RHETORIC: How to Negotiate with Religious Zealotry

Question:

That makes about as much sense as saying, "here is a Afghanistan’s own words", therefore it represents the Jews…. Or, here is a Russians’ own words, therefore it must represent all Russians. Did anyone ever tell you, you are brilliant? TheGolem http://pnews.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – here’s a jew’s own words on the instutional racism built into Israel. And BTW, you’ll notice that Phylis, a jew, refers to the word Zionism that many of us here associate. That is Zionism not as expression of what pnews.org says it is, but Zionism as a white supremicist type calling where this minority of Jews consider themselves superior to all other races and have an inherent right to dominate them. (and in terms of Israel, the right to move all palestinains/arabs off the land they have inhabited for the last 100 years +). I prefer to use a Jewish person to quote, lest anyone else be deemed anti-semetic for their crisitism of Isreal. ttp://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BEN108A.html Racism Inside Israel Phyllis Bennis is interviewed by Max Elbaum

Response:

I am not humiliated by ad hominem. Mitchell Bard has put forth some execrable lies posing as debunks of purported myths. They are in line with the standard zionist propaganda. Roth cannot address the horror of Israel except to assert that the Palestinians arenot a people, they are, that Israel is justified by Palestinian resistance to Israeli aggression in the savage oppression of the Palestinians, and so forth. One could be the brightest person on earth and without morality be worth nothing. Roth is essentially amoral. RLA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists. During the outbreak of violence in the territories that began in September 2000, Israeli Arabs for the first time engaged in widespread protests with some violence." [Myths & Facts (AICE), 2001 - Human Rights in Israel and the Territories By Dr Mitchell G. Bard] Bard is a Zionist who put up a phony set of myths and phony debunk. Do a Google search on him for his affinities. RLA Roger: I decided some time ago not to waste my time with your ugliness. You are too stupid to even talk to. But when you try to insult my cousin then I take personal exception. His "affinities" as you call them are Jews. We’re a national and a peoplehood and Israel is our homeland. The above statement from Dr Bard is correct. Typically, you have not lent anything substantive to the debate which can effectively refute the statement. He says most Israeli Arabs behave themselves except during this outbreak of violence during which time about 20% of Israel Arabs for the first time did engage in some protest. Your answer is as stupid as you are. You say, Bard is a Zionist. A Zionist is one who supports Jewish survival. Many in this country are Zionists. A Zionist need not be Jewish. If you think you can refute his debunking of ARAB myths, go right ahead – but none of this, it is so because you say it is so. Roger, I know you are an adult, but you don’t act like one. You don’t talk like one. And, you obviously have a screw loose. Israel does not intend to "solve" its social problems. Apartheid is built into the legal and social fabric. The Ashkenazi in Israel have constructed an elaborate system in which they are at the top of a caste system among the Jews there. Roth is Ashkenazi. RLA Roth is Jewish, not Ashkanazi nor Sephardic – but Jewish and part of the Jewish Peoplehood. There is no apartheid except that which separates the thinking part of your brain from the talking and writing part. Instead of trying to interject something cute – (it won’t happen) – try to substantiate some dependable facts. [1] Have you ever been to Israel? [2] Do you have any Jewish friends (yea, sure) – and [3] were you ever in the military? Anotherwords, did you ever leave Ky? I have spent considerable time in Israel as well as Africa and Asia and I was in the Yom Kipper war in Israel. I wasn’t there to play fiddle sticks. I was in combat zones in the U.S. Army and I know the strategic and military importance of Israel to the U.S. That is a whole other topic and I expect to be posting something to that topic soon in PNEWS.. Anyone here who is interested in this topic can subscribe to the PNEWS symposium (No left wing retrobate minds and no right – or left wing anti-Semites. No idiots – Roger need not apply).. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ Back to the filter for you Roger – unless I feel like humiliating you again.

Response:

There you go again. You are really an idiot. Your opinion is not a fact. It is the opinion of a very misinformed anti-Semite. Mitchell Bard substantiates facts with credible citations. There is no test of credibility in anything you write – You must be humiliated to post such foolish blather. Either you are off your medication or you are overdosing on your medication. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not humiliated by ad hominem. Mitchell Bard has put forth some execrable lies posing as debunks of purported myths. They are in line with the standard zionist propaganda. Roth cannot address the horror of Israel except to assert that the Palestinians arenot a people, they are, that Israel is justified by Palestinian resistance to Israeli aggression in the savage oppression of the Palestinians, and so forth. One could be the brightest person on earth and without morality be worth nothing. Roth is essentially amoral. RLA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists. During the outbreak of violence in the territories that began in September 2000, Israeli Arabs for the first time engaged in widespread protests with some violence." [Myths & Facts (AICE), 2001 - Human Rights in Israel and the Territories By Dr Mitchell G. Bard] Bard is a Zionist who put up a phony set of myths and phony debunk. Do a Google search on him for his affinities. RLA

Roger: I decided some time ago not to waste my time with your ugliness. You are too stupid to even talk to. But when you try to insult my cousin then I take personal exception. His "affinities" as you call them are Jews. We’re a national and a peoplehood and Israel is our homeland. The above statement from Dr Bard is correct. Typically, you have not lent anything substantive to the debate which can effectively refute the statement. He says most Israeli Arabs behave themselves except during this outbreak of violence during which time about 20% of Israel Arabs for the first time did engage in some protest. Your answer is as stupid as you are. You say, Bard is a Zionist. A Zionist is one who supports Jewish survival. Many in this country are Zionists. A Zionist need not be Jewish. If you think you can refute his debunking of ARAB myths, go right ahead – but none of this, it is so because you say it is so. Roger, I know you are an adult, but you don’t act like one. You don’t talk like one. And, you obviously have a screw loose. Israel does not intend to "solve" its social problems. Apartheid is built into the legal and social fabric. The Ashkenazi in Israel have constructed an elaborate system in which they are at the top of a caste system among the Jews there. Roth is Ashkenazi. RLA

Roth is Jewish, not Ashkanazi nor Sephardic – but Jewish and part of the Jewish Peoplehood. There is no apartheid except that which separates the thinking part of your brain from the talking and writing part. Instead of trying to interject something cute – (it won’t happen) – try to substantiate some dependable facts. [1] Have you ever been to Israel? [2] Do you have any Jewish friends (yea, sure) – and [3] were you ever in the military? Anotherwords, did you ever leave Ky? I have spent considerable time in Israel as well as Africa and Asia and I was in the Yom Kipper war in Israel. I wasn’t there to play fiddle sticks. I was in combat zones in the U.S. Army and I know the strategic and military importance of Israel to the U.S. That is a whole other topic and I expect to be posting something to that topic soon in PNEWS.. Anyone here who is interested in this topic can subscribe to the PNEWS symposium (No left wing retrobate minds and no right – or left wing anti-Semites. No idiots – Roger need not apply).. TheGolem http://pnews.org/ Back to the filter for you Roger – unless I feel like humiliating you again.

Response:

###### # # ####### # # ##### # # ## # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ###### ##### # # # ##### # # # ##### # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # # # # # # # # ####### ## ## ##### | Subscribe or Unsubscribe to PNEWS-L — http://pnews.org/signup.shtml | | (Where TRUTH and HONESTY are More Important than Political Persuasion) | | PNEWS-L ARCHIVES -http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/pnews-l.html | | CURRENT EVENTS, NEWS & ARTICLES – http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml | ISRAEL HAS SOME SOCIAL PROBLEMS Israel does have some social problems, but it is also only a half century old. The U.S. also has many social problems and it is over 200 years old. "Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists. During the outbreak of violence in the territories that began in September 2000, Israeli Arabs for the first time engaged in widespread protests with some violence." [Myths & Facts (AICE), 2001 - Human Rights in Israel and the Territories By Dr Mitchell G. Bard] "The United States has been independent for 225 years and still has not integrated all of its diverse communities. Even today, nearly 40 years after civil rights legislation was adopted, discrimination has not been eradicated. It should not be surprising that Israel has not solved all of its social problems in only 53 years." [Bard] A typical myth which one often hears is how Israel discriminates against Israeli Arabs and does not allow them to buy land. This is not true. Israeli Arabs are NOT barred from buying land. "In the early part of the century, the Jewish National Fund was established by the World Zionist Congress to purchase land in Palestine for Jewish settlement. This land, and that acquired after Israel’s War of Independence, was taken over by the government. Of the total area of Israel, 92 percent belongs to the State and is managed by the Land Management Authority. It is not for sale to anyone, Jew or Arab. The remaining 8 percent of the territory is privately owned. The Arab Wakf, for example, owns land that is for the express use and benefit of Muslim Arabs. Government land can be leased by anyone, regardless of race, religion or sex. All Arab citizens of Israel are eligible to lease government land." [Myths & Facts (AICE), 2001 - Human Rights in Israel and the Territories By Dr Mitchell G. Bard] Every state and nation is duty-bound to protect the people who live there. Israel feels that way, as it should. When people are killed by terrorists Israel must go after them. It is not reasonable for the United Nations to condemn Israel when Israel responds aggressively to contain and punish acts of terrorism. "Every nation has a duty to protect its citizens from threats to their lives. No nation would agree to allow its citizens to live under the threat of daily terrorist attack. Israel is no exception." [Ministry of Foreign Affairs-Targeting Terrorists-August 1, 2001] ISRAEL IS BLAMED Israel is very often blamed for the violence. When Palestinians use violence, including machine-gun fire targeted on residential neighborhoods, and fire-bombings, or drive by shooting at bus stops which injured over 15 Israelis this week it is a different kind of violence. Those who are criticizing Israel call this "righteous violence". There is something very illiberal calling ambushes, mortar barrages, suicide bombers and car bombs in crowded shopping areas acceptable violence while Israelis firing back (even when they use rubber bullets to minimize causalties. Israel is accused of using excessive force against "INNOCENT" civilians, whereas all of the above is hardly considered the provocation, which it is. Arab violence has caused hundreds of Israeli deaths and hundreds more wounded. This charge of "excessive" force is a lie. When faced with LIFE-THREATENING attacks from Arabs, only the more sensational attacks are mentioned in the press. The attacks go on with much greater frequency than they are reported. And when this happens there is restraint, the nature of which puts more Israelis, and especially the military, at greater risk. Only those who are responsible for the violence, which is not righteous is targeted by the Israeli police and military. The conspiracy theories coming from the Israeli left and from anti-Semites are unsubstantiated and unsubstantiable. Israel never had an interest towards escalation. Israel has been maintaining its position of "constructive negotiations" up until this latest round which is flagrant rejection by Yasser Arafat and the PA towards the peace process. AND, for as long as there is violence – ISRAEL MUST PROTECT THE LIVES INTERNATIONAL LAW International Law establishes the right of states to respond to hostilities and those persons responsible for the violence cannot then claim immunity and they are NOT innocent civilians; they are terrorists, as well as combatants and forfeit all legal protection. Furthermore it is Israel’s responsibility to PREVENT subsequent attacks even if this means precision targeting of those who have declared themselves combatants by their membership in terrorist groups and carried out said acts of terrorism in the past against the state of Israel. They remain "LEGITIMATE MILITARY TARGETS" until the cessation of violence, i.e. all hostilities against Israel. Israel has implored the PA to arrest terrorists, even supplying names and locations. Because of PA inaction Israel has itself arrested more than a thousand terrorists to bring them to justice. And those who it has proven impossible to arrest Israel has had to counter their future acts by eliminating the source; by taking them out of the equation. This is just something else Israel has every right to do to protect it’s citizens and is continually criticized for doing – for protecting Israelis, with preventative maintenance. And this is a civilized approach – considered in international law a right to carry out preventative OPS against terrorism. ASSASSINATIONS? Israel doesn’t _officially_ condone them. They’re called "extra-judicial killings" and outside the bounds of (officially) approved operations. The accusation is however used with frequency by Arabs when describing pejoratively Israel’s counter-terrorist OPS. "Israel only acts in a manner which is in compliance with the principles and practice of armed conflict, and makes every effort to avoid involvement of innocent civilians, taking action only in conditions where inaction by Israel would result in additional loss of innocent lives." [Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs] SUICIDE BOMBINGS There has been an increase in suicide bombings in the Arab world. Arabs are agitated and motivated to do insane things by their religious leaders. It is a ubiquitous notion that a hero to their cause is someone who is willing to die for that cause. These suicide bombers are inspired by Islamist teachings. How do you negotiate with insane notions? Arab propaganda has been the source of bloody wars and violence for as long as Islamists combine their religious zeal with political objectives. There appears to be NO shortage of volunteers. PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENTS ENCOURAGING VIOLENCE And the propaganda is everywhere, in their textbooks, in their mosques, in their official publications and in their public pronouncements. "The suicide bombings are a legitimate means through which the Palestinians fight the enemy. Their aim is to serve Allah, and through them, they fight for Allah and for the Islamic faith and homeland. The attacks are the command of Allah." [Youssef Jamah, Palestinian Minister of Holy Sites, in an interview on Egyptian Television (April 29, 2001)] Sheikh Nasrallah called on the Palestinians to sacrifice more people, and to carry out Jihad missions, for "they embody the salvation from the occupiers of the pure and holy land, the accomplishment of freedom and the return of the dispersed Palestinians to their homeland. The Zionist entity is a cancerous entity and, therefore, there is no room for compromise with it." [Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, the Secretary General of the Hizbullah (Radio Nur, March 31, 2001)] "You have no place here, on the holy land of Palestine… You will never have security in this place, not even on a single centimeter of this land. This is a call for every Palestinian to turn into a time bomb – to fight them with every means at your disposal." (Al Quds Radio, February 17) – "Kill them! Allah will answer them through your means! I hope that there are those among you who will kill and be killed!" [Khalad Mashal, Hamas (Reuters, February 16, 2001)] "The sacrificial acts to sanctify Allah’s name are designed to attack the personal security of the Israelis. We are not referring to negotiations, but to an occupation that is harming personal security and that is destroying the Zionist society." [Dr. Mahmud Alzahar, a Hamas spokesman (on Internet Site - "Albouaba", April 23)] "Israeli society is a military society, and every person is either a soldier in the Israeli Army or a reserve

Response:

here’s a jew’s own words on the instutional racism built into Israel. And BTW, you’ll notice that Phylis, a jew, refers to the word Zionism that many of us here associate. That is Zionism not as expression of what pnews.org says it is, but Zionism as a white supremicist type calling where this minority of Jews consider themselves superior to all other races and have an inherent right to dominate them. (and in terms of Israel, the right to move all palestinains/arabs off the land they have inhabited for the last 100 years +). I prefer to use a Jewish person to quote, lest anyone else be deemed anti-semetic for their crisitism of Isreal. ttp://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BEN108A.html Racism Inside Israel Phyllis Bennis is interviewed by Max Elbaum Colorlines Magazine, 15 December 2000 Posted at globalresearch.ca 29 August 2001 —- Phyllis Bennis, a longtime analyst and activist around Middle East issues, is now head of the Middle East Project at the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, D.C. She is the author of From Stones to Statehood: The Palestinian Uprising, a book about the Palestinian intifada of the late 1980s, and Calling the Shots: How Washington Dominates Today’s U.N. In this interview, Phyllis analyzes the racist character of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as well as its treatment of Palestinians who live within Israel’s pre-1967 borders. —- ColorLines: What do you see as the root cause of the current Palestinian uprising? Phyllis Bennis: What’s going on right now can be summed up in one word: occupation. Contrary to the U.S. media’s portrayal, the Israeli occupation of Palestine is at the root of what the media at best identify only as a "disproportionate" use of violence by the Israelis on the West Bank and Gaza. Certainly the Israeli troops’ use of helicopter gunships, of machine guns mounted on tanks, and so on is profoundly disproportionate when used against a Palestinian civilian population armed only with stones and some old Kalashnikov rifles. But the real issue is the Israeli military occupation of Palestine–not only that it is inherently violent and a violation of international law and contrary to United Nations resolutions. Even if Israel used only proportionate violence, it would still be absolutely illegal, because the occupation of Palestinian land is illegal. CL: And why is there an occupation? PB: From its origins in the 19th century, Zionism centered on the idea of creating a specifically Jewish state in which Jews would be protected and privileged over non-Jews. Zionist occupation of Palestine was at first meager, amounting to about 10 percent of the population by 1900. By 1947, Jews were still only about 30 percent of the population of Mandate Palestine and owned only six percent of the land, but the UN Partition Resolution that year still assigned 55 percent of the land to a new Jewish state. However, by means of the 1947-48 war, Israel took over even greater expanses of land and forcibly expelled about 750,000 Palestinians. This travesty was the basis for the official founding of the Israeli state in 1948. CL: In this latest intifada, there have been numerous protests by Arabs living within the pre-1967 borders of Israel. What are their numbers and their conditions of life? PB: Inside what is called the "Green Line"–the unofficial borders of Israel before the 1967 war–there are still about one million Palestinians, just under 20 percent of the total Israeli population. Most Palestinians are Muslim, some are Christian. From 1948 to 1966, the Palestinians within Israel lived under explicit military rule. They were considered a military threat to the Israeli state, and they were ruled under a completely different set of laws than the Jewish population. After 1966, military rule was lifted, but it was replaced by a set of Jim Crow-like laws designed to discriminate against Arabs in Israel. According to Adalah, an Arab rights organization, today there are at least 20 laws that specifically provide unequal rights and obligations based on what the Israelis call nationality, which in Israel is defined on the basis of religion. Israelis must carry a card which identifies them as either a Jew, a Muslim, or a Christian. All non-Jews are second class citizens. The Israeli Supreme Court has dismissed virtually all cases which dealt with equal rights for Arab citizens. CL: Can you be more specific about how this discrimination works and what it means? PB: All Israeli citizens, including Palestinians, have the right to vote in elections for members of the Knesset (parliament) and for the prime minister. But not all rights are citizenship rights. Other rights are defined as nationality rights, and are reserved for Jews only. If you are a Jew, you have exclusive use of land, privileged access to private and public employment, special educational loans, home mortgages, preferences for admission to universities, and many other things. Many other special privileges are reserved for those who have served in the Israeli military. And military service is compulsory for all Jews (male and female), except for the ultra-Orthodox who get the same privileges as other Jews, but excludes Palestinians, who do not. Over 80 percent of the land within Israel that was once owned by Palestinians has been confiscated. All told, 93 percent of Israel’s land can only be leased or owned by Jews or Jewish agencies. Moreover, despite Israel’s booming economy, Palestinian unemployment is skyrocketing–Adalah says it is about 40 percent. In 1996 twice as many Arab citizens (28.3 percent) as Jewish citizens (14.4 percent) lived below the poverty line. Less than five percent of government employees are Arab. And eighty percent of all student drop- outs are Arab. There are also vast disparities between Arab towns and Jewish towns in government spending on schools, medical systems, roads and electricity, clean water, and social services. Unlike any other country in the world, Israel does not define itself as a state of its residents, or even a state of its citizens, but as a state of all the Jews in the world. Jews from anywhere in the world, like me, can travel to Israel, declare citizenship, and be granted all the privileges of being Jewish that are denied to Palestinians who have lived in the area for hundreds of years. CL: Are Palestinians within Israel participating in the current uprising? PB: The recent resistance has seen a whole new level of involvement in demonstrations by Palestinians inside the Green Line. They are protesting the discrimination they face in Israel as well as the occupation itself and Israeli brutality against Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza. Such protests are not completely without historical precedent; in 1976 there were a series of demonstrations on what became known as Land Day which protested continuing Israeli seizures of Palestinian land. Six Palestinian demonstrators, citizens of Israel, were killed by Israeli forces. But this time there is a vast increase in the participation of Palestinians inside the Green Line. Their demonstrations have been met with the same brutal military tactics used against Palestinians in the West Bank. So, far 13 Israeli Palestinians have been killed. These tactics are in sharp contrast to the methods used by Israeli authorities in response to demonstrations by Israeli Jews. In 1982, for example, when there was an upsurge of Jewish protests against the Israeli war in Lebanon, one Israeli Jewish protester was killed and there was such an enormous outcry that people remember his name to this day–Emil Grunzweig. But when a Palestinian is killed by Israeli military occupation forces, that is not considered news. We might hear a body count, but we never hear their names, who their parents or children are, what they did for a living. On the West Bank and Gaza, as well as inside the Green Line, police randomly fired live ammunition into crowds of unarmed Arab demonstrators that were throwing stones. The racist double standard is everywhere. A mob of Israeli Jews even attacked the house of an Arab member of the Knesset, Azmi Bishara. But the police would not act against the rioters. Unfortunately, the years of occupation have created, or have allowed to flourish, an incredibly racist vantage point among the majority of Israeli Jews. The majority of Israeli Jews are willing to accept the killing of Palestinians and collective punishment of the Palestinian population as justified state policy. CL: Can you tell us more about Palestinian politics within Israel? PB: Not surprisingly, Palestinians inside Israel have historically felt themselves excluded and disempowered by the Israeli government. The Communist Party of Israel was long a predominantly Arab party and received the vast majority of Palestinian votes. The CP remains strong, but a few Palestinian Knesset members have recently allied themselves to the Labor Party and more and more Palestinians have joined newer nationalist blocs. Azmi Bishara, who leads the Tajamoah (National Democratic) Party, became the first Arab citizen to run for prime minister last year. He and others actually call for the "de- Zionization" of Israel–for the transformation of Israel from a theocratic state privileging the Jewish majority to a democratic, secular state of all its citizens. CL: You are painting a picture of an Israeli government, with the support of a substantial part of its Jewish population, which aims toward permanent subordination of Palestinian Arabs within its borders, along with domination over something that might be called a Palestinian state but what would really amount to a dependent Bantustan. Essentially the same vision that motivated apartheid South Africa.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ###### # # ####### # # ##### # # ## # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ###### ##### # # # ##### # # # ##### # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # # # # # # # # ####### ## ## ##### | Subscribe or Unsubscribe to PNEWS-L — http://pnews.org/signup.shtml | | (Where TRUTH and HONESTY are More Important than Political Persuasion) | | PNEWS-L ARCHIVES -http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/pnews-l.html | | CURRENT EVENTS, NEWS & ARTICLES – http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml | ISRAEL HAS SOME SOCIAL PROBLEMS Israel does have some social problems, but it is also only a half century old. The U.S. also has many social problems and it is over 200 years old. "Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists. During the outbreak of violence in the territories that began in September 2000, Israeli Arabs for the first time engaged in widespread protests with some violence." [Myths & Facts (AICE), 2001 - Human Rights in Israel and the Territories By Dr Mitchell G. Bard]

Bard is a Zionist who put up a phony set of myths and phony debunk. Do a Google search on him for his affinities. RLA "The United States has been independent for 225 years and still has not integrated all of its diverse communities. Even today, nearly 40 years after civil rights legislation was adopted, discrimination has not been eradicated. It should not be surprising that Israel has not solved all of its social problems in only 53 years." [Bard]

Israel does not intend to "solve" its social problems. Apartheid is built into the legal and social fabric. The Ashkenazi in Israel have constructed an elaborate system in which they are at the top of a caste system among the Jews there. Roth is Ashkenazi. RLA A typical myth which one often hears is how Israel discriminates against Israeli Arabs and does not allow them to buy land. This is not true. Israeli Arabs are NOT barred from buying land.

Just barred from buying or leasing some 92% of the land, that’s all. RLA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "In the early part of the century, the Jewish National Fund was established by the World Zionist Congress to purchase land in Palestine for Jewish settlement. This land, and that acquired after Israel’s War of Independence, was taken over by the government. Of the total area of Israel, 92 percent belongs to the State and is managed by the Land Management Authority. It is not for sale to anyone, Jew or Arab. The remaining 8 percent of the territory is privately owned. The Arab Wakf, for example, owns land that is for the express use and benefit of Muslim Arabs. Government land can be leased by anyone, regardless of race, religion or sex. All Arab citizens of Israel are eligible to lease government land." [Myths & Facts (AICE), 2001 - Human Rights in Israel and the Territories By Dr Mitchell G. Bard] Every state and nation is duty-bound to protect the people who live there. Israel feels that way, as it should. When people are killed by terrorists Israel must go after them. It is not reasonable for the United Nations to condemn Israel when Israel responds aggressively to contain and punish acts of terrorism.

One of the most striking characteristics of zionist propagandists is their inability to deal with the real world. In the real world, Zionists have struggled for more than 100 years to take all the land of Palestine (and surrounding territory as they could) from the Palestinians. The terror that Israel experiences is the direct result of Israeli oppression of the Palestinians. Everyone here including Roth knows this. His posting ignoring this means only that he is deliberately lying, and lying big time. RLA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Every nation has a duty to protect its citizens from threats to their lives. No nation would agree to allow its citizens to live under the threat of daily terrorist attack. Israel is no exception." [Ministry of Foreign Affairs-Targeting Terrorists-August 1, 2001] ISRAEL IS BLAMED Israel is very often blamed for the violence. When Palestinians use violence, including machine-gun fire targeted on residential neighborhoods, and fire-bombings, or drive by shooting at bus stops which injured over 15 Israelis this week it is a different kind of violence. Those who are criticizing Israel call this "righteous violence". There is something very illiberal calling ambushes, mortar barrages, suicide bombers and car bombs in crowded shopping areas acceptable violence while Israelis firing back (even when they use rubber bullets to minimize causalties. Israel is accused of using excessive force against "INNOCENT" civilians, whereas all of the above is hardly considered the provocation, which it is. Arab violence has caused hundreds of Israeli deaths and hundreds more wounded. This charge of "excessive" force is a lie. When faced with LIFE-THREATENING attacks from Arabs, only the more sensational attacks are mentioned in the press. The attacks go on with much greater frequency than they are reported. And when this happens there is restraint, the nature of which puts more Israelis, and especially the military, at greater risk. Only those who are responsible for the violence, which is not righteous is targeted by the Israeli police and military. The conspiracy theories coming from the Israeli left and from anti-Semites are unsubstantiated and unsubstantiable. Israel never had an interest towards escalation. Israel has been maintaining its position of "constructive negotiations" up until this latest round which is flagrant rejection by Yasser Arafat and the PA towards the peace process. AND, for as long as there is violence – ISRAEL MUST PROTECT THE LIVES

Cart before the horse, as usual. The Palestinians didn’t commit any violence until Israel made it pellucidly clear that they weren’t going to have a country of their own. Israel is a perfectly horrible country and her propagandists are the very scum of the earth. RLA INTERNATIONAL LAW International Law establishes the right of states to respond to hostilities and those persons responsible for the violence cannot then claim immunity and they are NOT innocent civilians; they are terrorists, as well as combatants and forfeit all legal protection.

Israel honors international law only when it is to her advantage. I cannot recount the number of times when crazy Zionist posters here have scorned international law. RLa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Furthermore it is Israel’s responsibility to PREVENT subsequent attacks even if this means precision targeting of those who have declared themselves combatants by their membership in terrorist groups and carried out said acts of terrorism in the past against the state of Israel. They remain "LEGITIMATE MILITARY TARGETS" until the cessation of violence, i.e. all hostilities against Israel. Israel has implored the PA to arrest terrorists, even supplying names and locations. Because of PA inaction Israel has itself arrested more than a thousand terrorists to bring them to justice. And those who it has proven impossible to arrest Israel has had to counter their future acts by eliminating the source; by taking them out of the equation. This is just something else Israel has every right to do to protect it’s citizens and is continually criticized for doing – for protecting Israelis, with preventative maintenance. And this is a civilized approach – considered in international law a right to carry out preventative OPS against terrorism. ASSASSINATIONS? Israel doesn’t _officially_ condone them. They’re called "extra-judicial killings" and outside the bounds of (officially) approved operations. The accusation is however used with frequency by Arabs when describing pejoratively Israel’s counter-terrorist OPS. "Israel only acts in a manner which is in compliance with the principles and practice of armed conflict, and makes every effort to avoid involvement of innocent civilians, taking action only in conditions where inaction by Israel would result in additional loss of innocent lives." [Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs] SUICIDE BOMBINGS There has been an increase in suicide bombings in the Arab world. Arabs are agitated and motivated to do insane things by their religious leaders. It is a ubiquitous notion that a hero to their cause is someone who is willing to die for that cause. These suicide bombers are inspired by Islamist teachings. How do you negotiate with insane notions? Arab propaganda has been the source of bloody wars and violence for as long as Islamists combine their religious zeal with political objectives. There appears to be NO shortage of volunteers. PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENTS ENCOURAGING VIOLENCE And the propaganda is everywhere, in their textbooks, in their mosques, in their official publications and in their public pronouncements. "The suicide bombings are a legitimate means through which the Palestinians fight the enemy. Their aim is to serve Allah, and through them, they fight for Allah and for the Islamic faith

Response:

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Activism Change

Learn, read, react :: Activism