Response From Craig Weber, Owner, Geneseo Campground

Question:

. There is no law in Illinois stopping you from staying in a parking lot. Since Wal-Mart has informed the State of Illinois that they do not choose to be licensed as a campground then they must take action to prevent their parking lots from being used in that manner.

Huh? If there is no law stopping you from staying in a parking lot….. why does Walmart need a campground license. Hunter

Response:

My mamma always said: "You *are* the company you keep." If the man has chosen to be part of an organization which caused a problem, he has become part of the problem unless he is actively working to solve said problem. I blame and punnish all IL campground owners. Lon, who will not camp or spend money in IL until their attitude is adjusted.

Undoubtedly, the man chose to be a part of this organization because the organization attempts to direct customers to his business. NORMALLY, this is done through camping directories distributed at rest areas and RV dealers, and through advertising in camping publications in the midwest, as well as other similar business generating activities. It’s entirely possible that this campground owner was totally unaware of any lobbying involving WalMart. I can say this with a fair amount of confidence, because I was a campground owner in Illinois a few years ago, and a member of the Illinois Campground Owners Association, and even though I was a member I had no knowledge of the Associations’ activities other than it’s advertising. Why, you say, did I not know? Because I was so damn busy trying to run the campground, I didn’t have time for any of the meetings held all over the state. I’m sure it’s the same situation for a large number of the Illinois campground owners. So, needless to say, I’m not ready to hang every Illinois campground owner like Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy, just because they chose to join an association that made a bad decision. — Gary Sanders Bait for spammers:

Response:

<snip So, needless to say, I’m not ready to hang every Illinois campground owner like Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy, just because they chose to join an association that made a bad decision. — Gary Sanders

I am. They don’t get my money until the law is changed. Even those who were not part of the problem had better become part of the solution if they want my money. Otherwise, they pay for attempting to benifit from being a member of the organization which caused the problem. Quite simple really. The bad decision must be changed. Lon, who realizes the cost of memberships and apathy.

Response:

Lon, I somehow doubt the Illinois CG Association is staying up nights worrying about losing the $20 or whatever you spend nightly. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps people with your attitude might not be welcome in Illinois? Or anywhere? I seriously doubt if the few dollars you might spend is enough money to pay for the abuse these owners would have to put up with from people with your carved in stone mindset. For all you know, the gentleman in question may very well be trying to change things from within, yet you say he is "attempting to benefit" from membership in his organization. Point is, you don’t have any idea of what you’re talking about, but instead are dictating how things must be done, to a person who had no part, at all, in the Organization’s decisions. You absolutely have the right to disagree with their decision, but to tell the individual gentleman to shape up or else is pure, egotistical poppycock. Me, I’ll go where and when I want, accept things for what they are, and not deprive myself of enjoying the adventure because of actions over which I have no control. You sound very much like that guy from Las Vegas, who continually blasts the cg owners miles and miles from Kissimmee Florida as the cause of the WalMart ban there. He doesn’t know whether that’s so, just like you, but is so sensitive to the loss of his "rights" that he lashes out at all and sundry who may be involved, however remotely. Canoli, as ever was.

Response:

I have to give you credit, Ralph/Ellen: it takes a certain flair to call someone a liar, without having the balls to come right out and say it. You, of course, know for a certainty that this gentleman was actively involved in getting this statute passed, just as every single campground owner in the state of Illinois, without exception, had a hand in it. Ha, right, and humbug.

But Ralph did not say that Craig Weber personally took any specific action to get IL to act on this. Ralph talked about the campground owners associations and did not state that Craig Weber was even a member of that organization (although some might say it was sort of implicit). Remember, Craig Weber said that he was not even in IL when the statute was passed and therefore absolved himself of all responsibility/involvement. And he may not have played any role whatever. But ,it was not until the CG owners association put some pressure to have the health statute applied to the Wal-Mart situation that any action was taken to prohibit overnighting at Wal-Mart. At least that is what is reported. As to whether Craig Weber is a member of that association or took an active part in the Il action has not been directly addressed — BOA#1252 FMCA#85268 GS#204497 Passport America RPI RVClub#R-Char-134 SKP#44893 SMART#7666 Thousand Trails/NACO

Response:

If this is really the case, then if I stop overnight in a rest area without camping facilities and sleep there, then the State of Illinois will be ticketed? or maybe the hwy department that built the facility? How about if I pull over into a park and ride lot along the freeway because I am dead tired and sleep a few hours. Who gets the ticket then? It seems ridiculous to ticket the landowner/leesee who may not be aware what is happening on that land. Now if Walmart puts up a sign suggesting you all camp for free, then they are aiding and abetting criminal activity…. I wonder if this applies to "camping" with lawn chairs set out and all, and maybe is selectively applied if a large group of RV’s gather the wagons in a Walmart parking lot creating a disturbance? snoring loudly?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since the State of Illinois passed the regulations which require all facilities that allow overnight parking of RVs to be licensed as a campground in 1972 I can’t imagine how you think I was involved. I was still in college then in Wisconsin. There is no law in Illinois stopping you from staying in a parking lot. Since Wal-Mart has informed the State of Illinois that they do not choose to be licensed as a campground then they must take action to prevent their parking lots from being used in that manner. Wal-Mart is the only one that will be ticketed or fined for operating a campground without a license not the RVer. It is fortunate that you do not have to business with the State of Illinois since they are the entity that disallowed camping in Wal-Mart or any other unlicensed facility. Don’t go to Nevada or New York or areas of Arizona or Florida because they laws also. Please don’t blame me for false stories you have heard. I have nothing to do with the State of Illinois Laws nor their enforcement. Thank for your time. Craig Weber, Owner, Geneseo Campground —–Original Message—– As a prospective owner of an RV, I will not do business with anyone involved with disallowing RV parking at Wal-Mart. Tom Fisher MD Dallas,TX

Response:

If everyone in the world accepted things as they are, there would have been no revolution, no USA, nor many other things. Failing to accept things the way they are is not a negative. It is, frequently, to be applauded. What this person is doing his way of trying to effect change. He is entitled and more power to him for the courage of his convictions.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip So, needless to say, I’m not ready to hang every Illinois campground owner like Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy, just because they chose to join an association that made a bad decision. — Gary Sanders I am. They don’t get my money until the law is changed. Even those who were not part of the problem had better become part of the solution if they want my money. Otherwise, they pay for attempting to benifit from being a member of the organization which caused the problem. Quite simple really. The bad decision must be changed. Lon, who realizes the cost of memberships and apathy. Lon, I somehow doubt the Illinois CG Association is staying up nights worrying about losing the $20 or whatever you spend nightly. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps people with your attitude might not be welcome in Illinois? Or anywhere? I seriously doubt if the few dollars you might spend is enough money to pay for the abuse these owners would have to put up with from people with your carved in stone mindset. For all you know, the gentleman in question may very well be trying to change things from within, yet you say he is "attempting to benefit" from membership in his organization. Point is, you don’t have any idea of what you’re talking about, but instead are dictating how things must be done, to a person who had no part, at all, in the Organization’s decisions. You absolutely have the right to disagree with their decision, but to tell the individual gentleman to shape up or else is pure, egotistical poppycock. Me, I’ll go where and when I want, accept things for what they are, and not deprive myself of enjoying the adventure because of actions over which I have no control. You sound very much like that guy from Las Vegas, who continually blasts the cg owners miles and miles from Kissimmee Florida as the cause of the WalMart ban there. He doesn’t know whether that’s so, just like you, but is so sensitive to the loss of his "rights" that he lashes out at all and sundry who may be involved, however remotely. Canoli, as ever was.

Response:

I agree,and accoding to several trade magazines this movement is catching on,BTW..Escapees has a copy of a letter and addresses that you can send to the appropriate people. http://www.escapees.com/website/hot/nowalmart.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip So, needless to say, I’m not ready to hang every Illinois campground owner like Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy, just because they chose to join an association that made a bad decision. — Gary Sanders I am. They don’t get my money until the law is changed. Even those who were not part of the problem had better become part of the solution if they want my money. Otherwise, they pay for attempting to benifit from being a member of the organization which caused the problem. Quite simple really. The bad decision must be changed. Lon, who realizes the cost of memberships and apathy.

Response:

Canoli, You seem to have me confused with someone who cares what you think. Lon, who doesn’t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lon, I somehow doubt the Illinois CG Association is staying up nights worrying about losing the $20 or whatever you spend nightly. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps people with your attitude might not be welcome in Illinois? Or anywhere? I seriously doubt if the few dollars you might spend is enough money to pay for the abuse these owners would have to put up with from people with your carved in stone mindset. For all you know, the gentleman in question may very well be trying to change things from within, yet you say he is "attempting to benefit" from membership in his organization. Point is, you don’t have any idea of what you’re talking about, but instead are dictating how things must be done, to a person who had no part, at all, in the Organization’s decisions. You absolutely have the right to disagree with their decision, but to tell the individual gentleman to shape up or else is pure, egotistical poppycock. Me, I’ll go where and when I want, accept things for what they are, and not deprive myself of enjoying the adventure because of actions over which I have no control. You sound very much like that guy from Las Vegas, who continually blasts the cg owners miles and miles from Kissimmee Florida as the cause of the WalMart ban there. He doesn’t know whether that’s so, just like you, but is so sensitive to the loss of his "rights" that he lashes out at all and sundry who may be involved, however remotely. Canoli, as ever was.

Response:

Rant and rave at the State and I stand with you; censure the CG Owners’ Association, and I absolutely agree their lobbying was an effort to ensure their own well-being; be upset that the Wal Mart option no longer exists and we are all losers; but blaming it all on this man because of his present affiliation makes no sense at all. Canoli

Response:

I did not at all read Ralph’s post as condemning the man–his thing about selling underwater bridges I clearly saw as directed at the CG owners organization, not Craig Weber. But I can understand different folks reading things in different ways. The main purpose of my first post on this matter was not to defend Ralph but to point out that we cannot afford to be jumping all over each other because one possible interpretation of what is said might be considered negative. The less we attack each other and the more we spend in understanding issues, seems the better off we are. — BOA#1252 FMCA#85268 GS#204497 Passport America RPI RVClub#R-Char-134 SKP#44893 SMART#7666 Thousand Trails/NACO

Response:

As to whether Craig Weber is a member of that association or took an active part in the Il action has not been directly addressed This is hair splitting of the first order: Ralph/Ellen’s caustic comments were directed equally to all cg owners throughout the state, and how could one not include Mr. Weber in that group? Your comments are also heavy on inuendo, with the "sort of implicit" suggestion that he was involved, because he is a member of the CG Owners’ Association.

If you read the sentence above your paragraph, it clearly says that the issue of whether he is even a member of the CG association has not been addressed–it is a totally unknown factor. No innuendo there. Stated very clearly that I have no idea whether he is a member of the association. Beyond that, even if he is, I have no idea if he was asked for his opinion or vote. Taking the matter to the state by the CG association under the health law could have been an action solely by their executive board. I don’t know and in no way implied anything. He very plainly stated he was not involved in the Wal Mart decision, and in fact was not even in the state when the prohibition was passed. Yet you continue to beat up on him for actions taken before he arrived.

He said and I repeated that he said that he was not even in IL in 1972 when the statute/legislation was passed. That is stipulated. His role in 1999 is completely unknown to me. I am not at all bashful about saying what is on my mind. I do not need to nor do I resort to "hair splitting" or innuendo. I will clearly speak my mind and no one will have to figure out what I mean unless my poor grammar gets in the way. But you first call Ralph some sort of lowlife scum and then turn around and do the same to me. I thought we were trying to understand issues as relates to RVing, not calling people down because you happen to disagree with them. BTW, whatever the facts in this whole thing, if an association or group of CG owners caused the State of IL to take this action, I hope that in the colder months, when the CG owners do not find it profitable to keep their CGs open that they will be forced to keep them open by some other law. If RVers traveling through IL cannot stay at Wal-Mart to sleep, seems like CGs should be forced to be open to accommodate them. — BOA#1252 FMCA#85268 GS#204497 Passport America RPI RVClub#R-Char-134 SKP#44893 SMART#7666 Thousand Trails/NACO

Response:

But you first call Ralph some sort of lowlife scum and then turn around and do the same to me. I thought we were trying to understand issues as relates to RVing, not calling people down because you happen to disagree with them.

Like you, I call ‘em as I see ‘em. My disagreement is with the implication that a present member of the CG association, who was not on the scene when the legislation was passed, is now tarred with the same brush that is being applied to the entire membership. No matter how you slice it, you both use faint inuendo to imply that, somehow, the Wal Mart situation is this gentleman’s fault, because he is now a member of his Association, and that is not so. That is the end-all and be-all of my POV; that the man is being blamed for something that he had nothing to do with. Your pique at the State’s actions is understandable, and your criticisms commendable, but you are firing at the wrong person when you single out this gentleman. Your anger at the State should realistically be taken up in a different arena, rather than jumping on some one who is trying to explain his position. Rant and rave at the State and I stand with you; censure the CG Owners’ Association, and I absolutely agree their lobbying was an effort to ensure their own well-being; be upset that the Wal Mart option no longer exists and we are all losers; but blaming it all on this man because of his present affiliation makes no sense at all. Canoli

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to give you credit, Ralph/Ellen: it takes a certain flair to call someone a liar, without having the balls to come right out and say it. You, of course, know for a certainty that this gentleman was actively involved in getting this statute passed, just as every single campground owner in the state of Illinois, without exception, had a hand in it. Ha, right, and humbug. But Ralph did not say that Craig Weber personally took any specific action to get IL to act on this. Ralph talked about the campground owners associations and did not state that Craig Weber was even a member of that organization (although some might say it was sort of implicit). Remember, Craig Weber said that he was not even in IL when the statute was passed and therefore absolved himself of all responsibility/involvement. And he may not have played any role whatever. But ,it was not until the CG owners association put some pressure to have the health statute applied to the Wal-Mart situation that any action was taken to prohibit overnighting at Wal-Mart. At least that is what is reported. As to whether Craig Weber is a member of that association or took an active part in the Il action has not been directly addressed

This is hair splitting of the first order: Ralph/Ellen’s caustic comments were directed equally to all cg owners throughout the state, and how could one not include Mr. Weber in that group? Your comments are also heavy on inuendo, with the "sort of implicit" suggestion that he was involved, because he is a member of the CG Owners’ Association. He very plainly stated he was not involved in the Wal Mart decision, and in fact was not even in the state when the prohibition was passed. Yet you continue to beat up on him for actions taken before he arrived. A pox on both your houses. Canoli

Response:

Since the State of Illinois passed the regulations which require all facilities that allow overnight parking of RVs to be licensed as a campground in 1972 I can’t imagine how you think I was involved. I was still in college then in Wisconsin. There is no law in Illinois stopping you from staying in a parking lot. Since Wal-Mart has informed the State of Illinois that they do not choose to be licensed as a campground then they must take action to prevent their parking lots from being used in that manner. Wal-Mart is the only one that will be ticketed or fined for operating a campground without a license not the RVer. It is fortunate that you do not have to business with the State of Illinois since they are the entity that disallowed camping in Wal-Mart or any other unlicensed facility. Don’t go to Nevada or New York or areas of Arizona or Florida because they laws also. Please don’t blame me for false stories you have heard. I have nothing to do with the State of Illinois Laws nor their enforcement. Thank for your time. Craig Weber, Owner, Geneseo Campground – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - —–Original Message—– As a prospective owner of an RV, I will not do business with anyone involved with disallowing RV parking at Wal-Mart. Tom Fisher MD Dallas,TX

Response:

Is he saying that -only- Wal-Mart will be ticketed? Sounds like grounds for a law-suit to me. It is fortunate that you do not have to business with the State of Illinois since they are the entity that disallowed camping in Wal-Mart or any other unlicensed facility. Don’t go to Nevada or New York or areas of Arizona or Florida because they laws also. Please don’t blame me for false stories you have heard. I have nothing to do with the State of Illinois Laws nor their enforcement.

Of course the State of Illinois just decided to do this, with no input/requests from Campground owers, ha, right, if you believe that I have several bridges for sale (one on the bottom of Lake Washington, one on the bottom of Hood Canel and one on the bottom of the Tacoma narrows, we lose a lot of bridges around here) — RV and Camping FAQ http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/rv If Windows is the answer I would really like to know what the question is

Response:

Filed under: Lobbying

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