The U.S. is not the best country in the world

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tolerance – try being in a country lead by Madiba, where 70% of the populace is against your skin color and is wanting to kill you just for that – he turned that around totally and the reform was peaceful. Try that at home instead of Jackassing around. Tolerance is not an American trait. Ask the natives. Any natives. To take it a step further, I don’t think that tolerance is a human trait. It can be learned, don’t you agree?

The story of Columbus coming to the new world might shed a little light on your belief. When old Chris found this island, he was in real need. From his diaries we find that the natives (in his view) were big, good looking, naked, healthy, happy, welcoming, and very helpful. So, he killed them all. People are tolerant — governments (or their agents) are not. — "We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."

Response:

Tolerance – try being in a country lead by Madiba, where 70% of the populace is against your skin color and is wanting to kill you just for that – he turned that around totally and the reform was peaceful. Try that at home instead of Jackassing around. Tolerance is not an American trait. Ask the natives. Any natives.

To take it a step further, I don’t think that tolerance is a human trait. It can be learned, don’t you agree?

Response:

Tolerance is not an American trait. Ask the natives. Any natives. — "We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course nobody is perfect, but somebody has to be more perfect than the others. It has to be the USA, 20+ million immigrants have come here since 1990, and that can’t be overlooked. We have the oldest Constitution in the world, we’re the model for every other free country. Immigrants aren’t flocking to Russia or China for crissakes. That’s true…and the supreme court upholds the constitution, which pisses off conservatives who’d rather the bible dictate what direction the country goes in. Abortion was decided decades ago and they want to dig it back up. Gay marriage was decided to be deserved to gays based on the law by the massachusetts supreme court…as if the judge should have told the plaintifs to wait while he ran a poll on what to decide…the law is written a certain way and judges follow it. I’m not religious, and I’m mostly for abortion, but if conservatives want to readress the topic in the courts, it’s perfectly valid. Take slavery for example. It was legal for years, and under YOUR logic, because it was legal for years, it should always remain legal for no other reason other than the duration of it’s legality. It’s the same thing with abortion. That case should not have been heard by the Supreme Court because there was no Constitutional dilema. Times change, and unfortunately a lot of Supreme Court decisions are made without considering whether it is constitutional or not. What was my point again?

You’re right, bringing it up again isn’t against the constitution, but the merits of the initial decision have to change…there has to be something new to bring forth on the topic for it to be dug up once more…slaves were emancipated by the president, the courts had little to do with that It’s that the bag of issues is getting empty in a specific year, so they dust off an oldie-but-goodie now all of a sudden, there are right wingers, i know a couple, who in the 80s and 90s took the stance that it wasn’t their business (men) and that it was a woman’s issue…now these same people are against it to the core for no other reason than it’s an election year…politics has awakened a sence of morality within them that probably was never there to begin with but was programmed in over the past year… it’s just about being able to diferentiate oneself to the opposition…everybody likes to feel like they’re part of a team

Response:

well, better in what way? courage? i’d say vietnam has a more courageous national character than the usa. tolerance toward others? probably any other western country you care to name. prosperity? any scandinavian country or iceland or western europe. diet? any country that hasnt been affliced with the fast food cancer that fattens ppls bodies and thickens their brains. health? almost any western country you care to name? common sense? almost any country in the world has more collective common sense. respect for the country itself? the care of the environment? shit dont get me started there. so what is so great about america that you’re liable to hear? a good place to screw and gouge and cheat and steal till you get a lot of MONEY!!! i mean that’s what they’re talking about when they say "opportunity", right? and as for americans leaving america, if you’d ever been anywhere and pulled yer head outcher ass you would have seen quite a few who once having tasted real life never wanted to go back to the shadow world. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seek and you shall find. Seek deez.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While the USA is the country most _responsible_ for freedom and democracy on the globe, it has not been the best or the most free country. While the USA has been responsible for the protection of Central and South America, Europe, and all other democracies from India to Australia to Japan, it is by no means the freest or best country in the world. While the USA does the most to advance freedom and democracy about the globe, the USA has too many restrictions and human rights violations, and many countries are better. Many countries are worse as well, and much of the responsibility in the United States falls on the local level. Which countries are better? Please, inform us. Then explain the flood of immigrants from every other country into ours. After that, explain why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. well, better in what way? courage? i’d say vietnam has a more courageous national character than the usa. tolerance toward others? probably any other western country you care to name. prosperity? any scandinavian country or iceland or western europe. diet? any country that hasnt been affliced with the fast food cancer that fattens ppls bodies and thickens their brains. health? almost any western country you care to name? common sense? almost any country in the world has more collective common sense. respect for the country itself? the care of the environment? shit dont get me started there. so what is so great about america that you’re liable to hear? a good place to screw and gouge and cheat and steal till you get a lot of MONEY!!! i mean that’s what they’re talking about when they say "opportunity", right? and as for americans leaving america, if you’d ever been anywhere and pulled yer head outcher ass you would have seen quite a few who once having tasted real life never wanted to go back to the shadow world. Seek and you shall find. Seek deez.

Guys, one moment. I received one of these ‘come get a green card and live is prosperity and wealth in America’. I was working for a American Corp. here in SA at the time. I took stock of my life, resigned, replied to the email something about not wanting to live in America if they paid a million USD to get me there. I live in South Africa – and trust me, you want courage – talk about Nkosi Johnson. I get all the US travel notifications – we don’t need them here, as we know the world does not hate us. Kidnapping, murder, etc are too commonplace here for us to worry about it much. We are always in the top 3 murder capitals of the country, so we’ve seen it all. Recently they even kidnapped a young girl, then got the ransom, and killed her anyways (they had claimed to be Libyian). Like they don’t have enough problems. The last time the world sanctioned us, they spent the next few years learning what we developed during the sanctions. Wanna do that again to the country that makes petrol from coal? No wonder Bush was here – he can’t product petrol from oil in the USA….. As for imigrants, they listened to all the viva america propoganda. One thing is for sure – nowadays one is either FOR america, or not – their president made sure of that. Now people who previously had no gripe with the US either love or hate them, no in-between. We’ve all seen the world’s most intelligent leader at work – and respectfully I’d rather take command from my cat. Tolerance – try being in a country lead by Madiba, where 70% of the populace is against your skin color and is wanting to kill you just for that – he turned that around totally and the reform was peaceful. Try that at home instead of Jackassing around. I am not making it out that SA is the greatest – but we are streaks ahead of the USA in so many ways….. and I would STILL rather sit with all our problems here than follow the US leaders. If I was to pick a country to go live and work, it would be one with a good currency – Euro is better than the Dollar, as is the Have a great day now, y’all. :o)

Response:

Do American go to Austria to live and work for a better life than in America; NO Do Canadians do anything they can to try and sneak into America: Yes I dont comment on Holland because I know little of the country

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Of course nobody is perfect, but somebody has to be more perfect than the others. It has to be the USA, 20+ million immigrants have come here since 1990, and that can’t be overlooked. We have the oldest Constitution in the world, we’re the model for every other free country. Immigrants aren’t flocking to Russia or China for crissakes. That’s true…and the supreme court upholds the constitution, which pisses off conservatives who’d rather the bible dictate what direction the country goes in. Abortion was decided decades ago and they want to dig it back up. Gay marriage was decided to be deserved to gays based on the law by the massachusetts supreme court…as if the judge should have told the plaintifs to wait while he ran a poll on what to decide…the law is written a certain way and judges follow it.

I’m not religious, and I’m mostly for abortion, but if conservatives want to readress the topic in the courts, it’s perfectly valid. Take slavery for example. It was legal for years, and under YOUR logic, because it was legal for years, it should always remain legal for no other reason other than the duration of it’s legality. It’s the same thing with abortion. That case should not have been heard by the Supreme Court because there was no Constitutional dilema. Times change, and unfortunately a lot of Supreme Court decisions are made without considering whether it is constitutional or not. What was my point again?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .. so then back to the original question: List the countries that are better than America Different countries are better in different areas. My point was that while America was the first free democracy, the "shot heard round the world" has been heard by many, and many other countries have surpassed America in living up to the conception of Freedom and Equality upon which it was founded. Name one … Holland Austria Canada …..there’s three, see what you can come up with to disagree…I included an axis country, one right next door to us, the obvious choice (holland)…and i’ve been to all three, so have at it It’s true, many counties are behind all the others, and have much learning and improving to do. But America can not fancy itself the leader of the pack in terms of freedom, equality, and unalienable rights any longer. … Then who is? I’m not looking to down the USA, I love it here, I just happen to agree with this guy that it’s not like we’re the beacon of freedom many like to spout out in a way that would make it seem like every country in the world was living under opression when that’s surely not the case. Of course nobody is perfect, but somebody has to be more perfect than the others. It has to be the USA, 20+ million immigrants have come here since 1990, and that can’t be overlooked. We have the oldest Constitution in the world, we’re the model for every other free country. Immigrants aren’t flocking to Russia or China for crissakes.

That’s true…and the supreme court upholds the constitution, which pisses off conservatives who’d rather the bible dictate what direction the country goes in. Abortion was decided decades ago and they want to dig it back up. Gay marriage was decided to be deserved to gays based on the law by the massachusetts supreme court…as if the judge should have told the plaintifs to wait while he ran a poll on what to decide…the law is written a certain way and judges follow it. Aggrivation from the conservative side appears to stem more on not liking the natural truths abotu america e pluribus unum – out of many, one many people in the country don’t think this should be the way

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .. so then back to the original question: List the countries that are better than America Different countries are better in different areas. My point was that while America was the first free democracy, the "shot heard round the world" has been heard by many, and many other countries have surpassed America in living up to the conception of Freedom and Equality upon which it was founded. Name one … Holland Austria Canada …..there’s three, see what you can come up with to disagree…I included an axis country, one right next door to us, the obvious choice (holland)…and i’ve been to all three, so have at it It’s true, many counties are behind all the others, and have much learning and improving to do. But America can not fancy itself the leader of the pack in terms of freedom, equality, and unalienable rights any longer. … Then who is? I’m not looking to down the USA, I love it here, I just happen to agree with this guy that it’s not like we’re the beacon of freedom many like to spout out in a way that would make it seem like every country in the world was living under opression when that’s surely not the case.

Response:

.. so then back to the original question: List the countries that are better than America Different countries are better in different areas. My point was that while America was the first free democracy, the "shot heard round the world" has been heard by many, and many other countries have surpassed America in living up to the conception of Freedom and Equality upon which it was founded. Name one …

Holland Austria Canada …..there’s three, see what you can come up with to disagree…I included an axis country, one right next door to us, the obvious choice (holland)…and i’ve been to all three, so have at it It’s true, many counties are behind all the others, and have much learning and improving to do. But America can not fancy itself the leader of the pack in terms of freedom, equality, and unalienable rights any longer. … Then who is?

Nobody…nobody needs to…it was a concept to make us all feel better about having to work 40-80 hours a week, ‘we’re the best, we’re the best, we’re the model for the world’….remember bush’s debates w/ gore? he hammered in that ‘america is the best’…it worked…he was mum on most issues, but he hammered in that point and in a LOT of ways he was right, but in terms of this discussion, freedom and whatnot, the christians are having their way these past four years, and the patriot act probably puts us below those three automatically just based on it’s nature. I’m not looking to down the USA, I love it here, I just happen to agree with this guy that it’s not like we’re the beacon of freedom many like to spout out in a way that would make it seem like every country in the world was living under opression when that’s surely not the case. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nay, some might say it has fallen far behind, and far short of its original goals and aspirations.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this country. Sure there are some ex-patriates, but lets be real, it a very small number. True – but your original statement was – why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. "Never" and "any" made your statement erroneous. I merely pointed that out. I was sure you meant "few". Pangur The number of permanent expatriates is so small to our total population, its mathematically insignificant. Since 1990, about 15-20 million came to this country both legally and illegally. I’ll bet you that the number of US citizens leaving the US permanently is less than 5% of the above number. All I’m trying to say is that the US is the place to be. Just look at the flood coming in. You can get cute analyzing with my actual words above, but my original point stands. I didn’t argue with your point – and correcting an erroneous statement is NOT getting cute. Pangur

Yes, it is, especially if you knew the point I’m trying to make. What is this fucking grammar class? Who were you, some kind of hall monitor in school?

Response:

Name one … It’s true, many counties are behind all the others, and have much learning and improving to do. But America can not fancy itself the leader of the pack in terms of freedom, equality, and unalienable rights any longer.

… Then who is? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nay, some might say it has fallen far behind, and far short of its original goals and aspirations.

Response:

simple answer: Put two doors at the entry to the US: One for people who leave and One for People who want to come in. Question: which one is busier???

Response:

List the countries that are better than America

Different countries are better in different areas. My point was that while America was the first free democracy, the "shot heard round the world" has been heard by many, and many other countries have surpassed America in living up to the conception of Freedom and Equality upon which it was founded. It’s true, many counties are behind all the others, and have much learning and improving to do. But America can not fancy itself the leader of the pack in terms of freedom, equality, and unalienable rights any longer. Nay, some might say it has fallen far behind, and far short of its original goals and aspirations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While the USA is the country most _responsible_ for freedom and democracy on the globe, it has not been the best or the most free country. While the USA has been responsible for the protection of Central and South America, Europe, and all other democracies from India to Australia to Japan, it is by no means the freest or best country in the world. While the USA does the most to advance freedom and democracy about the globe, the USA has too many restrictions and human rights violations, and many countries are better. Many countries are worse as well, and much of the responsibility in the United States falls on the local level. Change in this world begins with you. Hopefully, the USA can endeavor to do better, and not fall into a false sense of believing it is best, or perfect, or above doing better. And hopefully other countries in this world can endeavor to do "better" than the United States, and thus hold themselves in higher regard. We must be our own leaders. True authority dwells _within_ every human being. Seek and you shall find. Not only is the kingdom of God within you, you are it! Yet who and what you are is more than a mere personality or concept. You are undefinable, transcending all concepts; you can NOT be perceived, you can only be _known_. Jesus gave a new commandment to all which supercedes all others: Love one another.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While the USA is the country most _responsible_ for freedom and democracy on the globe, it has not been the best or the most free country. While the USA has been responsible for the protection of Central and South America, Europe, and all other democracies from India to Australia to Japan, it is by no means the freest or best country in the world. While the USA does the most to advance freedom and democracy about the globe, the USA has too many restrictions and human rights violations, and many countries are better. Many countries are worse as well, and much of the responsibility in the United States falls on the local level. Which countries are better? Please, inform us. Then explain the flood of immigrants from every other country into ours. After that, explain why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. Uh, I haven’t been following this thread – but I know Americans born and bred and raised on apple pie who have left the US to live abroad….for a variety of reasons none of which are financial. Pangur How many? That number is minooote compared to the flood coming in to this country. Sure there are some ex-patriates, but lets be real, it a very small number. True – but your original statement was – why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. "Never" and "any" made your statement erroneous. I merely pointed that out. I was sure you meant "few". Pangur The number of permanent expatriates is so small to our total population, its mathematically insignificant. Since 1990, about 15-20 million came to this country both legally and illegally. I’ll bet you that the number of US citizens leaving the US permanently is less than 5% of the above number. All I’m trying to say is that the US is the place to be. Just look at the flood coming in. You can get cute analyzing with my actual words above, but my original point stands.

I didn’t argue with your point – and correcting an erroneous statement is NOT getting cute. Pangur

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While the USA is the country most _responsible_ for freedom and democracy on the globe, it has not been the best or the most free country. While the USA has been responsible for the protection of Central and South America, Europe, and all other democracies from India to Australia to Japan, it is by no means the freest or best country in the world. While the USA does the most to advance freedom and democracy about the globe, the USA has too many restrictions and human rights violations, and many countries are better. Many countries are worse as well, and much of the responsibility in the United States falls on the local level. Which countries are better? Please, inform us. Then explain the flood of immigrants from every other country into ours. After that, explain why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. Uh, I haven’t been following this thread – but I know Americans born and bred and raised on apple pie who have left the US to live abroad….for a variety of reasons none of which are financial. Pangur How many? That number is minooote compared to the flood coming in to this country. Sure there are some ex-patriates, but lets be real, it a very small number. True – but your original statement was – why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. "Never" and "any" made your statement erroneous. I merely pointed that out. I was sure you meant "few". Pangur

The number of permanent expatriates is so small to our total population, its mathematically insignificant. Since 1990, about 15-20 million came to this country both legally and illegally. I’ll bet you that the number of US citizens leaving the US permanently is less than 5% of the above number. All I’m trying to say is that the US is the place to be. Just look at the flood coming in. You can get cute analyzing with my actual words above, but my original point stands.

Response:

True – but your original statement was – why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. "Never" and "any" made your statement erroneous. I merely pointed that out. I was sure you meant "few". Pangur

Response:

Actually, Norway is often touted as being the best.

Picture in your head, the most ugly, fierce, garbage-eating, useless rodent known to man. Grey, ratted, filthy and mean, this vermin has no known benefit other than to populate out of control and cause its neighbors nothing but headaches. What is the name of this lowest of the low of God’s creatures, you may ask? The Norwegian rat. Nuff said. IMHO, America is the best because, when you Europeans and Canadians and New Zealanders sit on your arse, whining and crying about how bad things are in the rest of the world, America at least tries to do something about it. When you are ready to send Danish troops into Iraq, or feed the Iraqi people with New Zealand sheep, THEN you can claim to be the best in the world. Until then, stay in the political back seat and don’t complain about good ol’ GW at the wheel. Now watch this drive.

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There are millions of Americans living outside the US. Ed

Response:

How many? That number is minooote compared to the flood coming in to this country. Sure there are some ex-patriates, but lets be real, it a very small number. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seek and you shall find. Seek deez.

Response:

Uh, I haven’t been following this thread – but I know Americans born and bred and raised on apple pie who have left the US to live abroad….for a variety of reasons none of which are financial. Pangur – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Seek and you shall find. Seek deez.

Response:

Actually, Norway is often touted as being the best. However when I was in highschool, we did have a Norwegian family that emigrated here. As for Americans leaving the U.S., there are a number of expatriates for a variety of reasons. Here’s one: <http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm <http://tinyurl.com/2ym4r — — Chip "Oderint dum metuant." - Lucius Accius

Response:

Which countries are better? Please, inform us. Then explain the flood of immigrants from every other country into ours. After that, explain why you never see any US citizens leaving the US. Seek and you shall find.

Seek deez.

Response:

While the USA is the country most _responsible_ for freedom and democracy on the globe, it has not been the best or the most free country. While the USA has been responsible for the protection of Central and South America, Europe, and all other democracies from India to Australia to Japan, it is by no means the freest or best country in the world. While the USA does the most to advance freedom and democracy about the globe, the USA has too many restrictions and human rights violations, and many countries are better. Many countries are worse as well, and much of the responsibility in the United States falls on the local level. Change in this world begins with you. Hopefully, the USA can endeavor to do better, and not fall into a false sense of believing it is best, or perfect, or above doing better. And hopefully other countries in this world can endeavor to do "better" than the United States, and thus hold themselves in higher regard. We must be our own leaders. True authority dwells _within_ every human being. Seek and you shall find. Not only is the kingdom of God within you, you are it! Yet who and what you are is more than a mere personality or concept. You are undefinable, transcending all concepts; you can NOT be perceived, you can only be _known_. Jesus gave a new commandment to all which supercedes all others: Love one another.

Response:

Filed under: Human Rights

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