Activism Change

Fact or Factitious?*

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems the evolutionary religionists need to check their dictionaries before they begin to spout of at the mouth.  Evolution is not a fact because it cannot be supported by any evidence [...] UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM 1. "I’m right and you are wrong". 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are. 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults. 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological, or verbal, at all times as defensive 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed into a corner in an argument 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused. 7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of error and correction as part of God’s personal plan for you and not as a something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except verbally and secretly to God himself 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God’s plans for the world.  Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will for the betterment of mankind. 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it. 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and oppose all such information through classification of such information in a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing propaganda) 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is complex and there are shades of grey 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you don’t have that right anyhow. UNWRITTEN RULES OF Evolutionary FUNDAMENTALISM

Damn funny. Doesn’t have much to do with the real world, though. 1. "I’m right and you are wrong".

1. I’m usually right, but that’s kismet. When you start telling BS, you’re most probably wrong about other things, too, so care is advised. 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.

2. I admit all the time I was wrong about something. If I’m proved wrong (and not with creationist "evidence", but with hard facts), then I’ll concede my mistake. 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.

3. Doesn’t apply to me, I always have something to say. *snicker* 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological, or verbal, at all times as defensive

4. I’m not violent. 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed into a corner in an argument

5. You can’t corner me, except maybe overwhelm me with bait-and-switch BS. 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.

6. BS. 7. When forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of error and correction as part of a natural scientific process and not as something for which science should apologise retract or make amends.

7. Michael, science books (incl. textbooks) and websites are *full* of examples where science was wrong and has been corrected! They don’t say "Science knows everything and never errs!". Science doesn’t want to steal the fundies’ jobs. 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of an accident of natural processes.  Recognise that even your errors are just part of a natural process and with more lucky accidents of nature, will be for the betterment of mankind or whatever it may finally evolve into.

8. I don’t see myself as an accident, but as a person. Chaotic processes have lead to my existence, but here I am. My character evolves, and that’s a good thing. Yours doesn’t? 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.

9. I don’t profess a lot. I don’t need a lot of fancy material things, either (For most of what I own, utility counts) 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and oppose all such information through classification of such information in a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as religious, not scientific)

10. I recently read many articles on www.trueorigin.org (contradicts your first claim, that I wouldn’t bother to hear other opinions), a site that could mostly be renamed to www.bullsh*t.org if you ask me. Nevertheless, there was one article where the author, Peter Gurney, argued that the inverted retina is better suited to terrestrial vertebrates than a verted one would be. I found it convincing, and in the future, I won’t claim that the inverted retina makes no sense. 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is complex and there are shades of grey

11. And what would this middle ground between young earthism and evolution theory be? They’re pretty much totally incompatible. Btw, I wouldn’t claim that there was no divine intervention of any kind in evolution or abiogenesis, or the origin of the Universe. What I claim is that (especially for evolution) no divine intervention is *required*. And there’s lots of evidence for that assumption, but you won’t see it. 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you don’t have that right anyhow.

12. If you knew what I have already forgiven. — Arne Vogel

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fact or Factitious? Fact(n.): 1. Something having existance supported by evidence, and actuality. 2. Truth; reality. Factitious(adj.):  Artificial; false. It seems the evolutionary religionists need to check their dictionaries before they begin to spout of at the mouth.  Evolution is not a fact because it cannot be supported by any evidence(except the opinions and suppositions of the true believers and that is only resident in their minds) and that is a fact because it is truth and reality.  It appears the evolutionary religion is more factitious as being artificial and false according to the wordbook definitions. You have missed the game, they define evolution as herible genetic change so that they can say that it is a fact (no one can dispute that).  No one disputes their carefully defined fact, but that does not prove that tomatoe plants and giraffes have a common ancestor which is what they really want to assert, yet lack the evidence to prove it.  By the bait and switch of ‘heritable genetic change’ their ‘fact’ is morphed into a belief of blind faith. Reading the myriad of posts by people who are so indoctrinated with artificial and false "facts" has been a disturbing exercise.  So many have been dupped and lead down the garden path of factitiousness that our country is in jeopardy of actually practicing real science. True, science has bee hyjacked and restricted to known natural causes when science doesn’t yet know all of the natural causes possible, and invalidates unknown natural causes. Much of what we see today is pseudo-science such as the human back bone structure. Evolutionary religionist doctors have for many years done more harm to people with injured backs because evolution taught them that we once walked on on fours(knuckle-walking) and when evolution got done with us we ended up with a mis-shaped backbone.  Injured people were told to try and remove the lumbar curve in order to heal.  All this led to was thousands of back injured people worse off than if nothing had been done to them.

Myriads of such follies are committed by religious folks. Tee hee hee, I once talked to an evolutoinists who told me that a pain in the back might really be a problem with the liver, but it felt that way because one of our common ancestors might have had a liver there, so that is why we think it is a back problem.

We see here that ignorance is not limited to creationists, although the latter display an unusual concentration of it. As an engineer one look at the human backbone shows almost perfect design for its function.  It is not the product of millions of years of

Yes, for example my brother had such a bad case of scoliosis that he had to had a massive surgery. And most people experience back pain sometimes. Perfect design! knuckle-walking but is designed for upright position and bipedal locomotion and there is nothing else in nature that even comes close to God’s perfect work in this design. Engineers are applied scientists, the can usually see through the  the religious ivory tower of might have, could have, must have been a common ancestor mantra.

Aha. So you want engineers to discuss the origin of species and biologists to build skyscrapers? Yes, evolution(goo -to-you) is not only stupid but it is dangerous.  If you are having back problems and a evolutionary religionist doctor wants to treat you, find a Christian doctor who knows God’s handiwork.  You will be glad you did.

Certainly. That’s why the Amish spend most of their money on secular medicine. Good advice, notwithstanding the fallacies of scientific evolution hypothesis, the implications of religious evolutionism applied to phychology, medicine, socialogy, ecomonics, and morality are indeed dangerous to mankind.  Our children are indoctroniated that there have a common ancestor with apes, and then people wonder why children act like animals.

The economical idea preceded "Origin of Species". The inventors of "Social Darwinism" (neither social nor Darwinism) then picked the cherries out of the book to defend their privileges. Modern ET offers a lot of insight into our nature, but not a lot of support for capitalism. E.g. "eat or be eaten" is not a ubiquitous concept in nature at all. Most creatures "eat and are eaten", and predators do not displace non-predators (different ecological niches). Cannibalism is virtually non-existent in nature, few species practice it, and even among those that do, it’s the exception rather than the rule. This is in accordance with ET since a high rate of cannibalism increases the likelihood of a species’ extinction. Furthermore, the higher a species is in the food chain, the more likely it is to be extinguished by a global catastrophe (see: dinosaurs and the Chicxulub meteor). Also, modern ET acknowledges that there is no general "upwards" trend, only an adaptive trend in natural selection. Applied to capitalism, this means that not the "best" companies ’survive’, but rather those that are best adapted to their economical (and legal) environment. In particular, it suggests that a talent of cheating can have a survival advantage, which robs social darwinists of an important ‘moral’ argument. The root of the problem, in my opinion, is the success of the missionaries of evolution that evolution is a fact that has not been proven nor has to be proven.  The consequences are enormous and justification for breaking the 10 commandments. For example:

I guess you do not accept bacteria becoming resistant to synthetic antibiotics or able to digest nylon, or the diversification of wild cabbage into cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, white cabbage and kohlrabi as observed facts. You speak of "proven", but have obviously no idea what it means. Proofs are used in mathematics to show the validity of logical conclusions. In (natural) sciences, theories are used to explain observations. Theories that are in accordance with the observations and of minimum complexity among all theories that explain the observations (Occam’s Razor) are accepted. Theories that contradict the observations, have no experimental value (falsifiability) or have no empirical support at all are rejected. That’s why ET is accepted by 99% of biologists, and "creation theory" (there is no such thing actually, since nothing creationists offer is really falsifiable, much of it has been falsified but that doesn’t stop ‘em) is rejected. Creation          Evolution Man created perfect,       Man morphed by accident from a common ancestor fallen to sin and       with slugs and is evolving toward perfection, needs a Saviour         there is no need for a saviour.

You’re equating evolution theory with atheism! How stupid! Furthermore, "by accident" is just creationist hogwash for actual evolutionary mechanisms (mutation, selection, genetic drift etc.), of which selection at least is clearly not random. Law of the Creator         Law is evolving, as man becomes more perfect, determines what is right      law will improv.  Right and wrong are determined and what is wrong.         by democratic vote giving ’satan and God’ equal The rule of law.        value. The rule of political special interest.

Thank you! You just demonstrated that you despise democracy (and by your belief that ET or atheism has to do with your imaginary "Satan", that you’re a religious nut). See whether that aids to further your cause in any of the western democracies! And I agree that a fair deal of political power goes to "special interests". I don’t think this is a good thing, though. Reliance upon a fixed         Reliance upon the church of what’s happening now standard to avoid the         Ignorance of the past and open to repeat the mistakes of the past       mistakes of the past.

What mistakes? Witch burnings? You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Education and ability to      Entertained and able to repeat mantras and read and understand the    soundbytes. Word of God

Have you seen those Talibanese Qu’ran schools? That’s your idea of education? The kids teeter forth and back while humming mantras from scripture. Great! Train people to lead       Train people to follow, unable to ask questions and ability for critical   of the cult.   Must be a PhD to have a valid opinion. thinking

Critical opinion! Compare the debate climate on t.o and one of your favorite censored bible pages, and you know who’s more into critical thinking. God is King, Judge and Lawgiver  What is a god? Man is king, judge, lawgiver

Man is king, judge and lawgiver, *no matter whether with or without religion*. That doesn’t entitle man to abuse his power (naturalistic fallacy). Christ is King of kings    Christ allowed to be King of just the church and Lord of lords       as long as He remains silent outside of church.

Christ remains silent everywhere. I only hear *Christians* speaking. Separation of state and church exists for a reason! Man was created for purpose      Man is an ‘accident’ with no purpose.

Man has no "natural" purpose. Man must seek purpose for himself. Man need not say "Me too stoopid to think of purpose, want to have purpose imposed on me." God is just          Any god is the creation by political man.

English that in sentence does mean? Establish the Kingdom of      Establish Utopia by human effort. God by His Law and Word

Not a utopia (impossible), but a better world. Problems don’t solve themselves by wishing them away. Conduct affairs under the     The end justifies the means. rule of His law

What a rubbish! Maybe, if the ends are human rights, ending … read more »

Response:

No, just reflecting the facts of the matter. But thanks for the compliment.

"Facts" and "creationism" obviously are incompatible with each other… …or can you prove to us the opposite? If so, go ahead! I’m always willing to listen to good arguments… IF they are good.

Response:

In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article It seems the evolutionary religionists need to check their dictionaries before they begin to spout of at the mouth.  Evolution is not a fact because it cannot be supported by any evidence [...] UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM 1. "I’m right and you are wrong". 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are. 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults. 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological, or verbal, at all times as defensive 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed into a corner in an argument 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused. 7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of error and correction as part of God’s personal plan for you and not as a something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except verbally and secretly to God himself 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God’s plans for the world.  Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will for the betterment of mankind. 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it. 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and oppose all such information through classification of such information in a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing propaganda) 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is complex and there are shades of grey 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you don’t have that right anyhow. UNWRITTEN RULES OF Evolutionary FUNDAMENTALISM 1. "I’m right and you are wrong". 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are. 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults. 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological, or verbal, at all times as defensive 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed into a corner in an argument 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused. 7. When forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of error and correction as part of a natural scientific process and not as something for which science should apologise retract or make amends. 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of an accident of natural processes.  Recognise that even your errors are just part of a natural process and with more lucky accidents of nature, will be for the betterment of mankind or whatever it may finally evolve into. 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it. 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and oppose all such information through classification of such information in a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as religious, not scientific ) 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is complex and there are shades of grey 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you don’t have that right anyhow. Gee, aren’t you clever? No, just reflecting the facts of the matter. But thanks for the compliment.

I guess you aren’t bright enough to realize I wasn’t complimenting you. Dave Fritzinger

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article It seems the evolutionary religionists need to check their dictionaries before they begin to spout of at the mouth.  Evolution is not a fact because it cannot be supported by any evidence [...] UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM 1. "I’m right and you are wrong". 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are. 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults. 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological, or verbal, at all times as defensive 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed into a corner in an argument 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused. 7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of error and correction as part of God’s personal plan for you and not as a something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except verbally and secretly to God himself 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God’s plans for the world.  Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will for the betterment of mankind. 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it. 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and oppose all such information through classification of such information in a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing propaganda) 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is complex and there are shades of grey 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you don’t have that right anyhow. UNWRITTEN RULES OF Evolutionary FUNDAMENTALISM 1. "I’m right and you are wrong". 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are. 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults. 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological, or verbal, at all times as defensive 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed into a corner in an argument 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused. 7. When forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of error and correction as part of a natural scientific process and not as something for which science should apologise retract or make amends. 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of an accident of natural processes.  Recognise that even your errors are just part of a natural process and with more lucky accidents of nature, will be for the betterment of mankind or whatever it may finally evolve into. 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it. 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and oppose all such information through classification of such information in a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as religious, not scientific ) 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is complex and there are shades of grey 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you don’t have that right anyhow. Gee, aren’t you clever?

No, just reflecting the facts of the matter. But thanks for the compliment. — Michael People who don

Filed under: Human Rights

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