Activism Change

Round & Round I Go…. Where I'll Stop… I Don't Know

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] much out of a relationship.  That all was not gonna be love & passion & roses.  She said the so called "normal" relationships face hard times  I get irritated when I realize I am expecting more out of life models either. yup. it’s that stoopid p word again. hmmm, i have been trying to figure out what the p word is here & the only one that starts w/ a p is passion.  Did I ge it right.  8: )

I was seeing perfectionism [...] I think it’s really kewl that you have been able to pull yourself past it.  Astri, you actually feel you have "undone" the sabotaging?  If so, are there any specifics you can give me about the journey.  I believe if I can alleviate my cicular behavior I might coul grow in leaps & bounda. I guess it might boil down to having gotten to the point that I can believe that I might deserve it.  I wish I could tell you how I got *there*, tho. Gee, loving self.  So very very hard to do.

well, actually, I wouldn’t use those words.  maybe respect, but not love. I’m not so sure I’ve gotten there (yet?).  I still have a tendency to be rather hard on me. [...] I don’t think I am very obstinant.  Rather I am way too resistant. I’m both.  obstinate in the sense that I figured that I was clearly no longer willing to live that way, and no longer willing to consider suicide as an option out, so I was damn well gonna find another way.  resistant in the sense that I did it kicking and screaming and dragging my heels the entire time (still do ), cuz change of that magnitude is *terrifying*. and cuz it satisfies me to make it clear that the process isn’t any *fun* and it’s not *fair* that *I* have to do all this work instead of the shitholes who fucked me up. But you did it anyway astri.   What a brave & wonderful person you are.

<blush [...] to you too.  don’t give up. astri i dont think i will astri. warmth & softness, polly wog

good for you. astri

Response:

dear polly wog, you sure rang a bell for me.  gah.  ears ringing. decided to try just dealing with the symtomology once, and found it worked. i made myself clean up.  made myself eat and phone friends and make appointments and pay the bills.  one thing at a time. at first, just going shopping to bring in supplies, as for a long winter on a mountain.  as much fresh and healthy stuff as a could use, plus canned and frozen goods in case i couldn’t go out.  see, i get kinda agoraphopic, too.  i’d not buy but one pack of cigs so i would have to go out at least once a day to walk. it seemed to help…. good luck, polly wog.  been lurking these last coupla months and you’ve given so much, needed to speak back to you. yours, jan

Response:

Hi Jan Pleased to meet you. Ruth — Today, is the tomorrow, you worried about yesterday. Anonymous

| dear polly wog, | | you sure rang a bell for me.  gah.  ears ringing. | | decided to try just dealing with the symtomology once, and found it worked. | | i made myself clean up.  made myself eat and phone friends | and make appointments and pay the bills.  one thing at a time. | at first, just going shopping to bring in supplies, as for a long winter | on a mountain.  as much fresh and healthy stuff as a could use, | plus canned and frozen goods in case i couldn’t go out. see, i get | kinda agoraphopic, too.  i’d not buy but one pack of cigs so i would | have to go out at least once a day to walk. | | it seemed to help…. | | good luck, polly wog.  been lurking these last coupla months and | you’ve given so much, needed to speak back to you. | | yours, | | jan | |

Response:

hey, &…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – howdeeee, doodeeee no easy answers (of course, you knew this). Oh heavens, no easy answers.  Of course most ever upward move I have made has been a piece of cake.  Bleh, bull doodoo.  It is hard isn’t it? uh huh that kind of cycle is familiar to me.  I would get better and be doing just fine and then when I was on the verge of success, I’d grab myself back from that brink and decompensate somehow.  :P~~~~ Yes, that is a tidier & more concise way of saying it astri.  Oh yea of few words & much wisdom.  I meant that sincerely astri. thank you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I really think I’ve left that behind, or at least the cycles have flattened enough as to be no more disrupting to my life than ordinary stressors. Astri, are you saying here that you still go through the same cycles, yet they are not as intense &/or devestating?   Sort of like AA says, Intuitively knowing how to handle things which use to baffle us? well, actually, that was my hedge.  I really do feel like I’ve left it behind in a lot of ways — mostly because the life I’m living right now is well on the other side of what I would have described as successful when I was so busy rescuing myself from it.  I’ve learned enough not to expect that life is going to be unstressed, perfect, no bumps, bruises, detours, whatevers (hell, that would be downright *boring*), but I’m superstitious enough not to proclaim I’m *free*…even if I suspect I am.

hehe, gotta be safe. What you said here about "ordinary stressors"?   My past therapist told me in a counseling session w/ my lover that we were expecting too much out of a relationship.  That all was not gonna be love & passion & roses.  She said the so called "normal" relationships face hard times  I get irritated when I realize I am expecting more out of life role models either. yup. it’s that stoopid p word again.

hmmm, i have been trying to figure out what the p word is here & the only one that starts w/ a p is passion.  Did I ge it right.   8: ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I certainly think I snuck past that brink, although I know that I’m not really quite where I want to be (but then, my standards keep moving forward with me).  I *think* that has happened because I finally did enough work in therapy to undo the internal sabotaging urges (for me, that entailed a number of integrations as a result of the process of accepting pieces of history as having happened, and undoing the negative messages attached to those pieces of history — having more of experience being a *shared* experience). I think it’s really kewl that you have been able to pull yourself past it. Astri, you actually feel you have "undone" the sabotaging?  If so, are there any specifics you can give me about the journey.  I believe if I can alleviate my cicular behavior I might coul grow in leaps & bounda. I guess it might boil down to having gotten to the point that I can believe that I might deserve it.  I wish I could tell you how I got *there*, tho.

Gee, loving self.  So very very hard to do. I’m not actually sure of what got me to the point of being able to do that, except sheer obstinacy on my part in refusing to give up, and having a superb therapist who knew where I was going, even if I didn’t. I don’t think I am very obstinant.  Rather I am way too resistant. I’m both.  obstinate in the sense that I figured that I was clearly no longer willing to live that way, and no longer willing to consider suicide as an option out, so I was damn well gonna find another way.  resistant in the sense that I did it kicking and screaming and dragging my heels the entire time (still do  :P  ), cuz change of that magnitude is *terrifying*. and cuz it satisfies me to make it clear that the process isn’t any *fun* and it’s not *fair* that *I* have to do all this work instead of the shitholes who fucked me up.

But you did it anyway astri.   What a brave & wonderful person you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I kind of doubt that this will be of any help to you (and I’m not even sure it’s coherent), but I’m sending it anyway. Gee,astri.  It is helpful just knowing someone has heard me.  But I got the icing on the cake also w/ you saying things which I can relate to & look at. astri Warmth to you, polly wog to you too.  don’t give up. astri

i dont think i will astri. warmth & softness, polly wog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t

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Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.  

Okay it’s official, we are twins who were split up at birth! What you describe is pretty much the central truth of my entire life.  One of the worst things about it is the unvaried question, "But if you know that what you are doing isn’t going to help the situation, why do you do it?".  This is written in my mothers’ voice, close your eyes and pretend.   Actually, so many people have passed on varying methods of expressing that exact sentiment it has caused me to feel incredibly ashamed of my depression and as if i am doing something wrong when i cannot just  *snap out of it*.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.  

*sigh.  yeah.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again.

I’ve been accused of being a drama queen who needs the excitement of a spectacular fall as opposed to a stumble. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired.

((polly)).   I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.  

i think it is the depression that is sabotaging you, not you yourself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up

…as opposed to running around like a scattered headless chicken and giving completely up, huh?  heard somewhere "just because you’re moving doesn’t mean you’re going anywhere".  That’s a damn shame, isn’t it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now.

Yeah, well somehow i have a feeling that quitting is not something you do on a regular or extended basis….and better to have diarrhea of the word then constipation of the ideas, hm?  <—–old one. hang in there polly. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

– Either you are a feminist or you are a masochist

Response:

howdeeee,

doodeeee no easy answers (of course, you knew this). Oh heavens, no easy answers.  Of course most ever upward move I have made has been a piece of cake.  Bleh, bull doodoo.  It is hard isn’t it?

uh huh that kind of cycle is familiar to me.  I would get better and be doing just fine and then when I was on the verge of success, I’d grab myself back from that brink and decompensate somehow.  :P~~~~ Yes, that is a tidier & more concise way of saying it astri.  Oh yea of few words & much wisdom.  I meant that sincerely astri.

thank you. I really think I’ve left that behind, or at least the cycles have flattened enough as to be no more disrupting to my life than ordinary stressors. Astri, are you saying here that you still go through the same cycles, yet they are not as intense &/or devestating?   Sort of like AA says, Intuitively knowing how to handle things which use to baffle us?

well, actually, that was my hedge.  I really do feel like I’ve left it behind in a lot of ways — mostly because the life I’m living right now is well on the other side of what I would have described as successful when I was so busy rescuing myself from it.  I’ve learned enough not to expect that life is going to be unstressed, perfect, no bumps, bruises, detours, whatevers (hell, that would be downright *boring*), but I’m superstitious enough not to proclaim I’m *free*…even if I suspect I am. What you said here about "ordinary stressors"?   My past therapist told me in a counseling session w/ my lover that we were expecting too much out of a relationship.  That all was not gonna be love & passion & roses.  She said the so called "normal" relationships face hard times  I get irritated when I realize I am expecting more out of life role models either.

yup. it’s that stoopid p word again. I certainly think I snuck past that brink, although I know that I’m not really quite where I want to be (but then, my standards keep moving forward with me).  I *think* that has happened because I finally did enough work in therapy to undo the internal sabotaging urges (for me, that entailed a number of integrations as a result of the process of accepting pieces of history as having happened, and undoing the negative messages attached to those pieces of history — having more of experience being a *shared* experience). I think it’s really kewl that you have been able to pull yourself past it. Astri, you actually feel you have "undone" the sabotaging?  If so, are there any specifics you can give me about the journey.  I believe if I can alleviate my cicular behavior I might coul grow in leaps & bounda.

I guess it might boil down to having gotten to the point that I can believe that I might deserve it.  I wish I could tell you how I got *there*, tho. I’m not actually sure of what got me to the point of being able to do that, except sheer obstinacy on my part in refusing to give up, and having a superb therapist who knew where I was going, even if I didn’t. I don’t think I am very obstinant.  Rather I am way too resistant.

I’m both.  obstinate in the sense that I figured that I was clearly no longer willing to live that way, and no longer willing to consider suicide as an option out, so I was damn well gonna find another way.  resistant in the sense that I did it kicking and screaming and dragging my heels the entire time (still do  :P  ), cuz change of that magnitude is *terrifying*. and cuz it satisfies me to make it clear that the process isn’t any *fun* and it’s not *fair* that *I* have to do all this work instead of the shitholes who fucked me up. I kind of doubt that this will be of any help to you (and I’m not even sure it’s coherent), but I’m sending it anyway. Gee,astri.  It is helpful just knowing someone has heard me.  But I got the icing on the cake also w/ you saying things which I can relate to & look at. astri Warmth to you, polly wog

to you too.  don’t give up. astri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Response:

Hi, Sorta reminds me of an old saying, "easier said then done". romana – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Romana, Yes it does *sound* simplistic, but in my opinion it *only * sounds simplistic.  I agree w/ you about that being a key to my emotional well-being.  It is so very difficult.  I do my silly little affirmations & immediately after hear my head say it’s a crock of sh*t. polly wog

Response:

Romana, Yes it does *sound* simplistic, but in my opinion it *only * sounds simplistic.  I agree w/ you about that being a key to my emotional well-being.  It is so very difficult.  I do my silly little affirmations & immediately after hear my head say it’s a crock of sh*t. polly wog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi polly wog, Wow, you should have been through it. I can’t say I know what to say that will make things better.  For some reason I what comes to mind is a little on the simplisitc side.  You need to learn to love yourself.  I don’t think you do right now. Maybe somewhere down deep inside you feel you don’t deserve the good things that come to  you in life.  But you do deserve that and more. I think it would be a good idea to learn to love  yourself and maybe that will help. Like I said, it is rather simplistic. Romana Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Response:

hey, &……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Okay it’s official, we are twins who were split up at birth! What you describe is pretty much the central truth of my entire life.  One of the worst things about it is the unvaried question, "But if you know that what you are doing isn’t going to help the situation, why do you do it?".  This is written in my mothers’ voice, close your eyes and pretend.  

Hey the twin thing wasn’t "suppose" to be shouted about.   How did you find out we are twins.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Actually, so many people have passed on varying methods of expressing that exact sentiment it has caused me to feel incredibly ashamed of my depression and as if i am doing something wrong when i cannot just  *snap out of it*.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   *sigh.  yeah.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. I’ve been accused of being a drama queen who needs the excitement of a spectacular fall as opposed to a stumble. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. ((polly)).   I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   i think it is the depression that is sabotaging you, not you yourself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up …as opposed to running around like a scattered headless chicken and giving completely up, huh?  heard somewhere "just because you’re moving doesn’t mean you’re going anywhere".  That’s a damn shame, isn’t it?

Heheheh yes.  Except chickens are much skinnier than I. I haven’t thought about the movement thing before.  Thanks for the possible insight. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now. Yeah, well somehow i have a feeling that quitting is not something you do on a regular or extended basis….and better to have diarrhea of the word then constipation of the ideas, hm?  <—–old one. hang in there polly. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer — Either you are a feminist or you are a masochist

thanks for replying astri. warmth & softnes to you, polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Response:

howdeeee, no easy answers (of course, you knew this).

Oh heavens, no easy answers.  Of course most ever upward move I have made has been a piece of cake.  Bleh, bull doodoo.  It is hard isn’t it? that kind of cycle is familiar to me.  I would get better and be doing just fine and then when I was on the verge of success, I’d grab myself back from that brink and decompensate somehow.   ~~~~

Yes, that is a tidier & more concise way of saying it astri.  Oh yea of few words & much wisdom.  I meant that sincerely astri. I really think I’ve left that behind, or at least the cycles have flattened enough as to be no more disrupting to my life than ordinary stressors.

Astri, are you saying here that you still go through the same cycles, yet they are not as intense &/or devestating?   Sort of like AA says, Intuitively knowing how to handle things which use to baffle us? What you said here about "ordinary stressors"?   My past therapist told me in a counseling session w/ my lover that we were expecting too much out of a relationship.  That all was not gonna be love & passion & roses.  She said the so called "normal" relationships face hard times  I get irritated when I realize I am expecting more out of life role models either. I certainly think I snuck past that brink, although I know that I’m not really quite where I want to be (but then, my standards keep moving forward with me).  I *think* that has happened because I finally did enough work in therapy to undo the internal sabotaging urges (for me, that entailed a number of integrations as a result of the process of accepting pieces of history as having happened, and undoing the negative messages attached to those pieces of history — having more of experience being a *shared* experience).

I think it’s really kewl that you have been able to pull yourself past it. Astri, you actually feel you have "undone" the sabotaging?  If so, are there any specifics you can give me about the journey.  I believe if I can alleviate my cicular behavior I might coul grow in leaps & bounda. I’m not actually sure of what got me to the point of being able to do that, except sheer obstinacy on my part in refusing to give up, and having a superb therapist who knew where I was going, even if I didn’t.

I don’t think I am very obstinant.  Rather I am way too resistant. I kind of doubt that this will be of any help to you (and I’m not even sure it’s coherent), but I’m sending it anyway.

Gee,astri.  It is helpful just knowing someone has heard me.  But I got the icing on the cake also w/ you saying things which I can relate to & look at. astri

Warmth to you, polly wog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Response:

Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Response:

Hi polly wog, Wow, you should have been through it. I can’t say I know what to say that will make things better.  For some reason I what comes to mind is a little on the simplisitc side.  You need to learn to love yourself.  I don’t think you do right now. Maybe somewhere down deep inside you feel you don’t deserve the good things that come to  you in life.  But you do deserve that and more. I think it would be a good idea to learn to love  yourself and maybe that will help. Like I said, it is rather simplistic. Romana – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Response:

no easy answers (of course, you knew this). that kind of cycle is familiar to me.  I would get better and be doing just fine and then when I was on the verge of success, I’d grab myself back from that brink and decompensate somehow.   ~~~~ I really think I’ve left that behind, or at least the cycles have flattened enough as to be no more disrupting to my life than ordinary stressors.  I certainly think I snuck past that brink, although I know that I’m not really quite where I want to be (but then, my standards keep moving forward with me).  I *think* that has happened because I finally did enough work in therapy to undo the internal sabotaging urges (for me, that entailed a number of integrations as a result of the process of accepting pieces of history as having happened, and undoing the negative messages attached to those pieces of history — having more of experience being a *shared* experience). I’m not actually sure of what got me to the point of being able to do that, except sheer obstinacy on my part in refusing to give up, and having a superb therapist who knew where I was going, even if I didn’t. I kind of doubt that this will be of any help to you (and I’m not even sure it’s coherent), but I’m sending it anyway. astri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, The thread title is what I a looking at in a nutshell.  I seem to have a cycle of behavior I go through every couple of years & sometimes more often.  It is just cyclical, no ending, no true growth. Let’s say I start at one point & talk through my cycle.  Okay I am in therapy, working hard (supposedly).  I begin to show a little progress in looking at myself.  I stabilize myself financially.  Have an enjoyable job.  Am taking good care of myself physically.  I am not isolating from my friends.  Everything seems about to go on an upward path.  Then Boom!! Crash!!!   Well, not really boom, crash.  It is gradual & seems to sneak up on me when I have my back turned.  Maybe then I will start becoming disorganized w/ my personal things.  You know, let my room get messy, the house.  Let my car get dirty.  Leave the litter box a couple of days w/out cleaning it. Then I start to slack off the exercise & the good foods.  At first I only miss exercising a couple of days & pig out only a few times. Then…….it begins to increase.  My work becomes unorganized.  I begin to start having boundary problems.  Like get involved w/ a co-worker, or the boss, or a patient.  Something I KNOW not too do. Something that I KNOW I will hate myself for.  Which leads to something else.   Then I will find myself sabotaging the good things in my life.  Not only is my work unorganized, now it isn’t good work.  It is being turned in late or not being done at all.  My room is more than messy now.  I have stacks & stacks of paper around my room, "things I need to get to".  The mess is getting bad anough that I have to step over stuff to get around.  My car will have changed colors by now w/ all the accumilated dirt on it.  It will be difficult to drive at night because the windows are too dirty for safe visibilty. Then I follow through w/ the boundary violation.  I start sleeping on the couch because my rooom is so dirty I can’t stand to go into it.  I am leaving the litter box several days now, sometimes a week at a time.  I feel angry & irritable at everything & everyone.  I start isolating myself from others w/ the exception of the one I DO NOT need to be involved w/.   I loose my job.  I cut myself.  I burn myself.  I begin to contemplate suicide. I start making plans about suicide.  I start loosing time.  I obsess on a few choice things.  I scan not keep up w/ my money.  I bounce checks.  The mess in my room is so bad I can’t find my bills, so they go unpaid. The final stage before heading back to the beginning is total devetation.  I relapse & drink & drug again.  Or I break down & end-up on the psychiatric unit.  Or make a serious suicide attempt.  Or I get in a car & get lost for a few months or so.  Or I hitchhke to places where no one can find me.  I loose everything I have worked for emotionally, spriritually, socially & materially.  So when I have hit the bottom once again, I buckle down & become "good" again & start the cycle all over again. So hell.  I realize I am continuing the cycle.  I don’t know how to make myself  break loose from it.  I can say a million times that I am gonna break loose from it, but I don’t. It feels hopeless.  I just keep going in that damn circle.  I’m dizzy.  I’m tired. I can tell where I am right now.  I am at the jumping off place of doing okay.  I still hae my company, but my work is beginning to suffer & is often late getting to clients.  My room is really messy. The cat boxes are only getting cleaned every 3 or 4 days.  I am irritable w/ my Mom.  I hae terrible temper tantrums.  I hope I didn’t buy the new car just to sabotage myself.   If I don’t pull myself out of this cycle somehow, there is no reason to keep trying.  Sometimes I think, "well hell. Why not just go on disability & quit all this shit.  Live off the taxpayers.  I have contibuted enough to taxes."  I have lost several jobs "because of my disability".  I have a good case here.  I am quite sure I could get disability.  I have had a couple of shrinks who have suggested it. But I fear I would then just lay down & die.  Lay down & give completely up My counselor has asked me this question which I can’t seem to figure out how to answer it.  She asked me what I was willing to do?  I don’t know.  I am not sure what she wants from me.  What she is trying to make me see or say.  I have no idea what it would take much less what I am willing to do. Hell, I feel like doodoo physically, also.  I went to the doc this morning cause I was havig a hard time swallowing.  Jesus, they did a strep culture on me.  It was horrible.  Not painful or anything just terrifying.  I started gagging & it was all I could do to not pull his hands away.  I felt panicked.  Flashes of something came into my head. I don’t wnat to deal w/ those flashes right now.  I don’t want to know.  N+Anyway, it isn’t strep.  Just a throat so swollen I an’t swallow solid food right now.  My body is all achy.  And I got , you know, that stuff, you KNOW.  Don’t make me say it.  It’s embarrassing. Okay… there is nothing to be afraid of.  I can say it.  OKay here leap behind the sofa to hide in embarrassment.* Okay I quit for now. polly wog Wise Odysseus on eating – Nothing is more brutal than an angry belly. Homer

Response:

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