rec.crafts.textiles.needlecraf t

Question:

<snip: pointless diatribe my idea is a good one. I have noticed that *no-one* else, including you or Christina, has posted how *they* would like to see rctn operate. Its

***BULLSHIT!*** Yes, I’m shouting on purpose. Or did you miss the post where I said "If you don’t like it, start your own threads"? I even said I agreed with your clarification post. Well, now you’re back to being a jerk again. Too bad. much business from rctn. I am desperately trying to prevent myself from doing what I strongly object to; having nasty postings on rctn. But if necessary, I can be nasty as well.

Yeah, right. We can all see how hard you’re trying to be a gentleman, Jim. You still haven’t changed your sig, either. AustinAnne — Machine shared by Anne Gwin (agwin*AT*mail.utexas.edu) and Nyarlathotep (nyarlathotep*AT*mail.utexas.edu). Sometimes we forget to change the name on the post. "The little engine that could, did."–Rob Manning, Mars Pathfinder flight director, 7/4/97. <Discussing an image of a black rectangle silhouetted against the Martian landscape "That is the top of the calibration target, that is _not_ in fact a monolith."–NASA TV commentator, 7/5/97

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok–Trei gloves off. The reason that I picked up the discussion/tiff/ argument whatever you want to call it, is that you did just that to other stitchers. Upset them very badly. You seem to think you can say what ever you want, pick fights with whom ever you want and walk around with your nose up in the air like your God. expense. All conserned knew that I wasn’t the least bit upset. It was a joke and I had TONS of fun making you look like a backpeddling jerk. So knock your self out……post a response to every post I make……rest assured I won’t respond until you hurt someone else again who’s new to the group. That’s only reason I would waste my time responding to someone who can’t remember what she posted, and doesn’t have the common sence to back and reread her post to see if she did or didn’t say something. so knock you self out. — Dorsey Last night I put up an initial response to this post. This morning I find I simply cannot put into words how furious, Dorsey, I am with your posting. Over the past days I have been trying to put forward the rather simple idea, which I am convinced most rctners support; that here on rctn we should have lots of postings on lots of topics, most of which should be about needlecraft; differences of opinion, arguments even. But *NO* nasty, personally invictive posts, as the norm.

Jim are you really reading what you have written in prior postings?? This statement above is a contradiction of what you said to Christina in a post some many days ago. And YES I took exception to the ladies <? question mark included in your original post. You were in effect calling into question whether some were ladies or not. So you were being insulting. Then you went onto insult Christina, and Dorsey. Then you back peddled and said you would not resort to tactics of the <enemy you drew the line first Jim. Then you said you were not above using the same tactics. Which is it???? Why this is such a difficult thing to do I am not sure. I have been reviled and insulted for my efforts, but that does not worry me in the least.

If it did not worry you why even mention it?!? But you comment here on it? If it doesn’t bother you why say it?? However, your posting is in a different class. Why people like yourself oppose this idea, I have no concept.

Is this a veiled insult Jim?? Rctn is rambunctious, fun, unpredictable, and I love it; a moderated rctn would be *terrible*.

Oh and in your other post you wanted to split the group. I would say your doing a fine job of it with this statement. One day you want a split the next you don’t hmmm could be you say what ever suits your fancy at the moment. However, when someone like Teri has the audacity to merely support me in this idea, you choose to attack her personally.

Jim, Teri and Dorsey were going round and round before you decided to become involved in the <slug fest eww…Sorry Liz The motive for this must surely be that you want to hurt her so much, that she and others like her will simply not support my idea.

So you think she is hurting Teri to get at you, no Jim this is not ALL about you. Do you think everything is about you?? Unfortunately I cannot stop you from making these sort of vindictive postings; I wish I could. Somehow we will work out a scheme for isolating and ignoring nasty posts like yours.

Scheming eh?? look up above for what Jim says about how terrible it would be to have a moderated group, then look below for his master plan on how to make things the way he wants them. Perhaps you should read what your writing Jim. It was rather ironic that only just before I had had the pleasure of responding to a post from Teresa Wentzler. Finding a gem like that post makes going through a month of rctn mail, well worth while. It is the sort of thing that makes rctn worth fighting for.

What does the above have to do with the current issue at hand. The fact and yes I’m gonna come out and say it. Your a hypocrite, face the facts. And then to come you your post; it was really quite sickening. As I say, I cannot stop you from posting. I can only warn you that while I have no objection to your telling *me* what you think of my ideas, I have extremely strong objections to your going after any of my friends whose only crime is that they have dared to state publicly that they think my idea is a good one.

Coming from the God Father of RCTN. God this only gets better doesn’t Jim. You really are the one with a control problem. I have noticed that *no-one* else, including you or Christina, has posted how *they* would like to see rctn operate. Its easy to tear down someone else’s ideas; however, I think it is a little cowardly if you do this, not to, at the same time, post *your* idea of how you think we should operate.

Why should they? RCTN is a UNMEDIATED newsgroup. If you want control start a NG of your own. Why does it have to operate according to what you want? What is it exactly that you dislike. The slugfest thread? the names thread? What??? tell us??You haven’t exactly came out and said except to say you think its Christine’s fault. Or perhaps it’s mine now that I have said something to you?? I think I note from your sig lines, Dorsey, that you are in some sort of business of selling crafting supplies. I only hope you dont get too much business from rctn. I am desperately trying to prevent myself from doing what I strongly object to; having nasty postings on rctn. But if necessary, I can be nasty as well.

Yes and you have proven how nasty you really are and just how much you really care about this NG. By word of mouth with this last comment. Your a real peach Jim and a gentleman too. I can see that I really really can. A gentleman<? by any other name.Love ya sweetie. <cough Vicki C. — Jim Cripwell. There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, To talk about the rest of us. Anonymous

This sig line really proves my point! You are a major contributor to it what you say you dislike at the moment. Face it like a gentleman<?

Response:

It’s probably too late now, but Turkey Rug Stitch is good for sheep. Robert And to that end — I am 6 stitches away from finishing a needlepoint project I converted from a cross stitch chart. I wanted to do the sheep in white wooly french knots but after trying it out, white wooly continental stitch had to do. I think the sheep were too small, the knots were overwhelming. The 6 stitches left are cotton floss overstitches so that the whale will have a neat spouty spout of water coming out that won’t get lost in the background. -Kristin

Robert Tusler http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~rtusler/

Response:

I wanted to do the sheep in white wooly french knots but after trying it out, white wooly continental stitch

had to do. the whale will have aneat spouty spout of water coming out that won’t get lost in the background. Sheep and a whale? Is it a Noah’s ark? I’m trying to picture something else that would have both these creatures in it. Please describe your project. Karen E. Rochester, NY

It does sound funny, doesn’t it? It is actually a design by Mosey ‘n’ Me for cross stitch called "Country Meadow." Y’know how farmer’s fields have a pattern to them because of mowing/tilling? This pattern has *patterns* on the hillsides, one is plaid and the other polka dot, with sheep on them. In the background are choppy waves with a whale and muted colored mountains and a sun. Well, I think "sheep -wool. hey, I can’t do this thing in cotton floss." So I got needlepoint canvas and matched the floss colors to wool and did nearly the entire thing in continental stitch (which is, by the way, half the work of cross stitch, so it worked up fast). In order to have little parts like the sheep’s legs, the eye on the whale and thewhale’s spout not get lost in the rest of the stitches, I decided to overstitch (if that is a word) with cotton floss on top of the needlepoint. It worked out well. The sheep I saved for last, sure that they would look great with french knots. I tried, but they didn’t. The sheep were about 8 x 4 stitches, so I think if they were bigger, the knots *would* have looked great. They are just fine in continental. The final appearance is more muted than if it were done in floss but I am very happy with it. Now I have to get it framed and enjoy it a bit before sending it off to it’s new home with my best friend. And of course, I get to start a new project. -Kristin

Response:

On October 8, Jim Cripwell writes: I think I note from your sig lines, Dorsey, that you are in some sort of business of selling crafting supplies. I only hope you dont get too much business from rctn. I am desperately trying to prevent myself from doing what I strongly object to; having nasty postings on rctn. But if necessary, I can be nasty as well.

IMHO, Mr Cripwell, you were putting up nasty, impolite posts long before this one, disguised thinly as being polite. I suggest that you think before you post which it doesn’t seem that you do much of–think that is. You fill your posts with words but anyone with a dictionary can do that. This isn’t to say that I agree totally with what Dorsey has said because I don’t. However 99% of what you have said is bull**** and as I have been faithfully reading as a lurker for a long while now, I have found that the biggest problem came about when you decided that you wanted to run how this group says or doesn’t say what it has to say. To me that is censorship. And I agree with some of the others. If you don’t like the way things are going here start your own newsgroup with a set of bylaws that says the only ones who have a right to post there are the ones who mimic what you believe and no others. Kay

Response:

And here’s my (unoriginal) solution, which you’ve used in the past: start more on-topic threads. We bicker because we’ve nothing else to do. (Besides stitch, I mean.) AustinAnne

And here is my solution: I read posts offline (use Free Agent) and write all my responses, then go back online to post them. I’ve started waiting at least an hour, often all day, to go back and post them. It’s the old equivalent of "take a deep breath" when you’re talking to someone in person. Very often, I delete an answer or edit it before sending. If you’re unable to read offline, perhaps there is some way you can save posts you’d like to respond to, and still do that later. Or write the posts, but don’t hit that immediate send button. I highly recommend Free Agent. It is, as it says, free, and very easy to use. I think the address is http://www.forteinc.com Karen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip: pointless diatribe my idea is a good one. I have noticed that *no-one* else, including you or Christina, has posted how *they* would like to see rctn operate. Its ***BULLSHIT!*** Yes, I’m shouting on purpose. Or did you miss the post where I said "If you don’t like it, start your own threads"? I even said I agreed with your clarification post. Well, now you’re back to being a jerk again. Too bad. much business from rctn. I am desperately trying to prevent myself from doing what I strongly object to; having nasty postings on rctn. But if necessary, I can be nasty as well. Yeah, right. We can all see how hard you’re trying to be a gentleman, Jim. You still haven’t changed your sig, either. AustinAnne — Machine shared by Anne Gwin (agwin*AT*mail.utexas.edu) and Nyarlathotep (nyarlathotep*AT*mail.utexas.edu). Sometimes we forget to change the name on the post. "The little engine that could, did."–Rob Manning, Mars Pathfinder flight director, 7/4/97. <Discussing an image of a black rectangle silhouetted against the Martian landscape "That is the top of the calibration target, that is _not_ in fact a monolith."–NASA TV commentator, 7/5/97

I’ve done my best to keep out of this "discussion", but after days, weeks and months of people on this newsgroup patting themselves on the back for being "the nicest, most helpful" newsgroup in Usenet with one hand and bashing the nearest available person with the other, I can keep silent no longer. Mind you, I have no intention of trying to tell a group of adults, who should know better anyway, how to act. But, let’s get one thing straight here and now. *Not* all the rest of Usenet are a bunch of bickering, crude, contentious, backbiting, infantile combatants. As a matter of fact, my husband and I subscribe to both rec.boats.building and rec.boats.cruising and on neither group have we witnessed the childish behavior it has been my misfortune to witness here. When there is a strong difference of opinion on either of those groups, the discussion moves to email, *where it belongs*! There is no public bashing, there are no personal attacks in those groups. So, you all may disabuse yourselves of the notion that you are the "nicest, most helpful" group in Usenet right now. You’re not! And, except for one or two very dear people I have "met" through this group, all this nastiness is just no longer worth my participation. I’ll restrict myself to the sailing-related groups from now on. Regretfully, Beth Waller Pascagoula, MS — Old sailors never die, they just get a little dinghy!

Response:

Jim writes: Last night I put up an initial response to this post. This morning I find I simply cannot put into words how furious, Dorsey, I am with your posting.

Well Jim if you couldn’t tell I was just a little upset with Teri’s post. I could be wrong……but the only one that I went head to head with in the last tiff was Teri. And for her to inferr that I went head to head with anyone else and made them go crying to bed……was an out and out lie. The truth hurts……but hey it’s the truth. If she wants to be nasty……so be it we’ll keep having tiffs. Jim continues: Over the past days I have been trying to put forward the rather simple idea, which I am convinced most rctners support; that here on rctn we should have lots of postings on lots of topics, most of which should be about needlecraft; differences of opinion, arguments even. But *NO* nasty, personally invictive posts, as the norm. Why this is such a difficult thing to do I am not sure. I have been reviled and insulted for my efforts, but that does not worry me in the least. However, your posting is in a different class. Why people like yourself oppose this idea, I have no concept.

Jim…….I don’t oppose this idea in the least. I do however think that what’s soup for the goose is soup for the gander. You know if you treat people nasty, your gonna get burned. And once you do don’t– come crying saying you don’t understand, oh poor me I really didn’t mean it ect,ect,ect. If you hurt some one eventually someone is going to hurt you—-you know what goes around comes around. Well Teri got bit, and burned and than played pitty poor me and than to top it all off tried to imply an out and out lie. I will tolerate just about anything and hold my temper but that. But you know what I said in the post was true……you wrote me an e-mail and I told you what was going on. What…..didn’t you believe me? So what’s the problem? Jim continues: Rctn is rambunctious, fun, unpredictable, and I love it; a moderated rctn would be *terrible*. However, when someone like Teri has the audacity to merely support me in this idea, you choose to attack her personally. The motive for this must surely be that you want to hurt her so much, that she and others like her will simply not support my idea.

purposely only addressed my comments to her in our last tiff. I only addressed her responses in a stern manner and yes…..strung her along. But I did this because her had posted in public, and thu private e-mail to others (very nasty private e-mail) that had hurt them to the point of — yes tears. So yes, she was setup, and strung along—but only as long as was the absoulately necessary to show these people what she was really like. But Jim you already Knew this……so it should be of no surprise that I would respond to an out and out lie in the manner that I did. And Jim continues: Unfortunately I cannot stop you from making these sort of vindictive postings; I wish I could. Somehow we will work out a scheme for isolating and ignoring nasty posts like yours.

You know Jim you always seem to only focus on the negtives. Too bad you miss the post of mine that I answer questions, offer help or whatever. Most of my posts are just that, but you seem to have forgotten that small fact. And still Jim continues: It was rather ironic that only just before I had had the pleasure of responding to a post from Teresa Wentzler. Finding a gem like that post makes going through a month of rctn mail, well worth while. It is the sort of thing that makes rctn worth fighting for. And then to come you your post; it was really quite sickening.

Jim…….I can’t believe you said this. If you remember correctly the first contact I had with you was when you were posting under the Topic: Why I hate TW Patterns. That’s the first time that you brought forth your x,y axis numbering and beta editting theory. One of which as you know I agree with the other I don’t. You and I had several e-mail back and forth you opinion changed about TW’s patterns only because she now posts to the group or have you truly come to enjoy the ART in her patterns? Jim says more: As I say, I cannot stop you from posting. I can only warn you that while I have no objection to your telling *me* what you think of my ideas, I have extremely strong objections to your going after any of my friends whose only crime is that they have dared to state publicly that they think my idea is a good one.

she posted an inferred out and out lie. Jim continues: I have noticed that *no-one* else, including you or Christina, has posted how *they* would like to see rctn operate. Its easy to tear down someone else’s ideas; however, I think it is a little cowardly if you do this, not to, at the same time, post *your* idea of how you think we should operate.

things happends. A. If someone is hurt as Jodi was we ALL put aside our differences and pull together to support that person. We know what is right and call wrong on the carpet. or thread and all is soon back to normal. said this befor and I’ll say it again. Jim continues: I think I note from your sig lines, Dorsey, that you are in some sort of business of selling crafting supplies. I only hope you dont get too much business from rctn.

Jim you know exectly what my business is—remember I wrote and asked you to beta edit my patterns? We had distance and time restraint problems that didn’t allow for it to come about. But you do know just what exectly my business is. So please do us both a favor and don’t play dumb on this one. OK? And Jim concludes: I am desperately trying to prevent myself from doing what I strongly object to; having nasty postings on rctn. But if necessary, I can be nasty as well. — Jim Cripwell. There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, To talk about the rest of us. Anonymous

Jim–if you wish to be nasty go right a head. Do it stright out for a change. It will be, to me at least–a refreshing change from you normal back door nastiness. — Dorsey Please visit the Rainbow Connection http://home1.gte.net/victorei You’ll find Cross Stitch and Hardanger And Kevin Scott’s fanstic new Handi-Clip Scroll frame

Response:

Dorsey, it’s not fair for you imply the entire group of people posting to the copyright and web page thread were all doing it in a negative way. Yes, I posted to the thread but my posts were a FYI type of posting–and some general comments on various things such as designer’s copyright, contracts and photographers. They were distinctively different in tone and subject matter from your posts. As for the ladies comment from Jim Cripwell, I was not insulted by it and Jim owes me no apology for his statement. — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now on to the ladies(?) thing. Yes there were three of us mainly involved in the last tiff. But, there were others……you don’t think I’m a lady……fine. I don’t think your a gentleman, nor do I think your polite with your off handed nicey, nicey snide shots. No big deal……but I’m afraid that you’ll find that there were more than three of us that posted on that thread. Please check Deja’s news yourself and see if there were no less than 10 different people who posted something durning that tiff. So yes, you offended other people. And yes you owe them an apology. Why should this be pointed out in private e-mail? Didn’t you insult them in public? The answer to this is yes and thus should be pointed out publicly.

Response:

< I have used the title deliberately; I can then keep an easy check up on any postings on this thread. Over the past few days I have been publicly ridiculed and insulted. If I have succeeded in doing any good, it will have been well worth it. For those people who did this to me, you may be assured it had absolutely no effect on me. But I must reply to some of the accusations levelled at me. I have been accused of using the term "ladies(?)" to insult all members of rctn. Go back to dejanews, and you will find I was specifically referring to those females (and they were *all* female) who resort to rude, nasty and insulting postings on rctn; those who publically try and humiliate individuals. If I have inadvertently used the term in a more general way, I would ask anyone to quote me my words by email. I will then guarantee to make a complete, abject, and public apology. In the meanwhile, also check on dejanews, and you will find the people who accused me of insulting all female rctners, were precisely the people I was referring to; those who make nasty postings. I have also been accused of attempting to dictate how rctners should act when they post. "Go to mainland China". "Captain Cripwell of the starship RCTN". Again go to dejanews. You will find over and over again that I have always maintained rctn will be what rctners want it to be. It is rather sad that people think me stupid enough to believe I could believe that in any way I could dictate what happens on rctn. All any of us can do, is express our views, in the hopes we can persuade others. If rctners want this to be a nice kind helpful newsgroup, then it will be nice kind helpful newsgroup. If rctners want this to be a place where nasty, rude, and insulting postings are the norm, then nasty, rude, and insulting postings will be the norm. Unfortunately, I am of the belief that we are literally faced with these two opposing views of rctn being mutually exclusive. Rctn will be one or the other; it cannot be both at the same time. If the pendulum ever starts swinging away from the "old" rctn, it will IMHO be impossible to stop. What I see has happened that we "old-timers" learned about Usenet almost exclusively from rctn. We tried other ngs, but always came back to rctn as a refuge from the wilds of Usenet. However, there is a new generation of rcnters coming. Many of these people have seen a lot of other parts of Usenet, and know of its ethics. If they join rctn and see that we tolerate rude, nasty and insulting postings, then they may well assume that such postings are quite acceptable. The more rude postings there are, the more those of us who like the "old" rctn will leave, and in the end all that will be left is rude and insulting postings. People may think this is a gross exaggeration; it may be. But on the other hand it may not be. My instinct tells me that it is by no means an exaggeration. Hence my postings. If I am wrong, then there is nothing to fear. However, what if I am right? Another thing I have been accused of is not ignoring postings that I do not like. I *always* ignore postings that I do not like. However, I will *not* ignore postings that I believe, rightly or wrongly, are a danger to the future of rctn. If people want to criticise me for not ignoring postings that IMHO could lead rctn to being just another ng on Usenet where insults are the norm, please do so. But at least accuse me of what I am doing, and not what you think I might be doing. If we, as rctners, want rctn to remain nice, kind and helpful, then is is essential to ignore any rude nasty or insulting posting. If you feel you *must* have the last word, then please take it to email. If rude and insulting postings go on being long threads, as has happened in the past, then I believe the "old" rctn is in grave danger. I think I have also been accused of having ideas that are out of date, and not being "with" the current generation. IMHO politeness will never go out of style. When I invite freinds into my house for, amongst other things, conversation, I do not expect them to insult me to my face. If they do, then they will never get another invitation. However, we always have a lively conversation, argue about topics, have a few laughs, etc. This is my vision of rctn. I can control who comes into my house. However, no-one has any control over who posts on rctn. If we dont like the environment, all we can do is leave. There probably are people who hold a different view of how they would like to see rctn operating. If there are other views, clearly you do not require my, or any one else’s permission to state them. However, I would merely request you do so under a different title. I sincerely hope that this will be the *only* posting with this heading. Please dont waste bandwidth with any "me too" postings. However, with this posting Captain Cripwell of the Starship RCTN is throwing down the gauntlet. If anyone wants to be rude to me, insult me, ridicule me etc. on the contents of this post, which will clearly be on record in dejanews, then please pick up the gauntlet. Only this time I would request that *all* those who support me, should then do so, in public. — Jim Cripwell. There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, To talk about the rest of us. Anonymous

Response:

Last night I put up an initial response to this post. This morning I find I simply cannot put into words how furious, Dorsey, I am with your posting. Over the past days I have been trying to put forward the rather simple idea, which I am convinced most rctners support; that here on rctn we should have lots of postings on lots of topics, most of which should be about needlecraft; differences of opinion, arguments even. But *NO* nasty, personally invictive posts, as the norm. Why this is such a difficult thing to do I am not sure. I have been reviled and insulted for my efforts, but that does not worry me in the least. However, your posting is in a different class. Why people like yourself oppose this idea, I have no concept. Rctn is rambunctious, fun, unpredictable, and I love it; a moderated rctn would be *terrible*. However, when someone like Teri has the audacity to merely support me in this idea, you choose to attack her personally. The motive for this must surely be that you want to hurt her so much, that she and others like her will simply not support my idea. Unfortunately I cannot stop you from making these sort of vindictive postings; I wish I could. Somehow we will work out a scheme for isolating and ignoring nasty posts like yours. It was rather ironic that only just before I had had the pleasure of responding to a post from Teresa Wentzler. Finding a gem like that post makes going through a month of rctn mail, well worth while. It is the sort of thing that makes rctn worth fighting for. And then to come you your post; it was really quite sickening. As I say, I cannot stop you from posting. I can only warn you that while I have no objection to your telling *me* what you think of my ideas, I have extremely strong objections to your going after any of my friends whose only crime is that they have dared to state publicly that they think my idea is a good one. I have noticed that *no-one* else, including you or Christina, has posted how *they* would like to see rctn operate. Its easy to tear down someone else’s ideas; however, I think it is a little cowardly if you do this, not to, at the same time, post *your* idea of how you think we should operate. I think I note from your sig lines, Dorsey, that you are in some sort of business of selling crafting supplies. I only hope you dont get too much business from rctn. I am desperately trying to prevent myself from doing what I strongly object to; having nasty postings on rctn. But if necessary, I can be nasty as well. — Jim Cripwell. There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, To talk about the rest of us. Anonymous

Response:

Hey Jim: Teri the one who attacked in the first place. I know she’s a friend of yours…….but hey she attacked some of my friends. So go for it. Once again it’s ok for your group of people to be nasty and un-lady like and un-gentlemenly while the others are hurt. But let someone make a fool out of one of your group—Oh my gosh—-it’s a sin. And no Jim she wasn’t mearly posting that she agreed with you. She said that if I felt that it was ok for people to go off crying ect., ect.. She post the exact opposite of what ever I post and does so on a continual basis. Check it out Jim—–99% of the time I ignore her post. It’s only when she hurts others that I jump on her case. But I guess that makes me a bad person—-in your little world. — Dorsey Please visit the Rainbow Connection http://home1.gte.net/victorei You’ll find Cross Stitch and Hardanger And Kevin Scott’s fanstic new Handi-Clip Scroll frame – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok–Trei gloves off. The reason that I picked up the discussion/tiff/ argument whatever you want to call it, is that you did just that to other stitchers. Upset them very badly. You seem to think you can say what ever you want, pick fights with whom ever you want and walk around with your nose up in the air like your God. Dorsey, I knew when I put lady(?) you were one of the people I was referring to. LAY OFF TERI. If you want to be mean and nasty to someone, take me on. But leave Teri alone. Teri was merely posting that she felt I was right. So dont have a go at her, have a go at me. I double dare you. However, I would prefer you do it by email. I only post this publicly so Teri and the other *real* ladies (and gentlemen on RCTN) know what is going on. — Jim Cripwell. There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, To talk about the rest of us. Anonymous

Response:

Ok–Trei gloves off. The reason that I picked up the discussion/tiff/ argument whatever you want to call it, is that you did just that to other stitchers. Upset them very badly. You seem to think you can say what ever you want, pick fights with whom ever you want and walk around with your nose up in the air like your God.

Dorsey, I knew when I put lady(?) you were one of the people I was referring to. LAY OFF TERI. If you want to be mean and nasty to someone, take me on. But leave Teri alone. Teri was merely posting that she felt I was right. So dont have a go at her, have a go at me. I double dare you. However, I would prefer you do it by email. I only post this publicly so Teri and the other *real* ladies (and gentlemen on RCTN) know what is going on. — Jim Cripwell. There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, To talk about the rest of us. Anonymous

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I wanted to do the sheep in white wooly french knots but after trying it out, white wooly continental stitch had to do. I think the sheep were too small, the knots were overwhelming. The 6 stitches left are cotton floss overstitches so that the whale will have a neat spouty spout of water coming out that won’t get lost in the background. -Kristin

Sheep and a whale? Is it a Noah’s ark? I’m trying to picture something else that would have both these creatures in it. Please describe your project. Karen E. Rochester, NY — "We did _not_ survive a NUCULAR war! It was a NUCLEAR war! A NUCLEAR war!"

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I didn’t participate in the latest copyright thread, but I certainly read it. Jim didn’t offend me either – no apology needed here, Jim! Sally in WV – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for the ladies comment from Jim Cripwell, I was not insulted by it and Jim owes me no apology for his statement. —

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i further suggest you either start a mailing list [listserv], or a moderated newsgroup. our dear friend Piglet can probably help you with the latter on Usenet II, you can contact her at

Usenet II? Go on… AustinAnne — Machine shared by Anne Gwin (agwin*AT*mail.utexas.edu) and Nyarlathotep (nyarlathotep*AT*mail.utexas.edu). Sometimes we forget to change the name on the post. "The little engine that could, did."–Rob Manning, Mars Pathfinder flight director, 7/4/97. <Discussing an image of a black rectangle silhouetted against the Martian landscape "That is the top of the calibration target, that is _not_ in fact a monolith."–NASA TV commentator, 7/5/97

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As for the ladies comment from Jim Cripwell, I was not insulted by it and Jim

owes me no apology for his statement. Lula from Wooly Dreams Design< I posted as well with a tongue in cheek remark about my name. I was neither insulted by Jim’s comment about ladies, nor does he owe me an apology either. I am very much a feminist in my own right, but am now and always will be a lady. Jim was being polite and I appreciate it. There are a lot of things he could have called us and chose not to…. because he is a gentleman. Anne Christopherson "Old roses are full of instructions on how to live right."

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In the meanwhile, also check on dejanews, and you will find the people who accused me of insulting all female rctners, were precisely the people I was referring to; those who make nasty postings.

Well, I guess my biggest problem with this Jim, that it is based on *your* definition of nasty, rude, insutling, etc…… I took offense to your use of the (?) because I know from personal experience that merely disagreeing with you is enough to be "one of those people". In fact, once after disagreeing with you, you inferred that I couldn’t even be considered "a member" of the newsgroup because my status as a designer excluded me from having an opinion regarding the ng! (Yes, folks, it happend the last time our Dear Jim decided he had enough of the OT postings and wanted to see the ng split into "the serious rctn" and "the chat room") And as I recall, he had even made attempts to divide and conquer the ng even before that…..) Having said that, I can see how folks could perceive that you have attempted to dictate how rctners should act. I don’t read every single post to the group, but I do read quite a few of them and rarely have I found them to be downright "nasty" as far as I am concerned. We don’t have porn postings overwhelmeing us…. We aren’t constantly bombarbed with trolls that get their kicks through their attempts at shocking us with foul language and ascii art. What we have seen are people who disagree and who have, on occasion, gone a bit too far. I don’t want a moderated ng. I willing to assume that most of the folks here don’t either. (Cuz you know – all of the "Gee, my MIL is using the sampler I made her for Kitty’s dinner tray posts would have to go too….) And if there is a group that does want a moderated ng, I would certainly support their obtaining it – then at least *this* subject would be settled once and for all. . Lori Dancing Needle Designs http://members.aol.com/dancingndl/ "When she told me I was average, she was just being mean."

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[angela wrote] sorry, jim, this is a public forum, that is the nature of Usenet. if YOU don’t like it, i suggest YOU leave.

Yes, this is a public forum. This public forum has a CHARTER which invites all who would like to post about NEEDLEWORK to do so. Freely speech to the other 4,000 newsgroups, each with their own charter, about all of the other stuff. That is why there are 4000+ newsgroups and not just one. Kathy Dyer posts the information at least once a month. Find it. Read it. It makes sense and it was done for a reason. I want to read 200 posts a day about *needlework* and not the little I’ve picked out from all of the other noise. Don’t get me wrong: it’s nice noise, helpful noise, funny, caring noise but noise nonetheless. 80% noise is a lot. It is possible to be funny, helpful and caring AND on-topic. Even the limericks were about needlework! And to that end — I am 6 stitches away from finishing a needlepoint project I converted from a cross stitch chart. I wanted to do the sheep in white wooly french knots but after trying it out, white wooly continental stitch had to do. I think the sheep were too small, the knots were overwhelming. The 6 stitches left are cotton floss overstitches so that the whale will have a neat spouty spout of water coming out that won’t get lost in the background. -Kristin

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And here’s my (unoriginal) solution, which you’ve used in the past: start more on-topic threads. We bicker because we’ve nothing else to do. (Besides stitch, I mean.) AustinAnne

And here’s another(unoriginal)additional solution…MARK YOUR HEADERS OT when they are(sorry didn’t mean to shout). Kathy Hoover

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well, i was going to stay out of this because i like you, but… If rctners want this to be a nice kind helpful newsgroup, then it will be nice kind helpful newsgroup. If rctners want this to be a place where nasty, rude, and insulting postings are the norm, then nasty, rude, and insulting postings will be the norm. Unfortunately, I am of the belief that we are literally faced with these two opposing views of rctn being mutually exclusive. Rctn will be one or the other; it cannot be both at the same time.

and i think you are just plain, old-fashioned wrong. There probably are people who hold a different view of how they would like to see rctn operating. If there are other views, clearly you do not require my, or any one else’s permission to state them. However, I would merely request you do so under a different title.

sorry, jim, this is a public forum, that is the nature of Usenet. if YOU don’t like it, i suggest YOU leave. i further suggest you either start a mailing list [listserv], or a moderated newsgroup. our dear friend Piglet can probably help you with the latter on Usenet II, you can contact her at angie — Breed of the Month – A Bavarian Cow in Honour of Oktoberfest! Gelbvieh! Commercial and/or unsolicited e-mail will be processed for a $500 Cdn handling fee. Unsolicited sending constitutes acceptance.

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Sorry to disappoint you Jim, but you said: "However, with this posting Captain Cripwell of the Starship RCTN is throwing down the gauntlet. If anyone wants to be rude to me, insult me, ridicule me etc. on the contents of this post, which will clearly be on record in dejanews, then please pick up the gauntlet." No I’m not going to be rude or nasty—but it was a joke. you know ha,ha,ha. Good lord, at least the image of you was Willian Shatner or John luke pickard(please forgive the spelling), I had green skin and was diong a snoppy dance on a pinao. And I laughed until I was in tears. And I was green. You want us to be thicked skin and let things roll off our backs like water rolls off a duck. I suggest that you need to get a little of that thick skin your self. Now on to the ladies(?) thing. Yes there were three of us mainly involved in the last tiff. But, there were others……you don’t think I’m a lady……fine. I don’t think your a gentleman, nor do I think your polite with your off handed nicey, nicey snide shots. No big deal……but I’m afraid that you’ll find that there were more than three of us that posted on that thread. Please check Deja’s news yourself and see if there were no less than 10 different people who posted something durning that tiff. So yes, you offended other people. And yes you owe them an apology. Why should this be pointed out in private e-mail? Didn’t you insult them in public? The answer to this is yes and thus should be pointed out publicly. You write: "I think I have also been accused of having ideas that are out of date, and not being "with" the current generation. IMHO politeness will never go out of style. When I invite freinds into my house for, amongstother things, conversation, I do not expect them to insult me to my face. If they do, then they will never get another invitation." You know I would rather have someone insult me to my face than behind my back. I’d respect for that person, mind you I’d too probbly not invite them back, but I would respect that they were honest. But hey, your happy with people taking your hospitality and than stabbing you in the back with nasty unkind remarks—all I can say is whatever floats your boat. Enjoy that type of two faced lifestyle where people do that sort of thing. After reading this post several times, I can only say that yes Jim, by all means take your group of followers and make a new group. But make sure that all of them think exectly like you. Make sure that they are Jim Cripwell clones. I even have a suggestion for the name: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework.my little world or you could try rec.crafts.textiles.needlework.bob.ross. You truly are not happy in this group. Either that or you need to take a vacation. Your write:" You will find over and over again that I have always maintained rctn will be what rctners want it to be. It is rather sad that people think me stupid enough to believe I could believe that in any way I could dictate what happens on rctn." Isn’t that what your trying to do with this post. You seem to think that rtcn’s very soul is at stake. Wrong!!!!!!! Because RTCN is made up of all different kinds of people. There will always be mild tiffs on this news group. And you for one express your views in a very out spoken way. You constantly say exprees your opion to this or that. (Last being the x,y numbering on a cross stitch graphs or why only a few stitches are used in a design of a certain color.) But is yours the only opinion that counts? Are the topics that you wish to discuss the only ones that count? IMHO rtcn is just fine the way it is. When something really awful happened—as in the case with the hate mail received by a fellow member hart of RCTN. It is a very strong, caring, giving and loving hart. It is a hart that knows right from wrong and calls the wrong to the carpet. It is a hart that sticks up for thoses who can’t or won’t stick up for themselves. Just wait and see the fur fly off the back of the person that wrote that letter should it EVER be post to the group. Would that be wrong? Most certainly not!!!!!!! So Jim if this isn’t the kind of group you and your follower’s want to you truly miss the hart of RCTN is beating loud, clear and strong. You truly are missing the very soul of this group. You know all I feel is pity for you. But I guess that’s what you want with this type of post. Have a cup of tea and take a good hard look at For me……I’m proud to be a member of RCTN just the way it is. Dorsey

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Now on to the ladies(?) thing. Yes there were three of us mainly involved in the last tiff. But, there were others……you don’t think I’m a lady……fine. I don’t think your a gentleman, nor do I think your polite with your off handed nicey, nicey snide shots. No big deal……but I’m afraid that you’ll find that there were more than three of us that posted on that thread. Please check Deja’s news yourself and see if there were no less than 10 different people who posted something durning that tiff. So yes, you offended other people. And yes you owe them an apology. Why should this be pointed out in private e-mail? Didn’t you insult them in public? The answer to this is yes and thus should be pointed out publicly.

I didn’t feel insulted by Jim’s post. I was saddened that he should include me in his generalization but I definitely understood his upset. And obviously other folks feel the same upset or you wouldn’t be seeing a couple of posts a day from people outside ‘the fray’ saying that rctn is becoming rude and nasty. Dorsey quotes Jim: "I think I have also been accused of having ideas that are out of date, and not being "with" the current generation. IMHO politeness will never go out of style. When I invite freinds into my house for, amongstother things, conversation, I do not expect them to insult me to my face. If they do, then they will never get another invitation." You know I would rather have someone insult me to my face than behind my back.

I don’t think that was the distinction Jim was trying to make, Dorsey. I think he was trying to say that he’d rather be with people who *do* express their opinions but do it in a non-condescending, non-attacking way, rather than be with someone who prefers rudeness and back-biting. (And if you look more closely at his post you’ll notice that he said the same thing in very similar words to mine.) I’d respect for that person, mind you I’d too probbly not invite them back, but I would respect that they were honest.

So then, what’s the difference between your person and Jim’s person? Both are giving their honest opinion and should be respected for it, but Jim’s person is one that would be invited back to give more of their honest opinions and your rude, back-biting person is one that would not be invited back. Maybe you should consider that, Dorsey. But hey, your happy with people taking your hospitality and than stabbing you in the back with nasty unkind remarks—

You’re putting your own spin on his words, he *never* said that. He said that his friends give honest opinions and that they even disagree, but that they do it in a manner that is *not* rude or back-biting. Because RTCN is made up of all different kinds of people. There will always be mild tiffs on this news group.

Mild tiffs? Tiffs that cause people to post that they’re leaving the group or that they spent the night crying can hardly be called mild, and they certainly should *not* be happening. And you for one express your views in a very out spoken way. You constantly say exprees your opion to this or that. (Last being the x,y numbering on a cross stitch graphs or why only a few stitches are used in a design of a certain color.) But is yours the only opinion that counts?

He never said it was. From what I’ve seen, Jim has no problem with either he or other people expressing their opinions. He did, however, say that he’d like see himself and others be able to express their opinions without being attacked. IMHO rtcn is just fine the way it is.

From the posts coming up on my server, a *lot* of people seem to disagree with you. So Jim if this isn’t the kind of group you and your follower’s want to

Actually, I think he sees the soul of the group quite well. The thing is he wants to preserve that soul and worries about whether it will rot away. For me……I’m proud to be a member of RCTN just the way it is.

You’re proud of a group that people read and then go cry themselves to sleep? You’re proud of a group where people have to post "ENOUGH ALREADY!" as much as twice a week? I’m proud of the group, but I’m not proud of the problems that we have, even though I’ve sometimes found myself in the middle of these frays. Teri ~~ to send email, remove "spamless" from address A rose is an argument. It proclaims the triumph of beauty over brutality, of gentleness over violence, of the ephemeral over the lasting, and of the Universal over the particular. ~~ Alain Meilland

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The more rude postings

I have snipped away the bulk of this message but had to quote something, I guess. All I wanted to say is this… I come here, I stitch, I sew, I quilt, I make pretty things. If I came here to watch the dirty laundry fly or deal with other people fighting, I would do all my stitching at a family reunion. My mother always said that if you can’t play nice, you’ll have to play outside. Now everybody either shut up or get along with each other. And while you’re at it, make something pretty! Frank

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