AOPA Whacked

Question:

I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational.

I don’t see how you conclude "*more* interested". Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name.

W/o flight schools, there will be no more pilots. So it may be only a long term issue, but AOPA needs flight schools. Despite being a long term issue, it needs a quick fix. Otherwise, some nontrivial number will simply die. That will have an impact upon airports, reducing the pressure to keep some of them open. It’s a nasty slope down which AOPA is facing. What do they expect us to do here in Phoenix? Have IFR pilots shuttle our aircraft to CasaGrande so we can fly?…. I know…. get an IFR rating!

AOPA has also been working on procedures for "trapped" aircraft, which would address your problem. I know that at least a few owners here (under the Newark class B shelf) are considering moving airplanes. It would require an IFR pilot, or a CFII, but – for most of the airports here, at least – this is possible. Even some of those w/in the 25 mile radius of JFK have scheduled windows for part 91 (IFR) departures. What about that possibility? Have you a place outside of the "enhanced class B" where you can (temporarily, with luck) base your plane? Of course, not knowing the timetable for VFR flight w/in the "enhanced class B" makes this frustrating. How annoying it would be to go through this process, only to see VFR flight permitted just as you were locking the plane down in the new location. – Andrew

Response:

Patrick, We all share your frustration, but lets stick together and support AOPA. I too have been effected by the ongoing restrictions and we certainly need to have the ban on VFR-under-Class B-lifted ASAP, but I’m confident that AOPA is working diligently on our behalf to acheieve that, as well and lifting the ban on flight instruction. We need ALL the restrictions lifted – the GA business depends on it. The "IFR guys" are with us VFR pilots, and those of us with our tickets already need to stand with the flight schools. We all need to help out the FBOs that have been suffering and who are failing in growing numbers every day. There are lots of good reasons, but most of all I think we just need to stick together! -David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is AOPA Whacked or What? I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational. Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name. What do they expect us to do here in Phoenix? Have IFR pilots shuttle our aircraft to CasaGrande so we can fly?…. I know…. get an IFR rating! -Patrick Grundmeier-

Response:

Well, my flight school has 10 planes, all essentially grounded since there’s not a lot of training we can do… But that doesn’t stop the phone bills, the electric bills, the insurance bills (about $5K/month) on those non-flying airplanes from coming in… Another week or so of this and we’re chapter 11…. We’re not the only one in this boat either…. Oh and by the way, my club has 3 planes parked under the NY class B which we’re trying to get out… Stop whining John Price CFII/AGI/IGI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is AOPA Whacked or What? I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational. Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name. What do they expect us to do here in Phoenix? Have IFR pilots shuttle our aircraft to CasaGrande so we can fly?…. I know…. get an IFR rating! -Patrick Grundmeier-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is AOPA Whacked or What? I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational. Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name. In case you hadn’t noticed, flight instructors are pilots too. AOPA is doing a sterling job in representing us. I too have a VFR-only aircraft trapped in the "enhanced" Class B. AOPA say on their website that they are specifically addressing this issue, as well as flight training. — Dylan Smith, Houston, TX Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

I agree. While I am also a new private pilot, back in April I was simply a student PILOT. The airport I trained at (as well as several others) lies under IAH class B. I can think of a fairly good sized list of VFR only and student pilots trapped at EYQ (and IWS, and SGR, and DWH, etc….) and A/C sitting idle. — Sloan Essman http://home.houston.rr.com/essman/sloan "Man’s flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge."

Response:

I appreciate what AOPA did to get the VFR flying again. They earned my dues and allegiance. David Grah Cessna 170A Libelle Glider

Response:

Hey Dylan, I hear ya. My 170 is over in San Angelo, I’ve been trying to get it back to Hooks. At least now I can get it back near Houston. Will temporarily fly it in to Sport Flyers out in Brookshire. They are just outside the Houston Class B. It’s made me think about what it would take to bring my 170 up to IFR capable. rgds, Gary

Response:

I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational. Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name.

First, AOPA lobbies for all of General Aviation, not just the private owner. Second, given that while flight training facilities are still grounded, aircraft owners now may go bore holes in the sky to their heart’s content (as long as they stay out of Enhanced Class B), I’m not sure I understand your claim that AOPA puts the needs of training facilities above those of owners? AOPA has done a *wonderful* job handling this whole mess, and while I’ve always felt that I’ve gotten my $39 worth (or whatever the dues were before that), I definitely feel like I’ve gotten my money’s worth this year. When AOPA comes out and says "okay, everyone but those stuck in the Enhanced Class B is now flying, including flight schools; we’re done, and you guys in the E. Class B can fend for yourselves", then I think you’ll have something to complain about. Until then, I fail to see what your point is. Pete

Response:

I too am in Phoenix but while not an owner, I want to get back up. My question is…. Why does the NSA, FAA etc think that by having ‘enhanced’ class B airspace would stop a ‘terrorist’ from flying into it anyway, something tells me that any terrorist doesn’t care about the rules anyway !. Of course there is no old ‘we can intercept them with our F-16’s ‘ - thats assuming that you have some in the air already and how long, even in a C150, would it take to cross the Mode C veil and enter the ‘enhanced Class B’ and attack the underlying airport 15 miles from the veil.. Not long !!! Wake up and smell the coffee… terrorists don’t play by, or care about rules !!! AOPA reminds me of a trade union, quick to take your money but when you WANT help, they don’t want to know you. There is NO reason for Enhanced Class B airspace – period. This has nothing to do with national security , this is only a bunch of headless chickens running about Washington trying to figure out how they can appear to be doing something after the fact. The horse is long gone, bolting the stable door now is a bit too late. P.

Response:

Agreed. I feel I’ve gotten my $39 worth. Hell, the stickers and magazine for a year alone are worth $39 bucks…. Let’s imagine for a moment that AOPA and EAA closed their doors and disappeared. How long do you think it would be before the "little guy" got shoved out of the "aviating for fun" business? Bela P. Havasreti – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational. Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name. First, AOPA lobbies for all of General Aviation, not just the private owner. Second, given that while flight training facilities are still grounded, aircraft owners now may go bore holes in the sky to their heart’s content (as long as they stay out of Enhanced Class B), I’m not sure I understand your claim that AOPA puts the needs of training facilities above those of owners? AOPA has done a *wonderful* job handling this whole mess, and while I’ve always felt that I’ve gotten my $39 worth (or whatever the dues were before that), I definitely feel like I’ve gotten my money’s worth this year. When AOPA comes out and says "okay, everyone but those stuck in the Enhanced Class B is now flying, including flight schools; we’re done, and you guys in the E. Class B can fend for yourselves", then I think you’ll have something to complain about. Until then, I fail to see what your point is. Pete

Response:

Can’t you read? If it wasn’t for AOPA, all of us would still be sitting on the ground, IFR or VFR. I suggest you read the AOPA website more closely – I think they’re doing an outstanding job! Patrick

Response:

Is AOPA Whacked or What?

While I was initially appalled at AOPA’s lack of initiative with the media, they appear to be getting results — albeit slowly, for sure. I’ve been more impressed with their membership staff. I have received no less than three personal emails from their staff, in response to my frustrated outpouring of dismay at being grounded. I wish they had put the same emphasis on getting Boyer on CNN, MSNBC, etc. I think the initial response was slow. The jury is still out on their performance, as far as I’m concerned. We’ll have to assess it when the dust clears. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

If you have paid attention at all to the manner in which operations HAVE been authorized, you would have noticed a common thread: Discrete ID codes and IFR flight plans (which mean radio contact and positive control). The purpose of the enhanced Class B is to ensure that the terminal areas remain under that plan of operations while they permit Joe Q Spamcan to fly all he wants out over a cow pasture 50 miles from nowhere. If they cant ID you or talk to you before you get to the terminal area, they will have a welcoming party waiting for you. I dont expect the E-Class B to disappear anytime soon, and when VFR resumes within it, it will be under positive control, just like in real Class B. Expect to have to be cleared out of your little airport "under the shelf" and head out on a direct heading out of the E-Class B. Expect to have to get a code and heading by phone or RCO before you run up at your little grass strip in the shadow of the big city. There’s a reason alright… you just have to look at the big picture (beyond part 91 VFR) to see it. Dave.. P.S. I hope Dylan gets his C-140 up soon.

Response:

No. IMNSHO, Phil Boyer and AOPA have been doing fine work lobbying in "my" behalf. Granted I’m lucky, my airplane is at an airport outside of the Class B stockade. Focusing on the resumption of flight training is the highest priority now because without flight training income those flight schools, AKA FBOs, will soon start their own industry layoffs and probably aren’t far from having to shut down completely. Once your local FBO is gone who will perform maintenance on your aircraft? Where will you keep it hangered? How will you get a BFR? Of course everyone has their own personal priority. I think we should look at how to support our FBOs so that they are still around 30 or 60 days from now. Somehow I don’t believe that they will be included in the massive airline industry bail-out. Dogs can fly. http://www.flyingmutts.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is AOPA Whacked or What?

Response:

No. IMNSHO, Phil Boyer and AOPA have been doing fine work lobbying in "my" behalf. Granted I’m lucky, my airplane is at an airport outside of the Class B stockade.

In addition, they have been very patient with membership banging on the doors, phones, and e-mail boxes and have moved to do the best they can with all of the membership descending at once on them. My hats off to the entire bunch especially Kathy Dondzila who has answered countless e-mails from me in the past two weeks. Some day after I can get my plane liberated from the DC TFR area, I’m going to have to fly up to FDK and express my gratitude in person.

Response:

Is AOPA Whacked or What? I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational. Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name. What do they expect us to do here in Phoenix? Have IFR pilots shuttle our aircraft to CasaGrande so we can fly?…. I know…. get an IFR rating! -Patrick Grundmeier-

Response:

In case you hadn’t noticed, flight instructors are pilots too. AOPA is doing a sterling job in representing us. I too have a VFR-only aircraft trapped in the "enhanced" Class B. AOPA say on their website that they are specifically addressing this issue, as well as flight training. — Dylan Smith, Houston, TX Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Response:

Is AOPA Whacked or What? I’m not quite sure I understand AOPA. They have been trying to get VFR operation resumed, but they seem more interested in getting flight schools back operational. Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name. In case you hadn’t noticed, flight instructors are pilots too.

Also those of us who are pilots and owners need to have flight instruction as well.

Response:

Where is there loyalty, with pilots who have planes based in ehanced class B airspace, or GA training facilities? AOPA…. Aircraft owners and Pilots Association…. I don’t see flight school in the name

Flight schools are "owners"

Response:

What about the fact that you fly for fun, these flight schools are a way of living for the owners and CFIs. Not to mention I would really like to finnish my IFR rating but I need instruction to do that. — Thanks, Zach Rogers ASEL Private Pilot (Instrument student) 138.8 hours http://thenewfsworld.hypermart.net

Response:

CFI’s are pilots, and many of them are AOPA members. And many flight schools own aircraft. What’s the problem? . What do they expect us to do here in Phoenix? Have IFR pilots shuttle our aircraft to CasaGrande so we can fly?…. I know…. get an IFR rating!

The AOPA is not responsible for the current restrictions. They are, as are other groups such as the EAA, trying to acheive workable solutions and clarification of issues, which is to the benefit of all. From the AOPA website, currently: "AOPA’s top priorities now are to get relief for VFR pilots whose aircraft are trapped on the ground inside enhanced Class B airspace and to get approval for the resumption of at least some flight training activities. "AOPA’s airports staff has determined that there are some 41,800 general aviation aircraft based on 282 airports inside the 30 enhanced Class B airspace areas. Those aircraft would normally account for some 21 million operations a year. There are also numerous transient aircraft also "trapped" at these airports, unable to fly home VFR." This seems a reasonable objective, and a valuable service, it seems to me. They also are seeking clarification on, among other things, precisely what is the full meaning of the ban on VFR flight training. As well as trying to get it reinstated. "AOPA is now working to get approval for the resumption of flight training." The ban on VFR flight training, has a broader impact than being ‘more interested in getting flight schools back operational’. The ban potentially affects all pilots, not just students, and not just flight schools – it precludes for example, VFR ’flight reviews’, interfering with some certificated pilots from being able to regain flight status, for instance, and I’m told is interpreted (wrongly I think), by many ATC units as prohibiting pattern work, touch and goes and the like, which for another instance, can interfere with others in maintaining currency and recency. I’d not slam AOPA for any of this. Whether there are ears that hear, they are at least a voice that speaks for us. Regards

Response:

Filed under: Lobbying

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AOPA Whacked

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