Activism Change

Our future

Question:

On Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:42:59 -0500, Jean Coyle <jeanco…@earthlink.net> wrote:

<snip> >Btw, being autistic and retarded my son doesn’t play outside anywhere >without direct supervision,but thanks for your concern.

Hello Jean, I too have a son that was diagnosed with autism and retardation.  We have him in intensive therapy and he is doing much better now.  I can’t tell you how much havoc a special needs kid plays on a marriage. We’ve had our share of problems, but we are still hanging in there together.   I’d like to hear about how other people stayed together even when life presented many challenges. MH

Response:

>I’m not a woman, but I thought I’d put my $0.02 in. Faith in god is what >has helped me raise 3 small children alone for the last 4 years w/o any >family or supportive ex to rely on. And it helped my mom raise my sister >and I alone too. She never worried about the statistics, she just did >what she had to do to teach us good values. Perhaps that is why my >sister is an insurance adjuster, and I work for the state now. We’re >both very happy and well-adjusted, and based on our childhood, i predict >that we will raise happy and well-adjusted families too.<

With or without a father?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cici in Texas wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:26:17 GMT, Steel D. wrote: > >Lee wrote: > >>You’re right.  And parents have ability to change the future.  That’s > >>what you don’t get. > >Yes, ideally they should.  But when you look at the results that we’re > >producing?  when one out of two marriages wind up with children > >who suffer?  I’m sure you know, the statistics say the greatest > >percentage of criminals originates from families without a father. > >Yes, I "get" that parents have the *technical ability* to affect our > >future.  But do you "get" that I’m talking about the *current results* > >rather than the parents (theoretical) capability? > >And Lee, have you noticed that most of our family values are gone? > >And no one respects anyone no more? This country became like > >a big family where everyone does what they want. No belief in God, > >no trust and respect for family values, no respect for a family leader, > >teens come before parents, and everyone fights against one another > >to win some kid who’ll someday grow up and leave you.  Then we die. > >Works great, doesn’t it? > >  – Steel D. > >- – - > >  BTW, I think you’re the only woman who’s believes in God around here > Um . . . no, she’s not. > Cici in Texas > (Remove * from email address to reply)

I’m not a woman, but I thought I’d put my $0.02 in. Faith in god is what has helped me raise 3 small children alone for the last 4 years w/o any family or supportive ex to rely on. And it helped my mom raise my sister and I alone too. She never worried about the statistics, she just did what she had to do to teach us good values. Perhaps that is why my sister is an insurance adjuster, and I work for the state now. We’re both very happy and well-adjusted, and based on our childhood, i predict that we will raise happy and well-adjusted families too.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:26:17 GMT, Steel D. wrote: >Lee wrote: >>You’re right.  And parents have ability to change the future.  That’s >>what you don’t get. >Yes, ideally they should.  But when you look at the results that we’re >producing?  when one out of two marriages wind up with children >who suffer?  I’m sure you know, the statistics say the greatest >percentage of criminals originates from families without a father. >Yes, I "get" that parents have the *technical ability* to affect our >future.  But do you "get" that I’m talking about the *current results* >rather than the parents (theoretical) capability? >And Lee, have you noticed that most of our family values are gone? >And no one respects anyone no more? This country became like >a big family where everyone does what they want. No belief in God, >no trust and respect for family values, no respect for a family leader, >teens come before parents, and everyone fights against one another >to win some kid who’ll someday grow up and leave you.  Then we die. >Works great, doesn’t it? >  – Steel D. >- – - >  BTW, I think you’re the only woman who’s believes in God around here

Um . . . no, she’s not. Cici in Texas (Remove * from email address to reply)

Response:

Lee wrote: >You’re right.  And parents have ability to change the future.  That’s >what you don’t get.

Yes, ideally they should.  But when you look at the results that we’re producing?  when one out of two marriages wind up with children who suffer?  I’m sure you know, the statistics say the greatest percentage of criminals originates from families without a father. Yes, I "get" that parents have the *technical ability* to affect our future.  But do you "get" that I’m talking about the *current results* rather than the parents (theoretical) capability? And Lee, have you noticed that most of our family values are gone? And no one respects anyone no more? This country became like a big family where everyone does what they want. No belief in God, no trust and respect for family values, no respect for a family leader, teens come before parents, and everyone fights against one another to win some kid who’ll someday grow up and leave you.  Then we die. Works great, doesn’t it?   — Steel D. – - –   BTW, I think you’re the only woman who’s believes in God around here

Response:

I think a person has to be omnipotent to know exactly how to raise a perfect child and the child has to be omnipotent as a result.  Since we are human, and lots of times it takes personal experience to know what’s good or not good for oneself,  Live and learn should be the motto.  Think of life as a game and enjoy it whichever one likes. …

Response:

>Dick S. wrote in message <34af5324.20242…@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com>… >     What bothers me is, all this mindless, middlebrow bullshit about >children being "our future."  So, what’s new? Children have always, >technically, represented our future. But what does that mean? >What is so important about knowing that children are "our future"? >Life as it is right now – today’s reality in this country – the people >lying on the streets and park benches, living in the dysfunctional >homes, the prisons, and the mental institutions, the addicts and drunks >and neurotic shoppers, these people were all once children described >as "our future."  So, this is it, folks. This is what the system is >producin’. The adults you see today are what kids become.

You’re right.  And parents have ability to change the future.  That’s what you don’t get. It’s sad that you only choose to see the negative side of life because there’s an awfully lot of really good people in this country who care and help each other.  FYI – "people lying on the streets and park benches, living in the dysfunctional homes, the prisons, and the mental institutions, the addicts and drunks and neurotic shoppers" have always been around.  It’s not something new.   Victoria "Lee" For address go here: http://scican.net/~haxton/address.html

Response:

Lee (C…@sig.4address) wrote: >I think three words that you dislike say a lot about who you are not – >touchy-feely, warm.  I guess if I were as angry as you appear to be >those words would upset me too.

Can you please be a little more responsible?  Using lipstick with artificial ingredients is iresponsible.It’s known to cause penis cancer. Thank you for your co-operation. — Steel D.

Response:

In alt.support.marriage Dick S. <dic…@no.advertisments> wrote: : One of the more embarrassing strains of American thought is the : liberal-humanist, touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy, New Age, : environmental-friendly pseudo-wisdom that appears on cars bumper : stickers: "Have you hugged your kid today?" , "Think Globally, Act : Locally" , and most  embarrassing, "Practice Random Kindness and : Senseless Acts of Beauty." Actually, my vote for most embarrassing goes to (the envelope please): "Negotiate Power Exchange" Not only moronic, but incomplete. As if those with or in power could be convinced by a bumper sticker to negotiate away said power in exchange for… exactly what? More power? Less power? Does this imperative refer to social contracts or utility deregulation? : I’m waiting for a car bumper sticker that says, : "We have a son in public school who hasn’t been shot yet, and he sells : drugs to your fuckin’ honor student." I rather like the following real life version observed in Mill Valley, CA: "My pothead can smoke your honor student!" Claudia Los Angeles, CA

Response:

>Claudia >Los Angeles, CA

Nice name.  The best ‘gal I’ve ever been with was also named Claudia. >Actually, my vote for most embarrassing goes to (the envelope please): >"Negotiate Power Exchange" >Not only moronic, but incomplete. As if those with or in power could be

"Negotiate Power Exchange"  …  HA! HA!! HA!!!  :))) Yah, I agree… >I rather like the following real life version observed in Mill Valley, = CA: >"My pothead can smoke your honor student!"

Aw man, I’ve got to write that down!! You folks from California are currently takin’ East Coast out.  I should move there!  LOL Have you noticed, whenever there’s a problem in this country they get a bunch of celebrities or children together to sing a song about it? Drought, famine, drugs; they sing a song about it… This is an idea that grew out of the ’60s peace movement. The idea then was that if enough "good" people sang, chanted, and held hands, all the "evil" people would give up their money, weapons, and power. Worked great, didn’t it?  – Steel D.

Response:

>In alt.support.marriage Dick S. <dic…@no.advertisments> wrote: >: One of the more embarrassing strains of American thought is the >: liberal-humanist, touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy, New Age, >: environmental-friendly pseudo-wisdom that appears on cars bumper >: stickers: "Have you hugged your kid today?" , "Think Globally, Act >: Locally" , and most  embarrassing, "Practice Random Kindness and >: Senseless Acts of Beauty."

Those I like but I like people and think being nice to friends and family is one of the most important things you can do.  When elderly people are asked what they regret most it isn’t not working harder, making more money, having a bigger house, car, bank account – it’s taking time with family and friends.  You can always get more money and you can never get more time. I think three words that you dislike say a lot about who you are not – touchy-feely, warm.  I guess if I were as angry as you appear to be those words would upset me too. Victoria "Lee" For address go here: http://scican.net/~haxton/address.html

Response:

Lee <C…@sig.4address> wrote:

: Those I like but I like people and think being nice to friends and : family is one of the most important things you can do.  When elderly : people are asked what they regret most it isn’t not working harder, : making more money, having a bigger house, car, bank account – it’s : taking time with family and friends.  You can always get more money : and you can never get more time. And ain’t it a good thing too. Some people don’t deserve the time they already got – and wasted. Screw "nice". I’ll be "nice" to my racist, bigotted, born-a-rich-kid asshole, classist, rude and obnoxious idiot of brother-in-law the same day So. California freezes over. Good thing we don’t even live on the same continent. The only way some families can be "nice" to each other is by avoiding each other like the plague. : I think three words that you dislike say a lot about who you are not – : touchy-feely, warm.   Oh, I’m all three (ask my husband), yet I agree with Dick Steele’s assessment of the annoying insipidness of such adjectives when used in your generalized way – or worse, when inflicted on the general population via mindless bumper stickers and other touchy-feely modes of "communication". : I guess if I were as angry as you appear to be : those words would upset me too. Those "words" already upset you, or you wouldn’t be going on about them. Plus _Anger Is An Energy_ (bonus points to anyone who can source that quote. Hint: late 1970’s). And energy, along with a well-honed sense of humor, is just about the only vehicle of change out of this late 20th century cultural stagnation. If you can’t work up the energy to be angry about something with the status quo, you are either asleep, brain dead, in terminal denial or living in a cave in Antarctica. Claudia Los Angeles, CA "Offending Your Reality Since 1961"

Response:

Waytired wrote: >I mean in one post, you blast liberals and here you go blasting = conservatives. >Is nobody sacred?=20

Hey babe.  I’m afraid not.  Not when they’re *both* gettin’ under my virtual loupe. I think, most nowadays politicians and lawyers are lousy. Hay kids!  It’s mostly bullshit and garbage, and none of the stuff they tell you is true.  And when your dumb-ass father says he wants you to "amount to something", he means make a lot of money.  How do you think the word AMOUNT go tin there? Dana?  Those nicotine patches seem to work pretty well, but I understand it’s kind of hard to keep ‘em lit. Right? — Steel D.

Response:

In alt.support.marriage queenpin68 <queenpi…@yahoo.com> wrote: : Nothing against kids and yet you have felt the need to use foul language : profusely through out this post? If a woman wrote this rant you’d be : asking her if it was "her time of the month". This type of language : never helps in making an intelligent point. Why don’t you try to tone it : down a bit? Sometimes you come across as more than slightly deranged. : Queen As a fellow woman, I must point out that not only did I enjoy Dick S.’s post, but share his views on kids & culture in general. So what if the language’s foul. The whole fucking world is foul. If you want clean language, go to alt.support.sweet-talk. Claudia Los Angeles, CA

Response:

queenpin68 wrote: >Sometimes you come across as more than slightly deranged.

=46rustrated Cathi, (cat…@visi.com) Why don’t you get a life, and get off my back. Get lost.

Response:

Dick S. wrote in message <34af5324.20242…@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com>…

     What bothers me is, all this mindless, middlebrow bullshit about children being "our future."  So, what’s new? Children have always, technically, represented our future. But what does that mean? What is so important about knowing that children are "our future"? Life as it is right now – today’s reality in this country – the people lying on the streets and park benches, living in the dysfunctional homes, the prisons, and the mental institutions, the addicts and drunks and neurotic shoppers, these people were all once children described as "our future."  So, this is it, folks. This is what the system is producin’. The adults you see today are what kids become. _________________________ (Me): I think that is more or less the point of describing our children as "our future".  We can either have a future with more and more of negative things you describe…or we can try to improve things.  "Children are our future" is not necessarily a positive (hopeful consequences) or negative (dire consequences) statement.  That is why you hear this often.  The hopes are to produce functioning, well-adjusted, productive, good-hearted, intelligent adults. _________________________ (Dick again…): Is anything really going to make it any different? To me, they’re just another crop of kids waiting to become wage slaves and good little consumers. You know what I see when I look at today’s kids? Tomorrow’s fucked-up adults… _________________________ (Me again…): Well, I suppose we could all just stop trying to rear these types of people that I described above.  We could just give up on them and go ahead and hand them drugs and alcohol, mistreat them, neglect them, etc., because according to your argument, nothing we do is going to change the fact that they will become horrible adults. Luckily, most parents and educators don’t give up on their kids. _________________________ (And, Dick again….): And, what is all this nonsense about parental guidance, parental control, and parental advisories? The whole reason people in this country are as fucked up as they are and make such ignorant decisions on public policy; is that they listened too closely to their parents in the first place. This is an authoritarian country with too many laws, rules, controls, and restrictions. "Do this! Don’t do that! Shut up! Sit still! No talking! Stand up straight!"  No wonder kids are so fucked up; traditional authoritarian values.  It starts in kindergarten: They give you a coloring book and some crayons, and tell you, "Be creative . . . but don’t go outside the lines." Fuck parents! __________________________ (And me, again): There is a balance in parenting (you aren’t a parent, correct?). Authoritarian, authoritative, permissive, and neglectful are the general types of parenting behaviors.  Authoritative (having firm but not rigid rules and good communication with the child, among other attributes) is seen as the most desireable. What you are condemning above is a very conservative approach as opposed to liberal.  I take it you are a liberal in this arena?  (Social policies…conservative view is hands-on approach — limiting social behavior; liberal view is hands-off approach — freedom from limits in social behavior). _______________________ (Dick again): One of the more embarrassing strains of American thought is the liberal-humanist, touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy, New Age, environmental-friendly pseudo-wisdom that appears on cars bumper stickers: "Have you hugged your kid today?" , "Think Globally, Act Locally" , and most  embarrassing, "Practice Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty." Isn’t that  precious? You know, if kindness and beauty require public reminders, maybe it’s time we just throw in the jock. Here’s another middlebrow abomination: ________________________ (Me…one last time…if anyone knows how to get the brackets on for responding to a post using Outlook Express, I’d love an email!)  :) Hmm….guess you aren’t a big bumper-sticker buyer!  :)  Personally, I dislike bumper stickers in general whatever the sentiment (although some of pretty funny)…too hard to scrape off the car.  :) Don’t you think though that they are pretty harmless?  I mean, they are just some person’s little statement…they somehow identify with it.  And the messages range from political to social to personal.  So what? I know you probably are just using bumper stickers as an example…so I will try not to treat it as lightly as it begs to be treated.  I think the reason you see the influx of sentimentality and "warm and fuzzy" bumper-stickers (for example) is that we don’t have enough of it in the real world.  Look at Norman Rockwell…..no one has a life as innocent, as sentimental, as beautiful and uncomplicated as that.  It is a cold, dark world.  How many times do you pass a person on the street and just look away.  Do you (not you personally) treat strangers as actual people or just as objects inhabiting the same space as you.  I know I don’t.  I was surprised just today when I passed by an older gentlemen who smiled at me and said "Merry Christmas".  It caught me so off-gaurd that I almost did not have the voice to respond. Maybe we do need public reminders to act with kindness…maybe it really *is* that bad…

Response:

Dick S. wrote:

" > I haven’t gotten anything against kids, no. But I think, it’s time we > abandon sentimental, emotional kitsch as a prime means of public > expression.

Nothing against kids and yet you have felt the need to use foul language profusely through out this post? If a woman wrote this rant you’d be asking her if it was "her time of the month". This type of language never helps in making an intelligent point. Why don’t you try to tone it down a bit? Sometimes you come across as more than slightly deranged. Queen

Response:

     What bothers me is, all this mindless, middlebrow bullshit about children being "our future."  So, what’s new? Children have always, technically, represented our future. But what does that mean? What is so important about knowing that children are "our future"? Life as it is right now – today’s reality in this country – the people lying on the streets and park benches, living in the dysfunctional homes, the prisons, and the mental institutions, the addicts and drunks and neurotic shoppers, these people were all once children described as "our future."  So, this is it, folks. This is what the system is producin’. The adults you see today are what kids become. Is anything really going to make it any different? To me, they’re just another crop of kids waiting to become wage slaves and good little consumers. You know what I see when I look at today’s kids? Tomorrow’s fucked-up adults… And, what is all this nonsense about parental guidance, parental control, and parental advisories? The whole reason people in this country are as fucked up as they are and make such ignorant decisions on public policy; is that they listened too closely to their parents in the first place. This is an authoritarian country with too many laws, rules, controls, and restrictions. "Do this! Don’t do that! Shut up! Sit still! No talking! Stand up straight!"  No wonder kids are so fucked up; traditional authoritarian values.  It starts in kindergarten: They give you a coloring book and some crayons, and tell you, "Be creative . . . but don’t go outside the lines." Fuck parents! One of the more embarrassing strains of American thought is the liberal-humanist, touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy, New Age, environmental-friendly pseudo-wisdom that appears on cars bumper stickers: "Have you hugged your kid today?" , "Think Globally, Act Locally" , and most  embarrassing, "Practice Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty." Isn’t that  precious? You know, if kindness and beauty require public reminders, maybe it’s time we just throw in the jock. Here’s another middlebrow abomination:   "Our son is an honor student at Franklin School." I’m waiting for a car bumper sticker that says, "We have a son in public school who hasn’t been shot yet, and he sells drugs to your fuckin’ honor student." Or, let’s get real: "Our son was a teen suicide because of unrealistic expectations by his father." I haven’t gotten anything against kids, no. But I think, it’s time we abandon sentimental, emotional kitsch as a prime means of public expression.

Response:

Filed under: Peace movement

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