Military Man of honor AND one who speaks the truth!

Question:

Probably not libel at all. However, he is in the military and knows better. It is a violation of the UCMJ. They don’t operate under the same rules as the rest of us. For civilians, you say "take this job and shove it" and you get fired. Under the UCMJ you get an Article 15 or a court martial.

Exactly, he knew the rules going in and he agreed to live by them. Plenty of other people are in the same boat — judges for example — they know they cannot participate in certain public debates due to their profession, and if they choose to ignore the rules they pay the price. Whether or not everything this guy says is true or a loony-tunes fantasy is irrelevant, he signed on the dotted line and swore an oath to abide by the rules of the organization he was joining. P.S. Looney-tunes fantasy is the correct answer, anyone who seriously believes the fedgov knew about 9-11 in advance and allowed it to happen needs to change the aluminum foil in their hardhat, the mind-control rays from those CIA satellites are getting through again.

Response:

x-no-archive: yes I thought people understood the Constitution doesn’t apply to servicemen. Still, it’s a shame if it’s true. Doesn’t apply? Sure as hell does..

No, it doesn’t. The Constitution is null and void the moment you’re sworn in. The only "protections" you have after that are the ones listed in the Uniform Code of Military "Justice". Charlie S. RM2, USN(Ret.)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Probably not libel at all. However, he is in the military and knows better. It is a violation of the UCMJ. They don’t operate under the same rules as the rest of us. For civilians, you say "take this job and shove it" and you get fired. Under the UCMJ you get an Article 15 or a court martial. Exactly, he knew the rules going in and he agreed to live by them. Plenty of other people are in the same boat — judges for example — they know they cannot participate in certain public debates due to their profession, and if they choose to ignore the rules they pay the price. Whether or not everything this guy says is true or a loony-tunes fantasy is irrelevant, he signed on the dotted line and swore an oath to abide by the rules of the organization he was joining. P.S. Looney-tunes fantasy is the correct answer, anyone who seriously believes the fedgov knew about 9-11 in advance and allowed it to happen needs to change the aluminum foil in their hardhat, the mind-control rays from those CIA satellites are getting through again.

Well, it really wound’t surprise me if they did know. After all, the attack on Pearl Harbor wasn’t exactly a surprise either, was it? Charlie S.

Response:

Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this?

Not much. An Air Force officer who accused President Bush of having prior knowledge about Sept. 11 and using the attacks for political gain has been suspended from the Monterey Defense Language Institute and could face court-martial.

It’s called "insubordination" and the military frown on it…. Even though he’s probably right.

Response:

x-no-archive: yes I thought people understood the Constitution doesn’t apply to servicemen. Still, it’s a shame if it’s true.

Doesn’t apply? Sure as hell does.. — "My Heroes Have Always Been Highways" – Tom T. Hall http://www.frontiernet.net/~pj2/index.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/314/paul_booth_johnson.html —

Response:

Exactly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – B) If Mr. Kim’s article is accurate, then the Lt Col stands accused. We still have a trial to proceed with, which when over will determine guilt. Let’s get that part over and decided before discussing punishments. It wouldn’t take a lot of effort for a disgruntled individual to send a letter to a newspaper, and sign somebody else’s name. I would choose to wait until all facts have been presented. C) If in fact the Lt Col performed the accused acts, then his actions were dishonorable. I have known other fine military members who felt they could not faithfully serve the elected Commander in Chief. In one such case I knew a 26 year veteran, who upon the election of President Clinton, opted to get out of the military prior to the inaguration. This was the right thing to do and served as a terrific example to all who knew of his reasonings. He did not make speaches about his decision, he simply made a much larger statement with his feet. If the Lt Col did write these things, then he should have resigned his commission and returned to civilian life first, where he would have been at greater liberty to speak his mind. Protection of the US and it’s citizens is a much bigger issue than any one person’s ambitions. That goes for the President, and those of each and every military member. Again, as a trial has not taken place, and knowing that option is available to commissioned officers, for the time being I choose to believe in the Lt Col’s innocence. Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? This guy is going to get screwed big time for telling the truth and speaking his mind (Anybody who’s ever had anything to do with those facists in Monterey knows this!). But no such thing will happen to us here — if we — SOUND OFF! Wednesday, June 5, 2002 (SF Chronicle) Bush critic suspended by military/Officer’s letter printed Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer An Air Force officer who accused President Bush of having prior knowledge about Sept. 11 and using the attacks for political gain has been suspended from the Monterey Defense Language Institute and could face court-martial. Lt. Col. Steve Butler, vice chancellor for student affairs at the institute, was suspended on May 29 pending an investigation into a letter he wrote that was published in the Monterey County Herald on May 26, military sources said. In the letter, Butler called Bush a "joke" and said the president is using the war on terrorism to muster political support. "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America," Butler wrote. "He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. . . . His presidency was going nowhere." ". . . What is sleazy and contemptible is the president of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain," Butler wrote. Citing military regulations prohibiting officials from commenting on ongoing investigations, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Art Haubold would not tie Butler’s letter to his suspension. "Butler has been administratively suspended from his position because of an ongoing investigation," said Haubold. But other military sources said Butler was suspended for his remarks. Butler remains stationed at the institute on paid leave, said Haubold. Haubold said the investigation will be conducted by local commanders at the language institute. Butler, a 24-year veteran of the armed forces, served as a bomber navigator in Desert Storm. He declined to comment Tuesday. "My lawyer has advised me to not make any comments," he said. Military sources said Butler was suspended under Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which prohibits any commissioned officer from using contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, other prominent government officials or Congress. The maximum punishment under Article 88 is dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and confinement for one year. The only known court-martial under Article 88 occurred in 1965, when 2nd Lt. Henry Howe was convicted of contemptuous words against President Lyndon Johnson. He had participated in an off-base anti-war protest in El Paso, Texas, where he carried signs characterizing President Johnson as "petty," "ignorant" and "fascist." Copyright 2002 SF Chronicle

– "My Heroes Have Always Been Highways" – Tom T. Hall http://www.frontiernet.net/~pj2/index.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/314/paul_booth_johnson.html —

Response:

oooh-rah!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a retired Sailor who served 24 years on active duty, I will second this. The president is also the Commander and Chief of all armed forces. In the military slander of a person even one pay grade higher deep Kim Chee, let alone publicly bashing the president about a policy he probably knew nothing or very little about. I hope they make an example of him. I am in the military and find what he said disgraceful. Nobody in their right mind Republican, Democrat, whatever would let this happened if they truly knew. And certainly did "need" the number casualties to justify their presidency. I am in the Infantry, the one actually on the ground fighting. I don’t have a problem going after whoever. Perhaps this officer thought he joined the salvation army instead of the military, or has spent way to much time behind a desk. Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? I think he shoulda done what I did — ETS and become a civilian and then bitch to your heart’s content about the civilian leadership of the country. Civilian control of the military is a cornerstone of our system. There ain’t no First Amendment once you raise your hand — but there sure as hell is an Article 88 UCMJ. Maybe after he gets out of Leavenworth he’ll write some protest songs to play on his gee-tar, huh?

Response:

Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!!

You know this is exactly what they said about Clinton and the Oklahoma boming. A writer claims he had proof and cited an informant who worked for the intelligence community. And of course Oklahoma conveniently turned the US against the Far Right. But – of course that cant be true can it? Some other "truths" about Sept 11 – Muslims thing the whole thing was setup and done by the Mossad. Others say its a continuation of American capitalists who used Clinton to bring peace to the Balkans and Sept 11 to invade Afganisthan to lay an oil pipe in the region. With so many "truths" out there is so hard to choose.

Response:

He’s going to get what he deserves. He knows the rules, now he pays the price. Mustard USAF ‘72-’75 ROV ‘72-73 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? This guy is going to get screwed big time for telling the truth and speaking his mind (Anybody who’s ever had anything to do with those facists in Monterey knows this!). But no such thing will happen to us here — if we — SOUND OFF! Wednesday, June 5, 2002 (SF Chronicle) Bush critic suspended by military/Officer’s letter printed Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer An Air Force officer who accused President Bush of having prior knowledge about Sept. 11 and using the attacks for political gain has been suspended from the Monterey Defense Language Institute and could face court-martial.

<snip

Response:

A couple of quick points from someone who’s spent as much time in the Military as the accused. A) The Constitution does apply to the Military. We simply curtail a couple points as needed to maintain a ready force. Those limitations are clearly spelled out to each and every service member as part of thier training. A 24-year veteran would certainly know where the lines are drawn. B) If Mr. Kim’s article is accurate, then the Lt Col stands accused. We still have a trial to proceed with, which when over will determine guilt. Let’s get that part over and decided before discussing punishments. It wouldn’t take a lot of effort for a disgruntled individual to send a letter to a newspaper, and sign somebody else’s name. I would choose to wait until all facts have been presented. C) If in fact the Lt Col performed the accused acts, then his actions were dishonorable. I have known other fine military members who felt they could not faithfully serve the elected Commander in Chief. In one such case I knew a 26 year veteran, who upon the election of President Clinton, opted to get out of the military prior to the inaguration. This was the right thing to do and served as a terrific example to all who knew of his reasonings. He did not make speaches about his decision, he simply made a much larger statement with his feet. If the Lt Col did write these things, then he should have resigned his commission and returned to civilian life first, where he would have been at greater liberty to speak his mind. Protection of the US and it’s citizens is a much bigger issue than any one person’s ambitions. That goes for the President, and those of each and every military member. Again, as a trial has not taken place, and knowing that option is available to commissioned officers, for the time being I choose to believe in the Lt Col’s innocence.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? This guy is going to get screwed big time for telling the truth and speaking his mind (Anybody who’s ever had anything to do with those facists in Monterey knows this!). But no such thing will happen to us here — if we — SOUND OFF! Wednesday, June 5, 2002 (SF Chronicle) Bush critic suspended by military/Officer’s letter printed Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer An Air Force officer who accused President Bush of having prior knowledge about Sept. 11 and using the attacks for political gain has been suspended from the Monterey Defense Language Institute and could face court-martial. Lt. Col. Steve Butler, vice chancellor for student affairs at the institute, was suspended on May 29 pending an investigation into a letter he wrote that was published in the Monterey County Herald on May 26, military sources said. In the letter, Butler called Bush a "joke" and said the president is using the war on terrorism to muster political support. "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America," Butler wrote. "He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. . . . His presidency was going nowhere." ". . . What is sleazy and contemptible is the president of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain," Butler wrote. Citing military regulations prohibiting officials from commenting on ongoing investigations, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Art Haubold would not tie Butler’s letter to his suspension. "Butler has been administratively suspended from his position because of an ongoing investigation," said Haubold. But other military sources said Butler was suspended for his remarks. Butler remains stationed at the institute on paid leave, said Haubold. Haubold said the investigation will be conducted by local commanders at the language institute. Butler, a 24-year veteran of the armed forces, served as a bomber navigator in Desert Storm. He declined to comment Tuesday. "My lawyer has advised me to not make any comments," he said. Military sources said Butler was suspended under Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which prohibits any commissioned officer from using contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, other prominent government officials or Congress. The maximum punishment under Article 88 is dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and confinement for one year. The only known court-martial under Article 88 occurred in 1965, when 2nd Lt. Henry Howe was convicted of contemptuous words against President Lyndon Johnson. He had participated in an off-base anti-war protest in El Paso, Texas, where he carried signs characterizing President Johnson as "petty," "ignorant" and "fascist." Copyright 2002 SF Chronicle

Response:

so far, so good. and said the president is using the war on terrorism to muster political support.

of course. "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America,"

in a way, that’s true. Butler wrote. "He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. . . . His presidency was going nowhere."

I don’t have any doubt about the need for power among some of those who attain it. ". . . What is sleazy and contemptible is the president of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain,"

but, it happens often. Butler wrote. Citing military regulations prohibiting officials from commenting on ongoing investigations, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Art Haubold would not tie Butler’s letter to his suspension. "Butler has been administratively suspended from his position because of an ongoing investigation," said Haubold. But other military sources said Butler was suspended for his remarks.

yeah. they love free speech. right up until they crush it via some military nonsense. Butler remains stationed at the institute on paid leave, said Haubold. Haubold said the investigation will be conducted by local commanders at the language institute. Butler, a 24-year veteran of the armed forces, served as a bomber navigator in Desert Storm. He declined to comment Tuesday. "My lawyer has advised me to not make any comments," he said. Military sources said Butler was suspended under Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which prohibits any commissioned officer from using contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, other prominent government officials or Congress.

which is a stupid rule. The maximum punishment under Article 88 is dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and confinement for one year.

which is a horrendous punishment. But hey. we’re known for that. The only known court-martial under Article 88 occurred in 1965, when 2nd Lt. Henry Howe was convicted of contemptuous words against President Lyndon Johnson. He had participated in an off-base anti-war protest in El Paso, Texas, where he carried signs characterizing President Johnson as "petty," "ignorant" and "fascist."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s called Libel, and he broke military regulations. Not to mention having no proof of those accusations what-so-ever Wes - PS, the coffee was fine this morning. Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? This guy is going to get screwed big time for telling the truth and speaking his mind (Anybody who’s ever had anything to do with those facists in Monterey knows this!). But no such thing will happen to us here — if we — SOUND OFF! Wednesday, June 5, 2002 (SF Chronicle) Bush critic suspended by military/Officer’s letter printed Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer An Air Force officer who accused President Bush of having prior knowledge about Sept. 11 and using the attacks for political gain has been suspended from the Monterey Defense Language Institute and could face court-martial. Lt. Col. Steve Butler, vice chancellor for student affairs at the institute, was suspended on May 29 pending an investigation into a letter he wrote that was published in the Monterey County Herald on May 26, military sources said. In the letter, Butler called Bush a "joke" and said the president is using the war on terrorism to muster political support. "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America," Butler wrote. "He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. . . . His presidency was going nowhere." ". . . What is sleazy and contemptible is the president of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain," Butler wrote. Citing military regulations prohibiting officials from commenting on ongoing investigations, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Art Haubold would not tie Butler’s letter to his suspension. "Butler has been administratively suspended from his position because of an ongoing investigation," said Haubold. But other military sources said Butler was suspended for his remarks. Butler remains stationed at the institute on paid leave, said Haubold. Haubold said the investigation will be conducted by local commanders at the language institute. Butler, a 24-year veteran of the armed forces, served as a bomber navigator in Desert Storm. He declined to comment Tuesday. "My lawyer has advised me to not make any comments," he said. Military sources said Butler was suspended under Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which prohibits any commissioned officer from using contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, other prominent government officials or Congress. The maximum punishment under Article 88 is dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and confinement for one year. The only known court-martial under Article 88 occurred in 1965, when 2nd Lt. Henry Howe was convicted of contemptuous words against President Lyndon Johnson. He had participated in an off-base anti-war protest in El Paso, Texas, where he carried signs characterizing President Johnson as "petty," "ignorant" and "fascist." Copyright 2002 SF Chronicle

Response:

As a retired Sailor who served 24 years on active duty, I will second this. The president is also the Commander and Chief of all armed forces. In the military slander of a person even one pay grade higher deep Kim Chee, let alone publicly bashing the president about a policy he probably knew nothing or very little about. I hope they make an example of him. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the military and find what he said disgraceful. Nobody in their right mind Republican, Democrat, whatever would let this happened if they truly knew. And certainly did "need" the number casualties to justify their presidency. I am in the Infantry, the one actually on the ground fighting. I don’t have a problem going after whoever. Perhaps this officer thought he joined the salvation army instead of the military, or has spent way to much time behind a desk. Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? I think he shoulda done what I did — ETS and become a civilian and then bitch to your heart’s content about the civilian leadership of the country. Civilian control of the military is a cornerstone of our system. There ain’t no First Amendment once you raise your hand — but there sure as hell is an Article 88 UCMJ. Maybe after he gets out of Leavenworth he’ll write some protest songs to play on his gee-tar, huh?

Response:

I am in the military and find what he said disgraceful. Nobody in their right mind Republican, Democrat, whatever would let this happened if they truly knew. And certainly did "need" the number casualties to justify their presidency. I am in the Infantry, the one actually on the ground fighting. I don’t have a problem going after whoever. Perhaps this officer thought he joined the salvation army instead of the military, or has spent way to much time behind a desk.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? I think he shoulda done what I did — ETS and become a civilian and then bitch to your heart’s content about the civilian leadership of the country. Civilian control of the military is a cornerstone of our system. There ain’t no First Amendment once you raise your hand — but there sure as hell is an Article 88 UCMJ. Maybe after he gets out of Leavenworth he’ll write some protest songs to play on his gee-tar, huh?

Response:

Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this?

I think he shoulda done what I did — ETS and become a civilian and then bitch to your heart’s content about the civilian leadership of the country. Civilian control of the military is a cornerstone of our system. There ain’t no First Amendment once you raise your hand — but there sure as hell is an Article 88 UCMJ. Maybe after he gets out of Leavenworth he’ll write some protest songs to play on his gee-tar, huh?

Response:

It’s called Libel, and he broke military regulations. Not to mention having no proof of those accusations what-so-ever Wes - PS, the coffee was fine this morning. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? This guy is going to get screwed big time for telling the truth and speaking his mind (Anybody who’s ever had anything to do with those facists in Monterey knows this!). But no such thing will happen to us here — if we — SOUND OFF! Wednesday, June 5, 2002 (SF Chronicle) Bush critic suspended by military/Officer’s letter printed Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer An Air Force officer who accused President Bush of having prior knowledge about Sept. 11 and using the attacks for political gain has been suspended from the Monterey Defense Language Institute and could face court-martial. Lt. Col. Steve Butler, vice chancellor for student affairs at the institute, was suspended on May 29 pending an investigation into a letter he wrote that was published in the Monterey County Herald on May 26, military sources said. In the letter, Butler called Bush a "joke" and said the president is using the war on terrorism to muster political support. "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America," Butler wrote. "He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. . . . His presidency was going nowhere." ". . . What is sleazy and contemptible is the president of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain," Butler wrote. Citing military regulations prohibiting officials from commenting on ongoing investigations, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Art Haubold would not tie Butler’s letter to his suspension. "Butler has been administratively suspended from his position because of an ongoing investigation," said Haubold. But other military sources said Butler was suspended for his remarks. Butler remains stationed at the institute on paid leave, said Haubold. Haubold said the investigation will be conducted by local commanders at the language institute. Butler, a 24-year veteran of the armed forces, served as a bomber navigator in Desert Storm. He declined to comment Tuesday. "My lawyer has advised me to not make any comments," he said. Military sources said Butler was suspended under Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which prohibits any commissioned officer from using contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, other prominent government officials or Congress. The maximum punishment under Article 88 is dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and confinement for one year. The only known court-martial under Article 88 occurred in 1965, when 2nd Lt. Henry Howe was convicted of contemptuous words against President Lyndon Johnson. He had participated in an off-base anti-war protest in El Paso, Texas, where he carried signs characterizing President Johnson as "petty," "ignorant" and "fascist." Copyright 2002 SF Chronicle

Response:

Wake up and smell the coffee — guys!! It’s all right there in front of you!! Guitar folks front and center! What do we think about this? This guy is going to get screwed big time for telling the truth and speaking his mind (Anybody who’s ever had anything to do with those facists in Monterey knows this!). But no such thing will happen to us here — if we — SOUND OFF! Wednesday, June 5, 2002 (SF Chronicle) Bush critic suspended by military/Officer’s letter printed Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer An Air Force officer who accused President Bush of having prior knowledge about Sept. 11 and using the attacks for political gain has been suspended from the Monterey Defense Language Institute and could face court-martial. Lt. Col. Steve Butler, vice chancellor for student affairs at the institute, was suspended on May 29 pending an investigation into a letter he wrote that was published in the Monterey County Herald on May 26, military sources said. In the letter, Butler called Bush a "joke" and said the president is using the war on terrorism to muster political support. "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America," Butler wrote. "He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. . . . His presidency was going nowhere." ". . . What is sleazy and contemptible is the president of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain," Butler wrote. Citing military regulations prohibiting officials from commenting on ongoing investigations, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Art Haubold would not tie Butler’s letter to his suspension. "Butler has been administratively suspended from his position because of an ongoing investigation," said Haubold. But other military sources said Butler was suspended for his remarks. Butler remains stationed at the institute on paid leave, said Haubold. Haubold said the investigation will be conducted by local commanders at the language institute. Butler, a 24-year veteran of the armed forces, served as a bomber navigator in Desert Storm. He declined to comment Tuesday. "My lawyer has advised me to not make any comments," he said. Military sources said Butler was suspended under Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which prohibits any commissioned officer from using contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, other prominent government officials or Congress. The maximum punishment under Article 88 is dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and confinement for one year. The only known court-martial under Article 88 occurred in 1965, when 2nd Lt. Henry Howe was convicted of contemptuous words against President Lyndon Johnson. He had participated in an off-base anti-war protest in El Paso, Texas, where he carried signs characterizing President Johnson as "petty," "ignorant" and "fascist." Copyright 2002 SF Chronicle

Response:

Filed under: Protest songs

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