word choice (was "definition…"(cliff))

Question:

J/C and the sunshine gang, Thanks for the flattery. I hope you’ll read Nahanton’s posts for the same reason — because she writes them. Her words always seem insightful and expressive to me. I just want to add, in response to your comments, that the "q" word not only doesn’t bother me, I actually like it. While I know that some people have used it pejoratively, it is never necessarily insulting. Since s*xual minorities comprise about 10% of the population (according to all studies — years and years of studies), I think the word applies. We are unusual and unexpected to most people. Also, I don’t know about any history of metaphorical use that can’t sustain… Huh? Dissed for a bit and I don’t know what I’m talking about. Sorry. signing off in humiliation. but wait. I should at least say that the English dept. of the university where I work, and in the Comparative Literature program, the one in which I teach, both offer courses under the rubric of "Qu**r studies." and/or "Qu**r Theory. I’ve taught a course in lesbian and gay lit in which I used the term. Once, an older male student took exception. I respected that and curtailed the language. trill * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hey trill and pples Actually we are one of those people which ESue mentioned that reads every thread, every post,( probably 3-4 times a day). We truly enjoyed reading posts from everybody Finding inspiration, gaining insight But truth be know…we believe that the direction that the ng went (albeit temporally) caused us to dis…. was finding it difficult to read any posts the unfortunate timing of Nahanton’s *definition* post… and the possible connection to what has been going on… Sorry for assuming …Nahanton We were well aware of the empowering definitions of both the "b" and the "q" words… also aware of the true meaning of these words.. Both are words of some distinction The idea of claiming words ,while seemingly taking words from our abusers and embracing them, takes the sting out of slurs….It doesn’t remove the intent nor change the attitude of those intent of the abuser… Actually the 10% figure to our knowledge is taken from studies done quite a while back.. Believe now people are more honest with themselves and the figure is quite a bit higher….But does it really matter *smile* J/C and the sunshine gang

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – J/C and the sunshine gang, Thanks for the flattery. I hope you’ll read Nahanton’s posts for the same reason — because she writes them. Her words always seem insightful and expressive to me. I just want to add, in response to your comments, that the "q" word not only doesn’t bother me, I actually like it. While I know that some people have used it pejoratively, it is never necessarily insulting. Since s*xual minorities comprise about 10% of the population (according to all studies — years and years of studies), I think the word applies. We are unusual and unexpected to most people. Also, I don’t know about any history of metaphorical use that can’t sustain… Huh? Dissed for a bit and I don’t know what I’m talking about. Sorry. signing off in humiliation. but wait. I should at least say that the English dept. of the university where I work, and in the Comparative Literature program, the one in which I teach, both offer courses under the rubric of "Qu**r studies." and/or "Qu**r Theory. I’ve taught a course in lesbian and gay lit in which I used the term. Once, an older male student took exception. I respected that and curtailed the language. trill * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

J/C and the sunshine gang, and Cliff, This afternoon I wrote a dissertation about qu**r, language and its maleability, and studies, be they absurd, accurate, academic, or even assinine, on how many people are or do something that qualifies them as s*x**l minorities. It got messed up by a server malfunction. As far as I can tell it never got posted. Forgive me if it did and I’m being redundant. I’m going to try and restate some of it, now. I agree that it doesn’t matter what the numbers are in terms of such issues as civil rights, social and economic equality, and basic human respect. If one person does it differently, then that one person still deserves everything granted to those who currently inhabit the most privileges of classes — well everything but the gross conspicuous consumption stuff. You know, being heard, being listened to, being included in decision making… the attributes of democracy. I’ve got lit on several studies that have been conducted through the latter half of the 20th C, since Kinsey did his famous one via phone calls to 1950s U.S.A. suburbia, that have all come up with the same figures that Kinsey did — about 10% at the extreme end of his scale between being absolutely gay and absolutely straight. Many of the young people who are my students are committed to the idea that EVERYONE falls into the middle of the Kinsey scale and we all make decisions about which end to gravitate to or if we should stay in the middle. I don’t know. I doubt anyone will ever know for sure. And as we seem to agree, it doesn’t much matter. What does matter, I think, is that men who identify as strictly heteros*xl have designed and maintained the institution of marriage and the nuclear family to serve them and keep them in a position of relative power. From that position they exploit and oppress the rest of us. This is not to say that every man who understands himself to be straight participates in that maintenance, but he has the choice to do so or not. Others don’t. And they have a huge network of supporting institutions to enforce their familial ideology. They’ve got banks, health care systems, auto insurance, Hollywood, the U.S. recording industry, mainstream publishing houses, bowling leagues, ballroom dance classes… Adrienne Rich wrote and essay about this in 1981 entitled "Compuslory Heterosexuality." It has been widely anthologized. I think it was first published in _Sinister Wisdom_, but I can’t remember for sure. The only thing I disagree with in that essay is the idea of a lesbian continuum. Rich argues that lesbianism is _the_ way that women resist patriarchal oppression. She claims that all relationships between women are lesbian,even sisters, even mothers and daughters. I’d like to reserve the word lesbian for a particular type of relationship, and I’ll say no more on that. Judith Butler is my favorite theorist today on such subjects. Her writing is obtuse, full of academic and rare, multisyllabic vocabulary. Often she invents words. Her sentences are long and complicated with clauses in clauses. I tell my students that she doesn’t speak English very well, although she is from the U.S.A., Baltimore, MD, I think. She teaches at Berkley now, but used to be at Johns Hopkins. Anyway, she wrote this book called _Gender Trouble_. It explores the social construction of gender and s*xlty. If you can stand the dense and arrogant language, the theories are pretty good. Now that we (members of the human race) know that gender is signified by many more indicators than the previously relied upon outward anatomy, I think we will be most honest if we refute the idea of a binary gender system. Between genes, hormones, anatomy, brain chemistry, and nurturing, I think our best bet is to look at gender as a continuum. Once we do that, how can we help but look at s*xlty on a continuum as well. I mean, isn’t the idea of being gay dependent on the gender of the person who feels attraction and the gender of the person whom the attraction is felt for, just like being straight is? None-the-less, I go for people whom I identify as being one of those genders assigned by the binary system. And I identify as one of them. But, oh my goodness, inside of me is a teenage boy! Now what does that do to all of my supposedly stable and preconceived notions of s*xl identity? Yipes! I don’t know!! Should I care? Yipes!! I don’t know!!!! ai-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-!!!!!! And does any of this have anything else to do with anything with which asd concerns itself? I don’t know that either. But I do know that writing this has kept me focused on something for a couple of hours now. One during the first time I composed my thoughts and wrote about them and another now. That’s good, isn’t it? My t keeps assigning me exercises to keep myself focused and grounded. Writing academic postulations about gender, s*xlty, and other aspects of identity, (identity being a subject that I’ve obsessed about since my dx of DID last fall) seems as good as drawing pictures of my "system," "tribe," "inner community,"… Well, I often just call them "the kids," even though I do know about one whom I think is an adult (esides me, that is). And then you, J/C and the sunshine gang, you have a "gang," right/ ;} Augh! A minute ago I almost lost this post, too, when my server disconnected. Why?? So, maybe I had more to say,as usual, but I am going to post this now. I send it with lots of self-consciousness about my own absurdity in such theoretical pursuits. The main thing I want is to be able to be who I am, Jewish, lesbian, dissociative, and otherwise disaffected, without worrying about being oppressed, repressed, or even depressed for that matter. okay, trill p.s. When and if I ever unpack, not doing so being a symptom of my dissociation (I know, another excuse. It’s almost two months since I moved.), I’ll send you citations for those studies. I don’t know what box they’re in, so I can’t get to them now. But, you’ll probably have to remind me if you want them. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hey trill Think your server problems are contagious… we got them also We agree that all people should have the basic human rights i.e. democracy But we have reservations on the binary gender equation….. siding more on the sliding scale that some of your students are promoting.. If we were to look at our situation in the binary scale then we ask *when is the operation* On the sliding scale likely only 3/4 up the scale to female…. then we can ask *how can we live a good life with an ambiguous gender* Our s**ual*ty also ambiguous…. preference for the bi-curious rather than gay or straight …so we ask *how can we live a good life with an ambiguous s**u*l*ty?* Our xT, also only seeing in the binary ,saw these as forms of sabotage!!! Thus preventing the ultimate goal * finding and having a meaningful trusting relationship* (probably true to a binary thinker) But we don’t fit…… Thus rather than trying to achieve the *ultimate goal* we think that we would better be served by a T that relates to the *sliding scale*…. and try to achieve our true *ultimate goal* …… inner peace…. Since we also have been recently Dx’d …we haven’t labelled ourselves but there is defiantly a group of us… each actually quite talented… Being also em*ti*nally dis… has it’s advantages in that … We are always happy(wish we could bottle it and send it out) Happy to be alone and happy to give (Why would anybody wanna fix that?) Btw love your ramblings (makes us giggle at ourselves) J/C and the appropriately named Sunshine gang

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – J/C and the sunshine gang, and Cliff, This afternoon I wrote a dissertation about qu**r, language and its maleability, and studies, be they absurd, accurate, academic, or even assinine, on how many people are or do something that qualifies them as s*x**l minorities. It got messed up by a server malfunction. As far as I can tell it never got posted. Forgive me if it did and I’m being redundant. I’m going to try and restate some of it, now. I agree that it doesn’t matter what the numbers are in terms of such issues as civil rights, social and economic equality, and basic human respect. If one person does it differently, then that one person still deserves everything granted to those who currently inhabit the most privileges of classes — well everything but the gross conspicuous consumption stuff. You know, being heard, being listened to, being included in decision making… the attributes of democracy. I’ve got lit on several studies that have been conducted through the latter half of the 20th C, since Kinsey did his famous one via phone calls to 1950s U.S.A. suburbia, that have all come up with the same figures that Kinsey did — about 10% at the extreme end of his scale between being absolutely gay and absolutely straight. Many of the young people who are my students are committed to the idea that EVERYONE falls into the middle of the Kinsey scale and we all make decisions about which end to gravitate to or if we should stay in the middle. I don’t know. I doubt anyone will ever know for sure. And as we seem to agree, it doesn’t much matter. What does matter, I think, is that men who identify as strictly heteros*xl have designed and maintained the institution of marriage and the nuclear family to serve them and keep them in a position of relative power. From that position they exploit and oppress the rest of us. This is not to say that every man who understands himself to be straight participates in that maintenance, but he has the choice to do so or not. Others don’t. And they have a huge network of supporting institutions to enforce their familial ideology. They’ve got banks, health care systems, auto insurance, Hollywood, the U.S. recording industry, mainstream publishing houses, bowling leagues, ballroom dance classes… Adrienne Rich wrote and essay about this in 1981 entitled "Compuslory Heterosexuality." It has been widely anthologized. I think it was first published in _Sinister Wisdom_, but I can’t remember for sure. The only thing I disagree with in that essay is the idea of a lesbian continuum. Rich argues that lesbianism is _the_ way that women resist patriarchal oppression. She claims that all relationships between women are lesbian,even sisters, even mothers and daughters. I’d like to reserve the word lesbian for a particular type of relationship, and I’ll say no more on that. Judith Butler is my favorite theorist today on such subjects. Her writing is obtuse, full of academic and rare, multisyllabic vocabulary. Often she invents words. Her sentences are long and complicated with clauses in clauses. I tell my students that she doesn’t speak English very well, although she is from the U.S.A., Baltimore, MD, I think. She teaches at Berkley now, but used to be at Johns Hopkins. Anyway, she wrote this book called _Gender Trouble_. It explores the social construction of gender and s*xlty. If you can stand the dense and arrogant language, the theories are pretty good. Now that we (members of the human race) know that gender is signified by many more indicators than the previously relied upon outward anatomy, I think we will be most honest if we refute the idea of a binary gender system. Between genes, hormones, anatomy, brain chemistry, and nurturing, I think our best bet is to look at gender as a continuum. Once we do that, how can we help but look at s*xlty on a continuum as well. I mean, isn’t the idea of being gay dependent on the gender of the person who feels attraction and the gender of the person whom the attraction is felt for, just like being straight is? None-the-less, I go for people whom I identify as being one of those genders assigned by the binary system. And I identify as one of them. But, oh my goodness, inside of me is a teenage boy! Now what does that do to all of my supposedly stable and preconceived notions of s*xl identity? Yipes! I don’t know!! Should I care? Yipes!! I don’t know!!!! ai-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-!!!!!! And does any of this have anything else to do with anything with which asd concerns itself? I don’t know that either. But I do know that writing this has kept me focused on something for a couple of hours now. One during the first time I composed my thoughts and wrote about them and another now. That’s good, isn’t it? My t keeps assigning me exercises to keep myself focused and grounded. Writing academic postulations about gender, s*xlty, and other aspects of identity, (identity being a subject that I’ve obsessed about since my dx of DID last fall) seems as good as drawing pictures of my "system," "tribe," "inner community,"… Well, I often just call them "the kids," even though I do know about one whom I think is an adult (esides me, that is). And then you, J/C and the sunshine gang, you have a "gang," right/ ;} Augh! A minute ago I almost lost this post, too, when my server disconnected. Why?? So, maybe I had more to say,as usual, but I am going to post this now. I send it with lots of self-consciousness about my own absurdity in such theoretical pursuits. The main thing I want is to be able to be who I am, Jewish, lesbian, dissociative, and otherwise disaffected, without worrying about being oppressed, repressed, or even depressed for that matter. okay, trill p.s. When and if I ever unpack, not doing so being a symptom of my dissociation (I know, another excuse. It’s almost two months since I moved.), I’ll send you citations for those studies. I don’t know what box they’re in, so I can’t get to them now. But, you’ll probably have to remind me if you want them. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Oops, Cliff and J/C and the sunshine gang, I did have something else to say. I also agree with you about the problems in making sure the c*t is clean when we sever words from those who would hurt us with them. And I completely understand about the "direction of the ng," as I think you put it. I think I had a similar concern when I first saw that heading, too. But as I said, I figured that Nahanton would have something good, interesting, even crucial to say. Anyway, I am very glad to find the atmosphere of our discussion to have shifted back to one of excellent, caring support. And I like knowing that when any of us gets triggered or has an otherwise adverse response (including me, obviously) to something that gets posted, that we care enough about each other and what we come here to do with/for each other, that we quickly pull ourselves back together. Real, solid, community of communities here. I remain deeply grateful and committed to this forum. now, I’m trying to calm down. But, I’m also trying to avoid rl. I’ve got a day full of student conferences tomorrow. I had a weekend full of flshbcks/ntmrs, switching, and other dissociative episodes. My best times were here, talking with you guys. Even the dog walks were affected by dissing. I’m feeling hugely unstable and terrified of my own self. This rambling on and on about stuff in stuff seems to be my best defense. later and soon, more or less, trill * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

hi! that was really neat! thanks trill. when i saw Adrienne Rich we screamed! we had this professor in our english class that was a total feminist and all we studied were feminist things even though it wasn’t a feminist class. she literally had half the class leave in the first couple weeks. she even made some cry. she said "if you don’t like it you can leave." anyway, wehe ad to our final essay on "shipwreck" or something by Adrienne Rich, so we did a "three little pigs" discection of it. we are good at disceting. and we got an A on it! yay! we like Virgina Woolf a lot though. this is a really good thread. [spoiler for d'ath mention] a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z my sis-not-foo’s little brother died last year bc of an embulism in his head they think from when he was g’y bashed by two guys. it is so wrong to h’rt other ppl just for being different. so unfair to make someone else d’e just bc you don’t like something about them. take care, -saubhaayana the peoples republic of haley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – J/C and the sunshine gang, and Cliff, This afternoon I wrote a dissertation about qu**r, language and its maleability, and studies, be they absurd, accurate, academic, or even assinine, on how many people are or do something that qualifies them as s*x**l minorities. It got messed up by a server malfunction. As far as I can tell it never got posted. Forgive me if it did and I’m being redundant. I’m going to try and restate some of it, now. I agree that it doesn’t matter what the numbers are in terms of such issues as civil rights, social and economic equality, and basic human respect. If one person does it differently, then that one person still deserves everything granted to those who currently inhabit the most privileges of classes — well everything but the gross conspicuous consumption stuff. You know, being heard, being listened to, being included in decision making… the attributes of democracy. I’ve got lit on several studies that have been conducted through the latter half of the 20th C, since Kinsey did his famous one via phone calls to 1950s U.S.A. suburbia, that have all come up with the same figures that Kinsey did — about 10% at the extreme end of his scale between being absolutely gay and absolutely straight. Many of the young people who are my students are committed to the idea that EVERYONE falls into the middle of the Kinsey scale and we all make decisions about which end to gravitate to or if we should stay in the middle. I don’t know. I doubt anyone will ever know for sure. And as we seem to agree, it doesn’t much matter. What does matter, I think, is that men who identify as strictly heteros*xl have designed and maintained the institution of marriage and the nuclear family to serve them and keep them in a position of relative power. From that position they exploit and oppress the rest of us. This is not to say that every man who understands himself to be straight participates in that maintenance, but he has the choice to do so or not. Others don’t. And they have a huge network of supporting institutions to enforce their familial ideology. They’ve got banks, health care systems, auto insurance, Hollywood, the U.S. recording industry, mainstream publishing houses, bowling leagues, ballroom dance classes… Adrienne Rich wrote and essay about this in 1981 entitled "Compuslory Heterosexuality." It has been widely anthologized. I think it was first published in _Sinister Wisdom_, but I can’t remember for sure. The only thing I disagree with in that essay is the idea of a lesbian continuum. Rich argues that lesbianism is _the_ way that women resist patriarchal oppression. She claims that all relationships between women are lesbian,even sisters, even mothers and daughters. I’d like to reserve the word lesbian for a particular type of relationship, and I’ll say no more on that. Judith Butler is my favorite theorist today on such subjects. Her writing is obtuse, full of academic and rare, multisyllabic vocabulary. Often she invents words. Her sentences are long and complicated with clauses in clauses. I tell my students that she doesn’t speak English very well, although she is from the U.S.A., Baltimore, MD, I think. She teaches at Berkley now, but used to be at Johns Hopkins. Anyway, she wrote this book called _Gender Trouble_. It explores the social construction of gender and s*xlty. If you can stand the dense and arrogant language, the theories are pretty good. Now that we (members of the human race) know that gender is signified by many more indicators than the previously relied upon outward anatomy, I think we will be most honest if we refute the idea of a binary gender system. Between genes, hormones, anatomy, brain chemistry, and nurturing, I think our best bet is to look at gender as a continuum. Once we do that, how can we help but look at s*xlty on a continuum as well. I mean, isn’t the idea of being gay dependent on the gender of the person who feels attraction and the gender of the person whom the attraction is felt for, just like being straight is? None-the-less, I go for people whom I identify as being one of those genders assigned by the binary system. And I identify as one of them. But, oh my goodness, inside of me is a teenage boy! Now what does that do to all of my supposedly stable and preconceived notions of s*xl identity? Yipes! I don’t know!! Should I care? Yipes!! I don’t know!!!! ai-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-!!!!!! And does any of this have anything else to do with anything with which asd concerns itself? I don’t know that either. But I do know that writing this has kept me focused on something for a couple of hours now. One during the first time I composed my thoughts and wrote about them and another now. That’s good, isn’t it? My t keeps assigning me exercises to keep myself focused and grounded. Writing academic postulations about gender, s*xlty, and other aspects of identity, (identity being a subject that I’ve obsessed about since my dx of DID last fall) seems as good as drawing pictures of my "system," "tribe," "inner community,"… Well, I often just call them "the kids," even though I do know about one whom I think is an adult (esides me, that is). And then you, J/C and the sunshine gang, you have a "gang," right/ ;} Augh! A minute ago I almost lost this post, too, when my server disconnected. Why?? So, maybe I had more to say,as usual, but I am going to post this now. I send it with lots of self-consciousness about my own absurdity in such theoretical pursuits. The main thing I want is to be able to be who I am, Jewish, lesbian, dissociative, and otherwise disaffected, without worrying about being oppressed, repressed, or even depressed for that matter. okay, trill p.s. When and if I ever unpack, not doing so being a symptom of my dissociation (I know, another excuse. It’s almost two months since I moved.), I’ll send you citations for those studies. I don’t know what box they’re in, so I can’t get to them now. But, you’ll probably have to remind me if you want them. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Yeah, we don’t fit either. And, thank goodnes, it seems that the t doesn’t either. So, that helps. Besides, "binary" is so boring that even the word bores me. tesseracting the universe, trill * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

hi J/C and the Sunshine Gang! this is saubhaayana. i don’t think we’ve talked before. hi. is it ok if i ask you something? i really want to know and i hope i’m not h’rting anyone by asking. but if you are changing your body from one s’x to the other, aren’t you still buying into the whole binary system thing? i mean everybody tries to force you into some kind of mold and i think everyone tends to see things that way too. it’s all us and them. straight and g’y or l’sbian, m’le and fem’le. you can get all twisted up. just think. diciochoconejo is a boy, but he’s in a f’male body, and he’s stuck with a bf bc of us, and he mostly has to wear girl clothes. what does that make him? and when/if he gets any more mature and wants a gf (if he wants a gf) then what does that make him? us? way too confusing. ~~~~ hi J/C and the Sunshine Gang and Cliff. take care, -saubhaayana the peoples republic of haley

Response:

hi J/C and the Sunshine Gang! this is saubhaayana. i don’t think we’ve talked before. hi.

Hi there suabhaayana No guess we haven’t talked but we have been watching the things that you have to say……. very pleased to meet you ) is it ok if i ask you something? i really want to know and i hope i’m not h’rting anyone by asking.

Please ask us anything…. We can’t get answers that we need if we don’t have the questions!!!! So yes yes yes but if you are changing your body from one s’x to the other, aren’t you still buying into the whole binary system thing?

This was our point about binary gender…. If there are only 2 genders … (Ts seem to prefer this view) *If you don’t choose one or the other then you are fighting a happy existance within society* since we deffinatly are more female ,in thought, than male… then we need to correct our anatomy But by believing in the sliding scaled gender We could find a place for ourselves without altering our anatomy This not being the "no*mal" way of looking at gender predicates an existance outside of *society* (binary thinking) We’re trying to find a T that is a little less binary(boringtrill) :o) i mean everybody tries to force you into some kind of mold and i think everyone tends to see things that way too. it’s all us and them. straight and g’y or l’sbian, m’le and fem’le. you can get all twisted up.

We proudly say that there was no mold when they made us ) just think. diciochoconejo is a boy, but he’s in a f’male body, and he’s stuck with a bf bc of us, and he mostly has to wear girl clothes. what does that make him? and when/if he gets any more mature and wants a gf (if he wants a gf) then what does that make him? us? way too confusing. ~~~~

We are told by reliable sources,that it is pretty much normal for someone living with DID to have alters of the opposite gender(usually protective issues) but it is unusual (not unknown) to have transgender issues as well as DID issues Ever notice how those young ones never mature (in the normal sense)?? Thanx for the questions …keep them coming J/C and the Sunshine Gang and Cliff.

Response:

hi J/C and the Sunshine Gang and Cliff! Please ask us anything…. We can’t get answers that we need if we don’t have the questions!!!! So yes yes yes

i have questions! This not being the "no*mal" way of looking at gender predicates an existance outside of *society* (binary thinking)

i don’t think i understand that part. sorry. We’re trying to find a T that is a little less binary(boringtrill)

) hey! if you live in sothern california there’s a place called the L.A. G’nder C’nter and they supposedly do therapy so they might know something. We proudly say that there was no mold when they made us )

i think it would be kind of nice to think i came from a jello mold. Ever notice how those young ones never mature (in the normal sense)??

i don’t know. i’m just meeting them. Thanx for the questions …keep them coming

i will. take care, -saubhaayana the peoples republic of haley J/C and the Sunshine Gang and Cliff.

Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi J/C and the Sunshine Gang and Cliff! Please ask us anything…. We can’t get answers that we need if we don’t have the questions!!!! So yes yes yes i have questions! This not being the "no*mal" way of looking at gender predicates an existance outside of *society* (binary thinking)

Society views the norm, as binary ie that is there only being 2 genders..and will reluctantly accept the fact that transexuals exist if they alter their anatomy thus choosing to stay in the binary Anybody outside of this narrow concept of gender is considered a deviant (prevert). Thus, at best, society views people of ambiguous gender as being eccentric if not a total outcasts…. i don’t think i understand that part. sorry. We’re trying to find a T that is a little less binary(boringtrill) ) hey! if you live in sothern california there’s a place called the L.A. G’nder C’nter and they supposedly do therapy so they might know something.

Oh yes… there is one is Toronto also at the Clark Institute….. been there…… ??? labeled ??? as??? transexual ???? lesbian ??? Strange cause we are homosexual …as in …we like men We proudly say that there was no mold when they made us ) i think it would be kind of nice to think i came from a jello mold.

Jello is nice :o) Ever notice how those young ones never mature (in the normal sense)?? i don’t know. i’m just meeting them.

We, too, are just figuring things out now. But seems we have long noticed that segments of ourselves were never changing.. After reading about MPD these things made sense – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanx for the questions …keep them coming i will. take care, -saubhaayana the peoples republic of haley J/C and the Sunshine Gang and Cliff. Before you buy.

Response:

Society views the norm, as binary ie that is there only being 2 genders.

There are actually three, but we don’t consider hermaphrodite as a gender, but as a deviance to be corrected. It’s a shame. Risa Love cannot be wasted. It makes no difference where it is bestowed, it always brings in big returns.

Response:

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