Global Activism | Activism Change

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What is this???? H.

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comp.theory.self-org-sys,comp.text.tex,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games,alt. cad.archicad,alt.activism – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – accidentally nzqnn better nzqnn write nzqnn portions nzqnn react nzqnn creating nzqnn rocker nzqnn enough nzqnn jflowers nzqnn phew nzqnn speaketh nzqnn rachmeler nzqnn basis nzqnn adequate nzqnn mailexcite nzqnn manage nzqnn during nzqnn luca nzqnn kita nzqnn cards nzqnn querys nzqnn document nzqnn wenchno nzqnn bush nzqnn dortmund nzqnn hardcoded nzqnn ddosattacked nzqnn lowlife nzqnn pravda nzqnn abire nzqnn algos nzqnn knew nzqnn dead nzqnn scan nzqnn parading nzqnn earth nzqnn homepage nzqnn gaux nzqnn specific nzqnn tickets nzqnn bulky nzqnn thats nzqnn dripc nzqnn grocers nzqnn javascript nzqnn daad nzqnn indirizzo nzqnn slushai nzqnn constitutional nzqnn itself nzqnn didamail nzqnn rich nzqnn whithout nzqnn ccard nzqnn unprovoked nzqnn illegalz nzqnn remove nzqnn loving nzqnn dangerous nzqnn jerryjones nzqnn zozzoz nzqnn ifccfbi nzqnn bestrebt nzqnn author nzqnn technical nzqnn branches nzqnn children nzqnn released nzqnn brides nzqnn dude nzqnn waitin nzqnn minutes nzqnn huge nzqnn avolio nzqnn raindrops nzqnn sims nzqnn leads nzqnn gales nzqnn receiving nzqnn interestingly nzqnn repost nzqnn sarauvodic nzqnn three nzqnn assurtions nzqnn hinet nzqnn restoring nzqnn irritate nzqnn rethoric nzqnn providing nzqnn globalnet nzqnn joncsj nzqnn resources nzqnn invalid nzqnn rmazzeo nzqnn convincing nzqnn disclosure nzqnn somewhat nzqnn sein nzqnn baghdad nzqnn doubts nzqnn huffy nzqnn theregister nzqnn influence nzqnn motivate nzqnn animal nzqnn prosto nzqnn airca nzqnn bread nzqnn cablecomm nzqnn failed nzqnn zdgrieshop nzqnn dugave nzqnn checked nzqnn poen nzqnn monitoring nzqnn habitat nzqnn path nzqnn lengths nzqnn mala nzqnn starting nzqnn shity nzqnn mmtel nzqnn whoever nzqnn occt nzqnn harm nzqnn netetiquette nzqnn localhost nzqnn occupation nzqnn product nzqnn beautiful nzqnn hacking nzqnn consult nzqnn hahahah nzqnn gianni nzqnn agis nzqnn orgaization nzqnn awhile nzqnn whois nzqnn last nzqnn noddy nzqnn recognize nzqnn addittion nzqnn respond nzqnn compliments nzqnn orghu nzqnn yourhealth nzqnn desch nzqnn aherbert nzqnn sporting nzqnn else nzqnn activists nzqnn geees nzqnn bride nzqnn brown nzqnn phuongn nzqnn light nzqnn marlene nzqnn sale nzqnn computerwords nzqnn netherlands nzqnn walk nzqnn inbox nzqnn semingly nzqnn differences nzqnn solutions nzqnn weareinsciencefictionnow nzqnn prosecute nzqnn handle nzqnn exercise nzqnn nctu nzqnn horizontal nzqnn inanchor nzqnn withhypens nzqnn claim nzqnn claims nzqnn schen nzqnn faked nzqnn shows nzqnn newsread nzqnn details nzqnn challenge nzqnn slap nzqnn catholic nzqnn spywareless nzqnn shaun nzqnn unfolding nzqnn course nzqnn nada nzqnn instructions nzqnn msrm nzqnn thewhites nzqnn weab nzqnn located nzqnn reutershealth nzqnn break nzqnn urgent nzqnn workarounds nzqnn what nzqnn familykose nzqnn closely nzqnn reportcp nzqnn advertizement nzqnn every nzqnn makes nzqnn photographs nzqnn grows nzqnn propaganda nzqnn other nzqnn missing nzqnn showpost nzqnn global nzqnn outer nzqnn solver nzqnn finished nzqnn quick nzqnn jrezabek nzqnn back nzqnn item nzqnn entertain nzqnn pacbell nzqnn crash nzqnn transfer nzqnn ears nzqnn elessar nzqnn dollareuro nzqnn words nzqnn august nzqnn zillion nzqnn bmagrbmollett nzqnn spammers nzqnn newmoneya nzqnn license nzqnn freakhard nzqnn simple nzqnn running nzqnn telok nzqnn nugent nzqnn toppled nzqnn bogus nzqnn security nzqnn hilche nzqnn intentions nzqnn sucking nzqnn lazy nzqnn risk nzqnn listserv nzqnn usol nzqnn eyedeeahs nzqnn heikokratzke nzqnn dungeons nzqnn please nzqnn lusisti nzqnn insert nzqnn money nzqnn taire nzqnn crap nzqnn moves nzqnn wanly nzqnn distribution nzqnn aristotle nzqnn krumm nzqnn igorkolar nzqnn falsely nzqnn expect nzqnn continuing nzqnn thlonrangr nzqnn naha nzqnn openssl nzqnn smarter nzqnn connect nzqnn dmartin nzqnn english? 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Bush Courts Catholic Vote

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Bush Courts Catholic Vote The Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) – It was more than a social call: Five days after taking office, President Bush paid a visit to Washington Archbishop Theodore E. McCarrick, foreshadowing what has become a meticulous outreach to the nation’s Roman Catholics – a bloc he sees as vital if he is to have a prayer of re-election. In Miami, Bush dropped in on Archbishop John Favalora. In Pittsburgh, he saw Bishop Donald Wuerl, and in Philadelphia, Cardinal Anthony Bevilacqua. Swinging through St. Louis, he stopped to see Archbishop Justin Rigali. Bush’s first trip to New York will be to award the Congressional Gold Medal to the late Cardinal John O’Connor on Tuesday. When he goes to Italy later this month, Bush will meet with Pope John Paul II. Bush, a Methodist, is lavishing attention on Catholic leaders and their flocks. He and Democrat Al Gore essentially split the Catholic vote last year – a big gain for the Republican side after Bill Clinton captured the Catholic vote by a 16 point margin in 1996 and 9 points in 1992, according to exit polling by the Voter News Service. Advisers believe Catholics, about one-quarter of the November electorate, are particularly receptive to Bush’s initiative to bring religious groups into government-funded charity efforts. “Their core values fit with his agenda,” said White House spokesman Tucker Eskew. “The man has an abiding sense of compassion, and that value is a tenet of the active Catholic’s faith, as is defense of the family, defense of life. Those issues all ring true with this president’s character and that faith’s values.” Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said his party’s stances on the environment, education, patients’ rights and the economy will draw growing numbers of Catholics to Democratic candidates. “Sitting there doing a photo op with the local cardinal or bishop or even the Holy Father at some point isn’t going to do anything to help the Catholic voter who just lost a job and is worried about providing health care for a loved one,” McAuliffe said. Bush offended many Catholics during the presidential campaign by making a campaign stop at Bob Jones University, a South Carolina school whose leader called the Catholic Church a “Satanic cult.” Ever since, Bush has gone out of his way to court Catholics, both on the road and at home. On March 21, Bush entertained more than 120 Catholic leaders in the East Room of the White House. The next day, he surrounded himself with cardinals and reaffirmed his opposition to abortion as he presided over the ribbon-cutting at a museum named for Pope John Paul II. Today, Catholics wield special clout in the Bush White House. Aides mull issues and strategy every week with Catholics from around the country. The Republican National Committee has named Catholic teams in more than a dozen cities to bring more Catholics into the GOP and stir political activism among the faithful. “This is a group of swing voters that is very influential, especially in many battleground states,” RNC spokesman Trent Duffy said. Nevertheless, conspicuous divisions remain between Bush and Catholic leaders and followers. Pope John Paul II asked Bush to spare the life of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh in May; Bush refused. Catholic bishops in June voted unanimously to call for immediate action to mitigate the effects of global climate change, indirectly rebuking Bush over the 1997 global warming agreement known as the Kyoto Protocol, which he has rejected. Bush is now weighing whether to allow federal funds for research that uses stem cells from human embryos, which scientists say holds tremendous promise in finding dramatic new treatments for disease. The Catholic Church opposes the research, arguing that it amounts to unethical experimentation on an early life. One of the groups that have directly contacted the White House to express their opposition is the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, now part of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Bush recently met at the White House with Bishop Rev. Joseph Fiorenza, the president of the bishops’ new group, and Bishop Rev. Wilton Gregory, the vice president. Many Catholics say they are closely watching Bush for signs that he will stick to an agenda they favor. “For those of us who are the real, true believers, it’s show me, don’t tell me, and the photo ops don’t impress us,” said Florence Ward, 60, of Wellington, Fla. “He’d better not roll over on stem-cell research, or he’s done with hard-core Catholics,” she said. “I would like to see him stick to his principles, and if he’s only going to be a one-term president, go down with his head held high.”

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::: Sunspot Cycles & Activist Strategy :::

Question:

He also did one on sports. I was very into it when I started looking for names of some very good players (and a bunch of real all time stars) that just weren’t there. He chose his people to fit his hypothesis, not to test his hypothesis. So it was of some interest, but not science. Pity he didn’t chose objectively (or have someone else chose) and then adjust his hypothesis to fit the evidence, rather than the other way around.

(snips) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My only critique of this data is the danger of selection. The events mentioned are all ‘big’ history – i.e. events commonly ascribed as being of great significance. I don’t know whether you’re aware of the work of Michel Gauquelin: he found a correlation between the positions of the planets at the time of birth and the eventual professions of a large group of prominent French people. His study group, if I remember correctly, was selected from a reference work of ‘famous’ people in France. When his study was repeated with the same study group, his correlations were reproduced. When, however, a different group of competent French citizens was studied, little correlation was found. Gauquelin maintained that the correlation only holds for very accomplished sportsmen, scientists, politicians, and the like, and that was why the second group of merely competent people did not show the same level of correlation. No similar correlations were found in subsequent studies with similarly pre-eminent people of other countries. It looks as if Gauquelin’s correlation was some statistical freak of his study group. He was obviously sincere in his efforts as the reference work was a standard text – he thought that letting the book define the study group would avoid the trap of possibly biasing the sample by his own selection criteria.

—– rbc: vixen (somewhat harmless) 0-0: The artist formerly known as something else. I only answer my email every few months, on average. Patience helps. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

I’m one of those people who are very sensitive to approaching thunderstorms – I feel terrible for a couple of hours before they arrive and then feel wonderful when they have cleared away. I’ve tried to research these effects in the past but there don’t seem to be any conclusive studies.

As have I…… now I just accept that the mother-in-law…. HAS to make my lifea misery…..;) — AlecX…. the piano`s been my forte…..;)

Response:

The author of the following article and I would both appreciate it if someone would attempt to assess the science involved. If the argument made below is true, it could have important consequences. One explanation — and I believe the most credible — for these increase and decreases in human activism is the 11 year sunspot cycle. Periods of high sunspot activity seem to be correlated with greater mass human activity and excitability, including protests, riots, revolutions and wars; periods of low sunspot cycle with relative quiescence. Is there a link between sunspot activity and human tendencies to mass action and social and political change? And if there is, how can activists use this knowledge to more effectively organize change?

Hello Dan It certainly seems a beguiling hypothesis. Having uncovered a correlation, you really need to propose a credible mechanism – otherwise the correlation could simply be coincidental. Humans are also sensitive to the effects of solar eruptions. Various studies link ultra-violet radiation and changes in magnetic fields to increased metabolism levels or erratic behavior. And it is well known that an increase in negative ions makes us more energetic. Increases in admissions to mental hospitals and in traffic and industrial accidents have been linked to the occurrence of solar flares. Considering that during a period of maximum sunspot activity there may be as many as 200 solar flares in one year, as compared with as few as five during a year of minimum activity, it is not surprising that all these atmospheric disruptions might similarly disrupt human sensibilities.

And here it is! Although I’m not sure how well-established some of the relationships you mention are. I’m one of those people who are very sensitive to approaching thunderstorms – I feel terrible for a couple of hours before they arrive and then feel wonderful when they have cleared away. I’ve tried to research these effects in the past but there don’t seem to be any conclusive studies. To test his hypothesis that sunspot cycle influenced human activity, Tchijevsky constructed an Index of Mass Human Excitability covering each year form 500 BC to 1922 AD. He then investigated the histories of 72 countries during that period, noting signs of human unrest such as wars, revolutions, riots, expeditions and migrations, plus the numbers of humans involved. Tchijevsky found that fully 80% of the most significant events occurred during the 5 years of maximum sunspot activity. (Tchijevsky’s merely noting that the 1917 Russian Revolution occurred during the height of the sunspot cycle earned him almost 30 years in Soviet prisons because his theory challenged Marxist dialectics.)

You’d need to consider the criteria used to calculate the Tchijevsky Index of Mass Human Excitability – it could be that his correlation is an artefact of one or more of the parameters he selected. Tchijevsky did not believe solar disturbances caused discontent as much as they acted as detonators that set off the smoldering discontent of the masses — discontent often channeled into war by their rulers. Nor did he deny that even during minimum solar activity some people would rebel against intolerable conditions or that nations would seek advantage through war and conquest.

Yes, what’s being said here is not that the sunspots *cause* the unrest but that the extra personal stresses on individuals combine to tip precariously-balanced societies over the edge into decisive action. The Evidence Sunspot Height Years Events Just Before or During Height

My only critique of this data is the danger of selection. The events mentioned are all ‘big’ history – i.e. events commonly ascribed as being of great significance. I don’t know whether you’re aware of the work of Michel Gauquelin: he found a correlation between the positions of the planets at the time of birth and the eventual professions of a large group of prominent French people. His study group, if I remember correctly, was selected from a reference work of ‘famous’ people in France. When his study was repeated with the same study group, his correlations were reproduced. When, however, a different group of competent French citizens was studied, little correlation was found. Gauquelin maintained that the correlation only holds for very accomplished sportsmen, scientists, politicians, and the like, and that was why the second group of merely competent people did not show the same level of correlation. No similar correlations were found in subsequent studies with similarly pre-eminent people of other countries. It looks as if Gauquelin’s correlation was some statistical freak of his study group. He was obviously sincere in his efforts as the reference work was a standard text – he thought that letting the book define the study group would avoid the trap of possibly biasing the sample by his own selection criteria. The trouble with assessing the ‘big’ events in history is that these have already been pre-selected by historians as being of significance. Wars are continually occurring all around the world – the only ones we get to hear about are those deemed to be of consequence to our societies. It’s hard to define what is important history without making some sort of value judgement. I suspect that there’s a lot more ‘noise’ in the data than the table suggests. The only other possible explanation I can come up with at the moment is that it could be some cycling of the zeitgeist. When news of a revolt or riot spreads around the world other people are persuaded to follow suit. In 1981 there were a number of riots in British towns and cities that were ostensibly racially-based when they began. It was a time of rising unemployment and falling inner-city prosperity; I suspect that many of the later riots were nothing more than copycat incidents by disaffected youths who fancied going on the rampage and indulging in a spot of easy looting. (By the way, 1982 saw the Falklands War between the UK and Argentina. The riots of 1981 and the war of 1982 were hugely important in Britain, with the war being credited with the continuation of Margaret Thatcher as the British Prime Minister for the remainder of the 1980s, yet both seeming occurred during a decrease period.) It could be that the idea of public action rapidly spreads around the world and, when nothing positive is seen to emerge, a period of calm follows – a sort of world-wide Mexican Wave. It could be a purely sociological phenomenon with its own in-built period rather than an externally mediated influence. Just a thought! John

Response:

The author of the following article and I would both appreciate it if someone would attempt to assess the science involved. If the argument made below is true, it could have important consequences. SUNSPOT CYCLES AND ACTIVIST STRATEGY by Carol Moore In the mid-1980s, writing in two small radical publications, I predicted the dissolution of the Soviet Union and freedom for eastern Europe for the exact month that it did in fact happen. I did not predict it specifically for November of 1989. I predicted it for the height of the next sunspot cycle. The height occured in November of 1989. And, as this article argues, this was no coincidence. Considering that we are now are in the height of another sunspot cycle, a time of maximum human excitability, of mass demonstrations, riots, revolutions and wars, it is wise to look at the evidence that these cycles have influenced all of human history — and to learn the implications of these cycles for activist organzing. Below is my analysis, with * * * In an October 11, 1989 Washington Post editorial,

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On a general note

Question:

I have followed this newsgroup for a month or so and can’t help thinking that people are often very negative about personality disorders. I get the impression that many people posting have had bad experiences with sufferers, either as partners of them or as professionals working with them. I would like to say that I am very optimistic about the help that can be offered to people with personality disorders, through therapy and medication. I have certainly experienced this myself. Also, my perception of people who are vulnerable in this way is that they desperately need help. What seems to be difficult is that others are not sure whether or not they can help, or whether they should get too involved in the problems. I personally have noticed that people with personality problems, and who are aware of them, have a great deal to offer in the way of insight and sympathy to others, and have many other talents besides. It is often too easy to focus on the bad side of a person with problems, in order to justify one’s reaction to them. Also, I think it is a part of human life that there are some who suffer from mental/emotional disorders, just as they do physical disorders. Surely, it is the aim of this newsgroup to support the people after whom it is named. Too often, I feel that advice is given to cease a relationship with the person who is suffering, when really, I think that there is a vulnerable person out there who needs the support of sharing their problems, which can be given in part through this newsgroup. My general feeling is that a relationship with someone with problems is complex, but not without its rewards. Even if people don’t want to get too involved with someone who is damaging their lives, or manipulating them unbearably, I suggest that at least they recommend that the person suffering should seek help and start along the path of self-knowledge and healing. Sally N.

Response:

here here Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 5 May 1999 20:27:09 +0100, "Sally N." <na…@iname.com> wrote: >I have followed this newsgroup for a month or so and can’t help thinking >that people are often very negative about personality disorders. I get the >impression that many people posting have had bad experiences with sufferers, >either as partners of them or as professionals working with them. >I would like to say that I am very optimistic about the help that can be >offered to people with personality disorders, through therapy and >medication. I have certainly experienced this myself. Also, my perception >of people who are vulnerable in this way is that they desperately need help. >What seems to be difficult is that others are not sure whether or not they >can help, or whether they should get too involved in the problems. >I personally have noticed that people with personality problems, and who are >aware of them, have a great deal to offer in the way of insight and sympathy >to others, and have many other talents besides. It is often too easy to >focus on the bad side of a person with problems, in order to justify one’s >reaction to them. >Also, I think it is a part of human life that there are some who suffer from >mental/emotional disorders, just as they do physical disorders. Surely, it >is the aim of this newsgroup to support the people after whom it is named. >Too often, I feel that advice is given to cease a relationship with the >person who is suffering, when really, I think that there is a vulnerable >person out there who needs the support of sharing their problems, which can >be given in part through this newsgroup. >My general feeling is that a relationship with someone with problems is >complex, but not without its rewards. Even if people don’t want to get too >involved with someone who is damaging their lives, or manipulating them >unbearably, I suggest that at least they recommend that the person suffering >should seek help and start along the path of self-knowledge and healing. >Sally N.

Response:

Sally, it was good to read your post, as someone who has acknowledged their PD and has worked on it. Unfortunately, there are those of us (myself included) that have tried YEARS to "keep" people in their lives with PDs (mother has BPD). Mother refuses to get help and says she is healed. I don’t see it. It was a hard choice to make when I had to cut her out of my life. She was still working to destroy me even at my age (31). Some people with PDs are toxic, and aren’t interested in changing. Those are the ones that are hard to stay with. I tried, but it just kept killing me. It is good to hear that there are people with PDs that seek treatment and work through things, and I don’t take anything away from you for that, I just would remind you that those who DON’T seek treatment or change make lives miserable for those around them trying to love them. Its a hard thing to do and I applaud you for the work you’ve done. I wish my mother had done the same.

Response:

Sally wrote: >I personally have noticed that people with personality problems, and who are >aware of them, have a great deal to offer in the way of insight and sympathy >to others,

I forgot to respond to this part in particular. I have found, in my case, that my mother is extremely NOT insightful or sympathetic. Everything is about HER and what she demands. She is BPD and does not use her own suicidal history to understand others’ depression. She merely says they are having a pity party. I wouldn’t call that understanding.

Response:

Barbieenvy wrote…. >I forgot to respond to this part in particular. I have found, in my case, >that >my mother is extremely NOT insightful or sympathetic. Everything is about HER >and what she demands. She is BPD and does not use her own suicidal history to >understand others’ depression. She merely says they are having a pity party. >I >wouldn’t call that understanding.

Does anyone know anything about the fine line between a person with BPD who has the facility or the wherewithal or willpower or awareness to be able to try and change and one who cannot or will not?

Response:

>Does anyone know anything about the fine line between a person with BPD who >has the facility or the wherewithal or willpower or awareness to be able to try >and change and one who cannot or will not?

I have no idea. I used to think if they just found a relationship worth living for they would change. But that’s not been my mother’s answer. I used to think that if I gave her freedom to be herself and didn’t hurt her by setting boundaries that would be the answer. It wasn’t. I used to think if I was a better daughter then she would get better for "me" – stupid me, didn’t work. I could never be a good enough daughter. No one can. I used to think that there was no cure. I can entertain the thought that some recover, but understand the research to say its rare.

Response:

In article <19990505160731.18447.00002…@ng-fd1.aol.com>, barbiee…@aol.com (BarbieEnvy) wrote: > Sally wrote: > >I personally have noticed that people with personality problems, and who are > >aware of them, have a great deal to offer in the way of insight and sympathy > >to others, > I forgot to respond to this part in particular. I have found, in my case, that > my mother is extremely NOT insightful or sympathetic. Everything is about HER > and what she demands. She is BPD and does not use her own suicidal history to > understand others’ depression. She merely says they are having a pity party. I > wouldn’t call that understanding.

Ever read The People of the Lie? That’s a good book for that total lack of empathy! ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Response:

>Subject: Re: On a general note >From: wmulra…@aol.com (Wmulraney) >Date: 5/5/99 4:29 PM Central Daylight Time >Message-id: <19990505172928.21681.00003…@ng-fp1.aol.com> >Does anyone know anything about the fine line between a person with BPD who >has >the facility or the wherewithal or willpower or awareness to be able to try >and >change and one who cannot or will not?

Possibly it has something to do with denial. Unless you are aware and accept that you have a problem, you are not going to work on it or try to change. Also telling a person they have a problem generally will not motivate them to see that they do. Often it will make them defensive. They have to arrive at the desire to work on their problems on their own. All the people in their lives can do, is not enable them. CG

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>Subject: On a general note >From: "Sally N." <na…@iname.com> >Date: 5/5/99 2:27 PM Central Daylight Time >Message-id: <7gq63e$mm…@news.ox.ac.uk> >I have followed this newsgroup for a month or so and can’t help thinking >that people are often very negative about personality disorders. I get the >impression that many people posting have had bad experiences with sufferers, >either as partners of them or as professionals working with them.

Yes I agree with what you’re saying. There is a lot of pessimism about PD’s, and much of it seems to come from mental health professionals themselves. That PD’s are difficult to treat I’m sure is reality. Possibly many professionals are not really equipped with the right knowledge or have the desire to do so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would like to say that I am very optimistic about the help that can be >offered to people with personality disorders, through therapy and >medication. I have certainly experienced this myself. Also, my perception >of people who are vulnerable in this way is that they desperately need help. >What seems to be difficult is that others are not sure whether or not they >can help, or whether they should get too involved in the problems. >I personally have noticed that people with personality problems, and who are >aware of them, have a great deal to offer in the way of insight and sympathy >to others, and have many other talents besides. It is often too easy to >focus on the bad side of a person with problems, in order to justify one’s >reaction to them. >Also, I think it is a part of human life that there are some who suffer from >mental/emotional disorders, just as they do physical disorders. Surely, it >is the aim of this newsgroup to support the people after whom it is named. >Too often, I feel that advice is given to cease a relationship with the >person who is suffering, when really, I think that there is a vulnerable >person out there who needs the support of sharing their problems, which can >be given in part through this newsgroup.

I would never tell anyone to get out of a relationship based on the fact that the other person has a mental disorder. But often people that want out and need to get out of relationships for their own sake, ask for advice. Often if one person in a relationship is to that point, it’s really best in the long run for both to end the relationship, though hardly ever easy to do for many reasons. CG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My general feeling is that a relationship with someone with problems is >complex, but not without its rewards. Even if people don’t want to get too >involved with someone who is damaging their lives, or manipulating them >unbearably, I suggest that at least they recommend that the person suffering >should seek help and start along the path of self-knowledge and healing. >Sally N.

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CGRusher wrote >There is a lot of pessimism about PD’s, >and much of it seems to come from mental >health professionals themselves.

Much of the pessimism comes from experience with severe sufferers who lost the ability to learn new behavior (the film The Cable Guy is a hard to watch cautionary tale of BPD that ex-partners instantly recognize as their experience), while a deep understanding of BPD came too late or in retrospect. It seems more that mental health professionals benefiting from the clinical research of the last 25 years have become more and more empathetic to the unique needs of a cruelly traumatized population. Thus the new field of Traumatology. The real changes will start when teaching healthy loving childrearing ("we love you and we will support you in your healthy growth and goals") and child advocacy is a top global priority. (Not to mention setting good examples for our children today by achieving global peace and mutual diverse self esteem ourselves.) An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and there’s information about activism and advocacy at the BPDCentral site, as I’m sure many are aware. God bless and take care.

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>Subject: Re: On a general note >From: "L." <empa…@compassion.edu> >Date: 5/6/99 1:03 AM Central Daylight Time >Message-id: <usrLcX4l#GA.164@cpmsnbbsa02> >CGRusher wrote >>There is a lot of pessimism about PD’s, >>and much of it seems to come from mental >>health professionals themselves.

Empathy said: >Much of the pessimism comes from experience >with severe sufferers who lost the ability to >learn new behavior (the film The Cable Guy >is a hard to watch cautionary tale of BPD that >ex-partners instantly recognize as their >experience), while a deep understanding of BPD >came too late or in retrospect.

I haven’t seen that movie, but I do know that bpd is too varied to attribute any one character to it. I consider this stereotyping and stigmatizing. It seems more – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->that mental health professionals benefiting from >the clinical research of the last 25 years have >become more and more empathetic to the >unique needs of a cruelly traumatized population. >Thus the new field of Traumatology. >The real changes will start when teaching healthy >loving childrearing ("we love you and we will support >you in your healthy growth and goals") and child >advocacy is a top global priority. (Not to mention >setting good examples for our children today by >achieving global peace and mutual diverse self >esteem ourselves.) An ounce of prevention is >worth a pound of cure, and there’s information >about activism and advocacy at the BPDCentral site, >as I’m sure many are aware.

Yes and personally I think the owner of that site is adding to the stigma. Possibly is doing some other good stuff, but she’s not open to examining herself. CG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->God bless and take care.

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>Subject: Re: On a general note >From: barbiee…@aol.com (BarbieEnvy) >Date: 5/5/99 5:15 PM Central Daylight Time >Message-id: <19990505181550.06833.00002…@ng-cq1.aol.com> >>Does anyone know anything about the fine line between a person with BPD who >>has the facility or the wherewithal or willpower or awareness to be able to >try >>and change and one who cannot or will not?

Barbieenvy said: >I have no idea. >I used to think if they just found a relationship worth living for they would >change. But that’s not been my mother’s answer. >I used to think that if I gave her freedom to be herself and didn’t hurt her >by >setting boundaries that would be the answer. It wasn’t. >I used to think if I was a better daughter then she would get better for "me"

It sounds like you were trying to take responsibility for her behavior. That’s part of what I think can be enabling. It’s easy to do with a parent. Have been there myself. A friend of hers, (a therapist) had to sit me down and tell me I was not responsible for her, that I had a right to a life of my own. After I started taking care of myself my mother found it neccessary to deal more with her own problems too. We both still struggle with ourselves. >stupid me, didn’t work. I could never be a good enough daughter. No one can. >I used to think that there was no cure. I can entertain the thought that some >recover, but understand the research to say its rare.

What research is this? I’m not sure recovery or cure in a finite sense is really an issue. When you’ve lived for years and decades coping in certain ways, you can learn how they are not productive in the long run, and change, but often you will still have the tendency to cope in the old ways. There’s a need to be constantly ongaurd, and when you do fall back into old patterns, forgive yourself, dust yourself off and try to learn from the experience. CG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Sally N. wrote: >I suggest that at least they recommend >that the person suffering should seek help

Keep lurking and studying. When you deeply understand and have empathy for both sufferers who refuse treatment and those who tried to love them, the last phrase you will use is "at least they can . . . . " about anything. Be easy both on yourself and others; empathy, honesty, forgiveness and compassion is a two way street one day at a time. God bless and take care.

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Maquiladoras in America: Factory in Berkeley poisons labor

Question:

Management has removed all warning labels from cans of adhesive, ink, and other solvents. They are obligated, under California law, to provide warning in English and Spanish regarding the toxic nature of the substances workers are exposed to. They have not done so.

If this is true, then calling CAL-OSHA would be appropriate, also. CAL-OSHA’s number is … Occupational Safety & Health (415) 572-9424 1900 S. Norfolk, San Mateo 24 hours Workers have suffered health impairment directly due to exposure to these chemicals. Skin rashes are commonplace. Fainting spells are commonplace. Impaired respiratory function is commonplace.

Each of these individuals should file a complaint with CAL-OSHA, and Cc: the Ecology Center, or, better yet, the Ecology Center should try to act as a facilitator. Keep the Net appraised of your progress … some of us really care. -=*=- When a worker (who has asked not to be publicly identified) took the initiative to distribute info from New Jersey Fact Sheets regarding the health effects of toluene exposure (provided by the Ecology Center and RTKNET), her employment was terminated, on the grounds that she was a "temporary worker" and that there was no work for her to do. At a meeting subsequent to her termination, workers were told that most of them would be laid off due to the activism of this one worker. Call Rubberstampede at (510) 843-8910. Tell them you will not buy any of their products until they provide adequate safety training and equipment to their workers.

Seems like a reasonable request to me. — richard — ===== oracle data center – unix systems & network administration Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.

Response:

Harel Barzilai posts: Berkeley firm gets rich while poisoning workers. You can help by calling the company (510) 843-8910, and filling up their fax (510) 843-5906. I don’t know if this is harrassment, but I think it is. I have faxed a copy of this post with instructions on how they can find the original post and how to track down Harel to the firm in question. I am also sending this post to Harel directly and I urge other to do so. After all, if he thinks it is appropriate to fill up other people’s faxes how can he complain if we fill up his e-mail?

I bet $50 that H*r*l has his friend mail some email from "root" that basically says "help, I’m being oppressed!" to your sysadmin . Sir or Madam, I don’t know if your fax is getting loads of junk, but if it is the message referenced above is the reason. Just so you can interpret it, John McCarthy is responding to a post by someone named Harel Barilzai. Harel posted an article to a bulletin board read by on the order of 100,000 people urging them to "fill up" your fax. I didn’t get Harel’s original article so I can’t give it to you. John quoted it. If you want to get in touch with Harel the best place to start is with Cornell – his computer account is there. They may also be interested themselves – most universities have policies prohibiting people from using computers to harrass others.

Ooooo, you dirty imperialist running dog! BTW-if you need proof that H*r*l thinks this kind of behaviour "is a bad thing to do", I’ve got some email I can send you. Brett Proconsul Computer Consulting CHA-CHING! Better, Cheaper, Faster (Pick any two Disclaimer: NOT!

Response:

Harel Barzilai posts: Berkeley firm gets rich while poisoning workers. You can help by calling the company (510) 843-8910, and filling up their fax (510) 843-5906.

I don’t know if this is harrassment, but I think it is. I have faxed a copy of this post with instructions on how they can find the original post and how to track down Harel to the firm in question. I am also sending this post to Harel directly and I urge other to do so. After all, if he thinks it is appropriate to fill up other people’s faxes how can he complain if we fill up his e-mail? 548-2220 Yes, but what’s the ecology Center’s fax number? John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305 * He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Sir or Madam, I don’t know if your fax is getting loads of junk, but if it is the message referenced above is the reason. Just so you can interpret it, John McCarthy is responding to a post by someone named Harel Barilzai. Harel posted an article to a bulletin board read by on the order of 100,000 people urging them to "fill up" your fax. I didn’t get Harel’s original article so I can’t give it to you. John quoted it. If you want to get in touch with Harel the best place to start is with Cornell – his computer account is there. They may also be interested themselves – most universities have policies prohibiting people from using computers to harrass others. Mike Friedman — I am not an official Oracle spokesman. I speak for myself and no one else.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Harel Barzilai posts: Berkeley firm gets rich while poisoning workers. You can help by calling the company (510) 843-8910, and filling up their fax (510) 843-5906. . . . 548-2220 Yes, but what’s the ecology Center’s fax number? — John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305 * He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

– I am not an official Oracle spokesman. I speak for myself and no one else.

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[Via misc.activism.progressive from LaborNet's labor.toxics] - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Topic 93 Factory in Berkeley poisons labor ecologycntr Resources for labor re:toxics 10:13 am Sep 4, 1992 - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – M A Q U I L A D O R A S ? I N B E R K E L E Y ? Berkeley firm gets rich while poisoning workers. You can help by calling the company (510) 843-8910, and filling up their fax (510) 843-5906. Tell them you’ll buy no rubberstamps until you hear that they’ve spent some of their profits on worker safety.

Hypocrite. Brett Proconsul Computer Consulting CHA-CHING! Better, Cheaper, Faster (Pick any two Disclaimer: NOT!

Response:

Harel Barzilai posts: Berkeley firm gets rich while poisoning workers. You can help by calling the company (510) 843-8910, and filling up their fax (510) 843-5906. . . . 548-2220 Yes, but what’s the ecology Center’s fax number? — John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305 * He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

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[Via misc.activism.progressive from LaborNet's labor.toxics] - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Topic 93 Factory in Berkeley poisons labor ecologycntr Resources for labor re:toxics 10:13 am Sep 4, 1992 - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – M A Q U I L A D O R A S ? I N B E R K E L E Y ? Berkeley firm gets rich while poisoning workers. You can help by calling the company (510) 843-8910, and filling up their fax (510) 843-5906. Tell them you’ll buy no rubberstamps until you hear that they’ve spent some of their profits on worker safety. Rubberstampede, at 2542 Tenth Street, in Berkeley CA, is a rapidly- expanding rubber-stamp manufacturer in Berkeley’s industrial western area. A multi-million dollar enterprise, Rubberstampede produces novelty rubber stamps of characters such as the Simpsons and other similar popular designs. Rubberstampede has been so successful, in fact, that it plans a move to an expanded location, in Oakland. This success is due in no small measure to management’s refusal to spend any capital on worker protection. Rubber stamps are made of rubber and wood, joined by an adhesive. The adhesive that is used at Rubberstampede contains toluene, a potent carcinogen, teratogen, and nerve toxin. The workers are exposed to other solvents, contained in inks, cleaning fluid, etc. (The adhesive is the only substance the Ecology Center has been able to get a label for.) Workers at the plant are provided with no protective wear whatsoever. Ventilation is wholly inadequate to the number of employees on site, Management has removed all warning labels from cans of adhesive, ink, and other solvents. They are obligated, under California law, to provide warning in English and Spanish regarding the toxic nature of the substances workers are exposed to. They have not done so. Workers have suffered health impairment directly due to exposure to these chemicals. Skin rashes are commonplace. Fainting spells are commonplace. Impaired respiratory function is commonplace. When a worker (who has asked not to be publicly identified) took the initiative to distribute info from New Jersey Fact Sheets regarding the health effects of toluene exposure (provided by the Ecology Center and RTKNET), her employment was terminated, on the grounds that she was a "temporary worker" and that there was no work for her to do. At a meeting subsequent to her termination, workers were told that most of them would be laid off due to the activism of this one worker. Call Rubberstampede at (510) 843-8910. Tell them you will not buy any of their products until they provide adequate safety training and equipment to their workers. (510) 548-2220 For more info about PeaceNet (or EcoNet), use the GET command (see below) with the file name PEACENET BROCHURE (respectively, ECONET BROCHURE) PeaceNet and EcoNet are run by the Institute for Global Communications (IGC), a project of the nonprofit Tides Foundation. To get a file named FILE NAME from the archiver (files are two words separa- ted by a space), send the 1-line message GET FILE NAME ACTIV-L Use GET with the file ACTIV-L ARCHIVE for a listing of files available with the GET command. emailed the index of archived files.

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On Bush's love for Saddam

Question:

While I do not normally engage in net.debate

Of course not, Harel. If you engaged in debate, tons of the garbage you post to the net you would be proved inaccurate or just plain lies. Mercy, can’t have that now, can we? MD — — Dr. Michael P. Deignan (deg.pend.) / "Its okay dear, — UUCP: ..!uunet!anomaly!kd1hz / I’m a Doctor…"

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While I do not normally engage in net.debate (as is evidenced immediately by the non-zero amount of progress made as co-moderator of misc.activism.progressive), what little attention has been paid to the series so far merits a few comments: (1) I would suggest once again that we all stop talking about "we" when talking about Washington; any rational discussion or *thought* is seriously undermined as the nearly universally accepted although false thesis that "out intentions are good" severely hampers understanding of the world around us. (1.1) In particular, anyone who does not see that for Bush et al support, first and foremost, whatever policies their corporate geopolitical plans can be most advanced by, and a that human rights, democracy, development, and all those nice words, are secondary considerations — usually not considerations at all, in fact, excepting consequences relating to political fallout, and that includes American lives — is staring the answer in the face with Saddam firmly in power, with U.S. support as per "Deterring Iraqi Democracy" and per the following post (part II of "Why Bush Supports Saddam"). (2) Regarding the motive being saving our skins from Iran and Iraq which were about to overthrow the U.S. government, "not weapons profits," that the sugar-coated language (standard in the mainstream (corporate) Free Press) translates into the decision to sell mass armaments to both sides, directly contributing to the death and ongoing misery of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Iranian men, women, and children. If we sugar-coat this, and much more; state that we are pursuing the National Interest and National Security; and have the mainstream Free Press report this with a straight face and avoid asking those who spout these pleasant phrases any embarrassing questions comparing the real world and doctrinal Truth, wholesale public ingestion of the "affair" usually follows. A nation (or, Corporate-Military-Industrial-Complex) which is actually interested in "Security" in the true sense of the word would pursue a global half to arms shipments into the region in conjunction with region-wide disarmament. I can only add that a further study of the history and facts behind the rhetoric — including a slow and careful reading of the Post-War Teach-In and footnotes — would shed more light on the matter; to cite one example, Saddam Hussein’s pursuit (and for pragmatic, not Mother-Theresa-like reasons, just as in the case of other leaders) of regional disarmament, opposed and blocked by Washington — "In part for similar reasons, reduction of armaments has been a "hypothetical creature." In April 1990, Bush flatly rejected a proposal from his friend Saddam Hussein to eliminate weapons of mass destruction from the Middle East. One way to direct petrodollars to the US economy has been to encourage arms sales. Currently, Bush is proposing to sell $18 billion worth of arms to his Middle East allies, with the Export-Import Bank underwriting purchases, at below-market rates if necessary, a hidden tax to benefit major sectors of industry." And, naturally, it is difficult — for those who have not seriously studied even the basic facts and history or Central and Latin America (by far the majority of Americans) — to believe that Our Leader(s) would or could directly support, with full knowledge, massive repression, state terrorism, murder, rape, torture, and other standard features of U.S. foreign policy, "merely" because it suits elite interests. Similarly, the impression that the invasion of Kuwait was not, as Chomsky accurately notes, something which "added little" to Saddam’s sordid record of mass-murder and repression, is natural enough, given the laser-like focus, of the large corporations in the business of selling mass-audiences to client advertising companies (the Free Press), which, as far as the issue of human rights, focus their attention, only on certain individuals/nations, and only at certain times (Saddam, if he returns to Properly-Obedient Murderous Dictator mode, as opposed to Bad, Disobedient Murderous Dictator mode, may yet come back into "favor" with "us" (Washington)), as dictated by the interests of Power. Those who read the section _The Background to the War_ poster earlier will be able to discern the continuing, logical pattern, between pre-August ‘90, and post-war Washington’s policy, as far as support for dictators, resufal to deal with Iraqi (and other) democratic opposition forces, massive sales of armaments, and so forth, with the very real possibility of further, future "cycles" of this nature, another fact among many which is next to unthinkable for the Free Press to allow themselves to see, let alone report. I will be glad to supply references and/or listserver-instructions by email to anyone but rather than further newsgroup discussions will return to the programming of further series, including more information I recently received based on Rep. Henry Gonzales’ investigations, of more love-triangles between Administration officials, their investments in armaments corporations, and Saddam’s military might. Harel — Regarding "is America in Decline" I can only suggest again the recently published (May 1992) _We’re Number One_ by Andrew Shapiro ($10 paper back, Vintage Books). The 40-part _Decline of America_ series I have reposted at least once between now and November, with supplements from Shapiro’s book. And it is difficult to resist suggesting once more that the term "big government" is another phrase employed by elites in thought control, so divert attention from the most trivial of all distinctions, namely, a government intervening in the economy on behalf of multinational corporations and the military industrial complex, robbing (and S&L looting) middle-income and poor America while enriching a tiny elite, while slashing funding of education, child nutrition, drug-treatment, infrastructure, etc (the consequences we continue to reap, from L.A. to the state of the national economy), versus a government "intervening" by spending the tax-dollars of it’s citizens, instead of as outlined above, to provide education, universally accessible health, inftastructure, clean and efficient transportation, and other crazy ideas, for the citizens it is supposed to "serve."

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(1) I would suggest once again that we all stop talking about "we" when talking about Washington; any rational discussion or *thought* is seriously undermined as the nearly universally accepted although false thesis that "out intentions are good" severely hampers understanding of the world around us.

This is a very good starting ground – the use of "we" to enjoin one with one’s government is a very problematic base point. It causes every following argument under discussion, whether red herring or point of discussion, to come under the twist of cognitive dissonance – the mental/ego force that makes one try to keep their position consistant. Without the "we" concept as a starting point, one is freer to say what they truely feel or think, without having to remain by the side of the government, which is simply a short term elected body and head of state. If it turns out that the use of "we" has been assimilated by repetitious exposure to articles in newspapers, magazines, the radio and television, then it has been a subtle type of political control of the type that Orwell feared, except it was far more subtle that the methods of which he wrote. Note above that I said "IF". I don’t know the actual origins and propagation of the usage. It might have been ancient Greece. But things were different then. –Donald Teed

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While I do not normally engage in net.debate

don’t be so modest Harel! Before you got your very own newsgroup to censor you where a fairly active (though often beaten) debater. You even said that I was "Too tricky to deal with" because I did too good a job documenting Sandinista human rights abuses. (1) I would suggest once again that we all stop talking about "we" when talking about Washington;

No I don’t think I will do this. I didn’t vote for Bush or either of my Senators but it is still MY government (of the people and all that). WE are responsible for what our government does both good and bad. any rational discussion or *thought* is seriously undermined as the nearly universally accepted although false thesis that "out intentions are good" severely hampers understanding of the world around us.

This is called ‘begging the question’. That is where you assume the truth of what you are trying to prove as part of your arguement (I’ll bet you learned to do this from Chomsky). No Harel, I assert our intentions are good and intended to promote the maximum good over the long run. You may not agree, but it is a serious logical error to assume this unproven assertion as fact. (1.1) In particular, anyone who does not see that for Bush et al support, first and foremost, whatever policies their corporate geopolitical plans can be most advanced by, and a that human rights, democracy, development, and all those nice words, are secondary considerations — usually not considerations at all, in fact,

Gee Harel, the exact same thing could be said of you. You have never expressed concern about Sandinista rights abuses and indeed the only time you show ANY concern for rights is when you can blame it on the US. When the Sandinistas jailed and killed thousands without charge you where silent but when the current government enacts a sodomy law you jumped all over them. Suppose the Sandinistas had enacted an anti-sodomy law (possible since they have done lots of things far worse). Does anybody out there actually believe the MAP crowd would ever even mention it? And, naturally, it is difficult — for those who have not seriously studied even the basic facts and history or Central and Latin America

For those of you who are new to the net, people who have "seriously studied even the basic facts and history of Central and Latin America" are those people who agree with Harel. while slashing funding of education, child nutrition, drug-treatment, infrastructure, etc

This I would like to see documented. Can you show me a single year where federal spending on ANY of these was below the previous year? Social spending under Bush has been growing by leaps and bounds. Allen — | Allen W. Sherzer | "Giving power and money to government is like giving |

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"In part for similar reasons, reduction of armaments has been a "hypothetical creature." In April 1990, Bush flatly rejected a proposal from his friend Saddam Hussein to eliminate weapons of

^^^^^^ I can see that is a totally non-biased quote! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – mass destruction from the Middle East. One way to direct petrodollars to the US economy has been to encourage arms sales. Currently, Bush is proposing to sell $18 billion worth of arms to his Middle East allies, with the Export-Import Bank underwriting purchases, at below-market rates if necessary, a hidden tax to benefit major sectors of industry." And it is difficult to resist suggesting once more that the term "big government" is another phrase employed by elites in thought control, so divert attention from the most trivial of all distinctions, namely, a government intervening in the economy on behalf of multinational corporations and the military industrial complex, robbing (and S&L looting) middle-income and poor America while enriching a tiny elite, while slashing funding of education, child nutrition, drug-treatment, infrastructure, etc (the consequences we continue to reap, from L.A. to the state of the national economy), versus a government "intervening" by spending the tax-dollars of it’s citizens, instead of as outlined above, to provide education, universally accessible health, inftastructure, clean and efficient transportation, and other crazy ideas, for the citizens it is supposed to "serve."

NOT! Big government means that NO ONE gets special subsidy, the rich, the poor, or the middle-class. Big government means involving government in EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE, economic and personal! I have not met a single person who doesn’t think taxes are too high, tax code too complicated, regulations too thick, and laws too complicated and oppresive. "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" Tacitus, (600 BC?) Let’s look at how the liberal left defines "slashing" the budget. Let’s assume the current budget is $1 trillion. The Democratic Congress proposes a budget of $1.9 trillion. The conservatives stop it, trim it down to $1.6 trillion and resubmit. The budget passes, but liberals claim the budget has been "cut" (slashed) even though total spending has increased by $.6 trillion (in all areas). What "slashing" really means is that the liberals didn’t get all their special interest pork barrel programs fully funded at the levels they liked, hence the terminology "slashed." Watch for more liberal new-speak, like redefining "genocide" to mean "unemployment" and "welfare cut".

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Activism Change

Learn, read, react :: Activism

Filed under: Global Activism

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Bush Courts Catholic Vote

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::: Sunspot Cycles & Activist Strategy :::

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On a general note

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Maquiladoras in America: Factory in Berkeley poisons labor

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On Bush's love for Saddam

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