Quantum mechanics and historical inevitability

Question:

Stagnant or reduced productivity, high oil prices, competition from Southeast Asia, etc.

Response:

ilya, i promise i willr ead more carefullty your post. at any rate, i believe you are not the only one to have thought such thoughts

Response:

<ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1108171133.580006.162990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… <snip> > In my meditations in spring 2000, I discovered something very similar. > Every time I apprehended and verbalized a pattern in the consciousness > of another person or in the cultural consciousness, it ceased to exist. > This leads me to believe that the forces at work are the same in both > cases: That whatever the source of patterns, demands absolute freedom, > and any time it is apprehended the source has to change forms in order > to remain in existence.

<snip> > Ilya Shambat.

For about 2 years, I constantly recognized well-shaped patterns of behavior around and about me. Whenever I would point it out to its bearers or express about it in relevant places, it would disappear,change its form or remain the same. In all cases I’ve got rejection that they ever existed. Which made me to come to a conclusion, that there is a centralized direction by which patterns flow in real life and they can be changed, but direction hardly. I’ll be happy if life prove me wrong. Regards, Araik Margarian. — Regards, Araik Margarian.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sick Mind wrote: > <ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com> wrote > > Sick Mind wrote: > >> The relationship between inflation and unemployment has not > >> changed at all. > > No, it became complicated by structural economic change. This was as > > true for high-inflation, high-unemployment 70s (structural problems > > causing both) > Aside from cars that got better gas mileage what structural changes > would those be? > > as it was for low-inflation, low-unemployment 80s and 90s > > (structural improvements causing both). > > Before that, in 1960s, there was a very neat correlation: The higher > > the inflation, the less the unemployment. What happened in 1970s was > > that the whole system went out of control and had to be reined in using > > quite harsh methods in early 80s. > >> You forgot the essential part of most mathematical models, "other > >> factors being insignificant." No one ever said that unemployment was > >> solely > >> determined by inflation. They said inflation was a factor, but there > >> are > >> other factors. The "other factors" in the 70s were from an oil > >> crisis. It > >> was a serious problem that increased both unemployment and inflation. > >> Even > >> during that crisis had the inflation been lower than it was the > >> unemployment > >> would have been higher than it was in accordance with the formula. > > As I said: Yes, there was structural problem that increased both > > inflation and unemployment. And while there is still inverse > > correlation, the new variables, just as you said, first increased and > > then decreased both. > > Which offset the nearly precise curve it was in the 60s as, like you > > said, the new variables were introduced. > >> Inflating the currency still can temporarily reduce > >> unemployment. The > >> time limit is from the other factors that come into play as the > >> economy eventually collapses. > > Exactly. Inflated, corrupt and short-sighted is no way to run the > > economy. Anymore than fat, drunk and stupid is way to go through life. > >> You are no scientist Shambat. You can’t even identify dependent > >> and independent variables or external factors. > > I know all about scientific method that you know. The difference > > between me and you is that I also know a lot of things that science > > can’t neatly measure, > > and my worldview is more informed. > > Ilya Shambat. > You aren’t much of a debater either. > — > Sick Mind > borod…@att.net

except… a master debater? (couldn’t resist…) H

Response:

<ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com> wrote > Sick Mind wrote: >> The relationship between inflation and unemployment has not >> changed at all. > No, it became complicated by structural economic change. This was as > true for high-inflation, high-unemployment 70s (structural problems > causing both)

Aside from cars that got better gas mileage what structural changes would those be? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> as it was for low-inflation, low-unemployment 80s and 90s > (structural improvements causing both). > Before that, in 1960s, there was a very neat correlation: The higher > the inflation, the less the unemployment. What happened in 1970s was > that the whole system went out of control and had to be reined in using > quite harsh methods in early 80s. >> You forgot the essential part of most mathematical models, "other >> factors being insignificant." No one ever said that unemployment was >> solely >> determined by inflation. They said inflation was a factor, but there >> are >> other factors. The "other factors" in the 70s were from an oil >> crisis. It >> was a serious problem that increased both unemployment and inflation. >> Even >> during that crisis had the inflation been lower than it was the >> unemployment >> would have been higher than it was in accordance with the formula. > As I said: Yes, there was structural problem that increased both > inflation and unemployment. And while there is still inverse > correlation, the new variables, just as you said, first increased and > then decreased both. > Which offset the nearly precise curve it was in the 60s as, like you > said, the new variables were introduced. >> Inflating the currency still can temporarily reduce >> unemployment. The >> time limit is from the other factors that come into play as the >> economy eventually collapses. > Exactly. Inflated, corrupt and short-sighted is no way to run the > economy. Anymore than fat, drunk and stupid is way to go through life. >> You are no scientist Shambat. You can’t even identify dependent >> and independent variables or external factors. > I know all about scientific method that you know. The difference > between me and you is that I also know a lot of things that science > can’t neatly measure, > and my worldview is more informed. > Ilya Shambat.

You aren’t much of a debater either. — Sick Mind borod…@att.net

Response:

In news:NiiPd.196646$w62.147898@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, Sick Mind <borod…@worldnet.att.net> wrote : > Frankly Ilya, you are trying to appear scientific and spiritual, > but to real scientists and religious you are clearly neither. You > are just an evil troll, a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

I think he’s fooled by his high self-esteem. Sometimes he says interesting things, though.

Response:

Sick Mind wrote: > The relationship between inflation and unemployment has not changed at > all.

No, it became complicated by structural economic change. This was as true for high-inflation, high-unemployment 70s (structural problems causing both) as it was for low-inflation, low-unemployment 80s and 90s (structural improvements causing both). Before that, in 1960s, there was a very neat correlation: The higher the inflation, the less the unemployment. What happened in 1970s was that the whole system went out of control and had to be reined in using quite harsh methods in early 80s. > You forgot the essential part of most mathematical models, "other > factors being insignificant." No one ever said that unemployment was solely > determined by inflation. They said inflation was a factor, but there are > other factors. The "other factors" in the 70s were from an oil crisis. It > was a serious problem that increased both unemployment and inflation. Even > during that crisis had the inflation been lower than it was the unemployment > would have been higher than it was in accordance with the formula.

As I said: Yes, there was structural problem that increased both inflation and unemployment. And while there is still inverse correlation, the new variables, just as you said, first increased and then decreased both. Which offset the nearly precise curve it was in the 60s as, like you said, the new variables were introduced. > Inflating the currency still can temporarily reduce unemployment. The > time limit is from the other factors that come into play as the economy > eventually collapses.

Exactly. Inflated, corrupt and short-sighted is no way to run the economy. Anymore than fat, drunk and stupid is way to go through life. > You are no scientist Shambat. You can’t even identify dependent and > independent variables or external factors.

I know all about scientific method that you know. The difference between me and you is that I also know a lot of things that science can’t neatly measure, and my worldview is more informed. Ilya Shambat.

Response:

In news:1108171133.580006.162990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com <ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com> wrote : > The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical > inevitability. That premise is of course wrong. Bush, among others, > has shown that it is possible to use one’s own choice to break any > historical pattern or precedent and deliberately direct the course of > history, rather than being directed by history like an overgrown ape. > [...] > The act of observing a social, economic or consciousness-level pattern > and > putting it into words either sends mental energy at it that forces it > to > change form or direction, or else the pattern-maker demands absolute > liberty and mystery and, once observed, morphs into something else.

Yeah, this is why I’m doing so much work to analyze the dominant feminism. > I can fathom both scenarios. It most certainly has been my experience > that whenever someone predicts something outright, a large number of > people (including myself) seek to prove them wrong; and if it is > something positive, then there is still something inside of me wanting > to prove them wrong if only to assert my authority over my life. So I > have two possible explanation for the aforementioned phenomena: One, > that observing social, economic and consciousness patterns changes > them at the quantum level; and two, that when forces of Dionysian > universality are observed and articulated they seek to regain mystery > and control by morphing into something else.

That’s not that complicated. Humans are just constantly trying to prove that they’re not determined. So they’re doing the contrary of what the theories had foreseen. But it’s not freedom. It’s reaction. Just like the kids who constantly do the contrary of what they’re told to do. They think they’re free… If you want evidence, just look at election polls. Many people try to prove them wrong. It can work once. Never works at the following election (for example, out here, many people who vote extreme right wing, when they’re polled, lie [they say that they'll vote classical right wing, republicans or something]. The first time opinion polls scientists are fooled. Since then, they multiply by 2 the numbers of people who declare they’ll vote for the extreme right wing. So apparently, people are not as free as electrons. Who are not free either, anyway : just because we can’t foresee something doesn’t mean that it happens at random. As Einstein used to put it, despite the Heiseinberg inequality, "God doesn’t play dice". And basically, you’re mistaking determinism for fatalism. btw there’s a funny book about someone constantly doing the same mistake, a book by Diderot called /Jacques the Fatalist/ . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Which one it is – or both – I do not yet know. I do know, for example, > that when I sought out the essences through meditation – when I > approached not intending to dissect but rather simply approached and > listened to infinity – I was given insight I had not possessed > previously. And what I also found was this: That the wisdom and > knowledge that dwelled at that level was infinite; that it kept > emanating existents and patterns and attributes and never in its > creativity came to a halt. And to attempt to understand it logically > was similar to attempting to map the patterns in ocean using Euclidian > geometry. > So to people who claim that there is such a thing as historical > inevitability, I say: Not only does man possess power to change > history deliberately, > but that furthermore any attempt to > deliberately bring about an outcome regarded to be historically > inevitable is in violation of the premise of the theory.

Jacques the Fatalist, lol !! [when criminals were breaking in his hotel, he was not even trying to get away to save his life. He was just sitting, telling his mater (his boss), that anyway there was no need to do anything : "my fate is already written so trying to escape won't change anything" -> LOL! I think his fate was just to be short-sighted, lol > And, as I've > seen both from economics and from consciousness studies and > spirituality, the universe refuses to be predicted or even patterned; > and, once a pattern is discovered, it ceases to be. > The concept of > free will and the concept of inevitability are mutually > contradictory,

that is true. > and if a person truly believes in Marxism then he must > not try to deliberately bring it about.

wrong. Actually you should study Calvinism a little. They think that they have a fate. Some are elected, some are doomed (from birth). Thus, all Calvinists are working very hard every day of their life, because all of them ignore if they belong to the elected people, or if they're doomed. wrt Marx, he will be proven wrong at the end of mankind (people will be able to tell : communism never happened. Or : communism did happen. Damn, that guy who lived 3 billions years ago was right (!)) I'm not a marxist myself, btw. - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -> And if a person seeks to > impose logic and control on the chaos and the oceanic, the quantum > dynamics of change through observation (or the dynamics of universe > seeking to remain mysterious and uncontrolled) will frustrate him > again and again.

Response:

<ilya_shambat2...@yahoo.com> wrote > 'lini wrote: > > <ilya_shambat2...@yahoo.com> wrote > > > Sick Mind wrote: >>>> What patterns would those be? I would like to see one >>>> economic pattern that ceased to exist because it was discovered. >>> They were there. Read your books. >> For example? > I think I recall something about, in late 60s or early 70s, seeing > precise inverse correlation between inflation and unemployment - a > pattern that was very precise. Then came the 70s, and both inflation > and unemployment rose.

The relationship between inflation and unemployment has not changed at all. You forgot the essential part of most mathematical models, "other factors being insignificant." No one ever said that unemployment was solely determined by inflation. They said inflation was a factor, but there are other factors. The "other factors" in the 70s were from an oil crisis. It was a serious problem that increased both unemployment and inflation. Even during that crisis had the inflation been lower than it was the unemployment would have been higher than it was in accordance with the formula. Inflating the currency still can temporarily reduce unemployment. The time limit is from the other factors that come into play as the economy eventually collapses. You are no scientist Shambat. You can't even identify dependent and independent variables or external factors. -- Sick Mind borod...@att.net - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text ->>>> Maybe that is because they were never really more than your >>>> own >>>> overactive imagination which I have yet to see identify any real >>> pattern in the first place.

Response:

The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical inevitability. That premise is of course wrong. Bush, among others, has shown that it is possible to use one's own choice to break any historical pattern or precedent and deliberately direct the course of history, rather than being directed by history like an overgrown ape. The implementation of Communism was of course completely inconsistent with Marxian theory. A Lenin, a Mao or a Castro who uses deliberate action to bring about an outcome that is supposedly historically inevitability is not letting the course of history take its course, but is acting deliberately to make it happen. Now if you are acting deliberately, then you are not acting according to historical inevitability; and if you believe in historical inevitability then you can only harm your cause by jumping the gun and using your own powers to bring about what should come naturally without your assistance. In my studies as an economics major, I saw this frequent scenario: An economist discovers a pattern; and in the years that follow the pattern ceases to exist. This happened at a far greater rate than chance, and while someone may say that there are patterns in chaos which are ephemeral, it would stand to be predicted that at least some of the patterns discovered would persist for a couple years after their discovery, rather than disappearing in every case immediately once they have been spotted. In my meditations in spring 2000, I discovered something very similar. Every time I apprehended and verbalized a pattern in the consciousness of another person or in the cultural consciousness, it ceased to exist. This leads me to believe that the forces at work are the same in both cases: That whatever the source of patterns, demands absolute freedom, and any time it is apprehended the source has to change forms in order to remain in existence. This is of course quite similar to quantum mechanics. The process of observing the electron demands using a photon to see its place and speed; and as the photon is sent at the electron, the electron is bumped and changes speed and position. It seems to me that at this level - at the level of meditative mind, at the levelof social and economical patterns, at the level of Dyonisian universality - something similar takes place. The act of observing a social, economic or consciousness-level pattern and putting it into words either sends mental energy at it that forces it to change form or direction, or else the pattern-maker demands absolute liberty and mystery and, once observed, morphs into something else. I can fathom both scenarios. It most certainly has been my experience that whenever someone predicts something outright, a large number of people (including myself) seek to prove them wrong; and if it is something positive, then there is still something inside of me wanting to prove them wrong if only to assert my authority over my life. So I have two possible explanation for the aforementioned phenomena: One, that observing social, economic and consciousness patterns changes them at the quantum level; and two, that when forces of Dionysian universality are observed and articulated they seek to regain mystery and control by morphing into something else. Which one it is - or both - I do not yet know. I do know, for example, that when I sought out the essences through meditation - when I approached not intending to dissect but rather simply approached and listened to infinity - I was given insight I had not possessed previously. And what I also found was this: That the wisdom and knowledge that dwelled at that level was infinite; that it kept emanating existents and patterns and attributes and never in its creativity came to a halt. And to attempt to understand it logically was similar to attempting to map the patterns in ocean using Euclidian geometry. So to people who claim that there is such a thing as historical inevitability, I say: Not only does man possess power to change history deliberately, but that furthermore any attempt to deliberately bring about an outcome regarded to be historically inevitable is in violation of the premise of the theory. And, as I've seen both from economics and from consciousness studies and spirituality, the universe refuses to be predicted or even patterned; and, once a pattern is discovered, it ceases to be. The concept of free will and the concept of inevitability are mutually contradictory, and if a person truly believes in Marxism then he must not try to deliberately bring it about. And if a person seeks to impose logic and control on the chaos and the oceanic, the quantum dynamics of change through observation (or the dynamics of universe seeking to remain mysterious and uncontrolled) will frustrate him again and again. Ilya Shambat.

Response:

'lini wrote: > <ilya_shambat2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1108221717.140726.254700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Sick Mind wrote: > > > What patterns would those be? I would like to see one economic > > pattern > > > that ceased to exist because it was discovered. > > They were there. Read your books. > For example?

I think I recall something about, in late 60s or early 70s, seeing precise inverse correlation between inflation and unemployment - a pattern that was very precise. Then came the 70s, and both inflation and unemployment rose. > > > Maybe that is because they were never really more than your own > > > overactive imagination which I have yet to see identify any real > > pattern in > > > the first place. > > I have very good reasons to recognize you to be wrong. > For example?

This. a galaxy inside a human eye a galaxy cupescent and discerning through powdered jeweled spark of human yearning explodes mind's universe into a lie - a cobweb spun of insolence and truth - a cobweb bled of bundled hope and fear - ensnared a soul - and tore a vision clear ensnared a soul - and culminated youth delight of live and innocence of true achieve consistency of fiberoptic cable that leaps across the Mendeleev's table to spark the soul through every me and you - a moment springs to life and weaves to bliss all timeless springs that were ungently shattered, a breeze through misty caves of time and matter awakes despondent scrutiny of Is - a fairy plays beneath a dragon's maw discerning eyes of logos never see her for symbol grates and fears it would deliver a glance that scorches essence Dull and Raw the word begins and spins a seamy spell and savagely remembers to deliver - the seed sprouts forth and is a sweet don't-fear inside the cozy darkness of don't-tell - a who will rise at dusk and start to cry - until a what returns to which's lair to kill the when contained within the where to strangle how with an ungentle why - to smash obstruction with a clanging door into quintessence perfectly inviting through bursting fire and ecstatic lightning a gunning powder of the world-what-for - a world not of what-if but of what-could - a world of gushing thoughts that move no turbines as quantum haze of whirling bits determines a passion burning and misunderstood - a world of think that's not a world of see where logic shatters like a crumbling mirror that if intention only made it clearer would flow with perfect nothingness of be - through nearly-deads and almost-never-borns - through fragrant clever and despondent ponder - through shady knows and inadvertent wonder - through words that cinge Forever on their horns - through crystal skein enfolding fields of stars through nebulas of heart's incessant rhythms through incandescent scrutiny of schisms through turning points that mark the life like scars - each minute's spell impaled upon a crux - each blueprint raging wavelike in the ocean to flow through filter-mind with seamless motion to Morph all screaming Matter into Flux: to resurrect from Lymphic Gashing air pluperfect life that was not fully made to form of foam and fire unbetrayed the Venus-seed that consummates despair with skin that melts and sublimates the sky with consummation of all thought and habit with mind that is too thoughtful to inhabit the bursting inside of a bleeding eye: a lightning strikes and sends the waters fuming a lightning strikes and scatters stars awry the cloud recoils again and heaves a sigh that only thinks its darkness all-consuming - but in the depth the soul resumes a spark that coils and boils and bursts into intention and struggles through the darkness of convention to weave the essence toward a question mark to maybe so that batters and deceives - to maybe no that sits on treasure markers - to maybe be a perfect misty darkness impaled on aimless synergy of ifs - on consummation of the be and through on sounds that fly in smooth and swirling motion - on incandescence shattering emotion - on moments far too tattered to be true - on moments far too gorgeous to be present - ob moments far too potent to sit still - on moments that spring numbness into will - on moments that are spindling and incessant - of moments that are gentle like a breeze and rageful more like a volcanic fire - of moments that mix present with inspire and set the future sailing on high seas - that leap across a timeless arctic shelf to overthrow the tyranny of never - to kill the soul's deceit and to dissever the hideousness of thoughts that murder Self - if but to seize such moment by its neck and let the treacle of the sun completely expunge the poisoned sting that indiscretely erodes its soul into a crispy speck - if only but to grind into a dust all that is unalive and unforgiving and pour it through the filters of the living into the all-consuming grave of must - if only but to boil into a tea the jasmin past with cafeinated present and let the rainbow, elegant and pleasant, revive and consummate Infinity - if but to scald with Restless Timeless Hands the Inadvertent and the Undeserving and let the passion that is always burning instill a heart that always understands - if but to live like constant bursting flame like an interpid and explosive thunder that leaps in syllogisms of restless wonder across the restless I-am-that-I-am - that weaves like spider through a petal heart with filaments untender and inviting electric nebulas of sudden lighting that cinges souls and burst facades apart to polarize into a now and hence from which springs forth in Now the apparition that brings the knowledge-seed into fruition thus to agglomerate to Circumstance - to tap into the cosmic of each stream and let it gush torrentially toward solution across the pattern bled to destitution the throbbing voice of an abandoned dream that steals its soul and drapes it with disease that steals its nerves and pours inside obstruction that hopes the grating lard of its instruction would be enough to clatter eros into grease still knowing of the lie that is in-built still knowing of what underlies the reason still knowing and aware of this treason warping the mind forever into guilt - still knowing of the grating skein of lies that hides the mind inside a womb of fear and warps the gloried new of every year into a "why does sun still even rise" into a yes but build on this deceiving into a yes but me is really not into a mind that splinters into rot each time it bursts athena-like to living into a don't you ever dare you to restore the glorious passion that the heart can feel into a don't you dare to see the real for everyone is broken at the core - into be gentle to retain the coils into be silent lest you spark into a fire the essence that is known to inspire but is now buried under toxic soils into a make a fear your basic center into a make a life a theorem thereon into a call this structure Babylon and scatter human reason into banter into a code that from start to end is skein of lies desiring to dissemble confounds the judgment and with each new amble composes prison further of one's head a skein that then grows thickness of a knee and places mind upon a horn distorted then dully bashes straight into the forehead with a rock-headed lie of this-is-me - to cinge these lies and spring the passion pure to cinge injustice still and let the light flow with a perfect essence of delight into the minds no longer burdened with manure to be like sunlight shining through each tree to in each clorofill produce a prana that consummates the nature to nirvana that it is the given pathway into free - weave mind through nature, leucocyte through blood, a thread of love through every needling fear and to arrive, magnificent and clear, into a synthesis complete of man and God to consummate the soul-spark into true to bring through reason's path each Inspiration to weave each passion into Incantation to tear the life-lies by their roots and build Anew to resurrect the spirit in each me to resurrect the spirit that is all to resurrect the core of every soul and make it beautiful with clarity to dare and know and never to forget to dare and know and weave into fruition the basic essence that through uncondition is bled as pure and true as all beget to lose the sanity and gain a mind to lose the partial and gain the whole to open doors into a human soul and let its foul fetters fall aside to break the border between think and can to deconstruct the lie of every prison to unobstruct the soul from all false reason to shatter mannikin and resurrect the man to take the burning fire of each me sprawling on bins and shattered with false know and let the passion of its essence grow into the consummate Integrity not cowardly move-on but move-right-through not craven grow-up but a Becoming not lying similitude but weave-all-coming into a mind that to the universe is true into mind that like a beaming sun awakes each day and with a fire unyielding restores the world to clarity while wielding the sound as bright as barrel of a gun a sound to wake a creature neath the waves who builds a pearl of every sandspeck grating and consummates with patience unrelenting chaotic patterns into seamless caves - and from the gentle and caressing sea from their concupiscent and misty darkness springs forth to life a loving muse that hearkens all seems of Try into an art of Be. Written 2000, revised 2003 by Ilya Shambat

Response:

Sick Mind wrote: > > In my studies as an economics major, I saw this frequent scenario: An > > economist discovers a pattern; and in the years that follow the pattern > > ceases to exist. > What patterns would those be? I would like to see one economic pattern > that ceased to exist because it was discovered.

They were there. Read your books. > I believe you are a person who is able to seem educated and > intellectual to people who aren't, but in reality you are nothing more than > a feather in the wind.

Yes, a feather in the wind, observing the patterns in the atmosphere and seeing the whole world from every view. > > In my meditations in spring 2000, I discovered something very similar. > > Every time I apprehended and verbalized a pattern in the consciousness > > of another person or in the cultural consciousness, it ceased to exist. > Maybe that is because they were never really more than your own > overactive imagination which I have yet to see identify any real pattern in > the first place.

I have very good reasons to recognize you to be wrong. > Frankly Ilya, you are trying to appear scientific and spiritual, but to > real scientists and religious you are clearly neither. > You are just an evil troll, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard you say. You should know better.

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -DaKitty wrote: > "Doug" <drwi...@socal.rr.com> wrote in message > news:jdePd.762$VD5.28@twister.socal.rr.com... >> Jane Asher's Vagina wrote: >>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:50:22 GMT, Doug wrote: >>>>>> The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: >>>>>> Historical inevitability. >>>>> Bullshit. >>>> Is that Historical Bullshit? >>>> I liked your name so I decided to reply to this silliness. >>>> Let's do more corss posting. >>> Sure. Corss enof 4 u? >> Pross coasting is always fun. > I thought this was Coors posting

Well, it would make this thread more fun.

Response:

<ilya_shambat2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1108221717.140726.254700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Sick Mind wrote: > > > In my studies as an economics major, I saw this frequent scenario: > An > > > economist discovers a pattern; and in the years that follow the > pattern > > > ceases to exist. > > What patterns would those be? I would like to see one economic > pattern > > that ceased to exist because it was discovered. > They were there. Read your books.

For example? > > Maybe that is because they were never really more than your own > > overactive imagination which I have yet to see identify any real > pattern in > > the first place. > I have very good reasons to recognize you to be wrong.

For example?

Response:

Sick Mind wrote: > <ilya_shambat2...@yahoo.com> wrote > > The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: > > Historical inevitability. That premise is of course wrong. > > Bush, among others, has shown that it is possible to use > > one's own choice to break any historical pattern or > > precedent and deliberately direct the course of history, > > rather than being directed by history like an overgrown ape.

[<SZIPT>] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Frankly Ilya, you are trying to appear scientific and > spiritual, but to real scientists and religious you are > clearly neither. You are just an evil troll, > a wolf in sheep’s clothing. > — > Sick Mind > borod…@att.net Free Speech wrote: > 2/11/2005 > by William Gheen > President, Americans for Legal Immigration PAC > Topics: President, reform, activism, laws, illegal > immigration, censorship. > The shot heard around the Internet has been fired on > FreeRepublic.com The owner Jim Robinson and his moderators > have launched a sniper style purge against members that > disagree with the President’s ‘guest worker’ amnesty or > support more control of illegal immigration. Free Republic > is an amazing tool for those looking for a good debate and > news from around the country. > The problem for the administration of the site is that > their creation is allowing the participants to learn that > the Bush immigration record and plans are shockingly out > of line with the views of most conservatives. > The management’s answer to this conflict between the > majority of conservatives and the influence of the > White House on their Web site has become electronic > executions and censorship. [...] > http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=206

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Jerry Falwell make nice-nice! http://jackanapes.ws/ani/tinkysrevenge.gif Mr. & Mrs. Osama Bin Laden: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/osama.jpg NBC NEWS: Dr. James Dobson Square Pants says: "FREE MARTHA STEWART!" http://www.groupsrv.com/science/about79301.html LOVEPRONG RESURRECTION Presents: Angry Loner Moments http://www.loveprong.com/exec/review?Angry.Jennifer-Connelly.htm http://www.sikhtimes.com/jerry_falwell.jpg "Dr. James C. Dobson" j…@family.org Focus on the Family http://www.family.org/ http://www.nick.com/all_nick/tv_supersites/spongebob/main.jhtml Race for Next Space Prize Ignites http://www.wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66308,00.html Japan rejoins the space race http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2005-02-09-japan-rocket-la… The U.S. House of Representatives approved on Thursday a sweeping set of rules aimed at forcing states to issue all adults federally approved electronic ID cards, including driver’s licenses. Under the rules, federal employees would reject licenses or identity cards that don’t comply, which could curb Americans’ access to airplanes, trains, national parks, federal courthouses and other areas controlled by the federal government. The bill was approved by a 261-161 vote. The measure, called the Real ID Act, http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.418: , says that driver’s licenses and other ID cards must include a digital photograph, anticounterfeiting features and undefined "machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements" that could include a magnetic strip or RFID tag. House approves electronic ID cards http://news.com.com/House+approves+electronic+ID+cards/2100-1028_3-55… Politics & Government http://news.com.com/2002-1028_3-0.html FOXNEWS http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare.swf Third Reich Spiritualism http://www.markswatson.com/skulls2.jpg Nazis and the occult http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/occult-reich.html http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/arcana/nazi.html Good luck swastika http://www.whiterabbitcult.com/NWO/Swastika.html Swastika and mysticism http://searchlight.iwarp.com/articles/na_nazism.html Hitler’s Hindu priestess http://www.biblio-india.com/articles/mj00_ar1.asp?mp=MJ00 http://tinyurl.com/5v7rz Hitler and Athiesm http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creationism/Morality/Hitler.shtml Hitler vs. Christians http://members.tripod.com/~RobertGillette/Nuremburg-Trial-Info.html The Merovingian – Dagobert’s Revenge http://www.dragonkeypress.com/articles/article_2004_10_24_0257.html http://www.dagobertsrevenge.com/ Vril The Power of the Coming Race http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/vril/ http://www.djmcadam.com/vril.html Skull and Bones http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm Full text http://www.gutenberg.net/etext99/cmgrc10.txt Nazi roots in the occult http://www.sumeria.net/politics/nazioccult.html Vril mystical pre-Nazi cult http://www.sumeria.net/politics/nazioccult.html Hitler’s Secret Diaries http://hitlernazi.com/ Nazi Sex Perversions http://hitlernazi.com/NaziPerversions.html Hitler and Spear of Destiny http://www.cuttingedge.org/review/rv117.html Hitler and the occult http://www.crystalinks.com/hitler.html The Fifth Reich http://www.stargods.org/Fourth_Reich.htm Nazis and the occult http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/arcana/nazi.html Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/index.shtml Guido von List and Hitler http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html Nazis: The Occult Conspiracy http://www.coldfusionvideo.com/n/nazis.html THE NAZI NECROMANCER? http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/himmler.htm Nazis Clairvoyants and Robots http://www.salon.com/people/letters/2002/03/01/hanussen/ Nazism and Satanism http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/HITLEROC.TXT Occult and Nazism Re-Examined http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/occult-reich.html Nazi occult debunking http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/arcana/nazi.html NAZI UFOs http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/secrets/secrets.htm Nazis-Occult Conspiracy http://tinyurl.com/6lcc5 THE SECOND GREAT DEPRESSION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED http://www.depression2.tv The Anti-Christ http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Pat_Robertson http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=49&row=1 Coming Soon To A Superpower Near You http://www.markswatson.com/skulls2.jpg Ritual Slaughter & Islamic Magic http://www.al-islam.org/quran/ Because of a scheduling conflict, please note that the Candy Convention has been moved to room 2121, in order to make space for the previously scheduled Candy Shaped Rat Poison Convention in Room 1212. We apologize for the misunderstanding. http://www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/ring.htm http://www.sikhtimes.com/jerry_falwell.jpg FOXNEWS http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare.swf "We just sit and listen to the fullness of the quiet, as an antipode to focused busyness." (Kathryn A. Knox). ________________________________________ * All Beheadings are Strictly Prohibitted! [SORRY]–The Management The FAA had 52 reports warning about pre-9/11 attacks… http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=FAA+52+reports&btnG=Google+Search Paul MacLean’s triune brain hypothesis http://www.kheper.net/topics/intelligence/MacLean.htm [~][^][~] ADOLF HITLER’S REPTOID COMIC BOOK: http://web.archive.org/web/19980424220056/www.brotherblue.org/datruth… [~][^][~] "He [Eckart] said, ‘I have connected Hitler with THEM.’ Hitler was plugged into the lower fourth dimension and was being a puppet for these lower astral reptilian beings." — David Icke http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2/biggestsecret.html [~][^][~] Zulu Shaman Credo Mutwa’s Chitauri & Mantindane http://www.sabon.org/credo/index2.html [~][^][~] White Continent, Dark Secrets "… an abductee named Alex Christopher says he saw reptiloids and Nazis working together aboard antigravity craft or within underground bases. At least one of those bases is reported to have existed in Antarctica." — Rep. T. Lloyd http://www.polar.org/antsun/oldissues99-2000/2000_0206/conspiracy.html [~][^][~] http://www.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/saturn.htm "…. Ever and again in the history of magic Germany has been considered to be the stronghold of the Black Arts. Alchemy, Astrology, the Kabbalah, Rosicrucianism, Illuminism, esoteric Freemasonry, Xtian mysticism, Rune magic – name what you want in the Western tradition and you will find at least some German influence behind it. While the Golden Dawn had to fake its Cipher documents purporting to prove its German origins, the O.T.O. was a genuinely German (or, more precisely, Austrian) creation. Aleister Crowley himself spent some time on and off in Germany, and everyone will remember that notable conference in Weida, Thuringia, in 1926, where the Master Therion attempted, albeit unsucessfully, to have himself proclaimed World Saviour by the German Pansophic Movement. Rumours about the occult connections of National Socialism have abounded ever since the war, and in spite of Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke’s excellent study _The Occult Roots of Nazism_, which ought to have put a positive end at least to the worst hearsay in the style of Trevor Ravencroft’s tabloid press type books, lots of people still fondly nurture the belief that Hitler was basically little more than a black magician gone bonkers. Anyway, interest in Germanic occult thought has never really diminished in the English speaking world…" http://www.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/fs1.htm [~][^][~] The Unknown Hitler: Nazi Roots in the Occult "On April 6, 1919, in Bavaria, left wing socialists and anarchists

Response:

On 11 Feb 2005 17:18:53 -0800, ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com wrote: > The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical > inevitability.

Bullshit.

Response:

Jane Asher’s Vagina wrote: > On 11 Feb 2005 17:18:53 -0800, ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com wrote: >> The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical >> inevitability. > Bullshit.

Is that Historical Bullshit? I liked your name so I decided to reply to this silliness. Let’s do more corss posting.

Response:

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:50:22 GMT, Doug wrote: >>> The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical >>> inevitability. >> Bullshit. > Is that Historical Bullshit? > I liked your name so I decided to reply to this silliness. > Let’s do more corss posting.

Sure. Corss enof 4 u?

Response:

Jane Asher’s Vagina wrote: > On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:50:22 GMT, Doug wrote: >>>> The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical >>>> inevitability. >>> Bullshit. >> Is that Historical Bullshit? >> I liked your name so I decided to reply to this silliness. >> Let’s do more corss posting. > Sure. Corss enof 4 u?

Pross coasting is always fun. Doug

Response:

"Doug" <drwi…@socal.rr.com> wrote in message

news:jdePd.762$VD5.28@twister.socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jane Asher’s Vagina wrote: > > On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:50:22 GMT, Doug wrote: > >>>> The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical > >>>> inevitability. > >>> Bullshit. > >> Is that Historical Bullshit? > >> I liked your name so I decided to reply to this silliness. > >> Let’s do more corss posting. > > Sure. Corss enof 4 u? > Pross coasting is always fun.

I thought this was Coors posting

Response:

<ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com> wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The doctrine of Communism was based on a single premise: Historical > inevitability. That premise is of course wrong. Bush, among others, > has shown that it is possible to use one’s own choice to break any > historical pattern or precedent and deliberately direct the course of > history, rather than being directed by history like an overgrown ape. > The implementation of Communism was of course completely inconsistent > with Marxian theory. A Lenin, a Mao or a Castro who uses deliberate > action to bring about an outcome that is supposedly historically > inevitability is not letting the course of history take its course, but > is acting deliberately to make it happen. Now if you are acting > deliberately, then you are not acting according to historical > inevitability; and if you believe in historical inevitability then you > can only harm your cause by jumping the gun and using your own powers > to bring about what should come naturally without your assistance. > In my studies as an economics major, I saw this frequent scenario: An > economist discovers a pattern; and in the years that follow the pattern > ceases to exist.

What patterns would those be? I would like to see one economic pattern that ceased to exist because it was discovered. Let’s see. Price is found at the intersection of supply and demand. That is still true after more than 200 years. It can’t be that pattern you mean. > This happened at a far greater rate than chance,

… and yet I remain skeptical. I believe you are a person who is able to seem educated and intellectual to people who aren’t, but in reality you are nothing more than a feather in the wind. > and > while someone may say that there are patterns in chaos which are > ephemeral, it would stand to be predicted that at least some of the > patterns discovered would persist for a couple years after their > discovery, rather than disappearing in every case immediately once they > have been spotted. > In my meditations in spring 2000, I discovered something very similar. > Every time I apprehended and verbalized a pattern in the consciousness > of another person or in the cultural consciousness, it ceased to exist.

Maybe that is because they were never really more than your own overactive imagination which I have yet to see identify any real pattern in the first place. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This leads me to believe that the forces at work are the same in both > cases: That whatever the source of patterns, demands absolute freedom, > and any time it is apprehended the source has to change forms in order > to remain in existence. > This is of course quite similar to quantum mechanics. The process of > observing the electron demands using a photon to see its place and > speed; and as the photon is sent at the electron, the electron is > bumped > and changes speed and position. It seems to me that at this level – at > the > level of meditative mind, at the levelof social and economical > patterns, > at the level of Dyonisian universality – something similar takes place. > The act of observing a social, economic or consciousness-level pattern > and > putting it into words either sends mental energy at it that forces it > to > change form or direction, or else the pattern-maker demands absolute > liberty and mystery and, once observed, morphs into something else. > I can fathom both scenarios. It most certainly has been my experience > that whenever someone predicts something outright, a large number of > people (including myself) seek to prove them wrong; and if it is > something positive, then there is still something inside of me wanting > to prove them wrong if only to assert my authority over my life. So I > have two possible explanation for the aforementioned phenomena: One, > that observing social, economic and consciousness patterns changes them > at the quantum level; and two, that when forces of Dionysian > universality are observed and articulated they seek to regain mystery > and control by morphing into something else. > Which one it is – or both – I do not yet know. I do know, for example, > that when I sought out the essences through meditation – when I > approached not intending to dissect but rather simply approached and > listened to infinity – I was given insight I had not possessed > previously. And what I also found was this: That the wisdom and > knowledge that dwelled at that level was infinite; that it kept > emanating existents and patterns and attributes and never in its > creativity came to a halt. And to attempt to understand it logically > was similar to attempting to map the patterns in ocean using Euclidian > geometry. > So to people who claim that there is such a thing as historical > inevitability, I say: Not only does man possess power to change history > deliberately, but that furthermore any attempt to deliberately bring > about an outcome regarded to be historically inevitable is in violation > of the premise of the theory. And, as I’ve seen both from economics and > from consciousness studies and spirituality, the universe refuses to be > predicted or even patterned; and, once a pattern is discovered, it > ceases to be. The concept of free will and the concept of inevitability > are mutually contradictory, and if a person truly believes in Marxism > then he must not try to deliberately bring it about. And if a person > seeks to impose logic and control on the chaos and the oceanic, the > quantum dynamics of change through observation (or the dynamics of > universe seeking to remain mysterious and uncontrolled) will frustrate > him again and again. > Ilya Shambat.

One of my favorite science fiction writers years ago wrote that while it is almost impossible to predict what an individual will do it is quite simple to predict what thousands will do. In fact that is how the insurance industry works. They know approximately how many will get heart attacks, how many houses will burn down, how many automobile accidents there will be. They don’t know which individuals will be involved, but they don’t have to know. Frankly Ilya, you are trying to appear scientific and spiritual, but to real scientists and religious you are clearly neither. You are just an evil troll, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. — Sick Mind borod…@att.net

Response:

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