Gyne visits

Question:

What responses have people gotten at gyne visits? I will be setting up a gyne visit soon and I am just wondering. I will most likely head to a feminist health center coz they are inherently cooler about what women actively choose to do to their bodies. If you live in Atlanta and have had a pretty good visit with a cool gyne, preferabley female, please drop me their name in my mail. I am new to Atlanta and have had two nightmare gynecologists. I don’t want another one. Cyn

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What responses have people gotten at gyne visits? I will be setting up a gyne visit soon and I am just wondering.

My experience seems to be that nurse-practitioners are much less patronizing. Some of the worst exams I’ve had have been from male doctors. This is *not* to be sexist–but when you don’t have the same equipment, how can someone *understand* cramps or breast tenderness? All kidding aside, I have squeezed scrotums too hard, saying "Well, how tender IS this, anyway?" I have NO CLUE about things like that because I lack the same. I am new to Atlanta and have had two nightmare gynecologists. I don’t want another one.

Doctors are like carpenters. Except that they charge a lot more, and they sometimes come with horrible attitudes. If you are completely unsatisfied with the doctor’s service, SAY SO to hir face. You know you won’t be alone because the nurse is required to be present. If they are very brusk with you, pinch you painfully, clang the speculum around and jab it at you without warming it in their hand first and warning you, there is no reason you have to sit there and stay quiet. "That speculum is very cold. Can you please warm it under the lamp or in your hand for a minute first, please?" How come it’s easier for us to send tepid soup back than to say something to the doctor? Just remember that not all doctors are trained in bedside manners. Many doctors perform their first pelvic exams as med students on women who are under general anesthesia in prep for non-gynecological procedures (like an appendectomy). Believe it! — UH School of Library & Info Studies. "Whatever the cost of our o|<0_0——* libraries, the price is cheap compared to that of an ignorant =^-| |_| | nation." -Walter Cronkite [R.a.b.bit--FAQ Maintainer: "Think Ink!"] _B}_B}

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Just remember that not all doctors are trained in bedside manners. Many doctors perform their first pelvic exams as med students on women who are under general anesthesia in prep for non-gynecological procedures (like an appendectomy). Believe it!

Some years ago, Baylor med school was trying to do something about this. When I was in college, my girlfriend at the time answered an ad in the college paper for women to volunteer as subjects to help the med students learn proper pelvic exam technique. The women were divided into teams of two, and were taught to give the exams themselves. They then worked with the students to show them how to do it and provide feedback on how they were doing. I have no idea if this is done at other med schools, but it seemed like a good idea. ObBodyart: none (sorry) Stan — Stan | "The sun has riz, the sun has set, and I ain’t out of

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(med student giving pelvic exams to women UNDER GENERAL ANEASTHESIA) squicksquicksquicksquick (takes a minute to calm down and stop convulsing) Ok. ok. I can deal. OK, now having been under general many times, I can safely say if I found out that *ANYBODY* had given me an *UNNECESSARY* pelvic exam WITHOUT MY CONSENT I would SUE their fucking asses so hard they’d bleed for weeks. Now maybe my reaction is being aggravated by the fact that I know some guys in med school (or who are trying to get in, anyway) but I seriously feel ill at the very thought of this. Like, I’m not going to be able to eat my lunch now. This is an OUTRAGEOUS violation and sounds criminal to me. This is the most fucking disgusting thing I’ve ever heard of. (I know that at the med school I do research at they pay women to let students practice on them. Don’t know about the anaesthesia thing, though.)

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(med student giving pelvic exams to women UNDER GENERAL ANEASTHESIA) *UNNECESSARY* pelvic exam WITHOUT MY CONSENT I would SUE their fucking

I am so freaked by this too. I’ve never heard this before. Is this really true? I mean, how could they get away with that? God…. the medical community is so insensitive to the feminine body as it is. This would be a complete fucking outrage. But maybe we’re just going bullistic over nothing and there is a consent form involved, or something. Heidi-ho — So what about KEANU REEVES? Choosing one of today’s least able (but

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: (med student giving pelvic exams to women UNDER GENERAL ANEASTHESIA) : Ok. ok. I can deal. OK, now having been under general many times, I : can safely say if I found out that *ANYBODY* had given me an : *UNNECESSARY* pelvic exam WITHOUT MY CONSENT I would SUE their fucking : asses so hard they’d bleed for weeks. Now maybe my reaction is being : aggravated by the fact that I know some guys in med school (or who are : trying to get in, anyway) but I seriously feel ill at the very thought : of this. Like, I’m not going to be able to eat my lunch now. This is : an OUTRAGEOUS violation and sounds criminal to me. This is the most : fucking disgusting thing I’ve ever heard of. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I understand it is standard practice to give a pelvic exam to female patients before an apendectomy is performed. — Nathan A. Hill "Real Men Use UNIX" "Getting an education at Case Western Reserve University is like having $50.00 shoved up your butt, a nickel at a time." –Fortune File (slightly edited)

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(med student giving pelvic exams to women UNDER GENERAL ANEASTHESIA) *UNNECESSARY* pelvic exam WITHOUT MY CONSENT I would SUE their fucking I am so freaked by this too. I’ve never heard this before. Is this really true? I mean, how could they get away with that? God…. the medical community is so insensitive to the feminine body as it is. This would be a complete fucking outrage. But maybe we’re just going bullistic over nothing and there is a consent form involved, or something. Heidi-ho

i would assume that the women were informed, and did consent. I dont remember anything in the original post to indicate otherwise. barb — "What?! The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy." -Rage Against The Machine Know Your Enemy "They say jump, you say ‘How High?’"

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OK. Time to take a break from studying for med school. It’s the weekend, so I can’t call and ask about my school’s policy. And, I’m only a third of the way through second year, so I haven’t done pelvic exams yet. BUT, I just plain don’t think that pelvics w/o consent happen. The outcry among medical student, men and women, would end any such practice, if the medical school was stupid enough to try it. To put this in perspective, six patients recently came to the med school, the 100 of us broke into groups, and we learned how to do abdominal exams. Many of us though that 15-17 students per patient was too much, especially with three hospitals full of patients right next door. Many of us complained to the doctor who set up the course. Turns out that four of the six patients have been doing this for several years, and ALL of the patients knew exactly what they were getting in to: a two to three hour time commitent that involved having around 15-20 medical student do their first abdominal exam. To speak to the general issue of medical students doing procedures for the first time: yes, it happens. Everyone has to learn at some point. I will start my first IV on another med student, after being taught how to do it, and observing others do it. I will eventually perform my first lumbar puncture (or whatever), on a patient and under supervision, and will make every effort to do the job right. At some point, later this year, I will do my first pelvic exam. From what I’ve heard, it will either be on a volunteer, someone paid for the experience, or a consenting patient who knows that a medical student will be doing the pelvic exam, assisted and guided by a doctor. The issue of consent is taken very seriously, and the larger issue of teaching is taken very seriously. Unfortunately, a tradeoff must be made: a patient consents to a procedure done by a medical student, knowing that the student is inexperienced, but also knowing that the student will become a better doctor because of it. Every time I’m in the hospital, I wonder whether I should refer to myself as a "student doctor" or a "medical student." "Student doctor", in my mind, implies a higher skill level than I have, so I prefer "medical student." Finally, and unfortunately, the medical community has been less than sensitive to the female body in the past. And, unfortunately, some of that continues now. But, believe me, there are men and women, doctors and residents and students, who are tremendously interested in improving the medical experience women have. [shoot, that everyone has. I hate that so many people are distrustful of the medical community] Ok, rant off. ObBodMod: I wanna get an chest X-ray: nipple rings look *so* cool on X-Ray. And, next week, after exams, I’m going to try to up-guage from a 14 to a 12. — Just Greg | Do I contradict myself? | Very well then I contradict myself

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Please correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I understand it is standard practice to give a pelvic exam to female patients before an apendectomy is performed.

Key word is "unneccessary." In cases of emergency apendectomy, it _is_ neccessary to check for things like ovarian cysts and ectopic pregnancy. There are an awful lot of procedures done under general anesthesia where a pelvic exam is _not_ neccessary. That’s what is bothering people. — . *{/<< *.{/%} .’ KD6WUR

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just remember that not all doctors are trained in bedside manners. Many doctors perform their first pelvic exams as med students on women who are under general anesthesia in prep for non-gynecological procedures (like an appendectomy). Believe it! Some years ago, Baylor med school was trying to do something about this. When I was in college, my girlfriend at the time answered an ad in the college paper for women to volunteer as subjects to help the med students learn proper pelvic exam technique. The women were divided into teams of two, and were taught to give the exams themselves. They then worked with the students to show them how to do it and provide feedback on how they were doing. I have no idea if this is done at other med schools, but it seemed like a good idea. ObBodyart: none (sorry) Stan — Stan | "The sun has riz, the sun has set, and I ain’t out of

u c san diego med school has a woman on staff who teaches pelvic exams. she does this by being examined by every med student. she lays on the table, legs in place, sheet over legs, and holds a hand mirror past the sheet and gives verbal instuctions. she doesn’t like to be hurt, so she is very careful to stop them before they do anything wrong.

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That was my understanding, yes, because in women the symptoms of appendicits and gonorrhea are similar. — I’m still the apple of my daddy’s eye I’m my mama’s worst fears realized

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To speak to the general issue of medical students doing procedures for the first time: yes, it happens. Everyone has to learn at some point.[.....] Unfortunately, a tradeoff must be made: a patient consents to a procedure done by a medical student, knowing that the student is inexperienced, but also knowing that the student will become a better doctor because of it.

I have done all my doctoring at the Family Medicine Unit at the local hospital here (with a reasonable large medical school) for almost six years. I have always had medical students/interns/residents as my primary health care practitioners for that time. I have never received anything but exemplary care from them. The students tend to spend more time with you, check what they’ve decided with the staff people about, and generally show more concern (because they’re scared as hell of making as mistake.) I have had three IUDs put in (not at the same time:)) by doctors who had never done it before. My son was to be delivered by an intern (his `first’ baby), but I had to have a cesearian, so the -resident surgeon- and -resident anesthesiologist- got to do it instead. When I had to have the lumbar puncture done (for the epidural, I was awake for the section and got to watch [squicked the -surgeon-]), my intern asked me if he could have a try, under supervision of the anesthesia resident, as he’d never got to do one before. And he did,three times, before I said that he’d used up my good will (I was in labour, and not entirely my normal cordial self.) My point is that I knew what these people were doing (trying to be good doctors) and I trusted them to do their best. Remember, they are generally pretty competent and knowledgable in theory before they are turned loose on the general public. In a family practice setting, they are also very heavily supervised. I’m finally on the lookout for a permanent physician, because I’m tired of breaking in a new doc every two years, then they graduate and go to Dawson City or wherever rather than setting up in the city. Every time I’m in the hospital, I wonder whether I should refer to myself as a "student doctor" or a "medical student." "Student doctor", in my mind, implies a higher skill level than I have, so I prefer "medical student."

`Student Doctor’ sounds a bit silly to me, to be honest. I think that it’s very imprtant to identify oneself. Some people really can’t handle dealing with students, and they should be given the perogitive of refusing. ObBodyArt:My doc has a -very- interesting piercing, I doubt that she’d be squicked by anything she’d see in a gyn exam!

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^^^ No, they are just doctors. Get over the fact that they are one and the same OK. Time to take a break from studying for med school. It’s the weekend, so I can’t call and ask about my school’s policy. And, I’m only a third of the way through second year, so I haven’t done pelvic exams yet. BUT, I just plain don’t think that pelvics w/o consent happen. The outcry among medical student, men and women, would end any such practice, if the medical school was stupid enough to try it.

Well, I think the medical profession has come a long way since even just a decade ago. I know the Professional Patients program at the University of Hawaii is one of only a handful (less than 10) in the country–at least it was when *I* was in the program. To put this in perspective, six patients recently came to the med school, the 100 of us broke into groups, and we learned how to do abdominal exams. Many of us though that 15-17 students per patient was too much, especially with three hospitals full of patients right next door.

Ohmigod–even as professional patients, a ratio of 1:15 is too much! Our ratio was 1:1 or on busy rotations, 1:2. The personal interaction during the procedure is essential in helping teach a med student. That’s the whole point of doing an exam and not just watching a video or using a dummy. At some point, later this year, I will do my first pelvic exam. From what I’ve heard, it will either be on a volunteer, someone paid for the experience, or a consenting patient who knows that a medical student will be doing the pelvic exam, assisted and guided by a doctor.

Talk to your director about a professional patient program. It’s one thing to have a consenting patient–it’s another to use a professional female patient who has herself performed pelvic exams, so knows how to perform them, AND can tell the student how each procedure is being done (correctly or incorrectly) as a guide. If you are using the speculum incorrection, for example, a professional patient can TELL you that, and help you work it correctly to where it feels comfortable. "When you have your own practice, please have a warming lamp for your specula, socks on the stirrups and posters on the ceiling, and please TELL me before you do anything." Your professor will probably not remember to tell you small (but important) things like that. doctor because of it. Every time I’m in the hospital, I wonder whether I should refer to myself as a "student doctor" or a "medical student." "Student doctor", in my mind, implies a higher skill level than I have, so I prefer "medical student."

"Medical student" is the terminology we have always used. We don’t call our interns "student librarian." Finally, and unfortunately, the medical community has been less than sensitive to the female body in the past. And, unfortunately, some of that continues now.

Yeah–how about GYNs that come in, never even make eye contact with the patient, not say anything, rattle scary-sounding metal instruments behind the sheet, insert blunt cold instruments into a woman without warning, and grab and squeeze sensitive breast tissue? It happens more often than we’d like. Now imagine walking into a situation like that with pierced nipples or labia? I hate that so many people are distrustful of the medical community.

At least the profession is not nearly as distrusted as the lawyers. I think a lot of the distrust comes from old-fashioned paternalistic types who thought they "knew their patients the best," regardless. People are usually scared enough by the time they walk through the door–it doesn’t help that the prevailing philosophy among the masses is that doctors are all-knowing. — UH School of Library & Info Studies. "Whatever the cost of our o|<0_0——* libraries, the price is cheap compared to that of an ignorant =^-| |_| | nation." -Walter Cronkite [R.a.b.bit--FAQ Maintainer: "Think Ink!"] _B}_B}

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But who says that they are being done? Y’all just went ballistic over these procedures that you have no reason to think are being done at all, never mind without the patient’s consent. Jeez, don’t get your, uh, …panties in a wad. (sorry, it just slipped out.) — Ray Shea | SES, Inc. Austin TX || "Computers kinda suck."

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OK. Sorry. I’ve calmed down now. what my initial reaction was about was doctors practicing pelvics on unconcious women without their consent. I am fully aware in many cases it is necessary for exams to be performed whether or not the woman is conscious. My (paranoid?) vision was of medical students practicing on unconscious women for the sake of practice, not necessity. I certainly hope that this does not happen. In retrospect, I think I may have overreacted to and misinterpreted Lani’s post. Well, as Lani said, "we all have our days." Mine was Saturday.

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Gyne visits

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