Dear Jackie

Question:

Not to be contrary, really, but that is "Froehliche" Weinachten.  (my husband read these post’s and requested that I post to this.  (Germans are so picky) Alles, Alles Gute!

No problem – any help with the language is very much appreciated! :c) Judy

Response:

I am having a wonderful day.. all my work is done and I can settle down.. We are waiting for the daughter to arrive and we can open our presents.. I’m so glad Jackie… that you have recieved peace of mind.  Big hugs for you.

You know what Jeannette, a whole new bunch of worries start up.. If you let them.. I do not like the closed system.. I am beginning to like it less and less.. That is not saying I like the way it is now tho.. Jackie

Response:

I do not like the closed system.. I am beginning to like it less and less.. That is not saying I like the way it is now tho..

I know, and I can relate. And I do understand that you are arguing for semi-open over open, not closed over open. Heather open adoption bmom

Response:

[snip] What is your opinion of the *child* being visited by the bparents and the half brothers and sisters?

So what do you want, the bmother to live secrets and lies…..hide her family…wait until her achild and later children are all adults and then have a coming out party? Or are you looking at it from your experience and expect the later children to celebrate that the awful past is now solved because you have begun reuniting with your ason? Hmmm…do you think maybe your children might not just resent your ason and his family since their childhood was impacted from the get go because of his existence? What have you resolved as far as who the father is….you must by now, have some idea if he is of your past lover or the rapist just by seeing his picture. The child is expected to play and have tea with his or her brothers

Come on Jackie, don’t/didn’t your kids play with their cousins, this isn’t much different, give children credit of more resourcefulness than your mind seems to conjure up…. IMOHO you still don’t get it because you still want every adoption in the present to be based on your experience where you still feel the CHOICE was not yours. Wake-Up it is almost year 2000…..society and information is ever changing and adoption is not in the 60’s dark shadows. Yes there is much to be challenged still but you are still trying to fit it into your past. Just what kind of tea party are you planning if you ever get to meet your ason’s children???? Hmmm maybe they won’t be able to process it…. you best just leave it to letters and not meet them. Dolly [snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jackie C

Response:

I’m Canadian and here it’s Merry Christmas but when I talk with my German roots Froelick Wieneachten goes over well. :c)

Not to be contrary, really, but that is "Froehliche" Weinachten.  (my husband read these post’s and requested that I post to this.  (Germans are so picky) Alles, Alles Gute! JuliaR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Merry Christmas ! or as we say in my Adoptive Belgium Culture, "Zalig Kertsmis" German, "Froelich Wieneachten" Hawian, "Mele Kalikimaka" In Czech, "Vesele vanoce" Heather open adoption bmom "Kde se pivo pije, tam se dobje zije" (Where the people drink beer, there life is good.)

Response:

C.) writes: I hope you are having a merry xmas..

You bet. I love hanging around with my DHs family (not).  Christmas is wonderful- especially the day after.  :)   I am having a wonderful day.. all my work is done and I can settle down.. We are waiting for the daughter to arrive and we can open our presents..

I’m so glad Jackie… that you have recieved peace of mind.  Big hugs for you. Jeannette, Bmom There ain’t no answer. There ain’t going to be any answer. There never has been an answer. That’s the answer. Gertrude Stein (1874-1946)

Response:

live in Canada.. I am 57 years old and I am going to get to move to the country soon.. I am also an uneducated woman.. I am a painter, an artist.. Jackie, you speak from your heart, to me that is educated.  An artist? Sensitive and creative, it shows in your postings.  

Thanks Linda I am intimidated by politicians or person that can say things in a very learned manner.. I would be of no use to anyone wanting to make changes.. I got all the National Geographic’s on CD.. for xmas..Cant wait to sit and go thru them I hope you are having a nice xmas. Jackie C

Response:

YEAH Ron, and just think YOU supplied the hammer….. thank GOD!

Is Ron an adoptee? That would explain the hammer.. Linda bmom of the 60’s, mom of the 90’s DIPLOMACY…the art of saying *nice doggie*, till you find the rock.

Response:

C.) writes:

I said: Hey, it’s way better than sniveling and whining.  Jackie has come a long way here, and she will continue to grow.  She’ll get it.  I have a lot of faith in her.  :) You mean I am not stupid?

Did I say that?  :) Jeannette, Bmom There ain’t no answer. There ain’t going to be any answer. There never has been an answer. That’s the answer. Gertrude Stein (1874-1946)

Response:

I’m Canadian and here it’s Merry Christmas but when I talk with my German roots Froelick Wieneachten goes over well. :c)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Merry Christmas ! or as we say in my Adoptive Belgium Culture, "Zalig Kertsmis" German, "Froelich Wieneachten" Hawian, "Mele Kalikimaka" In Czech, "Vesele vanoce" Heather open adoption bmom "Kde se pivo pije, tam se dobje zije" (Where the people drink beer, there life is good.)

Response:

C.) writes: I said: Hey, it’s way better than sniveling and whining.  Jackie has come a long way here, and she will continue to grow.  She’ll get it.  I have a lot of faith in her.  :) You mean I am not stupid? Did I say that?  :)

I hope you are having a merry xmas.. I am having a wonderful day.. all my work is done and I can settle down.. We are waiting for the daughter to arrive and we can open our presents.. Jackie The stupid bit is me commenting on how some here think that if a person is smart they will be okay.. Or something like that.. So I am enjoying calling me stupid..

Response:

[snip] What is your opinion of the *child* being visited by the bparents and the half brothers and sisters? So what do you want, the bmother to live secrets and lies…..hide her family…wait until her achild and later children are all adults and then have a coming out party?

No.. I do not think the family should be breached in the first place.. Or are you looking at it from your experience and expect the later children to celebrate that the awful past is now solved because you have begun reuniting with your ason?

I am looking at the real issues a child that is relinquished, goes through.. Hmmm…do you think maybe your children might not just resent your ason and his family since their childhood was impacted from the get go because of his existence?

Wait.. I am a bmom.. not an amom.. And I agree the issues of the children that were kept is something that should be discussed too.. A child thinking well she may give me away too.. What have you resolved as far as who the father is….you must by now, have some idea if he is of your past lover or the rapist just by seeing his picture.

I don’t want to go into that.. The child is expected to play and have tea with his or her brothers Come on Jackie, don’t/didn’t your kids play with their cousins, this isn’t much different, give children credit of more resourcefulness than your mind seems to conjure up….

As I just said the issues are not that simple.. IMOHO you still don’t get it because you still want every adoption in the present to be based on your experience where you still feel the CHOICE was not yours.

No.. I want the secret adoptions stopped.. I want very experienced person overseeing every adoption.. I want everyones issues looked at.. Wake-Up it is almost year 2000…..society and information is ever changing and adoption is not in the 60’s dark shadows. Yes there is much to be challenged still but you are still trying to fit it into your past.

I think it is in dark shadows.. They are buying and selling babies on the internet.. I think.. Just what kind of tea party are you planning if you ever get to meet your ason’s children????

bsons.. not a sons.. I am not planning.. I am living one day at a time.. Hmmm maybe they won’t be able to process it…. you best just leave it to letters and not meet them. Dolly

I don’t know.. I am open for anything my bson wants to do.. it is his ballpark.. Jackie C

Response:

live in Canada.. I am 57 years old and I am going to get to move to the country soon.. I am also an uneducated woman.. I am a painter, an artist..

Jackie, you speak from your heart, to me that is educated.  An artist? Sensitive and creative, it shows in your postings.   Linda bmom of the 60’s, mom of the 90’s DIPLOMACY…the art of saying *nice doggie*, till you find the rock.

Response:

[snip]

(huge snip) Talk about hitting the nail on the head!!!!!!! IMOHO you still don’t get it because you still want every adoption in the present to be based on your experience where you still feel the CHOICE was not yours. Wake-Up it is almost year 2000…..society and information is ever changing and adoption is not in the 60’s dark shadows. Yes there is much to be challenged still but you are still trying to fit it into your past. Dolly

Didn’t take you long to figure her out! Good work! :)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] (huge snip) Talk about hitting the nail on the head!!!!!!! IMOHO you still don’t get it because you still want every adoption in the present to be based on your experience where you still feel the CHOICE was not yours.

YEAH Ron, and just think YOU supplied the hammer….. thank GOD!

Response:

writes: Your own anger although, perhaps, justified, is defeating you. You can rant and rave, scream and cajole, complain and moan on this NG untill hell freezes over. One thing is for certain, You will not bring about any significant change whatsoever.

Hey, it’s way better than sniveling and whining.  Jackie has come a long way here, and she will continue to grow.  She’ll get it.  I have a lot of faith in her.  :) Jeannette, Bmom There ain’t no answer. There ain’t going to be any answer. There never has been an answer. That’s the answer. Gertrude Stein (1874-1946)

Response:

writes: Your own anger although, perhaps, justified, is defeating you. You can rant and rave, scream and cajole, complain and moan on this NG untill hell freezes over. One thing is for certain, You will not bring about any significant change whatsoever. Hey, it’s way better than sniveling and whining.  Jackie has come a long way here, and she will continue to grow.  She’ll get it.  I have a lot of faith in her.  :)

You mean I am not stupid? Jackie C

Response:

Ohhh goodie.. Dear Jackie ,      I have read with much interest and concern your posts. They are for the most part interesting, stimulating.

I think I am.. I am told I am.. It’s quite obvious that you are a very passionate, personal advocate for BMothers rights.

Don’t forget children’s rights.. Somehow, I feel your trapped in a sea of overwhelming anger and resentment to the Adoption process as a whole.

I hate that a man or woman has to relinquish his or her child.. Hate it to a degree.. that it could make my nutty… No ! I am not interested nor, do I have the inclination to, engage in trite little flame wars over passionate opinions that have no ability to bring about any significant change.

So I am to go back to my corner and shut the hell up then? I live in Canada.. I am 57 years old and I am going to get to move to the country soon.. I am also an uneducated woman.. I am a painter, an artist.. What change can I make other than posting my opinions and thoughts in a public place? The only ongoing process I see is a very bitter and defensive individual seeking the alliance of other BirthMothers,

I do not want alliances with other bmoms.. to defend her position on Bmothers rights.

I do not think it right that the bmoms or bdads have no rights in the open scenario.. Ya I know in some states.. but I think those rights only extend to visiting, please someone correct me if I am wrong.. I have yet to see anyone challenge or minimize those rights.

What about the issue of the bmom signing the papers hours after the baby is born.. She is still drugged.. Does she have rights? I think not.. A society that condones such a thing is not a very good society in my books.. the only thing that is apparent to me, is that some have a different perspective on the application or institutionalization of those rights.

I think bmoms are led down a garden path in the good old USA, Canada too probably.. from the first contact with an agency.. or a planned parenthood place.. to the open scenario as it stands now.. in some sates.. Furthermore, I agree with you on many, if not most of, your perspectives regarding those Human rights. Your own anger although, perhaps, justified, is defeating you.

I DON’T CARE!!!! You can rant and rave, scream and cajole, complain and moan on this NG untill hell freezes over.

I know, bmoms are still expected to sign the darn papers hours after the baby is born.. And they are expected to choose the aparents.. One thing is for certain, You will not bring about any significant change whatsoever.

I do not have a cross to pull down the street.. sorry.. I dont have a hair shirt either… In short, your strategies to bring about real effective, dynamic change and progress for the Rights of Bmothers is being sabotaged by your own emotional response.

I DON’T CARE!!!!     No legislator or Social Worker is going to read your posts and say, "Hey! we gotta make some changes regarding bmothers rights, just check out these posts" Sorry! It don’t happen that way.

You have me confused with someone that thinks she can make a change.. I have no such illusions.. I think that it is way out of control.. heck..now babies are bought and sold on the internet.. I think changes need to occur as well. I am as strong, if not a stronger advocate for Adoptees rights.

What is your opinion of the *child* being visited by the bparents and the half brothers and sisters? The child is expected to play and have tea with his or her brothers and sisters.. Do you think that healthy for the child? Finally, I challenge you openly, on this NG to Identify 3, (only 3) means or methods of helping to bring about significant real change for Bmothers rights.

Sorry.. we are the breeders.. We are too stupid.. Methods that are easily obtainable, executeable, and swift.

It is not going to happen.. The good old USA allow private adoptions. Canada probably does too.. I honestly believe the secrets and lies are worse now.. The old bait and switch, is what I see..     Do that, and I will be at your side and willing to march right into Hell along side you.

Awe.. Can’t we just march into hell anyway? On the other hand, persisting to act like a blameless, hysterical, out of control birthmother, ready to pounce on the least little thing said that you don’t agree with, only serves to alienate Adoptees and Adoptors.

(sigh) I once was one of the CB.. Check out deja news.. I have been hammered on here.. more than once.. Birth Mothers need the Legal, Political and Sociological support of the entire triad to bring about any REAL social change.

This whole damn industry of buying and selling of children, needs to be shut down.. .. And then proper persons put in charge.. But that costs too much money.. and hey.. the tax incentives are on the adoptive parents side, they get deductions in the thousands.. And the lobby for this deduction is headed by …… wait for it.. Adoptive parents.. United we stand, Devided we fall. Are you a devider? or a uniter?

I hate the whole damn system.. Are you someone who really has what it takes to organize a real attack against an obviously unjust system?

No I intend to be a little old lady that does needlepoint.. and watercolors.. or are you really just a whinnig, complaining, hysterical, powerless, little girl who’s gonna go home crying cause, someone broke your jump rope. I’d like to think that your a very persuasive, intelligent, progressive woman that should be taken seriously. Someone, who can get things done!

Sorry I am moving to the country.. I am going to spend my days.. happy.. now.. Jackie C

Response:

How do say that Phonetically! My Brother was adopted by a Czech Family, I’m gonna surprise his Mom.

ves-uh-lay      van-ohts-seh And, "dobry den" to you! (dub-ree den= Good day) Heather open adoption bmom

Response:

How do say that Phonetically! My Brother was adopted by a Czech Family, I’m gonna surprise his Mom. ves-uh-lay      van-ohts-seh And, "dobry den" to you! (dub-ree den= Good day)

  Heyyyyy… you can’t fool ME! I know PIG LATIN when I see it. Ghoulagirl Well, it really don’t matter much where you are ‘Cause home is in your heart It’s a feeling that you wake with one day.  - Phil Collins.

Response:

Merry Christmas ! or as we say in my Adoptive Belgium Culture, "Zalig Kertsmis" German, "Froelich Wieneachten" Hawian, "Mele Kalikimaka"

In Czech, "Vesele vanoce" Heather open adoption bmom "Kde se pivo pije, tam se dobje zije" (Where the people drink beer, there life is good.)

Response:

How do say that Phonetically! My Brother was adopted by a Czech Family, I’m gonna surprise his Mom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Merry Christmas ! or as we say in my Adoptive Belgium Culture, "Zalig Kertsmis" German, "Froelich Wieneachten" Hawian, "Mele Kalikimaka" In Czech, "Vesele vanoce" Heather open adoption bmom "Kde se pivo pije, tam se dobje zije" (Where the people drink beer, there life is good.)

Response:

Dear Jackie ,       I have read with much interest and concern your posts. They are for the most part interesting, stimulating. It’s quite obvious that you are a very passionate, personal advocate for BMothers rights. Somehow, I feel your trapped in a sea of overwhelming anger and resentment to the Adoption process as a whole. No ! I am not interested nor, do I have the inclination to, engage in trite little flame wars over passionate opinions that have no ability to bring about any significant change. The only ongoing process I see is a very bitter and defensive individual seeking the alliance of other BirthMothers, to defend her position on Bmothers rights. I have yet to see anyone challenge or minimize those rights. the only thing that is apparent to me, is that some have a different perspective on the application or institutionalization of those rights. Furthermore, I agree with you on many, if not most of, your perspectives regarding those Human rights. Your own anger although, perhaps, justified, is defeating you. You can rant and rave, scream and cajole, complain and moan on this NG untill hell freezes over. One thing is for certain, You will not bring about any significant change whatsoever. In short, your strategies to bring about real effective, dynamic change and progress for the Rights of Bmothers is being sabotaged by your own emotional response.      No legislator or Social Worker is going to read your posts and say, "Hey! we gotta make some changes regarding bmothers rights, just check out these posts" Sorry! It don’t happen that way. I think changes need to occur as well. I am as strong, if not a stronger advocate for Adoptees rights. Finally, I challenge you openly, on this NG to Identify 3, (only 3) means or methods of helping to bring about significant real change for Bmothers rights. Methods that are easily obtainable, executeable, and swift.      Do that, and I will be at your side and willing to march right into Hell along side you. On the other hand, persisting to act like a blameless, hysterical, out of control birthmother, ready to pounce on the least little thing said that you don’t agree with, only serves to alienate Adoptees and Adoptors. Birth Mothers need the Legal, Political and Sociological support of the entire triad to bring about any REAL social change. United we stand, Devided we fall. Are you a devider? or a uniter? Are you someone who really has what it takes to organize a real attack against an obviously unjust system? or are you really just a whinnig, complaining, hysterical, powerless, little girl who’s gonna go home crying cause, someone broke your jump rope. I’d like to think that your a very persuasive, intelligent, progressive woman that should be taken seriously. Someone, who can get things done! Merry Christmas ! or as we say in my Adoptive Belgium Culture, "Zalig Kertsmis" German, "Froelich Wieneachten" Hawian, "Mele Kalikimaka"

Response:

Filed under: Human Rights

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