Filed under: Protest Demonstration
Question:
PM’s daughter protests Gaza killings Dana Olmert takes part in left-wing demonstration outside army chief’s house; protesters call Halutz ‘murderer,’ declare ‘intifada shall prevail.’ Meanwhile, human rights groups send letter to PM, defense minister, calling on them to stop war crimes in territories Avi Cohen Some 200 left-wing activists marched outside the house of IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz at the Tzahala neighborhood in Tel Aviv Saturday evening, to protest the killing of civilians in Gaza on Friday. Protesters march near Halutz’s house (Photo: Niv Kalderon) The demonstrators chanted slogans such as "Tzahala residents, there’s a murderer in your neighborhood," and raised signs calling on the government to "put a stop to the murder of civilians" and stating, "Halutz is a killer, the intifada shall prevail." Activists also shouted, "neighbors, ask Halutz why he’s killing children and how many." Dana Olmert, the daughter of Israel’s Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, also took part in the demonstration. About 30 policemen arrived at the place to maintain order, but allowed the rally to proceed uninterrupted. Some of the neighborhood’s residents, however, were less pleased with the disturbance and squirted water on the protesters from inside their houses. Letter to Olmert: Stop war crimes Five human rights organizations sent a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and defense Minister Amir Peretz, calling on them to act immediately in order to put an end to the killing of Palestinian civilians in the territories, and to "uproot the elements that contribute to this killing." According to the letter, while it is Israel’s duty to take all necessary measures in order to protect its citizens, it is however unacceptable for a sovereign state to employ illegal methods, which in some occasions constitute war crimes. The groups stressed in the letter that one of Israel’s obligations, according to humanitarian international law, is to minimize the ramifications of military operation on the civilian population, and to secure the wellbeing and safety of the Palestinian civilians even during battle. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3261125,00.html
Response:
PM’s daughter protests Gaza killings
Jenna .. ? Naa. she might get her nails cracked, and sis Barbara would go looking for the nearest bar on the way to the protest. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-
Response:
PM’s daughter protests Gaza killings Jenna .. ? Naa. she might get her nails cracked, and sis Barbara would go looking for the nearest bar on the way to the protest. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-
The Prime Minister has daughters with the same names as the President’s??? What a coincidence!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PM’s daughter protests Gaza killings Jenna .. ? Naa. she might get her nails cracked, and sis Barbara would go looking for the nearest bar on the way to the protest. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—- The Prime Minister has daughters with the same names as the President’s??? What a coincidence!
no no no, can’t you read? Dana is the Prime Minister’s Daughter. Jena is the President’s daughter. D-A-N-A vs J-E-N-A. Get hooked on phonics. I was wondering what would happen here if Jenna suddenly was seized by the desire to stop tjhis war and started protesting.
Response:
seized by the desire to stop tjhis war and started protesting.
Busch twins *GET A JOB" … LOL …. never happen. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-
Response:
Question:
Let me give you an example. I don’t know if this is my weird sense of humor or not but sometimes, I just come out with the weirdest comments. I think they are funny but others miss them completely or don’t see the humor in them. For example on a ADD message board someone asked "What is your favorite film and why?" Now I can’t plead ignorance, that I didn’t know what was being asked or that I didn’t ‘get it’ as is some times the case but I just couldn’t resist a weird ‘off the wall’ response. My answer: Saran Wrap because it clings to you. The other thing is that often in a discussion, I can’t pay attention so my only response HAS to be something ‘off the wall’ or weird. I think OV has mentioned something similar. Do you have this type of problem? – Vic If you have children, please teach them these simple math tricks from my web page. http://www.angelfire.com/me/marmalade/mathtips.html
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me give you an example. I don’t know if this is my weird sense of humor or not but sometimes, I just come out with the weirdest comments. I think they are funny but others miss them completely or don’t see the humor in them. For example on a ADD message board someone asked "What is your favorite film and why?" Now I can’t plead ignorance, that I didn’t know what was being asked or that I didn’t ‘get it’ as is some times the case but I just couldn’t resist a weird ‘off the wall’ response. My answer: Saran Wrap because it clings to you.
For me, THAT was funny. LOL. Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me give you an example. I don’t know if this is my weird sense of humor or not but sometimes, I just come out with the weirdest comments. I think they are funny but others miss them completely or don’t see the humor in them. For example on a ADD message board someone asked "What is your favorite film and why?" Now I can’t plead ignorance, that I didn’t know what was being asked or that I didn’t ‘get it’ as is some times the case but I just couldn’t resist a weird ‘off the wall’ response. My answer: Saran Wrap because it clings to you. For me, THAT was funny. LOL.
Yeah, that’s a good one. n’yuk, n’yuk, n’yuk! Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA
Response:
Do you have this type of problem?
I don’t consider it a problem ;- — Ann e-mail address is not checked
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me give you an example. I don’t know if this is my weird sense of humor or not but sometimes, I just come out with the weirdest comments. I think they are funny but others miss them completely or don’t see the humor in them. For example on a ADD message board someone asked "What is your favorite film and why?" Now I can’t plead ignorance, that I didn’t know what was being asked or that I didn’t ‘get it’ as is some times the case but I just couldn’t resist a weird ‘off the wall’ response. My answer: Saran Wrap because it clings to you. For me, THAT was funny. LOL. Yeah, that’s a good one. n’yuk, n’yuk, n’yuk! Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA
Dr. Subtilis, I presume ?
Response:
<snip Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA Dr. Subtilis, I presume ?
I have not idea what you mean. Best wishes, – Vic
Response:
<snip Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA Dr. Subtilis, I presume ? I have not idea what you mean.
1) Concerning Dr. Livingstone … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duns_Scotus 2) Here is the ‘joke’ <sigh Antiwar Slogan: NO MORE HIROSHIMA Anti-Japanese Slogan: NO MORE HIROSHIMA Two contrasting viewpoints; each with their own ‘assumed’ contextual meaning. Let’s suppose that there is a public demonstration … skin head natzis versus peacenicks. Both are out there protesting ‘peacefully’ ( Yeah, it’s a fantasy :- ) Both sides are carrying placards … Both sides have placards which say: NO MORE HIROSHIMA … that is why I consider this joke to be hillarious. O.K. ?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA Dr. Subtilis, I presume ?
How true . HIROSHIMA was gone in a second. Was there and was no more.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA Dr. Subtilis, I presume ? How true . HIROSHIMA was gone in a second. Was there and was no more.
And still is … Yet, you suggest something most interesting … Is it the same sort of thing as the ‘ Phoenix ‘ ?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA Dr. Subtilis, I presume ? How true . HIROSHIMA was gone in a second. Was there and was no more. And still is … Yet, you suggest something most interesting … Is it the same sort of thing as the ‘ Phoenix ‘ ?
AND THE WAR ENDED.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anti War activist holding up a protest placard … NO MORE HIROSHIMA Dr. Subtilis, I presume ? How true . HIROSHIMA was gone in a second. Was there and was no more. And still is … Yet, you suggest something most interesting … Is it the same sort of thing as the ‘ Phoenix ‘ ? AND THE WAR ENDED.
Two spins ( a.k.a. interpretations, inferences ) amongst many … ‘ AND THE WAR ENDED. ‘ 1) hopefully … 2) Do ya’ like rilly, rilly, " think so", eh? I’m sincere. Although others don’t immediately come to mind; there are probably many more ways of canting what you have asserted. … each is worth a circumspectual and discursive visit. Then again, the ‘Phoenix metaphor’ is fascinating because the ‘Description of the Phoenix’ stands at the crux of so very many, different types of situations. It’s a very, very complex, IMO. Cordially, RL
Response:
Do you have this type of problem? I don’t consider it a problem ;-
I’m with Ann on this. Being funny, witty, or a punster is not a bug…. it’s a feature! Priscilla, newbie ADDer
Response:
Me? Weird? Ah, well…I much prefer to think of myself as… Unique, like everyone else Let me give you an example. I don’t know if this is my weird sense of humor or not but sometimes, I just come out with the weirdest comments. I think they are funny but others miss them completely or don’t see the humor in them. For example on a ADD message board someone asked "What is your favorite film and why?" Now I can’t plead ignorance, that I didn’t know what was being asked or that I didn’t ‘get it’ as is some times the case but I just couldn’t resist a weird ‘off the wall’ response. My answer: Saran Wrap because it clings to you.
IMO, that’s very clever but also the type of off-the-wall and out-of-the-box response I’ve often seen in this group. Personally, I enjoy that kind of humorous word play, and if I see a witty similar response from someone else, I think, "Oh, I wish I would of thought of that!" The funny stuff posted here is one of the reasons I’ve kept coming back, although, I must say it hasn’t been as funny here recently as in the past…unless you find our trolls funny. (OK. Trolls might be unintentionally humorous, but they’re seldom cleverly so.) Nancy, Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Do you have this type of problem? I don’t consider it a problem ;-
Me neither. But you can’t expect everyone to find your jokes funny, either.
Response:
Do you have this type of problem? I don’t consider it a problem ;-
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/covent/97/midi/midi2/greenac.mid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Me neither. But you can’t expect everyone to find your jokes funny, either.
Response:
Let me give you an example. I don’t know if this is my weird sense of humor or not but sometimes, I just come out with the weirdest comments. I think they are funny but others miss them completely or don’t see the humor in them. For example on a ADD message board someone asked "What is your favorite film and why?" Now I can’t plead ignorance, that I didn’t know what was being asked or that I didn’t ‘get it’ as is some times the case but I just couldn’t resist a weird ‘off the wall’ response. My answer: Saran Wrap because it clings to you.
Nope…just comes from seeing the world from different angles than the general population….not that it is "weird" per se…I like to think of it as unique or entertaining <g <BG I would have probably said Fuji rather than Kodak….because it yield better prints <rim shot Then again, I tend to do the same, because I enjoy the "off the wall"…I like looking at the world from slightly off kilter angles because that is my first gut response…it is harder to look at the world from the same, "boring" angle as everyone else…but that is what happens when one’s ADHHHD brain is constantly making all kinds of connections at the same time… — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
Response:
Free Soviet Jews! I’ll take two, please.
Response:
Free Soviet Jews! I’ll take two, please.
Why? One would be more than enough.
Response:
"Two spins ( a.k.a. interpretations, inferences ) amongst many … ‘ AND THE WAR ENDED. ‘ 1) hopefully … 2) Do ya’ like rilly, rilly, " think so", eh? 1) hopefully … 2) Do ya’ like rilly, rilly, " think so", eh?" ~ Raving "3) Only if you can see how think so. 4) rarely, if remembered, a cat’s rationalle for balls juggle a diablo double ~ crossed … 5) left ???" ~ Twittering
Response:
I guess, everyone is somebody else’s wierdo Best wishes,! – Vic If you have children, please teach them these simple math tricks from my web page. http://www.angelfire.com/me/marmalade/mathtips.html
Response:
Nope…just comes from seeing the world from different angles than the general population….not that it is "weird" per se…I like to think of it as unique or entertaining <g <BG I would have probably said Fuji rather than Kodak….because it yield better prints <rim shot Then again, I tend to do the same, because I enjoy the "off the wall"…I like looking at the world from slightly off kilter angles because that is my first gut response…it is harder to look at the world from the same, "boring" angle as everyone else…but that is what happens when one’s ADHHHD brain is constantly making all kinds of connections at the same time…
Hehehe…this is a very interesting thread. I’ve always wondered (briefly, then moved on… 
why I had a somewhat twisted sense of humor and came up with the oddest associations at times. After being DX’d with ADD 1-1/2 years ago, now I understand it a bit more. I think this should be viewed as an *asset*, not a ‘weirdness’. I think if it weren’t for people like us, everything would progress in a linear fashion and those "leaps of faith" that lead to startling discoveries and inventions would not have been found (or it would have taken much longer). Unfortunately for me, my wife doesn’t share my sense of humor and I often get those cold ‘what the hell is wrong with you?’ looks… My 17 year old daughter (also ADD) loves it though – I’ll say something odd and she’ll just smile and say "you’re just too weird, Dad….I love you". :-)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Two spins ( a.k.a. interpretations, inferences ) amongst many … ‘ AND THE WAR ENDED. ‘ 1) hopefully … 2) Do ya’ like rilly, rilly, " think so", eh? 1) hopefully … 2) Do ya’ like rilly, rilly, " think so", eh?" ~ Raving "3) Only if you can see how think so. 4) rarely, if remembered, a cat’s rationalle for balls juggle a diablo double ~ crossed … 5) left ???" ~ Twittering
Twittering One! It’s a delight to see you singing your song; your voice in full, rich, creative, melodious bloom. Godess, Twittering One … Lady mistress of the canted perspective pitch! Fast balls … Curve balls …… Screwballs … Slow balls … Hard balls … Goof balls … Knuckle balls … Putting the right spin … Getting the proper English on it … I never asked, before … Are you a wicked snooker/billiards/pool player ? I am terrible at it. ( I.E. whatever the answer … It infers ??? Other than inferring the answer itself, eh. ) So many sorts of pitches and spins … You really are superb at it. IMO, it’s all you! .. I know of nobody finer. "Methinks" it is a shame that others can’t see you for who you are, more easily. <sigh If they could so do; it’s would be all the easier for them to admire and appreciate your artisanship! .. to ‘understand’; to accept; to make use of … the product that you freely offer to the society that you are a part of. Keep well, Twittering One. ….Look after yourself, eh? Cordially, RL
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope…just comes from seeing the world from different angles than the general population….not that it is "weird" per se…I like to think of it as unique or entertaining <g <BG I would have probably said Fuji rather than Kodak….because it yield better prints <rim shot Then again, I tend to do the same, because I enjoy the "off the wall"…I like looking at the world from slightly off kilter angles because that is my first gut response…it is harder to look at the world from the same, "boring" angle as everyone else…but that is what happens when one’s ADHHHD brain is constantly making all kinds of connections at the same time… Hehehe…this is a very interesting thread. I’ve always wondered (briefly, then moved on… why I had a somewhat twisted sense of humor and came up with the oddest associations at times. After being DX’d with ADD 1-1/2 years ago, now I understand it a bit more. I think this should be viewed as an *asset*, not a ‘weirdness’. I think if it weren’t for people like us, everything would progress in a linear fashion and those "leaps of faith" that lead to startling discoveries and inventions would not have been found (or it would have taken much longer). Unfortunately for me, my wife doesn’t share my sense of humor and I often get those cold ‘what the hell is wrong with you?’ looks… My 17 year old daughter (also ADD) loves it though – I’ll say something odd and she’ll just smile and say "you’re just too weird, Dad….I love you". :-)
I remember telling my "Math for Liberal Arts" teacher once that I understood that she was attempting to teach her students to "think outside the box" (because the first chapter was "creative problem solving"—IMO, the most fun chapter of the book….questions such as "Is there a Fourth of July in England?") I told her that while I realized that most people have difficulty thinking outside of the box, the members of my family do not…we tend to not only "think outside of the box," we tend to ask, "What box???? Nobody even told us there was supposed to be a box!!!!" <BG — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
Response:
Let me give you an example. I don’t know if this is my weird sense of humor or not but sometimes, I just come out with the weirdest comments. I think they are funny but others miss them completely or don’t see the humor in them.
Here is another example: I was thinking what sort of weird things you could do if you were very wealthy. I am not talking about the good deeds that we would all like to do. I am also not talking about the nice treats you might buy for yourself, your friends or family but something different in a warped way. What if you sent small packets of $10,000 to various people through regular mail? It might be interesting to see if the packets became lost in the mail or not. It might be interesting to see what people did with the money. Perhaps it might be better if it was a million dollars. I actually would find this a funny experiment but I doubt others will find it amusing with me. Then I thought, what could you do with a sack of cash that fell off a truck in front of you as bandits were fleeing? If you heard that the money was marked and the serial numbers were recorded, it might be nice to: – send out packets of cash in brown unmarked envelopes to people you don’t like. It might be interesting if some of these packets were stolen by corrupt postal employees too. Anyone else have any thoughts about this type of thing? If I keep this up, I will be right up there with RL. 
Best wishes, – Vic
Response:
Question:
20 closed preschools scheduled to reopen today By Rachel Uranga, Staff Writer Pressured by angry local politicians, federal Head Start officials planned today to reopen all but six of the 26 preschools temporarily closed earlier this week in the San Fernando (LA County) and Santa Clarita valleys. The six other locations providing day care and preschool for more than 300 low-income children will open "soon," according to a statement released by the Administration for Children, Youth and Families. The administration was forced Tuesday to close all the schools, which serve about 1,400 students, after it bungled the hand-over of the schools from the Latin American Civic Association to a temporary service provider. The administration denied the civic association’s funding request to run the centers, saying it could not show that it could adequately provide services. At Head Start sites across the San Fernando Valley, teachers spent most of the afternoon calling worried parents to let them know some classes would be resuming. "The parents were very scared. They thought the centers were going to close (permanently)," said one teacher at a San Fernando Center who asked not to be identified. "The parents understand there is a transfer. They are all just very happy to get their children back in school." For a month, federal officials assured parents there would be no interruption of services while the federally appointed Community Development Institute, based in Denver, took over operations from the San Fernando-based Latin American Civic Association. The institute has repeatedly refused to comment. Federal officials blamed the disruption in service on LACA, saying it waited until the 11th hour to sign over key lease agreements and a child care licensing agreement. But LACA officials said they were not given enough notice. On Wednesday, City Council President Alex Padilla and Councilman Tony Cardenas blasted the Administration for Children, Youth and Families in a letter. "The failure of your office to plan and avoid a cessation of service is of far greater negative impact to the families and communities we represent than any of the concerns that your office identified and used as a basis to terminate the contract with LACA," they wrote. Federal officials could not be reached to comment on the letter. LACA officials did not return calls Wednesday. The following sites will remain closed until further notice: Lokrantz, 19451 Wyandotte St., Reseda; Lowman, 12829 Saticoy St., North Hollywood; Martin Luther King, 10896 Lehigh Ave., Pacoima; Napa, 19010 Napa St., Northridge; Valley Plaza, 1121 Vanowen St., North Hollywood; and West Valley, 6649 Balboa St., Van Nuys.
Response:
Failing the children Head Start fiasco exposes government indifference to the needs of ordinary people Federal and local officials failed hundreds of working families Monday when their ineptitude caused a gap in the Head Start preschool programs serving the San Fernando and Santa Clarita valleys. Many of the 1,435 children enrolled in the 26 affected Head Start programs come from low-income families who rely on the free child care in order to work. But these families had no idea the programs were going to be shut down Monday until the doors were locked. Undoubtedly, many parents lost work – and a day’s pay – due to the unexpected closure. And no doubt it will hurt. This was not supposed to happen. The transition to a new provider was supposed to occur without a hitch. But clearly the bad feelings between the federal Administration for Children, Youth and Families, which oversees the Head Start programs nationwide, and local preschool officials influenced the outcome. The problems with the preschool provider, the Latin American Civic Association, have been going on for a long time. It was no surprise that the federal officials were planning to end LACA’s contract and move it to another provider temporarily. But the feds promised the community that there would be no interruption in critical services. Federal officials shouldn’t have closed down the programs until LACA had turned over the paperwork to allow an interim provider to take over the preschools’ operation. But LACA messed up too. The local organization supposedly has a strong commitment to the members of its community. Surely that connection to the community should have resulted in an effort to avoid this situation, or at least calling parents to give them some advance warning. This was a spat, pure and simple, between two agencies. And like most senseless battles, it is the innocents who suffered. Both federal and LACA officials ought to be ashamed of the way this turned out. Los Angeles city officials pay a lot of lip service to their concerns about the well-being of working families, but provided no leadership before or after this fiasco. These kind of betrayals of public trust have seriously undermined confidence in government at the local, state and national levels.
Response:
Less heat means pupils must dress more warmly 10/29/2005 BATAVIA, NY – Batavia School District officials are advising parents to make sure their children dress warmly, as the district turns down the thermostat to offset increases in the cost of electricity and natural gas. In a letter to parents made public Friday, Superintendent Richard G. Stutzman Jr. said that effective Monday, thermostats will be set at 68 degrees during school hours – still warmer than the state Department of Education minimum of 65.
Response:
California to ask for extension to meet No Child Left Behind Last Update: 11/3/2005 7:17:59 AM SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) – Education officials in California say they’ll seek an extension of the deadline for meeting terms of the federal No Child Left Behind Act. A state judge yesterday struck down state action that had declared thousands of teachers working on emergency internship credentials to be "highly qualified" in order to meet terms of the federal law. An advocacy group for poor and minority students sued. A national group called The Education Trust says the ruling, Advocates say the ruling, should serve as a warning to other states that may be thinking about fudging their definitions.
Response:
Middle school students arrested in bomb threats Fernando Diaz Staff writer (November 3, 2005) – PENFIELD, NY-Monroe County Sheriff Patrick O’Flynn today announced the arrest yesterday of two juveniles in connection with handwritten bomb threats found in boys’ bathrooms at Bay Trails Middle School. The individuals are students at the school and were not identified because of their ages, 12 and 13. They have been charged with juvenile delinquency. The Sheriff’s Office was interviewing two other suspects in connection with threats found at Penfield High School. School officials evacuated students on Oct. 24, 25 and 26. Tuesday, the athletic director at Penfield High School received a threat on his voice mail. A vice principal at Bay Trails Middle School also received a note at his home. O’Flynn said his department is continuing its investigation. The Penfield Central School District said in a printed statement that students have been suspended, and that the district was continuing to identify potential suspects involved with the incidents at the high school. The third threat this week was phoned in about 10 a.m. today.
Response:
High school lockdown linked to Bush protest By Dana Bartholomew, Staff Writer VAN NUYS, CA. – Van Nuys High School was temporarily locked down Wednesday after students protested against the Bush administration as part of a national demonstration. Van Nuys High School Principal Herman Clay directed students to remain on campus and at their desks for 1 1/2 hours after he said two dozen students disrupted classes during the protest. Some students said administrators threatened them with expulsion if they left campus and that one student was thrown to the ground as campus police attempted to take their pictures. The lockout occurred as 1,000 Los Angeles students – including about 15 or 20 from Van Nuys High School who were accompanied by an administrator – left class to join a midday rally hosted by The World Can’t Wait – Drive Out the Bush Regime. The New York-based group had staged protests in 70 U.S. cities. "We had a few other kids, I suppose in sympathy, they went around campus uttering anti-Bush statements," said Clay, who locked down the campus between 10:45 a.m. and the end of lunch. "They had refused a directive to go to class." "This really wasn’t a big deal. We only went through (the lockdown) because we didn’t want to take the risk of more kids out of class." The Los Angeles protest included a midday march down Wilshire Boulevard and a rally held outside the Federal Building. At Reseda High School, administrators said about 15 to 20 students were poised to leave school until they spotted a Los Angeles police cruiser roll in with truant Reseda High students. Fines for truancy range upward of $250. Reseda High Principal Alfredo Tarin said students were free to leave as long as they signed out and were willing to pay the fine. He said a handful of students chose to attend the Mid-Wilshire rally. Allan Nalvandyan, a freshman at Van Nuys High School, said he believed campus cops and administrators violated the free-speech rights of between 40 and 50 students by threatening to expel any student who joined their fellow students at the protest. He said officials also followed would-be demonstrators around campus to videotape or photograph them, and that at least one scuffle occurred between a student and an administrator. "It’s really messed up," said Nalvandyan. "We weren’t demonstrating – we were trying to leave for the rally." The Los Angeles school police had no report of any injuries during the Van Nuys High School lockdown.
Response:
Question:
Have you heard about recent attempts to pass legislation that would allow what some might call "spying" on Americans, by the CIA and military? The changes were first introduced last year, but were removed after details were reported in Newsweek. Now, with no public debate, the measure has been reintroduced. On the surface, this looks harmless enough. Hey, it’s all about fighting terrorism. These rule changes would remove many of the restrictions on various agencies, so that they could covertly observe suspected terrorists. What’s so bad about that? However, we need to make certain that there are some restrictions that remain, so that the rights and privacy of Americans are not lost or abused. As the suggested changes are now, this would not be the case. In theory, a government with a secret agenda would be able to spy on you, and even pay your neighbor to inform on you–legally. That fact alone, should send up yellow caution flags!! But, when you consider the record of disregard and abuse of laws and regulations, repeatedly demonstrated by the current administration, this proposed legislation should change the yellow flags to RED. How about this scenario: One of the "liberal losers" on this group finally gets his fill of LV and reports him, claiming something totally outrageous…he’s building timers for terrorists, for example. Next thing you know, anyone from the CIA, NSA or even the Army, may be spying on him, tapping his phones, paying his neighbors for information that might incriminate him, etc., etc. Think that would never happen? Are you sure about that? Now, what if our government ever really took on an evil agenda, including using propaganda to lead us to war, using propaganda to keep us in a state of fear, overstating the level of threat in our homeland to ensure total control over the population, etc.? Just imagine what they could do? We already have an example in recent history. That paragraph above describes Nazi Germany perfectly, as they were led to war by a government rich with power and control. (Remember…German people have always been very well educated and are a proud people–just like Americans. They were not fooled into following the nazis for lack of intelligence. Not at all. The Nazis achieved their power slowly, little by little, using deception and propaganda…and not all at once. Many Germans never realized exactly what had happened, until it was too late.) But then, that paragraph above also describes the current administration perfectly. And, the comparisons have been made before, by many others. Why do we continue to see even more similarities emerge??? The proposed legislation could be a useful tool for law enforcement, if used properly. I’m not so sure that allowing the military and our nation’s "spy" agencies the same liberties, is appropriate, as they are a direct arm of the President, if you will. Just imagine what GWB could do with such power. Gee…he could "eliminate" the liberals who oppose him. I’m not suggesting concentration camps. There are other ways to destroy a person. And gee whiz, his buddies have already demonstrated an uncanny ability to do just that, already. (a modern/kinder/gentler version of….??) Who’s next? Me? You? All I’m trying to say, is that we *all* need to watch this one carefully. This is potentially scary stuff. Plus, it goes directly against the freedoms we believe in, as Americans. We fought and defeated a regime that did these things, but now, we’re creating one seemingly modelled after it in many respects. Are we still Americans? Maybe it’s time we stand up and say so. Mike
Response:
It’s more likely to be the opposite scenarios. LV turning us all in if he hasn’t already. But actually I assume that all groups are sifted by the powers that be already. Didn’t I just post an article about some high school kid doing a freedom of speech project who got arrested on account of a walmart photo employee filing a complaint about a picture? And what about the Terminator using the California National Guard to spy http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0707-20.htm Published on Thursday, July 7, 2005 by the Mercury News (San Jose, CA) Lawmaker: Guard Spying Investigation Being Blocked by Dion Nissenbaum SACRAMENTO – Army investigators began looking into concerns Wednesday that the California National Guard was engaging in domestic spying as a state senator looking into the matter charged the federal probe was being used to block his own inquiry. One day after being denied access to a Guard computer that had its hard drive wiped clean, Sen. Joe Dunn said he would seek legislative subpoenas today to gain access to the information central to his investigation and lashed out at military officials standing in his way. Dunn launched his investigation last week after the Mercury News reported on the creation of a new National Guard intelligence unit that has been given “broad authority” to set up new anti-terrorism projects in California. “If they continue in what I refer to as bunker mentality here, it simply confirms to us that our worst suspicions may in fact be true,” the Garden Grove Democrat said. But Guard officials said they plan to voluntarily comply with the senator’s request. “We are going to basically try to honor all of his requests and get the information to him by his deadline of Friday,” said Lt. Col. Doug Hart, a Guard spokesman. The senator said he welcomed the news but that he would still seek subpoenas today in case the Guard does not meet his deadline or provide all the information he is seeking. “Given the fact that we have been hitting a brick wall in our requests, I am concerned that while they’re certainly promising full compliance, their actual compliance is still in question,” Dunn said. Concerns that the National Guard was laying the groundwork for domestic spying were heightened by internal e-mails obtained by the Mercury News showing high-level interest in a small Mother’s Day anti-war rally at the state Capitol. One e-mail from a top officer said he was passing along information on the protest to “our Intell. folks who continue to monitor.” While anti-war activists have raised alarms about the e-mails, Guard officials said the monitoring amounted to nothing more than scanning local newscasts for any stories on the demonstration. They said no soldiers attended the rally and that the National Guard does not engage in domestic surveillance. Those assurances failed to assuage civil libertarians, lawmakers, the governor’s office and Army investigators — who are all trying to determine whether the Guard has crossed a legal line and engaged in domestic spying. Last week, Dunn asked the Guard to preserve any documents related to monitoring of the anti-war rally and the new intelligence unit. At the same time, computer technicians at the Guard erased the hard drive of a retiring colonel who oversaw the intelligence unit and wrote the e-mail mentioning the “Intell. folks.” A top Guard official said the hard drive was erased before they received Dunn’s letter asking them to preserve all information relating to the intelligence unit. After learning that the hard drive had been erased, Dunn demanded immediate access for a computer specialist to recover any data, but was rebuffed by the Guard’s top general who said any access would have to be coordinated with Army investigators who launched their own probe Wednesday. Dunn immediately called on Schwarzenegger to step in and said he will ask the state Senate to issue subpoenas today if the Guard does not comply. In response, the governor’s deputy chief of staff, Richard Costigan, said the administration was doing its best. “There is no intention to deny you critical information, and the governor has directed that all pertinent information (including the computer hard drive mentioned in your letter) is retained and secured for your eventual review,” Costigan wrote to Dunn. On a separate track, Dunn unveiled new legislation meant to erect stronger anti-spying barriers in California. The senator said he would look to expand federal laws banning the military from engaging in domestic spying to cover the National Guard, which is generally exempt from that regulation.
Response:
courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Have you heard about recent attempts to pass legislation that would allow what some might call "spying" on Americans, by the CIA and military? The changes were first introduced last year, but were removed after details were reported in Newsweek. Now, with no public debate, the measure has been reintroduced. On the surface, this looks harmless enough. Hey, it’s all about fighting terrorism. These rule changes would remove many of the restrictions on various agencies, so that they could covertly observe suspected terrorists. What’s so bad about that? However, we need to make certain that there are some restrictions that remain, so that the rights and privacy of Americans are not lost or abused. As the suggested changes are now, this would not be the case. In theory, a government with a secret agenda would be able to spy on you, and even pay your neighbor to inform on you–legally. That fact alone, should send up yellow caution flags!! But, when you consider the record of disregard and abuse of laws and regulations, repeatedly demonstrated by the current administration, this proposed legislation should change the yellow flags to RED. How about this scenario: One of the "liberal losers" on this group finally gets his fill of LV and reports him, claiming something totally outrageous…he’s building timers for terrorists, for example. Next thing you know, anyone from the CIA, NSA or even the Army, may be spying on him, tapping his phones, paying his neighbors for information that might incriminate him, etc., etc.
So, if we all chip in, how much is this going to cost us? ;^) Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are. Jesus loves you."
Response:
Question:
"Stranger with Parasites" <nevilemo…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1118632637.225866.292360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: >> "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps- Roper >> said. > One of those cases where tone of voice is so important.
He may have said at after 10 beers, and all the "ughs", *belch*, and *giggle* ’s were left out by the editor. Durn LIEbruls. — "…disassemble — that means not tell the truth. And so it was an absurd report. It just is." {[Reporter] You’re worried, sir, that you’re losing some of your push?} " I don’t worry about anything here in Washington, D.C" –Curious George, 5/31/05.
Response:
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Stranger with Parasites" <nevilemo…@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:1118632637.225866.292360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > > Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: > >> "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps- > Roper > >> said. > > One of those cases where tone of voice is so important. > He may have said at after 10 beers, and all the "ughs", *belch*, and > *giggle* ’s were left out by the editor. Durn LIEbruls.
He could be trying to legalize his two favorite hobbies. KC
Response:
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Subject: Anti-Gay Protesters Outnumbered 20 To 1 At Anti-Gay March In > Conservative Leaning City > From: Tempest <temp…@hotmail.com> > Newsgroups: alt.impeach.bush > Anti-gay protesters opposed by 20 times as many locals > Jim Herron Zamora, Chronicle Staff Writer > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/12/TRACY.TMP > Tracy, San Joaquin County — Thirteen members of an anti-gay church from > Kansas who picketed a high school graduation Saturday were met with > about 250 counter-demonstrators, 30 police officers and numerous > residents annoyed to see divisive protest in this normally quiet town. > Carrying signs reading, "America is Doomed" and "God Hates Perverts," > followers and relatives of the Rev. Fred Phelps traveled about 1,800 > miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High > because they were upset that students at a different high school in > Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of > the Gay-Straight Alliance.
"If you’ve ever traveled about 1,800 miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High because you were upset that students at a different high school in Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of the Gay-Straight Alliance, you might be a redneck." KC
Response:
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: > "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper > said.
One of those cases where tone of voice is so important.
Response:
Stranger with Parasites wrote: > Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: >>"If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper >>said. > One of those cases where tone of voice is so important.
I don’t know what’s funnier; your comment or your current nic. — -=Lola —————- You’re living in your own private Idaho Living in your own private Idaho Underground like a wild potato. –B52s.
Response:
Why, we’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto… OTS "Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia" <n…@newb.com> wrote in message news:Xns96732D8FF61F3newbnewbcom@68.6.19.6… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Subject: Anti-Gay Protesters Outnumbered 20 To 1 At Anti-Gay March In > Conservative Leaning City > From: Tempest <temp…@hotmail.com> > Newsgroups: alt.impeach.bush > Anti-gay protesters opposed by 20 times as many locals > Jim Herron Zamora, Chronicle Staff Writer > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/12/TRACY.TMP > Tracy, San Joaquin County — Thirteen members of an anti-gay church from > Kansas who picketed a high school graduation Saturday were met with > about 250 counter-demonstrators, 30 police officers and numerous > residents annoyed to see divisive protest in this normally quiet town. > Carrying signs reading, "America is Doomed" and "God Hates Perverts," > followers and relatives of the Rev. Fred Phelps traveled about 1,800 > miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High > because they were upset that students at a different high school in > Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of > the Gay-Straight Alliance. > "We’re here to preach to this generation that it’s not all right to be > gay,” said Betty Phelps of Topeka, who carried one sign thanking God > for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and another denouncing gays. "They > need to learn some morals before Judgment Day." > Phelps is the daughter-in-law of protest organizer Fred Phelps, pastor > of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, whose parishioners travel around > the nation to picket events and denounce gays, Catholics and Muslims. > Nine of the 13 protesters were members of the Phelps family and their > church operates an anti-gay Web site. > Their presence was countered by a much larger group that loudly > proclaimed, "Keep Your Hate in Kansas." Others carried signs saying: > "Hate is not a family value." > "I’m proud of my city today — we showed we won’t put up with this > hatred,” said counter-protest organizer Justin Daley, a 17-year-old > junior at Merrill F. West High School in Tracy. > Daley resurrected the Gay-Straight Alliance at his school and has > prodded the administration to deal with harassment of gay and lesbian > students. This led to the resignation of a math teacher who allegedly > made anti-gay comments to a student. > The Phelps family read about that and decided to launch a protest of > Tracy’s perceived support of homosexuality. > "These children are clueless,” said Shirley Phelps-Roper. > She said the parents and teacher of graduating seniors "are guilty of > child abuse" for not teaching children the "true word of God" and the > "truth about homosexuality." > "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper > said. > Both sides stayed a safe distance from one another and were peaceful, > Tracy police said. The protest and counter-demonstration did not seem to > have any noticeable effect on the graduation ceremony. > But some people who drove by or walked past were very offended when one > of the anti-gay protesters was seen dragging an American flag along the > sidewalk and the dirt along Eleventh Street outside the high school. > "Take that flag off the ground. You people are just trying to insult > us,” shouted Andy Perez, 35, of Tracy, who entered his niece’s > graduation late in order to heckle the Topeka group. "You losers > wouldn’t know God if he stared you in the face. Get on back to Kansas > with Dorothy and Toto." > The Phelps group also vowed to picket services at several churches in > Tracy today, including Lutheran, Catholic and Presbyterian congregations > that allegedly create a "Satanic zeitgeist" by saying "It’s OK to be > gay,” the group’s flyer said.
Response:
Subject: Anti-Gay Protesters Outnumbered 20 To 1 At Anti-Gay March In Conservative Leaning City From: Tempest <temp…@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: alt.impeach.bush Anti-gay protesters opposed by 20 times as many locals Jim Herron Zamora, Chronicle Staff Writer http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/12/TRACY.TMP Tracy, San Joaquin County — Thirteen members of an anti-gay church from Kansas who picketed a high school graduation Saturday were met with about 250 counter-demonstrators, 30 police officers and numerous residents annoyed to see divisive protest in this normally quiet town. Carrying signs reading, "America is Doomed" and "God Hates Perverts," followers and relatives of the Rev. Fred Phelps traveled about 1,800 miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High because they were upset that students at a different high school in Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of the Gay-Straight Alliance. "We’re here to preach to this generation that it’s not all right to be gay,” said Betty Phelps of Topeka, who carried one sign thanking God for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and another denouncing gays. "They need to learn some morals before Judgment Day." Phelps is the daughter-in-law of protest organizer Fred Phelps, pastor of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, whose parishioners travel around the nation to picket events and denounce gays, Catholics and Muslims. Nine of the 13 protesters were members of the Phelps family and their church operates an anti-gay Web site. Their presence was countered by a much larger group that loudly proclaimed, "Keep Your Hate in Kansas." Others carried signs saying: "Hate is not a family value." "I’m proud of my city today — we showed we won’t put up with this hatred,” said counter-protest organizer Justin Daley, a 17-year-old junior at Merrill F. West High School in Tracy. Daley resurrected the Gay-Straight Alliance at his school and has prodded the administration to deal with harassment of gay and lesbian students. This led to the resignation of a math teacher who allegedly made anti-gay comments to a student. The Phelps family read about that and decided to launch a protest of Tracy’s perceived support of homosexuality. "These children are clueless,” said Shirley Phelps-Roper. She said the parents and teacher of graduating seniors "are guilty of child abuse" for not teaching children the "true word of God" and the "truth about homosexuality." "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper said. Both sides stayed a safe distance from one another and were peaceful, Tracy police said. The protest and counter-demonstration did not seem to have any noticeable effect on the graduation ceremony. But some people who drove by or walked past were very offended when one of the anti-gay protesters was seen dragging an American flag along the sidewalk and the dirt along Eleventh Street outside the high school. "Take that flag off the ground. You people are just trying to insult us,” shouted Andy Perez, 35, of Tracy, who entered his niece’s graduation late in order to heckle the Topeka group. "You losers wouldn’t know God if he stared you in the face. Get on back to Kansas with Dorothy and Toto." The Phelps group also vowed to picket services at several churches in Tracy today, including Lutheran, Catholic and Presbyterian congregations that allegedly create a "Satanic zeitgeist" by saying "It’s OK to be gay,” the group’s flyer said.
Response:
Question:
"Stranger with Parasites" <nevilemo…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1118632637.225866.292360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: >> "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps- Roper >> said. > One of those cases where tone of voice is so important.
He may have said at after 10 beers, and all the "ughs", *belch*, and *giggle* ’s were left out by the editor. Durn LIEbruls. — "…disassemble — that means not tell the truth. And so it was an absurd report. It just is." {[Reporter] You’re worried, sir, that you’re losing some of your push?} " I don’t worry about anything here in Washington, D.C" –Curious George, 5/31/05.
Response:
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Stranger with Parasites" <nevilemo…@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:1118632637.225866.292360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > > Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: > >> "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps- > Roper > >> said. > > One of those cases where tone of voice is so important. > He may have said at after 10 beers, and all the "ughs", *belch*, and > *giggle* ’s were left out by the editor. Durn LIEbruls.
He could be trying to legalize his two favorite hobbies. KC
Response:
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: > "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper > said.
One of those cases where tone of voice is so important.
Response:
Stranger with Parasites wrote: > Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: >>"If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper >>said. > One of those cases where tone of voice is so important.
I don’t know what’s funnier; your comment or your current nic. — -=Lola —————- You’re living in your own private Idaho Living in your own private Idaho Underground like a wild potato. –B52s.
Response:
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Subject: Anti-Gay Protesters Outnumbered 20 To 1 At Anti-Gay March In > Conservative Leaning City > From: Tempest <temp…@hotmail.com> > Newsgroups: alt.impeach.bush > Anti-gay protesters opposed by 20 times as many locals > Jim Herron Zamora, Chronicle Staff Writer > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/12/TRACY.TMP > Tracy, San Joaquin County — Thirteen members of an anti-gay church from > Kansas who picketed a high school graduation Saturday were met with > about 250 counter-demonstrators, 30 police officers and numerous > residents annoyed to see divisive protest in this normally quiet town. > Carrying signs reading, "America is Doomed" and "God Hates Perverts," > followers and relatives of the Rev. Fred Phelps traveled about 1,800 > miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High > because they were upset that students at a different high school in > Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of > the Gay-Straight Alliance.
"If you’ve ever traveled about 1,800 miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High because you were upset that students at a different high school in Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of the Gay-Straight Alliance, you might be a redneck." KC
Response:
Why, we’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto… OTS "Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia" <n…@newb.com> wrote in message news:Xns96732D8FF61F3newbnewbcom@68.6.19.6… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Subject: Anti-Gay Protesters Outnumbered 20 To 1 At Anti-Gay March In > Conservative Leaning City > From: Tempest <temp…@hotmail.com> > Newsgroups: alt.impeach.bush > Anti-gay protesters opposed by 20 times as many locals > Jim Herron Zamora, Chronicle Staff Writer > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/12/TRACY.TMP > Tracy, San Joaquin County — Thirteen members of an anti-gay church from > Kansas who picketed a high school graduation Saturday were met with > about 250 counter-demonstrators, 30 police officers and numerous > residents annoyed to see divisive protest in this normally quiet town. > Carrying signs reading, "America is Doomed" and "God Hates Perverts," > followers and relatives of the Rev. Fred Phelps traveled about 1,800 > miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High > because they were upset that students at a different high school in > Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of > the Gay-Straight Alliance. > "We’re here to preach to this generation that it’s not all right to be > gay,” said Betty Phelps of Topeka, who carried one sign thanking God > for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and another denouncing gays. "They > need to learn some morals before Judgment Day." > Phelps is the daughter-in-law of protest organizer Fred Phelps, pastor > of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, whose parishioners travel around > the nation to picket events and denounce gays, Catholics and Muslims. > Nine of the 13 protesters were members of the Phelps family and their > church operates an anti-gay Web site. > Their presence was countered by a much larger group that loudly > proclaimed, "Keep Your Hate in Kansas." Others carried signs saying: > "Hate is not a family value." > "I’m proud of my city today — we showed we won’t put up with this > hatred,” said counter-protest organizer Justin Daley, a 17-year-old > junior at Merrill F. West High School in Tracy. > Daley resurrected the Gay-Straight Alliance at his school and has > prodded the administration to deal with harassment of gay and lesbian > students. This led to the resignation of a math teacher who allegedly > made anti-gay comments to a student. > The Phelps family read about that and decided to launch a protest of > Tracy’s perceived support of homosexuality. > "These children are clueless,” said Shirley Phelps-Roper. > She said the parents and teacher of graduating seniors "are guilty of > child abuse" for not teaching children the "true word of God" and the > "truth about homosexuality." > "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper > said. > Both sides stayed a safe distance from one another and were peaceful, > Tracy police said. The protest and counter-demonstration did not seem to > have any noticeable effect on the graduation ceremony. > But some people who drove by or walked past were very offended when one > of the anti-gay protesters was seen dragging an American flag along the > sidewalk and the dirt along Eleventh Street outside the high school. > "Take that flag off the ground. You people are just trying to insult > us,” shouted Andy Perez, 35, of Tracy, who entered his niece’s > graduation late in order to heckle the Topeka group. "You losers > wouldn’t know God if he stared you in the face. Get on back to Kansas > with Dorothy and Toto." > The Phelps group also vowed to picket services at several churches in > Tracy today, including Lutheran, Catholic and Presbyterian congregations > that allegedly create a "Satanic zeitgeist" by saying "It’s OK to be > gay,” the group’s flyer said.
Response:
Subject: Anti-Gay Protesters Outnumbered 20 To 1 At Anti-Gay March In Conservative Leaning City From: Tempest <temp…@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: alt.impeach.bush Anti-gay protesters opposed by 20 times as many locals Jim Herron Zamora, Chronicle Staff Writer http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/12/TRACY.TMP Tracy, San Joaquin County — Thirteen members of an anti-gay church from Kansas who picketed a high school graduation Saturday were met with about 250 counter-demonstrators, 30 police officers and numerous residents annoyed to see divisive protest in this normally quiet town. Carrying signs reading, "America is Doomed" and "God Hates Perverts," followers and relatives of the Rev. Fred Phelps traveled about 1,800 miles from Topeka to picket the high school graduation at Tracy High because they were upset that students at a different high school in Tracy gained administrative support for resurrecting their chapter of the Gay-Straight Alliance. "We’re here to preach to this generation that it’s not all right to be gay,” said Betty Phelps of Topeka, who carried one sign thanking God for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and another denouncing gays. "They need to learn some morals before Judgment Day." Phelps is the daughter-in-law of protest organizer Fred Phelps, pastor of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, whose parishioners travel around the nation to picket events and denounce gays, Catholics and Muslims. Nine of the 13 protesters were members of the Phelps family and their church operates an anti-gay Web site. Their presence was countered by a much larger group that loudly proclaimed, "Keep Your Hate in Kansas." Others carried signs saying: "Hate is not a family value." "I’m proud of my city today — we showed we won’t put up with this hatred,” said counter-protest organizer Justin Daley, a 17-year-old junior at Merrill F. West High School in Tracy. Daley resurrected the Gay-Straight Alliance at his school and has prodded the administration to deal with harassment of gay and lesbian students. This led to the resignation of a math teacher who allegedly made anti-gay comments to a student. The Phelps family read about that and decided to launch a protest of Tracy’s perceived support of homosexuality. "These children are clueless,” said Shirley Phelps-Roper. She said the parents and teacher of graduating seniors "are guilty of child abuse" for not teaching children the "true word of God" and the "truth about homosexuality." "If homosexuality is OK, then so is incest and bestiality," Phelps-Roper said. Both sides stayed a safe distance from one another and were peaceful, Tracy police said. The protest and counter-demonstration did not seem to have any noticeable effect on the graduation ceremony. But some people who drove by or walked past were very offended when one of the anti-gay protesters was seen dragging an American flag along the sidewalk and the dirt along Eleventh Street outside the high school. "Take that flag off the ground. You people are just trying to insult us,” shouted Andy Perez, 35, of Tracy, who entered his niece’s graduation late in order to heckle the Topeka group. "You losers wouldn’t know God if he stared you in the face. Get on back to Kansas with Dorothy and Toto." The Phelps group also vowed to picket services at several churches in Tracy today, including Lutheran, Catholic and Presbyterian congregations that allegedly create a "Satanic zeitgeist" by saying "It’s OK to be gay,” the group’s flyer said.
Response:
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What gives ‘Anglo-Saxon’ countries the right to keep their troops in other countries and not others? I didn’t reply, because I had no interest in changing the topic of this thread to yet another boring tedious interminable discussion of Iraq — but if we’re still in Iraq in 16 years or 29 years, then we won’t be in any better moral position than Syrian is now. I wasn’t just referring to Iraq. The US and Britain have kept military bases all over the world for more than 50 years. The question that I asked you is very pertinent. From a fairness pint of view, what gives Anglo-Saxon nations the right to keep their militaries in other nations but other countries can’t do the same? As you are one of the more reasonable persons in this newsgroup, I would appreciate if you can answer this question, as it has been bothering me a lot lately. I can even start another thread with the same question if you it would be more convenient.
I am speaking from memory here, so you may wish to check the details. I believe many countries in this area were designated "protectorates", after WW1, which arrangements were formalised by the League of Nations. The conquering powers had a duty of care to the areas of the Ottoman Empire that they took, and which now constitute Iraq, Palesine, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and the states of the Arabian peninsula. Protecting and policing these states require armed forces. Britain, in particular, also wanted to protect its investments (such as the Suez canal) and trade routes (particularly to India). Some of these bases have passed to the USA, who wanted them to watch the Soviets during the Cold War. On more than one occasion, these forces were required to quell rebellions/insurgencies, such as the Kuwait Emergency (1961) and the Oman insurgency (1962-1976), and possibly others I am not aware of. I don’t wish to get involved in rights and wrongs, or such issues as the Sykes-Picot carve up, just to point out that the indigenous institutions of these states were probably not up to keeping the peace, and required external help, hence the bases. The US forces in SA were, of course, there by invitation.
Response:
Ironically, Israeli and American meddling is driving Lebanese (IE Shia Hizb Allah supporters…yhere are quite a lot of them!) nearer to Iran’s way of seeing things. You are ironically creating the kind of alliance that you fear.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When they also protest against Iranian meddling, then I’ll at last take Hezb-e-Sheitan’s claim to by Lebanese patriots slightly seriously… — Hamas motto: لا إله لهم إلا الموت،
Question:
The Post did not make fun of kids. They didn’t censor the Cartoonist. I didn’t like the cartoon, but I don’t think that the Post should censor syndiacted cartoonists except in the most extreme cases.
This cartoonist is not listed on the Post website as a regular cartoonist. That means they chose to run *this particular* cartoon. For me, even as a staunch First Amendment supporter with a journalism degree, that makes a difference. They didn’t choose *not* to censor a regular feature. They chose *to* run a specific cartoon that, in my opinion, demeans a specific group. Imagine if they had done that by saying "the US is like a desegregated classroom" and then depicted the Black kid in similarly stereotypic, degrading and buffoonish manner. -Dawn Mom to Henry, 12
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tasteless, yes, but freedom of speech still applies. I’m not sure what you mean when you say "freedom of speech still applies." Meaning if one purports to believe in the concept, one should allow the expression of it without trying to run the guy (and the delivery mechanism) out of town on a rail.
I haven’t read any of the protest letters yet, so I don’t know if anyone’s trying to run the guy out of town on a rail. Have you? If one believes in the concept of free speech, then one should support free speech by those on both sides of an issue, even if one supports the idea espoused by only one side of that issue. So, the cartoonist gets to drawn ugly, offensive cartoons, and those offended by the cartoons get to protest, and they too have the right to say ugly and offensive things if they want. (I certainly hope the protesters don’t say ugly and offensive things, but they do have that right.) In theory, if the system works well, somewhere in that clash of conflicting points of view, the most worthy side ultimately will prevail. Or, after a time, a general consensus will evolve that the right position is somewhere between the two extremes. That system for sorting the good from the bad ideas doesn’t work when only one side gets heard. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And the Washington Post didn’t make fun of kids with special needs, But they’re responsible for publishing and distributing a cartoon which ridiculed kids with special needs to thousands of readers. That conclusion hinges on whether the artist was actually ridiculing kids, though. Why shouldn’t the Post be told that readers object to their publishing the cartoon? Didn’t say anyone couldn’t, just that doing so would, in my opinion, be a blow against the idea(l) of freedom of speech and likely not accomplish much.
I don’t agree. Voicing an objection to the cartoon is itself a demonstration of free speech, this time by those who don’t like the cartoon. Free speech and its exercise is a two way street. It’s not just the person who speaks first who has the right to free speech. And I don’t believe that those who are offended should forego a protest because the odds perhaps are against their accomplishing much. Sometimes, great changes result from the actions of those who fight for what they believe in, despite the odds being against them. And, what are the odds of anything being accomplished if they don’t protest? Also consider: Sometimes bad things continue to happen because people chose to remain silent and don’t protest. I find it very hard to credit that the Post would be unaware of the potential responses – outrageous and controversial was no doubt *exactly* the point.
I agree with that last point. Which is why sometimes protesting can be counterproductive, giving offensive viewpoints more legitimacy and a larger audience than they might otherwise had had. I can think of movies or art exhibits that would have closed quickly and quietly if those who found them offensive had simply ignored them. (As when raising children, sometimes ignoring inappropriate behavior is the best way to extinguish it, for even negative attention can provide reinforcement that rewards bad behavior.) However, those movies and exhibits ended up attracting huge crowds because protests drew attention to them. But OTOH, I also know that protest has often changed society for the better. Generally, I have no problem with individuals who may push the bounds of what society considers good taste, especially in the arts and writing. But, I draw the line at deliberate cruelty or abuse, especially when directed towards the most vulnerable members of our society who are often unable to mount a protest of their own. And, I’m a firm believer in trying to educate the ignorant as to what behavior is considered appropriate and providing appropriate consequences for bad behavior. When it comes to corporations, and some individuals, sometimes the only thing that grabs their attention is when the consequence for offensive behavior is a hit in the wallet. The tricky part is to plan any protest so that income of the offending corporation drops, and not increases. Even though I support someone’s right to draw a cartoon that offends me, that doesn’t obligate me to reward that person financially. the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, not about the kids. So? Ridiculing children with disabilities to make a political point doesn’t make the ridicule any more acceptable. The end doesn’t justify the means. I repeat, I don’t believe he was ridiculing children with disabilities, he was using an exaggerated stereotype to emphasize his political point.
And a very offensive, ugly, cruel exaggerated stereotype it was. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would. I guess I am exactly the type of audience he had in mind – I certainly don’t believe he meant the stereotype literally, and it served its purpose of drawing a parallel in harshest possible terms. It can only be seen as ridiculing children if one believes that is how the readership of the Post generally feels about children with disabilities, and somehow I don’t think the majority of one of the most educated/literate overall demographics in the nation* truly feel that way. I could wish that he’d chosen a better way of delivering his message, because reactions such as you seem to be espousing/agreeing with are ultimately as damaging to his point as helpful if one persists in viewing it against his (probable) intention
I agree with you there. Even when someone has a worthy goal, he runs the risk of losing support if he uses inappropriate means to reach that goal. And, not only has the cartoonist perhaps turned off those very people who might have typically supported his political views, he may have alienated those who were "undecided," and he’s probably confirmed the belief that he’s an ass already held by those who disagree with his political viewpoint. Not a good result for someone trying to draw support for one’s political beliefs. … but that’s his choice to make, and I respect the right to express it.
Oh, I respect the cartoonist right to draw whatever cartoon he wants. But I also respect the right of readers to express their disgust at what he’s drawn. And, everyone–including those in the media–needs to be reminded that just because you have the right to draw or say something, no matter how hurtful and outrageous, that doesn’t mean you should always choose to exercise that right. As I tell my kids, "Everything that’s in your head doesn’t have to come out of your mouth." Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm your name, address and phone number). Get a freaking LIFE. I see nothing "horrific" about it I don’t know if I’d call it "horrific," but I certainly think that the cartoon’s depiction of a child with disabilities is tasteless, insensitive, objectionable–and unacceptable. I thought we’d gotten past the point where ridiculing those with disabilities is socially acceptable. "Ha, Ha. Look at the funny looking, drooling, retarded kid in the wheelchair, spouting gibberish and peeing his pants. Isn’t that a just a hoot?" And, if we haven’t gotten to that point yet where making fun of those with disabilities is unacceptable, I think that good people expressing some outrage when such ridicule occurs may help move us to that point. And that would be a very good point to get to, in my bleeding heart liberal opinion. Although I am a bleeding heart liberal, I’m not a big fan of political correctness, and I even sometimes get a good laugh out of politically incorrect humor, but that cartoon is out and out offensive. –what’s "horrific" is the educational policies in the US that refuse to accept that there are people who can’t do certain things. You referring to the No Child Left Behind Act or ? ?
I am referring to the policies that result in teachers who are already overworked having to deal with a different "education plan" for every student in the class instead of segregating the students by ability. Do horrific educational policies make ridicule of those with disabilities OK?
I didn’t see it as ridiculing those with disabilities, I saw it as ridiculing education policies. Does trying to make a political point about the US–which the comic purports to do ("The U.S. is like a classroom in which mentally handicapped children are ‘mainstreamed.’")–make ridicule of those "mentally handicapped" children acceptable?
Only if you interpret it as ridiculing the children, which I don’t. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm your name, address and phone number). Get a freaking LIFE. I see nothing "horrific" about it I don’t know if I’d call it "horrific," but I certainly think that the cartoon’s depiction of a child with disabilities is tasteless, insensitive, objectionable–and unacceptable. I thought we’d gotten past the point where ridiculing those with disabilities is socially acceptable. "Ha, Ha. Look at the funny looking, drooling, retarded kid in the wheelchair, spouting gibberish and peeing his pants. Isn’t that a just a hoot?" And, if we haven’t gotten to that point yet where making fun of those with disabilities is unacceptable, I think that good people expressing some outrage when such ridicule occurs may help move us to that point. And that would be a very good point to get to, in my bleeding heart liberal opinion. Although I am a bleeding heart liberal, I’m not a big fan of political correctness, and I even sometimes get a good laugh out of politically incorrect humor, but that cartoon is out and out offensive. –what’s "horrific" is the educational policies in the US that refuse to accept that there are people who can’t do certain things. You referring to the No Child Left Behind Act or ? ? I am referring to the policies that result in teachers who are already overworked having to deal with a different "education plan" for every student in the class instead of segregating the students by ability. I can’t tell you what goes on in public school systems across the US, but I don’t see what you describe happening in my local schools. You know, way back in the last century when I was a kid, except for the most profoundly impaired kids who were probably institutionalized or kept at home, uneducated, we weren’t segregated by ability level. We *were* all taught in one big classroom. The teacher had one or sometimes two grades in a class with up to 30 students in each grade (It was the baby boomer years, schools were overcrowded, and I lived in a poor area with not enough money to hire more teachers or build more schools.) Of course, back in those days, the teachers weren’t expected to teach students with differences in learning styles or abilities differently. The teacher usually taught one lesson, one way. You either got it or you didn’t. Learn or fall behind. Sink or swim. The exception was reading, at least in the early elementary years. Then we were divided into reading groups by reading level, and we all knew which group were the "dumb kids." Now, at least in my local elementary schools, while children of various ability levels are taught in the same classroom for part of the day and some of their classes, for classes like reading and math, the kids are grouped by ability level and are taught separately: The advanced readers go to one teacher, the kids reading on grade level go to another teacher, the kids who are behind go to a reading specialist, and the students who need special help go to the special education teacher. Once the students get to middle school, the separation into groups by ability is even greater. Students of varying ability levels are in inclusive classes for "specials" like music, art, tech ed, phys ed, but in those classes, the most impaired kids have a special ed teacher and sometimes an aide in the class with them to provide them with help. And there are also some students with severe cognitive or behavioral impairments who, while they are in the same school building, are not in any inclusive classes. But, for the academic classes, there are GT classes; classes for kids who are doing well in a particular subject, but not working at the level required in the GT classes; standard classes; remedial classes; and special education classes. Once the kids hit high school, there are GT classes, AP classes, honors classes, standard classes, and special education classes. Students may be in an AP class in one subject, standard classes in another, and in a special education class for yet another, depending on their ability level in a particular subject. Do horrific educational policies make ridicule of those with disabilities OK? I didn’t see it as ridiculing those with disabilities, I saw it as ridiculing education policies. I know you are not the only one interpreting the cartoon that way (I’ve also read at least three other, different, interpretations of what the cartoonist’s point was), but I can’t buy it. In the first panel, the cartoonist writes: "The U.S. is like a classroom in which mentally handicapped children are ‘mainstreamed.’" And, then he shows how he views mentally handicapped children as well as how "mainstreaming" works, which according to the cartoonist, is supposed to be analogous to what the US is like (not US classrooms, the US): Typical students are uncomfortable and their education is slowed down because they have a drooling, gibberish spouting boy in a wheelchair who pees in his pants sharing their classroom. Then the kicker in the last panel: the retarded kid who drools and pees his pants is placed in charge of the class, teaching the other students. With the point being, as I interpret it, that in the US right now, the retarded kids who drool and pee their pants are in charge of the country.
Now that you explain it that way, one might suggest that he was saying that George Bush is a "retarded kid who drools and pees his pants". Which is more or less how many of his opponents at least claim to see him. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all, Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm name, address and phone number). Steaming mad,
The Post did not make fun of kids. They didn’t censor the Cartoonist. I didn’t like the cartoon, but I don’t think that the Post should censor syndiacted cartoonists except in the most extreme cases. _g
Response:
How you say something makes a difference.
Especially if you are looking for reasonable response. — Jon Quixote What is axiomatic frequently isn’t.
Response:
Crap. He attacked the kids. Crap. What he does is attack every child who needs a little extra Crap. The same nonsense could be said about racist stereotypes. The Crap. Irrelevant. How you say something makes a difference.
Figured I’d reinsert snipped reasons for my attribution line in my other response and this one for those who may not have seen your original "reasoning". If your point was to show how something can be offensive depending on how it’s presented, you chose a poor example in addition to belaboring the obvious. If you honestly feel my responses were "crap", there’s no sense in trying to reason with you – you’ve then obviously made up your mind and choose to add denigration to your assertions, rendering them… well, CRAP. — Jon Quixote What is axiomatic frequently isn’t.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm your name, address and phone number). Steaming mad, The Post did not make fun of kids. They didn’t censor the Cartoonist. I didn’t like the cartoon, but I don’t think that the Post should censor syndiacted cartoonists except in the most extreme cases.
Then what in the H-E-double-toothpicks are you on about? Or are you just ranting to be ranting? _g
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Didn’t say anyone couldn’t, just that doing so would, in my opinion, be a blow against the idea(l) of freedom of speech and likely not accomplish much. I find it very hard to credit that the Post would be unaware of the potential responses – outrageous and controversial was no doubt *exactly* the point. It was a stereotype.
George, you’re being oversensitive. the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, not about the kids. Crap. He attacked the kids.
No, he attacked the education system. So? Ridiculing children with disabilities to make a political point doesn’t make the ridicule any more acceptable. The end doesn’t justify the means. I repeat, I don’t believe he was ridiculing children with disabilities, he was using an exaggerated stereotype to emphasize his political point. Which is that he and his kind is better than others.
Well, in terms of ability to perform in school they _are_ better than others, so where’s the problem? And the schools don’t deal well with that situation. Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would. I guess I am exactly the type of audience he had in mind – I certainly don’t believe he meant the stereotype literally, and it served its purpose of drawing a parallel in harshest possible terms. Crap. What he does is attack every child who needs a little extra help.
No, he attacks the policies that make it necessary for the teacher to try to provide that "little extra help" (which is sometimes a _lot_ of extra help) to a bunch of different students with different needs while at the same time trying to deliver an adequate education to those who don’t have that need. It can only be seen as ridiculing children if one believes that is how the readership of the Post generally feels about children with disabilities, Crap. The same nonsense could be said about racist stereotypes. The Post would never get away with that because they would have 1000 protesters outside their offices the next day.
Well, actually, it turns out that blacks seem to be doing better in all-black schools. Now you’re going to claim that that’s "racist stereotyping" rather than recognition busing kids all over creation is not the best solution to the problem of equality of education. and somehow I don’t think the majority of one of the most educated/literate overall demographics in the nation* truly feel that way. Crap. Irrelevant.
Well, either your interpretation is correct or the mainstream’s interpretation is correct, and we live in a democracy . . . I could wish that he’d chosen a better way of delivering his message, because reactions such as you seem to be espousing/agreeing with are ultimately as damaging to his point as helpful if one persists in viewing it against his (probable) intention… but that’s his choice to make, and I respect the right to express it. How you say something makes a difference.
So find a better way to say it and you’ll have a golden career as a cartoonist. It’s easy to criticize. _g
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Terry, are you aware of the flap over a researcher referring to kids with autism as having Mad Child Disease He will not even apologize for saying it. This was the subject of a petition on neurodiversity.com/ mothers_for_dignity.html which is now strangely gone.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm your name, address and phone number). Steaming mad, Terry www.ADDconsults.com Got ADD? Get Help! www.myADDstore.com Organizing tools, fidgets, books and more ‘Simply everything you need for your ADD’ <a href="www.addconsults.com"ADD Consults</a www.myADDstore.com ’simply everything you need for your AD/HD’
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm your name, address and phone number). Get a freaking LIFE. I see nothing "horrific" about it I don’t know if I’d call it "horrific," but I certainly think that the cartoon’s depiction of a child with disabilities is tasteless, insensitive, objectionable–and unacceptable. I thought we’d gotten past the point where ridiculing those with disabilities is socially acceptable. "Ha, Ha. Look at the funny looking, drooling, retarded kid in the wheelchair, spouting gibberish and peeing his pants. Isn’t that a just a hoot?" And, if we haven’t gotten to that point yet where making fun of those with disabilities is unacceptable, I think that good people expressing some outrage when such ridicule occurs may help move us to that point. And that would be a very good point to get to, in my bleeding heart liberal opinion. Although I am a bleeding heart liberal, I’m not a big fan of political correctness, and I even sometimes get a good laugh out of politically incorrect humor, but that cartoon is out and out offensive. –what’s "horrific" is the educational policies in the US that refuse to accept that there are people who can’t do certain things. You referring to the No Child Left Behind Act or ? ? I am referring to the policies that result in teachers who are already overworked having to deal with a different "education plan" for every student in the class instead of segregating the students by ability.
I can’t tell you what goes on in public school systems across the US, but I don’t see what you describe happening in my local schools. You know, way back in the last century when I was a kid, except for the most profoundly impaired kids who were probably institutionalized or kept at home, uneducated, we weren’t segregated by ability level. We *were* all taught in one big classroom. The teacher had one or sometimes two grades in a class with up to 30 students in each grade (It was the baby boomer years, schools were overcrowded, and I lived in a poor area with not enough money to hire more teachers or build more schools.) Of course, back in those days, the teachers weren’t expected to teach students with differences in learning styles or abilities differently. The teacher usually taught one lesson, one way. You either got it or you didn’t. Learn or fall behind. Sink or swim. The exception was reading, at least in the early elementary years. Then we were divided into reading groups by reading level, and we all knew which group were the "dumb kids." Now, at least in my local elementary schools, while children of various ability levels are taught in the same classroom for part of the day and some of their classes, for classes like reading and math, the kids are grouped by ability level and are taught separately: The advanced readers go to one teacher, the kids reading on grade level go to another teacher, the kids who are behind go to a reading specialist, and the students who need special help go to the special education teacher. Once the students get to middle school, the separation into groups by ability is even greater. Students of varying ability levels are in inclusive classes for "specials" like music, art, tech ed, phys ed, but in those classes, the most impaired kids have a special ed teacher and sometimes an aide in the class with them to provide them with help. And there are also some students with severe cognitive or behavioral impairments who, while they are in the same school building, are not in any inclusive classes. But, for the academic classes, there are GT classes; classes for kids who are doing well in a particular subject, but not working at the level required in the GT classes; standard classes; remedial classes; and special education classes. Once the kids hit high school, there are GT classes, AP classes, honors classes, standard classes, and special education classes. Students may be in an AP class in one subject, standard classes in another, and in a special education class for yet another, depending on their ability level in a particular subject. Do horrific educational policies make ridicule of those with disabilities OK? I didn’t see it as ridiculing those with disabilities, I saw it as ridiculing education policies.
I know you are not the only one interpreting the cartoon that way (I’ve also read at least three other, different, interpretations of what the cartoonist’s point was), but I can’t buy it. In the first panel, the cartoonist writes: "The U.S. is like a classroom in which mentally handicapped children are ‘mainstreamed.’" And, then he shows how he views mentally handicapped children as well as how "mainstreaming" works, which according to the cartoonist, is supposed to be analogous to what the US is like (not US classrooms, the US): Typical students are uncomfortable and their education is slowed down because they have a drooling, gibberish spouting boy in a wheelchair who pees in his pants sharing their classroom. Then the kicker in the last panel: the retarded kid who drools and pees his pants is placed in charge of the class, teaching the other students. With the point being, as I interpret it, that in the US right now, the retarded kids who drool and pee their pants are in charge of the country. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Didn’t say anyone couldn’t, just that doing so would, in my opinion, be a blow against the idea(l) of freedom of speech and likely not accomplish much. I find it very hard to credit that the Post would be unaware of the potential responses – outrageous and controversial was no doubt *exactly* the point.
It was a stereotype. the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, not about the kids.
Crap. He attacked the kids. So? Ridiculing children with disabilities to make a political point doesn’t make the ridicule any more acceptable. The end doesn’t justify the means. I repeat, I don’t believe he was ridiculing children with disabilities, he was using an exaggerated stereotype to emphasize his political point.
Which is that he and his kind is better than others. Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would. I guess I am exactly the type of audience he had in mind – I certainly don’t believe he meant the stereotype literally, and it served its purpose of drawing a parallel in harshest possible terms.
Crap. What he does is attack every child who needs a little extra help. It can only be seen as ridiculing children if one believes that is how the readership of the Post generally feels about children with disabilities,
Crap. The same nonsense could be said about racist stereotypes. The Post would never get away with that because they would have 1000 protesters outside their offices the next day. and somehow I don’t think the majority of one of the most educated/literate overall demographics in the nation* truly feel that way.
Crap. Irrelevant. I could wish that he’d chosen a better way of delivering his message, because reactions such as you seem to be espousing/agreeing with are ultimately as damaging to his point as helpful if one persists in viewing it against his (probable) intention… but that’s his choice to make, and I respect the right to express it.
How you say something makes a difference. _g
Response:
xxxxx Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Excellent post, Nancy. The cartoon was nasty, unfunny, and repugnant. _g
Response:
Hi all, Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm name, address and phone number). Steaming mad, Terry www.ADDconsults.com Got ADD? Get Help! www.myADDstore.com Organizing tools, fidgets, books and more ‘Simply everything you need for your ADD’ <a href="www.addconsults.com"ADD Consults</a www.myADDstore.com ’simply everything you need for your AD/HD’
Response:
Tasteless, yes, but freedom of speech still applies. And the Washington Post didn’t make fun of kids with special needs, the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, not about the kids. Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. — Jon Quixote What is axiomatic frequently isn’t. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm include your name, address and phone number). Steaming mad, Terry www.ADDconsults.com Got ADD? Get Help! www.myADDstore.com Organizing tools, fidgets, books and more ‘Simply everything you need for your ADD’ <a href="www.addconsults.com"ADD Consults</a www.myADDstore.com ’simply everything you need for your AD/HD’
Response:
<< Steaming mad, Terry
Terrence? That you?! _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A
Response:
<Tasteless, yes, but freedom of speech still applies. And the Washington Post didn’t make fun of kids with special needs, the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, No, that’s Not the new York Times, ca. 1977. give or take… Mama! Let’s go to Saks! << not About Our Kids. Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. Jon Quixote What is axiomatic frequently isn’t. Gotcha! Yes, I was abused, I told them so, My lawyer, too. What’s more, Dr. Pepper’s Gonna make it all right ! Mama, she’s tres kewl ~ Not too much Of this, not too much of that ~ Yeah, she’s alright… Cervantes, too! Pop Quiz: Upon witch shelf Was the Don Quixote book Kept? Near what Musical instrumental Succcess? _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A
Response:
PS. Get your head of the sand! _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A
Response:
Hi all, Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm your name, address and phone number).
Get a freaking LIFE. I see nothing "horrific" about it–what’s "horrific" is the educational policies in the US that refuse to accept that there are people who can’t do certain things. Steaming mad, Terry www.ADDconsults.com Got ADD? Get Help! www.myADDstore.com Organizing tools, fidgets, books and more ‘Simply everything you need for your ADD’ <a href="www.addconsults.com"ADD Consults</a www.myADDstore.com ’simply everything you need for your AD/HD’
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Tasteless, yes, but freedom of speech still applies.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say "freedom of speech still applies." Is anyone calling for the government to prohibit the cartoonist from drawing the cartoon, or for the government to punish him because he drew it, or for the government to censor publication of it? Because, if you’re referring to the "freedom of speech" guaranteed by the US Constitution, that only restrains the *government* from abridging free speech. In the US, private citizens and companies are pretty much generally free to restrict speech as much as they want to (assuming that they have the ability to do so). So, while the cartoonist has the right to draw the cartoon–tasteless, insensitive, and offensive though it may be–without interference by the government, private citizens who find the cartoon objectionable similarly have the right of free speech–which they can use to tell the cartoonist that he’s a horse’s patoot. The right to free speech doesn’t protect a person from being criticized for what he’s written or drawn. The right to free speech doesn’t guarantee listeners (or in this case readers), nor does the right to free speech guarantee the right to be published by the Post or any other newspaper, let alone to be paid to be published. So, those who buy the newspapers who published the cartoon, can stop buying it–and exercise their right of free speech by letting the newspaper know why. And, those who advertise in the newspapers also have the right to refuse to spend their money advertising in a paper which published the cartoon. And the newspaper has the right to chose not to print the cartoon. And, nowhere along the way is the cartoonist’s Constitutional right to free speech being infringed. And the Washington Post didn’t make fun of kids with special needs,
But they’re responsible for publishing and distributing a cartoon which ridiculed kids with special needs to thousands of readers. Why shouldn’t the Post be told that readers object to their publishing the cartoon? the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, not about the kids.
So? Ridiculing children with disabilities to make a political point doesn’t make the ridicule any more acceptable. The end doesn’t justify the means. Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage.
Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
<< outrage. Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would. Nancy Unique, like everyone else I hear ya! YOU Go grrrrlll! _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone just gave me the heads up on this horrific "cartoon’ that was just published in the Washington Post. Please consider taking action by writing to the newspaper and the cartoonist. You can see it here: http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/11/08/ If you are so moved, here’s the address to the cartoonist, Ted Rall: http://www.rall.com/email.htm your name, address and phone number). Get a freaking LIFE. I see nothing "horrific" about it
I don’t know if I’d call it "horrific," but I certainly think that the cartoon’s depiction of a child with disabilities is tasteless, insensitive, objectionable–and unacceptable. I thought we’d gotten past the point where ridiculing those with disabilities is socially acceptable. "Ha, Ha. Look at the funny looking, drooling, retarded kid in the wheelchair, spouting gibberish and peeing his pants. Isn’t that a just a hoot?" And, if we haven’t gotten to that point yet where making fun of those with disabilities is unacceptable, I think that good people expressing some outrage when such ridicule occurs may help move us to that point. And that would be a very good point to get to, in my bleeding heart liberal opinion. Although I am a bleeding heart liberal, I’m not a big fan of political correctness, and I even sometimes get a good laugh out of politically incorrect humor, but that cartoon is out and out offensive. –what’s "horrific" is the educational policies in the US that refuse to accept that there are people who can’t do certain things.
You referring to the No Child Left Behind Act or ? ? Do horrific educational policies make ridicule of those with disabilities OK? Does trying to make a political point about the US–which the comic purports to do ("The U.S. is like a classroom in which mentally handicapped children are ‘mainstreamed.’")–make ridicule of those "mentally handicapped" children acceptable? Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
<< You referring to the No Child Left Behind Act or ? ? moi? _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A
Response:
Tasteless, yes, but freedom of speech still applies. I’m not sure what you mean when you say "freedom of speech still applies."
Meaning if one purports to believe in the concept, one should allow the expression of it without trying to run the guy (and the delivery mechanism) out of town on a rail. And the Washington Post didn’t make fun of kids with special needs, But they’re responsible for publishing and distributing a cartoon which ridiculed kids with special needs to thousands of readers.
That conclusion hinges on whether the artist was actually ridiculing kids, though. Why shouldn’t the Post be told that readers object to their publishing the cartoon?
Didn’t say anyone couldn’t, just that doing so would, in my opinion, be a blow against the idea(l) of freedom of speech and likely not accomplish much. I find it very hard to credit that the Post would be unaware of the potential responses – outrageous and controversial was no doubt *exactly* the point. the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, not about the kids. So? Ridiculing children with disabilities to make a political point doesn’t make the ridicule any more acceptable. The end doesn’t justify the means.
I repeat, I don’t believe he was ridiculing children with disabilities, he was using an exaggerated stereotype to emphasize his political point. Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would.
I guess I am exactly the type of audience he had in mind – I certainly don’t believe he meant the stereotype literally, and it served its purpose of drawing a parallel in harshest possible terms. It can only be seen as ridiculing children if one believes that is how the readership of the Post generally feels about children with disabilities, and somehow I don’t think the majority of one of the most educated/literate overall demographics in the nation* truly feel that way. I could wish that he’d chosen a better way of delivering his message, because reactions such as you seem to be espousing/agreeing with are ultimately as damaging to his point as helpful if one persists in viewing it against his (probable) intention… but that’s his choice to make, and I respect the right to express it. As I do your right to object to it. I never advocated against your or anyone else’s right to object, just for his right to express himself. * Cites: D.C. 6th most literate city in nation, summary: http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2004-08-02-literate-cities_x.htm or for the source study: http://www.uww.edu/npa/cities — Jon Quixote What is axiomatic frequently isn’t.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tasteless, yes, but freedom of speech still applies. I’m not sure what you mean when you say "freedom of speech still applies." Is anyone calling for the government to prohibit the cartoonist from drawing the cartoon, or for the government to punish him because he drew it, or for the government to censor publication of it? Because, if you’re referring to the "freedom of speech" guaranteed by the US Constitution, that only restrains the *government* from abridging free speech. In the US, private citizens and companies are pretty much generally free to restrict speech as much as they want to (assuming that they have the ability to do so). So, while the cartoonist has the right to draw the cartoon–tasteless, insensitive, and offensive though it may be–without interference by the government, private citizens who find the cartoon objectionable similarly have the right of free speech–which they can use to tell the cartoonist that he’s a horse’s patoot. The right to free speech doesn’t protect a person from being criticized for what he’s written or drawn. The right to free speech doesn’t guarantee listeners (or in this case readers), nor does the right to free speech guarantee the right to be published by the Post or any other newspaper, let alone to be paid to be published. So, those who buy the newspapers who published the cartoon, can stop buying it–and exercise their right of free speech by letting the newspaper know why. And, those who advertise in the newspapers also have the right to refuse to spend their money advertising in a paper which published the cartoon. And the newspaper has the right to chose not to print the cartoon. And, nowhere along the way is the cartoonist’s Constitutional right to free speech being infringed. And the Washington Post didn’t make fun of kids with special needs, But they’re responsible for publishing and distributing a cartoon which ridiculed kids with special needs to thousands of readers. Why shouldn’t the Post be told that readers object to their publishing the cartoon? the cartoonist did – as an obvious (to me, anyway) parody to make a point about the US, not about the kids. So? Ridiculing children with disabilities to make a political point doesn’t make the ridicule any more acceptable. The end doesn’t justify the means. Doubt you’ll have much luck in obtaining results other than expressing outrage. Perhaps. But expressing outrage when you’ve witnessed something offensive and unacceptable is more likely to get someone’s attention than remaining silent would.
I am coming to the opinion that far too much is considered "offensive". Certainly if you don’t like it write the paper and tell them. But don’t assume that others see it as being a particularly serious matter. It’s a funny thing though, people will write a letter to the editor about a cartoon who wouldn’t even think of writing a letter to their Congresscritter about a piece of legislation. Shows how far our values are skewed. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://www.sundayherald.com/44531 ‘We don
Question:
I only wish the world really knew what’s going on in new York right now. Active demonstrators in NYC outnumber the conventioneers 5 to 1, some say 10 to 1. The demonstrations are BY FAR the bigger story. But I’ve been flipping through the channels looking for coverage of it and I have YET to see a single shot of the thousands of demonstrators. It’s uncanny. All they’ve said so far on CNN is that "’Liberal’ [sic] demonstrators are attempting to ‘disrupt’ the RNC." Excuse me…"disrupt? Bloomberg (current NYC Repub mayor) has put an unprecedented TEN FUCKING BLOCK demonstration-free zone around Madison Square Garden. You’d think it was Hitler’s bunker (which of course, it is.) Unbelievably, even the NYC network stations are not covering anything regarding the demonstrations, at least not with anything more than a one sentence blurb ever 4 hours. There is COMPLETE blockout of coverage on the demonstrations on Fox and CNN. They don’t even acknowledge it. All we get are gauzy background biographies of the Bush family tree, framing GW as a child savior. _____ I don’t know if you saw the Democratic National Convention coverage on Fox and CNN, but it was soooooo ludicrous. And just mind-bogglingly obvious! Fox and CNN had these elaborate sets built just off the convention floor. I kept checking their coverage on every speech. For the ENTIRE week…they did not put the camera on even ONE speaker at the convention to the point where you could hear what he/she was saying. Instead,….. while the speakers were up there bellowing in this inaudibly echo-y distant background, the Fox/CNN microphones and cameras were in close-up of far right newscasters like Fred Barnes and Robery Novak, as they gave their spin on what was happening behind them. "Right now, Obama’s just giving the same old liberal rhetoric about how evil the war in Iraq is." said Novak "Really?", I thought? So I flipped over to C-Span to actually hear Obama’s speech. He never even MENTIONED Iraq. In fact, he spoke only in terms of high ideals, NOTHING specific was mentioned. In fact it was a GREAT speech… positively Lincolnesque. There was not even a mention of beating the Republicans. He was talking about finding common ground. He even praised the Republican’s patriotic qualities. So what the fuck was Novak hearing? I’ll tell you what…he wasn’t hearing ANYTHING. He just said whatever the fuck he wanted. Essentially, the ENTIRE DNC convention Fox and CNN tried to spin what nearly all the newspapers (even the NY Post!) called the most unified, decent and successful Democratic Convention in a hundred years… into a rabid liberal free-for-all, that Barnes said.."embarrassed America in the world’s eyes". They are down to just flat out fucking lying now….so FUCK THEM! I’m taking every god damn opportunity I get, to beat up on these fucks. Bush IS a fascist and that’s what I’m calling him. I’m sick of the far right. They are ignorant hateful fucks like the KKK. And I’m not even willing to let them speak to me. I’m not even bothering to be civil anymore to anyone that likes Bush. I WANT them to dislike me. This is SO unlike me, but I’m pissed as hell. Adios.
Response:
Another interchangeable Kerry Kool-Aid Drinker dribbled: Hitler KKK
Uh-huh. Lord Valve Arrogant Rightwing Basgtard
Response:
The BBC showed a cross section of the people demonstrating – including Vietnam war veterans and some of the marchers opposed to things like the Iraq war, de-legalisation of abortion, and infringements on the rights of the people – on their News 24 segment the night the demo took place, and even interviewed a few of the marchers. Just out of curiosity….. WTF is this (I assume) insult "..Kool-aid drinker" all about? It makes no sense to this non-American, and I’m willing to bet there are others reading this forum that don’t understand the reference…..would someone please enlighten me/us.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only wish the world really knew what’s going on in new York right now. Active demonstrators in NYC outnumber the conventioneers 5 to 1, some say 10 to 1. The demonstrations are BY FAR the bigger story. But I’ve been flipping through the channels looking for coverage of it and I have YET to see a single shot of the thousands of demonstrators. It’s uncanny. All they’ve said so far on CNN is that "’Liberal’ [sic] demonstrators are attempting to ‘disrupt’ the RNC." Excuse me…"disrupt? Bloomberg (current NYC Repub mayor) has put an unprecedented TEN FUCKING BLOCK demonstration-free zone around Madison Square Garden. You’d think it was Hitler’s bunker (which of course, it is.) Unbelievably, even the NYC network stations are not covering anything regarding the demonstrations, at least not with anything more than a one sentence blurb ever 4 hours. There is COMPLETE blockout of coverage on the demonstrations on Fox and CNN. They don’t even acknowledge it. All we get are gauzy background biographies of the Bush family tree, framing GW as a child savior. _____ I don’t know if you saw the Democratic National Convention coverage on Fox and CNN, but it was soooooo ludicrous. And just mind-bogglingly obvious! Fox and CNN had these elaborate sets built just off the convention floor. I kept checking their coverage on every speech. For the ENTIRE week…they did not put the camera on even ONE speaker at the convention to the point where you could hear what he/she was saying. Instead,….. while the speakers were up there bellowing in this inaudibly echo-y distant background, the Fox/CNN microphones and cameras were in close-up of far right newscasters like Fred Barnes and Robery Novak, as they gave their spin on what was happening behind them. "Right now, Obama’s just giving the same old liberal rhetoric about how evil the war in Iraq is." said Novak "Really?", I thought? So I flipped over to C-Span to actually hear Obama’s speech. He never even MENTIONED Iraq. In fact, he spoke only in terms of high ideals, NOTHING specific was mentioned. In fact it was a GREAT speech… positively Lincolnesque. There was not even a mention of beating the Republicans. He was talking about finding common ground. He even praised the Republican’s patriotic qualities. So what the fuck was Novak hearing? I’ll tell you what…he wasn’t hearing ANYTHING. He just said whatever the fuck he wanted. Essentially, the ENTIRE DNC convention Fox and CNN tried to spin what nearly all the newspapers (even the NY Post!) called the most unified, decent and successful Democratic Convention in a hundred years… into a rabid liberal free-for-all, that Barnes said.."embarrassed America in the world’s eyes". They are down to just flat out fucking lying now….so FUCK THEM! I’m taking every god damn opportunity I get, to beat up on these fucks. Bush IS a fascist and that’s what I’m calling him. I’m sick of the far right. They are ignorant hateful fucks like the KKK. And I’m not even willing to let them speak to me. I’m not even bothering to be civil anymore to anyone that likes Bush. I WANT them to dislike me. This is SO unlike me, but I’m pissed as hell. Adios.
Response:
Yeah the coverage has been similar (to the BBC) on the CBC… Lloyd Canadian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The BBC showed a cross section of the people demonstrating – including Vietnam war veterans and some of the marchers opposed to things like the Iraq war, de-legalisation of abortion, and infringements on the rights of the people – on their News 24 segment the night the demo took place, and even interviewed a few of the marchers. Just out of curiosity….. WTF is this (I assume) insult "..Kool-aid drinker" all about? It makes no sense to this non-American, and I’m willing to bet there are others reading this forum that don’t understand the reference…..would someone please enlighten me/us. I only wish the world really knew what’s going on in new York right now. Active demonstrators in NYC outnumber the conventioneers 5 to 1, some say 10 to 1. The demonstrations are BY FAR the bigger story. But I’ve been flipping through the channels looking for coverage of it and I have YET to see a single shot of the thousands of demonstrators. It’s uncanny. All they’ve said so far on CNN is that "’Liberal’ [sic] demonstrators are attempting to ‘disrupt’ the RNC." Excuse me…"disrupt? Bloomberg (current NYC Repub mayor) has put an unprecedented TEN FUCKING BLOCK demonstration-free zone around Madison Square Garden. You’d think it was Hitler’s bunker (which of course, it is.) Unbelievably, even the NYC network stations are not covering anything regarding the demonstrations, at least not with anything more than a one sentence blurb ever 4 hours. There is COMPLETE blockout of coverage on the demonstrations on Fox and CNN. They don’t even acknowledge it. All we get are gauzy background biographies of the Bush family tree, framing GW as a child savior. _____ I don’t know if you saw the Democratic National Convention coverage on Fox and CNN, but it was soooooo ludicrous. And just mind-bogglingly obvious! Fox and CNN had these elaborate sets built just off the convention floor. I kept checking their coverage on every speech. For the ENTIRE week…they did not put the camera on even ONE speaker at the convention to the point where you could hear what he/she was saying. Instead,….. while the speakers were up there bellowing in this inaudibly echo-y distant background, the Fox/CNN microphones and cameras were in close-up of far right newscasters like Fred Barnes and Robery Novak, as they gave their spin on what was happening behind them. "Right now, Obama’s just giving the same old liberal rhetoric about how evil the war in Iraq is." said Novak "Really?", I thought? So I flipped over to C-Span to actually hear Obama’s speech. He never even MENTIONED Iraq. In fact, he spoke only in terms of high ideals, NOTHING specific was mentioned. In fact it was a GREAT speech… positively Lincolnesque. There was not even a mention of beating the Republicans. He was talking about finding common ground. He even praised the Republican’s patriotic qualities. So what the fuck was Novak hearing? I’ll tell you what…he wasn’t hearing ANYTHING. He just said whatever the fuck he wanted. Essentially, the ENTIRE DNC convention Fox and CNN tried to spin what nearly all the newspapers (even the NY Post!) called the most unified, decent and successful Democratic Convention in a hundred years… into a rabid liberal free-for-all, that Barnes said.."embarrassed America in the world’s eyes". They are down to just flat out fucking lying now….so FUCK THEM! I’m taking every god damn opportunity I get, to beat up on these fucks. Bush IS a fascist and that’s what I’m calling him. I’m sick of the far right. They are ignorant hateful fucks like the KKK. And I’m not even willing to let them speak to me. I’m not even bothering to be civil anymore to anyone that likes Bush. I WANT them to dislike me. This is SO unlike me, but I’m pissed as hell. Adios.
Response:
Check out C-SPAN
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only wish the world really knew what’s going on in new York right now. Active demonstrators in NYC outnumber the conventioneers 5 to 1, some say 10 to 1. The demonstrations are BY FAR the bigger story. But I’ve been flipping through the channels looking for coverage of it and I have YET to see a single shot of the thousands of demonstrators. It’s uncanny. All they’ve said so far on CNN is that "’Liberal’ [sic] demonstrators are attempting to ‘disrupt’ the RNC." Excuse me…"disrupt? Bloomberg (current NYC Repub mayor) has put an unprecedented TEN FUCKING BLOCK demonstration-free zone around Madison Square Garden. You’d think it was Hitler’s bunker (which of course, it is.) Unbelievably, even the NYC network stations are not covering anything regarding the demonstrations, at least not with anything more than a one sentence blurb ever 4 hours. There is COMPLETE blockout of coverage on the demonstrations on Fox and CNN. They don’t even acknowledge it. All we get are gauzy background biographies of the Bush family tree, framing GW as a child savior. _____ I don’t know if you saw the Democratic National Convention coverage on Fox and CNN, but it was soooooo ludicrous. And just mind-bogglingly obvious! Fox and CNN had these elaborate sets built just off the convention floor. I kept checking their coverage on every speech. For the ENTIRE week…they did not put the camera on even ONE speaker at the convention to the point where you could hear what he/she was saying. Instead,….. while the speakers were up there bellowing in this inaudibly echo-y distant background, the Fox/CNN microphones and cameras were in close-up of far right newscasters like Fred Barnes and Robery Novak, as they gave their spin on what was happening behind them. "Right now, Obama’s just giving the same old liberal rhetoric about how evil the war in Iraq is." said Novak "Really?", I thought? So I flipped over to C-Span to actually hear Obama’s speech. He never even MENTIONED Iraq. In fact, he spoke only in terms of high ideals, NOTHING specific was mentioned. In fact it was a GREAT speech… positively Lincolnesque. There was not even a mention of beating the Republicans. He was talking about finding common ground. He even praised the Republican’s patriotic qualities. So what the fuck was Novak hearing? I’ll tell you what…he wasn’t hearing ANYTHING. He just said whatever the fuck he wanted. Essentially, the ENTIRE DNC convention Fox and CNN tried to spin what nearly all the newspapers (even the NY Post!) called the most unified, decent and successful Democratic Convention in a hundred years… into a rabid liberal free-for-all, that Barnes said.."embarrassed America in the world’s eyes". They are down to just flat out fucking lying now….so FUCK THEM! I’m taking every god damn opportunity I get, to beat up on these fucks. Bush IS a fascist and that’s what I’m calling him. I’m sick of the far right. They are ignorant hateful fucks like the KKK. And I’m not even willing to let them speak to me. I’m not even bothering to be civil anymore to anyone that likes Bush. I WANT them to dislike me. This is SO unlike me, but I’m pissed as hell. Adios.
Response:
Well,,, that’s the liberal media conspiracy fer’ya !!
: I only wish the world really knew what’s going on in new York right now. : Active demonstrators in NYC outnumber the conventioneers 5 to 1, some say 10 : to : 1. The demonstrations are BY FAR the bigger story. : : But I’ve been flipping through the channels looking for coverage of it and : I have YET to see a single shot of the thousands of demonstrators. It’s : uncanny. All they’ve said so far on CNN is that "’Liberal’ [sic] : demonstrators are attempting to ‘disrupt’ the RNC." Excuse me…"disrupt? : Bloomberg (current NYC Repub mayor) has put an unprecedented TEN FUCKING : BLOCK demonstration-free zone around Madison Square Garden. You’d think it : was Hitler’s bunker (which of course, it is.) : : Unbelievably, even the NYC network stations are not covering anything : regarding the demonstrations, at least not with anything more than a one : sentence blurb ever 4 hours. : : There is COMPLETE blockout of coverage on the demonstrations on Fox and CNN. : They don’t even acknowledge it. All we get are gauzy background biographies : of the Bush family tree, framing GW as a child savior. : _____ : : I don’t know if you saw the Democratic National Convention coverage on Fox : and CNN, but it was soooooo ludicrous. And just mind-bogglingly : obvious! Fox and CNN had these elaborate sets built just off the convention : floor. I kept checking their coverage on every speech. For the ENTIRE : week…they did not put the camera on even ONE speaker at the convention to : the point where you could hear what he/she was saying. : : Instead,….. while the speakers were up there bellowing in this inaudibly : echo-y distant background, the Fox/CNN microphones and cameras were in : close-up of far right newscasters like Fred Barnes and Robery Novak, as : they gave their spin on what was happening behind them. "Right now, Obama’s : just giving the same old liberal rhetoric about how evil the war in Iraq : is." said Novak "Really?", I thought? : : So I flipped over to C-Span to actually hear Obama’s speech. He never even : MENTIONED Iraq. In fact, he spoke only in terms of high ideals, NOTHING : specific was mentioned. In fact it was a GREAT speech… positively : Lincolnesque. There was not even a mention of beating the Republicans. He : was talking about finding common ground. He even praised the Republican’s : patriotic qualities. So what the fuck was Novak hearing? I’ll tell you : what…he wasn’t hearing ANYTHING. He just said whatever the fuck he : wanted. : : Essentially, the ENTIRE DNC convention Fox and CNN tried to spin what : nearly all the newspapers (even the NY Post!) called the most unified, : decent and successful Democratic Convention in a hundred years… into a : rabid liberal free-for-all, that Barnes said.."embarrassed America in the : world’s eyes". : : They are down to just flat out fucking lying now….so FUCK THEM! I’m : taking every god damn opportunity I get, to beat up on these fucks. : : Bush IS a fascist and that’s what I’m calling him. I’m sick of the : far right. They are ignorant hateful fucks like the KKK. And I’m not even : willing to let them speak to me. I’m not even bothering to be civil anymore : to anyone that likes Bush. : I WANT them to dislike me. This is SO unlike me, but I’m pissed as hell. : Adios. : :
Response:
Uh-huh. Lord Valve Arrogant Rightwing Basgtard
The incredible built-in spell-checker strikes again. You couldn’t even spell GasBagTard?
Response:
Just out of curiosity….. WTF is this (I assume) insult "..Kool-aid drinker" all about? It makes no sense to this non-American, and I’m willing to bet there are others reading this forum that don’t understand the reference…..would someone please enlighten me/us.
Kool -aid drinker referrs to the mass suicide by poisoned koolaid of the religious cult led by Jim Jones at Jonestown, Guiana in about 1979. I believe the death toll wass close to 900 , including many women and children who where forced to drink the stuff at gun point. Since then, it has come to mean those who are easily led, or easily duped; and unwilling or unable to function in their own best interests. Chuck
Response:
Cool aid drinker refers to: Jim Jones, the son of a Klansman, considered himself the reincarnation of both Jesus and Lenin. Jim had visions of an impending nuclear holocaust in which only the towns of Ukiah, California and Belo Horizonte, Brazil would survive. With that in mind, he relocated his first People’s Temple to Ukiah to await the Armageddon. Tired of waiting for the third world war, he moved his church to San Francisco where he received numerous humanitarian awards and became the Chairman of the city’s Housing Authority. It was there that he first practiced a ritual called "White Nights" in which he prepared his followers for an act of revolutionary suicide to protest racism and fascism. By 1977, as things started getting weirder, he was forced to move his church to Guyana, South America. There, in the isolation of the jungle, Jimmy created his dream community, Jonestown, and lost his mind. Jim’s nirvana rapidly deteriorated into a nightmare which he knew of only one way to end. On November 18, 1978, Congressman Leo Ryan from San Francisco spent one day at the jungle pavilion investigating alleged human rights abuses. When Ryan, his party and 18 temple members who wanted to leave, prepared to return to the United States, they were ambushed on the airstrip. Ryan, three newsmen and a Temple defector were killed. Eleven others were injured. Hours later, the good reverend ordered his followers to drink from a tub of grape-flavored Kool Aid laced with cyanide and tranquilizers. All 908 did. Children died first; babies were killed by poison squirted into their mouths with a syringe. Then the adults. Most were poisoned, some forcibly. Some were shot by security guards. As the ritual suicide progressed, it is unclear whether Jim put a bullet through his brain, or someone did it for him. When the bodies came back home, many could not be identified. Several cemeteries refused to take them until the Evergreen Cemetery in Oakland stepped forward in 1979 and accepted 409 bodies. The remaining victims had been cremated or buried in family cemeteries. Jonestown itself has all but vanished, stripped by villagers and consumed by a fire in the early 1980s. Some believe that Jones was linked to the CIA and that the Jonestown massacre was in fact a mind control experiment. If it was, it was a total success. Years later, serial killer Henry Lee Lucas confessed that he did indeed personally delivered the cyanide to his "good friend, Jim Jones."
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The BBC showed a cross section of the people demonstrating – including Vietnam war veterans and some of the marchers opposed to things like the Iraq war, de-legalisation of abortion, and infringements on the rights of the people – on their News 24 segment the night the demo took place, and even interviewed a few of the marchers. Just out of curiosity….. WTF is this (I assume) insult "..Kool-aid drinker" all about? It makes no sense to this non-American, and I’m willing to bet there are others reading this forum that don’t understand the reference…..would someone please enlighten me/us. I only wish the world really knew what’s going on in new York right now. Active demonstrators in NYC outnumber the conventioneers 5 to 1, some say 10 to 1. The demonstrations are BY FAR the bigger story. But I’ve been flipping through the channels looking for coverage of it and I have YET to see a single shot of the thousands of demonstrators. It’s uncanny. All they’ve said so far on CNN is that "’Liberal’ [sic] demonstrators are attempting to ‘disrupt’ the RNC." Excuse me…"disrupt? Bloomberg (current NYC Repub mayor) has put an unprecedented TEN FUCKING BLOCK demonstration-free zone around Madison Square Garden. You’d think it was Hitler’s bunker (which of course, it is.) Unbelievably, even the NYC network stations are not covering anything regarding the demonstrations, at least not with anything more than a one sentence blurb ever 4 hours. There is COMPLETE blockout of coverage on the demonstrations on Fox and CNN. They don’t even acknowledge it. All we get are gauzy background biographies of the Bush family tree, framing GW as a child savior. _____ I don’t know if you saw the Democratic National Convention coverage on Fox and CNN, but it was soooooo ludicrous. And just mind-bogglingly obvious! Fox and CNN had these elaborate sets built just off the convention floor. I kept checking their coverage on every speech. For the ENTIRE week…they did not put the camera on even ONE speaker at the convention to the point where you could hear what he/she was saying. Instead,….. while the speakers were up there bellowing in this inaudibly echo-y distant background, the Fox/CNN microphones and cameras were in close-up of far right newscasters like Fred Barnes and Robery Novak, as they gave their spin on what was happening behind them. "Right now, Obama’s just giving the same old liberal rhetoric about how evil the war in Iraq is." said Novak "Really?", I thought? So I flipped over to C-Span to actually hear Obama’s speech. He never even MENTIONED Iraq. In fact, he spoke only in terms of high ideals, NOTHING specific was mentioned. In fact it was a GREAT speech… positively Lincolnesque. There was not even a mention of beating the Republicans. He was talking about finding common ground. He even praised the Republican’s patriotic qualities. So what the fuck was Novak hearing? I’ll tell you what…he wasn’t hearing ANYTHING. He just said whatever the fuck he wanted. Essentially, the ENTIRE DNC convention Fox and CNN tried to spin what nearly all the newspapers (even the NY Post!) called the most unified, decent and successful Democratic Convention in a hundred years… into a rabid liberal free-for-all, that Barnes said.."embarrassed America in the world’s eyes". They are down to just flat out fucking lying now….so FUCK THEM! I’m taking every god damn opportunity I get, to beat up on these fucks. Bush IS a fascist and that’s what I’m calling him. I’m sick of the far right. They are ignorant hateful fucks like the KKK. And I’m not even willing to let them speak to me. I’m not even bothering to be civil anymore to anyone that likes Bush. I WANT them to dislike me. This is SO unlike me, but I’m pissed as hell. Adios.
WEll Lord Valve is knid of an idiot, It refers to this: Jim Jones, the son of a Klansman, considered himself the reincarnation of both Jesus and Lenin. Jim had visions of an impending nuclear holocaust in which only the towns of Ukiah, California and Belo Horizonte, Brazil would survive. With that in mind, he relocated his first People’s Temple to Ukiah to await the Armageddon. Tired of waiting for the third world war, he moved his church to San Francisco where he received numerous humanitarian awards and became the Chairman of the city’s Housing Authority. It was there that he first practiced a ritual called "White Nights" in which he prepared his followers for an act of revolutionary suicide to protest racism and fascism. By 1977, as things started getting weirder, he was forced to move his church to Guyana, South America. There, in the isolation of the jungle, Jimmy created his dream community, Jonestown, and lost his mind. Jim’s nirvana rapidly deteriorated into a nightmare which he knew of only one way to end. On November 18, 1978, Congressman Leo Ryan from San Francisco spent one day at the jungle pavilion investigating alleged human rights abuses. When Ryan, his party and 18 temple members who wanted to leave, prepared to return to the United States, they were ambushed on the airstrip. Ryan, three newsmen and a Temple defector were killed. Eleven others were injured. Hours later, the good reverend ordered his followers to drink from a tub of grape-flavored Kool Aid laced with cyanide and tranquilizers. All 908 did. Children died first; babies were killed by poison squirted into their mouths with a syringe. Then the adults. Most were poisoned, some forcibly. Some were shot by security guards. As the ritual suicide progressed, it is unclear whether Jim put a bullet through his brain, or someone did it for him. When the bodies came back home, many could not be identified. Several cemeteries refused to take them until the Evergreen Cemetery in Oakland stepped forward in 1979 and accepted 409 bodies. The remaining victims had been cremated or buried in family cemeteries. Jonestown itself has all but vanished, stripped by villagers and consumed by a fire in the early 1980s. Some believe that Jones was linked to the CIA and that the Jonestown massacre was in fact a mind control experiment. If it was, it was a total success. Years later, serial killer Henry Lee Lucas confessed that he did indeed personally delivered the cyanide to his "good friend, Jim Jones."
Response:
Another interchangeable Kerry Kool-Aid Drinker dribbled: Hitler KKK Uh-huh. Lord Valve Arrogant Rightwing Basgtard
that’s cause you’re a failed monkey salesman like Jim Jones We drink Kool-aid, you drink Flavor-aid . i say po-tay-toe you say po-ta-ta. Despite his sociopathy, one must give Jim Jones mad props for loyalty and people management skills. First, he transforms his seemingly mainstream San Francisco congregation into a full-blown religious cult. Next he convinces the government of Guyana to give him 300 acres of South American jungle, and relocates 1,100 cult members to this distant hellhole. Finally, in 1978 after it all goes horribly wrong, Jones still manages to convince 900 of them to swallow poison in massively parallel suicide, the likes of which the world had never seen. Arrested in a cruisy restroom in Los Angeles. By the way, it wasn’t Kool-Aid. It was Flavor Aid
Previous page