Activism Change

I am leaving my sexless marriage: wife failed to perform spousal duties

Question:

 She has often things like "all men are >scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take >shower every day and generally often has been unkempt. Can I just ask >her to move out of the house if the house belongs to me? (she can move in >with her parents). I am very tired of this situation and have given up on >trying to work it out. I want all of this to be her problem and not mine.

Sounds to me like she is clinicly depressed….

Response:

Ahhh be careful with this one. I’m not sure about US laws, but in NZ especially if you’re taping a phone conversation, the person has to be informed that it’s being recorded. In my opinion that defeats the purpose, but the law says here anyway that you can actually be charged for doing it "the wrong" way. It is a good idea though!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lan wrote in message … >> >Is there anything I should watch for, like false accusations of spousal >> >abuse or something like that? She has often things like "all men are >> >scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take >Take a tape recording of her saying sexist feminist things and use it >against her

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -StillAlive wrote: > Some may still remember my earlier post to a.s.m where I complained > about my sexless marriage. In brief, my wife lost interest in sex about > two years after we tied the knot. She never really had a huge sex drive > though. She has not had have any interest in counselling either. I went > to counselling by myself, but the therapist said that she could not > suggest much without talking to my wife. > Donna was apparently content with working a easy but low paying job, > doing some volunteering and by the end of day she was always "tired" and > "not in the mood". Her money was not really desperately needed (I make a > decent engineer salary) and I do not think that her job is so exhausting > anyway, so I believe that it was just an excuse. I felt that she was > withdrawn from me and I did not feel loved and appreciated. My attempts at > communications were scoffed and Donna sent very confusing signals to me. > Now, I may not have been an angel, but I loved her (not in the last > year as love has changed into resentment), spent time with her, > never physically abused her, we had lots of interesting conversations > (especially before the marriage), and behaved as an overall nice guy. > I think that she has failed her spousal duty to "cherish" her husband > and I have therefore decided to leave her. > We live in CA. Prior to the marriage, I owned the house outright and I > still do. The title is in my name only. Same is with my IRA, I had it > prior to the marriage and did not contribute a penny to it during the > marriage. I also have a pension plan at work. > My understanding is that I will be able to keep the house and the IRA, > and we’ll have to split the 401K. Is that right? Do I need a lawyer? > I do not want her to have more than her fair share, but overall I do > not want to fight tooth and nail for every penny and would rather move on. > Is there anything I should watch for, like false accusations of spousal > abuse or something like that? She has often things like "all men are > scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take > shower every day and generally often has been unkempt. Can I just ask > her to move out of the house if the house belongs to me? (she can move in > with her parents). I am very tired of this situation and have given up on > trying to work it out. I want all of this to be her problem and not mine.

  YES, you NEED a lawyer.  Get one now! Chris Owens

Response:

>Did you ever try to really figure out why your wife has no interest in sex? >It takes more than "honey, I’m horny, let’s do it."

Yeah, I am sure this poor guy hasnt tried anything and this is all his fault. Cmon…

Response:

        Convert to Islam – sell her the "getting stoned" angle – then click your heels together three times and you and the dog can leave the Wicked Witch to it. Oy vay. —

Response:

Hey, being from Kansas I resent that!!  You have to say "there’s no place like home" while clicking your heels together or it won’t work!!  :) Daisy Nobody ever forgets WHERE they buried the hatchet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gunther Hatherer wrote in message <01be1868$0f9c00a0$LocalHost@default>… > Convert to Islam – sell her the "getting stoned" angle – >then click your heels together three times and you and the dog >can leave the Wicked Witch to it. Oy vay. >–

Response:

StillAlive wrote: > Some may still remember my earlier post to a.s.m where I complained > about my sexless marriage. In brief, my wife lost interest in sex about > two years after we tied the knot. She never really had a huge sex drive > though. She has not had have any interest in counselling either. I went > to counselling by myself, but the therapist said that she could not > suggest much without talking to my wife.

[snipped] > Is there anything I should watch for, like false accusations of spousal > abuse or something like that? She has often things like "all men are > scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take > shower every day and generally often has been unkempt. Can I just ask > her to move out of the house if the house belongs to me? (she can move in > with her parents). I am very tired of this situation and have given up on > trying to work it out. I want all of this to be her problem and not mine.

 Just something I noticed… if she doesn’t want sex and isn’t showering much, I bet she’s depressed… maybe if you combat that depression, or at least confront it, you could fix things…. she doesn’t want to go to marriage therapy because there is something wrong with her, which in her mind is more important, but she doesn’t want to tell you because you seem like such a callous uncaring bastard…oops, ignore that. — Turn that frown upside down! http://internettrash.com/users/spamgirl/ "A Diamond in the Rough"

Response:

Supernews User wrote: > A mutually rewarding sexual relationship is indeed wonderful, but is it a > requirement for true love? If your wife had a debilitating disease that > prevented her from having sexual relations, would you still be as quick to > decide she isn’t taking care of her wifely duties, therefore divorce is > immenent? What if you couldn’t take care of your *husbandly* duties? Is she > entitled to the pension and home?

This is a common response to this type of problem, and IMO, way off base.  If his wife had a disease or some other problem, then there would be a reason for her behavior.  In this case, she doesn’t. As far as recompense, how long have they been married? from the original note, they didn’t seem to be together very long. If they’ve been married for, say, three years, does that entitle her to half a pension the husband has been investing in for many more years than he’s known her? What if he’s tried everything he can to supply her with whatever she needs emotionally, and she is still just not interested?  When would you draw the line? This type of mis-matched libido is a large problem that seem to exact a high toll on many marriages when it surfaces, and couples who don’t do something about it generally end up single. Chris Lamb

Response:

Donna Tschetter wrote: > You made me grin, here! > Lots and lots of reasons put both men and women off sex. Poor hygiene > being one, stress at work being another, poor health, etc. > You cannot blame the person not responding. Communication should be in > order and steps taken to resolve or at least explain the behavior.

What if the other partner is uncommunicative? What if the problem’s been around for years? What then? You just suffer? Chris Lamb

Response:

spamgirl wrote: >  Just something I noticed… if she doesn’t want sex and isn’t showering much, > I bet she’s depressed… maybe if you combat that depression, or at least > confront it, you could fix things…. she doesn’t want to go to marriage > therapy because there is something wrong with her, which in her mind is more > important, but she doesn’t want to tell you because you seem like such a > callous uncaring bastard…oops, ignore that.

Maybe he seems that way, maybe he doesn’t.  She should take some responsibility for her problems as well, if she is indeed depressed. I really don’t understand some of the hostility toward this guy. So he wants a fufilling romantic life.  What’s wrong with that? If that’s what he wants, he should do whatever he can to develop that in his current relationship.  And if he’s done the best he can to develop that intimacy and it has had no effect, he should hit the road.  At least he’s not having an affair, the route most spurned spouces seem to take. Chris Lamb

Response:

I agree….  There is probably something going on inside of her that has nothing at all to do with you.  or rather you are not the cause of it.  But unfortunately noone can force her to see a councelor.  Tell her how much you love her and want to make it work and to please see a councelor….  Like spamgirl wrote, whe’s probably depressed!! –roseanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -spamgirl wrote: > StillAlive wrote: > > Some may still remember my earlier post to a.s.m where I complained > > about my sexless marriage. In brief, my wife lost interest in sex about > > two years after we tied the knot. She never really had a huge sex drive > > though. She has not had have any interest in counselling either. I went > > to counselling by myself, but the therapist said that she could not > > suggest much without talking to my wife. > [snipped] > > Is there anything I should watch for, like false accusations of spousal > > abuse or something like that? She has often things like "all men are > > scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take > > shower every day and generally often has been unkempt. Can I just ask > > her to move out of the house if the house belongs to me? (she can move in > > with her parents). I am very tired of this situation and have given up on > > trying to work it out. I want all of this to be her problem and not mine. >  Just something I noticed… if she doesn’t want sex and isn’t showering much, > I bet she’s depressed… maybe if you combat that depression, or at least > confront it, you could fix things…. she doesn’t want to go to marriage > therapy because there is something wrong with her, which in her mind is more > important, but she doesn’t want to tell you because you seem like such a > callous uncaring bastard…oops, ignore that. > — > Turn that frown upside down! > http://internettrash.com/users/spamgirl/ > "A Diamond in the Rough"

– Roseanne Liska @ Spectrum Computers http://www.spectrum-computers.com http://www.webcreations-va.com mailto:rosea…@spectrum-computers.com Affordable Hardware, Networking, Web Hosting and Design From the Desk of Toto:  Hated Oz, Took the Shoes, Went Home!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stacy wrote: > On 24 Nov 1998 20:17:49 PST, Donna Tschetter <Dtsc…@cris.com> wrote: > >> A mutually rewarding sexual relationship is indeed wonderful, but is it a > >> requirement for true love? If your wife had a debilitating disease that > >> prevented her from having sexual relations, would you still be as quick to > >> decide she isn’t taking care of her wifely duties, therefore divorce is > >> immenent? What if you couldn’t take care of your *husbandly* duties? Is she > >> entitled to the pension and home? > I think there would be a totally different response to a spouse who > cannot physically participate in sex (due to illness) versus one who > just doesn’t want to?  Don’t you? > If the lack of sex is due to illness, I doubt it’s going to generate > the resentment that the scenario the poster describes would.  I don’t > blame him for being PO’d.

I think perhaps a kind pre-nuptial gaurantee could be built into the standard wedding ceremony. ”Love, honor, and (optionally) obey” are too vague. The presiding official might instead say, ”Do you, Elvira, take this man etc..to provide nooky upon request, and oral sex semi-monthly, so help you god?” > Stacy > —– > When someone does something good, Applaud! You will make two people > happy.

– On average, the French bathe one-sixteenth as often as the Japanese.

Response:

I wonder what would happen to most men if they didn’t find their wives attractive any more, yet the wife "demanded" sex everyday? Why is sex a spousal duty? People that aren’t married have sex, why does it have anything to do with marriage, let alone duty? Thank god mine doesn’t bother me. We have the same libido, but we both have a big need for cuddling. I would kick him out if suddenly he "demanded" sex. What if women suddenly "demanded" that their husbands make at least 50k a year? Rubyfleur

Response:

The not showering and depression rang a bell here (ouch!).  When I worked weekends on a crisis psych line for a hospital, we had what were referred to as "regulars" who called in depressed.  It was standard fare that we insist they take a shower and then call back.  There’s just something about a shower and clean clothes that makes the world look less depressing In all serious, when reading other replies here about you wanting to leave her if she were physically incapacitated and could not have sex, I did think of this mental possibility.  I don’t see the difference – between physical and mental incapacity – except that most forms of mental incapacity that affect your sex life can be treated with drugs and therapy. JMO, Janie In article <365C249D.73822…@canlp.com>, spamgirl <spamg…@canlp.com> wrote: >  Just something I noticed… if she doesn’t want sex and isn’t showering much, > I bet she’s depressed… maybe if you combat that depression, or at least > confront it, you could fix things…. she doesn’t want to go to marriage > therapy because there is something wrong with her, which in her mind is more > important, but she doesn’t want to tell you because you seem like such a > callous uncaring bastard…oops, ignore that.

– There are two ways of spreading light — to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it.    –Edith Wharton To reply via email replace "JLT" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224

Response:

I don’t blame you for leaving, I am also in a sexless marriage.  Regarding the sex, it has diminished since we got married until now there hasn’t been anything this calendar year!  I too have considered divorcing her, perhaps one day I will. As to your problem, your concern is valid and the key to your litany is that you live in CA.  That is a common property state and you ought to get an attorney.  Regardless of what she may do you need to scrape together all positives in your favor and all negatives in hers in order to do anything. If you are on speaking terms with your wife, see if you can get a written document where she will grant you everything you want or at least a compromise on the important things.  Even without a signed agreement, I think you are in trouble. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -StillAlive wrote in message <911928085832…@aol.com>… >We live in CA. Prior to the marriage, I owned the house outright and I >still do. The title is in my name only. Same is with my IRA, I had it >prior to the marriage and did not contribute a penny to it during the >marriage. I also have a pension plan at work. >My understanding is that I will be able to keep the house and the IRA, >and we’ll have to split the 401K. Is that right? Do I need a lawyer? >I do not want her to have more than her fair share, but overall I do >not want to fight tooth and nail for every penny and would rather move on. >Is there anything I should watch for, like false accusations of spousal >abuse or something like that? She has often things like "all men are >scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take >shower every day and generally often has been unkempt. Can I just ask >her to move out of the house if the house belongs to me? (she can move in >with her parents). I am very tired of this situation and have given up on >trying to work it out. I want all of this to be her problem and not mine.

Response:

> >Is there anything I should watch for, like false accusations of spousal > >abuse or something like that? She has often things like "all men are > >scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take

Take a tape recording of her saying sexist feminist things and use it against her

Response:

In article <365C3BF4.6…@sandia.gov>, Christopher C. Lamb <ccl…@sandia.gov> writes >Supernews User wrote: >> A mutually rewarding sexual relationship is indeed wonderful, but is it a >> requirement for true love? If your wife had a debilitating disease that >> prevented her from having sexual relations, would you still be as quick to >> decide she isn’t taking care of her wifely duties, therefore divorce is >> immenent? What if you couldn’t take care of your *husbandly* duties? Is she >> entitled to the pension and home? >This is a common response to this type of problem, and IMO, >way off base.  If his wife had a disease or some other problem, >then there would be a reason for her behavior.  In this >case, she doesn’t.

Actually we don’t know that. A lot of depressive illnesses can cause a marked drop in libido, without the ‘depression’ being particularly obvious to either the sufferer themselves or those around them. And another feature of many depressive illnesses is lethargy/weariness/tiredness beyond what one would expect from the tasks undertaken. And even some of the drugs taken to treat such illnesses can themselves have an effect on libido (and the tiredness for that matter). And both men and women are subject to these without warning and for no particular reason that anyone can point a finger to. As for property division in this case, if the marriage has only lasted two or three years, the fairest would be for each to take out what they introduced, and any everyday assets/debts acquired during the term of the marriage be split half and half between them. Gets more complicated if they have had a windfall which relates to them both but is in the sole name of one (like a lottery win, perhaps). — Pat Winstanley

Response:

> This…"I don’t want to" stuff is crap and I feel >sorry for the partner that has to deal with it.  I’m sure (for many) >being turned down over and over makes them feel unloved…..

Youre goddamn right it does. ————————————————————————— What kind of universe do we live in that lets John Denver die, yet allows Michael Jackson to live?

Response:

Harry50 wrote in message <73euvl$gt…@garnet.nbnet.nb.ca>… >As to your problem, your concern is valid and the key to your litany is that >you live in CA.  That is a common property state and you ought to get an >attorney.  Regardless of what she may do you need to scrape together all >positives in your favor and all negatives in hers in order to do anything. >If you are on speaking terms with your wife, see if you can get a written >document where she will grant you everything you want or at least a >compromise on the important things.  Even without a signed agreement, I >think you are in trouble.

It’s community property state and he clearly understands the laws regarding such, still best advice is FOR getting a lawyer.

Response:

In article <365c7b5e.27073…@news.newsguy.com>, sdir…@geocities.com (Stacy) wrote: > How would you feel if your husband NEVER wanted to cuddle with you? > How would that make you feel?   > Stacy

*************************************************************** Stacy: I am a proponent of living together (for at least a couple of years) before marriage. I think that it is important to live together for a couple of years AFTER the "honeymoon period" is over (when most everyone is horny and delirious…usually the first 6 months to a year). It gives one  time to see the habits of a potential spouse. If my husband never wanted to cuddle me? I would tell him that I really missed it, and ask for him to do it more. If he didn’t, and I was really miserable, I could either learn to live without it, or tell him that I really needed affection, and if he couldn’t provide it for me, I might go outside our marriage to get it. It really depends on what you need and what you can live without. In my opinion, if my husband needed something, and I didn’t want to give it to him, or couldn’t, then the door would be open for him to get what he needed elsewhere. I love him enough to want the best for him. With or without me. Rubyfleur

Response:

I don’t think of sex as a duty but I would be (and was when it did actually happen) annoyed if Josh suddenly wasn’t into it.  I look at it as another way of expressing your love for each other and as something that both parties should want to do, not feel that they should. I would want to know what was going on if Josh never felt like it. And what else aside from our feelings for each other distinguishes him from any of my other friends if we’re not having a physical relationship ?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stacy wrote in message <365c7b5e.27073…@news.newsguy.com>… >>I wonder what would happen to most men if they didn’t find their wives >>attractive any more, yet the wife "demanded" sex everyday? Why is sex a >>spousal duty? People that aren’t married have sex, why does it have >>anything to do with marriage, let alone duty? >>Thank god mine doesn’t bother me. We have the same libido, but we both >>have a big need for cuddling. I would kick him out if suddenly he >>"demanded" sex. >>What if women suddenly "demanded" that their husbands make at least 50k a year? >>Rubyfleur >How would you feel if your husband NEVER wanted to cuddle with you? >How would that make you feel? >Stacy >—– >When someone does something good, Applaud! You will make two people >happy.

Response:

NO! You do not just suffer- You must find a way to communicate – it may involve seeing a counselor – sometimes having the issue forced in this way will help both parties see the other’s perspective in a new light. Never, never, just Suffer. You have a right to you own personal happiness. Best, Donna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Christopher C. Lamb wrote: > Donna Tschetter wrote: > > You made me grin, here! > > Lots and lots of reasons put both men and women off sex. Poor hygiene > > being one, stress at work being another, poor health, etc. > > You cannot blame the person not responding. Communication should be in > > order and steps taken to resolve or at least explain the behavior. > What if the other partner is uncommunicative? What if the > problem’s been around for years? What then? You just suffer? > Chris Lamb

Response:

Did you ever try to really figure out why your wife has no interest in sex? It takes more than "honey, I’m horny, let’s do it."
You must have loved her at one time or else why did you marry her? Have you tried to figure out when & why the relationship changed? Do you care?
And, we all see things differently .. you may not see her job as stressful, but perhaps she does. You are not in her shoes, nor is she in yours.
And, as I read it, all you are worried about is material things, what can I keep if we separate …. not what can I do to salvage my marriage.
A mutually rewarding sexual relationship is indeed wonderful, but is it a requirement for true love? If your wife had a debilitating disease that prevented her from having sexual relations, would you still be as quick to decide she isn’t taking care of her wifely duties, therefore divorce is immenent? What if you couldn’t take care of your *husbandly* duties? Is she entitled to the pension and home?
Patty    -**** Posted from Supernews, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****- http://www.supernews.com/ – Host to the the World’s Discussions & Usenet

Response:

You made me grin, here! Lots and lots of reasons put both men and women off sex. Poor hygiene being one, stress at work being another, poor health, etc. You cannot blame the person not responding. Communication should be in order and steps taken to resolve or at least explain the behavior. Donna (Don’t forget to shower before bed!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Supernews User wrote: > Did you ever try to really figure out why your wife has no interest in sex? > It takes more than "honey, I’m horny, let’s do it." > You must have loved her at one time or else why did you marry her? Have you > tried to figure out when & why the relationship changed? Do you care? > And, we all see things differently .. you may not see her job as stressful, > but perhaps she does. You are not in her shoes, nor is she in yours. > And, as I read it, all you are worried about is material things, what can I > keep if we separate …. not what can I do to salvage my marriage. > A mutually rewarding sexual relationship is indeed wonderful, but is it a > requirement for true love? If your wife had a debilitating disease that > prevented her from having sexual relations, would you still be as quick to > decide she isn’t taking care of her wifely duties, therefore divorce is > immenent? What if you couldn’t take care of your *husbandly* duties? Is she > entitled to the pension and home? > Patty >    -**** Posted from Supernews, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****- > http://www.supernews.com/ – Host to the the World’s Discussions & Usenet

Response:

Some may still remember my earlier post to a.s.m where I complained about my sexless marriage. In brief, my wife lost interest in sex about two years after we tied the knot. She never really had a huge sex drive though. She has not had have any interest in counselling either. I went to counselling by myself, but the therapist said that she could not suggest much without talking to my wife. Donna was apparently content with working a easy but low paying job, doing some volunteering and by the end of day she was always "tired" and "not in the mood". Her money was not really desperately needed (I make a decent engineer salary) and I do not think that her job is so exhausting anyway, so I believe that it was just an excuse. I felt that she was withdrawn from me and I did not feel loved and appreciated. My attempts at communications were scoffed and Donna sent very confusing signals to me. Now, I may not have been an angel, but I loved her (not in the last year as love has changed into resentment), spent time with her, never physically abused her, we had lots of interesting conversations (especially before the marriage), and behaved as an overall nice guy. I think that she has failed her spousal duty to "cherish" her husband and I have therefore decided to leave her. We live in CA. Prior to the marriage, I owned the house outright and I still do. The title is in my name only. Same is with my IRA, I had it prior to the marriage and did not contribute a penny to it during the marriage. I also have a pension plan at work. My understanding is that I will be able to keep the house and the IRA, and we’ll have to split the 401K. Is that right? Do I need a lawyer? I do not want her to have more than her fair share, but overall I do not want to fight tooth and nail for every penny and would rather move on. Is there anything I should watch for, like false accusations of spousal abuse or something like that? She has often things like "all men are scum" and considered herself a feminist. By the way, she did not take shower every day and generally often has been unkempt. Can I just ask her to move out of the house if the house belongs to me? (she can move in with her parents). I am very tired of this situation and have given up on trying to work it out. I want all of this to be her problem and not mine.

Response:

Filed under: Feminist

Related Posts

• A very ironic statement
• Kurt Cobain
• Bad Faith at Justice
• daddy versus stepdad?
• FEMINIST APPROARCH TO DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS WRONG
• Catholics need female priests
• BUMPER STICKERS FOR TODAY'S WORLD:
• Attn: Dr. Lith
• Vogue vs. Health
• About Gods and Goddesses