Filed under: Internet activism
Question:
Interesting that this is a location showing close to Moscow. Such flattery he has in mind. Martin Aquinas – "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for the West as it commits suicide Borders…Language,..Culture…QUICK!
Response:
Interesting that this is a location showing close to Moscow. dat must be dah kaufman nagliah dick licka hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Everyone on this newsgroup, (alt.politics.socialism.trotsky) should know that it is a risky proposition to engage in discussion with William Kaufman, not only because he is insufferably arrogant and rude, but because recently he snitched on a socialist to try to get him fired from his job. Kaufman is almost certainly mentally unstable, and there’s no reason to suspect he won’t try to do the same to you if you disagree with him. Here’s the full story. Some months ago on the alt.politics.socialism.trotsky, Kaufman mentioned that he was a member of the Socialist Workers Party back in the heyday of the antiwar movement and for a short time thereafter. No crime in that. A few weeks ago, Kaufman was berating another a.p.s.t. participant, Louis Proyect, about that person’s real or alleged lack of participation in real-life activism. Proyect responded by saying that Kaufman himself had not been involved in political activity since Kaufman’s membership in the SWP thirty years ago. Kaufman responded by calling up Proyect’s employer, Columbia University, in an attempt to get Proyect fired. And in fact, Proyect was reprimanded by his boss, allegedly for spending too much time on Usenet on work time. Kaufman quite falsely alleged to Proyect’s boss that Proyect had been "harrassing" Kaufman online; in reality, it is Kaufman who berates and harrasses other people on the Internet at the slightest provocation. Most gallingly, Kaufman justified his behavior by claiming that PROYECT was the snitch! Why? Because Proyect had merely reposted Kaufman’s statement a few months back that he had been a member of the Socialist Workers Party! Kaufman called this "outing leftists’ political allegiances to the police," which is a pretty silly accusation, given the fact that he himself had mentioned his past political affiliations on Usenet for the whole world to see. A trademark of Kaufman’s online behavior is his tendency toward the psychological phenomenon of "projection," whereby he attributes his own follies and stupidities to other people. Therefore Proyect is the snitch, and not Kaufman. Therefore, it is other people who refuse to answer political arguments, not Kaufman. Therefore it is other people who do not participate in real-life activism, and not Kaufman, etc. Above all, it seems Kaufman just spends way too much time online, and needs a break from the Internet before he hurts himself or others. Shortly after his ratting out of Proyect, I sent Kaufman an e-mail to this effect, telling him he should take a break from the Internet for the sake of his own health, and he responded with his trademark vituperation, in an e-mail replete with phrases like "I wish you nothing but ill, you Stalinist hack," and the like. In short, then, I really recommend that people ignore Kaufman for the sake of their own safety online. He is mentally unstable and should not be trusted. John Lacny
Response:
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ( previous post snipped-follow thread ) That’s right – blame it all on clinton. Why not? It was his fault in the first place. Wrong. Clinton did nothing more than sell them a nuclear reactor to be used for the generation of electricity with the promise that they WOULD NOT pursue further "research" in this area. His promise was backed up by UN monitoring devices to keep them honest. "Promise." There’s your first problem. "Backed up by UN monitoring." There’s your second problem. What "problems?" If you bothered to read the thread you would have discovered that the previous poster said that it was all Clinton’s falut. I merely corrected him by posting the events as the record indicates.
I’m agreeing with him. Clinton took their "promise" because he didn’t have the cajones to find out if the U.S. military would fight for him. I wonder if the NKs contributed to his Presidential Library fund? Trusting the linguini-spined turd-worlders in the U.N. to do anything but advocate the redistribution of wealth is a false hope. "Clinton…sell." There are a few more problems. It’ll be decades before the world recovers from the sneaky self-serving things that cocksucker did. Yes, like giving the nation the first budget surplus we had in nearly 40 years. Problems like that, we’ll deal with anytime.
Yeah, they balanced the budget at the expense of the Defense Department and 911 was the result. When you get beyond hatred, you generally get the ability to evaluate events as they impact, without the cloud of preconceived beliefs. You would do well to try that.
When you alternate having your head in the sand and up your own ass, you sound like…well, you. Never believe Communists and other liberals, and never rely on the UN. There’s your hatred clouding your ctirical thinking abilities again. And hatred leads to suspicion, qualities which apparently you exhibit in abundance.
Yeah, and you’re going to give Bush and even break. People who are not burdened with your problems can take a more even strain and a more reasoned approach.
People who are not burdened with functioning testicles wait for better men than themselves to solve their problems. Stand back and let the big boys get to work. Had Clinton not sold them the reactor, they would have pursued their research on their own, likely developed the technology they now have, but many years earlier, and precipitated the crisis which now exists for your friend, Reactionary Ronnie to handle. Do you really think they ever actually stopped doing research? You of course have evidence that they did not? I would be pleased to have you cite it.
If that reactor is still in a position to be fired up, then they’ve had it ready to go all along. But if that’s your suspicious nature talking, I’m afraid we have to dismiss it.
You can’t dismiss me. I don’t recognize you as someone who matters. How fucking stupid are you? No, don’t even bother. A whole lot less than you. I don’t need to retreat to profanity and personal insult to make my case. But of course, if you had anything of substance, other than your flaming emotional appeal, likely you’d post it. Pity you do not.
I’m sorry. I feel that one must know one is an ignorant asshole in order to rectify the problem. I guess your friends won’t tell you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Uh, if you’re referring to Ronald Regan, he hasn’t been President for some time now.) Quite correct. And judging how he handled Iran-Contra, I don’t think he would have done so well. People should not do drugs and get on the Internet. When are you leaving? FAct remains that america had no problems with NK until the psycho bush came along. Fact of the matteis is that you have no clue, little girl. Stop believing everything you read in alt.activism, and try to broaden your sources a bit. While we really can’t blame Dumbya for this, and we really can’t say we had no problems with the North Koreans prior to him, we must wait to see how he handles this. And given his name, Dumbya, I’m not very optimistic. Alan And anyone who chooses a small meaningless Europeon country for a screen name can’t be all the bright. Regards, PLMerite More personal insult? Is your ego THAT shallow?
Hey, come up with a better nic. "Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. And Evil is not overcome by fleeing from it. and evil is certainly not overcome by fear and suspicion.
It’s not overcome by blind trust and naivete, either. You’re an enabler. People like you tacitly encouraged Hitler, Stalin, Mao and all the other tyrants throughout history. Put your rose-colored glasses back on and get back under your bed. Regards, PLMerite – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alan
Response:
It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. It is so much better than Billy’s clean up lies.
URANUTCASE. Are you saying WW3 is preferrable to having clinton lie about his girlfriend???? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact.
Good thing Gore lost, or we wouldn’t have survived the first catastrophe Clinton set us up for. Ha… That’s a good one……Everything was perfect….. while the Koreans were building nukes under Klintons nose he was getting a blow job….now that’s what I call perfect. So they’re building nukes? America has 10,000 nukes.
Hopefully we’ll have a few less this time next year. And a few less turd world wannabe tyrants, too. We’ve got lots of skyscrapers too. No big deal that because of Clinton/Gore we lost a few of ‘em, eh? Regards, PLMerite – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact.
Hey asshole, it was your butt buddy Klinton who sold us down the river on that one. Never ever trust a communist Dork BTW… I say old man care to explain why you feel woman have physical and psychological reasons to not be good with guns. What would be your position on woman in the military? In comabt units? Flying fighters? I cannot wait for an answer. I’d like to settle this issue before you go off raging against SUVs anymore. I and others feel your credibility is at stake. If by armed, you mean a can of pepper spray, then ok. But guns are a bad choice for women. For physical and psychological reasons they are not good with guns. Yes i know there are exceptions, but in general that’s the truth. A one pound cannister of bear spray is better for women than any gun. Pride of America, Mon, 09 Dec 2002 So what is it? You don’t think woman can be responsible gun owners and users. Why? — Frank A "natural right"? Where do those come from? – Catl Nisarel, 10/17/02 who claims to be an American citizen, demonstrating exactly how much he understands about the United States, it’s founding documents and principles and the people who risked everything to create it.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Hey asshole, it was your butt buddy Klinton who sold us down the river on that one. Never ever trust a communist Dork BTW… I say old man care to explain why you feel woman have physical and psychological reasons to not be good with guns. What would be your position on woman in the military? In comabt units? Flying fighters? I cannot wait for an answer. I’d like to settle this issue before you go off raging against SUVs anymore. I and others feel your credibility is at stake. If by armed, you mean a can of pepper spray, then ok. But guns are a bad choice for women. For physical and psychological reasons they are not good with guns. Yes i know there are exceptions, but in general that’s the truth. A one pound cannister of bear spray is better for women than any gun. Pride of America, Mon, 09 Dec 2002 So what is it? You don’t think woman can be responsible gun owners and users. Why? — Frank A "natural right"? Where do those come from? – Catl Nisarel, 10/17/02 who claims to be an American citizen, demonstrating exactly how much he understands about the United States, it’s founding documents and principles and the people who risked everything to create it.
Damn, you don’t give up do you? I don’t know how many times you’ve posed that question to PoA. Hey, PoA, answer the man’s fucking question already. It is a fair question and asked politely. Are you afraid of a little legitimate, open debate? It’s even in reference to something you said. Why should anyone listen to you if you wont respond to his question?
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact.
You forget that Clinton was the one who gave North Korea the nuclear technology to begin with, dipshit.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Ha… That’s a good one……Everything was perfect….. while the Koreans were building nukes under Klintons nose he was getting a blow job….now that’s what I call perfect. So they’re building nukes? America has 10,000 nukes.
Good. Let’s keep 10,000 nukes ahead of Korea.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Bill Clinton allowed the north Koreans to continue to work on Nuclear Weapons without any oversight or confirmation of their actions. All the while paying them in oil, for perceived good behavior. Does this mean we get our oil back? That’s right – blame it all on clinton.
Why not? It was his fault in the first place. FAct remains that america had no problems with NK until the psycho bush came along.
Fact of the matteis is that you have no clue, little girl. Stop believing everything you read in alt.activism, and try to broaden your sources a bit.
Response:
It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. You forget that Clinton was the one who gave North Korea the nuclear technology to begin with, dipshit.
You need to review what President Clinton actually did and you additionally need to have some degree of understanding of nuclear capacity. First of all, President Clinton agreed to allow the North Koreans to purchase the materials to construct a nuclear plant for the generation of electricity, with the understanding that those plants would be monitored and not used to generate enriched uranium. To this date, that had indeed been the case. There is a difference between selling the Koreans the materials, which was done and selling them the technology to manufacture the items, which was never done. The technology to remove and enrich uranium and plutonium from the mass of all isotopes was never sold, and to this day, that process is closely guarded. So your obvious lack of understanding of technological processes contributes to your failure to interpret the events in proper context. Now, the Koreans have told us, through their removal of the monitoring devices, that they plan to begin to enrich uranium, through technology which their own scientists have obviously "rediscovered." That process and concommittant independent discovery by Communist scientists could never have been stopped. And that, is not the fault of Clinton or of Dumbya. It just is a natural sequence of events. What is interesting, is that the threat by North Korea is far greater than that posed by Saddam Hussein, yet Dumbya continues to take us towards a war with Iraq, with hardly a word about the far greater threat. Could it be that Dumbya, in his zeal to prosecute the only thing that he is good at( making war ) has more to do with keeping Republicans in power and of obtaining cheap oil to bolster the profits of his inner circle, made up of oilmen than of taking care of national security? His silence on taking out North Korea is deafening and gives intelligent people reason to believe that this is the case. Alan
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Bill Clinton allowed the north Koreans to continue to work on Nuclear Weapons without any oversight or confirmation of their actions. All the while paying them in oil, for perceived good behavior. Does this mean we get our oil back? That’s right – blame it all on clinton. Why not? It was his fault in the first place.
Wrong. Clinton did nothing more than sell them a nuclear reactor to be used for the generation of electricity with the promise that they WOULD NOT pursue further "research" in this area. His promise was backed up by UN monitoring devices to keep them honest. Had Clinton not sold them the reactor, they would have pursued their research on their own, likely developed the technology they now have, but many years earlier, and precipitated the crisis which now exists for your friend, Reactionary Ronnie to handle. And judging how he handled Iran-Contra, I don’t think he would have done so well. FAct remains that america had no problems with NK until the psycho bush came along. Fact of the matteis is that you have no clue, little girl. Stop believing everything you read in alt.activism, and try to broaden your sources a bit.
While we really can’t blame Dumbya for this, and we really can’t say we had no problems with the North Koreans prior to him, we must wait to see how he handles this. And given his name, Dumbya, I’m not very optimistic. Alan
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wrong. The plant they purchased was merely a plant with fuel to generate electricity. Oh gee don’t worry about all that enriched uranium by products in the hands of maniacal control freak leaders. All the worlds maniacs should have enriched uranium to make bombs with.
We’re not talking about all the world’s maniacs. Only Kim Il Jung in North Korea and the circumstances surrounding his aquisition of nuclear technology. Let’s stay on track. It takes a whole lot of other technology and science to turn the plant into a breeder reactor, which produces enriched uranium, of bomb-grade, which the North Koreans DIDN’T have. At least that is what Klinton wanted you to believe
No, genius, that’w what my training as a Chemist tells me. You need to know something about the technology to understand this, though. The North Koreans were working on just such a project at the time that Clinton sold them the plant. The deal that Clinton made, however, required monitoring safeguards to insure that they would KEEP their word and NOT pursue additional research towards that end. and it worked, at least for a few years, until recently. Not until recently my ass, they suckered him from the start, it was just another way to get over on a President that was more interested in public opinion than reality. He was a fool for beleiving the N Koreans. They suckered him right in.
Again you continue to be wrong. At the time of the Carter/Clinton agreement, it was suspected that North Korea was pursuing the technology to separate the fissionable isotope of Uranium from the non-fissionable isotopes. At the time of the accord, they had not as yet achieved this ability. Clinton as well as Carter, as well as our intelligence establishment knew this. The Deal was in reality a master stroke of diplomacy, giving North Korea without their having to spend a few more years to develop what they SAID they wanted the technology for( to generate electricity ). North Korea could not back away from it, because of how they would have been preceived, despite the fact that it was evident that their goal was to produce a nuclear weapon. They were maneuvered into accepting the accord, along with the monitoring devices, which had the effect of putting their bomb program on hold. No, my friend, what Clinton did bought us a few more years, until they decided recently to drop all pretenses and go ahead anyway. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These monitoring devices enabled us to insure that the North Koreans kept their word and did not pursue additional research, for if the devices were in place at the only plant they had which had the possibility of being used for same,then we could be reasonabley sure that they were keeping their word and NOT attempting to advance the technology needed to make a bomb. Had Clinton NOT sold them the plant, they would have continued their research on their own, ultimately produced a plant, whose location and contents we would NOT and NEVER have known, thus leaving the state of their technology to be discovered by out intelligence services, which have not been very "intelligent" in anything that matters of late. Gee that would be an easy guess, I am sure they would have continued on their own and I am certainly not of Presidential caliber. It would have been better to face it then instead of now. Klinton did nothing but put off the inevitable by entering one sided agreements with a communist dictator that he had to have known had a value of ZERO.
You are correct. Clinton did do nothing but put off the inevitable. I have already stated so, a few times. But it also did something else. It established the location and the extent of their abilities, two very important items which we would need to know, and would not have known if no deal had been struck and they continued their research at their own pace, without any monitoring. Remember, they were no further along then they are now. Essentially, they’re picking up their research where they left off. As far as your comments about Kim Il Jung, again you are correct. But he at least did honor them for a few years, which is better than nothing, which we would have had if Clinton did nothing. No, my friend, Clinton enabled us to at least keep them honest for a few years. I am not your friend, I choose friends wisely.
I regret that you did not understand the condescention. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To this date, that had indeed been the case. There is a difference between selling the Koreans the materials, which was done and selling them the technology to manufacture the items, which was never done. The technology to remove and enrich uranium and plutonium from the mass of all isotopes was never sold, and to this day, that process is closely guarded. That is why their core and storage ponds HAD cameras on them. True. So your obvious lack of understanding of technological processes contributes to your failure to interpret the events in proper context. Technical processes have nothing to do with it. They have everything to do with it. The plant that Clinton sold them was no more than any nuclear plant commercially used in The United States to generate electricity. The plants can only be used to enrich uranium, or generate plutonium only after siginficant technology is added and major modifications made. But in order to do that, you must first have the scientists capable of doing that. North Korea was reaching that plateau prior to Clinton’s sale. His efforts were aimed at heading off the development of their technology in enriching uranium. After all, if you recall at that time, they repeatedly stated that they only wanted to develop the technology so as to generate electricity. Clinton called their bluff and forced them to stick to their public statements, at least for a few years until now. So then you must be the type of person that gives kids matches and a can of gasoline to play with. His efforts were nothing more than fools agreement. The North Koreans have been sworn enemies of the US since the last Korean war. What kind of a fool negotiates with sworn enemies? Klinton was that kind of fool that’s what he was. Plain and simple.
Your continued ignorance about the science behind what Clinton gave them is telling. Your analogy is inaccurate. Clinton did not give them the equivalent of a can of gas to play with. What he gave them was the equivalent of an empty can. And as far as your stupidity about negotiation is concerned, you always try that first, and you manipulate if you can. You can always go to war. Clinto knew quite well his enemy, and he also had a good grasp of foreign affairs. He knew that his offer HAD to be accepted, and that Kim Il Jung would have no recourse( except to face immediate US air strikes which Clinton was considering ). Clinton maneuvered the maniac into doing what Clinton wanted. Problem is, you’re too hateful to evaluate the facts critically. Hatred has blinded you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, the Koreans have told us, through their removal of the monitoring devices, that they plan to begin to enrich uranium, through technology which their own scientists have obviously "rediscovered." That process and concommittant independent discovery by Communist scientists could never have been stopped. And that, is not the fault of Clinton or of Dumbya. It just is a natural sequence of events. With the enriched uranium that Klinton and his cronies agreed to allow to the Koreans via agreeing with them that development extraction etc does not proceed. Clinton never sold them enriched uranium. He sold them fuel rods commonly available for commercial reactors. Hey kids! What do you want to play with today? Gasoline? Or how about
Your inability to respond is duly noted. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is interesting, is that the threat by North Korea is far greater than that posed by Saddam Hussein, yet Dumbya continues to take us towards a war with Iraq, with hardly a word about the far greater threat. Could it be that Dumbya, in his zeal to prosecute the only thing that he is good at( making war ) has more to do with keeping Republicans in power and of obtaining cheap oil to bolster the profits of his inner circle, made up of oilmen than of taking care of national security? His silence on taking out North Korea is deafening and gives intelligent people reason to believe that this is the case. Deafening? Maybe you should read up on current news a bit. I hear his Really? Could you cite the news article where Dumbya has threatened war against North Korea if they don’t dismantle their nuclear plants or submit to inspection, as he did with Saddam? I see Rumsfeld has made some inane comments, but Dumbya has yet to threaten. Methinks you might have some creative hearing. Oh I guess it must have been you.
Your inability to cite the articles you allude to noted. So I challenge you a second time. Kindly cite the articles where Dumbya
… read more »
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Bill Clinton allowed the north Koreans to continue to work on Nuclear Weapons without any oversight or confirmation of their actions. All the while paying them in oil, for perceived good behavior. Does this mean we get our oil back? That’s right – blame it all on clinton. Why not? It was his fault in the first place. Wrong. Clinton did nothing more than sell them a nuclear reactor to be used for the generation of electricity with the promise that they WOULD NOT pursue further "research" in this area. His promise was backed up by UN monitoring devices to keep them honest.
"Promise." There’s your first problem. "Backed up by UN monitoring." There’s your second problem. "Clinton…sell." There are a few more problems. It’ll be decades before the world recovers from the sneaky self-serving things that cocksucker did. Never believe Communists and other liberals, and never rely on the UN. Had Clinton not sold them the reactor, they would have pursued their research on their own, likely developed the technology they now have, but many years earlier, and precipitated the crisis which now exists for your friend, Reactionary Ronnie to handle.
Do you really think they ever actually stopped doing research? How fucking stupid are you? No, don’t even bother. (Uh, if you’re referring to Ronald Regan, he hasn’t been President for some time now.) And judging how he handled Iran-Contra, I don’t think he would have done so well.
People should not do drugs and get on the Internet. FAct remains that america had no problems with NK until the psycho bush came along. Fact of the matteis is that you have no clue, little girl. Stop believing everything you read in alt.activism, and try to broaden your sources a bit. While we really can’t blame Dumbya for this, and we really can’t say we had no problems with the North Koreans prior to him, we must wait to see how he handles this. And given his name, Dumbya, I’m not very optimistic. Alan
And anyone who chooses a small meaningless Europeon country for a screen name can’t be all the bright. Regards, PLMerite "Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. And Evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper
Response:
Wrong. The plant they purchased was merely a plant with fuel to generate electricity.
Oh gee don’t worry about all that enriched uranium by products in the hands of maniacal control freak leaders. All the worlds maniacs should have enriched uranium to make bombs with. It takes a whole lot of other technology and science to turn the plant into a breeder reactor, which produces enriched uranium, of bomb-grade, which the North Koreans DIDN’T have.
At least that is what Klinton wanted you to believe You need to know something about the technology to understand this, though. The North Koreans were working on just such a project at the time that Clinton sold them the plant. The deal that Clinton made, however, required monitoring safeguards to insure that they would KEEP their word and NOT pursue additional research towards that end. and it worked, at least for a few years, until recently.
Not until recently my ass, they suckered him from the start, it was just another way to get over on a President that was more interested in public opinion than reality. He was a fool for beleiving the N Koreans. They suckered him right in. These monitoring devices enabled us to insure that the North Koreans kept their word and did not pursue additional research, for if the devices were in place at the only plant they had which had the possibility of being used for same,then we could be reasonabley sure that they were keeping their word and NOT attempting to advance the technology needed to make a bomb. Had Clinton NOT sold them the plant, they would have continued their research on their own, ultimately produced a plant, whose location and contents we would NOT and NEVER have known, thus leaving the state of their technology to be discovered by out intelligence services, which have not been very "intelligent" in anything that matters of late.
Gee that would be an easy guess, I am sure they would have continued on their own and I am certainly not of Presidential caliber. It would have been better to face it then instead of now. Klinton did nothing but put off the inevitable by entering one sided agreements with a communist dictator that he had to have known had a value of ZERO. No, my friend, Clinton enabled us to at least keep them honest for a few years.
I am not your friend, I choose friends wisely. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To this date, that had indeed been the case. There is a difference between selling the Koreans the materials, which was done and selling them the technology to manufacture the items, which was never done. The technology to remove and enrich uranium and plutonium from the mass of all isotopes was never sold, and to this day, that process is closely guarded. That is why their core and storage ponds HAD cameras on them. True. So your obvious lack of understanding of technological processes contributes to your failure to interpret the events in proper context. Technical processes have nothing to do with it. They have everything to do with it. The plant that Clinton sold them was no more than any nuclear plant commercially used in The United States to generate electricity. The plants can only be used to enrich uranium, or generate plutonium only after siginficant technology is added and major modifications made. But in order to do that, you must first have the scientists capable of doing that. North Korea was reaching that plateau prior to Clinton’s sale. His efforts were aimed at heading off the development of their technology in enriching uranium. After all, if you recall at that time, they repeatedly stated that they only wanted to develop the technology so as to generate electricity. Clinton called their bluff and forced them to stick to their public statements, at least for a few years until now.
So then you must be the type of person that gives kids matches and a can of gasoline to play with. His efforts were nothing more than fools agreement. The North Koreans have been sworn enemies of the US since the last Korean war. What kind of a fool negotiates with sworn enemies? Klinton was that kind of fool that’s what he was. Plain and simple. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, the Koreans have told us, through their removal of the monitoring devices, that they plan to begin to enrich uranium, through technology which their own scientists have obviously "rediscovered." That process and concommittant independent discovery by Communist scientists could never have been stopped. And that, is not the fault of Clinton or of Dumbya. It just is a natural sequence of events. With the enriched uranium that Klinton and his cronies agreed to allow to the Koreans via agreeing with them that development extraction etc does not proceed. Clinton never sold them enriched uranium. He sold them fuel rods commonly available for commercial reactors.
Hey kids! What do you want to play with today? Gasoline? Or how about – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is interesting, is that the threat by North Korea is far greater than that posed by Saddam Hussein, yet Dumbya continues to take us towards a war with Iraq, with hardly a word about the far greater threat. Could it be that Dumbya, in his zeal to prosecute the only thing that he is good at( making war ) has more to do with keeping Republicans in power and of obtaining cheap oil to bolster the profits of his inner circle, made up of oilmen than of taking care of national security? His silence on taking out North Korea is deafening and gives intelligent people reason to believe that this is the case. Deafening? Maybe you should read up on current news a bit. I hear his Really? Could you cite the news article where Dumbya has threatened war against North Korea if they don’t dismantle their nuclear plants or submit to inspection, as he did with Saddam? I see Rumsfeld has made some inane comments, but Dumbya has yet to threaten. Methinks you might have some creative hearing.
Oh I guess it must have been you. Cliff
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. You forget that Clinton was the one who gave North Korea the nuclear technology to begin with, dipshit. You need to review what President Clinton actually did and you additionally need to have some degree of understanding of nuclear capacity. First of all, President Clinton agreed to allow the North Koreans to purchase the materials to construct a nuclear plant for the generation of electricity, with the understanding that those plants would be monitored and not used to generate enriched uranium. BS The plant they have does generate enriched uranium, the seals on the ponds they were stored in was just broken and the monitoring cameras removed.
Wrong. The plant they purchased was merely a plant with fuel to generate electricity. It takes a whole lot of other technology and science to turn the plant into a breeder reactor, which produces enriched uranium, of bomb-grade, which the North Koreans DIDN’T have. You need to know something about the technology to understand this, though. The North Koreans were working on just such a project at the time that Clinton sold them the plant. The deal that Clinton made, however, required monitoring safeguards to insure that they would KEEP their word and NOT pursue additional research towards that end. and it worked, at least for a few years, until recently. These monitoring devices enabled us to insure that the North Koreans kept their word and did not pursue additional research, for if the devices were in place at the only plant they had which had the possibility of being used for same,then we could be reasonabley sure that they were keeping their word and NOT attempting to advance the technology needed to make a bomb. Had Clinton NOT sold them the plant, they would have continued their research on their own, ultimately produced a plant, whose location and contents we would NOT and NEVER have known, thus leaving the state of their technology to be discovered by out intelligence services, which have not been very "intelligent" in anything that matters of late. No, my friend, Clinton enabled us to at least keep them honest for a few years. To this date, that had indeed been the case. There is a difference between selling the Koreans the materials, which was done and selling them the technology to manufacture the items, which was never done. The technology to remove and enrich uranium and plutonium from the mass of all isotopes was never sold, and to this day, that process is closely guarded. That is why their core and storage ponds HAD cameras on them.
True. So your obvious lack of understanding of technological processes contributes to your failure to interpret the events in proper context. Technical processes have nothing to do with it.
They have everything to do with it. The plant that Clinton sold them was no more than any nuclear plant commercially used in The United States to generate electricity. The plants can only be used to enrich uranium, or generate plutonium only after siginficant technology is added and major modifications made. But in order to do that, you must first have the scientists capable of doing that. North Korea was reaching that plateau prior to Clinton’s sale. His efforts were aimed at heading off the development of their technology in enriching uranium. After all, if you recall at that time, they repeatedly stated that they only wanted to develop the technology so as to generate electricity. Clinton called their bluff and forced them to stick to their public statements, at least for a few years until now. Now, the Koreans have told us, through their removal of the monitoring devices, that they plan to begin to enrich uranium, through technology which their own scientists have obviously "rediscovered." That process and concommittant independent discovery by Communist scientists could never have been stopped. And that, is not the fault of Clinton or of Dumbya. It just is a natural sequence of events. With the enriched uranium that Klinton and his cronies agreed to allow to the Koreans via agreeing with them that development extraction etc does not proceed.
Clinton never sold them enriched uranium. He sold them fuel rods commonly available for commercial reactors. What is interesting, is that the threat by North Korea is far greater than that posed by Saddam Hussein, yet Dumbya continues to take us towards a war with Iraq, with hardly a word about the far greater threat. Could it be that Dumbya, in his zeal to prosecute the only thing that he is good at( making war ) has more to do with keeping Republicans in power and of obtaining cheap oil to bolster the profits of his inner circle, made up of oilmen than of taking care of national security? His silence on taking out North Korea is deafening and gives intelligent people reason to believe that this is the case. Deafening? Maybe you should read up on current news a bit. I hear his
Really? Could you cite the news article where Dumbya has threatened war against North Korea if they don’t dismantle their nuclear plants or submit to inspection, as he did with Saddam? I see Rumsfeld has made some inane comments, but Dumbya has yet to threaten. Methinks you might have some creative hearing. Alan
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. You forget that Clinton was the one who gave North Korea the nuclear technology to begin with, dipshit. You need to review what President Clinton actually did and you additionally need to have some degree of understanding of nuclear capacity. First of all, President Clinton agreed to allow the North Koreans to purchase the materials to construct a nuclear plant for the generation of electricity, with the understanding that those plants would be monitored and not used to generate enriched uranium.
BS The plant they have does generate enriched uranium, the seals on the ponds they were stored in was just broken and the monitoring cameras removed. To this date, that had indeed been the case. There is a difference between selling the Koreans the materials, which was done and selling them the technology to manufacture the items, which was never done. The technology to remove and enrich uranium and plutonium from the mass of all isotopes was never sold, and to this day, that process is closely guarded.
That is why their core and storage ponds HAD cameras on them. So your obvious lack of understanding of technological processes contributes to your failure to interpret the events in proper context.
Technical processes have nothing to do with it. Now, the Koreans have told us, through their removal of the monitoring devices, that they plan to begin to enrich uranium, through technology which their own scientists have obviously "rediscovered." That process and concommittant independent discovery by Communist scientists could never have been stopped. And that, is not the fault of Clinton or of Dumbya. It just is a natural sequence of events.
With the enriched uranium that Klinton and his cronies agreed to allow to the Koreans via agreeing with them that development extraction etc does not proceed. What is interesting, is that the threat by North Korea is far greater than that posed by Saddam Hussein, yet Dumbya continues to take us towards a war with Iraq, with hardly a word about the far greater threat. Could it be that Dumbya, in his zeal to prosecute the only thing that he is good at( making war ) has more to do with keeping Republicans in power and of obtaining cheap oil to bolster the profits of his inner circle, made up of oilmen than of taking care of national security? His silence on taking out North Korea is deafening and gives intelligent people reason to believe that this is the case.
Deafening? Maybe you should read up on current news a bit. I hear his Cliff
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( previous post snipped-follow thread ) That’s right – blame it all on clinton. Why not? It was his fault in the first place. Wrong. Clinton did nothing more than sell them a nuclear reactor to be used for the generation of electricity with the promise that they WOULD NOT pursue further "research" in this area. His promise was backed up by UN monitoring devices to keep them honest. "Promise." There’s your first problem. "Backed up by UN monitoring." There’s your second problem.
What "problems?" If you bothered to read the thread you would have discovered that the previous poster said that it was all Clinton’s falut. I merely corrected him by posting the events as the record indicates. "Clinton…sell." There are a few more problems. It’ll be decades before the world recovers from the sneaky self-serving things that cocksucker did.
Yes, like giving the nation the first budget surplus we had in nearly 40 years. Problems like that, we’ll deal with anytime. When you get beyond hatred, you generally get the ability to evaluate events as they impact, without the cloud of preconceived beliefs. You would do well to try that. Never believe Communists and other liberals, and never rely on the UN.
There’s your hatred clouding your ctirical thinking abilities again. And hatred leads to suspicion, qualities which apparently you exhibit in abundance. People who are not burdened with your problems can take a more ven strain and a more reasoned approach. Had Clinton not sold them the reactor, they would have pursued their research on their own, likely developed the technology they now have, but many years earlier, and precipitated the crisis which now exists for your friend, Reactionary Ronnie to handle. Do you really think they ever actually stopped doing research?
You of course have evidence that they did not? I would be pleased to have you cite it. But if that’s your suspicious nature talking, I’m afraid we have to dismiss it. How fucking stupid are you? No, don’t even bother.
A whole lot less than you. I don’t need to retreat to profanity and personal insult to make my case. But of course, if you had anything of substance, other than your flaming emotional appeal, likely you’d post it. Pity you do not. (Uh, if you’re referring to Ronald Regan, he hasn’t been President for some time now.)
Quite correct. And judging how he handled Iran-Contra, I don’t think he would have done so well. People should not do drugs and get on the Internet.
When are you leaving? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FAct remains that america had no problems with NK until the psycho bush came along. Fact of the matteis is that you have no clue, little girl. Stop believing everything you read in alt.activism, and try to broaden your sources a bit. While we really can’t blame Dumbya for this, and we really can’t say we had no problems with the North Koreans prior to him, we must wait to see how he handles this. And given his name, Dumbya, I’m not very optimistic. Alan And anyone who chooses a small meaningless Europeon country for a screen name can’t be all the bright. Regards, PLMerite
More personal insult? Is your ego THAT shallow? "Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. And Evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
and evil is certainly not overcome by fear and suspicion. Alan
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact.
Ha… That’s a good one……Everything was perfect….. while the Koreans were building nukes under Klintons nose he was getting a blow job….now that’s what I call perfect. Where do you guys come up with this stuff, I mean if you were ever to say anything believable I would give you some credit……so far your rants are nothing more than lunacy and promply dismissed as such. Cliff Howard
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Ha… That’s a good one……Everything was perfect….. while the Koreans were building nukes under Klintons nose he was getting a blow job….now that’s what I call perfect. Where do you guys come up with this stuff, I mean if you were ever to say anything believable I would give you some credit……so far your rants are nothing more than lunacy and promply dismissed as such.
Judy, here, thinks that Martin Sheen is the real President of the US.
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact.
Bill Clinton allowed the north Koreans to continue to work on Nuclear Weapons without any oversight or confirmation of their actions. All the while paying them in oil, for perceived good behavior. Does this mean we get our oil back? — ""Sic Semper Tyrannis" – Thus Always with Tyrants – John Wilkes Booth" "Per ardua nec flectitur nec mutat. Confido, est voluntas dei, invictus maneo. Addere leci justitiam deo certavi et vici." – Rev. Shawn Cole, Cole Firearms Inc.
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It never ends does it?.
No, your delusions only multiply.
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another.
It is so much better than Billy’s clean up lies. John P. Tarver, MS/PE
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Bill Clinton allowed the north Koreans to continue to work on Nuclear Weapons without any oversight or confirmation of their actions. All the while paying them in oil, for perceived good behavior. Does this mean we get our oil back? That’s right – blame it all on clinton. FAct remains that america had
Not all, just most. The North Koreans were the conmen and he was the mark… unless he was taking money to look the other way. no problems with NK until the psycho bush came along. Just one catastrophe after another under bush.
It’s no surprise that an anti-Semitic imbecile like you wouldn’t consider getting suckered into a deal that the other side never had any intention of abiding by a "problem". But have no fear, you’ll find a way to blame "the Jews(TM)". — Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Bill Clinton allowed the north Koreans to continue to work on Nuclear Weapons without any oversight or confirmation of their actions. All the while paying them in oil, for perceived good behavior. Does this mean we get our oil back?
That’s right – blame it all on clinton. FAct remains that america had no problems with NK until the psycho bush came along. Just one catastrophe after another under bush. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. Ha… That’s a good one……Everything was perfect….. while the Koreans were building nukes under Klintons nose he was getting a blow job….now that’s what I call perfect.
So they’re building nukes? America has 10,000 nukes. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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It never ends does it?. Since bush stole the WH it’s been one problem after another. Hard to believe that just two years ago everything was perfect. All these crises are gonna cause a world wide depression eventually. That’s a fact. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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Question:
TURN $6 INTO $6000 – NO JOKE THIS IS A MESSAGE THAT I FOUND THAT I THOUGHT MAY INTEREST YOU A BIT. TAKE A MINUTE TO READ OVER IT,AND IF YOU’LL FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS YOU WILL LEARN FIRSTHAND HOW TO TURN $6 INTO $6000! "HOW TO TURN $6 INTO $6,000!!!!!! READING THIS COULD CHANGE YOUR LIFE! I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it. A little while back, I was browsing through newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00! So I thought, Yeah right, this must be a scam,but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send $1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands) No catch, that was it. So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about trying it. I figured: what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00, right? Then I invested the measly $6.00. Well GUESS WHAT!!… within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about $25.00. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over $1,000.00! In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it’s still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it’s still coming in rapidly. It’s certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I have spent more than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, why it works….Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more money than you thought possible by doing something so easy! Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully! (Print it out or download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come in! It’s easy. It’s legal. And, your investment is only $6.00 (Plus postage) IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it is virtually no risk – it really works!!!! If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends. PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it’s a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However, the money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is made from people like you and me asking to be included in that list. Here are the 4 easy steps to success: STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper; PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST. Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Next, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: Mailing Adresses : Ross Wilson 202 Belmont Dr. Thibodaux, LA 70301 Richard Horman 1731 Frost Ave. Maplewood, MN 55109 Nathan Recchione 416 Snowbreeze Ct. Roseville, CA 95747 Andrew K. 11251 s. State Street Apt.#1-105 Sandy, UT 84070 Pat Fiscus 16228 N. 71 st Avenue Peoria, AZ 85382 Juan Angel 39685 Via Las Palmas Murrieta, CA 92563 STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc…) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close to 24,000 groups) All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make! This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money, you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are of integrity, the program will continue and the money that so many others have received will come your way. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the $1 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of dollars in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 ($1.00 for each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you’re in business! not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the bottom of this document, and select ‘copy’ from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computer’s memory. Step 2) Open a blank ‘notepad’ file from your ‘accessories’ list and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the ‘edit’ menu select ‘paste’. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list. Step 3) Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in different settings, you’ll always have this file to go back to. Step 4) Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.) Step 5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post message button. You’re done with your first one! Congratulations…THAT’S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** That’s it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** Now the WHY part: Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is: do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday?, JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So, can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so… People have said, "e;what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual internet. Remember: play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work." THIS REALLY DOES WORK! JUST MAKE SURE YOU SEND THE ENVELOPES AND POST YOUR MESSAGES W/IN 7 DAYS. THE REASON I SAY TO DO THAT IS BECAUSE IF YOU WAIT LONGER THAN A WEEK THEN THE CHANCES OF YOU EVER DOING IT ARE SLIM TO NONE. REMEMBER-IF YOU … read more »
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Just thought I’d post a quick followup that Echols was sentenced to 150 days for the probation violation, and his trial on the weenie-wagging at law enforcement charge will start on the 19th. News you won’t see posted on his website at http://www.shadow-net.com/ I wonder who will be taking care of his extensive pee bottle collection while he is incarcerated? Perhaps Noreen Gosch can store it aboard her UFO. Snicker. Anyone remember Mike Echols, the Bible thumping nutjob who fancies himself a foe of pedophilia, and runs around putting the names of Internet posters on his "official" Internet Child Sex Predator list? Well, while out on probation for threatening to commit terrorist acts against the California Transit System, the rotund one got himself in trouble again, in two separate pants-dropping incidents, one involving a bus, which he is banned from going near as a condition of probation, and the other involving alleged "genitalia waving" at a cop.
– Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
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Anyone remember Mike Echols, the Bible thumping nutjob who fancies himself a foe of pedophilia, and runs around putting the names of Internet posters on his "official" Internet Child Sex Predator list? Well, while out on probation for threatening to commit terrorist acts against the California Transit System, the rotund one got himself in trouble again, in two separate pants-dropping incidents, one involving a bus, which he is banned from going near as a condition of probation, and the other involving alleged "genitalia waving" at a cop. Oh, the horror. 
Looks like Mike Echols will be having a gay Christmas behind bars. Can you believe this guy is incorporated as an IRS 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization? http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/local/4680079.htm I think the following exerpt from this news story says it all. "After being cited for trespassing and obstructing an officer, Echols was transported to the edge of the Fort Ord property and released, according to Officer John Chapman. At that point, Chapman testified, Echols dropped his pants and waved his genitalia at him." I’m sure the poor officer will spend years in therapy getting over this horrible experience. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
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Question:
I can imagine Outcast chuckling away to himself as he wrote yet another of his epics in support of Sri Chinmoy. I am not sure why Outcast chose to write a rather defamatory story in this style because his previous replies to Jill and her friends have been on a higher plane and worthy of inclusion in any serious discussion about Sri Chinmoy. My story, however, is harmless fun, and does not impugn anyone by name.
I felt duty bound to point out to you that informed people might recognise very real people that you are talking about. It might seem like "harmless fun" to you, but several people have said to me that in their opinion, your post certainly does not come into this category. When an audience can recognise real situations and real people in a so-called funny "anonymous" story, then as much care is needed in writing the story as would be exercised if the situations and people were actually named. And yet when I let off a little harmless steam with an allegorical tale designed primarily to amuse, I’m accused of defamation (against whom?). But then, the anti-cult movement is not exactly known for its rollicking sense of humour…
If you read my post carefully, I merely said that "many people find it extremely hard to believe in Sri Chinmoy’s view that he has extraordinary powers and that he can even tell us in great detail exactly what happens to our souls when we die. His claim that he is the world’s greatest weightlifter has been proved to be deceitful and untrue." I would make the same comments about ANYONE who tried to impress young people with such claims. For example, if a weightlifter who is setting up a body-building business said that he could lift 7063 pounds with one arm, when the official world record for a two-armed lift is only about 600 pounds, there would be an official enquiry made under Consumer laws to see if such a claim was true. However, because Sri Chinmoy made this outrageous claim, "Outcast" seems to think that anyone who questions it is guilty of "hate speech" and "religious bigotry". We live in a world where people are trained to think critically and to look carefully into the claims made by people who are trying to recruit people into their groups, no matter what types of groups these may be. Although Sri Chinmoy may have many positive attributes and grateful devotees, he must realise that any claims of extraordinary powers are always likely to be investigated closely by the world. This is because of the nature of the extraordinary claims, and not because Sri Chinmoy is a spiritual leader, or because the people investigating the claims belong to the so-called "anti-cult" movement. –outcast235* *I am not a member of Sri Chinmoy Centre and do not speak for Sri Chinmoy.
Similarly, I am not a member of the anti-cult movement, or any other group of people who may be involved with the discussion about Sri Chinmoy. Jennifer
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The News Will Get Us Killed by tack I hadn’t felt angry yet. I hadn’t felt anything at all. I know from studying data security that signals intelligence is delicate. You don’t say why or how you know something, just that you do. Example: Say I’m listening to your phone calls. I find out that you’re going to rob a bank, and I tell my boss. If he goes and blabs what he knows to the press, and includes a joke you told on the phone, you’re going to know that you’re phone is bugged. You will stop using it, and we can no longer snoop upon you. So when I sat there watching TV. Taking in the constant news feed, and the news anchor said that the prime suspect was Osama Bin Laden because of reported "Communications Intercepts" I became livid. We’re trying to track the fucker down, and foolio in makeup tells the terrorists, indirectly, exactly what is bugged, who’s using it, and what he said. Fat chance we’ll catch them now. When the next attack happens, blame CBS. They compromised our means of early warning. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gur Ubefrsyl naq gur Ubyl Zna favc Guvf jergpurq frnthyy, hayhpxl va ybir, naq hayhpxl va gur fcvevghny yvsr, gevrq frireny qvssrerag fcvevghny cuvybfbcuvrf nsgre yrnivat gur znfgre’f nfuenz, ohg abar bs gurz rire ernyyl fngvfsvrq ure. Fur pbhyq abg fgvpx jvgu gurz, naq fur pbhyq abg sbetrg ure tehqtr ntnvafg gur znfgre sbe guebjvat ure bhg bs uvf nfuenz. Fb tenqhnyyl fur jbexrq bhg n cyna jvgu gur xvqanccref. Fur jbhyq gryy rirelbar ure fgbel nobhg ubj gur znfgre jnf gnxvat lbhat tveyf bhg bs fpubby naq gheavat gurz vagb uvf frk fynirf. favc V jbhyq gnxr n ebhtu thrff naq fhttrfg guvf irel jrnx, ybat naq obevat fgbel znl or nobhg fbzr rk-qvfpvcyrf bs gur Theh Fev Puvazbl Xhzne Tubfr. V pna vzntvar Bhgpnfg puhpxyvat njnl gb uvzfrys nf ur jebgr lrg nabgure bs uvf rcvpf va fhccbeg bs Fev Puvazbl. V nz abg fher jul Bhgpnfg pubfr gb jevgr n engure qrsnzngbel fgbel va guvf fglyr orpnhfr uvf cerivbhf ercyvrf gb Wvyy naq ure sevraqf unir orra ba n uvture cynar naq jbegul bs vapyhfvba va nal frevbhf qvfphffvba nobhg Fev Puvazbl. Ubjrire, V srry gung Bhgpnfg unf fhax gb arj ybjf va uvf batbvat qrongr jvgu Wvyy. Bhgpnfg’f ubefrsyl fgbel vf abg rira fyvtugyl shaal naq vg freirf bayl gb fgeratgura gur pnfr bs gubfr jub unir n trahvar tevrinapr ntnvafg Fev Puvazbl. Znal crbcyr svaq vg rkgerzryl uneq gb oryvrir va Fev Puvazbl’f ivrj gung ur unf rkgenbeqvanel cbjref naq gung ur pna rira gryy hf va terng qrgnvy rknpgyl jung unccraf gb bhe fbhyf jura jr qvr. Uvf pynvz gung ur vf gur jbeyq’f terngrfg jrvtugyvsgre unf orra cebirq gb or qrprvgshy naq hagehr. Nygubhtu Fev Puvazbl znl unir cebivqrq fcvevghny vafcvengvba gb fbzr bs uvf qvfpvcyrf, uvf zvfgnxra oryvrs gung ur unf vaperqvoyr rkgenbeqvanel cbjref graqf gb haqrezvar uvf cbfvgvba pbafvqrenoyl. Abj gung Fev Puvazbl’f znva fhccbegre unf syvccrq uvf yvq naq jevggra uvf ubefrsyl fgbel, nal frevbhf-zvaqrq crefba pna abj frr pyrneyl jung unccraf gb gubfr jub oryvrir va gur vaperqvoyr jbeyq bs Fev Puvazbl.
Response:
I can imagine Outcast chuckling away to himself as he wrote yet another of his epics in support of Sri Chinmoy. I am not sure why Outcast chose to write a rather defamatory story in this style because his previous replies to Jill and her friends have been on a higher plane and worthy of inclusion in any serious discussion about Sri Chinmoy.
I try and please all tastes. If you prefer my more serious posts, you can always revisit: The great thing about allegory is that people can apply it to their varied human experience. You may feel it applies to one situation, someone else may feel it applies to another. I definitely was chuckling when I wrote parts of The Horsefly and the Holy Man. Like Homer Simpson, I opined to myself: "It’s funny cause it’s true!" My story, however, is harmless fun, and does not impugn anyone by name. In this respect, it differs from the bial-filled rants which some anti-cult therapists encourage their patients to post on the Internet. There is even one elderly Christian gentleman from New Zealand who has posted anti Sri Chinmoy material in misc.activism.militia. If my piece is a bit edgy in places, you have to understand that it satirizes the type of true confession stories which are published (with perfect seriousness) by the anti-cult movement. When cleaning up the messes left by other people, one is sometimes forced to touch dirt. Your criticism smacks of a double standard. People who have some mean-spirited grudge against Sri Chinmoy are encouraged to write pages and pages of nonsense attacking him by name, using a variety of colorful expletives, comparing him to Hitler and Osama Bin Laden, and egging on the majority to act with the worst kind of bigotry toward a religious minority. And yet when I let off a little harmless steam with an allegorical tale designed primarily to amuse, I’m accused of defamation (against whom?). But then, the anti-cult movement is not exactly known for its rollicking sense of humour… Hate speech and religious bigotry hurt real people. Although I am not a member of Sri Chinmoy Centre, just because I still have some love for Sri Chinmoy I have suffered emotionally. At times I am really sickened by these attacks on someone whom I know to be a deeply good and spiritual person. Many people suffer far more tangibly than I. Here is a quote from hearings held on discrimination against spiritual minorities in France: http://www.coordiap.com/Gtemo04.htm Testimony # 22 Marseilles, 29 March, 2000 Assani and Paule are members of an organization that promotes peace. They have been refused permission to hold events in public places. We belong to "Le Centre Sri Chinmoy." We organize cultural activities, concerts, sporting events, races — always on the theme of peace — where we never do any proselytizing. We’ve lived in France for 25 years and have been subjected to pressures and attacks from ADFI in France and the GEMPPI (a group that investigates various philosophical groups) in Marseilles. In October 1997, our association got an authorization to hold a concert at the Italian Cultural Institute. Two days before the concert, we received a letter stating "In agreement with the Italian General Consulate, I would like to inform you that the hall will not be available due to a lack of personnel." I met with the Consul and he told me he had received a phone call telling him our association was on a the list of cults, and so couldn’t accommodate us. In 1995, we invited a group of Swiss musicians to the Sainte Trinit
Question:
ROFLMAO! This is great! LOL
I am so glad to have put a spark of good chair in the heart of a kindred soul. — Zeke for Gay President, 2004: http://www.gay-bible.org/index.html#TOP2
Response:
I don’t get it
You don’t? Then my dear, you are in urgent need of major triage. Immediately procede to my Magicke Website and wait for instructions there: http://www.gay-bible.org I love animals I’ve eaten lots!!!
Then Lot must have a bone to pick with you. Really. Vote for me in zero-zero three! — Zeke for Gay President, 2004: http://www.gay-bible.org/index.html#TOP2
Response:
ROFLMAO! This is great! LOL
So…I got your vote, right? If not, my new-fangled CyberVotingBox will take of everything for you, right from the comfort of your own home: Zeke for Gay President, 2004: http://www.gay-bible.org/index.html#TOP2
Response:
in message
ROFLMAO! This is great! LOL I am so glad to have put a spark of good chair in the
heart of a kindred soul. hehehehe.. yeah.. a spark of good chair.. that should do it.. P
Response:
ROFLMAO! This is great! LOL So…I got your vote, right? If not, my new-fangled CyberVotingBox will take of everything for you, right from the comfort of your own home: Zeke for Gay President, 2004: http://www.gay-bible.org/index.html#TOP2
Of course I voted. For you. Still grinning, and wishing I could write as well and as exuberantly as you do…You know, if *only* I had your staying power, my own book would be finished now. As it is, still slogging thru the re-write….I’ll let ya know when it’s done. But only half the people in it are gay… Still f**king around,horses and all FLORA (whose cats could prolly write faster, if they had thumbs)
Response:
Of course I voted. For you.
Vote as often as you want, as many times as you want. On my site, YOUR VOTE COUNTS, each and every time! Yeah baby! Still grinning, and wishing I could write as well and as exuberantly as you do…
Oh, gee, thanks for such a kind compliment. It is with a great sense of fulfillment, that my fingers dance across the keyboard, kicking up fairy dust along the way. You know, if *only* I had your staying power, my own book would be finished now.
I don’t think staying power has anything to do with it. More like a fountain of inspiration that suddenly gushes forth and I can’t stop it. Some of the spillover is in my writing. As it is, still slogging thru the re-write….I’ll let ya know when it’s done. But only half the people in it are gay…
I can overlook that. Please do tell me when your first book is available for public consumption, Flora. May you write well, and write many more books, for many, many joyful years. (whose cats could prolly write faster, if they had thumbs)
If cats had thumbs, humans would be long extinct. — Lavender-Velvet Revolution http://surf.to/gaybible
Response:
hehehehe.. yeah.. a spark of good chair.. that should do it.. P
Caught that one did you? Clever little pup you are! — Lavender-Velvet Revolution http://surf.to/gaybible
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t get it You don’t? Then my dear, you are in urgent need of major triage. Immediately procede to my Magicke Website and wait for instructions there: http://www.gay-bible.org I love animals I’ve eaten lots!!! Then Lot must have a bone to pick with you. Really. Vote for me in zero-zero three! What has this got to do with the Druidic religion? Nothing, so go away. Nik
Could you please stick your anal retension up it’s appropriate orifice! Lush’
Response:
I don’t get it — I love animals I’ve eaten lots!!!
ROFLMAO! This is great! LOL F
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To: My Loyal Readers who are also Loyal Patriots I thought the good folks of these gay and activist news groups would enjoy my interjecting my very exasperated feelings about Ezekiel Krahlin’s dangerous intrusion into national politics…due to the absurd ruckus he is able to stir up by his uncanny ability to manipulate the English language. And apparantly, that’s the only gift he has. He’s a one-trick pony. Nonetheless, if this lunatic charms too many people he can wind up being a dangerous marriage of Svengali and Hitler! If I had access to only one child-guard Internet program, and it could only do one thing…I’d want more than anything else, for it to block Mr. Krahlin’s site from ever seeing the light of day in the presence of an innocent child’s eyes. All of whom we know would grow up STRAIGHT as an arrow if subversive geeks like "Zekers" wouldn’t amuse themselves by thinking the world is their plaything, and that terrorizing people is a fun way of winning a point. And it is this citizen’s desperate appeal for a massive overhaul of the Internet antipornography laws, that opened my eyes to this menace who claims copyright over The Final Testament, which he claims to be the next bible to usurp the previous two! See what happens when you pervert the definition of free speech to accommodate limosine-liberal bleeding hearts, by including "Gay-bonics" under the Free-Speech umbrella.: —begin letter: Dear Editor, I recently logged onto an, ahem, interesting (so to speak) website, "gay-bible.org", run by some harmless lunatic who makes a whopping big deal that he is gay, only because an unabashadly glamarous Marine once paid him some attention for a short, short while. Well, his heterophobic ranting scrolls are funny I must admit, but I’m afraid we’re all laughing AT you, Ezekiel, not WITH you. But one particular rant you unravelled across my monitor really made me wake up and smell the Sanka: "Learn how you can prepare for the Global Civil War, yet still manage to show up fashionably late!" I hope after reading my outraged letter, you will seriously consider removing that one especially hurtful screed, when there is so much you could gain by that simple self-censorship. And please: we’ve all suffered more than enough "slippery-slope" maniac posturing idiot conspiracy theorists–including gays like Tom Keske–to last us all many, many lifetimes. Well, Ezekiel, you may have intended your smug know-it-all hybrid hippie/queer title to be a facetious comment undesirous of an answer…so sure are you of your Righteous Gay Benevolence. But, Ezekiel, I DO have an answer, even if you DON’T want to hear it. And I am going to SHOUT that answer from every rooftop of my loyal America (or as you so treasonously enjoy calling God’s Country "Amerika"!) Through the telegraph, the telephone, the newspaper, and the new-fangled radio…I will SHOUT that answer over and over again, until it permeates even THAT thick skull of yours. So Mr. Krahlin, here is my answer to your snide challenge, and a very terse answer at that: "Get shot for treason." A Patriot of Texas, Arnold B. Gassman Professional Taxidermist, Class Xcellent (Specializing in the art and preservation of runaway Mexican immigrants) —end of letter — Zeke for Gay President, 2004: http://www.gay-bible.org/index.html#TOP2
Response:
To: My Loyal Readers who are also Loyal Patriots I thought the good folks of these gay and activist news groups would enjoy my interjecting my very exasperated feelings about Ezekiel Krahlin’s dangerous intrusion into national politics…due to the absurd ruckus he is able to stir up by his uncanny ability to manipulate the English language. And apparantly, that’s the only gift he has. He’s a one-trick pony. Nonetheless, if this lunatic charms too many people he can wind up being a dangerous marriage of Svengali and Hitler! If I had access to only one child-guard Internet program, and it could only do one thing…I’d want more than anything else, for it to block Mr. Krahlin’s site from ever seeing the light of day in the presence of an innocent child’s eyes. All of whom we know would grow up STRAIGHT as an arrow if subversive geeks like "Zekers" wouldn’t amuse themselves by thinking the world is their plaything, and that terrorizing people is a fun way of winning a point. And it is this citizen’s desperate appeal for a massive overhaul of the Internet antipornography laws, that opened my eyes to this menace who claims copyright over The Final Testament, which he claims to be the next bible to usurp the previous two! See what happens when you pervert the definition of free speech to accommodate limosine-liberal bleeding hearts, by including "Gay-bonics" under the Free-Speech umbrella.: —begin letter: Dear Editor, I recently logged onto an, ahem, interesting (so to speak) website, "gay-bible.org", run by some harmless lunatic who makes a whopping big deal that he is gay, only because an unabashadly glamarous Marine once paid him some attention for a short, short while. Well, his heterophobic ranting scrolls are funny I must admit, but I’m afraid we’re all laughing AT you, Ezekiel, not WITH you. But one particular rant you unravelled across my monitor really made me wake up and smell the Sanka: "Learn how you can prepare for the Global Civil War, yet still manage to show up fashionably late!" I hope after reading my outraged letter, you will seriously consider removing that one especially hurtful screed, when there is so much you could gain by that simple self-censorship. And please: we’ve all suffered more than enough "slippery-slope" maniac posturing idiot conspiracy theorists–including gays like Tom Keske–to last us all many, many lifetimes. Well, Ezekiel, you may have intended your smug know-it-all hybrid hippie/queer title to be a facetious comment undesirous of an answer…so sure are you of your Righteous Gay Benevolence. But, Ezekiel, I DO have an answer, even if you DON’T want to hear it. And I am going to SHOUT that answer from every rooftop of my loyal America (or as you so treasonously enjoy calling God’s Country "Amerika"!) Through the telegraph, the telephone, the newspaper, and the new-fangled radio…I will SHOUT that answer over and over again, until it permeates even THAT thick skull of yours. So Mr. Krahlin, here is my answer to your snide challenge, and a very terse answer at that: "Get shot for treason." A Patriot of Texas, Arnold B. Gassman Professional Taxidermist, Class Xcellent (Specializing in the art and preservation of runaway Mexican immigrants) —end of letter — Zeke for Gay President, 2004: http://www.gay-bible.org/index.html#TOP2
Response:
ROFLMAO! This is great! LOL F – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To: My Loyal Readers who are also Loyal Patriots I thought the good folks of these gay and activist news groups would enjoy my interjecting my very exasperated feelings about Ezekiel Krahlin’s dangerous intrusion into national politics…due to the absurd ruckus he is able to stir up by his uncanny ability to manipulate the English language. And apparantly, that’s the only gift he has. He’s a one-trick pony. Nonetheless, if this lunatic charms too many people he can wind up being a dangerous marriage of Svengali and Hitler! If I had access to only one child-guard Internet program, and it could only do one thing…I’d want more than anything else, for it to block Mr. Krahlin’s site from ever seeing the light of day in the presence of an innocent child’s eyes. All of whom we know would grow up STRAIGHT as an arrow if subversive geeks like "Zekers" wouldn’t amuse themselves by thinking the world is their plaything, and that terrorizing people is a fun way of winning a point. And it is this citizen’s desperate appeal for a massive overhaul of the Internet antipornography laws, that opened my eyes to this menace who claims copyright over The Final Testament, which he claims to be the next bible to usurp the previous two! See what happens when you pervert the definition of free speech to accommodate limosine-liberal bleeding hearts, by including "Gay-bonics" under the Free-Speech umbrella.: —begin letter: Dear Editor, I recently logged onto an, ahem, interesting (so to speak) website, "gay-bible.org", run by some harmless lunatic who makes a whopping big deal that he is gay, only because an unabashadly glamarous Marine once paid him some attention for a short, short while. Well, his heterophobic ranting scrolls are funny I must admit, but I’m afraid we’re all laughing AT you, Ezekiel, not WITH you. But one particular rant you unravelled across my monitor really made me wake up and smell the Sanka: "Learn how you can prepare for the Global Civil War, yet still manage to show up fashionably late!" I hope after reading my outraged letter, you will seriously consider removing that one especially hurtful screed, when there is so much you could gain by that simple self-censorship. And please: we’ve all suffered more than enough "slippery-slope" maniac posturing idiot conspiracy theorists–including gays like Tom Keske–to last us all many, many lifetimes. Well, Ezekiel, you may have intended your smug know-it-all hybrid hippie/queer title to be a facetious comment undesirous of an answer…so sure are you of your Righteous Gay Benevolence. But, Ezekiel, I DO have an answer, even if you DON’T want to hear it. And I am going to SHOUT that answer from every rooftop of my loyal America (or as you so treasonously enjoy calling God’s Country "Amerika"!) Through the telegraph, the telephone, the newspaper, and the new-fangled radio…I will SHOUT that answer over and over again, until it permeates even THAT thick skull of yours. So Mr. Krahlin, here is my answer to your snide challenge, and a very terse answer at that: "Get shot for treason." A Patriot of Texas, Arnold B. Gassman Professional Taxidermist, Class Xcellent (Specializing in the art and preservation of runaway Mexican immigrants) —end of letter — Zeke for Gay President, 2004: http://www.gay-bible.org/index.html#TOP2
Response:
Question:
which I am making sure goggle keeps forever : | The incoherent responses in my posts suggest I am on some type of | mood-altering medication. Please try and up the dose d00d | ||||| message |||||| message ||||||| message || || snip |||| |||| If you were a bit more like him you would see the same from me |||| Troll ||| ||| I doubt that, considering the quality of the posts I have seen from ||| you. || || i can do any kind of post that is called for d00d || ||| ||||| All you do is make ignorant wild-ass ||||| claims you can’t back up, then get in the personal attack mode ||||| when you can’t back up your position. The sad part about this is ||||| that you are pulling the same shit you accuse CPS of doing – ||||| unfairly accusing others of crimes. Even sadder part about this ||||| is thay your own demonstrable stupidity and hypocrisy blinds you ||||| to the fact that, for all the whining and wailing you do about ||||| CPS, you’re shooting your own credibility in the foot. |||| |||| I have not talked about CPS lately d00d. You are the only one who |||| keeps whining about it in some mad hope that you can get me angry |||| or something. ||| ||| You haven’t talked about much, that’s true… you have been ||| babbling. || || is this all u have d00d? || ||| However, the point is still valid – if you don’t like unfair ||| accusations made against you, don’t make them yourself. || || PPOR || ||| ||||| Dana, we all know about your problems with CPS, and you certainly ||||| have done your fair share to publicize them in Usenet and on the ||||| Internet. I have no reason to think that you are guilty of child ||||| abuse or incest, and I certainly have no doubt that CPS type tend ||||| to go a bit overboard on their investigations. Therefore, it is ||||| plausible that you are being unfairly targeted and persecuted by ||||| the CPS types. However, how much credibility do you think you’re ||||| going to |||| |||| If you had any sense you would know all that is real old news. It |||| is a ||| page |||| in my life that has been turned a long time ago. ||| ||| And you still haven’t learned from it? Loser. :O| || || and u somehow think called me a names is going to do something on my || end? || ||| ||||| have with the games you regularly play in Usenet? Are people going ||||| to read your claims of innocence and offer their support? |||| |||| I do not need any support. ||| ||| Then stop your whining… || || u were the one whining about it idiot || |||| ||||| Or are they ||||| doing to read your posts and say "That’s the same Dana Phillips ||||| that makes outrageous claims on Usenet, that starts making ||||| personal attacks when he can’t back up his position", and decide ||||| that you have no credibility whatsoever. |||| |||| I do not care about if you see me credible or not. I have a few |||| people in Usenet I will stop and talk to or debate as I have found |||| them worthy over the years. Mr. James is one of those and you are |||| not. ||| ||| Doesn’t break my heart one bit. You gonna take me up on my offer, or ||| are you going to stomp around one minute about how you are allegedly ||| kicking my ass, then launch in a maudlin diatribe with the next post ||| on how you are being persecuted by the Evil Stan? Sounds like you’re ||| on some mood-altering drug, and going through various swings during ||| the day – perhaps you should consult your doctor… || || everybody knows something but u Stan. || || even i can not keep a moron going this long as it sort of passes into || inhumane after a bit. || || i did not find u worthy of a real reply and simply typed your name || into | this || || | http://hugin.sigusr1.org/~pakin/complaint?title=Mr.&firstname=Stan&mi… || e=de&lastname=SD&suffix=&gender=m&shorttype=f&pgraphs=10 || || hit refresh a dozen or so times and conside that my posts to you || ||| ||||| Better start thinking more about what type of crap you post on ||||| Usenet – what goes around, comes around… :O| |||| |||| and I am the one who turns the wheel d00d. ||| ||| Just as I figured… || || u don’t figure and that is the problem d00d || || || — || ITU member in bad standing fer as long as it exists || mhm32×20 Can ya say Meow? || Royal Pain in the Assbasturderr to the Land of Snuh and Meow as well || as Usenet at large. — ITU member in bad standing fer as long as it exists mhm32×20 Can ya say Meow? Royal Pain in the Assbasturderr to the Land of Snuh and Meow as well as Usenet at large.
Response:
The incoherent responses in ths post suggest you are on some type of mood-altering medication.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ||| message |||| message ||||| message |||||| message snip || || If you were a bit more like him you would see the same from me Troll | | I doubt that, considering the quality of the posts I have seen from | you. i can do any kind of post that is called for d00d | ||| All you do is make ignorant wild-ass ||| claims you can’t back up, then get in the personal attack mode when ||| you can’t back up your position. The sad part about this is that you ||| are pulling the same shit you accuse CPS of doing – unfairly ||| accusing others of crimes. Even sadder part about this is thay your ||| own demonstrable stupidity and hypocrisy blinds you to the fact ||| that, for all the whining and wailing you do about CPS, you’re ||| shooting your own credibility in the foot. || || I have not talked about CPS lately d00d. You are the only one who || keeps whining about it in some mad hope that you can get me angry or || something. | | You haven’t talked about much, that’s true… you have been babbling. is this all u have d00d? | However, the point is still valid – if you don’t like unfair | accusations made against you, don’t make them yourself. PPOR | ||| Dana, we all know about your problems with CPS, and you certainly ||| have done your fair share to publicize them in Usenet and on the ||| Internet. I have no reason to think that you are guilty of child ||| abuse or incest, and I certainly have no doubt that CPS type tend to ||| go a bit overboard on their investigations. Therefore, it is ||| plausible that you are being unfairly targeted and persecuted by the ||| CPS types. However, how much credibility do you think you’re going ||| to || || If you had any sense you would know all that is real old news. It || is a | page || in my life that has been turned a long time ago. | | And you still haven’t learned from it? Loser. :O| and u somehow think called me a names is going to do something on my end? | ||| have with the games you regularly play in Usenet? Are people going ||| to read your claims of innocence and offer their support? || || I do not need any support. | | Then stop your whining… u were the one whining about it idiot || ||| Or are they ||| doing to read your posts and say "That’s the same Dana Phillips that ||| makes outrageous claims on Usenet, that starts making personal ||| attacks when he can’t back up his position", and decide that you ||| have no credibility whatsoever. || || I do not care about if you see me credible or not. I have a few || people in Usenet I will stop and talk to or debate as I have found || them worthy over the years. Mr. James is one of those and you are || not. | | Doesn’t break my heart one bit. You gonna take me up on my offer, or | are you going to stomp around one minute about how you are allegedly | kicking my ass, then launch in a maudlin diatribe with the next post | on how you are being persecuted by the Evil Stan? Sounds like you’re | on some mood-altering drug, and going through various swings during | the day – perhaps you should consult your doctor… everybody knows something but u Stan. even i can not keep a moron going this long as it sort of passes into inhumane after a bit. i did not find u worthy of a real reply and simply typed your name into this
http://hugin.sigusr1.org/~pakin/complaint?title=Mr.&firstname=Stan&mi… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – e=de&lastname=SD&suffix=&gender=m&shorttype=f&pgraphs=10 hit refresh a dozen or so times and conside that my posts to you | ||| Better start thinking more about what type of crap you post on ||| Usenet – what goes around, comes around… :O| || || and I am the one who turns the wheel d00d. | | Just as I figured… u don’t figure and that is the problem d00d — ITU member in bad standing fer as long as it exists mhm32×20 Can ya say Meow? Royal Pain in the Assbasturderr to the Land of Snuh and Meow as well as Usenet at large.
Response:
||| message |||| message ||||| message |||||| message snip || || If you were a bit more like him you would see the same from me Troll | | I doubt that, considering the quality of the posts I have seen from | you. i can do any kind of post that is called for d00d | ||| All you do is make ignorant wild-ass ||| claims you can’t back up, then get in the personal attack mode when ||| you can’t back up your position. The sad part about this is that you ||| are pulling the same shit you accuse CPS of doing – unfairly ||| accusing others of crimes. Even sadder part about this is thay your ||| own demonstrable stupidity and hypocrisy blinds you to the fact ||| that, for all the whining and wailing you do about CPS, you’re ||| shooting your own credibility in the foot. || || I have not talked about CPS lately d00d. You are the only one who || keeps whining about it in some mad hope that you can get me angry or || something. | | You haven’t talked about much, that’s true… you have been babbling. is this all u have d00d? | However, the point is still valid – if you don’t like unfair | accusations made against you, don’t make them yourself. PPOR | ||| Dana, we all know about your problems with CPS, and you certainly ||| have done your fair share to publicize them in Usenet and on the ||| Internet. I have no reason to think that you are guilty of child ||| abuse or incest, and I certainly have no doubt that CPS type tend to ||| go a bit overboard on their investigations. Therefore, it is ||| plausible that you are being unfairly targeted and persecuted by the ||| CPS types. However, how much credibility do you think you’re going ||| to || || If you had any sense you would know all that is real old news. It || is a | page || in my life that has been turned a long time ago. | | And you still haven’t learned from it? Loser. :O| and u somehow think called me a names is going to do something on my end? | ||| have with the games you regularly play in Usenet? Are people going ||| to read your claims of innocence and offer their support? || || I do not need any support. | | Then stop your whining… u were the one whining about it idiot || ||| Or are they ||| doing to read your posts and say "That’s the same Dana Phillips that ||| makes outrageous claims on Usenet, that starts making personal ||| attacks when he can’t back up his position", and decide that you ||| have no credibility whatsoever. || || I do not care about if you see me credible or not. I have a few || people in Usenet I will stop and talk to or debate as I have found || them worthy over the years. Mr. James is one of those and you are || not. | | Doesn’t break my heart one bit. You gonna take me up on my offer, or | are you going to stomp around one minute about how you are allegedly | kicking my ass, then launch in a maudlin diatribe with the next post | on how you are being persecuted by the Evil Stan? Sounds like you’re | on some mood-altering drug, and going through various swings during | the day – perhaps you should consult your doctor… everybody knows something but u Stan. even i can not keep a moron going this long as it sort of passes into inhumane after a bit. i did not find u worthy of a real reply and simply typed your name into this http://hugin.sigusr1.org/~pakin/complaint?title=Mr.&firstname=Stan&mi… e=de&lastname=SD&suffix=&gender=m&shorttype=f&pgraphs=10 hit refresh a dozen or so times and conside that my posts to you | ||| Better start thinking more about what type of crap you post on ||| Usenet – what goes around, comes around… :O| || || and I am the one who turns the wheel d00d. | | Just as I figured… u don’t figure and that is the problem d00d — ITU member in bad standing fer as long as it exists mhm32×20 Can ya say Meow? Royal Pain in the Assbasturderr to the Land of Snuh and Meow as well as Usenet at large.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message message message I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. Well, I you whined Now what ya wanted me to say was it? Ya wanted to save face and run but if you run now it is in full view of all who read. and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass. Future? Sounds like Stan is still wanting to run away. Please Stan. Do not run away. Invade alt.liberalminded PLEASE. I tell you what. You invade alt.liberalminded for the rest of the month and then I will make me a new nym and invade it for April. I did that last year btw and it is much fun. I guess when you’re a fat trailer-trash gimp from Hicksville, TN, you make fun where you find it, huh? I am more or less from the same place Mr. James is from. You want to say that about him also? No. He is far more intelligent than you are, and can back up his assertions with facts and logic. If you were a bit more like him you would see the same from me Troll
I doubt that, considering the quality of the posts I have seen from you. All you do is make ignorant wild-ass claims you can’t back up, then get in the personal attack mode when you can’t back up your position. The sad part about this is that you are pulling the same shit you accuse CPS of doing – unfairly accusing others of crimes. Even sadder part about this is thay your own demonstrable stupidity and hypocrisy blinds you to the fact that, for all the whining and wailing you do about CPS, you’re shooting your own credibility in the foot. I have not talked about CPS lately d00d. You are the only one who keeps whining about it in some mad hope that you can get me angry or something.
You haven’t talked about much, that’s true… you have been babbling. However, the point is still valid – if you don’t like unfair accusations made against you, don’t make them yourself. Dana, we all know about your problems with CPS, and you certainly have done your fair share to publicize them in Usenet and on the Internet. I have no reason to think that you are guilty of child abuse or incest, and I certainly have no doubt that CPS type tend to go a bit overboard on their investigations. Therefore, it is plausible that you are being unfairly targeted and persecuted by the CPS types. However, how much credibility do you think you’re going to If you had any sense you would know all that is real old news. It is a page in my life that has been turned a long time ago.
And you still haven’t learned from it? Loser. :O| have with the games you regularly play in Usenet? Are people going to read your claims of innocence and offer their support? I do not need any support.
Then stop your whining… Or are they doing to read your posts and say "That’s the same Dana Phillips that makes outrageous claims on Usenet, that starts making personal attacks when he can’t back up his position", and decide that you have no credibility whatsoever. I do not care about if you see me credible or not. I have a few people in Usenet I will stop and talk to or debate as I have found them worthy over the years. Mr. James is one of those and you are not.
Doesn’t break my heart one bit. You gonna take me up on my offer, or are you going to stomp around one minute about how you are allegedly kicking my ass, then launch in a maudlin diatribe with the next post on how you are being persecuted by the Evil Stan? Sounds like you’re on some mood-altering drug, and going through various swings during the day – perhaps you should consult your doctor… Better start thinking more about what type of crap you post on Usenet – what goes around, comes around… :O| and I am the one who turns the wheel d00d.
Just as I figured…
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message message message I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. Well, I you whined Now what ya wanted me to say was it? Ya wanted to save face and run but if you run now it is in full view of all who read. and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass. Future? Sounds like Stan is still wanting to run away. Please Stan. Do not run away. Invade alt.liberalminded PLEASE. I tell you what. You invade alt.liberalminded for the rest of the month and then I will make me a new nym and invade it for April. I did that last year btw and it is much fun. I guess when you’re a fat trailer-trash gimp from Hicksville, TN, you make fun where you find it, huh? I am more or less from the same place Mr. James is from. You want to say that about him also? No. He is far more intelligent than you are, and can back up his assertions with facts and logic.
If you were a bit more like him you would see the same from me Troll All you do is make ignorant wild-ass claims you can’t back up, then get in the personal attack mode when you can’t back up your position. The sad part about this is that you are pulling the same shit you accuse CPS of doing – unfairly accusing others of crimes. Even sadder part about this is thay your own demonstrable stupidity and hypocrisy blinds you to the fact that, for all the whining and wailing you do about CPS, you’re shooting your own credibility in the foot.
I have not talked about CPS lately d00d. You are the only one who keeps whining about it in some mad hope that you can get me angry or something. Dana, we all know about your problems with CPS, and you certainly have done your fair share to publicize them in Usenet and on the Internet. I have no reason to think that you are guilty of child abuse or incest, and I certainly have no doubt that CPS type tend to go a bit overboard on their investigations. Therefore, it is plausible that you are being unfairly targeted and persecuted by the CPS types. However, how much credibility do you think you’re going to
If you had any sense you would know all that is real old news. It is a page in my life that has been turned a long time ago. have with the games you regularly play in Usenet? Are people going to read your claims of innocence and offer their support?
I do not need any support. Or are they doing to read your posts and say "That’s the same Dana Phillips that makes outrageous claims on Usenet, that starts making personal attacks when he can’t back up his position", and decide that you have no credibility whatsoever.
I do not care about if you see me credible or not. I have a few people in Usenet I will stop and talk to or debate as I have found them worthy over the years. Mr. James is one of those and you are not. Better start thinking more about what type of crap you post on Usenet – what goes around, comes around… :O|
and I am the one who turns the wheel d00d. http://groups.google.com/groups?as_uauthors=Liberalminded&num=100&as_… =d&hl=en
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours.
You’re about as diplomatic as a caged badger in heat, Spammo. You don’t appear to be making a whole lotta friends in the alt.* melange. You need a vacation from yourself….Get a lobotomy, since a barber can’t do much for you. And I notice that you’re waiving the white flag at Liberalminded. This smacks of something that a desparate loser like you would do. At least your *quasi* buddy, Pervert, made me an offer previously that could be taken as much more gentlemanly than your pompous profferings to Liberalminded. Apparently, you gave up any ambition to be considerate when you chose to shun the arts and humanities for the nether world of learning more and more about less and less. You’re you’re so good at *this,* why not try a *free fall* from a C-141B the next time your "in flight" from your superiors at usenet. :O=}
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. You’re about as diplomatic as a caged badger in heat, Spammo. You don’t appear to be making a whole lotta friends in the alt.* melange. You need a vacation from yourself….Get a lobotomy, since a barber can’t do much for you. And I notice that you’re waiving the white flag at Liberalminded. This smacks of something that a desparate loser like you would do. At least your *quasi* buddy, Pervert, made me an offer previously that could be taken as much more gentlemanly than your pompous profferings
I did not see that post. But anything anybody posted would be better than the best of Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to Liberalminded. Apparently, you gave up any ambition to be considerate when you chose to shun the arts and humanities for the nether world of learning more and more about less and less. You’re you’re so good at *this,* why not try a *free fall* from a C-141B the next time your "in flight" from your superiors at usenet. :O=}
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message message Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. Well, I you whined Now what ya wanted me to say was it? Ya wanted to save face and run but if you run now it is in full view of all who read. and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass. Future? Sounds like Stan is still wanting to run away. Please Stan. Do not run away. Invade alt.liberalminded PLEASE. I tell you what. You invade alt.liberalminded for the rest of the month and then I will make me a new nym and invade it for April. I did that last year btw and it is much fun.
I guess when you’re a fat trailer-trash gimp from Hicksville, TN, you make fun where you find it, huh?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message message message message Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. Well, I you whined Now what ya wanted me to say was it? Ya wanted to save face and run but if you run now it is in full view of all who read. and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass. Future? Sounds like Stan is still wanting to run away. Please Stan. Do not run away. Invade alt.liberalminded PLEASE. I tell you what. You invade alt.liberalminded for the rest of the month and then I will make me a new nym and invade it for April. I did that last year btw and it is much fun. I guess when you’re a fat trailer-trash gimp from Hicksville, TN, you make fun where you find it, huh?
I am more or less from the same place Mr. James is from. You want to say that about him also? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. Well, I you whined Now what ya wanted me to say was it? Ya wanted to save face and run but if you run now it is in full view of all who read. and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass. Future? Sounds like Stan is still wanting to run away. Please Stan. Do not run away. Invade alt.liberalminded PLEASE. I tell you what. You invade alt.liberalminded for the rest of the month and then I will make me a new nym and invade it for April. I did that last year btw and it is much fun. I guess when you’re a fat trailer-trash gimp from Hicksville, TN, you make fun where you find it, huh? I am more or less from the same place Mr. James is from. You want to say that about him also?
No. He is far more intelligent than you are, and can back up his assertions with facts and logic. All you do is make ignorant wild-ass claims you can’t back up, then get in the personal attack mode when you can’t back up your position. The sad part about this is that you are pulling the same shit you accuse CPS of doing – unfairly accusing others of crimes. Even sadder part about this is thay your own demonstrable stupidity and hypocrisy blinds you to the fact that, for all the whining and wailing you do about CPS, you’re shooting your own credibility in the foot. Dana, we all know about your problems with CPS, and you certainly have done your fair share to publicize them in Usenet and on the Internet. I have no reason to think that you are guilty of child abuse or incest, and I certainly have no doubt that CPS type tend to go a bit overboard on their investigations. Therefore, it is plausible that you are being unfairly targeted and persecuted by the CPS types. However, how much credibility do you think you’re going to have with the games you regularly play in Usenet? Are people going to read your claims of innocence and offer their support? Or are they doing to read your posts and say "That’s the same Dana Phillips that makes outrageous claims on Usenet, that starts making personal attacks when he can’t back up his position", and decide that you have no credibility whatsoever. Better start thinking more about what type of crap you post on Usenet – what goes around, comes around… :O|
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message message message message Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. Well, I you whined Now what ya wanted me to say was it? Ya wanted to save face and run but if you run now it is in full view of all who read. and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass. Future? Sounds like Stan is still wanting to run away. Please Stan. Do not run away. Invade alt.liberalminded PLEASE. I tell you what. You invade alt.liberalminded for the rest of the month and then I will make me a new nym and invade it for April. I did that last year btw and it is much fun. I guess when you’re a fat trailer-trash gimp from Hicksville, TN, you make fun where you find it, huh?
You poor sorry shit. You just never learn.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself.
Well, I you whined and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message message Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours. the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. Well, I you whined
Now what ya wanted me to say was it? Ya wanted to save face and run but if you run now it is in full view of all who read. and cried, and I offered to cut you a deal. Consider yourself a candidate for a future bitch-slapping the next time you put your foot in your mouth, lardass.
Future? Sounds like Stan is still wanting to run away. Please Stan. Do not run away. Invade alt.liberalminded PLEASE. I tell you what. You invade alt.liberalminded for the rest of the month and then I will make me a new nym and invade it for April. I did that last year btw and it is much fun. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy…
u are saying this knowing I have seen all the posts about how you only know how to lie and twist things? is it fun playing to the audience you create only in your mind? i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you?
come on down. i have pals in aa and i plan on making them in ac. u want to go elsewhere then please do not let me keep you. i also intend to stay in the homeless ng as much as I can as i was a reg there for way too long. i make no deals stan. u want to ignore me then do so. if i see something of yours i want to reply to then i will. u go personal and i will smack your ass down and show the few in usenet who do not already know what a fool u really r. Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours.
the choice is yours and it is one u give yourself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut. this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand.
I understand fully. You came into alt.california making accusations you couldn’t back up, them made a complete ass of yourself trying to avoid the issue YOU raised in the first place. You then decided to get into the personal attack mode, stirring up some other guy (RL) who you had a pissing contest with in the past. That didn’t stop you from going berserk and throwing shit around, but now that some of it has wound up on your face, you start getting all hurt and pissy… i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather.
You want me to leave you alone, Dana? I’ll make a deal with you: I will no longer respond to your posts, or use your name in vain. In addition, I will stay out of alt.liberalminded and alt.prisons. In return, you don’t respond to me, and you make yourself scarce in alt.activism and alt.california. Fair enough with you? Let me know one way or another: all you have to do is answer YES or NO. The choice is yours.
Response:
Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut.
Response:
Don’t like being made fun of, huh? Perhaps you should consider that before you show up here MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF in the future. Meanwhile, go on a diet, and get a haircut.
this is sad. this is all u took from what i posted but then you read it with that closed mind you have so I do understand. i had hopes that maybe you had a bit more going for you than ravage but I am so happy you showed me right now u two are birds of the same feather. well it is your problem and nothing on me thanks for letting me show everyone what you are all about while at the same time removing all the bs you have tried to talk about me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
I noticed by your posts that you and your alter-ego Craig spent the whole day flaming RL on Usenet. Heck, I cleaned up the house, did some shopping, jogged 4.8 miles, worked out at the gym, got back on-line, and in the span of minutes, posted more intellectually stimulating material than you managed to do all day.
Better remove head from ass when ya post d00d. Saturday I did not post one single post all day. This is my 2nd post of the weekend and I do not intend to do many at all today. Unlike you and your pal Ravage I have a full life online. While I am posting during the week I answer the phone for the local animal shelter and on this Saturday that you claim I spent all day flaming RL this is what I was really doing. That is the main list of the group I was very busy with yesterday and have to say I was proud of each and every single one. http://cfapps.knoxnews.com/ksb/bee2002.cfm On this page though I have to say I am very proud of the 5th one listed on that page as he placed 4th in this field of 50. Care to make one of them how bad a parent I am remarks, either Stan or RL? http://cfapps.knoxnews.com/ksb/bee2002.cfm?start=31 On this page is the one who won it here. She was 35th in the nation last year and while my son saw his last year in this she can come back for one more try after this one. I will be watching ESPN to see how she does because next year she may be upset here at home. There were several who showed real promise including a 4th grader that really impressed me. http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_1047083… l BTW i hast no ideals hows he learneded howl to speal lick thatt. BTW it is good that you jogged like that but knowing that I am disabled and most times am confined to very short walks with a cane in hand I would have been more impressed if your macho claims of 4.8 miles had been done ending with a plunge over the nearest straight drop into the pits of hell. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, I know that you have your mental limitations, so I’m not expecting you to come even close to the high standards I set in this NG. However, it IS a known fact that mental acuity improves with physical condition, so you might think about getting off your fat ass next weekend and getting some exercise for a change… Amd, while you’re at it, get a haircut. :O| Talk’s cheap. Takes money to buy whiskey. Costs only a phone call to get somebody you treated like pure shit to come and post her first posts ever. Well that and a old modem I had laying around and I bet some more calling to explain a newsreader to her. It will be all worth it though. Hint: Think of the one gal you would hate for anybody to fnd who knew ya way back when you first became the little Prison Guard that you still are. How long ago was that Ravage? Think enough time has passed for her to have mellowed some? What secret does she carry Ron? NO, you can find her now and talk her into not doing this. She is safe from you d00d and can not be bullied like back in the good old days. This is going to be real fun
Response:
Question:
for turning the El Queso Allstars’ identity over to the notoriously criminal Scientology cult. I got back a snotty reply about how it was all okay because there’s a disclaimer on MP3.COM’s web site that talks about MP3.COM handing over people’s identity to anyone who makes any old claim about copyright violations. I guess any criminal organization can just call MP3.COM up or send them e-mail with a bogus complaint and MP3.COM will just hand over people’s identity. No proof needed. No subpoena. No court order. Just drop a dime and there you go, by all apparent indications. Well that’s what it says right there, brainiac. They told you exactly what the situation was and you just whine and whine when they do what they said they would do.
I’d like to see them sued for willfully handing over people’s identity and residential addresses to known organized crime gangsters with a history of homicide. I doubt that disclaimers on their web site can protect them from being punished for their actions. — Listen to Scientology’s insane "International President" nutter ranting insanely at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice When scientologists are involved it raises the chances of business fraud by about 100 fold. — Human Rights activist Mr. Keith Henson "Commodore Rimjob" available http://crimjob.tripod.com
Response:
Elqueero – WOW! So clever. Accusations of homosexuality are so cutting. I never claimed to be valiant, you wanker – I’m just just mocking idiots. As far as your statement "You people imagine that there must be a convocation of the grand council , redfaced and irate over the shamefulness of what you’ve done, and swearing eternal vengeance upon you." – according to former OSA members – the clams DO report a summary of what has been said about David Miscavige directly to him. Also – you posit the idea of a single person sending an email without remembering that these people only act on orders. Your theory also falls apart in light of the PI investigation of Enturbulator 009 by an agency called ABI here in Phoenix. Kind of throws a monkey wrench into your concept, doesn’t it? I didn’t get swatted – they attacked a year old joke. That the page is gone is no big deal – most of those songs sucked. Enturbulator 009 sounds better, and that site is still up, and the best of the Queso stuff is there. E009’s 10 songs are in the top 15 of the comedy genre at stationmp3.com – tell me how I’m swatted again? I’m not some freak with a persecution complex – I just put everyone on the same page about the possibilities – if you can’t appreciate that, I’m not sorry. I just don’t care. Queso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for turning the El Queso Allstars’ identity over to the notoriously criminal Scientology cult. I got back a snotty reply about how it was all okay because there’s a disclaimer on MP3.COM’s web site that talks about MP3.COM handing over people’s identity to anyone who makes any old claim about copyright violations. I guess any criminal organization can just call MP3.COM up or send them e-mail with a bogus complaint and MP3.COM will just hand over people’s identity. No proof needed. No subpoena. No court order. Just drop a dime and there you go, by all apparent indications. Well that’s what it says right there, brainiac. They told you exactly what the situation was and you just whine and whine when they do what they said they would do. There isn’t anybody doing anything they didn’t say they’d do in the first place. And as for thinking ElQueero is some kind of Valiant Clam Nemesis, let me clue you in on something. The Church of Scientology has thousands of eager lackeys just dying to serve the org in some way, and many of them do so by constantly scanning the web looking for dumbasses using their copyrighted materials in any way detrimental to the Church’s aims and ends. Like ElQueero for instance. You people imagine that there must be a convocation of the grand council , redfaced and irate over the shamefulness of what you’ve done, and swearing eternal vengeance upon you. Fact is, nothing has happened which could not be accomplished by one person sending a couple of emails. ElQueero has been nothing but a gnat and got swatted by a lone emailer. All the rules and warnings were right in front of you and when they stood by their words and did what they said it was just terribly terribly unfair. You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily. And if you act like a dumbass and get nailed for it, use all that whine energy for trying to think of ways to outsmart your dastardly foes, instead of just sickening all your readers with endless babyish complaining.
Response:
Xenu allowed ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com to write: Well if I was so stupid that I deliberately promulgated obscene lies about you while making it possible for you to find out by pushing a few buttons that my name is Kenneth J. DeVries, and I live at 7103 S.E. Cora St., Portland Oregon 97206, yes I would deserve it. But I don’t care if you know that. I have had to deal with people who are so mean and crazy they would FRIGHTEN YOU TO DEATH, I doubt that. Anyone who frightened me that badly would, if they showed up at 235 S. Pine St, York, PA 17405, be met by law enforcement and, later, a process server with an injunction–and if that was not sufficient, something stronger might suffice.
A photograph of Helena Kobrin’s face? It’s like a world _with_ Tony Danza. — Listen to Scientology’s insane "International President" nutter ranting insanely at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice When scientologists are involved it raises the chances of business fraud by about 100 fold. — Human Rights activist Mr. Keith Henson "Commodore Rimjob" available http://crimjob.tripod.com
Response:
Well if I was so stupid that I deliberately promulgated obscene lies about you while making it possible for you to find out by pushing a few buttons that my name is Kenneth J. DeVries, and I live at 7103 S.E. Cora St., Portland Oregon 97206, yes I would deserve it. But I don’t care if you know that. I have had to deal with people who are so mean and crazy they would FRIGHTEN YOU TO DEATH,
I doubt that. Anyone who frightened me that badly would, if they showed up at 235 S. Pine St, York, PA 17405, be met by law enforcement and, later, a process server with an injunction–and if that was not sufficient, something stronger might suffice. The only individuals who *really* frighten me to death are the kind of street thugs with absolutely nothing to lose who would just as soon shoot you as look at you. I’m much less worried about a vastly wealthy corporation–the vastly wealthy corporation has hundreds of millions of dollars to lose should it step *too* far on the wrong side of the law and actually start croaking people (besides its own members). whose idea of fun is to invent insane lies about people and then claim that those people (me, for instance) intend to murder them, so anything anyone could do after that would be like taking a vacation in Cancun.
Jeez. Why not take a look at http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.net from Scientology! It’s a website where they invent insane lies about people and then claim that those people want to murder them. After dealing with people like that, anything after that is like a vacation in Cancun–especially a vacation in Cancun. And if I wrote a song that called you a corpse-felcher I’d be an idiot to think you’d have a sense of humor about it,
The humorlessness of the target is the whole point of the humor. which is what the bonehead in question here did to the head of a notoriously paranoid multinational corporation with thousands of eagerly subservient lackeys and a reputation for fiercely attacking its opponents with psycological warfare and legal action. So who’s the moron? At least I can say conclusively it’s not you.
There was a time in 1995 when this newsgroup (ars) was rmgrouped by Scientology. Half of Usenet showed up personally to thumb their nose at Scientology. Not a one of them, that I am aware of, has been murdered. Scientology only kills its own members–and that through depraved stupidity rather than murderous intent. So I have no fear to state publicly that David Miscavige, the leader of Scientology, is a deranged idiot who goes bugfuck crazy in open court and starts ranting insanely about public buggery. After all, I have the court transcripts to prove it. From the deposition of David Miscavige by Keith Henson and Grady Ward, May 21, 1997 at Palm Springs, California. Case No. CV-96-20207 Northern District of California U.S.C.A. (9th) Docket No. C 98-16994 (*) = David Miscavige, head of the Church of Scientology GW = Grady Ward, deposing David Miscavige under oath "(*): Wait a second, I’d like to note for the record that Mr. Ward here, said he was doing TR 1.1. And I would just like that noted here. That is probably not understandable to someone who is not a Scientologist, but it is definitely an attempt to demean the religion[sic] of Scientology and I’d like that noted for the record. This TR 1.1 refers to a writing by Graham Berry, where he states that he will start up a 1.1 Club, including, qualifications for this for non homosexuals, is that there will be a public buggering of the leaders of Scientology. Buggering of course I think you know that it refers to sodomy and that is I understand what the 1.1 Club is. I think that’s what Mr. Ward was stating that in reference to. I’d also like to state for the record. I believe I’ve taken about a minute to state that and I’m willing to give them an extra minute so that it doesn’t come off their time. "GW: For the record I have no idea why — Yingling: Mr. Ward this is not — "GW: I’m sorry, I do get to respond to that ma’am. He’s accusing me of accusing him of vile words which he has put into the record, which I am shocked that he would put such vile words into the record. But for the record, I’m just looking at him. And he’s the one that asked me what I’m doing and he just said this is TR something. So of course, since I know how much Scientologists are fond of humorous situations, I gave him a humorous answer and I have no idea what he’s talking about Graham Berry’s and other vile words that he said which I’m glad I didn’t put on the record, as he did. "(*): Just so we have a record here and I don’t care to engage in argument and I’d like the record to reflect that we’ve probably both been quite cordial with each other. But in reference to that, as Mr. Ward states, he has no idea what I’m referring to, the reason I was lead to believe that he would know about this is because Mr. Ward – I have seen postings from him, describing the various sexual acts that he has me engaged with various male members of the Scientology religion[sic], attorneys and so forth. And again, I won’t state here what that is, but he has already been ruled to be disgusting by the judge. "Mr. Hart: and let the record reflect that both Mr. Henson and Mr. Ward are snickering GW: Let the record that William M. Hart is not well shaved and he looks like a ruffian and is causing a disruption of the deposition." So that’s Scientology’s main problem. They can do nothing as they are savagely mocked, and amuse everyone with their constipated looks of impotent rage. That’s very nice. They can also viciously attack everyone in sight, and unleash even more savage mockery with their pathetic bellowing. Here’s an example of the latter: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/03/16/1256226&mode=thread In this case, some anonymous coward posted their Xenu story to some Slashdot thread where it would otherwise have been ignored. Instead of just coping, they DMCA’d them and set off that huge thread. Yes, that’s the same Xenu story that they spent over two million bucks suing Arnie Lerma over. They won that case, and got a huge whopping judgment of $2,500. So yes, Scientology is a vastly wealthy bunch of corporations willing to spend millions to silence criticism–their main problem is they generally spend it in really fuckin’ stupid ways. ptsc
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily. [Snip headers] You were saying? Oh gee I’m terrified. You found out my wife’s email. God only knows what horrors will follow. I guess I can expect people out front of my house videotaping me any day now. Pretty unlikely, since I’m not a psycho. Whoop tee doo. You can do what anyone else can do. So if I happened to actually *be* a psycho, and I hunted you down for pissing me off, according to your own (imbecilic) logic, you’d deserve it, because you were so fucking stupid that you outed yourself. After all, you should have been smarter than to piss me off in such a way that I could track you down. Don’t blame me, it’s your own moronic logic. ptsc
Well if I was so stupid that I deliberately promulgated obscene lies about you while making it possible for you to find out by pushing a few buttons that my name is Kenneth J. DeVries, and I live at 7103 S.E. Cora St., Portland Oregon 97206, yes I would deserve it. But I don’t care if you know that. I have had to deal with people who are so mean and crazy they would FRIGHTEN YOU TO DEATH, whose idea of fun is to invent insane lies about people and then claim that those people (me, for instance) intend to murder them, so anything anyone could do after that would be like taking a vacation in Cancun. And if I wrote a song that called you a corpse-felcher I’d be an idiot to think you’d have a sense of humor about it, which is what the bonehead in question here did to the head of a notoriously paranoid multinational corporation with thousands of eagerly subservient lackeys and a reputation for fiercely attacking its opponents with psycological warfare and legal action. So who’s the moron? At least I can say conclusively it’s not you.
Response:
Xenu allowed ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com to write: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily. [Snip headers] You were saying? Oh gee I’m terrified. You found out my wife’s email. God only knows what horrors will follow. I guess I can expect people out front of my house videotaping me any day now. Pretty unlikely, since I’m not a psycho. Whoop tee doo. You can do what anyone else can do. So if I happened to actually *be* a psycho, and I hunted you down for pissing me off, according to your own (imbecilic) logic, you’d deserve it, because you were so fucking stupid that you outed yourself. After all, you should have been smarter than to piss me off in such a way that I could track you down. Don’t blame me, it’s your own moronic logic.
And be sure to put up a web page with a disclaimer about how it’s your policy to hand out people’s identities to known homicidal killers so you can demand it’s not actionable. ptsc
– Listen to Scientology’s insane "International President" nutter ranting insanely at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice When scientologists are involved it raises the chances of business fraud by about 100 fold. — Human Rights activist Mr. Keith Henson "Commodore Rimjob" available http://crimjob.tripod.com
Response:
for turning the El Queso Allstars’ identity over to the notoriously criminal Scientology cult. I got back a snotty reply about how it was all okay because there’s a disclaimer on MP3.COM’s web site that talks about MP3.COM handing over people’s identity to anyone who makes any old claim about copyright violations. I guess any criminal organization can just call MP3.COM up or send them e-mail with a bogus complaint and MP3.COM will just hand over people’s identity. No proof needed. No subpoena. No court order. Just drop a dime and there you go, by all apparent indications.
Well that’s what it says right there, brainiac. They told you exactly what the situation was and you just whine and whine when they do what they said they would do. There isn’t anybody doing anything they didn’t say they’d do in the first place. And as for thinking ElQueero is some kind of Valiant Clam Nemesis, let me clue you in on something. The Church of Scientology has thousands of eager lackeys just dying to serve the org in some way, and many of them do so by constantly scanning the web looking for dumbasses using their copyrighted materials in any way detrimental to the Church’s aims and ends. Like ElQueero for instance. You people imagine that there must be a convocation of the grand council , redfaced and irate over the shamefulness of what you’ve done, and swearing eternal vengeance upon you. Fact is, nothing has happened which could not be accomplished by one person sending a couple of emails. ElQueero has been nothing but a gnat and got swatted by a lone emailer. All the rules and warnings were right in front of you and when they stood by their words and did what they said it was just terribly terribly unfair. You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily. And if you act like a dumbass and get nailed for it, use all that whine energy for trying to think of ways to outsmart your dastardly foes, instead of just sickening all your readers with endless babyish complaining.
Response:
You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily.
whois -h whois.arin.net !netblk-eli-732-207173131 … Millenium Digital (NETBLK-ELI-732-207173131) 11040 Main St Bellevue, WA 98004 US Netname: ELI-732-207173131 Netblock: 207.173.13.1 – 207.173.13.254 Coordinator: 425-451-1151×115 Record last updated on 19-Feb-2002. Database last updated on 7-Mar-2002 19:57:56 EDT. The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Network Information: Networks, ASN’s, and related POC’s. Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related Information and whois.nic.mil for NIPRNET Information. Organization: Soniferous Ether X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.music,alt.slack,alt.true-crime,alt.activism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.173.13.3 Lines: 39 You were saying? ptsc
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily. whois -h whois.arin.net !netblk-eli-732-207173131 … Millenium Digital (NETBLK-ELI-732-207173131) 11040 Main St Bellevue, WA 98004 US Netname: ELI-732-207173131 Netblock: 207.173.13.1 – 207.173.13.254 Coordinator: 425-451-1151×115 Record last updated on 19-Feb-2002. Database last updated on 7-Mar-2002 19:57:56 EDT. The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Network Information: Networks, ASN’s, and related POC’s. Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related Information and whois.nic.mil for NIPRNET Information. Organization: Soniferous Ether X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.music,alt.slack,alt.true-crime,alt.activism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.173.13.3 Lines: 39 You were saying? ptsc
Oh gee I’m terrified. You found out my wife’s email. God only knows what horrors will follow. I guess I can expect people out front of my house videotaping me any day now. Whoop tee doo. You can do what anyone else can do.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily. whois -h whois.arin.net !netblk-eli-732-207173131 … Millenium Digital (NETBLK-ELI-732-207173131) 11040 Main St Bellevue, WA 98004 US Netname: ELI-732-207173131 Netblock: 207.173.13.1 – 207.173.13.254 Coordinator: 425-451-1151×115 Record last updated on 19-Feb-2002. Database last updated on 7-Mar-2002 19:57:56 EDT. The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Network Information: Networks, ASN’s, and related POC’s. Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related Information and whois.nic.mil for NIPRNET Information. Organization: Soniferous Ether X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.music,alt.slack,alt.true-crime,alt.activism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.173.13.3 Lines: 39 You were saying? ptsc
Say, if you really want to help out, why don’t you teach the clambashers the rudiments of identity concealment so they don’t have to get all terrified every time somebody does some perfectly simple thing like you did? Your knowledge could be really useful to some people.
Response:
You clambashers don’t seem to be learning the major lesson in this – if you want to mess with people or organizations, at least be smart enough to do it in a way that they can’t get back at you so easily.
[Snip headers] You were saying? Oh gee I’m terrified. You found out my wife’s email. God only knows what horrors will follow. I guess I can expect people out front of my house videotaping me any day now.
Pretty unlikely, since I’m not a psycho. Whoop tee doo. You can do what anyone else can do.
So if I happened to actually *be* a psycho, and I hunted you down for pissing me off, according to your own (imbecilic) logic, you’d deserve it, because you were so fucking stupid that you outed yourself. After all, you should have been smarter than to piss me off in such a way that I could track you down. Don’t blame me, it’s your own moronic logic. ptsc
Response:
Say, if you really want to help out, why don’t you teach the clambashers the rudiments of identity concealment so they don’t have to get all terrified every time somebody does some perfectly simple thing like you did? Your knowledge could be really useful to some people.
I’ve posted details on using remailers and such repeatedly. It’s really not a reasonable precaution for a lot of people– when someone leaves Scientology, for instance, and has a lot of information, or is actually suing them, there is hardly any point in concealing their identity, since it’s already known. If you’re going to serve web content, there really aren’t many entirely anonymous sources from which to serve streaming content–as El Queso was doing. Mp3.com was simply wrong to turn over that information without a subpoena. The DMCA allows a copyright infringement claimant to get a subpoena on claimed infringing material without even filing a suit, simply by invoking the "Subpoena to identify infringer" clause and swearing under penalty of perjury that the copyright holder (or representative) believes the material to be infringing. If Mp3.com turned over the identity on such grounds, they’d be entirely within their rights–in fact, they’d be legally required to do so. What annoys me is that they didn’t even bother with this legal formality–that puts them afoul of the ECPA. It also puts them in breach of their own TOS and privacy policy, which allows them to disclose identity in "legal process." An email from some nut isn’t legal process. A subpoena is. A subpoena could also conceivably be challenged. Remailers are nice, so are proxies, free dialup accounts, web redirectors in Russia, nym servers, P2P, Freenet, etc. However, there’s no real way to serve streaming content through them. You have to have a provider of some kind. Now you could probably lie and give fake identification to them, but sometimes if you’re going to stand up and criticize something publicly, committing fraud on your ISP is not the best way to go about establishing credibility. Nonetheless, Mp3.com was still wrong–if they had not turned over the ID until getting a DMCA subpoena, they would be completely within the law and immune from liability. If the Scientology legal whores had committed perjury in their subpoena request, or were abusing process by using the DMCA subpoena to get an ID without any intention of ever actually filing suit, they could be sued for doing so– but Mp3.com couldn’t be, having complied in good faith with a valid subpoena. As it is, they opened a whole can of worms, and it’s much easier to sue Mp3.com than it is to sue Scientology. ECPA, even gutted by the USA PATRIOT Act, still offers hefty per violation statutory penalties without even needing to prove damages, and violation of it is a comparatively simple matter of law. Good faith doesn’t even matter if you’re in technical violation. So Mp3.com (unless they actually did get a DMCA subpoena and for some reason aren’t saying so) opened themselves up to a heap of legal liability, when they didn’t even have to. That’s just stupid. The only person here who isn’t legally liable for anything is El Queso–they will never sue for copyright infringement over this in a million years. It’s not SCAMIZDAT, or the OT levels, or anything but a few clearly fair use parody images. As for El Queso, sure, he could have lied in his account signup, and given bogus contact info, whereupon it would have been immediately cancelled at the beginning of all this. It would then merely have taken another few days to get it by finding his real ISP in the httpd logs, then tracking that, getting Caller ID on it if it’s a dialup, and even if that was an unlisted number it’s no big deal for a PI to track it right down to the customer–and even easier to get a subpoena on the phone company. If they had a winning suit, they could even slap him with the costs of hunting him down. So short of going Mission Impossible about it, there’s no easy way of serving streaming content completely anonymously. Sure you can have someone else do it for you, but then *they’re* liable. Queso’s standing up to these fuckers and I don’t see anything particularly stupid about that. Their sleazy back-alley attacks merely make them look like the punks and thugs they are. ptsc
Response:
They didn’t even address in a passing way my complaint except to remove me from their customer base as I demanded. Bastards.
I’ll post my email to them and their response eventually but like you, they didn’t address the central issue: the fact that they handed over someone’s identity and _residential_address_ to a known criminal organization. I could possibly see how they might reasonably identify someone to, say, the Bank of America or Coke A Cola when issued a valid _subpoena_, but to knowingly give someone’s identity and address to an entity with a solid criminal bias simply when asked verges upon the criminal. Hell, MP3.COM probably put up a disclaimer web pages simply to avoid criminal complaints. — Listen to Scientology’s insane "International President" nutter ranting insanely at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice When scientologists are involved it raises the chances of business fraud by about 100 fold. — Human Rights activist Mr. Keith Henson "Commodore Rimjob" available http://crimjob.tripod.com
Response:
for turning the El Queso Allstars’ identity over to the notoriously criminal Scientology cult. I got back a snotty reply about how it was all okay because there’s a disclaimer on MP3.COM’s web site that talks about MP3.COM handing over people’s identity to anyone who makes any old claim about copyright violations. I guess any criminal organization can just call MP3.COM up or send them e-mail with a bogus complaint and MP3.COM will just hand over people’s identity. No proof needed. No subpoena. No court order. Just drop a dime and there you go, by all apparent indications.
I have now gone ahead and done the only thing that matters to the thieving, amoral fux–I have canceled my $20-a-moth "Premium Artist" account. I was leaning that way anyway because the service gets lessened every day, while the artists with agents or managers investing in them (buying up all the prime positions through promotions that were purported to HELP the small artist, yeah RIGHT!; there’s one artist, Amy something, who is number one in the Techno, Rock, Dance, and R&B charts, even though she’s a country singer–THAT’S how corrupt and fucked up it is at mp3.com) are the only people getting anything out of it. Now that this has happened, the camel’s spine has snapped. FUCK ‘EM! I’ll just use ‘em for online storage now. Praise El Queso! "It’s like an all-Hoss hour of Bonanza, It’s like a world without Tony Danza or fans of the pink shit that hits the charts in a world of dead art simultaneous lobotomy and sodomy, we take a moment and we pause to reflect on the pinks that we killed and the planet that we wrecked" and that’s just from memory, PRABOB!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for turning the El Queso Allstars’ identity over to the notoriously criminal Scientology cult. I got back a snotty reply about how it was all okay because there’s a disclaimer on MP3.COM’s web site that talks about MP3.COM handing over people’s identity to anyone who makes any old claim about copyright violations. I guess any criminal organization can just call MP3.COM up or send them e-mail with a bogus complaint and MP3.COM will just hand over people’s identity. No proof needed. No subpoena. No court order. Just drop a dime and there you go, by all apparent indications. In MP3.COM’s reply there was not even the slightest hint of any guilt or ethical wrong doing on their part. The El Queso Allstars can all wake up one morning with their throats cut and the good people at MP3.COM will sleep comfortably in their beds confident in the knowledge that they didn’t do anything wrong by handing over their identities to a notorious criminal organization that gave the United States Operation Snow White, Lisa McPherson, Operation Freakout PC, Speedy Gonzalles, Gene Ingram, Kendrick Moxon, and the rest of the Guardian Office / Office of Special Affairs. And get this: MP3.COM demanded that they couldn’t discuss the issue since that would be a violation of the people’s privacy. The scumbags got a nerve to talk about people’s privacy:-( Nessie. Save the Children: www.taxexemptchildabuse.net http://nessie.psychassualt.org/
They didn’t even address in a passing way my complaint except to remove me from their customer base as I demanded. Bastards. — Starshadow, KoX, SP5, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne) and Goddess of Hypocrisy and Negativity,as crowned by Shirley Wilson "Scientology–Keeping Fraud Working" www.xenu.net
Response:
for turning the El Queso Allstars’ identity over to the notoriously criminal Scientology cult. I got back a snotty reply about how it was all okay because there’s a disclaimer on MP3.COM’s web site that talks about MP3.COM handing over people’s identity to anyone who makes any old claim about copyright violations. I guess any criminal organization can just call MP3.COM up or send them e-mail with a bogus complaint and MP3.COM will just hand over people’s identity. No proof needed. No subpoena. No court order. Just drop a dime and there you go, by all apparent indications. In MP3.COM’s reply there was not even the slightest hint of any guilt or ethical wrong doing on their part. The El Queso Allstars can all wake up one morning with their throats cut and the good people at MP3.COM will sleep comfortably in their beds confident in the knowledge that they didn’t do anything wrong by handing over their identities to a notorious criminal organization that gave the United States Operation Snow White, Lisa McPherson, Operation Freakout PC, Speedy Gonzalles, Gene Ingram, Kendrick Moxon, and the rest of the Guardian Office / Office of Special Affairs. And get this: MP3.COM demanded that they couldn’t discuss the issue since that would be a violation of the people’s privacy. — Listen to Scientology’s insane "International President" nutter ranting insanely at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice When scientologists are involved it raises the chances of business fraud by about 100 fold. — Human Rights activist Mr. Keith Henson "Commodore Rimjob" available http://crimjob.tripod.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for turning the El Queso Allstars’ identity over to the notoriously criminal Scientology cult. I got back a snotty reply about how it was all okay because there’s a disclaimer on MP3.COM’s web site that talks about MP3.COM handing over people’s identity to anyone who makes any old claim about copyright violations. I guess any criminal organization can just call MP3.COM up or send them e-mail with a bogus complaint and MP3.COM will just hand over people’s identity. No proof needed. No subpoena. No court order. Just drop a dime and there you go, by all apparent indications. In MP3.COM’s reply there was not even the slightest hint of any guilt or ethical wrong doing on their part. The El Queso Allstars can all wake up one morning with their throats cut and the good people at MP3.COM will sleep comfortably in their beds confident in the knowledge that they didn’t do anything wrong by handing over their identities to a notorious criminal organization that gave the United States Operation Snow White, Lisa McPherson, Operation Freakout PC, Speedy Gonzalles, Gene Ingram, Kendrick Moxon, and the rest of the Guardian Office / Office of Special Affairs. And get this: MP3.COM demanded that they couldn’t discuss the issue since that would be a violation of the people’s privacy.
The scumbags got a nerve to talk about people’s privacy:-( Nessie. Save the Children: www.taxexemptchildabuse.net http://nessie.psychassualt.org/
Response:
Question:
Louis N Proyect says… Well, in fact this is a newsgroup created in honor of Trotsky. Why are you posting here if you are hostile to the revolution of 1917? For that matter, why are you posting to the Mao newsgroup as well? I wouldn’t post to a Golda Meir newsgroup, out of respect for the participants who think along your lines. It is licentious trolls like yourself who are killing Usenet. Just don’t post your Zionist, anti-Communist crap here. We get our daily fill from the NY Times. Well, what is the point of posting Zionist propaganda to the alt.politics.socialism.trotsky newsgroup? If this is not trolling, then nothing is. Keep your racist politics to yourself or post it to newsgroups in which they are more acceptable.
Allow me to make the usual points in response to your whining, Louis. This is usenet. The fact that Trotsky’s name is associated with APST has nothing to do with whether he will be honored or dishonored here. The name is neutral–until the history is unfolded. The facts are neutral too. They are what they are until the reader draws his conclusions. You want the facts which lead to negative conclusions about the historical figure Leon Trotsky not to see the light of day. Too bad. The Revolution of 1917 was a catastrophe for the Russian people and eventually for the rest of the world. Thoughtful people have an obligation of study the history of such catastrophe’s so as to be best armed not to relive them. That is of an obviously higher order of priority than are your personal sensitivities. You respect no one. This is evident from the fact that you can interact with *no one* without delivering insults. When you speak of "respect for the participants" of newsgroups you simply–and obviously–lie. It is proved beyond reasonable doubt by your personal conduct here. You conflate the fact that your creed is moribund and APST is dominated by anti-Communists with the death of usenet. This is intellectually dishonest. We dominate APST because, as Bert Byfield said recently, the facts are on our side. The truth is on our side. (But then I guess we do have some temperamental, stylistic and experiental advantages too.) You believe that apst should only contain what you want to read. This is the unbridled egotism of a Leninist and it has roots in the history of the movement. It is part of the reason we are here. Besides, your Stalinist anti-Semitism is something to struggle against in and of itself. It too has roots in the history of your movement. It’s too bad you didn’t have the guts to respond to my post on that subject. You were all afraid of it. But you all read it. HW
Response:
That (what follows from Louis) is an excellent example of waffling. And Louis, your left is most definitely not my left. Your left is an anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist – dishonest, untruthful left. Your left lost at the barricades. Your left lost when they tore down the Berlin Wall. Your left lost when the Soviets lost their union. Your left lost when your kids went to fight for the Taliban and support ractionary, fascist, women, Christian, Jew, Hindu, xenophobe, hating outlaw governments which would kill you as fast as it would any other outsider and they won’t ask if you are a leftist because they don’t care.
Well, in fact this is a newsgroup created in honor of Trotsky. Why are you posting here if you are hostile to the revolution of 1917? For that matter, why are you posting to the Mao newsgroup as well? I wouldn’t post to a Golda Meir newsgroup, out of respect for the participants who think along your lines. It is licentious trolls like yourself who are killing Usenet. Just don’t post your Zionist, anti-Communist crap here. We get our daily fill from the NY Times. And, I see you are up to your usual form however; when you get excited you resort to name calling, like "Zionist Troll". Not unexpected Louis……. Now, there you go wasting my time again.
Well, what is the point of posting Zionist propaganda to the alt.politics.socialism.trotsky newsgroup? If this is not trolling, then nothing is. Keep your racist politics to yourself or post it to newsgroups in which they are more acceptable.
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###### # # ####### # # ##### # # ## # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ###### ##### # # # ##### # # # ##### # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # # # # # # # # ####### ## ## ##### | Subscribe or Unsubscribe to PNEWS-L — http://pnews.org/signup.shtml | | (Where TRUTH and HONESTY are more important than political persuasion) | | PNEWS-L ARCHIVES -http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/pnews-l.html | | CURRENT EVENTS, NEWS & ARTICLES – http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml | [Forwarded from the (alt.activism) newsgroups where it was posted. I see MAP is again accepting postings from PNEWS-L - but I don't think MAP is nearly as effective as a conduit as they once were or perhaps still thinks they are and I will not be posting much there in spite of their turn-about...TheGolem] That (what follows from Louis) is an excellent example of waffling. And Louis, your left is most definitely not my left. Your left is an anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist – dishonest, untruthful left. Your left lost at the barricades. Your left lost when they tore down the Berlin Wall. Your left lost when the Soviets lost their union. Your left lost when your kids went to fight for the Taliban and support ractionary, fascist, women, Christian, Jew, Hindu, xenophobe, hating outlaw governments which would kill you as fast as it would any other outsider and they won’t ask if you are a leftist because they don’t care. And, I see you are up to your usual form however; when you get excited you resort to name calling, like "Zionist Troll". Not unexpected Louis……. Now, there you go wasting my time again. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Incredible twisting of logic to consider the Taliban anti-imperalist. Next you’ll be telling us they (the Taliban) are not fascists either What I said is that the 9/11 attacks were directed against imperialism. They were counter-productive, but that’s another story. —– and where were you to object to the anti-imperialism of their alliance with the U.S. against the Soviets — who of course were seeking some progressive utopia because they were "correct" socialists and not socialist-Zionists, like Ben-Gurion and those who founded cooperative communities in Israel and called them Kibbutzim and Moshavim and the Histradrut, which owned most of the means of production in Israel (a bit Islamic radicalism directed against Yugoslavia or the government in Kabul in 1978 was reactionary. On the other hand, it is a very good thing that Hizbollah drove Israel out of Lebanon. — You too are an anti-Semite Louis. I knew that from reading your postings to other lists and your agenda is as bankrupt as your twisted logic. Don’t waste my time. And you have nothing to do with the left, you Zionist troll.
"Members of the left, along with the far larger number of squishy "progressives," have grossly failed to live up to their responsibility to think; rather, they are merely reacting, substituting tired slogans for thought." —– Christopher Hitchens | PNEWS-L – LISTSERV(tm) is a NEWSLETTER with 23 SYMPOSIUM TOPICS | | TURN OFF topics you do not want – SUBMIT ESSAYS – CRITIQUE ARTICLES | | Highest level of *NET SECURITY* ~ Indexing-Digest-Search-Interface | | Topics= ALERTS,HEALTH,INTERNET,OCCULTISM,REFUGEES,VIEWS | | HUMANITY,ANTI-SEMITISM,MISC,TERRORISM,LIBERTIES, | | ZIONISM,WOMEN,EMPIRE,ACTIVISM,CONFLICT,CAPITALISM, | | VIEWS,RHETORIC,LAW.SOCIALISM,LABOR,REVIEWS | | As of December 30th – 2,792 subscribers – On the Internet since 1982 | ___ / o o "The Truth may not always win, but it is always right." (Eli Hertz) PNEWS-L ("Progressive" News & Views) since 1982 West Server -: http://pnews.org/ East Server -: http://g0lem.net/ _/ _/
Response:
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, PNEWS.ORG cited Christopher Hitchens: from Stone and Chomsky are not committed, militant anti-imperialists or anti-capitalists. Nothing so muscular. They are of the sort who, discovering a viper in the bed of their child, would place the first call to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
Nothing so muscular? I love this macho posturing from a Nation Magazine liberal. It is the sort of thing Norman Mailer did much better in the 1960s. Compared to Mailer, Hitchens is a cheap imitation. I believe I can prove this by means of a brief rhetorical experiment. It runs as follows. Very well, I will stipulate that September 11 was revenge for past American crimes. Specifically, and with supporting detail, I will agree that it was revenge for the crime of past indifference to, and collusion with, the Taliban. May we now agree to cancel this crime by removing from the Taliban the power of enslavement that it exerts over Afghans, and which it hopes to extend?
The Taliban was characterized by its indifference to what happened beyond its borders. The Mullah Omar was a village cleric who hardly had national ambitions, let alone global ones. He only built up a military force after the Northern Alliance, whom Hitchens supports, had brought the country to ruin. 50,000 people were killed during internecine fighting between rival warlords in Kabul. That dwarves any crime every committed by the Taliban. Dead silence from progressives. Couldn’t we talk about the ozone layer instead? In other words, all the learned and conscientious objections, as well as all the silly or sinister ones, boil down to this: Nothing will make us fight against an evil if that fight forces us to go to the same corner as our own government. (The words "our own" should of course be appropriately ironized, with the necessary quotation marks.) To do so would be a betrayal of the Cherokees.
This must be reference to Hitchens’s racist mocking of anti-Columbus Day demonstrations. His advice to such activists was forget about the past, a liberal version of Rush Limbaugh. Some part of this is at least intelligible. My daughter goes to school just across the river from the Pentagon; her good-hearted teachers proposed an "Amity Walk" for children of all nations, to culminate at the statue of Mahatma Gandhi on Massachusetts Avenue. The event would demonstrate that children had no quarrel with anybody. It would not stress the fact that a death squad had just hit a target a few hundred yards away, and would have liked to crash another planeload of hostages anywhere in downtown Washington, and was thwarted in this only by civilians willing to use desperate force. But I had my own
The worst assault on Hitchens’s daughter is having a drunk and an imperialist apologist for a father. reasons, which were no less internationalist, for opposing anything so dismal, and for keeping my child away from anything so inane. I didn’t like General Westmoreland or Colonel North or General Pinochet, and I have said more about this than some people. (I did not, like Oliver Stone, become rich or famous by romancing Camelot or by making an unwatchable three-hour movie showing Nixon’s and Kissinger’s human and vulnerable sides.) I detest General Sharon, and have done so for many years. My face is set against religious and racial demagogues. I
Yes, you are a good liberal. At his best, Noam Chomsky used to insist that there was a distinction to be drawn between state crimes and insurgent crimes, or between the violence of the emperor and the violence of the pirate. The Taliban-bin Laden alliance is a horrific and novel blend of the two.
Compared to anti-colonial revolts of the Victorian age, the Taliban-al Qaeda alliance is mild by comparison. The Mahdists killed every man, woman and child in Khartoum in 1885. But they were resisting a great evil in the form of British colonialism. It employs the methods of the anarchist and the rebel in one declension, being surreptitious and covert and relying on the drama of the individual "martyr." But it also draws on the support of police and military and financial systems, and on the base indulgence of certain established and well-funded religious and theocratic leaderships. It throws acid in the faces of unveiled women. It destroys and burns museums and libraries. (Do we need to submit to our
Don’t forget that they don’t allow people to fly kites either. Maybe the best thing that could be done for Hitchens is a little Muslim fundamentalism on the question of alcohol. If somebody cut him off, maybe he’d stop writing imperialist drivel such as this.
Response:
My friend Louis. I only posted the article as you well know and I too consider Hitchens a bit of a liberal and all of them are cheap imitations of Mailer. He was the master. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ P.S. I do not support the bombing and never did so. There is no moral equivalence for killing twice as many civilians with our bombs as they killed at the WTC. And that does not include the Taliban conscripts who wanted no part of this war. See: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, PNEWS.ORG cited Christopher Hitchens: from Stone and Chomsky are not committed, militant anti-imperialists or anti-capitalists. Nothing so muscular. They are of the sort who, discovering a viper in the bed of their child, would place the first call to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Nothing so muscular? I love this macho posturing from a Nation Magazine liberal. It is the sort of thing Norman Mailer did much better in the 1960s. Compared to Mailer, Hitchens is a cheap imitation. I believe I can prove this by means of a brief rhetorical experiment. It runs as follows. Very well, I will stipulate that September 11 was revenge for past American crimes. Specifically, and with supporting detail, I will agree that it was revenge for the crime of past indifference to, and collusion with, the Taliban. May we now agree to cancel this crime by removing from the Taliban the power of enslavement that it exerts over Afghans, and which it hopes to extend? The Taliban was characterized by its indifference to what happened beyond its borders. The Mullah Omar was a village cleric who hardly had national ambitions, let alone global ones. He only built up a military force after the Northern Alliance, whom Hitchens supports, had brought the country to ruin. 50,000 people were killed during internecine fighting between rival warlords in Kabul. That dwarves any crime every committed by the Taliban. Dead silence from progressives. Couldn’t we talk about the ozone layer instead? In other words, all the learned and conscientious objections, as well as all the silly or sinister ones, boil down to this: Nothing will make us fight against an evil if that fight forces us to go to the same corner as our own government. (The words "our own" should of course be appropriately ironized, with the necessary quotation marks.) To do so would be a betrayal of the Cherokees. This must be reference to Hitchens’s racist mocking of anti-Columbus Day demonstrations. His advice to such activists was forget about the past, a liberal version of Rush Limbaugh. Some part of this is at least intelligible. My daughter goes to school just across the river from the Pentagon; her good-hearted teachers proposed an "Amity Walk" for children of all nations, to culminate at the statue of Mahatma Gandhi on Massachusetts Avenue. The event would demonstrate that children had no quarrel with anybody. It would not stress the fact that a death squad had just hit a target a few hundred yards away, and would have liked to crash another planeload of hostages anywhere in downtown Washington, and was thwarted in this only by civilians willing to use desperate force. But I had my own The worst assault on Hitchens’s daughter is having a drunk and an imperialist apologist for a father. reasons, which were no less internationalist, for opposing anything so dismal, and for keeping my child away from anything so inane. I didn’t like General Westmoreland or Colonel North or General Pinochet, and I have said more about this than some people. (I did not, like Oliver Stone, become rich or famous by romancing Camelot or by making an unwatchable three-hour movie showing Nixon’s and Kissinger’s human and vulnerable sides.) I detest General Sharon, and have done so for many years. My face is set against religious and racial demagogues. I Yes, you are a good liberal. At his best, Noam Chomsky used to insist that there was a distinction to be drawn between state crimes and insurgent crimes, or between the violence of the emperor and the violence of the pirate. The Taliban-bin Laden alliance is a horrific and novel blend of the two. Compared to anti-colonial revolts of the Victorian age, the Taliban-al Qaeda alliance is mild by comparison. The Mahdists killed every man, woman and child in Khartoum in 1885. But they were resisting a great evil in the form of British colonialism. It employs the methods of the anarchist and the rebel in one declension, being surreptitious and covert and relying on the drama of the individual "martyr." But it also draws on the support of police and military and financial systems, and on the base indulgence of certain established and well-funded religious and theocratic leaderships. It throws acid in the faces of unveiled women. It destroys and burns museums and libraries. (Do we need to submit to our Don’t forget that they don’t allow people to fly kites either. Maybe the best thing that could be done for Hitchens is a little Muslim fundamentalism on the question of alcohol. If somebody cut him off, maybe he’d stop writing imperialist drivel such as this.
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Incredible twisting of logic to consider the Taliban anti-imperalist. Next you’ll be telling us they (the Taliban) are not fascists either —– and where were you to object to the anti-imperialism of their alliance with the U.S. against the Soviets — who of course were seeking some progressive utopia because they were "correct" socialists and not socialist-Zionists, like Ben-Gurion and those who founded cooperative communities in Israel and called them Kibbutzim and Moshavim and the Histradrut, which owned most of the means of production in Israel (a bit — You too are an anti-Semite Louis. I knew that from reading your postings to other lists and your agenda is as bankrupt as your twisted logic. Don’t waste my time. TheGolem a/k/a Hank Roth http://pnews.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friend Louis. I only posted the article as you well know and I too consider Hitchens a bit of a liberal and all of them are cheap imitations of Mailer. He was the master. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ And I thought you were some kind of radical. Now I understand you for what you are, a labor-Zionist. Ugh. P.S. I do not support the bombing and never did so. There is no moral equivalence for killing twice as many civilians with our bombs as they killed at the WTC. And that does not include the Taliban conscripts who wanted no part of this war. See: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml This wins a medal for evasion. The attack on the USA was a counter-productive terrorist mistake, but it was in pursuit of anti-imperialist goals. If you penetrate through your circumlocutions, one discovers that you are the same as Hitchens. You defend the right of Empire to rule the world without messy outbursts from the barbarians. You are a typical imperialist apologist. It didn’t take guts to oppose the Vietnam war. It did take guts to oppose WWI or WWII. We are in the same situation today.
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Incredible twisting of logic to consider the Taliban anti-imperalist. Next you’ll be telling us they (the Taliban) are not fascists either
What I said is that the 9/11 attacks were directed against imperialism. They were counter-productive, but that’s another story. —– and where were you to object to the anti-imperialism of their alliance with the U.S. against the Soviets — who of course were seeking some progressive utopia because they were "correct" socialists and not socialist-Zionists, like Ben-Gurion and those who founded cooperative communities in Israel and called them Kibbutzim and Moshavim and the Histradrut, which owned most of the means of production in Israel (a bit
Islamic radicalism directed against Yugoslavia or the government in Kabul in 1978 was reactionary. On the other hand, it is a very good thing that Hizbollah drove Israel out of Lebanon. — You too are an anti-Semite Louis. I knew that from reading your postings to other lists and your agenda is as bankrupt as your twisted logic. Don’t waste my time.
And you have nothing to do with the left, you Zionist troll.
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That (what follows from Louis) is an excellent example of waffling. And Louis, your left is most definitely not my left. Your left is an anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist – dishonest, untruthful left. Your left lost at the barricades. Your left lost when they tore down the Berlin Wall. Your left lost when the Soviets lost their union. Your left lost when your kids went to fight for the Taliban and support ractionary, fascist, women, Christian, Jew, Hindu, xenophobe, hating outlaw governments which would kill you as fast as it would any other outsider and they won’t ask if you are a leftist because they don’t care. And, I see you are up to your usual form however; when you get excited you resort to name calling, like "Zionist Troll". Not unexpected Louis……. Now, there you go wasting my time again. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Incredible twisting of logic to consider the Taliban anti-imperalist. Next you’ll be telling us they (the Taliban) are not fascists either What I said is that the 9/11 attacks were directed against imperialism. They were counter-productive, but that’s another story. —– and where were you to object to the anti-imperialism of their alliance with the U.S. against the Soviets — who of course were seeking some progressive utopia because they were "correct" socialists and not socialist-Zionists, like Ben-Gurion and those who founded cooperative communities in Israel and called them Kibbutzim and Moshavim and the Histradrut, which owned most of the means of production in Israel (a bit Islamic radicalism directed against Yugoslavia or the government in Kabul in 1978 was reactionary. On the other hand, it is a very good thing that Hizbollah drove Israel out of Lebanon. — You too are an anti-Semite Louis. I knew that from reading your postings to other lists and your agenda is as bankrupt as your twisted logic. Don’t waste my time. And you have nothing to do with the left, you Zionist troll.
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My friend Louis. I only posted the article as you well know and I too consider Hitchens a bit of a liberal and all of them are cheap imitations of Mailer. He was the master. TheGolem http://pnews.org/
And I thought you were some kind of radical. Now I understand you for what you are, a labor-Zionist. Ugh. P.S. I do not support the bombing and never did so. There is no moral equivalence for killing twice as many civilians with our bombs as they killed at the WTC. And that does not include the Taliban conscripts who wanted no part of this war. See: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml
This wins a medal for evasion. The attack on the USA was a counter-productive terrorist mistake, but it was in pursuit of anti-imperialist goals. If you penetrate through your circumlocutions, one discovers that you are the same as Hitchens. You defend the right of Empire to rule the world without messy outbursts from the barbarians. You are a typical imperialist apologist. It didn’t take guts to oppose the Vietnam war. It did take guts to oppose WWI or WWII. We are in the same situation today.
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| Subscribe or Unsubscribe to PNEWS-L — http://pnews.org/signup.shtml | | (Where TRUTH and HONESTY are more important than political persuasion) | | PNEWS-L ARCHIVES -http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/pnews-l.html | | CURRENT EVENTS, NEWS & ARTICLES – http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml | After reading this from the pointer posted to PNEWS, I felt it definitely worth posting tonight before the New Year – or already the New Year to our friends across the sea ——- TheGolem The Atlantic Monthly | December 2001 Stranger in a Strange Land The dismay of an honorable man of the left by Christopher Hitchens ….. October 6, the day immediately preceding the first U.S. counterstroke against the Taliban and Osama bin Laden, found me on a panel at the New York Film Festival. The discussion, on the art of political cinema, had been arranged many months before. But as the chairman announced, the events of September 11 would now provide the atmospheric conditioning for our deliberations. I thus sat on a stage with Oliver Stone, who spoke with feeling about something he termed "the revolt of September 11," and with bell hooks, who informed a well-filled auditorium of the Lincoln Center that those who had experienced Spike Lee’s movie about the bombing of a Birmingham, Alabama, church in 1963 would understand that "state terrorism" was nothing new in America. These were not off-the-cuff observations. I challenged Stone to reconsider his view of the immolation of the World Trade Center as a "revolt." He ignored me. Later he added that this rebellion would soon be joined by the anti-globalization forces of the Seattle protesters. When he was asked by a member of the audience to comment on the applause for the September 11 massacres in Arab streets and camps, he responded that the French Revolution, too, had been greeted by popular enthusiasm. Although those who don’t read The Nation, the New Statesman, and the London Review of Books, and who haven’t come across Susan Sontag’s disdainful geopolitical analysis in the pages of The New Yorker, may not be aware of it, these views are, sadly, not uncommon on the political left. Indeed, I would surmise that audience approval of Stone’s and hooks’s propositions was something near fifty-fifty. Clapping and hissing are feeble and fickle indicators, true. At different times, in combating both Stone and hooks, I got my own fair share of each. But let’s say that three weeks after a mass murder had devastated the downtown district, and at a moment when the miasma from the site could still be felt and smelled, a ticket-buying audience of liberal New Yorkers awarded blame more or less evenhandedly between the members of al Qaeda and the directors of U.S. foreign policy. (And not just of foreign policy: Stone drew applause for his assertion that there was an intimate tie between the New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington attacks and the Florida ballot recount, which was, he asserted, "a complete vindication of the fact that capitalism has destroyed democracy.") By this time I was entering my twenty-sixth day of active and engaged antagonism toward this sort of talk, or thought, and was impressed despite myself by the realization that I was the first person Stone and hooks and some audience members appeared to have met who did not agree with them. Or perhaps I should rephrase that: I was the first person on the political left they had met who did not echo or ratify their view. As it happens, I know enough about Marxism, for example, to state without overmuch reservation that capitalism, for all its contradictions, is superior to feudalism and serfdom, which is what bin Laden and the Taliban stand for. (Stone, when I put this to him after the event, retorted that his father had spent many years on Wall Street, and thus he knew the topic quite well.) Having paged through the combined reactions of Sontag, Noam Chomsky, and many others, I am put very much in mind of something from the opening of Marx’s The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte. It’s not the sentence about the historical relation between tragedy and farce. It’s the observation that when people are learning a new language, they habitually translate it back into the one they already know. This work of self-reassurance and of hectic, hasty assimilation to the familiar is most marked in the case of Chomsky, whose prose now manifests that symptom first captured in, I recall, words by Dr. Charcot–"le beau calme de l’hysterique." For Chomsky, everything these days is a "truism"; for him it verges on the platitudinous to be obliged to state, once again for those who may have missed it, that the September 11 crime is a mere bagatelle when set beside the offenses of the Empire. From this it’s not a very big step to the conclusion that we must change the subject, and change it at once, to Palestine or East Timor or Angola or Iraq. All radical polemic may now proceed as it did before the rude interruption. "Nothing new," as the spin doctors have taught us to say. There’s a distinct similarity between this world view and that of the religious dogmatists who regard September 11 in the light of a divine judgment on a sinful society. But to know even what a newspaper reader knows about the Taliban and its zealous destruction of all culture and all science and all human emancipation, and to compare its most noteworthy if not its most awful atrocity to the fall of the Bastille … From Atlantic Unbound: Flashbacks: "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" (September 18, 2001) Americans today are finding new inspiration in Julia Ward Howe’s anthem–originally published in The Atlantic in 1862 to rally Union troops. I take a trawl through my e-mail and my mailbag. "Why sing the ’Battle Hymn of the Republic’? Don’t they know John Brown was the first terrorist?" … "What about the civilian casualties in Vietnam, Guatemala, Gaza [fill in as necessary] …?" This goes on all day, and it goes on while I sleep, so that I open a new batch each morning. Everyone writes to me as if he or she were bravely making a point for the very first time it had ever been made. And so I ask myself, in the spirit of self-criticism that I am enjoining upon these reflexive correspondents, whether I have any responsibility for this dismal tide of dreary traffic, this mob of pseudo-refugees taking shelter in half-baked moral equivalence. Professor Chomsky’s preferred comparative case study is Bill Clinton’s rocketing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan in 1998–a piece of promiscuous violence that took an uncounted number of African lives as part of Clinton’s effort to "look presidential" (and also one of many fainthearted earlier attempts to "target" Osama bin Laden). At the time, I wrote several columns denouncing the atrocity, and the racism and cynicism that lay behind it. I also denounced the vileness of the public enthusiasm for the raid, which I think was at least comparable to the gloating of the dispossessed and the stateless over September 11. Now I get all this thrown back at me by people who didn’t read it on the first occasion and who appear to believe that only Chomsky has the civic courage to bring the raid up. (He didn’t bring it up at the time.) Kipling is back in fashion these days, because of the North-West Frontier, so when I ask myself the question, I also allow myself this couplet from If, in which we are asked, "If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken, / Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools…" It is perfectly true that most Americans were somewhat indifferent to the outside world as it was before September 11, and also highly ignorant of it–a point on which the self-blaming faction insists. While attention was elsewhere, a deadly and irreconcilable enemy was laying plans and training recruits. This enemy–unless we are to flatter him by crediting his own propaganda–cares no more for the wretched of the West Bank than did Saddam Hussein when he announced that the road to Palestine and Jerusalem led through Kuwait and Kurdistan. But a lethal and remorseless foe is a troubling thing in more than one way. Not only may he wish you harm; he may force you to think and to act. And these responsibilities–because thinking and acting are responsibilities–may be disconcerting. The ancient Greeks were so impressed and terrified by the Furies that they re-baptized them the Eumenides–"the Kindly Ones"–the better to adjust to them. Members of the left, along with the far larger number of squishy "progressives," have grossly failed to live up to their responsibility to think; rather, they are merely reacting, substituting tired slogans for thought. The majority of those "progressives" who take comfort from Stone and Chomsky are not committed, militant anti-imperialists or anti-capitalists. Nothing so muscular. They are of the sort who, discovering a viper in the bed of their child, would place the first call to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. I believe I can prove this by means of a brief rhetorical experiment. It runs as follows. Very well, I will stipulate that September 11 was revenge for past American crimes. Specifically, and with supporting detail, I will agree that it was revenge for the crime of past indifference to, and collusion with, the Taliban. May we now agree to
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Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – # Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat # a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t # convincing anyone. # As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the # pure unvarnished truth. # You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. # Allegations from you don’t stand for much. I back everything I write. You # on the other hand play simple childish games with cliches and don’t bother # to cite facts or back them up. When I renamed this the interNUT, I had you # and Roger in mind. # Backs everything he writes? He put up a review of the Katz case which was # terribly biased, # and expected it to fly. I put up another review which came from a respected # academic # at the same institution where Katz did his thesis. I put up the testimony of the # Arab witnesses # to the massacre. There is only so much one can do. # Roth put up a similar review of Joan Peters book. Some backup. # Regarding the pathetic book by Joan Peters, many have debunked it, including # Norman # Finkelstein. His work is readily available. He is the child of Holocaust # survivors. # Then there was the devastating review by Porath. I put that up too. I pointed # out that # Benny Morris’ seminal work, The birth of the Palestinian refugee problem, # 1947-1949 # speaks of some five hundred Palestinian villages, and several major towns, and he # notes only # that there were some several thousand Arab immigrants during the period from WWI # to WWII. # Beyond the statistics, the Jews had no right to come to Palestine. The British # had no right # to allow them to come, and the Palestinians opposed their coming. It was, after # all, # the Palestinians’ land. So if a few of the refugees were recent immigrants to # Palestine, # the Jews were nearly all such. # The notion of justice gets lost in these details. Every refugee from Palestine # has the present # inalieanble right to return there, enshrined in international law. # The court was biased. The jury was biased. The penalty was biased. His # admission that he was mistaken was biased. His public retraction was # biased. The tape was biased because it didn’t translate into anything that # he wrote and there were no bodies so the grave was biased. The Arabs who # came forward and admitted it never happened were biased. The Arabs who # came forward and stated they never told him there was a massacre were also # biased. The only one who is truly biased around here is Roger Alexander. # But that is being really be generous. Some would call it bald face lying. # Give it up Roger. You have been caught too many times. And, you are # biased. # I note here that this is nothing more than ad hominem. Hank Roth deflects every # argument made to him, or ignores them and goes off on his tangents. Nonsense. He was simply exposing your arguments for what they were. You were the one making blatently false statements (That they originally may have come from someone else does not make them factual). Anyone could see this.
You want blatantly. I note only that an ad hominem argument does not expose anything except the absence of reasoned argument on the writer’s part. RLA By the way. Have you actually read anything by Finkelstein? His anti holocaust stuff is nausiating.
You want nauseating. I read his Holocaust Industry. It was fairly good, a polemic, but on the mark. As for his critique of Joan Peters, Severl years ago a self hating Jew by the name of Steve Goldfield posted excertps here. What he wrote actually made a case which was stronger then what Joan peters was claiming to make. As it is, Joan Peters was hired to write something which would trash Israel. When she saw the facts, she had no option other then to write what she actually did.
Again, no facts just fiat. RLA # He can # do as he likes, the NG is open. But he should not expect to be believed. # Speaking of bias, ol’ Hank is a Zionist, you know. And Roger the Truth Dodger is not biased when it comes to things Jewish, Zionism and the like. Roger’s "accuracy" and veracity of facts can be summed up in his own words: "I just post them, I don’t take responsibility for the truth of them." —
I note that in all my posting here Zionists seldom attack the truth of the posts. When I support them with more facts, generally the Zionists just do not reply. The reader should note that that is the way one knows one has won an argument with the Zionists. At the end, they do not reply. RLA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good at math and those that are not.
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# Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat # a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t # convincing anyone. # As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the # pure unvarnished truth. # You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. # You haven’t been here very long, but after you stay for about six weeks, # you will see his MO. He has a list of lies which he continuously # recycles as if new. He will post the same nonsense six times in a day # with different headers and then go on to the next lie. # He has regurgitated everything he knows, which is nothing, over and over # again. I can’t see the point of his posting, except hoping that he # causes hurt to someone. # Of course, none of his lies are his own. He borrows lies (with # attribution) and fills the newsgroups with them. # The kettle is black and broken and useless. He calls the thing by its # true name. Is there anything wrong in that? # I presume you are talking about me. If my list of lies as you call them # is so limited, perhaps it will be no trouble to list them. # I think your post is just ad hominem, which is the Zionist way. # Since the truth is so terrible, Zionsts cannot engage in reasoned argument. # Invective, usually hatefilled is their alternative. Everything Roger the Truth Dodger posts can be summed up in his own words: "I just post them, I don’t take responsibility for the truth of them." — There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good at math and those that are not.
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# Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat # a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t # convincing anyone. # As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the # pure unvarnished truth. # You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. # Allegations from you don’t stand for much. I back everything I write. You # on the other hand play simple childish games with cliches and don’t bother # to cite facts or back them up. When I renamed this the interNUT, I had you # and Roger in mind. # Backs everything he writes? He put up a review of the Katz case which was # terribly biased, # and expected it to fly. I put up another review which came from a respected # academic # at the same institution where Katz did his thesis. I put up the testimony of the # Arab witnesses # to the massacre. There is only so much one can do. # Roth put up a similar review of Joan Peters book. Some backup. # Regarding the pathetic book by Joan Peters, many have debunked it, including # Norman # Finkelstein. His work is readily available. He is the child of Holocaust # survivors. # Then there was the devastating review by Porath. I put that up too. I pointed # out that # Benny Morris’ seminal work, The birth of the Palestinian refugee problem, # 1947-1949 # speaks of some five hundred Palestinian villages, and several major towns, and he # notes only # that there were some several thousand Arab immigrants during the period from WWI # to WWII. # Beyond the statistics, the Jews had no right to come to Palestine. The British # had no right # to allow them to come, and the Palestinians opposed their coming. It was, after # all, # the Palestinians’ land. So if a few of the refugees were recent immigrants to # Palestine, # the Jews were nearly all such. # The notion of justice gets lost in these details. Every refugee from Palestine # has the present # inalieanble right to return there, enshrined in international law. # The court was biased. The jury was biased. The penalty was biased. His # admission that he was mistaken was biased. His public retraction was # biased. The tape was biased because it didn’t translate into anything that # he wrote and there were no bodies so the grave was biased. The Arabs who # came forward and admitted it never happened were biased. The Arabs who # came forward and stated they never told him there was a massacre were also # biased. The only one who is truly biased around here is Roger Alexander. # But that is being really be generous. Some would call it bald face lying. # Give it up Roger. You have been caught too many times. And, you are # biased. # I note here that this is nothing more than ad hominem. Hank Roth deflects every # argument made to him, or ignores them and goes off on his tangents. Nonsense. He was simply exposing your arguments for what they were. You were the one making blatently false statements (That they originally may have come from someone else does not make them factual). Anyone could see this. By the way. Have you actually read anything by Finkelstein? His anti holocaust stuff is nausiating. As for his critique of Joan Peters, Severl years ago a self hating Jew by the name of Steve Goldfield posted excertps here. What he wrote actually made a case which was stronger then what Joan peters was claiming to make. As it is, Joan Peters was hired to write something which would trash Israel. When she saw the facts, she had no option other then to write what she actually did. # He can # do as he likes, the NG is open. But he should not expect to be believed. # Speaking of bias, ol’ Hank is a Zionist, you know. And Roger the Truth Dodger is not biased when it comes to things Jewish, Zionism and the like. Roger’s "accuracy" and veracity of facts can be summed up in his own words: "I just post them, I don’t take responsibility for the truth of them." — There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good at math and those that are not.
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You are beyond reason. You choose to ignore reality – your perogative.
There is some romanticism posing as realism here, but it isn’t mine. You’ve been posting your swill for years – all for naught.
The founder of the sect Methodism to which I belong, was John Wesley. One day John’s father found his mother telling John something for the nth time. He asked her why she always told John everything 20 times. "Because" came the answer, sweet reason itself, "if I only told him 19 times, it would have been wasted." David Irving lost his libel suit against Deborah Libstadt.
You want Lipstadt. I am not David Irving, in fact I am not a revisionist. I do think it is wrong to prevent researchers of the holocaust from doing their work. I do think the Holocaust Industry is a fraud. Your "friends" perpetrated the 9/11 SNEAK ATTACK on the US and now have the full might of the US on their ass. It will be interesting to see what happens.
These people are not my friends. I can’t think of the attack without seeing in my mind’s eye pictures of people throwing themselves out of the tower to excape the flames, only to die in the terrible fall. RLA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I presume you are talking about me. If my list of lies as you call them is so limited, perhaps it will be no trouble to list them. I think your post is just ad hominem, which is the Zionist way. Since the truth is so terrible, Zionsts cannot engage in reasoned argument. Invective, usually hatefilled is their alternative. RLA You haven’t been here very long, but after you stay for about six weeks, you will see his MO. He has a list of lies which he continuously recycles as if new. He will post the same nonsense six times in a day with different headers and then go on to the next lie. He has regurgitated everything he knows, which is nothing, over and over again. I can’t see the point of his posting, except hoping that he causes hurt to someone. Of course, none of his lies are his own. He borrows lies (with attribution) and fills the newsgroups with them. The kettle is black and broken and useless. He calls the thing by its true name. Is there anything wrong in that? Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t convincing anyone. As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the pure unvarnished truth. You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. Cheers, Lech
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You wrote all this just to say he lost in court, there were NO graves and it was all bogus. ALL BOGUS Alexander, like what you have between your ears. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ "Israel’s history is based on two strategies: denial of actual history, and defaming those who deny Israel’s twisted version of history." Ramzy Baroud Hank Roth is doing a good job of both. But I think he is getting a little mad. RLA
You wish. As a war veteran when I get mad you will know it [g]. Besides how can you get mad at an idiot. Take your meds. Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t convincing anyone. He continues to repeat Arab propaganda (et al) which has already been debunked so many times it is pathetic that he can’t find anything new. TheGolem http://pnews.org/
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You wrote all this just to say he lost in court, there were NO graves and it was all bogus. ALL BOGUS Alexander, like what you have between your ears. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ "Israel’s history is based on two strategies: denial of actual history, and defaming those who deny Israel’s twisted version of history." Ramzy Baroud Hank Roth is doing a good job of both. But I think he is getting a little mad. RLA You wish. As a war veteran when I get mad you will know it [g]. Besides how can you get mad at an idiot. Take your meds. Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t convincing anyone. He continues to repeat Arab propaganda (et al) which has already been debunked so many times it is pathetic that he can’t find anything new. TheGolem http://pnews.org/
Not to get into the proverbial —- fight with a skunk, Roth posts falsehoods, I debunk them, instead of showing evidence, he descends into ad hominem. Most of what he posts is not even current Zionist party line, but "old" propaganda, long since discredited. RLA
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Oh, I’m sorry Mr. PNEWS.ORG. This is alt.politics.radical-left. You have apparently confused this newsgroup with alt.politics.racist-scumwads. Please make a note of it. — "Bowl a strike, not a spare — revolution everywhere!" -RABL motto
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"Israel’s history is based on two strategies: denial of actual history, and defaming those who deny Israel’s twisted version of history." Ramzy Baroud Hank Roth is doing a good job of both. But I think he is getting a little mad.
He’s not. He’s doing a terrible job, in fact. He uses standard propaganda techniques that anyone with a smidgen of grey matter quickly recognizes. That’s why so many ‘progressives’ dropped out of his listserver. Hank has every right to do what he does, and I will defend that right to the death. Just don’t expect me to by into it. If that makes me an anti-semite, so be it. Cheers, Lech
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You call it propaganda, I prefer the truth and I hardly think 2,712 subscribers to PNEWS-L, the oldest "progressive" conference on the internet, since 1982, would indicate your statement has as much veracity as anything else said by you. And no one needs to defend the truth. The citations provided in information provided are not being refuted. You answer is typical of the retrobate response one gets on the interNUT. Your opinion is merely that and while wishful thinking, PNEWS has outsurvived most of what came after it and all that came before it. TheGolem a/k/a Hank Roth For those who want a higher level of discourse, send request to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Israel’s history is based on two strategies: denial of actual history, and defaming those who deny Israel’s twisted version of history." Ramzy Baroud Hank Roth is doing a good job of both. But I think he is getting a little mad. He’s not. He’s doing a terrible job, in fact. He uses standard propaganda techniques that anyone with a smidgen of grey matter quickly recognizes. That’s why so many ‘progressives’ dropped out of his listserver. Hank has every right to do what he does, and I will defend that right to the death. Just don’t expect me to by into it. If that makes me an anti-semite, so be it. Cheers, Lech
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Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t convincing anyone.
As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the pure unvarnished truth. You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. Cheers, Lech
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Allegations from you don’t stand for much. I back everything I write. You on the other hand play simple childish games with cliches and don’t bother to cite facts or back them up. When I renamed this the interNUT, I had you and Roger in mind. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t convincing anyone. As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the pure unvarnished truth. You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. Cheers, Lech
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True "pot". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t convincing anyone. As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the pure unvarnished truth. You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. Cheers, Lech
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Allegations from you don’t stand for much. I back everything I write. You on the other hand play simple childish games with cliches and don’t bother to cite facts or back them up. When I renamed this the interNUT, I had you and Roger in mind. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ Roger believes in the Hermann Goebels propaganda method, when you repeat a lie enough times someone will believe it – only in his case he isn’t convincing anyone. As opposed to your own unbiased postion which distributes nothing but the pure unvarnished truth. You do your cause no good by calling the kettle black. Cheers, Lech
Backs everything he writes? He put up a review of the Katz case which was terribly biased, and expected it to fly. I put up another review which came from a respected academic at the same institution where Katz did his thesis. I put up the testimony of the Arab witnesses to the massacre. There is only so much one can do. Roth put up a similar review of Joan Peters book. Some backup. Regarding the pathetic book by Joan Peters, many have debunked it, including Norman Finkelstein. His work is readily available. He is the child of Holocaust survivors. Then there was the devastating review by Porath. I put that up too. I pointed out that Benny Morris’ seminal work, The birth of the Palestinian refugee problem, 1947-1949 speaks of some five hundred Palestinian villages, and several major towns, and he notes only that there were some several thousand Arab immigrants during the period from WWI to WWII. Beyond the statistics, the Jews had no right to come to Palestine. The British had no right to allow them to come, and the Palestinians opposed their coming. It was, after all, the Palestinians’ land. So if a few of the refugees were recent immigrants to Palestine, the Jews were nearly all such. The notion of justice gets lost in these details. Every refugee from Palestine has the present inalieanble right to return there, enshrined in international law. RLA
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"[Benny] Morris had different plans. He knew exactly what was in store for his audience: a surprise, a big surprise. [In the lecture] he told them that the Palestinians have been obstinately refusing to accept any compromise since the 1930’s. They refused to accept the 1937 Partition Plan of the Peel Commission (a Jewish State on 20% of the Sharon and Galilee regions of territorial Palestine), they rejected the 1947 UN partition plan (an Arab state on 40% of the territory), they did not even want to hear about Sadat and Begin’s [1979] Autonomy Plan (which was a part of the Camp David Accord and which was never implemented), and they rejected Bill Clinton’s generous offer (which included 95% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaaza). To make a long story short, [Morris said that] the Jews always agreed [to various compromise offers] whereas the Arabs always refused to accept them, and the blame falls squarely on the Palestinians. They have been making historic mistakes for seventy years now, and there is a price for historic mistakes
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You keep presenting this foolishness as news. It’s bizarre editorial content. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FASCISM: Who believes in coincidences? Via NY Transfer News * All the News That Doesn’t Fit
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FASCISM: Who believes in coincidences? Via NY Transfer News * All the News That Doesn’t Fit "There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people for a purpose which is unattainable. If the purpose is to stop terrorism, even the supporters of the bombing say it won’t work; if the purpose is to gain respect for the United States, the result is the opposite: all over the world there is anger and indignation at Reagan’s mindless, pointless, soulless violence. We have had Presidents just as violent. We have rarely had one so full of hypocritical pieties about `the right to life.’ [Howard Zinn-On War] Oh, yes we have. We had George Bush senior and now we have George Bush junior, and they have been just as violent and just as full of "hypocritical pieties". In fact, nothing has changed. We just had a conservative Democrat for eight years and then it was back to `business as usual’. THE PIPELAND and UNOCAL has always been integral to Bush foreign policy. Before George Bush junior became the unelected president, Zalmay Khalilzad discussed a proposed multibillion dollar pipeline deal with the Taliban. He did this as an Unocal oil company adviser and they were meeting at the luxury Houston hotel – IN BUSH COUNTRY. Today Khalilzad is still in BUSH COUNTRY, and it has moved to Washington, D.C. Khalilzad is in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not far from the White House and he is an adviser to George Bush junior. Today, Khalilzad, who is from Mazar-e Sharif, Afghanistan, 70 miles south of the Soviet border, is a member of the National Security Council and a special assistant to Bush. Their interest is the OIL and getting rid of former friends, the uncooperative and pesty Taliban. There is a photo in Khalilzad’s office which was taken at the White House in the 80s and it showed him and Ronald Reagan together when their interest was OIL and getting rid of those pesty Soviets. In 1985 through 1989, he worked at the State Department as a special adviser to the undersecretary of state, and was a consultant on the Iran-Iraq War and on the Afghan-Soviet war. He advised Reagan to provide arms, including those shoulder-fired Stinger missiles – to Reagan’s "Freedom Fighters," the Taliban. In the 80s Khalilzazad was a Reagan administration policy planner and consultant and Pentagon strategist and Rand Corp. scholar. He was also an undersecretary of defense for president George Bush Senior in it’s war against Iraq. He has been a senior political scientist at Rand, providing policy studies for the U.S. military as they apply to Afghanistan and other countries in that region. He founded Rand’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies. He said to Bush junior, MONTHS BEFORE THOSE PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THE WORLD TRADE TOWERS, that that action against the Taliban "now is essential." In the 90s, at the for-profit Cambridge Energy Research Associates, he conducted risk analyses for Unocal Corp., that U.S. oil company that wants to construct the gas and oil pipelines across Afghanistan. Khalilzad headed the Bush-Cheney transition team for the Defense Department and he also counseled Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. HE IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN A KEY FIGURE IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION — and he is also a representative for UNOCAL. Now, doesn’t it all seem very coincidental that just months after being advised to eliminate the Taliban by his key adviser on Afghanistan that George Bush junior orders the elimination of the Taliban? Do you believe in coincidences? TheGolem http://pnews.org/ "We can have a democratic society or we can have the concentration of great wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both." — Louis Brandeis, Supreme Court Justice from 1916-1939 | PNEWS-L is a SUPER-LIST with 23 Topics – TURN OFF what you do not want | | LISTSERV(tm) is a very *powerful* university CONFERENCING tool | | Highest level of *NET SECURITY* ~ Indexing-Digest-Search-Interface | | * Topics= ALERTS,HEALTH,INTERNET,ECONOMY,FASCISM,NUCLEAR,PEACE,VIEWS, | | DRUGS,HUMANITY,ETHICS,MISC,LAW,TERRORISM,LIBERTIES,SOCIALISM,LABOR, | | WOMEN,EMPIRE,ACTIVISM,CONFLICT,ELECTIONS,VIEWS,PROPAGANDA | NY Transfer News Collective * A Service of Blythe Systems Since 1985 – Information for the Rest of Us 339 Lafayette St., New York, NY 10012 nytact-11.30.01-06:19:46-19575 http://www.blythe.org
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