Pay moms to breastfeed (FOLLOWUP)

Question:

I love this!! I completely agree!! We are constantly saying how wonderful, natural, and the best choice bf is and now to expect compensation for it?? I think that it is sick. I bf my beautiful son by my own choice because I know it to be the best for him and because I am blessed enough to be able to stay home with him to develop a bf relationship. The idea that I should be compensated for it does make me feel like it demeans the whole thing. I am not a dairy maid that needs her pay for providing milk. I am a mother who thinks the world of her son and would do whatever it takes to do the best for him! Is nothing done simply because it’s the right/best thing to do? I know that mother’s who choose not to bf have very good reasons and I don’t think that they would feel like they needed compensation for making and holding the bottle, No? Iam sure atleast some would agree if they were bf that it is plain stupid. We take care and feed our babies because they need us to not because someone is paying us to. Right? The big toothless grins I get and the feel of my baby’s soft skin on my cheek and his wonderful baby smell are all the compensation I could ever need! ) Karina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought this was a great editorial: NURSING MOMS SHOULDN’T MILK SYSTEM Tax incentives for breastfeeding women ridiculous editorial by Paula Simons, Edmonton Journal, Sunday, June 27, 1999 (used without permission) I’m a nursing mother. My toddler is old enough now that a quick nip at the breast is more of a bedtime ritual than a serious meal. But when she was younger, we nursed everywhere: at restaurants and malls and bus stops, at the zoo, the museum, the Fringe. My male friends and relations have finally stopped staring uncomfortably at the ceiling when I lift my shirt. For me, unsapping that old nursing bra has become so reflexive, I could probably walk down Whyte Avenue topless without realizing my mammary glands were flapping in the wind. So you might think I’d be cheering the proposal by the Ottawa lobby group, Mothers are Women, to recognize the value of breastfeeding to the national economy through tax incentives for breastfeeding mothers. Economists at an international conference in Ottawa last week went even further, and suggested the government should pay breastfeeding women a special allowance. How ridiculous can you get? You don’t have to sell me on the medical, emotional, and economic benefits of breastfeeding. Human babies were designed to be fed on human milk. No artificial chemical concoction can come close to offering the nutritional and immunological benefits of mother’s milk. And no plastic substitute can offer a baby the psychological security and physiological advantages of a warm human breast. And breastfeeding does add value to the economy. Plenty of studies demonstrate that breastfed babies are healthier than their peers. In her first two and a half years on earth, my daughter has cost the health care system virtually nothing. She’s never been on antibiotics. She’s never had an ear infection, an upset stomach or an asthma attack. In the year and a half I’ve been back at work, I’ve never had to reduce my professional productivity by taking a "dependent sick day." In baser terms, my milk has saved me thousands of dollars, since I’ve never had to buy formula, bottles, or soothers. And since breastfed babies have healthier, straighter teeth, I’m hoping to save dental bills. Harder to measure will be the real, if intangible, dividends to my child’s emotional, psychological and intellectual well-being. The decision to breastfeed, though, is an extraordinarily personal one. I’d be lying if I didn’t say I thought it was a best choice. But I’d be arrogant and insensitive not to acknowledge that it’s not the right choice for every woman. Nursing your child gives you rewards, both practical and spiritual. It’s also physically, emotionally, and psychologically draining. Never mind the 24-hour-a-day demands of nursing a newborn. In our mechanistic culture, many people are so alienated from their bodies, the very idea of breastfeeding makes them squirm. Simply put, there isn’t enough money in the federal treasury to provide just compensation for the labour of breastfeeding. At the same time, the joys of breastfeeding transcend any monetary reward. And just how would we decide who got paid how much, anyway. Would we send federal lactation inspectors door-to-door to check on production? I don’t want Revenue Canada sticking its nose down my dress, thank you kindly. Nursing a child is an exquisitely intimate, even sensual, act. Tell me you want to pay me to breastfeed, and I’ll feel as demeaned as if you’d offered me cash for sex. I certainly don’t want this remarkable, magical relationship exploited as fodder in a war between feminist factions. And that’s what’s really going on here. This is yet another salvo in the stupid, self-defeating political battle between working and stay-at-home mothers. Somehow, the most basic human connection between mother and child has been co-opted by a row over daycare subsidies, tax cuts, and child care deductions. It’s all the more tasteless, since the suggestion that only stay-at-home mothers care enough to breastfeed is deeply insulting. I know plenty of women who went back to work full time when their babies were three and four months old, and kept right on breastfeeding, morning, evening, and night. And while the idealists and the ideologues "blue-sky" and bicker, what about our children? In Edmonton this past week, a public inquiry has been looking to the death of a 10-month-old baby boy, who died of chronic malnutrition because his mother fed him on Coffee-mate. We’d all be better served, socially, economically, and morally, if we stopped arguing over impossibilities and concentrated on providing, and funding, the best possible nutritional guidance to mothers and babies at risk. (Paula Simons is a member of The Journal’s editorial board.) — Angie Telepenko

Response:

money for breastfeeding, I’m all for it!!! look at who is formula feeding their children, more often than not, it is the young mother, the welfare mother, the jobless mother… they need to realize once you stick that bottle of formula in a baby’s mouth you aren’t just getting formula from WIC, you are getting all those Dr. bills paid for from my taxes!! Let me tell you I have had it. I know of a dear little boy, just about the same age as my son (8.5 mo.) other than check ups, my son has been to the Dr. for two ear infections (we have health ins). This other little boy has been to the Dr. EVERY OTHER WEEK!!!!!! Who is paying for that? ME Who is paying for his formula? WIC Who is paying for his daycare? ME…I could care less if someone paid me to breastfeed my children, I’m going to do it anyway, but those people who don’t have the money to support children and their bills should not be the ones to dole out formula to their babies…maybe a breastfeeding stipend would help make up their minds. my tax money is better left somewhere other than paying for formula problems,

Response:

as much as i agree with the writer, i also disagree. i think mothers on lower income should get paid to breastfeed. They get money for formula. I spent $40 dolars on grocerys this month because that’s all i had. If i was getting paid to breastfeed I might be able to feed my family better because the money that i was getting could go towards that. So here’s my point.

In the U.S. WIC gives coupons for formula for ff mothers, and coupons for food for bf mothers. Is the system different in Canada? While I agree that many women probably DO see the free formula as a better deal than the free vegetables and tuna fish, I really don’t see why the government should pay people for doing what they should be doing anyway. Right now for poor women it is a choice between feed my baby breastmilk that doesn’t have the vitamins in it becasue i can’t afford to eat healthy enough or feed my child formula because i can get that for free and give my child a healthier start.

Again, WIC pays for nutritious foods for bf women. And in any case, if the woman is THAT malnourished that she couldn’t make breastmilk, she is probably too weak from hunger to mix formula or pick up her baby anyway… Naomi

Response:

yep, we don’t get coupons. Just money. And of course their is the exhausted food bank. While I agree that many women probably DO see the free formula as a better deal than the free vegetables and tuna fish, I really don’t see why the government should pay people for doing what they should be doing anyway.

And they shouldn’t be paying women not to as it is in most cases. (Subsidized formula) Right now for poor women it is a choice between feed my baby breastmilk that doesn’t have the vitamins in it becasue i can’t afford to eat healthy enough or feed my child formula because i can get that for free and give my child a healthier start. Again, WIC pays for nutritious foods for bf women. And in any case, if the woman is THAT malnourished that she couldn’t make breastmilk, she is probably too weak from hunger to mix formula or pick up her baby anyway…

Not true. You can be malnourished and seem healthy. In canada we don’t get money for Nutrious food. Just food. $190 dollars a month for two. It isn’t alot. And where I live nutrious food is more expensive. That money for food i might add includes Diapers, Female hygene products etc. If I was using formula I could apply to recieve more. What i was saying is that if you are tight for money, finding and buying the right food and vitamin requiremnts isn’t easy. Many women go without to provide for their child. The vitamins might lack in the mothers breastmilk that the baby requires. I just had a blood test to see why I was so tired. My doctor said that I was extremly low on iron, and that I need more calcium. vitamin b, and some other ones. Then she gave me a list of food that i should eat. I looked at it and realized that I can’t afford to buy this. And if I do buy it it goes to my daughter (example, milk. which is $2.89 for 2l) I hope you understand, if not don’t be afraid to ask more Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Naomi

Response:

yep, we don’t get coupons. Just money. And of course their is the exhausted food bank.

and you can only go to the food bank if you are really in need and it has been at least 2 weeks since your cheque. Not true. You can be malnourished and seem healthy. In canada we don’t get money for Nutrious food. Just food. $190 dollars a month for two. It isn’t alot. And where I live nutrious food is more expensive. That money for food i might add includes Diapers, Female hygene products etc. If I was using formula I could apply to recieve more.

Nope the system in Canada doesn’t care if you eat apple and oranges or Kraft dinner and ketchup. I spend well over $500/month on food, and neccessities for the three of us and that is still buying the store brands and items on sale. And that inclufdes little to no veggies as they are TOO expensive! In the states milk is subsidized by the government. In Canada the Government increases the prices!!!! What i was saying is that if you are tight for money, finding and buying the right food and vitamin requiremnts isn’t easy. Many women go without to provide for their child. The vitamins might lack in the mothers breastmilk that the baby requires. I just had a blood test to see why I was so tired. My doctor said that I was extremly low on iron, and that I need more calcium. vitamin b, and some other ones. Then she gave me a list of food that i should eat. I looked at it and realized that I can’t afford to buy this. And if I do buy it it goes to my daughter (example, milk. which is $2.89 for 2l)

Vitamins is a whole nother story…very expensive for supplements!!!! Jen is very right saying that it is hard to get enough healthy stuff here to support your own body let alone your babies especially on income assistance! and a message FOR JEN……go to either SuperStore or Save-ON (overwaitee) and ask for

Response:

The 190 is what the governement says I can spend on food a month. Isn’t that ridicoulus! And they want me to like this 15 million to hockey players thing??

Yeah I have been on SS before, a lot actually because of my disability. They have no idea what life really costs…..like when was the last time YOU saw an apartment that is livable for $350 / month. I would love too, But all we have in my town is Sobeys (Only carries tofu Once a month) and Co-Op ( an inventory of 2 items). Maybe next time I go to the city i will. Right now I have to pay the 15 for the drug store brand.

ugh….where are you at? Make sure you stock up on them then cause iron defieciency is soo hard to recover from…I have always been anemic due to a childhood of poverty (normal) and a bit of genetics.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yep, we don’t get coupons. Just money. And of course their is the exhausted food bank. and you can only go to the food bank if you are really in need and it has been at least 2 weeks since your cheque. Not true. You can be malnourished and seem healthy. In canada we don’t get money for Nutrious food. Just food. $190 dollars a month for two. It isn’t alot. And where I live nutrious food is more expensive. That money for food i might add includes Diapers, Female hygene products etc. If I was using formula I could apply to recieve more. Nope the system in Canada doesn’t care if you eat apple and oranges or Kraft dinner and ketchup. I spend well over $500/month on food, and neccessities for the three of us and that is still buying the store brands and items on sale. And that inclufdes little to no veggies as they are TOO expensive! In the states milk is subsidized by the government. In Canada the Government increases the prices!!!!

The 190 is what the governement says I can spend on food a month. Isn’t that ridicoulus! And they want me to like this 15 million to hockey players thing?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What i was saying is that if you are tight for money, finding and buying the right food and vitamin requiremnts isn’t easy. Many women go without to provide for their child. The vitamins might lack in the mothers breastmilk that the baby requires. I just had a blood test to see why I was so tired. My doctor said that I was extremly low on iron, and that I need more calcium. vitamin b, and some other ones. Then she gave me a list of food that i should eat. I looked at it and realized that I can’t afford to buy this. And if I do buy it it goes to my daughter (example, milk. which is $2.89 for 2l) Vitamins is a whole nother story…very expensive for supplements!!!! Jen is very right saying that it is hard to get enough healthy stuff here to support your own body let alone your babies especially on income assistance! and a message FOR JEN……go to either SuperStore or Save-ON (overwaitee) and ask for

I would love too, But all we have in my town is Sobeys (Only carries tofu Once a month) and Co-Op ( an inventory of 2 items). Maybe next time I go to the city i will. Right now I have to pay the 15 for the drug store brand. Jenn

Response:

If you ’seem’ healthy, then you are able to make enough, good milk for your baby. Only women who are truly starving would be really unable to make milk due to food/nutrition problems. In canada we don’t get money for Nutrious food. Just food. $190 dollars a month for two. It isn’t alot. And where I live nutrious food is more expensive. That money for food i might add includes Diapers, Female hygene products etc. If I was using formula I could apply to recieve more.

$190 a month? WOW! I don’t spend much more than that for groceries for our family of 3, and we eat pretty well. What i was saying is that if you are tight for money, finding and buying the right food and vitamin requiremnts isn’t easy. Many women go without to provide for their child. The vitamins might lack in the mothers breastmilk

No. If the mother is short of vitamins, then whatever vitamins are present are tranferred into the milk, and the mother is the one who is shorted. Baby will always get anough unless mother is actually starving. that the baby requires. I just had a blood test to see why I was so tired. My doctor said that I was extremly low on iron, and that I need more calcium. vitamin b, and some other ones. Then she gave me a list of food that i should eat. I looked at it and realized that I can’t afford to buy this. And if I do buy it it goes to my daughter (example, milk. which is $2.89 for 2l)

Is powdered milk that expensive? Bread? How about flour? Hamburger? Not sure what was on the list that your doctor gave you, but it should certainly be possible to get those vitamins/minerals on a low cost diet. Naomi

Response:

like previously sais here in Canada our family spends over $400 on food and neccessities and still doesn’t get enough nutrition. No. If the mother is short of vitamins, then whatever vitamins are present are tranferred into the milk, and the mother is the one who is shorted. Baby will always get anough unless mother is actually starving.

so a mother is supposed to sacrifice her own health and well being for that of her baby. I think the baby would appreciate mommy being around and healthy if you ask me. Is powdered milk that expensive? Bread? How about flour? Hamburger? Not sure what was on the list that your doctor gave you, but it should certainly be possible to get those vitamins/minerals on a low cost diet.

Yes powders is that expesive too. Bread isn’t too bad. Hamburger is ok if you live in the right area. but the real problem is fruits and veggies!!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Beans come in many varieties and are quite nutritious and cheap! Instead of spending a lot on ground beef you can use 1/2 the amount of ground beef and the other half rice-like for tacos. You can make stuffed meat loaf (stuffed with rice, cheese, and green onions) that uses less than 1/2 the meat. You could buy produce at produce stands which usually have much better prices than grocery stores. You can plan your menus around store sales, looking in the newspaper flyers and using those to plan meals. There are all kinds of ways to stretch your money when it comes to eating nutritiously! As for vitamins, you probably don’t need supplements if you eat a well balanced diet. If you have any kind of prescription plan on insurance you can ask your doctor to keep you on prenatal vitamins while you are nursing too. Danette

Response:

not many produce stands in edmonton at any time of year except corn season – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beans come in many varieties and are quite nutritious and cheap! Instead of spending a lot on ground beef you can use 1/2 the amount of ground beef and the other half rice-like for tacos. You can make stuffed meat loaf (stuffed with rice, cheese, and green onions) that uses less than 1/2 the meat. You could buy produce at produce stands which usually have much better prices than grocery stores. You can plan your menus around store sales, looking in the newspaper flyers and using those to plan meals. There are all kinds of ways to stretch your money when it comes to eating nutritiously! As for vitamins, you probably don’t need supplements if you eat a well balanced diet. If you have any kind of prescription plan on insurance you can ask your doctor to keep you on prenatal vitamins while you are nursing too. Danette

Response:

But I came from BC and I tell ya BELIEVE ME they taste better when they are fresh there!!!!…Oh do I miss it sooooooooo much!!! heck not much is covered by insurance here eh?….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : not many produce stands in edmonton at any time of year except corn season But right now we’ve got stands selling cherries from B.C. – yumm…. And actually, we don’t need a prescription for most prenatal vitamins so they aren’t covered by insurance (not ours anyway). — Angie Telepenko

Response:

: not many produce stands in edmonton at any time of year except corn season But right now we’ve got stands selling cherries from B.C. – yumm…. And actually, we don’t need a prescription for most prenatal vitamins so they aren’t covered by insurance (not ours anyway). — Angie Telepenko

Response:

I don’t think anyone on income assistance would argue raising the amount – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This kind of goes with something I said before… that formula feeding should be for medical necessity only…. so .. with that in mind I think it’s ok to give money to women who CAN’T bf so they can buy formula…and not to any one else .. Also I can see raising the $ amount supplied for food to help the mom get what she needs in her diet plus she should still be taking prenatal vitamins.. but I guess that amounts to paying her to bf… I thank God I have the choice and I chose right this time.. Kassandra as much as i agree with the writer, i also disagree. i think mothers on lower income should get paid to breastfeed. They get money for formula. I spent $40 dolars on grocerys this month because that’s all i had. If i was getting paid to breastfeed I might be able to feed my family better because the money that i was getting could go towards that. So here’s my point. In the U.S. WIC gives coupons for formula for ff mothers, and coupons for food for bf mothers. Is the system different in Canada? While I agree that many women probably DO see the free formula as a better deal than the free vegetables and tuna fish, I really don’t see why the government should pay people for doing what they should be doing anyway. Right now for poor women it is a choice between feed my baby breastmilk that doesn’t have the vitamins in it becasue i can’t afford to eat healthy enough or feed my child formula because i can get that for free and give my child a healthier start. Again, WIC pays for nutritious foods for bf women. And in any case, if the woman is THAT malnourished that she couldn’t make breastmilk, she is probably too weak from hunger to mix formula or pick up her baby anyway… Naomi

Response:

I didn’t eat very healthy when I was nursing either, I will admit, but my daughter was and is very healthy. I took prenatal vitamins. 10 bucks is not exactly outrageous for a 3 month supply of life brand prenatal vitamins. As for only 190 a month for groceries….where are you again? If you can’t go to a food bank, which I know you are welcome to at least 4 times a month with this income, a big bag of frozen vegetables goes for the same price as a couple of boxes of Kraft Dinner…. I thought you would have more…..especially considering just family allowance is over 150 for one child…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -But I came from BC and I tell ya BELIEVE ME they taste better when they are fresh there!!!!…Oh do I miss it sooooooooo much!!! heck not much is covered by insurance here eh?….. : not many produce stands in edmonton at any time of year except corn season But right now we’ve got stands selling cherries from B.C. – yumm…. And actually, we don’t need a prescription for most prenatal vitamins so they aren’t covered by insurance (not ours anyway). — Angie Telepenko

Response:

We live in Canada…..I remember years ago when I did have to go to a food bank they first told me I could not have anything because I wasn’t on income assistance…(but didn’t have a steady job). That was in BC….my friend went a few years ago and she was told she could only go once per month. I personally am not on income assistance..but the other poster on this thread is (I think). I do not remember what amounts are for what anymore! Also keep in mind that most people on IA have to use part of their food money on shelter as Social Services has no clue as to what it really costs to rent a home! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t eat very healthy when I was nursing either, I will admit, but my daughter was and is very healthy. I took prenatal vitamins. 10 bucks is not exactly outrageous for a 3 month supply of life brand prenatal vitamins. As for only 190 a month for groceries….where are you again? If you can’t go to a food bank, which I know you are welcome to at least 4 times a month with this income, a big bag of frozen vegetables goes for the same price as a couple of boxes of Kraft Dinner…. I thought you would have more…..especially considering just family allowance is over 150 for one child…. But I came from BC and I tell ya BELIEVE ME they taste better when they are fresh there!!!!…Oh do I miss it sooooooooo much!!! heck not much is covered by insurance here eh?….. : not many produce stands in edmonton at any time of year except corn season But right now we’ve got stands selling cherries from B.C. – yumm…. And actually, we don’t need a prescription for most prenatal vitamins so they aren’t covered by insurance (not ours anyway). — Angie Telepenko

Response:

As for only 190 a month for groceries….where are you again? If you can’t go to a food bank, which I know you are welcome to at least 4 times a month with this income, a big bag of frozen vegetables goes for the same price as a couple of boxes of Kraft Dinner…. I thought you would have more…..especially considering just family allowance is over 150 for one child….

I’m the one who spends about $190 per month on groceries. Actually a bit more than that … I generally budget $70/week for our family of 2 adults and one 7 year old. (That doesn’t count school lunches for the 7 year old.) That $65 includes paper products and cat food. We eat well. I don’t scrimp or buy the cheapest brands of everything. If I had to, I’m sure I could get by on $50 a week (your quoted $190/month) without too much difficulty, though we’d of course have to eat a lot more beans/hamburger and less regular meat, fish and chicken. Naomi

Response:

I’m in Nova Scotia. If you can’t go to a food bank, which I know you are welcome to at least 4 times a month with this income, a big bag of frozen vegetables goes for the same price as a couple of boxes of Kraft Dinner….

I try to go the food bank as often as I can but it is in another town. I can’t drive. I thought you would have more…..especially considering just family allowance is over 150 for one child….

The way it works is that Welfare says you are allowed so much per month. They deduct your income like family benifits, child support and any other gov. stuff you might be eligible. Then they give you what is left over. they even send you a piece of paper saying where you can spend so much. It is for me total 190 for food (85 for my daughter and 105 for me) 20 dollars for clothing for her and 35 for me. We are allowed 17 dollars each for Misc. another 17 for travel and 288 for board/rent. That’s it. All your income goes towards this. We were supposed to get our family benifits for free but our Liberal government didn’t think poor people needed the extra income. Now it’s election time. Guess who I’m not voting for: Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But I came from BC and I tell ya BELIEVE ME they taste better when they are fresh there!!!!…Oh do I miss it sooooooooo much!!! heck not much is covered by insurance here eh?….. : not many produce stands in edmonton at any time of year except corn season But right now we’ve got stands selling cherries from B.C. – yumm…. And actually, we don’t need a prescription for most prenatal vitamins so they aren’t covered by insurance (not ours anyway). — Angie Telepenko

Response:

I feel pretty strongly that the solution for Britain would be for formula to be available on prescription only- so that all mothers that need it can get it free. It could also make some mothers more determined to breastfeed, because they could see it as a luxury good for babies- at least, thats how one of my antenatal class put it- before she gave birth. We get some benefits, because my husbands wages are pretty low. After our rent and bills are paid, we have maybe

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