Activism Change

OT: Spying On Americans???

Question:

Have you heard about recent attempts to pass legislation that would allow what some might call "spying" on Americans, by the CIA and military? The changes were first introduced last year, but were removed after details were reported in Newsweek.  Now, with no public debate, the measure has been reintroduced. On the surface, this looks harmless enough.  Hey, it’s all about fighting terrorism.  These rule changes would remove many of the restrictions on various agencies, so that they could covertly observe suspected terrorists. What’s so bad about that? However, we need to make certain that there are some restrictions that remain, so that the rights and privacy of Americans are not lost or abused. As the suggested changes are now, this would not be the case.  In theory, a government with a secret agenda would be able to spy on you, and even pay your neighbor to inform on you–legally. That fact alone, should send up yellow caution flags!! But, when you consider the record of disregard and abuse of laws and regulations, repeatedly demonstrated by the current administration, this proposed legislation should change the yellow flags to RED. How about this scenario: One of the "liberal losers" on this group finally gets his fill of LV and reports him, claiming something totally outrageous…he’s building timers for terrorists, for example. Next thing you know, anyone from the CIA, NSA or even the Army, may be spying on him, tapping his phones, paying his neighbors for information that might incriminate him, etc., etc. Think that would never happen?  Are you sure about that? Now, what if our government ever really took on an evil agenda, including using propaganda to lead us to war, using propaganda to keep us in a state of fear, overstating the level of threat in our homeland to ensure total control over the population, etc.?  Just imagine what they could do? We already have an example in recent history.  That paragraph above describes Nazi Germany perfectly, as they were led to war by a government rich with power and control. (Remember…German people have always been very well educated and are a proud people–just like Americans.  They were not fooled into following the nazis for lack of intelligence.  Not at all.  The Nazis achieved their power slowly, little by little, using deception and propaganda…and not all at once.  Many Germans never realized exactly what had happened, until it was too late.) But then, that paragraph above also describes the current administration perfectly.  And, the comparisons have been made before, by many others.  Why do we continue to see even more similarities emerge??? The proposed legislation could be a useful tool for law enforcement, if used properly.  I’m not so sure that allowing the military and our nation’s "spy" agencies the same liberties, is appropriate, as they are a direct arm of the President, if you will. Just imagine what GWB could do with such power. Gee…he could "eliminate" the liberals who oppose him. I’m not suggesting concentration camps.  There are other ways to destroy a person.  And gee whiz, his buddies have already demonstrated an uncanny ability to do just that, already.  (a modern/kinder/gentler version of….??) Who’s next?  Me?  You? All I’m trying to say, is that we *all* need to watch this one carefully.  This is potentially scary stuff.  Plus, it goes directly against the freedoms we believe in, as Americans.  We fought and defeated a regime that did these things, but now, we’re creating one seemingly modelled after it in many respects. Are we still Americans? Maybe it’s time we stand up and say so. Mike

Response:

It’s more likely to be the opposite scenarios. LV turning us all in if he hasn’t already. But actually I assume that all groups are sifted by the powers that be already. Didn’t I just post an article about some high school kid doing a freedom of speech project who got arrested on account of a walmart photo employee filing a complaint about a picture? And what about the Terminator using the California National Guard to spy http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0707-20.htm Published on Thursday, July 7, 2005 by the Mercury News (San Jose, CA) Lawmaker: Guard Spying Investigation Being Blocked by Dion Nissenbaum SACRAMENTO – Army investigators began looking into concerns Wednesday that the California National Guard was engaging in domestic spying as a state senator looking into the matter charged the federal probe was being used to block his own inquiry. One day after being denied access to a Guard computer that had its hard drive wiped clean, Sen. Joe Dunn said he would seek legislative subpoenas today to gain access to the information central to his investigation and lashed out at military officials standing in his way. Dunn launched his investigation last week after the Mercury News reported on the creation of a new National Guard intelligence unit that has been given “broad authority” to set up new anti-terrorism projects in California. “If they continue in what I refer to as bunker mentality here, it simply confirms to us that our worst suspicions may in fact be true,” the Garden Grove Democrat said. But Guard officials said they plan to voluntarily comply with the senator’s request. “We are going to basically try to honor all of his requests and get the information to him by his deadline of Friday,” said Lt. Col. Doug Hart, a Guard spokesman. The senator said he welcomed the news but that he would still seek subpoenas today in case the Guard does not meet his deadline or provide all the information he is seeking. “Given the fact that we have been hitting a brick wall in our requests, I am concerned that while they’re certainly promising full compliance, their actual compliance is still in question,” Dunn said. Concerns that the National Guard was laying the groundwork for domestic spying were heightened by internal e-mails obtained by the Mercury News showing high-level interest in a small Mother’s Day anti-war rally at the state Capitol. One e-mail from a top officer said he was passing along information on the protest to “our Intell. folks who continue to monitor.” While anti-war activists have raised alarms about the e-mails, Guard officials said the monitoring amounted to nothing more than scanning local newscasts for any stories on the demonstration. They said no soldiers attended the rally and that the National Guard does not engage in domestic surveillance. Those assurances failed to assuage civil libertarians, lawmakers, the governor’s office and Army investigators — who are all trying to determine whether the Guard has crossed a legal line and engaged in domestic spying. Last week, Dunn asked the Guard to preserve any documents related to monitoring of the anti-war rally and the new intelligence unit. At the same time, computer technicians at the Guard erased the hard drive of a retiring colonel who oversaw the intelligence unit and wrote the e-mail mentioning the “Intell. folks.” A top Guard official said the hard drive was erased before they received Dunn’s letter asking them to preserve all information relating to the intelligence unit. After learning that the hard drive had been erased, Dunn demanded immediate access for a computer specialist to recover any data, but was rebuffed by the Guard’s top general who said any access would have to be coordinated with Army investigators who launched their own probe Wednesday. Dunn immediately called on Schwarzenegger to step in and said he will ask the state Senate to issue subpoenas today if the Guard does not comply. In response, the governor’s deputy chief of staff, Richard Costigan, said the administration was doing its best. “There is no intention to deny you critical information, and the governor has directed that all pertinent information (including the computer hard drive mentioned in your letter) is retained and secured for your eventual review,” Costigan wrote to Dunn. On a separate track, Dunn unveiled new legislation meant to erect stronger anti-spying barriers in California. The senator said he would look to expand federal laws banning the military from engaging in domestic spying to cover the National Guard, which is generally exempt from that regulation.

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Have you heard about recent attempts to pass legislation that would allow what some might call "spying" on Americans, by the CIA and military? The changes were first introduced last year, but were removed after details were reported in Newsweek.  Now, with no public debate, the measure has been reintroduced. On the surface, this looks harmless enough.  Hey, it’s all about fighting terrorism.  These rule changes would remove many of the restrictions on various agencies, so that they could covertly observe suspected terrorists. What’s so bad about that? However, we need to make certain that there are some restrictions that remain, so that the rights and privacy of Americans are not lost or abused. As the suggested changes are now, this would not be the case.  In theory, a government with a secret agenda would be able to spy on you, and even pay your neighbor to inform on you–legally. That fact alone, should send up yellow caution flags!! But, when you consider the record of disregard and abuse of laws and regulations, repeatedly demonstrated by the current administration, this proposed legislation should change the yellow flags to RED. How about this scenario: One of the "liberal losers" on this group finally gets his fill of LV and reports him, claiming something totally outrageous…he’s building timers for terrorists, for example. Next thing you know, anyone from the CIA, NSA or even the Army, may be spying on him, tapping his phones, paying his neighbors for information that might incriminate him, etc., etc.

So, if we all chip in, how much is this going to cost us?  ;^) Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

Filed under: Protest Demonstration

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