And now the US FedGov idiots are let the Hubble die!

Question:

BadLander stated: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Contrary to popular belief — even in the U.S. — our government was never intended to be a democracy. It is a republic. — John Miller And now it’s a Plutocratical Oligarchy in a guise of a Democratic Republic.

Assuming you are including all those ultra-wealthy lobbyists, the majority multi-millionare congress reps and senators, yes, I guess you are very much correct. And also the fact that the reps never really listen or ask what the voter desires or thinks, unless it is directly along party lines, yep you are ever so correct. Of course, throw in those secret societys, and it is even more so.

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Lon VanOstran stated: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes I know the shuttle is going to the stud farm, to slowly graze the rust pasture, but why let such a wonderful instrument die, while there is not a replacement? Idiot, Do your homework. There is a replacement scheduled for 2011, only 3 years after Hubble is expected to crash land on Earth. Instead of bitching, why don’t you work _with_ the system and encourage your representatives to see that it is funded? Is this idiot Cass reincarnated? Lon

Lon, I believe YOU need to do some homework and think a bit and remember back how NASA delays many missions etc. "Hubble’s planned replacement, the James Webb Space Telescope, is not due to be launched until 2011 at the earliest." Can you understand the ‘earliest’ part of that statement? Imagine you doing without your RV for 3+ years, now think about the possible ‘missed’ science? Lon, here you go, stick some new info into that brain: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994576 And then ponder the ifs and maybes and what ifs! Balance that with the incredible NEW science info that just might be gleaned from the new instruments (do you know what a ‘wider-spectrum’ implies?) Do you know how little usability a non-stable telescope (already 2 gyros are down) is? Can you see that a single mission is a much smaller investment (if safe) than ONLY a possible replacement 3+ years later? (do you buy a new RV when your furnace breaks?) Now, do you still think it the best decision? It is certainly not the only decision and I bet NASA might could fix the insulation problem (go back to the previous non-environmental non-problematic formula) and service the hubble one last time (who knows maybe more trips in the future- another discussion). BTW, thanks Lon for not being a decision maker in my life and others, you flunk!!

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John Miller stated: In an almost-but-not-quite-entirely off-topic post, the pseudonymynous Eric <snip The Hubble is about the same size as a large RV — I guess that’s the connection.

The other is, an instrument to see the wonders and explore, just like an RV, and of course, a statement on the stupidity and short-sightedness of the FedGov and it lamebrain decisions! (my non-partisan view BTW)

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snipped There are a few Model T’s still running out there. You have to admit that some of the old trucks built in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s are still built tougher than most of what’s out there today!

Nah, don’t agree with that statement. Old isn’t better or tougher. I’d stack the current offerings by all three truck builders against anything built in the 50s. A 50 xxxx brand pickup will be burning oil by 75,000 miles and the front end will have been rebuilt several times, springs will have had leaves replaced and clutches will have been replaced. JMHO HD in FL

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Eric is studying for the last angry man part. LZ

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Lon VanOstran stated: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – REPUBLIC…..A constitutional form of government, esp. A democratic one. Sounds like we are a democratic republic…..we elect the reps and they make the decisions based on their experience, wisdom and a whole bunch of lobbying from special interest groups. I much prefer Constitutionally _limited_ Republic. Our Constitutions _limits_ the powers those representatives can wield, though it really isn’t worth the paper it is written upon since most haven’t even read it, and wouldn’t wish to have it enforced if they did. Lon

Me too, but look at how the constitution is interpreted, they use it for their desires, but then use it to prevent those things many of us want, not that they are necessarily interpreting it correctly they just thump it to their desires. An example is term limits. If term limits are constitutional for governors, and the presidency, why not valid for senators and house members? (and don’t bring up the election process, we all know that an incumbent has so much more electable presense than does a new person)

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Why not go try to release it to public Domain or sell it? Why not try anything but just disposing of it?

Why not extend the life of the hubble and hell, have a couple of very capable telescopes, or have at least one that works! Why not bring back the Model T? Lon

Why not go try to release it to public Domain or sell it? Why not try anything but just disposing of it? How much did it cost to get it up there? Why not let our schools and or the world’s schools use it? I’d pay something to keep it going! Why not let the people who paid for it determine what to do with it? What about the next scope that is coming in 2011? Will it be disposible too? Why? There are a few Model T’s still running out there. You have to admit that some of the old trucks built in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s are still built tougher than most of what’s out there today!

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What a stupid decision!

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994576 Regards, John Kinney

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Contrary to popular belief — even in the U.S. — our government was never intended to be a democracy. It is a republic. — John Miller

And now it’s a Plutocratical Oligarchy in a guise of a Democratic Republic.

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John Miller stated: Yet another testement that the US is NOT a democracy but a federation with ‘represetative’ NOT democratic rule! Contrary to popular belief — even in the U.S. — our government was never intended to be a democracy. It is a republic.

That’s partly what the Iraqi’s are complaining about, they want a true open election, but it serves the purpose of the most populous tribe (shiites I believe) who would be guarantteed a win, and thus would begin more civil wars. They really need a fair secular government, but the religious will not ever see that as good enough.

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Traveler stated: DEMOCRACY…Government by the people, exercised either directly OR through elected representatives. REPUBLIC…..A constitutional form of government, esp. A democratic one.

Actually, you are looking at a modern definition of the word. Go look at the definition earlier, say in the 1950 or so, it was almost akin to socialism and implied it was a contemptuous form of government, I suppose approx. Marxism or such. It is just *convenient* to put the *representative* part in and less necessary today as was even 50 years ago. Communication is much better today, and of course back in the 1700’s representative is the only real possibility, not so today, yet it seems most do not desire more *hands on*, I guess it is just me and Eric that feel this way. I also say it is a definition of convenience, since those in government think you and I can not decide for ourselves. A very insulting situation for many of us, and was mentioned by another, most governments love it when people put their blind trust in them, and not desire to make decisions for themselves. Its our own fault this has happened, we keep letting others decide for us, Calif. at least has the fortitude to have propositions that at least start to give the people a little say so on important issues. Most states seem not to use this apparatus, most should use it more, me thinks. Sounds like we are a democratic republic…..we elect the reps and they make the decisions based on their experience, wisdom and a whole bunch of lobbying from special interest groups.

Some of those representatives have little if any more experience than you and I, look at John Ewards, 1st term senator, and from what I hear, not a terribly effective one, and a very absent one as well. But you are correct about the lobbyist, especially those from prev. administrations, such as clinton admins who are now lobbyists, they still have lots of connections and can disproportionally influence, pretty disgusting to me.

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Just remove "experience" and "wisdom" from your description and you will be on the right track. TS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DEMOCRACY…Government by the people, exercised either directly OR through elected representatives. REPUBLIC…..A constitutional form of government, esp. A democratic one. Sounds like we are a democratic republic…..we elect the reps and they make the decisions based on their experience, wisdom and a whole bunch of lobbying from special interest groups. Not Me stated: Cartoonist on Bush’s mars program. http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushLightyear/main.asp It’s funny that a diehard republican ‘mantra’ is always ’smaller government!’, but that NEVER happens or has happened, look at the fiasco budget and deficit we now have!! Now Bush wants (as much as I would love to see this) to spend gobs toward ‘manned’ space exploration at the inevitable sacrifice of those capable and much cheaper ‘robotic’ missions which have gleaned so much wonderful scientific info! I suspect this will cause lots of programs to fail or be scrubbed if emphasis is put toward the manned part, which of course it has to eventually. Scientificly, there is not much reason for manned programs, as romantic a thought it is, when robotic programs have and should explore those areas that are too dangerous and what area is not dangerous in space. This hubble death sentence is the price of Bush wanting to impress someone or is this ‘legacy’ building like Clinton tried with his peace initiative? Yet another testement that the US is NOT a democracy but a federation with ‘represetative’ NOT democratic rule! Its called the ‘100 ft stick’ self governing, except there is little ’self’ there.

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Why not extend the life of the hubble and hell, have a couple of very capable telescopes, or have at least one that works!

Why not bring back the Model T? Lon

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Governments just love people who never question their antics!

If you accuse _me_ of that, then you are too damn stupid to carry on a discussion. Lon, who just stopped reading your nonsense.

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DEMOCRACY…Government by the people, exercised either directly OR through elected representatives. REPUBLIC…..A constitutional form of government, esp. A democratic one. Sounds like we are a democratic republic…..we elect the reps and they make the decisions based on their experience, wisdom and a whole bunch of lobbying from special interest groups.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not Me stated: Cartoonist on Bush’s mars program. http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushLightyear/main.asp It’s funny that a diehard republican ‘mantra’ is always ’smaller government!’, but that NEVER happens or has happened, look at the fiasco budget and deficit we now have!! Now Bush wants (as much as I would love to see this) to spend gobs toward ‘manned’ space exploration at the inevitable sacrifice of those capable and much cheaper ‘robotic’ missions which have gleaned so much wonderful scientific info! I suspect this will cause lots of programs to fail or be scrubbed if emphasis is put toward the manned part, which of course it has to eventually. Scientificly, there is not much reason for manned programs, as romantic a thought it is, when robotic programs have and should explore those areas that are too dangerous and what area is not dangerous in space. This hubble death sentence is the price of Bush wanting to impress someone or is this ‘legacy’ building like Clinton tried with his peace initiative? Yet another testement that the US is NOT a democracy but a federation with ‘represetative’ NOT democratic rule! Its called the ‘100 ft stick’ self governing, except there is little ’self’ there.

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Yet another testement that the US is NOT a democracy but a federation with ‘represetative’ NOT democratic rule!

Contrary to popular belief — even in the U.S. — our government was never intended to be a democracy. It is a republic. — John Miller My email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm Dow’s Law: In a hierarchical organization, the higher the level, the greater the confusion.

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writes: REPUBLIC…..A constitutional form of government, esp. A democratic one. Sounds like we are a democratic republic…..we elect the reps and they make the decisions based on their experience, wisdom and a whole bunch of lobbying from special interest groups.

I much prefer Constitutionally _limited_ Republic. Our Constitutions _limits_ the powers those representatives can wield, though it really isn’t worth the paper it is written upon since most haven’t even read it, and wouldn’t wish to have it enforced if they did. Lon

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What a stupid decision! Yes I know the shuttle is going to the stud farm, to slowly graze the rust pasture, but why let such a wonderful instrument die, while there is not a replacement? I would imagine that the ‘non-US world’ could be convinced to pony up the money to keep it alive, but NASA’s bone head leadership does not see that as a possible. Such a short-term view of the science gleaned by the hubble, the most wonderful astronomy tool ever devised!! Now a 10 mile mirror on the back side of the moon would be a wonderful project, but that will never happen!

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What a stupid decision! Yes I know the shuttle is going to the stud farm, to slowly graze the rust pasture, but why let such a wonderful instrument die, while there is not a replacement?

The infra-red scope is already in place and another scope is scheduled for launch later this year. I would imagine that the ‘non-US world’ could be convinced to pony up the money to keep it alive, but NASA’s bone head leadership does not see that as a possible.

They really haven’t found any $300 million per year contributors, assuming the shuttle keeps flying, which it won’t. Better minds than yours have worked all the angles. Such a short-term view of the science gleaned by the hubble, the most wonderful astronomy tool ever devised!!

And it’ll keep working for another 3-5 years which is longer than its design life. Marv

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Yes I know the shuttle is going to the stud farm, to slowly graze the rust pasture, but why let such a wonderful instrument die, while there is not a replacement?

Idiot, Do your homework. There is a replacement scheduled for 2011, only 3 years after Hubble is expected to crash land on Earth. Instead of bitching, why don’t you work _with_ the system and encourage your representatives to see that it is funded? Is this idiot Cass reincarnated? Lon

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In an almost-but-not-quite-entirely off-topic post, the pseudonymynous Eric <snip

The Hubble is about the same size as a large RV — I guess that’s the connection. — John Miller My email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm Kissing a fish is like smoking a bicycle.

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Cartoonist on Bush’s mars program. http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushLightyear/main.asp

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Idiot, maybe, Cass, not! Do you realize the science that has been furthered by the hubble, just in the past few years (with newer instruments)? Things seen that were NEVER thought possible. In combination with other telescopes/instruments, the theory of what all this is has been revamped! Do you know that there will be a replacement, that is equal or better, remember how long the hubble took to get in orbit, why did it not get into orbit, launcher problems, and then due to the stupid military secrecy, NASA turned down testing the mirror and you saw what we got, the most perfectly created mirror, just ground to the wrong curve? Why not extend the life of the hubble and hell, have a couple of very capable telescopes, or have at least one that works! There was to be a ‘freshning’ of the instruments, I believe in 2005 or 6, that would have extended its life that much longer, but the myopic and very unlikely to ever be fulfilled, moon/mars Bush plan, will never occur. You people get me, you really do think that the FedGov and such are always correct, there is never a better or wiser way or decision, my you remind me of… I’ll be kind and not say what I really think. Governments just love people who never question their antics! WOW!

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Will Sill stated: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this idiot Cass reincarnated? Or Deano or Hogland or Indianaradio? Hard to tell – but it is discouraging to see how many seriously ignorant people manage to be able to sspell out a few paragraphs on the internet! Will Sill In the US, anyone can express a point of view. Sadly, there is no requirement that views be informed, honest, useful or even logical. If there was, most Democrats would be silenced.

Of some that can’t spell —^ And why not adhere to your signature, you response was as close to worthless as I have ever seen!

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Not Me stated: Cartoonist on Bush’s mars program. http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushLightyear/main.asp

It’s funny that a diehard republican ‘mantra’ is always ’smaller government!’, but that NEVER happens or has happened, look at the fiasco budget and deficit we now have!! Now Bush wants (as much as I would love to see this) to spend gobs toward ‘manned’ space exploration at the inevitable sacrifice of those capable and much cheaper ‘robotic’ missions which have gleaned so much wonderful scientific info! I suspect this will cause lots of programs to fail or be scrubbed if emphasis is put toward the manned part, which of course it has to eventually. Scientificly, there is not much reason for manned programs, as romantic a thought it is, when robotic programs have and should explore those areas that are too dangerous and what area is not dangerous in space. This hubble death sentence is the price of Bush wanting to impress someone or is this ‘legacy’ building like Clinton tried with his peace initiative? Yet another testement that the US is NOT a democracy but a federation with ‘represetative’ NOT democratic rule! Its called the ‘100 ft stick’ self governing, except there is little ’self’ there.

Response:

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