Caution re Denninger Petition – Fathers Rights activists | Feminist

Caution re Denninger Petition – Fathers Rights activists

Question:

Kathryn Litherland <lit…@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10006281014380.12268-100…@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>… > Dear Karl and Bob: > No one is listening to you two anymore. > Why don’t you do us all a favor and take it to email?

If that is true, Kathryn, then Karl’s screwy petition solicitation thread has been properly reduced to "not being listened to", which is fine with me. Thanks for pointing out the decreased effectiveness of Karl’s ranting on this thread. There continue to be viable alternatives by which everyone may communicate their views with Presidential Candidates without stooping to the non-credible level of Karl’s off-the-wall petitions. But, I forgot, you are not listening anymore, Kathryn. –Bob Hirschfeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> |Kathy Litherland | People make their own history, but > No hacemos el amor;|Dept. of Anthro | they do not make it under > El nos hace |U. of Illinois | circumstances of their own choosing

Response:

Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article <8jc2qg$5i…@pita.alt.net>… > In article <01bfe054$c2e18ee0$ec3184ce@kfvtjuml>,

-snip- Thanks for ignoring both sides of the Denninger-initiated thread. -Bob Hirschfeld, JD Legal Educator and Strategist http://www.nolawyer.com

Response:

Not a very accurate quote, "Poooooooooooooopie Pantss", but a funny parody, adding to the noise which has drowned out Denninger’s rant and is causing Karl’s whole thread to be ignored.. Poooooooooooooopie Pantss <maytehpantsbew…@snuhants.com> wrote in article <39575836.10672…@news.alt.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On 26 Jun 2000 04:14:39 GMT, "Bob Hirschfeld, JD" > <BobHirschfel…@nolawyer.com> wrote: > >Karl Denninger, who professes to "serve spams for supper with ketchup", > >served up his > >"Cookbok" message simultaneously to all the following newsfroups: >alt.mens-rights,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,soc.men,soc.women,alt.support. d i >vorce,alt.child-support,misc.kids,alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.sin g l > >e-parents,alt.support.parents.with-custody > >Surely invited signers of Karl’s "new cookbook", especially > >"vegan rights people" ought to know what kind of person they are > >endorsing or permitting to cook for them. They should each, before > >baking, > >be made aware of the following verbatim quote from Karl on > >an email forum, several days ago: > >"I am NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN, and NEVER WILL BE interested in cozying up to > >"vegan’s rights" people. No way, no how, never. I have ZERO interest in > >seeing a system perpetuated that uses no tofu in stir fry , > >regardless > >of WHICH parent gets the wok. > >"Unlike YOU, I’d like to see ALL of the so-called "vegan’s rights" people > >- > >along with the "fruitarians" and the "Emmeril wannabe" people – PUT OUT OF THE COOKING > >BUSINESS." > >Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article > ><8j5dje$89…@pitabreadisgood.alt.net>… > >> WATCH MY NEW INFOMERCIAL and add your voice to the cacaphony resounding through > >> the offices of our new Ronco Egg Poacher! > >-snip-

Response:

Kathryn Litherland wrote: > Dear Karl and Bob: > No one is listening to you two anymore. > Why don’t you do us all a favor and take it to email?

I don’t "get" the Karl vs. Bob thing. I watch it with distracted interest, skip most of the posts, and secretly wish these guys would "keep their eye on the prize" rather then slugging it out among themselves. I don’t care if they take it private of not. This ongoing flame war, though, seems to me to be a big part of the reason that guys have been unable to make effective political advances with these issues. They can even convince *each other* never mind those who need to be convinced. The silly things that folks bicker about on this topic is pointless anyway. Politics is rarely accomplished with a scalpel, it is an environment where the bludgeon is most effective. *Any* recognition or progress with these issues is important, anything else is "just details". And truth has *nothing* to do with it. Currency is power, with sophism and lies to make it more palatable to those subjected. Oh, well, I’ll just keep doing what *I* can, and to heck with everybody else. I really don’t give a damn what anybody else does, anyway, I suppose. Best – Fido – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> |Kathy Litherland | People make their own history, but > No hacemos el amor;|Dept. of Anthro | they do not make it under > El nos hace |U. of Illinois | circumstances of their own choosing

Response:

On 28 Jun 2000 15:54:03 GMT, "Bob Hirschfeld, JD" <BobHirschfel…@nolawyer.com> wrote: >Not a very accurate quote, "Poooooooooooooopie Pantss", but a funny parody, >adding to the noise which has drowned out Denninger’s rant and is causing >Karl’s whole thread to be ignored..

Just doing my job. :-) Poopie Pants – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Poooooooooooooopie Pantss <maytehpantsbew…@snuhants.com> wrote in article ><39575836.10672…@news.alt.net>… >> On 26 Jun 2000 04:14:39 GMT, "Bob Hirschfeld, JD" >> <BobHirschfel…@nolawyer.com> wrote: >> >Karl Denninger, who professes to "serve spams for supper with ketchup", >> >served up his >> >"Cookbok" message simultaneously to all the following newsfroups: >>alt.mens-rights,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,soc.men,soc.women,alt.support .d >i >>vorce,alt.child-support,misc.kids,alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.si ng >l >> >e-parents,alt.support.parents.with-custody >> >Surely invited signers of Karl’s "new cookbook", especially >> >"vegan rights people" ought to know what kind of person they are >> >endorsing or permitting to cook for them. They should each, before >> >baking, >> >be made aware of the following verbatim quote from Karl on >> >an email forum, several days ago: >> >"I am NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN, and NEVER WILL BE interested in cozying up >to >> >"vegan’s rights" people. No way, no how, never. I have ZERO interest >in >> >seeing a system perpetuated that uses no tofu in stir fry , >> >regardless >> >of WHICH parent gets the wok. >> >"Unlike YOU, I’d like to see ALL of the so-called "vegan’s rights" >people >> >- >> >along with the "fruitarians" and the "Emmeril wannabe" people – PUT OUT >OF THE COOKING >> >BUSINESS." >> >Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article >> ><8j5dje$89…@pitabreadisgood.alt.net>… >> >> WATCH MY NEW INFOMERCIAL and add your voice to the cacaphony >resounding through >> >> the offices of our new Ronco Egg Poacher! >> >-snip-

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Response:

In article <01bfe054$c2e18ee0$ec3184ce@kfvtjuml>, Bob Hirschfeld, JD <BobHirschfel…@nolawyer.com> spewed barely-coherent nonsense that decoded to something like: >Ranter Denninger….

<elided> Bob still can’t answer to the issues, and still can’t manage to do anything more than call names. He’s had several opportunities here, but still utterly fails to come through. So sad….. One must wonder if Bob needs meds. In the meantime, the petition to our Presidential Candidates remains available at http://childrens-justice.org. In fact, just this evening we transmitted (successfully) another load of them to the candidates. I recommend AGAINST using NOW’s site for this kind of stuff. Besides the obvious – you’re stealing resources from a group that is obviously opposed to what you’re intending here – there’s also the practical matter of NOW being able to include whatever ELSE they want along with your transmission – without your knowledge or consent. Who knows what’s included there… My cover page, in the converse, is visible on the web site and can be viewed by anyone interested – so you know exactly what is being sent when you send a fax from my petition system. — — Karl Denninger (k…@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective solutions on the Internet http://childrens-justice.org Working to protect children’s rights

Response:

Response:

On 26 Jun 2000 04:14:39 GMT, "Bob Hirschfeld, JD" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<BobHirschfel…@nolawyer.com> wrote: >Karl Denninger, who professes to "serve spams for supper with ketchup", >served up his >"Cookbok" message simultaneously to all the following newsfroups: >alt.mens-rights,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,soc.men,soc.women,alt.support. di >vorce,alt.child-support,misc.kids,alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.sin gl >e-parents,alt.support.parents.with-custody >Surely invited signers of Karl’s "new cookbook", especially >"vegan rights people" ought to know what kind of person they are >endorsing or permitting to cook for them. They should each, before >baking, >be made aware of the following verbatim quote from Karl on >an email forum, several days ago: >"I am NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN, and NEVER WILL BE interested in cozying up to >"vegan’s rights" people. No way, no how, never. I have ZERO interest in >seeing a system perpetuated that uses no tofu in stir fry , >regardless >of WHICH parent gets the wok. >"Unlike YOU, I’d like to see ALL of the so-called "vegan’s rights" people >- >along with the "fruitarians" and the "Emmeril wannabe" people – PUT OUT OF THE COOKING >BUSINESS." >Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article ><8j5dje$89…@pitabreadisgood.alt.net>… >> WATCH MY NEW INFOMERCIAL and add your voice to the cacaphony resounding through >> the offices of our new Ronco Egg Poacher! >-snip-

Response:

First: SIGN THE PETITION at http://childrens-justice.org Now, on to the show That quote is spot-on. While Bob, Mr. Disbarred Lawyer (who, according to the Arizona Supreme Court, was disbarred for a massive number of violations of their professional standards) has (as he always does) taken this out of context, he is correct in that those were my (out of context) words. Anyone who is interested in the CONTEXT is welcome to email me for a COMPLETE copy of my posting to that list. Unlike Bob, I will be happy to send you the ENTIRE thing. My post on that list was in response to Bob asserting a number of things, including that "he knows best", despite the fact that BOB has presided, along with the "NCFC", over the last 20 years of the blatent rape of children’s rights in the United States – and BOTH OF THEM have been utterly ineffective in doing ANYTHING about it. This includes his claim to be "for fathers" when in fact he filed a petition to the US Supreme Court regarding Elian Gonzalez *AFTER THE FATHER’S ATTORNEY IGNORED HIM.* That is, after being told (by silence) that he was IRRELAVENT and his intervention on behalf of the father WAS NOT WANTED, *Bob* decided that *HE* knew what was best for the father and filed ANYWAY, despite their lack of desire to have him intervene. I reproduce below the ENTIRE text of a letter I penned and posted in FEBRUARY of this year, after so-called "children’s rights" organizations proved their true colors to me – that they are not interested in the rights and best interest of children AT ALL. BOB, and you, should particularly read this letter. It sums up the vomitous reaction I have to people like Bob Hirschfeld. After you’ve read this article, you might want to sign the petition at: http://childrens-justice.org — Begin quoted material from the above web site: The Difficulty with Being A Children’s Rights Activist In the last few days I’ve been forced to reflect on what makes me different from the others in this area – why I cannot align myself with the NCFC, ACFC, or (at least of those to date) all of the other organizations in my work for children and justice. I have been forced to conclude that these groups are not, in fact, putting children first in their deliberations and activities, but are rather using children as the same kind of human shield that I have decried on countless occasions. And that, my friends, makes for a lonely fight indeed! I find myself increasing at odds with many groups and organizations that, on the surface, would appear to be allies. Groups that are out there to fight some of the injustices that men, for example, suffer in the family courts. It is easy to align with these causes, for, as a man, I do see what is frequently done there. It is also easy to see the fact that children do better in a two-parent household, and that some of these groups would benefit kids if their reforms were to come to pass. I have concluded, however, that the benefit to children from their policies is incidental rather than inherent, and worse, that even if the benefit to children was not there, they would hold onto their positions anyway. The recent Elian Gonzalez case is a good example. Everyone is falling over themselves to use Elian in one way or another. The feminists are crowing about how Elian should stay "where his mother intended". Politicians are fawning over campaign contributions from Little Havana, parroting whatever will make those people happy; there has been nearly three quarters of a million dollars "given" to candidates thus far. The men’s rights activists are howling about how Elian’s Dad – his sole surviving biological parent – must get his kid back. The latter, by the way, happens to be morally and ethically correct, in my opinion, but these people are pushing their point from the wrong agenda, and being right for an unjust reason is still wrong! Another organization recently told me that while they liked what I was doing with my petition drive, they could not support it unless I removed all references to child support, because that issue is the "third rail" in politics. The problem with removing the link between shared parenting and child support abatement, of course, is that a person who has all their money taken for child support cannot afford shared parenting, and it is precisely the lower economic classes – the working poor and lower-middle class – where the benefits for children of that arrangement are most pronounced! When you boil this down, reality is that these groups are essentially all looking at this problem through adult eyes, not the eyes of kids. What’s worse, they’re using children as their banner to wave around in front of lawmakers for their own adult agenda. Why? Because it works – who wants to vote against the image of a two-year-old smiling child (or take the risk of your opponent trotting out that image in the next campaign)? The problem with this, however, is that these groups no more represent the best interests of children than does a Mako Shark circling for its next meal (with apologizes to the Sharks of the world!) The positions at this web site are the for the explicit purpose of resolving problems that children face. This site is about, and I am about, destroying the perverse incentives to have children out of wedlock, to destroy families, and to place children at risk. This goal and purpose drives the policy positions I take – not the other way around – which means that there are no third rails – except those that place kids at risk. Shared parenting and the end of our current child support system isn’t about helping men or women. Its about recognizing the same priorities and rights that a child has in a married family and getting rid of the incentives that currently exist to be selfish for the explicit purpose and love of money – a uniquely adult perspective that children neither understand or benefit from. Its about getting rid of the concept and idea of taking children as human shields in adult wars, regardless of who’s doing it or why. And its about facing the fact that, as near as I can determine, there are no current national organizations that are honestly dealing with these issues from the viewpoint of the children. Karl S. Denninger i…@childrens-justice.org http://childrens-justice.org — — Karl Denninger (k…@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective solutions on the Internet http://childrens-justice.org Working to protect children’s rights In article <01bfdf23$ee772ba0$f91bd040@kfvtjuml>, Bob Hirschfeld, JD <BobHirschfel…@nolawyer.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Karl Denninger, who professes to "serve spammers for supper with ketchup", >spammed his >"Petition" message simultaneously to all the following newsgroups: >alt.mens-rights,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,soc.men,soc.women,alt.support. di >vorce,alt.child-support,misc.kids,alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.sin gl >e-parents,alt.support.parents.with-custody >Surely invited signers of Karl’s "new petition", especially >"fathers rights people" ought to know what kind of person they are >endorsing or permitting to speak for them. They should each, before >signing, >be made aware of the following verbatim quote from Karl on >an email forum, several days ago: >"I am NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN, and NEVER WILL BE interested in cozying up to >"father’s rights" people. No way, no how, never. I have ZERO interest in >seeing a system perpetuated that rapes CHILDREN of their parents, >regardless >of WHICH parent gets the broom handle. >"Unlike YOU, I’d like to see ALL of the so-called "father’s rights" people >- >along with the "feminists" and the "mother’s rights" people – PUT OUT OF >BUSINESS." >Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article ><8j5dje$89…@pita.alt.net>… >> SIGN THE PETITION and add your voice to the cacaphony resounding through >> the offices of our Presidential Candidates! >-snip-

Response:

Mr. Disbarred Attorney continues to evade the issues and instead spew invective and ad-hominen attacks. Which, in the spirit of free speech, he is entitled to do. However, that doesn’t change any of the facts which he has refused to address (perhaps because he can’t?) You do the math; 1. Here’s an alleged father’s rights organization’s director telling you to use a feminist outfit to send opinions to lawmakers – when HIS organization doesn’t even HAVE such resources available to you as a member of the public. 2. On the other hand, here’s one lone hack with a petition web site developed on his own time, spending his own money out-of-pocket that does EXACTLY what it says it will do, and who has put his own money and effort where his mouth is. If you’re interested in my actual position on the issues, it is in print. On my web page below. Where Hirschfeld cannot misrepresent what it says, does, or is. http://childrens-justice.org (BTW, thanks for all the publicity BOB. The petition signature count is growing rapidly, no doubt due to your further spreading the word about it far and wide!) — — Karl Denninger (k…@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective solutions on the Internet http://childrens-justice.org Working to protect children’s rights In article <01bfdfcc$ebed8ec0$cb3084ce@kfvtjuml>, Bob Hirschfeld, JD <BobHirschfeldJD@disbarred_lawyer.com> appears to have spewed the following petty invective: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Typical Ranter Denninger, ……

Response:

Ranter Denninger, as he stated, is indeed a "lone hack" because his personal campaign of ersatz self-aggrandizement alienates the Fathers Rights Movement, and his repeated mad-dog biting of anyone close enough to bite, prevents him from receiving the self-validation he so desperately seeks by getting other to sign his off-the-wall, non-credible petition(s). Denninger, who styles himself an Internet software programmer, wants to be lauded for his fax-spamming website. But it’s nothing new or unique, as the NOW Fax-sending website demonstrates. The big difference between Denninger’s fax-spamming site and NOW’s, is that Denninger limits his desperately sought "signers" to parroting his harmful writings, whereas NOW’s site allows you to make up your own message, even if it is contrary to or deviates from NOW’s views. (At least until NOW figures that out and restricts access to its automated FAX service.) The URL where you may use NOW’s own fax resources, even against NOW’s position is: http://www.capweb.net/now/contact.morph?exectoo=true Denninger also thinks he can refocus internet communications to what he alone considers "facts" or "issues". A typical debating ploy, and one which doesn’t fool anyone. His enraged Rumplestiltskin act also involves hypocrite Denninger’s "anti-spam" pretense, when he persists in his own spamming in support of his quest for self-validation. The series of Denninger posts to which this is a response, were spammed by him to alt.mens-rights,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,soc.men,soc.women,alt.support.d i vorce,alt.child-support,misc.kids,alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.sing l e-parents,alt.support.parents.with-custody Denninger claims that my Usenet and email-forum exposure of him has resulted in extra signatures to his so-called petition. Perhaps so, but you still have the opportunity to communicate directly and without Denninger’s rants being included, with Presidential Candidates and Legislators. Meanwhile, Mr. Denninger’s goal of discrediting me may have resulted in an unidentified increase in purchases of my Legal Pro Se Education Tapes at http://www.nolawyer.com/videordr.html Or perhaps not. I have plenty of other channels by which people learn of my beneficial educational services and products. Deninger’s angry seeking out and badmouthing me on a few of those channels seems to have improved my sales, although one can rarely pinpoint such trends, just as Denninger is unable to prove that "signatures" to his various ranting petitions arose directly from my continuing to expose his hatred of the Fathers Rights Movement. Same goes for the steadily increasing number of new memberships via Internet, to Denninger’s hated National Congress for Fathers and Children (NCFC) http://www.ncfc.net/howjoin.html No doubt, Denninger will attempt to fire off a response to this message as a further attempt to spam the newsgroups with pleas to sign his self-aggrandizing, non-credible "petitions.’ There is indeed a grass-roots movement attempting to overturn our corrupt domestic relations system. That movement focuses on the mutual rights and obligations of parents as well as children. Lone hack Denninger has repeatedly disavowed and alienated himself from that real movement. What a pathetic, ineffectual Rumplestiltskin he is. Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article <8j9a8t$g8…@pita.alt.net>… -snip- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> http://childrens-snip- > (BTW, thanks for all the publicity BOB. The petition signature count is > growing rapidly, no doubt due to your further spreading the word about it > far and wide!)

Response:

Typical Ranter Denninger, the proud self-described hater and enemy of fathers rights. He wants you to sign his ersatz petition BEFORE you read his foaming-at-the-mouth rant below. That’s because just reading his rant is likely to deter you from signing something promoted by a red-flag-charging angry bull like Denninger. Denninger performs a Rumplestiltskin act whenever someone fails to heed his infallible instructions and commands. His ranting about several good-faith earnest efforts to speed up the Elian Miami Relatives’ desperate delaying tactics, is typical. As I predicted, the case finally made its way up to the US Supreme Court today. That court had and declined two previous opportunities to seize control of Elian’s case, months ago http://www.ncfc.net/eliansc2.txt Perhaps the high court will mercifully speed up its denial of certiorari to the Miami Relatives so that Elian and his Dad can at last go home this week. Denninger and his completely off-the-wall spam-faxed petitions won’t affect Elian, either. If you’re interested in expressing your legislative goals and opinions to your federal legislators, there is a better way. Write what you want, in your own words, and send it yourself. And if you’d like to stick the National Organization for Women with the cost of faxing your legislators with positions likely to be opposite from theirs, use NOW’s auto-fax web page (while it lasts) at: http://www.capweb.net/now/contact.morph?exectoo=true Consider joining the 2-decades-service fathers rights organization which Karl hates so much. http://www.ncfc.net/howjoin.html The National Congress for Fathers and Children Hey Karl, read the other posts responding to your "petition" usenet spam post. They’re laughing at you. Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article <8j87o7$n8…@pita.alt.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> First: > SIGN THE PETITION at http://childrens-snip- > Now, on to the show > That quote is spot-on. > While Bob, Mr. Disbarred Lawyer (who, according to the Arizona Supreme > Court, was disbarred for a massive number of violations of their > professional standards) has (as he always does) taken this out of > context, he is correct in that those were my (out of context) words. > Anyone who is interested in the CONTEXT is welcome to email me for a > COMPLETE copy of my posting to that list. Unlike Bob, I will be happy to > send you the ENTIRE thing. > My post on that list was in response to Bob asserting a number of things, > including that "he knows best", despite the fact that BOB has presided, > along with the "NCFC", over the last 20 years of the blatent rape of > children’s rights in the United States – and BOTH OF THEM have been > utterly ineffective in doing ANYTHING about it. > This includes his claim to be "for fathers" when in fact he filed a petition > to the US Supreme Court regarding Elian Gonzalez *AFTER THE FATHER’S > ATTORNEY IGNORED HIM.* > That is, after being told (by silence) that he was IRRELAVENT and his > intervention on behalf of the father WAS NOT WANTED, *Bob* decided that *HE* > knew what was best for the father and filed ANYWAY, despite their lack of > desire to have him intervene. > I reproduce below the ENTIRE text of a letter I penned and posted in > FEBRUARY of this year, after so-called "children’s rights" organizations > proved their true colors to me – that they are not interested in the rights > and best interest of children AT ALL. > BOB, and you, should particularly read this letter. It sums up the vomitous > reaction I have to people like Bob Hirschfeld. > After you’ve read this article, you might want to sign the petition at: > http://childrens-snip > — Begin quoted material from the above web site: > The Difficulty with Being A Children’s Rights Activist > In the last few days I’ve been forced to reflect on what makes me different > from the others in this area – why I cannot align myself with the NCFC, > ACFC, or (at least of those to date) all of the other organizations in my > work for children and justice. > I have been forced to conclude that these groups are not, in fact, putting > children first in their deliberations and activities, but are rather using > children as the same kind of human shield that I have decried on countless > occasions. > And that, my friends, makes for a lonely fight indeed! > I find myself increasing at odds with many groups and organizations that, on > the surface, would appear to be allies. Groups that are out there to fight > some of the injustices that men, for example, suffer in the family courts. > It is easy to align with these causes, for, as a man, I do see what is > frequently done there. It is also easy to see the fact that children do > better in a two-parent household, and that some of these groups would > benefit kids if their reforms were to come to pass. > I have concluded, however, that the benefit to children from their policies > is incidental rather than inherent, and worse, that even if the benefit to > children was not there, they would hold onto their positions anyway. > The recent Elian Gonzalez case is a good example. Everyone is falling over > themselves to use Elian in one way or another. The feminists are crowing > about how Elian should stay "where his mother intended". Politicians are > fawning over campaign contributions from Little Havana, parroting whatever > will make those people happy; there has been nearly three quarters of a > million dollars "given" to candidates thus far. The men’s rights activists > are howling about how Elian’s Dad – his sole surviving biological parent – > must get his kid back. The latter, by the way, happens to be morally and > ethically correct, in my opinion, but these people are pushing their point > from the wrong agenda, and being right for an unjust reason is still wrong! > Another organization recently told me that while they liked what I was doing > with my petition drive, they could not support it unless I removed all > references to child support, because that issue is the "third rail" in > politics. The problem with removing the link between shared parenting and > child support abatement, of course, is that a person who has all their money > taken for child support cannot afford shared parenting, and it is precisely > the lower economic classes – the working poor and lower-middle class – where > the benefits for children of that arrangement are most pronounced! > When you boil this down, reality is that these groups are essentially all > looking at this problem through adult eyes, not the eyes of kids. What’s > worse, they’re using children as their banner to wave around in front of > lawmakers for their own adult agenda. Why? Because it works – who wants to > vote against the image of a two-year-old smiling child (or take the risk of > your opponent trotting out that image in the next campaign)? > The problem with this, however, is that these groups no more represent the > best interests of children than does a Mako Shark circling for its next meal > (with apologizes to the Sharks of the world!) > The positions at this web site are the for the explicit purpose of resolving > problems that children face. This site is about, and I am about, destroying > the perverse incentives to have children out of wedlock, to destroy > families, and to place children at risk. This goal and purpose drives the > policy positions I take – not the other way around – which means that there > are no third rails – except those that place kids at risk. > Shared parenting and the end of our current child support system isn’t about > helping men or women. Its about recognizing the same priorities and rights > that a child has in a married family and getting rid of the incentives that > currently exist to be selfish for the explicit purpose and love of money – a > uniquely adult perspective that children neither understand or benefit from. > Its about getting rid of the concept and idea of taking children as human > shields in adult wars, regardless of who’s doing it or why. > And its about facing the fact that, as near as I can determine, there are no > current national organizations that are honestly dealing with these issues > from the viewpoint of the children. > Karl S. Denninger

Response:

Karl Denninger, who professes to "serve spammers for supper with ketchup", spammed his "Petition" message simultaneously to all the following newsgroups: alt.mens-rights,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,soc.men,soc.women,alt.support.d i vorce,alt.child-support,misc.kids,alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.sing l e-parents,alt.support.parents.with-custody Surely invited signers of Karl’s "new petition", especially "fathers rights people" ought to know what kind of person they are endorsing or permitting to speak for them. They should each, before signing, be made aware of the following verbatim quote from Karl on an email forum, several days ago: "I am NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN, and NEVER WILL BE interested in cozying up to "father’s rights" people. No way, no how, never. I have ZERO interest in seeing a system perpetuated that rapes CHILDREN of their parents, regardless of WHICH parent gets the broom handle. "Unlike YOU, I’d like to see ALL of the so-called "father’s rights" people – along with the "feminists" and the "mother’s rights" people – PUT OUT OF BUSINESS." Karl Denninger <k…@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in article <8j5dje$89…@pita.alt.net>… > SIGN THE PETITION and add your voice to the cacaphony resounding through > the offices of our Presidential Candidates!

-snip-

Response:

Filed under: Feminist

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