am an American Citizen. Allowing the government to have unlimited abilities and powers to invade my privacy and rights is illegal. What makes you think the Constitution isn’t special? Do you fall within a group that might be considered subversive?
Totally irrelivent! + Actually, I like the idea of knowing that there are no terrorists in the ball stadium that I attend today.
Would you be happy if the F.B.I. were at the gate, searched you and your wife and your kids, did a background check on you and your wife (knowing that once, back in the ’60s, you joined a legal protest against Wal-Mart because they didn’t carry your brand of shoelaces … and that would be enough to "red Flag" you to the F.B.I.)? Would you be happy with several armed F.B.I. agents surrounding you at the game – knowing that every time you shifted in your seat, or your son reached into his pocket – they would immediately put their hand on their weapons? Would you be happy knowing that the fact is .. even this would not deter a determined terrorist? + I enjoy the feeling of security that everyone is scanned, tagged, and OK’d in seconds. It cuts down on lines. + If you feel threatened, go visit a park. Stay at home. + Personally, I think life is to live in.
Then why are you satisfied that the government, George Bush, is impinging on all the freedoms that make this life pleasurable? Apparently your idea of pleasure is more akin to living in a police bomb van, for security, and having armed guards everywhere you go … watching yours, and everyone else’s, moves. That’s not life. Just ask the Russian and German citizens who had to live through it!
Response:
ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to Put Every American Under Scrutiny Why are you using a different handle?
As opposed to?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? I’m afraid that they’re going to completely trash the Constitution. At that point, no one will be safe because as soon as someone in the government decides they don’t like you, they’ll find something that looks incriminating (and *everybody* has something that at least looks that way) and use it to justify whatever they want. + And what makes you think that someone inside the government today can’t trash you? Stop and think about it. It is possible today for a policeman to trash you if he wants. Or your boss. Or someone who has access to your medical records. Or even the guy down the street. It is possible today to wreck a person’s life.
And that’s *wrong*. To make it easier is *more wrong.* + If you are a law abiding, tax paying citizen, what do you have to worry about?
1. The laws changing so that I feel a moral obligation to break them. 2. To put it in the vernacular, "being framed." 3. It doesn’t seem to concern you, but I’m concerned about the effects of the government on people other than myself, such as the roughly 1,100 people who are already on "no-fly" lists just because of political activism. The more power the government has, the easier it is for them to exercise this sort of control – if they don’t like what you do, or what you believe, they can do things other than arrest and imprison you. + All I have to do is a little research on you or anyone, and I can have your SSAN, DOB, place of employment, boss’s name and e-mail address, names of your wife and kids, school district, and aprox amount of money you owe. + This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding?
A desire for freedom, apparently. How about you? Nothing, I’m sure. You’re a good German, right? — Mike Jones If there is such a thing as absolute evil, it consists of treating another person as a thing. – John Brunner
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerousidea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? Just like many of the founding fathers: a zealous, too powerful, government that will abolish my Constitutional rights as an American. + You see a conspiracy behind every tree? + Allowing the government to locate any person within its borders may just be a good thing. What makes you think you are special? Do you fall within a group that might be considered subversive? + Actually, I like the idea of knowing that there are no terrorists in the ball stadium that I attend today.
If you ever have the money for a ticket and the concession stand… Paul
Response:
+ This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding? Oh, yes. It will be 100% effective, as all gov’t programs, with no room for grave errors. It will catch those who don’t want to be caught. Much like the way we caught Osama bin Laden. Oops.
+ Nothing is 100 percent effective. + People whined about them new motorized contraptions getting in the way of the horse and carriages. + Every new technology that brings about communication and information will have good points and bad. + Move to Montana. They have cabins in the Lincoln area.
Response:
Hey, do you not listen to Bush….."Finding Bin Laden is our No.1 Laden is not our No.1 priority" – when they failed to find him.
+ Talk to Tony Blair, our boy in UK. + He accepts your personal whining.
Response:
So why have you never managed to get my address right yet?
+ You gave me your address, alan. + Are you saying you lied to me? + I am merely holding on to your words. # 29 – remember?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerousidea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? I’m afraid that they’re going to completely trash the Constitution. At that point, no one will be safe because as soon as someone in the government decides they don’t like you, they’ll find something that looks incriminating (and *everybody* has something that at least looks that way) and use it to justify whatever they want. + And what makes you think that someone inside the government today can’t trash you? Stop and think about it. It is possible today for a policeman to trash you if he wants. Or your boss. Or someone who has access to your medical records. Or even the guy down the street. It is possible today to wreck a person’s life. That someone can destroy some of our individual tights today, does not mean we should give up, easily, any more rights.
+ What rights? + Exactly which rights do you think you have that the government wishes to TAKE AWAY from you? + The right to go to a ball game with no one recognizing you? + The right to purchase an airline ticket under an assumed name? + The right to drive a motorized vehicle on a public highway? + If you are a law abiding, tax paying citizen, what do you have to worry about? That argument, having had been used many times before, is ridiculous.
+ And your answer is even more so,. + Since it doesn’t answer my question. Just because I may not use all of my rights allof the time, does not give the government any right to take away my rights.
+ What rights? + Exactly what rights? + Please spell them out for me…… Whether I’m a criminal or not, I do have a right to have a government that is not tyranical.
+ Yup. I remember that right in the Bill. + Any more rights you demand? Our founding fathers knew that oneof the greatest threats to the rights of the individual was from an over zealous governmnet. That’s why they added the first ten ammendments.
+ Gosh – your history is well founded. Move forward 226 years. + All I have to do is a little research on you or anyone, and I can have your SSAN, DOB, place of employment, boss’s name and e-mail address, names of your wife and kids, school district, and aprox amount of money you owe. Irrelivent.
+ Why. + I thought these things bothered you. + They don’t? Privacy, as you indicate, has already been comprimised (too much). That does not mean further comprimises are acceptable.
+ What further compromises are bothering you? + Are you aware that John Walsh (America’s Most Wanted Host) said that 725,000 children come up missing EACH year. + Are any of these kids less important to you than their parents? + This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding? They search everyone’s mail, e-mail, telephone calls, personal contacts, family backgrounds, etc. etc., fishing for a few bad people.
+ They do? + In each case, the FBI uses court requests to do so. + We do it today, last week, last month, last decade. If you aren’t concerned about the government snooping, I suggest you might have liked a country where things like that are more common …. like Hitler’s German, or Stalin’s Russia.
+ Good answer. + Game over. + Whoever mentions Hitler first is the loozer. It is not a matter of hiding or not hiding, it is a matter of giving an overly zealous government the power to snoop into the lives of private, individual Americans.
+ What are you hiding? + What rights do you expect to have to give up?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to act, Congress should step in quickly and pull the plug on this dangerous idea." + Why? + What are you afraid of? I’m afraid that they’re going to completely trash the Constitution. At that point, no one will be safe because as soon as someone in the government decides they don’t like you, they’ll find something that looks incriminating (and *everybody* has something that at least looks that way) and use it to justify whatever they want. + And what makes you think that someone inside the government today can’t trash you? Stop and think about it. It is possible today for a policeman to trash you if he wants. Or your boss. Or someone who has access to your medical records. Or even the guy down the street. It is possible today to wreck a person’s life. And that’s *wrong*. To make it easier is *more wrong.*
+ What makes you think it will be more easy? + If you are a law abiding, tax paying citizen, what do you have to worry about? 1. The laws changing so that I feel a moral obligation to break them.
+ Which law? 2. To put it in the vernacular, "being framed."
+ It isn’t possible today? + Why do you think people will do it more tomorrow than today? 3. It doesn’t seem to concern you, but I’m concerned about the effects of the government on people other than myself, such as the roughly 1,100 people who are already on "no-fly" lists just because of political activism.
+ Do you wish to fly with them? + Should we allow o.o1 percent of the population frighten 99.98 percent of it? The more power the government has, the easier it is for them to exercise this sort of control – if they don’t like what you do, or what you believe, they can do things other than arrest and imprison you.
+ The sky is falling. + The sky is falling. + What power are you afriad of? + What do you think the govt is going to do to wreck YOUR life? + All I have to do is a little research on you or anyone, and I can have your SSAN, DOB, place of employment, boss’s name and e-mail address, names of your wife and kids, school district, and aprox amount of money you owe. + This cyber scheme merely allows the government to find people who don’t want to be found. What are you hiding? A desire for freedom, apparently. How about you? Nothing, I’m sure. You’re a good German, right?
+ You know the rules, don’t you? + The first person to mention Hitler LOOZES. + You are getting close. + Tell us what rights you have that you FEEL that the government is going to take from you. Then tell me why you feel this way. Stop generalizing.
Response:
I am an American Citizen. Allowing the government to have unlimited abilities and powers to invade my privacy and rights is illegal. What makes you think the Constitution isn’t special?
+ Our constitution is special. + As an American citizen, I volunteered and served during the Viet Nam conflict and Desert Storm. I spent 28 + years in the armed forces. Please do not question my loyalty. I made an oath to defend the constitution of the US on numerous occasions. + Now, back to you and your privacy. + What rights do you think that Big Brother is trying to take away. + Please be specific. Do you fall within a group that might be considered subversive? Totally irrelivent!
+ BS. I certainly want my FBI to keep an eye on all subversive groups within the USA. I want my CIA to have the pulse of those same groups overseas. I don’t particularly enjoy what happened on my birthday last year. Kinda ruined my party. + Actually, I like the idea of knowing that there are no terrorists in the ball stadium that I attend today. Would you be happy if the F.B.I. were at the gate, searched you and your wife and your kids, did a background check on you and your wife (knowing that once, back in the ’60s, you joined a legal protest against Wal-Mart because they didn’t carry your brand of shoelaces … and that would be enough to "red Flag" you to the F.B.I.)?
+ Do you really think this will happen? + You are one sad little dude to make up crap….. Would you be happy with several armed F.B.I. agents surrounding you at the game – knowing that every time you shifted in your seat, or your son reached into his pocket – they would immediately put their hand on their weapons?
+ I’ve had agents protecting me before, watching for others who may try to harm me. + It would be easier for cameras to look at each face as we walk into the stadium and compare each face against known criminals, subversives, terrorists, etc…. If the camera alerts, then, yes I wouldn’t mind if a cop were sent to ask a person for identification. + Simple, clean… safe. Would you be happy knowing that the fact is .. even this would not deter a determined terrorist?
+ Both of us know this. + The smart ones will be more difficult to find. + It is the really stupid ones that bother me the most. + I enjoy the feeling of security that everyone is scanned, tagged, and OK’d in seconds. It cuts down on lines. + If you feel threatened, go visit a park. Stay at home. + Personally, I think life is to live in. Then why are you satisfied that the government, George Bush, is impinging on all the freedoms that make this life pleasurable?
+ HOW? Apparently your idea of pleasure is more akin to living in a police bomb van, for security, and having armed guards everywhere you go … watching yours, and everyone else’s, moves.
+ Nope. + Look, I am a gun advocate. + I believe every citizen should be able to own arms. + I also believe in registration. + I also believe in responsibility in owning a weapon. + If your punk kid kills another punk kid with YOUR weapon, I believe that you should also be considered as liable for the murder. That’s not life. Just ask the Russian and German citizens who had to live through it!
+ Stop yer whining. + List the rights you think you will be giving up.
Response:
, Paul Duca again decided to add to the conversation with If you ever have the money for a ticket and the concession stand…
+ Paul, stop embarrassing yourself. + Come back when you can act like an adult.
Response:
+ Why? + What are you afraid of?
Unless one has been charged with a criminal act, or are under investigation for one, under a warrant issued for proabable cause, it is none of the governments business what you do or where you are. How do you define unreasonable search and seizure? Is it reasonable to allow the government to search your financial records without probable cause? How about determining who you phone? Where do you draw a line on intrusion into your personal dealings? Paul
Response:
+ Why? + What are you afraid of? Unless one has been charged with a criminal act, or are under investigation for one, under a warrant issued for proabable cause, it is none of the governments business what you do or where you are.
+ That is right. + And, what’s more, they don’t care now. They won’t care in the future. How do you define unreasonable search and seizure?
+ I don’t. + I don’t find it important to at this time. + I’ve been stopped because the car I was driving fits a profile. + No problem … let me go. + I’ve been stopped for minor traffic violations. + No problem. That is their job. + Ive had airport security look at my shoes. + No problem. That is what they are paid to do. Is it reasonable to allow the government to search your financial records without probable cause?
+ Nope. + And they won’t do it in the future unless there is probable cause. + I do like the idea that a flag trips if anyone spends a certain amount of money on *fertilizer,* then rents a u-haul truck, transfers a large amount of money, etc. I like the idea of people watching out for the general public. + Cops do it today. + We will just be giving them the tools that the bad guys already have. How about determining who you phone? Where do you draw a line on intrusion into your personal dealings?
+ Who in the world am I afraid of calling — where the government may decide that I need watching? + I am willing to give up some personal liberties that bad guys already have access to – if it comes to someone watching out for the good guys.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACLU Calls on President Bush to Disavow New Cyber-Spying Scheme That Seeks to Put Every American Under Scrutiny Why are you using a different handle? As opposed to? Are you denying that you post under another handle in this newsgroup?
Are you saying this would make an important difference in the grand scheme of things? Why don’t you concern youself with, and respnd to, the post instead of obsessing about the trivialities?
Response:
Question:
Oh G-d, not another one… So, Please do not feed the trolls.
<much snippage Then why did you repost the entire message
Response:
Oh G-d, not another one… So, Please do not feed the trolls.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following is from http://home.att.net/~eugenics/mac.htm And now we are paying the price. Murph JEWISH INVOLVEMENT IN SHAPING U.S. IMMIGRATION POLICY. Jewish radicals or leftists promoted open immigration in order to break-up any Anglo-Saxon hegemony in the United States. But this same pattern was used in other Western countries as well, to make them safe for Judaism. In their way of thinking, only countries where there is no cultural or racial majority could Jews feel safe from anti-Semitism. It mattered little to them whether any country (aside from Israel) had the right to determine their own destiny. It was incumbent upon these Jews to alter the very make-up of those countries they lived among, even while they themselves held dual loyalties with the United States and Israel. This activism was just one more hammer blow directed at preventing any mass movement that may interfere with their own evolutionary goals for dominance over culture, academics, and material wealth accumulation. And the safest immigrants to use for this purpose are any that are not European, and also would not challenge Jewish interests in the future. Flooding the country with Hispanics was especially beneficial, as they would not challenge Judaism in any intellectual field due to their low intelligence, and yet they were also a diverse group that had maintained allegiances and continued conflicts amongst themselves. Puerto Ricans dislike Mexicans and vice versa, and both groups are hostile to blacks. So these new immigrants would disrupt the American status quo without threatening it with another singularly powerful group that could also easily become anti-Semitic. The African American’s already here were also brought into this multiculturalism by way of monetary and intellectual support by Jewish groups. Until 1933, there were no black lawyers in the Jewish supported NAACP. The main purpose of Jewish support for black civil rights was to aid in their own Jewish efforts against gentiles, not concern for the well-being of blacks. Blacks, like immigrants, were just pawns in the ongoing group tribalism between gentiles and Jews, while the gentiles never understood that the civil rights movement was primarily a Jewish led movement, with gentiles recruited to legitimize it. It was always promoted as purely a moral issue. "Jews want cultural pluralism because of their long-term policy of [racial] non-assimilation and group solidarity" while fighting what they maintain is their greatest danger, "Anglo-Saxon (read Caucasian) nationalism as their greatest potential threat and they have tended to support black integration policies, presumably because such policies dilute Caucasian power and lessen the possibility of a cohesive, nationalist anti-Semitic Caucasian majority. At the same time, Jewish organizations have opposed a black nationalist position while pursuing an anti-assimilationist, nationalist group strategy for their own group." The 1924 immigration act was a highly debated and emotional, one reported by Stephen Jay Gould as a racist attempt to restrict other groups because they were seen as being of lesser intelligence. But the Congressional Record and other observers and researchers of the debates report quite a different story. Again, the Jewish lobby was at the forefront of trying to open the flood gates of immigration. But the restrictionists, not only not racist, were very aware of the talents and competition that other groups would bring with them, to the detriment of existing citizens. Senator Jones stated during the debates, "We admit that [the Japanese] are as able as we are, that they are as progressive as we are, that they are as honest as we are, that they are as brainy as we are, and that they are equal in all that goes to make a great people and nation." And Representative Miller described the Japanese as "a relentless and unconquerable competitor of our people wherever he places himself." S o contrary to what Gould would like to bring into the current debate on intelligence and race, the facts about the debates during the twenties were remarkably perceptive with regards to race realism and in no way were racist. We were in fact fearful of others who were more intelligent and driven than the average American. Again, Representative Leavitt indicated the salience of Jewish congressmen to their opponents during the debate, " The instinct for national and race preservation is not one to be condemned, as has been intimated here. No one should be better able to understand the desire of Americans to keep America American than the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Sabath], who is leading the attack on this measure, or the gentlemen from New York, Mr. Dickstein, Mr. Jacobstein, Mr. Celler, and Mr. Perlman. They are of the one great historic people who have maintained the identity of their race throughout the centuries because they believe sincerely that they are a chosen people, with certain ideals to maintain, and knowing that the loss of racial identity means a change of ideals. That fact should make it easy for them and the majority of the most active opponents of this measure in the spoken debate to recognize and sympathize with our viewpoint, which is not so extreme as that of their own race, but only demands that the admixture of other peoples shall be only of such kind and proportions and in such quantities as will not alter racial characteristics more rapidly than there can be assimilation as to ideas of government as well as of blood. (Cong. Rec., April 12, 1924, 6265–6266)." The Jews from the East during these debates were not welcome, not because of some supposed mental defect, but because they were viewed as being radicalized, unpatriotic, infected with Bolshevism, and unassimilable. Contrary to what has been portrayed, it was the racist nature of this group, th eir unwillingness to marry out, there view of Judaism not as a religion but as a racially superior group opposed to allowing gentiles to convert to Judaism, and there secular separateness that made them unwelcome. These were cultural, not racial reasons for not wanting them to immigrate to the United States, because it was understood that as a blood cult, they would in fact resist the very assimilation they accused others of trying to shun. As it turns out, they did in fact behave exactly as those resisting the 1924 immigration act predicted, and have continued dual patriotism and have not assimilated into American culture. But the relentless Jewish lobby finally won out. From 1953 with the passage of the McCarran-Walter Act to restrict immigration, until the 1965 immigration act that opened the flood gates to immigration, America would be no more. And even now they are rejoicing that by 2050, whites will be in the minority and no longer able to interfere with Jewish interests. "The implicit assumption [of Jewish groups] is that the United States ought to be composed of cohesive subgroups with a clear sense of their group interests in opposition to the peoples deriving from Northern and Western Europe or of the United States as a whole. Also, there is the implication that Italian Americans have an interest in furthering immigration of Africans and Asians and in creating such a multiracial and multicultural society." The Jewish radicals clearly saw a distinct group of Europeans as the enemy, one to be destroyed and annihilated by immigration. How could they have not seen that as secularism grows, white people can coalesce around a common threat. As others, much more different than us enter the United States, old rivalries based on religion or ethnic differences will melt away. The new Nordic or Aryan threat is no more because those people did in fact give up their racialist ways and assimilated. But primarily with other groups that equally could be a problem for Jewish hegemony over the West. It was a bad gamble, and even now as immigration continues it is mobilizing the very forces that it was supposed to obliterate. Whites everywhere are beginning to wake up and take action, and it will not be forgotten from where this tragedy began and for what purpose. To destroy the dominant white culture in a world where diversity was to be cherished, not destroyed. The hypocrisy and lies are now exposed. The following are websites for people of European descent: http://www.amren.com/ http://www.vdare.org/ http://www.newnation.org/ http://www.euroknowledge.net/ http://www.davidduke.org/ http://www.whitecivilrights.com/ http://www.natvan.com/ http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/ http://www.commonsenseclub.com/ http://www.mlking.org/ http://www.naawp.com/ http://www.mankind.org/ http://lrainc.com/swtaboo/ http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.com/ http://www.cycad.com/cgi-bin/pinc/index.html http://www.eugenics.net/ http://eugenics.home.att.net/ http://www.p-m-s.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.mugu.com/upstream-list-archive/current/index.html http://www.euvolution.com/
… read more »
Response:
The following is from http://home.att.net/~eugenics/mac.htm
And now we are paying the price. Murph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JEWISH INVOLVEMENT IN SHAPING U.S. IMMIGRATION POLICY. Jewish radicals or leftists promoted open immigration in order to break-up any Anglo-Saxon hegemony in the United States. But this same pattern was used in other Western countries as well, to make them safe for Judaism. In their way of thinking, only countries where there is no cultural or racial majority could Jews feel safe from anti-Semitism. It mattered little to them whether any country (aside from Israel) had the right to determine their own destiny. It was incumbent upon these Jews to alter the very make-up of those countries they lived among, even while they themselves held dual loyalties with the United States and Israel. This activism was just one more hammer blow directed at preventing any mass movement that may interfere with their own evolutionary goals for dominance over culture, academics, and material wealth accumulation. And the safest immigrants to use for this purpose are any that are not European, and also would not challenge Jewish interests in the future. Flooding the country with Hispanics was especially beneficial, as they would not challenge Judaism in any intellectual field due to their low intelligence, and yet they were also a diverse group that had maintained allegiances and continued conflicts amongst themselves. Puerto Ricans dislike Mexicans and vice versa, and both groups are hostile to blacks. So these new immigrants would disrupt the American status quo without threatening it with another singularly powerful group that could also easily become anti-Semitic. The African American’s already here were also brought into this multiculturalism by way of monetary and intellectual support by Jewish groups. Until 1933, there were no black lawyers in the Jewish supported NAACP. The main purpose of Jewish support for black civil rights was to aid in their own Jewish efforts against gentiles, not concern for the well-being of blacks. Blacks, like immigrants, were just pawns in the ongoing group tribalism between gentiles and Jews, while the gentiles never understood that the civil rights movement was primarily a Jewish led movement, with gentiles recruited to legitimize it. It was always promoted as purely a moral issue. "Jews want cultural pluralism because of their long-term policy of [racial] non-assimilation and group solidarity" while fighting what they maintain is their greatest danger, "Anglo-Saxon (read Caucasian) nationalism as their greatest potential threat and they have tended to support black integration policies, presumably because such policies dilute Caucasian power and lessen the possibility of a cohesive, nationalist anti-Semitic Caucasian majority. At the same time, Jewish organizations have opposed a black nationalist position while pursuing an anti-assimilationist, nationalist group strategy for their own group." The 1924 immigration act was a highly debated and emotional, one reported by Stephen Jay Gould as a racist attempt to restrict other groups because they were seen as being of lesser intelligence. But the Congressional Record and other observers and researchers of the debates report quite a different story. Again, the Jewish lobby was at the forefront of trying to open the flood gates of immigration. But the restrictionists, not only not racist, were very aware of the talents and competition that other groups would bring with them, to the detriment of existing citizens. Senator Jones stated during the debates, "We admit that [the Japanese] are as able as we are, that they are as progressive as we are, that they are as honest as we are, that they are as brainy as we are, and that they are equal in all that goes to make a great people and nation." And Representative Miller described the Japanese as "a relentless and unconquerable competitor of our people wherever he places himself." S o contrary to what Gould would like to bring into the current debate on intelligence and race, the facts about the debates during the twenties were remarkably perceptive with regards to race realism and in no way were racist. We were in fact fearful of others who were more intelligent and driven than the average American. Again, Representative Leavitt indicated the salience of Jewish congressmen to their opponents during the debate, " The instinct for national and race preservation is not one to be condemned, as has been intimated here. No one should be better able to understand the desire of Americans to keep America American than the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Sabath], who is leading the attack on this measure, or the gentlemen from New York, Mr. Dickstein, Mr. Jacobstein, Mr. Celler, and Mr. Perlman. They are of the one great historic people who have maintained the identity of their race throughout the centuries because they believe sincerely that they are a chosen people, with certain ideals to maintain, and knowing that the loss of racial identity means a change of ideals. That fact should make it easy for them and the majority of the most active opponents of this measure in the spoken debate to recognize and sympathize with our viewpoint, which is not so extreme as that of their own race, but only demands that the admixture of other peoples shall be only of such kind and proportions and in such quantities as will not alter racial characteristics more rapidly than there can be assimilation as to ideas of government as well as of blood. (Cong. Rec., April 12, 1924, 6265–6266)." The Jews from the East during these debates were not welcome, not because of some supposed mental defect, but because they were viewed as being radicalized, unpatriotic, infected with Bolshevism, and unassimilable. Contrary to what has been portrayed, it was the racist nature of this group, th eir unwillingness to marry out, there view of Judaism not as a religion but as a racially superior group opposed to allowing gentiles to convert to Judaism, and there secular separateness that made them unwelcome. These were cultural, not racial reasons for not wanting them to immigrate to the United States, because it was understood that as a blood cult, they would in fact resist the very assimilation they accused others of trying to shun. As it turns out, they did in fact behave exactly as those resisting the 1924 immigration act predicted, and have continued dual patriotism and have not assimilated into American culture. But the relentless Jewish lobby finally won out. From 1953 with the passage of the McCarran-Walter Act to restrict immigration, until the 1965 immigration act that opened the flood gates to immigration, America would be no more. And even now they are rejoicing that by 2050, whites will be in the minority and no longer able to interfere with Jewish interests. "The implicit assumption [of Jewish groups] is that the United States ought to be composed of cohesive subgroups with a clear sense of their group interests in opposition to the peoples deriving from Northern and Western Europe or of the United States as a whole. Also, there is the implication that Italian Americans have an interest in furthering immigration of Africans and Asians and in creating such a multiracial and multicultural society." The Jewish radicals clearly saw a distinct group of Europeans as the enemy, one to be destroyed and annihilated by immigration. How could they have not seen that as secularism grows, white people can coalesce around a common threat. As others, much more different than us enter the United States, old rivalries based on religion or ethnic differences will melt away. The new Nordic or Aryan threat is no more because those people did in fact give up their racialist ways and assimilated. But primarily with other groups that equally could be a problem for Jewish hegemony over the West. It was a bad gamble, and even now as immigration continues it is mobilizing the very forces that it was supposed to obliterate. Whites everywhere are beginning to wake up and take action, and it will not be forgotten from where this tragedy began and for what purpose. To destroy the dominant white culture in a world where diversity was to be cherished, not destroyed. The hypocrisy and lies are now exposed. The following are websites for people of European descent: http://www.amren.com/ http://www.vdare.org/ http://www.newnation.org/ http://www.euroknowledge.net/ http://www.davidduke.org/ http://www.whitecivilrights.com/ http://www.natvan.com/ http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/ http://www.commonsenseclub.com/ http://www.mlking.org/ http://www.naawp.com/ http://www.mankind.org/ http://lrainc.com/swtaboo/ http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.com/ http://www.cycad.com/cgi-bin/pinc/index.html http://www.eugenics.net/ http://eugenics.home.att.net/ http://www.p-m-s.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.mugu.com/upstream-list-archive/current/index.html http://www.euvolution.com/ http://www.wcotc.com/euvolution/euvolution/ http://www.galton.org/ http://www.hbes.com/ http://www.prometheism.net/ http://www.cosmotheism.net/ http://www.kevin-strom.com/ http://www.thebirdman.org/ http://www.americanfreepress.net/ http://www.jewwatch.com/ http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/ http://www.overthrow.com/ http://www.stormfront.org/ http://www.stormfront.org/forum/ http://www.transtopia.org/ http://www.truthinmedia.org/ http://www.wcotc.com/
Response:
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have not had a chance to yet sign it, I have produced a petition for a United States constitutional amendment (28) to grant adoptees the right to possess their original birth certificates after the age of 18. I have also assigned a shortcut address for it so that it is easy to remember: http://amendment.cjb.net We should strive to get every citizen of the U.S. to sign this as it is not a triad only matter, but a matter of civil and human rights. Please sign the petition and send it to everyone (not just triad) that you know. All The Best, — Ray Buffer (DOB 9/2/69 Florida) – Visit my websites below: Let your voice be heard! Sign this petition for the Adoptee’s Amendment: http://amendment.cjb.net Visit my personal ADOPTEE page at: http://adoptee.cjb.net Join my WEBRING at: http://whoareyou.cjb.net Learn who the enemies of the triad are: http://obstacle.cjb.net Florida Triad members please sign this petition: http://petition.cjb.net Learn about human rights initiatives, adoption statistics and books: http://theeducatedadoptee.cjb.net The Genesis of Adoption and it’s evolution: http://genesisofadoption.cjb.net/ Contact celebrity adoptees and urge them to activism: http://famousadoptees.cjb.net/ My professional website is http://raybuffer.com uh sure. yeah. I’ll get right on it, Sport.
Yeah, I’m all over it too. Ghoulagirl. "Kim dictates how people think here. If she says it is so then they all believe it to be so. She lives in their heads, you see." – Di the Delusional Birthmother, 5/2/2002
Response:
If you have not had a chance to yet sign it, I have produced a petition for a United States constitutional amendment (28) to grant adoptees the right to possess their original birth certificates after the age of 18. I have also assigned a shortcut address for it so that it is easy to remember:
I didn’t see an internet petition anywhere in the process. http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/constitution/amendment_proce… Jeannette, bmom If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. A Deep Thought.. by Jack Handey
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have not had a chance to yet sign it, I have produced a petition for a United States constitutional amendment (28) to grant adoptees the right to possess their original birth certificates after the age of 18. I have also assigned a shortcut address for it so that it is easy to remember: I didn’t see an internet petition anywhere in the process. http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/constitution/amendment_proce…
Details, details. Ghoulagirl. "Kim dictates how people think here. If she says it is so then they all believe it to be so. She lives in their heads, you see." – Di the Delusional Birthmother, 5/2/2002
Response:
If you have not had a chance to yet sign it, I have produced a petition for a United States constitutional amendment (28) to grant adoptees the right to possess their original birth certificates after the age of 18. I have also assigned a shortcut address for it so that it is easy to remember: http://amendment.cjb.net We should strive to get every citizen of the U.S. to sign this as it is not a triad only matter, but a matter of civil and human rights. Please sign the petition and send it to everyone (not just triad) that you know. All The Best, — Ray Buffer (DOB 9/2/69 Florida) – Visit my websites below: Let your voice be heard! Sign this petition for the Adoptee’s Amendment: http://amendment.cjb.net Visit my personal ADOPTEE page at: http://adoptee.cjb.net Join my WEBRING at: http://whoareyou.cjb.net Learn who the enemies of the triad are: http://obstacle.cjb.net Florida Triad members please sign this petition: http://petition.cjb.net Learn about human rights initiatives, adoption statistics and books: http://theeducatedadoptee.cjb.net The Genesis of Adoption and it’s evolution: http://genesisofadoption.cjb.net/ Contact celebrity adoptees and urge them to activism: http://famousadoptees.cjb.net/ My professional website is http://raybuffer.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have not had a chance to yet sign it, I have produced a petition for a United States constitutional amendment (28) to grant adoptees the right to possess their original birth certificates after the age of 18. I have also assigned a shortcut address for it so that it is easy to remember: http://amendment.cjb.net We should strive to get every citizen of the U.S. to sign this as it is not a triad only matter, but a matter of civil and human rights. Please sign the petition and send it to everyone (not just triad) that you know. All The Best, — Ray Buffer (DOB 9/2/69 Florida) – Visit my websites below: Let your voice be heard! Sign this petition for the Adoptee’s Amendment: http://amendment.cjb.net Visit my personal ADOPTEE page at: http://adoptee.cjb.net Join my WEBRING at: http://whoareyou.cjb.net Learn who the enemies of the triad are: http://obstacle.cjb.net Florida Triad members please sign this petition: http://petition.cjb.net Learn about human rights initiatives, adoption statistics and books: http://theeducatedadoptee.cjb.net The Genesis of Adoption and it’s evolution: http://genesisofadoption.cjb.net/ Contact celebrity adoptees and urge them to activism: http://famousadoptees.cjb.net/ My professional website is http://raybuffer.com
uh sure. yeah. I’ll get right on it, Sport.
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Question:
Anyway, it is clear that you have appointed yourself to determine the will of the Burmese people, And in your limited view of democracy, you believe that the party is "always right". (For those of you not grown up in Germany: There was a famous song in communist East Germany with the rhyme: "The party, the party is always right".) decide unilaterally that the national elections which the NLD won overwhelmingly are not valid.
Boy, you are willing to say anything!!! Here you compare the National League for Democracy, a Gandhi-inspired non-violent political party, with the cruel, violent and profoundly undemocratic East German Communist Party! You should tell the Burmese people what you say here: Their vote in national elections and their support for the NLD is not valid. That you are better placed to decide policies for them than are the leaders they elected. No, I pointed out that those elections took place 12 years ago. I’m surprised that you, who tries to teach me democracy, does not know that this normally means a limited period, in most countries about 4-5 years. The fact that the military prevented the take over of power does not mean that the NLD is elected forever. Perhaps it is better to leave these decisions to the Burmese, Exactly. Leave the decision if we should travel to Myanmar to the people who are living there.
BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195 This is not the forum for your political views – right or wrong. This is rec.travel.asia and the people who visit this NG aren’t interested in a political discussion concerning your solutions for curing the evils of the world. I suggest you visit the groups where your comments may be better appreciated. If other posters/readers in this NG wish to read or enter into a political discussion, they may join you here: soc.rights.human soc.culture.burma misc.activism.progressive soc.culture.asean God save us from the well intentioned…
Your remark would have been more pertinant if you had also told it to the lobotomized fanatic that pollutes this ng with his political rantings and anti-US signatures. Mort _ "God save us from your believers"
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195 This is not the forum for your political views – right or wrong. This is rec.travel.asia and the people who visit this NG aren’t interested in a political discussion concerning your solutions for curing the evils of the world. I suggest you visit the groups where your comments may be better appreciated. If other posters/readers in this NG wish to read or enter into a political discussion, they may join you here: soc.rights.human soc.culture.burma misc.activism.progressive soc.culture.asean God save us from the well intentioned… Your remark would have been more pertinant if you had also told it to the lobotomized fanatic that pollutes this ng with his political rantings and anti-US signatures. Mort _ "God save us from your believers"
Though my comments were directed at a particular post, they would be the same for anyone using this ng for other than the intended purpose. I guess I’m uncertain of the identity of the particular "lobotomized fanatic" you’re referring to. I have a similar lack of patience for anyone who makes an inappropriate post to any ng, or thread for that matter.
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Boy, you are willing to say anything!!! Here you compare the National League for Democracy, a Gandhi-inspired non-violent political party, with the cruel, violent and profoundly undemocratic East German Communist Party! You don’t answer my question: Is the party always right or not?
Um, duh. The "party" in the case of East Germany, was violent and not elected. The "party" in the case of Burma, is non-violent and won the support of an overwhelming majority of Burmese in national elections. Electing a party is the right way to determine the will of the people. Following the dictates of a violent clique, or a pleasure-seeking tourist, is a rather inferior method. You should tell the Burmese people what you say here: Their vote in national elections and their support for the NLD is not valid. You don’t need to repeat that over and over. I never said so and it is just your narrow interpretation of my words.
4-5 years." That sure sounds like you’ve established an expiration date for someone else’s vote… That you are better placed to decide policies for them than are the leaders they elected. Ok once more: Who has a right to decide if we should not travel to Myanmar? Is it the party or is it the people?
"Right?" Those from free countries have the "right" to decide for themselves. Anyone considering travel to Burma (Myanmar) can put aside their desires for pleasure, and do what is right. Perhaps they shouldn’t be so arrogant as to imagine they are able to determine the opinion of "the people" more accurately than national elections themselves. Those who wish to inform themselves prior to deciding, should, at a minimum, consider deeply the position of the elected NLD and its leader Aung San Suu Kyi. Those wishing to encounter the grace and love of the Burmese people might consider visiting and helping the Burmese living in Thai border provinces. Simple questions. I wait for your (hopefully) simple answer.
BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
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Visiting Burma in present circumstances is a political act, whether the visitor likes that fact or not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195 This is not the forum for your political views – right or wrong. This is rec.travel.asia and the people who visit this NG aren’t interested in a political discussion concerning your solutions for curing the evils of the world. I suggest you visit the groups where your comments may be better appreciated. If other posters/readers in this NG wish to read or enter into a political discussion, they may join you here: soc.rights.human soc.culture.burma misc.activism.progressive soc.culture.asean God save us from the well intentioned…
BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
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Funny, you cut out the question, "What is it about representative democracy that you don’t understand?" Anyway, it is clear that you have appointed yourself to determine the will of the Burmese people, and to decide unilaterally that the national elections which the NLD won overwhelmingly are not valid. Perhaps it is better to leave these decisions to the Burmese, who have spoken at the ballot box by the millions, and have chosen the NLD to represent them. How much more simple for the nation: Ignore the electoral process. Leave it to Thomas! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One wonders which "small minority group" you refer to. A small group of people who call for a boycott. This includes you and others who do not live in Myanmar and therefore have not to endure the results of a boycott. Everybody who actually *has* been to Myanmar (this does not include you, for obvious reasons I suppose), knows that the people in Myanmar welcome tourists. In the case of the NLD, they won national elections with 82% of the seats, endorsed by millions of Burmese voters, That was over a decade ago. At the moment there is no legitimate government in Myanmar, neither the military nor the NLD.
BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
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Until the cruel,brutal,oppressive,sadistic, etc.etc.etc.military leadership is removed from Burma NOBODY SHOULD VISIT THAT COUNTRY.
Oh please..give it a rest. Why dont we ever hear your crowd pushing for travel and business boycotts of countries like China and Zimbabwe? Just dont meet you pc criteria eh?
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Until the cruel,brutal,oppressive,sadistic, etc.etc.etc.military leadership is removed from Burma NOBODY SHOULD VISIT THAT COUNTRY. Oh please..give it a rest. Why dont we ever hear your crowd pushing for travel and business boycotts of countries like China and Zimbabwe? Just dont meet you pc criteria eh?
The "crowd" you refer to in the case of Burma are the legitimate, elected winners of national elections, the National League for Democracy. The NLD calls for the boycott. Are you aware of something similar in the countries to which you refer? BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
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The "crowd" you refer to in the case of Burma are the legitimate, elected winners of national elections, the National League for Democracy. The NLD calls for the boycott. How many decades is someone a "legitimate elected winner"? The people of Myanmar do not call for a boycott. That is what counts, not the opinion of a small minority group.
One wonders which "small minority group" you refer to. In the case of the NLD, they won national elections with 82% of the seats, endorsed by millions of Burmese voters, even as party leaders were held under arrest. What is it about representative democracy that you don’t understand? BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
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BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
This is not the forum for your political views – right or wrong. This is rec.travel.asia and the people who visit this NG aren’t interested in a political discussion concerning your solutions for curing the evils of the world. I suggest you visit the groups where your comments may be better appreciated. If other posters/readers in this NG wish to read or enter into a political discussion, they may join you here: soc.rights.human soc.culture.burma misc.activism.progressive soc.culture.asean God save us from the well intentioned…
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An interesting question put out by the military junta. Those who would like to answer the question should visit: http://www.shanland.org/shrf/License_to_Rape/Rape%20Site.jpg This site contains a map of places where they can see their tourism dollars at work. Which is city in Myanmar that you would like visiting most? Find out what others think here on the net at this URL… http://myanmars.net/cgi-bin/destination.pl
BURMA ACTION GROUP SAO Box 119, HUB University of Washington http://students.washington.edu/burma/ Seattle, WA 98195
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Until the cruel,brutal,oppressive,sadistic, etc.etc.etc.military leadership is removed from Burma NOBODY SHOULD VISIT THAT COUNTRY.
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Hi, In article <Pine.A41.4.44.0208150912280.52500- http://www.shanland.org/shrf/License_to_Rape/Rape%20Site.jpg This site contains a map of places where they can see their tourism dollars at work.
Are you really that narrow-minded ?? I have great respect for the opinion of the opposition in Burma but, as Thomas has done, it’s easy to come up with pictures and stories of atrocities in many countries around the globe. Trying to discourage people from going there by using your methods is IMHO not much better than the ridiculous one-liners put up on billboards by the junta. "Now, after years of trying to ignore and belittle Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma’s generals have started secret talks with her on Burma’s political future. It has raised hopes inside and outside the country that this may eventually lead to some form of democracy." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1950505.stm) In my opinion it’s a good thing that there are finally talks going on, but from your point of view surely one should never talk with people as cruel as they are (and I don’t deny the regime is indeed very harsh, mind you !) ? Beware of the Politically Correct ! They’re the least tolerant of us all ! Best regards, Pat. — — — Please visit my travel home page at — –= http://www.travelchat.yucom.be/index.html =–
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Which is city in Myanmar that you would like visiting most? Find out what others think here on the net at this URL… http://myanmars.net/cgi-bin/destination.pl
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Question:
Dear Sir/Madam, Please do not add us for we hate to be crossposted. *calls ot to the rest of the ng* Anyone else agree?
Agreed, although the thought was appreciated. If anyone does have view on such a discussion, I am sure they will visit your NG and post their opinions. ~Gloria AKA Sheena, Queen of the Jungle "Insert funny qoute here" http://bounce.to/myworld.gloria A glimspe into my madness Yahoo! Pager: gloriangel AOL IM(obviously): Alkiperson ICQ: 48259150
– Joey Gambino I am insane and you are my insanity. http://www.alt-teens.org http://www.cybercityusa.com Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/
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Get real! How many of you, as teenagers, wanted to spend time hanging out with your parents? I hope times have radically changed, and teens now want family time, but I doubt it. — SHRED
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries …" (interesting article that shows part of the problem) WASHINGTON, May 2 (AFP) – While US teenagers say they want more time with their parents, most families spend barely over an hour a day together and have significant communication gaps, according to a poll out Tuesday. Many Americans rarely eat dinner together and most parents underestimate the amount of time their kids spend in front of the television, according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House. While 61 percent of the parents surveyed with their 12-15 year-olds said they talk frequently with their teens about sex, drugs, alcohol and violence, only 41 percent of the kids reported such conversations. And while 62 percent of the parents said their children shared their views, only 46 percent of the teens agreed. Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries, according to the telephone survey of 200 teens and 200 parents conducted April 11-20. Most families spend only 80 minutes a day together and parents eat no more than four meals a week with their children, the poll found. Only 12 percent of parents believe their kids spend most of their free time watching television while 20 percent of the teens confessed it was their main pastime. US President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary were hosting a conference on teenagers to discuss the findings and search for ways to keep kids in school and out of trouble. The study and the event were prompted by growing concerns about troubled teens and the wave of school shootings as well as by new research finding that the brain goes through a critical developmental stage just before puberty. — "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
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I am sorry you feel this way.
It’s not a feeling. It’s years of experience watching how pollsters work. While I have not reviewed how they conducted the survey nor any other surveys of this sort it does pass a common sense test and there is not much in it I would question.
Kids will have surveys that serve their own interests, when they write them themselves, act as the pollsters, and then place their own political spin on the answers when writing the press release. My advice to any young person who is asked to fill out a questionaire at school, when they have no knowlege of how the answers will be used, is to simply refuse. I find it quite frankly amazing that young people will still answer questionaires containing extremely personal questions about their sexual, alcohol, drug, violence, and other activities, when they are obviously aware that the answers will simply be twisted and used to lobby for more restrictions on their rights. You would think they would have caught on by now. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
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(interesting article that shows part of the problem) WASHINGTON, May 2 (AFP) – While US teenagers say they want more time with their parents, most families spend barely over an hour a day together and have significant communication gaps, according to a poll out Tuesday. Many Americans rarely eat dinner together and most parents underestimate the amount of time their kids spend in front of the television, according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House. While 61 percent of the parents surveyed with their 12-15 year-olds said they talk frequently with their teens about sex, drugs, alcohol and violence, only 41 percent of the kids reported such conversations.
Talk is relative. Teens tune out lectures. And while 62 percent of the parents said their children shared their views, only 46 percent of the teens agreed.
This shows that parents are not really listening to their kids and that kids aren’t talking to their parents. Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries, according to the telephone survey of 200 teens and 200 parents conducted April 11-20.
Interesting how different the perspectives are. Most families spend only 80 minutes a day together and parents eat no more than four meals a week with their children, the poll found.
The above is certainly believable. But the question is whether more time is needed or whether the time spent needs to have more quality in it even if it isn’t more in quantity. Only 12 percent of parents believe their kids spend most of their free time watching television while 20 percent of the teens confessed it was their main pastime. US President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary were hosting a conference on teenagers to discuss the findings and search for ways to keep kids in school and out of trouble. The study and the event were prompted by growing concerns about troubled teens and the wave of school shootings as well as by new research finding that the brain goes through a critical developmental stage just before puberty.
Dana, why don’t you find the relevant research that this article cites on brain development. That would be an interesting sidebar here. — "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
Dorothy — There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens … source unknown Before you buy.
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"Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries …"
When I was a teen all four of those were not only my parents worries but also the reality. We also had that nasty old fear of Russia and the US blowing the world up which was a good excuse to party. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (interesting article that shows part of the problem) WASHINGTON, May 2 (AFP) – While US teenagers say they want more time with their parents, most families spend barely over an hour a day together and have significant communication gaps, according to a poll out Tuesday. Many Americans rarely eat dinner together and most parents underestimate the amount of time their kids spend in front of the television, according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House. While 61 percent of the parents surveyed with their 12-15 year-olds said they talk frequently with their teens about sex, drugs, alcohol and violence, only 41 percent of the kids reported such conversations. And while 62 percent of the parents said their children shared their views, only 46 percent of the teens agreed. Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries, according to the telephone survey of 200 teens and 200 parents conducted April 11-20. Most families spend only 80 minutes a day together and parents eat no more than four meals a week with their children, the poll found. Only 12 percent of parents believe their kids spend most of their free time watching television while 20 percent of the teens confessed it was their main pastime. US President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary were hosting a conference on teenagers to discuss the findings and search for ways to keep kids in school and out of trouble. The study and the event were prompted by growing concerns about troubled teens and the wave of school shootings as well as by new research finding that the brain goes through a critical developmental stage just before puberty. — "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
– "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
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(interesting article that shows part of the problem) WASHINGTON, May 2 (AFP) – While US teenagers say they want more time with their parents, most families spend barely over an hour a day together and have significant communication gaps, according to a poll out Tuesday. Many Americans rarely eat dinner together and most parents underestimate the amount of time their kids spend in front of the television, according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House. While 61 percent of the parents surveyed with their 12-15 year-olds said they talk frequently with their teens about sex, drugs, alcohol and violence, only 41 percent of the kids reported such conversations. And while 62 percent of the parents said their children shared their views, only 46 percent of the teens agreed. Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries, according to the telephone survey of 200 teens and 200 parents conducted April 11-20. Most families spend only 80 minutes a day together and parents eat no more than four meals a week with their children, the poll found. Only 12 percent of parents believe their kids spend most of their free time watching television while 20 percent of the teens confessed it was their main pastime. US President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary were hosting a conference on teenagers to discuss the findings and search for ways to keep kids in school and out of trouble. The study and the event were prompted by growing concerns about troubled teens and the wave of school shootings as well as by new research finding that the brain goes through a critical developmental stage just before puberty. — "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
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according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House.
Ah, a completely unbiased source with a long record of advocating for the rights of young people. (NOT) — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
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according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House. Ah, a completely unbiased source with a long record of advocating for the rights of young people. (NOT)
Even those who do share your belief sometimes have valid points and reports. It is this extremist view you have that keeps you from being able to use all your resources and thus keeps you alienated and deeply entrenched in these extreme positions you take. I am one of those anti-Bible Thumpers and yet I would never dismiss all that is said simply because it had a religious foundation. To do that is a logical error but it seems you are fond of making those. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
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"Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries …" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (interesting article that shows part of the problem) WASHINGTON, May 2 (AFP) – While US teenagers say they want more time with their parents, most families spend barely over an hour a day together and have significant communication gaps, according to a poll out Tuesday. Many Americans rarely eat dinner together and most parents underestimate the amount of time their kids spend in front of the television, according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House. While 61 percent of the parents surveyed with their 12-15 year-olds said they talk frequently with their teens about sex, drugs, alcohol and violence, only 41 percent of the kids reported such conversations. And while 62 percent of the parents said their children shared their views, only 46 percent of the teens agreed. Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries, according to the telephone survey of 200 teens and 200 parents conducted April 11-20. Most families spend only 80 minutes a day together and parents eat no more than four meals a week with their children, the poll found. Only 12 percent of parents believe their kids spend most of their free time watching television while 20 percent of the teens confessed it was their main pastime. US President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary were hosting a conference on teenagers to discuss the findings and search for ways to keep kids in school and out of trouble. The study and the event were prompted by growing concerns about troubled teens and the wave of school shootings as well as by new research finding that the brain goes through a critical developmental stage just before puberty. — "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
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Dana, I’m adding alt.teens to this because it would seem that they could add there perspective to this. Also corrected the mispelling of apsolutions.
Thanks. You may have more of those corrections to make as when I posted this one I think I was only hitting on 5 of 8 cylinders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For any teens who would like to contribute to discussions about adult/child relationships, school violence or other topics of interest in general, I invite you to participate and xpost or to visit alt.activism.children to add your voice to discussions here. alt.school.violence is a new newsgroup that some of you might also want to participate in and if you do not currently receive it on your server, it might help if you requested the ISP to add it to their list. (interesting article that shows part of the problem) WASHINGTON, May 2 (AFP) – While US teenagers say they want more time with their parents, most families spend barely over an hour a day together and have significant communication gaps, according to a poll out Tuesday. Many Americans rarely eat dinner together and most parents underestimate the amount of time their kids spend in front of the television, according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey sponsored by the White House. While 61 percent of the parents surveyed with their 12-15 year-olds said they talk frequently with their teens about sex, drugs, alcohol and violence, only 41 percent of the kids reported such conversations. And while 62 percent of the parents said their children shared their views, only 46 percent of the teens agreed. Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their biggest worries, according to the telephone survey of 200 teens and 200 parents conducted April 11-20. Most families spend only 80 minutes a day together and parents eat no more than four meals a week with their children, the poll found. Only 12 percent of parents believe their kids spend most of their free time watching television while 20 percent of the teens confessed it was their main pastime. US President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary were hosting a conference on teenagers to discuss the findings and search for ways to keep kids in school and out of trouble. The study and the event were prompted by growing concerns about troubled teens and the wave of school shootings as well as by new research finding that the brain goes through a critical developmental stage just before puberty. Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown
– "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
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I am sorry you feel this way. While I have not reviewed how they conducted the survey nor any other surveys of this sort it does pass a common sense test and there is not much in it I would question. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, a completely unbiased source with a long record of advocating for the rights of young people. (NOT) Even those who do share your belief sometimes have valid points and reports. It is this extremist view you have that keeps you from being able to use all your resources and thus keeps you alienated and deeply entrenched in these extreme positions you take. I am one of those anti-Bible Thumpers and yet I would never dismiss all that is said simply because it had a religious foundation. To do that is a logical error but it seems you are fond of making those. There is far too much stuff purporting to know what kids "want" and "need" put out by law enforcement, religious factions, and vested political interests. Any survey where the language used to report the results is not the same language used to ask the questions is simply a propaganda attempt. My favorite such effort was a survey given to middle school students which asked whether after going out on a date with a girl, and taking her to a movie, and buying her dinner, it was ok to try to encourage her to have sex with you afterwards. The answers to this question hit the headlines shortly thereafter with a tone of "X percent of middle school students think it’s ok to rape a girl if you buy her a hot dog." Most surveys by so-called child avocacy groups, which are in reality groups advocating for the rights of adults over children, are designed to rubber-stamp an agenda, not for purposes of legitimate scientific inquiry. If you want to find out whether teens want to spend more time with their parents, you ask. A. I would like to spend [ ] More time [ ] The same amount of time I spend now [ ] Less time with my loving parental carbon units. Inferring such a result from the enormous compendium of crap that was asked is an exercise in lying with statistics. Another trick survey makers do is to give multiple choice tests to large groups of people, with lots of deliberately planted absurd answers written by the test designers. Since given a large enough group, every answer will be chosen once, if only by accident, they can then release their own words as something "some students said." "Children’s Shocking Answers to History Questions – Some students thought George Washington was the President of France, and one child thought the Civil War was fought over Japanese Car Excise Taxes – Film at 11." Well, you get the idea. Why on earth would the White House be giving publicity to anything that doesn’t advance Hillary’s big brother-esque child-rearing strategy anyway? — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."
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Ah, a completely unbiased source with a long record of advocating for the rights of young people. (NOT) Even those who do share your belief sometimes have valid points and reports. It is this extremist view you have that keeps you from being able to use all your resources and thus keeps you alienated and deeply entrenched in these extreme positions you take. I am one of those anti-Bible Thumpers and yet I would never dismiss all that is said simply because it had a religious foundation. To do that is a logical error but it seems you are fond of making those.
There is far too much stuff purporting to know what kids "want" and "need" put out by law enforcement, religious factions, and vested political interests. Any survey where the language used to report the results is not the same language used to ask the questions is simply a propaganda attempt. My favorite such effort was a survey given to middle school students which asked whether after going out on a date with a girl, and taking her to a movie, and buying her dinner, it was ok to try to encourage her to have sex with you afterwards. The answers to this question hit the headlines shortly thereafter with a tone of "X percent of middle school students think it’s ok to rape a girl if you buy her a hot dog." Most surveys by so-called child avocacy groups, which are in reality groups advocating for the rights of adults over children, are designed to rubber-stamp an agenda, not for purposes of legitimate scientific inquiry. If you want to find out whether teens want to spend more time with their parents, you ask. A. I would like to spend [ ] More time [ ] The same amount of time I spend now [ ] Less time with my loving parental carbon units. Inferring such a result from the enormous compendium of crap that was asked is an exercise in lying with statistics. Another trick survey makers do is to give multiple choice tests to large groups of people, with lots of deliberately planted absurd answers written by the test designers. Since given a large enough group, every answer will be chosen once, if only by accident, they can then release their own words as something "some students said." "Children’s Shocking Answers to History Questions – Some students thought George Washington was the President of France, and one child thought the Civil War was fought over Japanese Car Excise Taxes – Film at 11." Well, you get the idea. Why on earth would the White House be giving publicity to anything that doesn’t advance Hillary’s big brother-esque child-rearing strategy anyway? — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
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Being 21 is so amazing! Rebirth–as what you think is an adult (you actually don’t get there for a few more years) But the feeling is tremendous. You got it Megan! there is (and has for many many years) been a direct connection between rock n roll music and activism. That’s the link that drew me to U2 in the early 80’s– (when I was your age we had Phil Ochs.) thanks for your reflections–I hope lots of other young people feel the same as you! mars — The largest collection of original electronic artwork inspired by the music of U2 (and completely ignored by them) on the face of the planet! Now at two locations. U
Question:
I think your feeling is correct, the legislation is appalling. Has anyone asked the women that put their babies in baggies in dumpsters if they would have taken the time to investigate and utilize this option? I doubt they would as previous interviews do not indicate that this is their rationale of thinking. The problem with this legislation, in my opinion, is that it "sounds good" and is a mask that incorrectly leads society and lawmakers to think they are actually doing something about the problem. I would rather see the funds going to educate and perhaps provide a 24 hour counseling center as opposed to a baby dump. Kathy J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what’s so terrible about this legislation?… while I feel it’s appalling, personally. it’s designed so that women will stop putting their babies in baggies and shoving them in a dumpster. i think it’s a start… Bernadette
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Have you actually read the bill? I hardly agree that attempting to stop legislation that clearly will have more negative than positive ramifications can be labelled "special interest"! Angela – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MINNESOTA ACTION ALERT Updated: April 12, 2000 We need your help urgently to stop Baby Dump legislation in Minnesota! Call, write and fax Minnesota Governor Ventura today! Senate bill SF 2615 passed the Senate yesterday 60-4, and passed the House today, 133-0. Next stop is Governor Ventura’s desk. This bill allows and even encourages anonymous abandonment– by *anyone*, not just the mother, while prohibiting inquiries to determine who the mother is. Call, write, fax Governor Ventura at Oh, c’mon…you guys are going to lose on this. Gov. Ventura is a sensible guy that knows a practical solution when he sees one. There’s little chance he will kowtow to your special interest. – Don
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I completeley agree with you… In this case… it isn’t the thought that counts Bernadette —– I don’t care if I AM a lemming, I’m still not going. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think your feeling is correct, the legislation is appalling. Has anyone asked the women that put their babies in baggies in dumpsters if they would have taken the time to investigate and utilize this option? I doubt they would as previous interviews do not indicate that this is their rationale of thinking. The problem with this legislation, in my opinion, is that it "sounds good" and is a mask that incorrectly leads society and lawmakers to think they are actually doing something about the problem. I would rather see the funds going to educate and perhaps provide a 24 hour counseling center as opposed to a baby dump. Kathy J what’s so terrible about this legislation?… while I feel it’s appalling, personally. it’s designed so that women will stop putting their babies in baggies and shoving them in a dumpster. i think it’s a start… Bernadette
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MINNESOTA ACTION ALERT Updated: April 12, 2000 We need your help urgently to stop Baby Dump legislation in Minnesota! Call, write and fax Minnesota Governor Ventura today! Senate bill SF 2615 passed the Senate yesterday 60-4, and passed the House today, 133-0. Next stop is Governor Ventura’s desk. This bill allows and even encourages anonymous abandonment– by *anyone*, not just the mother, while prohibiting inquiries to determine who the mother is. Call, write, fax Governor Ventura at Office of Governor Jesse Ventura 130 State Capitol 75 Constitution Avenue Saint Paul, MN 55155 Voice (651)296-3391 or (800)657-3717 Fax: (651)296-2089 TDD: (651)296-0075 or (800)657-3598 Web e-mail form: http://www.mainserver.state.mn.us/governor/email_form.html SF 2615 allows for a licensed hosptial to receive a baby 72 hours old or less, and prohibits the hospital from asking for the name of the parent. Amazingly, subsection (3) of section (2) provides that a person who is not the mother of the child can drop off the baby, provided they have "the mother’s approval to do so". We have to wonder how the hospital going to determine if permission has been given if they are prohibited by law from inquiring as to the identity of the mother? In addition, it removes any medical worker who accepts a baby from civil and criminal liability, and the waives the requirement that a child-placing agency search for any biological family. Baby Dump laws are unproven quick fix solutions to the tragedies of infant abandonment and infanticide. Help us protect the rights of the abandoned and put a stop to laws which fail to protect victims of infanticide. Please take a few moments to read these facts about legalized abandonment and write a short letter to legislators expressing concern about such misguided legislation. There’s no evidence these laws work to save any lives. In addition, they * Obliterate the identity rights of the abandoned child. * Ignore the causes of infant abandonment and the urgent needs of mothers in crisis; no counseling or social services are accessible either pre- or post-abandonment for abandoning mothers. * Reverse a century long trend in child welfare policy discouraging abandonment. * Directly conflict with existing state and federal legislation and U.S. Supreme Court decisions, such as birthmother revocation periods, birthfather notification, and the Indian Child Welfare Act. * Discourage the collection of medical and other background information. * Prevent anyone from being able to verify that the person leaving the baby is in fact the parent. * Open the door to potential fraud and abuse. Georgia Tann, convicted Tennessee adoption black marketeer of the 1940’s, would benefit from these bills. Governor Ventura needs to know that Baby Dump laws DON’T WORK! Despite a similar law passed in Texas last year, Texas mothers continue to abandon babies outside of their Baby Dump system. See our position paper on legalized abandonment at http://www.bastards.org/activism/legalized-abandonment.html Thank you. Together we can make a difference. Legislative Committee Bastard Nation http://www.bastards.org/
Response:
what’s so terrible about this legislation?… while I feel it’s appalling, personally. it’s designed so that women will stop putting their babies in baggies and shoving them in a dumpster. i think it’s a start… Bernadette — I don’t care if I AM a lemming, I’m still not going.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MINNESOTA ACTION ALERT Updated: April 12, 2000 We need your help urgently to stop Baby Dump legislation in Minnesota! Call, write and fax Minnesota Governor Ventura today! Senate bill SF 2615 passed the Senate yesterday 60-4, and passed the House today, 133-0. Next stop is Governor Ventura’s desk. This bill allows and even encourages anonymous abandonment– by *anyone*, not just the mother, while prohibiting inquiries to determine who the mother is. Call, write, fax Governor Ventura at Office of Governor Jesse Ventura 130 State Capitol 75 Constitution Avenue Saint Paul, MN 55155 Voice (651)296-3391 or (800)657-3717 Fax: (651)296-2089 TDD: (651)296-0075 or (800)657-3598 Web e-mail form:
http://www.mainserver.state.mn.us/governor/email_form.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SF 2615 allows for a licensed hosptial to receive a baby 72 hours old or less, and prohibits the hospital from asking for the name of the parent. Amazingly, subsection (3) of section (2) provides that a person who is not the mother of the child can drop off the baby, provided they have "the mother’s approval to do so". We have to wonder how the hospital going to determine if permission has been given if they are prohibited by law from inquiring as to the identity of the mother? In addition, it removes any medical worker who accepts a baby from civil and criminal liability, and the waives the requirement that a child-placing agency search for any biological family. Baby Dump laws are unproven quick fix solutions to the tragedies of infant abandonment and infanticide. Help us protect the rights of the abandoned and put a stop to laws which fail to protect victims of infanticide. Please take a few moments to read these facts about legalized abandonment and write a short letter to legislators expressing concern about such misguided legislation. There’s no evidence these laws work to save any lives. In addition, they * Obliterate the identity rights of the abandoned child. * Ignore the causes of infant abandonment and the urgent needs of mothers in crisis; no counseling or social services are accessible either pre- or post-abandonment for abandoning mothers. * Reverse a century long trend in child welfare policy discouraging abandonment. * Directly conflict with existing state and federal legislation and U.S. Supreme Court decisions, such as birthmother revocation periods, birthfather notification, and the Indian Child Welfare Act. * Discourage the collection of medical and other background information. * Prevent anyone from being able to verify that the person leaving the baby is in fact the parent. * Open the door to potential fraud and abuse. Georgia Tann, convicted Tennessee adoption black marketeer of the 1940’s, would benefit from these bills. Governor Ventura needs to know that Baby Dump laws DON’T WORK! Despite a similar law passed in Texas last year, Texas mothers continue to abandon babies outside of their Baby Dump system. See our position paper on legalized abandonment at http://www.bastards.org/activism/legalized-abandonment.html Thank you. Together we can make a difference. Legislative Committee Bastard Nation http://www.bastards.org/
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