Activism Change

Can I sue after character assassination attempt?

Question:

These things you mention are all part of the feminist agenda to ruin the patriarchal system. They prefer an american indian type of society where the woman is the head of the household and where men move in and out of the squaw’s life like shadows. We invite you to join or form a local chapter of TALIBAN. We are forming a Southern California chapter. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t care about my "criminal" history!  I care about the inferences they make regarding

Response:

I don’t care about my "criminal" history!  I care about the inferences they make regarding drugging my stepchildren and possibly going "upstairs" to my stepdaughter’s room while everyone is sleeping! What about how they make it seem like I was proud because I "squeezed [my stepson's] arm real hard" when disciplining him?  I pulled him off of his sister after he had squished her hard enough against the car door to make her cry out in pain!  I called his father to tell him about the incident and he said that my stepson would have received far worse punishment had he been there! What about the comment about taking this to "Child Protective Services"?  On what grounds? No, I probably do not have enough to sue, but I just needed to vent. As you can see, I’m not attempting to hide anything.  I’m going to tuck my tail between my legs and run away as though I’ve done something wrong!  I’ll move on because I am a good dad to two beautiful 7-year old twin boys who need me to help them through another family wreckage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yuo can sue anyone for anything. For instance, I can sue YOU for being a blond and hurting my feelings, or for posting the message that I am replying to and wasting my time. The real question is, can you sue and win a lawsuit. The above examples are rather clear on that a suit based on the above claims has no chance of winning. What matters is whether the acts of the defendant breached some legal duty that he had towards you and whether you suffered damages as a result. Here, what your in-laws wrote does not appear to be actionable to me, in other words, I do not think that you could win any damages. Unless what they mentioned as facts — your criminal history — is false, their email does not constitute defamation. Your inlaws do seem to be rather domineering and appear as if they do want to run the life of their daughter. Whether they do it for a good cause or not is unclear. But their use of psychological balderdash and outright manipulation (I can point out specific instances of psychological manipulation there) raises some alarms. You also appear to be either very angry momentarily, or perhaps generally a very hot-headed person. You might want to react to any external stimuli in a calmer fashion. Re: borderline personality disorder, or any other "disorders", codependencies, whatever. They may have a million of causes, but ultimately I think that it is very hard to live with anyone who is seriously psychologically upset.  I actually like very m,any "abnormal" or "unusual" people, but would not want to be involved with them long term. igor * I received the following message from the parents of my wife after her * decision to move back to our home in an attempt to save our marriage. * It was copied to six of her relatives via email.   I am at a loss to * explain why this was necessary – especially since I had discussed this * with my wife and her parents before we were married!  I’ve never * threatened to hurt her or her children, nor have I ever tried to stop * her from leaving. * * Much of the information they’ve based this letter on was provided by * my wife who has been diagnosed as being manic-depressive/bipolar.  Her * parents have acknowledged (in writing) that her lack of honesty and * lying where reasons for the breakup of her first marriage. * * Will someone please read this and tell me if I have any legal grounds * for an Invasion of Privacy or libel suit? * * Additional information follows this text. * * TIA * Greiving Dad ‘O Twins * * <– begin — * * THE FOLLOWING IS OUR PLEA TO HELP "D", "H" AND "C". WE LOVE * YOU EACH ONE VERY DEARLY. WE ARE CONCERNED AS A WHOLE FAMILY AND WANT * YOU TO KNOW THAT WE LOVE YOU AND ARE HERE FOR YOU. * * "D": * * IN THE PAST YEAR, YOU HAVE HAD MANY OCCASSIONS THAT YOU FELT THE * NECESSITY TO LEAVE THE RELATIONSHIP WITH STEVE – WE ALWAYS TOLD YOU IT * WOULD HAVE TO BE YOUR DECISION AND WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT – BUT IT YOU * DECIDED TO STAY – WE WOULD REMAIN NEUTRAL AFFECTING THAT DECISION. BUT * THAT ASIDE NOW, YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW WE FEEL ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO * STAY. YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING: * * WOULD YOU MARRY THIS MAN: * * CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICE (CPS) WITH AT LEAST 3 ENTRIES (ONE * OR MORE * REFERRING TO SEXUAL CONTACT WITH A CHILD) * * FIRED FROM OR LAID-OFF 5 OUT OF LAST 8 JOBS * * 2 ARREST FOR BODILY INJURY * * 1 ARREST FOR DRUGS * * ADMITTED USER OF DRUGS * * PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "DATA SUGGEST THAT STEVEN * MAY BE OVERLY RIGID AND INFLEXIBLE IN HIS COGNITIVE STYLE. ONCE HE * DECIDES ON A COURSE OF ACTION HE IS UNLIKELY TO CHANGE HISMIND OR * CONSIDER ALATERNATIVES. WHILE SUCH A STRAATEGY MAY BE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE * IN BUSINESS OR PROFESSIONAL SITUATIONS, IT MAY BE SOMEWHAT OF A * LIABILIITY WHEN IT COMES TO PARENTING. HE DOES NOT HOLD WOMEN IN HIGH * REGARD. HIS RESPONSES INDICATE THAT HE VIEWS WOMEN AS UNTRUSTWORTHY * AND MANIPULATIVE, AND THAT HE MAY OVER-IDENTIFY WITH MASCULINE * FIGURES." * * PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "HE VOLUNTEERED THAT WOMEN * ARE OFTEN MANIPULATIVE IN THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEN AND OFTEN * PRECIPITATE DOMESTICE VOILENCE. WOMEN KNOW WHAT TO DO TO GET MEN TO * HIT THEM. THEY SAY THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO HIT A WOMAN. NOT TRUE. * THEY BREAK YOUR PROPERTY AND VERBALLY PROVOKE YOU TO THE POINT WHERE * YOU HIT THEM. THEN THEY PLAY THE VICTIM." * * PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "HIS DEMEANOR IS  DOMINEERING AND * SOMEWHAT INTIMIDDATING, A PRESENTATION THAT IS AIMED AT EXPRESSING HIS * NEED FOR CONTROL OVER PEOPLE AND SITUATIONS. DATA INDICATE THAT STEVEN * TENDS TO RELY UPON PSYCHOLOGICAL DEFENSE MECHANISMS SUCH AS * INTELLECTUALIZATION AND RATIONALIZATION AS A MEANS OF MANAGING STRESS * AND CONFLICT. AS IN HIS THINKING, STEVEN’S EMOTIONS APPEAR TO BE * RIGIDLY CONTROLLED AND UNSPONTANEOUS." * * PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "STEVEN’S RESPONSES ON THE PARENTING * MEASURES INDICATED THAT HE IS A STRICT DISCIPLINARIAN WHO IDENTIFIES * HIS MASCULINE AUTHORITY AS A PRIMARY PARENTAL STRENGTH. WHILE HE * EMPHASIZES THE IMPORTANCE OF COMMUNICATION, DATA INDICATED THAT HEMAY * NEED TO LISTEN TO HIS CHILDREN MORE RATHER THAN RELY UPON WHAT HE * BELIEVES THE PROBLEM TO BE. HIS INTERACTIONS WITH THE CHILDREN * INDICATE THAT HE OFTEN RELATES TO THEM AS LITTLE ADULTS RATHER THAN AS * CHILDREN WITH SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENTAL NEEDS. HE APPEARS TO PLACE MORE * OF A PRIORITY ON DISCIPLINE RATHER THAN THE EMOTIONAL NEEDS OF * CHILDREN, AND THEREFORE MAY SACRIFICE ONE IN FAVOR OF THE OTHER." * * PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "THAT HIS FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS WERE * MARKED BY FREQUENT ARGUMENTS, AND THAT THERE WAS PHYSICAL VIOLENCE * BETWEEN HIS PARENTS." * * AS WE READ YOUR E-MAIL , TWO THINGS COME IMMEDIATELY TO MY MIND. IT * APPEARS AS IF YOU HOLD ME/US IN SOME WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR * CONTINUED MARITAL PROBLEMS IF I READ WHAT" DON’T CALL ME" MEANS * CORRECTLY AND SECONDLY YOU (AND STEVE AND MICHAEL) CONTINUE TO * DISREGARD YOUR CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH AND WELFARE BY ALWAYS PUTTING * YOURSELVES FIRST. YOUR LACK OF CONSIDERATION LAST SUNDAY TO LET US * KNOW YOU HAD CHANGED YOUR MIND WAS NOT NECESSARY. * * IT MUST BE DIFFICULT TO FACE YOURSELF AFTER ONCE AGAIN GETTING THE * KID’S HOPE UP OF A NORMAL FAMILY LIFE ONLY TO ONCE AGAIN PLACE THEIR * WELFARE SECOND AND PUTTING THEM BACK INTO AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY * CANNOT THRIVE MUCH LESS HAVE A REMOTELY NORMAL "FAMILY" LIFE. HOW * BROKEN HEARTED CAN THEY GET? – PROBABLY NOT MUCH MORE. HOW SUPPRISED * ARE YOU GOING TO BE WHEN THEY WANT TO GO TO LIVE WITH MICHAEL,( IN * THREE YEARS) WHICH WILL BE EXACTLY WHAT STEVE WANTS. WORSE YET, IF NOT * TO MICHAEL, THEN TO DRUGS OR TO THE STREETS OR TO JAIL. THIS IS WHAT * YOU ARE SETTING THEM UP FOR OR IS IT WHAT STEVE IS SETTING THEM UP * FOR? YOU DO UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR CHILDREN HAVE A STATISTICAL * PROBABILITY OF TURNING TO DRUGS AT 50% GREATER THAN THAT OF THE * GENERAL POPULATION. And do you fully understand why? * * AS A CO-DEPENDENT PERSON, YOUR INABILITY TO SEVER DISRUPTIVE AND * DANGEROUS RELATIONSHIPS HAS AGAIN PROVEN TO BE AN OBSTACLE YOU COULD * NOT OVERCOME STEVE TALKED YOU OUT OF IT – AGAIN . AS YOU TOLD ME, HE * CONTINUES TO SAY ITS ALL YOUR FAULT. AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE THIS, THIS * RELATIONSHIP IS NOT GOING TO IMPROVE. SADLY I HAVE WATCHED THE * ESCALATION OF YOUR FIGHTING, ITS STATICALLY ONLY A MATTER OF TIME * BEFORE HE REALLY HURTS YOU OR ONE OF THE KIDS OR MAYBE DOES SOMETHING * WORSE.(OR MAYBE ALREADY HAS AND I JUST DONT KNOW ABOUT IT -YET) HE IS * ON A CLASSIC PATH TO PHYSICAL ABUSE, HAVING ALREADY PASSED VERBAL * ABUSE AND PHYSICAL CONTACT DURING HEATED ARGUMENTS, THERE IS NOT MUCH * FURTHER TO GO. A SIMILAR PATH WAS FOLLOWED IN STEVE’S FIRST MARRIAGE. * MAYBE YOU SHOULD TALK TO KAREN. * * WHY DO YOU THINK HE HASN’T GONE TO COUNSELING BEFORE? HE DIDN’T GO TO * SAVE HIS FIRST MARRIAGE, EITHER. COULD IT BE THAT AS YOU TOLD ME – HE * SAYS HE DOESN’T NEED HELP – EVERY ONE ELSE DOES. HAVE YOU TWO BEEN * YET? WHY NOT? WE ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS. WHEN FORCED TO GO * TO COUNSELING HOW MUCH GOOD DO YOU THINK IT DOES? WHY ONLY NOW , * BECAUSE IT SAYS WHAT YOU NEEDED TO HEAR TO BE CONTROLLED BACK INTO * YOUR CURRENT SITUATION. DOESNT THAT SEEM CONTRARY TO ALL YOU KNOW AND * HAVE BEEN TAUGHT? WHEN YOU FIRST MET HIM YOU TOLD ME HE REMINDED YOU A * LOT OF ME.  IT IS SAD TO ME THAT YOU EVER THOUGHT HE WAS A LOT LIKE * ME. IF THIS WAS EVER TRUE, LOOK AT THE CHANGE IN HIM. I SEE NO * SIMILARITIES BETWEEN US AND NOW FIND THAT A COMPLETELY REPULSIVE * THOUGHT. * * HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS IS THE PERSON YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO USE * AS A ROLE MODEL. HOW FAR WILL "H" BE ABLE TO GO WHEN HE TURNS OUT TO *

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Response:

<pardon the snips – just cleaning up so the conversation doesn’t get too unwieldy I don’t know anything about my current wife’s psych evals other than what she’s shared with me.

Actually, I was inquiring about the psych eval that focused on YOU. How long and involved was it? Over what length of time was your personality observed? She moved back in on August 28th.  She was/is 33 years old.

So she has had one manic episode, coupled with a spotty history that features depression, upon which her diagnosis has been made. Can’t fault the doctor, it’s a reasonable direction to take. Be aware, however, that the doctor uses such labels more for insurance purposes (to cover her treatment). IOW, at this point, he is making an educated guess– but there is a good chance he could prove his guess wrong. The only definitive test to prove bipolar is whether or not treatment works. Treatment does NOT work on those who are NOT bipolar. Lithium is the first choice, and it is 60% effective. That means, if lithium works, then the doctor’s diagnosis was right. If it doesn’t, she still has numerous treatment options to try — if one works, bingo, she’s bipolar. The farther she goes not finding successful treatment, given all the options she has today, the more and more likely she’s been misdiagnosed. While I’m not a doctor, all I can tell you is that she exhibited a "Jekyl & Hyde" personality!  I walked on eggshells constantly not knowing what would trigger an argument!

That can fit the profile of a number of disorders. In and of itself, it does not necessarily indicate bipolar. How were her sleeping habits? Did she talk non-stop? Did she have allusions of grandeur? What were her spending habits like? The answers might give more clues. She was taking Prozac, although I’ve since heard some rather disturbing information about a segment of the population who experience very negative side effects from this and other "SSRI-class" drugs.  (See http://www.drugawareness.org for more

information.) Yes, I’m all too familiar with the side effects of Prozac. It is well known that Prozac given to a person with bipolar tendencies, will develop the condition. This is what happened to me. But one manic episode, no matter what triggered it, does *NOT* make you bipolar (maybe for the insurance companies.) There has to be a pattern of repeated episodes. Hence, the reason they’re rethinking my own diagnosis. Think of it this way: many people have depression following a major life event, such as a death or divorce. This one event, in itself, does not make them "clinically depressed." They may need a 6-9 month course of antidepressants to get them through the one episode, but they do not need to be on meds the rest of their lives in order to proactively prevent further episodes. The same can be said for manic episodes. Many people, in reaction to a major life event, can exhibit manic-like symptoms for an extended period of time, but do not go on to develop a clinical course. Yes, she has had a history of depression.  She never mentioned the word "manic" or "bipolar."

Here’s were it gets tricky. 80% of bipolars initially present as having Major Depression (I was one of the other 20%). They may have minor manic peaks, but these seem like such a relief from constant unrelenting depression, they don’t take much notice of them. As the disease goes on, eventually the manic episodes get more pronounced, and they may be dx’d as bipolar. Or, an AD (Prozac in particular) may induce mania in a susceptible person. Certain OTC herbal remedies, and steroids, can also bring about such a condition, if the tendency is there. You can, btw, have the tendency, but never receive the stress (chemical, psychological, etc.) to trigger it. I’ll admit, that it looks like I intentionally meant to look through her things.  However, these papers were looseleaf and were not bound. Nor were they marked "private."  They fell on the floor after the box dropped.  I couldn’t stop reading, however, after I saw what they contained!  I’d always told her that she knew a lot more about me than I knew about her.  Boy, was I right!

Well, your action in this instance may be understandable. I’m curious: Did she ever accuse you of invading her privacy? Perhaps going in her purse without asking? Things like that? Maybe to you it wasn’t a big deal, but to her it was an issue? "Controlling" , "domineering", "manipulative",

"judgemental" – all of words that mean different things to different people!  Why is it that, if you have a position that you are confident with, that other label you with these words?  

Trust me, I understand what you mean, although I come from a different angle. <g  You have a valid issue. I’ve heard my stbx make similar comments. From my angle, what I think is important is how your wife perceives you. Doesn’t matter your intention — if she perceives your intentions wrong, then there is something wrong with the dynamics of your relationship. And that goes both ways. Note, I do not say SHE is wrong or YOU are wrong, just the particular combination of the two of you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I would never ask someone to agree with me if, in fact, they really didn’t!  I don’t require that everyone believe as I do.  But if others ask me to give their position serious consideration, am I not due the same?  And if we are unable to agree, then why does it have to mean "you don’t love me?" or "its always my fault, isn’t it?" or "you think you know everything!"?  I couldn’t think of anything else to say other than, "lets ask a neutral, third-party professional to hear us out."  I was then met with, "you’ll probably leave if you don’t like what you hear!" (Thinking for me again!)  When I asked her what she’d do if the therapist said that I really wasn’t being too unreasonable, she said,

"I’d leave!" I’m not the resident expert, but some of this does sound like what I’ve heard about borderline personality. It’s that push-pull thing: I hate you — I don’t want you to leave me. She didn’t exhibit this behavior early in our relationship!

Funny how that works, isn’t it? <g Again, "like her" was not what she presented!  I was looking for a mature, independent woman who either had or had experience with children because my twin boys are a handful!  No, I wasn’t looking for a mom for them – I just wanted to know that whomever I eventually decided to share the rest of my life with could withstand the mental and physical beating that children can inflict!

Not following you here — can you expand on this? I don’t know anything of substance about your relationship with your "stbx", but, having been drawn into this sad snowball, I wouldn’t think of judging your "stbx" without giving him/her the courtesy of hearing their side of the story!  

He and I have been working on this over the last two and a half years, through couples counseling, independent therapy, our court-appointed GAL, the psych evaluator, etc. I have heard his story exhaustively, and I am listening. I do actually see his side to it. Both of us have some heavy defects that need addressing — for me it’s my bipolar, for him, it’s what the experts have labeled "emotional boundary" issues. We both recognize we have these issues to work on. He acknowledges now that his emotional boundary issues are not the best situation for a person with bipolar tendencies. I acknowledge that a person with bipolar tendencies is not the best situation for a someone with emotional boundary issues. From that acknowldgement, we’re moving on. Have you ever considered that it was *you* who may have been unconsciously creating

circumstances in your marriage for which you could then stand in judgement of?  

Yes. Quite exhaustively. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kick the sleeping dog when no one’s looking – the dog is startled. Kick the sleeping dog when no one’s looking – the dog snarles ("Better watch that dog!", you tell others.). Kick the sleeping dog when no one’s looking – the dog bites you ("I TOLD you that was a BAD DOG!  Someone get a shotgun!"). All in an effort to make oneself look good – at the non- needy ones’ expense!  Please don’t respond with the usual, "See there, I KNEW it!" line!  There was NEVER any physical abuse – just a self- admitted "attention addict" who went out of her way to get it –

good or bad! Our issues were different, and never involved anything that even came close to physical abuse, so I will refrain from commenting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -No, I can’t blame her parents for being concerned, especially because they had to walk into a hospital room when she was 17 years old, right after they had found her following a severe beating with a baseball bat at the hands of her 21-year old, local football hero boyfriend! (This after her father had held a gun to his head earlier that month threatening to kill him if ever came around again!) However, I’d suggested, before she actually moved back into our home, that she keep her apartment and keep the "breathing room" she wanted! I would attend any counseling she wanted with the therapist of her choice!  I later found out that she had told her parents that I’d said I wouldn’t go! I appreciate your advice.  However, the ugliness of her parents’ letter was totally unnecessary!  Drugging my stepson, pornographic tendencies, implying that I’d molest my stepdaughter!!!   What did they have to lose by hearing me out?  

Vent here, by all means. Get it out of your system, you need to do that. But then focus your energies where you can make the most difference. And that’s not going to be her parents. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Maybe they wouldn’t like to have heard that I’d stopped talking to them 3 months earlier,

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Response:

Yuo can sue anyone for anything. For instance, I can sue YOU for being a blond and hurting my feelings, or for posting the message that I am replying to and wasting my time.

Hoo boy would you have a whole new set of troubles if you try to file suit "for anything" here in New York State.  It’s called "abuse of process" and carries some serious penalties.  In order to sue, you must be "standing to sue" — that is, you have to meet some criteria regarding damages, statutes, etc.  So: no, no, no, the issue is NOT simply whether or not you can collect in or out of court.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Jen! I’m sorry if it appears that I’m attempting to bash my wife.  Despite all of the problems we’ve had, I still love her, but realize now (albeit too late) that she needs help – as do I. The psych eval her used to blast me was conducted in June of 1996 after my first wife had served me for the third time in 2 years and had me kicked out of my home on my birthday!  Hopefully, its not hard to imagine that I may have been a little "less than generous" towards women at that time! I am very familiar with what stress can do to otherwise "normal" people. How long did the psych eval take?  

I don’t know anything about my current wife’s psych evals other than what she’s shared with me. She was diagnosed bipolar by the same psychiatrist she’s been seeing for the past 3 years since her drug rehab the day after she and her kids moved back into our home.   So, how long ago was that, and at what age was she?

She moved back in on August 28th.  She was/is 33 years old. What were her presenting symptoms that led to the diagnosis…

While I’m not a doctor, all I can tell you is that she exhibited a "Jekyl & Hyde" personality!  I walked on eggshells constantly not knowing what would trigger an argument! , and is she on meds now?  Are they making a difference?

She was taking Prozac, although I’ve since heard some rather disturbing information about a segment of the population who experience very negative side effects from this and other "SSRI-class" drugs.  (See http://www.drugawareness.org for more information.) Has she had a history of depression, treated or untreated?    

Yes, she has had a history of depression.  She never mentioned the word "manic" or "bipolar." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Her son and daughter both told me that she had been crying the entire time the movers were moving her into their apartment.  She herself admitted that she "didn’t know why she was acting this way" and was "so ashamed at what she had  done." Shame, particularly irrational shame, is a big feature of depression, as well as "black" mania. There are interesting theories for this. I could clearly see that something was wrong.  As I said in my notes, I had suspected this several months earlier, but only had it thrown back in my face as trying to make her look crazy "just like my first wife!" I’ve not gone into any detail about the journal I found as I was cleaning out her closet.   Yes, my stbx often found my journals while cleaning my closet. I always wondered why he read them, when they were clearly marked "private."

I’ll admit, that it looks like I intentionally meant to look through her things.  However, these papers were looseleaf and were not bound. Nor were they marked "private."  They fell on the floor after the box dropped.  I couldn’t stop reading, however, after I saw what they contained!  I’d always told her that she knew a lot more about me than I knew about her.  Boy, was I right! It contained writing and correspondence with her former boyfriend and her parents covering the 16 months immediately preceeding our relationship.  It also covered the period at the height of her cocaine addiction.  While I’m not a psychiatrist, I believe that any reasonable person reading this material would conclude that this is a person with a very low self-esteem.   There are interesting theories out now about bipolar disorder that say it takes a certain type of relationship dynamic, in addition to a biological predisposition, to trigger the disorder. Hallmark of this dynamic is a person with certain qualities, including low self-esteem, coupled with a person who is domineering, controlling, manipulative, and judgemental. Would you say that characterizes her relationships?

"Controlling" , "domineering", "manipulative", "judgemental" – all of words that mean different things to different people!  Why is it that, if you have a position that you are confident with, that other label you with these words?  I would never ask someone to agree with me if, in fact, they really didn’t!  I don’t require that everyone believe as I do.  But if others ask me to give their position serious consideration, am I not due the same?  And if we are unable to agree, then why does it have to mean "you don’t love me?" or "its always my fault, isn’t it?" or "you think you know everything!"?  I couldn’t think of anything else to say other than, "lets ask a neutral, third-party professional to hear us out."  I was then met with, "you’ll probably leave if you don’t like what you hear!"  (Thinking for me again!)  When I asked her what she’d do if the therapist said that I really wasn’t being too unreasonable, she said, "I’d leave!" Her writings reveal the wild mood swings, paranoia and jealousy that I experienced first hand in our relationship!  It was as if I was simply a continuation of her relationship with her former boyfriend! So now maybe the question you should ask yourself is why you were drawn to her particular personality?

She didn’t exhibit this behavior early in our relationship! What is it about you that wanted a relationship with someone like her?

Again, "like her" was not what she presented!  I was looking for a mature, independent woman who either had or had experience with children because my twin boys are a handful!  No, I wasn’t looking for a mom for them – I just wanted to know that whomever I eventually decided to share the rest of my life with could withstand the mental and physical beating that children can inflict! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The "pathological liar" label came from the marriage counselor she and her ex-husband saw after they moved out their home town.  Her ex told me this, not to insult her, but as a matter of fact.   If so, then she has *more* or *other* than bipolar. Which is not all that uncommon. Many psychiatrists are not all that up on bipolar and misdiagnose frequently. But there are clear-cut hallmarks for bipolar. Check out Dr. Ivan Goldberg’s web site (find it from any search engine) for a good list of symtpoms if you’re curious. The site also differentiates bipolar from the numerous other disorders. And, there is a lot of info targeted at loved ones of bipolars. If you haven’t figured it out by now, I was dx’d bipolar at the time of my marital difficulties, but my shrink has since questioned his diagnosis; have not had a relapse since leaving my stbx. In all my time following alt.support.manic.depression, I’ve only once or twice encountered true pathological liars. (they were hard to miss! . In both cases, it turned out one was MPD, the other borderline personality.  

I don’t know anything of substance about your relationship with your "stbx", but, having been drawn into this sad snowball, I wouldn’t think of judging your "stbx" without giving him/her the courtesy of hearing their side of the story!  Have you ever considered that it was *you* who may have been unconsciously creating circumstances in your marriage for which you could then stand in judgement of?  You know: Kick the sleeping dog when no one’s looking – the dog is startled. Kick the sleeping dog when no one’s looking – the dog snarles ("Better watch that dog!", you tell others.). Kick the sleeping dog when no one’s looking – the dog bites you ("I TOLD you that was a BAD DOG!  Someone get a shotgun!"). All in an effort to make oneself look good – at the non-needy ones’ expense!  Please don’t respond with the usual, "See there, I KNEW it!" line!  There was NEVER any physical abuse – just a self-admitted "attention addict" who went out of her way to get it – good or bad! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And after reading the letter that her father faxed to her one month before she began dating me, it was clear that even he saw that she had "a problem telling the truth" and that it was "a major factor in the failure of her first marriage." BTW, I’ve had a chance to speak with both her ex-husband and her former boyfriend – both of whom had been represented to her parents as being "violent" and "verbally and physically abusive."  They paint a completely different picture which has, again, been confirmed in her own writing in her own words in her journal! I’m not asking for her to come back at this point.  The atmosphere has been completely poisoned.  My only point to her was that there was nothing in my psych profile that we hadn’t discussed at length.  In fact, I volunteered to let her review it at any time and left sitting out on my office desk!   I’m just crushed at the way her parents stepped in and turned this into such an ugly situation!   I agree with Kathy on this one. Can’t blame a parent for being concerned for their child. Can’t blame them if it turns out their judgement was swayed by a pathological liar. Better to let this one slide with empathy and forgiveness.

No, I can’t blame her parents for being concerned, especially because they had to walk into a hospital room when she was 17 years old, right after they had found her following a severe beating with a baseball bat at the hands of her 21-year old, local football hero boyfriend! (This after her father had held a gun to his head earlier that month threatening to kill him if ever came around again!) However, I’d suggested, before she actually moved back into our home, that she keep her apartment and keep the "breathing room" she wanted! I would attend any counseling she wanted with the therapist of her choice!  I later found out that she had told her parents that I’d said I wouldn’t go! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It’s as though they’ve been told that I threatened to hurt her and her kids! I guess

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Response:

Chilling indeed. Have no idea about your legal question, but I guess it hinges on whether or not any of it is true. Are you saying your wife wrote that psych eval they quoted from, conjured it up from her bipolar mind? I’m curious: when was she diagnosed bipolar, at what age? Before or after she married you? Bipolars, by the way, are not known for being pathological liars. They may stretch the truth, or hide the truth, or tell white lies, just like the rest of us, but they don’t lie pathologically. It is not a symptom of this syndrome. jen

Response:

Hello, Jen! I’m sorry if it appears that I’m attempting to bash my wife.  Despite all of the problems we’ve had, I still love her, but realize now (albeit too late) that she needs help – as do I. The psych eval her used to blast me was conducted in June of 1996 after my first wife had served me for the third time in 2 years and had me kicked out of my home on my birthday!  Hopefully, its not hard to imagine that I may have been a little "less than generous" towards women at that time! She was diagnosed bipolar by the same psychiatrist she’s been seeing for the past 3 years since her drug rehab the day after she and her kids moved back into our home.  Her son and daughter both told me that she had been crying the entire time the movers were moving her into their apartment.  She herself admitted that she "didn’t know why she was acting this way" and was "so ashamed at what she had  done." I could clearly see that something was wrong.  As I said in my notes, I had suspected this several months earlier, but only had it thrown back in my face as trying to make her look crazy "just like my first wife!" I’ve not gone into any detail about the journal I found as I was cleaning out her closet.  It contained writing and correspondence with her former boyfriend and her parents covering the 16 months immediately preceeding our relationship.  It also covered the period at the height of her cocaine addiction.  While I’m not a psychiatrist, I believe that any reasonable person reading this material would conclude that this is a person with a very low self-esteem.  Her writings reveal the wild mood swings, paranoia and jealousy that I experienced first hand in our relationship!  It was as if I was simply a continuation of her relationship with her former boyfriend! The "pathological liar" label came from the marriage counselor she and her ex-husband saw after they moved out their home town.  Her ex told me this, not to insult her, but as a matter of fact.  And after reading the letter that her father faxed to her one month before she began dating me, it was clear that even he saw that she had "a problem telling the truth" and that it was "a major factor in the failure of her first marriage." BTW, I’ve had a chance to speak with both her ex-husband and her former boyfriend – both of whom had been represented to her parents as being "violent" and "verbally and physically abusive."  They paint a completely different picture which has, again, been confirmed in her own writing in her own words in her journal! I’m not asking for her to come back at this point.  The atmosphere has been completely poisoned.  My only point to her was that there was nothing in my psych profile that we hadn’t discussed at length.  In fact, I volunteered to let her review it at any time and left sitting out on my office desk!  I’m just crushed at the way her parents stepped in and turned this into such an ugly situation!  It’s as though they’ve been told that I threatened to hurt her and her kids! I guess I’m still trying to deal with the unfairness of this by "forcing" others to give me an opportunity to speak.  But it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.  I’m just sorry that we weren’t given the chance to work it out among ourselves.  I thought I had married and adult – not a child who is still under the control of her parents. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chilling indeed. Have no idea about your legal question, but I guess it hinges on whether or not any of it is true. Are you saying your wife wrote that psych eval they quoted from, conjured it up from her bipolar mind? I’m curious: when was she diagnosed bipolar, at what age? Before or after she married you? Bipolars, by the way, are not known for being pathological liars. They may stretch the truth, or hide the truth, or tell white lies, just like the rest of us, but they don’t lie pathologically. It is not a symptom of this syndrome. jen

Response:

Hello, Jen! I’m sorry if it appears that I’m attempting to bash my wife.  Despite all of the problems we’ve had, I still love her, but realize now (albeit too late) that she needs help – as do I. The psych eval her used to blast me was conducted in June of 1996 after my first wife had served me for the third time in 2 years and had me kicked out of my home on my birthday!  Hopefully, its not hard to imagine that I may have been a little "less than generous" towards women at that time!

I am very familiar with what stress can do to otherwise "normal" people. How long did the psych eval take?   She was diagnosed bipolar by the same psychiatrist she’s been seeing for the past 3 years since her drug rehab the day after she and her kids moved back into our home.  

So, how long ago was that, and at what age was she? What were her presenting symptoms that led to the diagnosis, and is she on meds now? Are they making a difference? Has she had a history of depression, treated or untreated?     Her son and daughter both told me that she had been crying the entire time the movers were moving her into their apartment.  She herself admitted that she "didn’t know why she was acting this way" and was "so ashamed at what she had  done."

Shame, particularly irrational shame, is a big feature of depression, as well as "black" mania. There are interesting theories for this. I could clearly see that something was wrong.  As I said in my notes, I had suspected this several months earlier, but only had it thrown back in my face as trying to make her look crazy "just like my first wife!" I’ve not gone into any detail about the journal I found as I was cleaning out her closet.  

Yes, my stbx often found my journals while cleaning my closet. I always wondered why he read them, when they were clearly marked "private." It contained writing and correspondence with her former boyfriend and her parents covering the 16 months immediately preceeding our relationship.  It also covered the period at the height of her cocaine addiction.  While I’m not a psychiatrist, I believe that any reasonable person reading this material would conclude that this is a person with a very low self-esteem.  

There are interesting theories out now about bipolar disorder that say it takes a certain type of relationship dynamic, in addition to a biological predisposition, to trigger the disorder. Hallmark of this dynamic is a person with certain qualities, including low self-esteem, coupled with a person who is domineering, controlling, manipulative, and judgemental. Would you say that characterizes her relationships? Her writings reveal the wild mood swings, paranoia and jealousy that I experienced first hand in our relationship!  It was as if I was simply a continuation of her relationship with her former boyfriend!

So now maybe the question you should ask yourself is why you were drawn to her particular personality? What is it about you that wanted a relationship with someone like her? The "pathological liar" label came from the marriage counselor she and her ex-husband saw after they moved out their home town.  Her ex told me this, not to insult her, but as a matter of fact.  

If so, then she has *more* or *other* than bipolar. Which is not all that uncommon. Many psychiatrists are not all that up on bipolar and misdiagnose frequently. But there are clear-cut hallmarks for bipolar. Check out Dr. Ivan Goldberg’s web site (find it from any search engine) for a good list of symtpoms if you’re curious. The site also differentiates bipolar from the numerous other disorders. And, there is a lot of info targeted at loved ones of bipolars. If you haven’t figured it out by now, I was dx’d bipolar at the time of my marital difficulties, but my shrink has since questioned his diagnosis; have not had a relapse since leaving my stbx. In all my time following alt.support.manic.depression, I’ve only once or twice encountered true pathological liars. (they were hard to miss! . In both cases, it turned out one was MPD, the other borderline personality.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And after reading the letter that her father faxed to her one month before she began dating me, it was clear that even he saw that she had "a problem telling the truth" and that it was "a major factor in the failure of her first marriage." BTW, I’ve had a chance to speak with both her ex-husband and her former boyfriend – both of whom had been represented to her parents as being "violent" and "verbally and physically abusive."  They paint a completely different picture which has, again, been confirmed in her own writing in her own words in her journal! I’m not asking for her to come back at this point.  The atmosphere has been completely poisoned.  My only point to her was that there was nothing in my psych profile that we hadn’t discussed at length.  In fact, I volunteered to let her review it at any time and left sitting out on my office desk!   I’m just crushed at the way her parents stepped in and turned this into such an ugly situation!  

I agree with Kathy on this one. Can’t blame a parent for being concerned for their child. Can’t blame them if it turns out their judgement was swayed by a pathological liar. Better to let this one slide with empathy and forgiveness. It’s as though they’ve been told that I threatened to hurt her and her kids! I guess I’m still trying to deal with the unfairness of this by "forcing" others to give me an opportunity to speak.  But it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.  I’m just sorry that we weren’t given the chance to work it out among ourselves.  I thought I had married and adult – not a child who is still under the control of her parents.

Give her space — lots of it. Whether you’ve given up on a future or not, if you care about her, you’ll give her some breathing room to either pull herself together, or reach rock bottom. Which, if she is as bad as you say, would be the best thing for her, as heart-wrenching as it is to watch. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chilling indeed. Have no idea about your legal question, but I guess it hinges on whether or not any of it is true. Are you saying your wife wrote that psych eval they quoted from, conjured it up from her bipolar mind? I’m curious: when was she diagnosed bipolar, at what age? Before or after she married you? Bipolars, by the way, are not known for being pathological liars. They may stretch the truth, or hide the truth, or tell white lies, just like the rest of us, but they don’t lie pathologically. It is not a symptom of this syndrome. jen

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Boy, you sure do have your hands full here! Most of all, don’t bother to sue your in-laws.  You are very hurt (and rightly so), and suing them will not benefit you in any tangible way. Unfortunately, there is no material loss, so its unclear what you would get in return. The real issue seems to be your wife’s bi-polar condition.  As someone who was very close to someone with that illlness….I know how insidious it can be.  So, her abilitiy to make rational decisions may be inpaired at times.  However, her parents are also a huge  issue.  If they know she has this condition, why are they dishing out bad advice via email? Are they in denial about her condition?   As I learned through my own near divorce/reconciliation is that the only stand parents should be taking is to encourage keeping the family together by encouraging therapy.  Your in-laws are too deep in your issues and they are waving the emotionally charged wand around with no conflict resolution in sight.  I doesn’t appear that they are wound too tight either.   I don’t mean to giggle here…its not funny, but in slandering you they exposed their own irrational lunacy.  They look like idiots. Furthermore, who would take those kind of issues and send it in an email cc:’d to family members like an interoffice memo.  That’s bizarre. I can only say, I hope you and your wife will find your way into joint counseling…whether or not you reconcile.  No matter the outcome, you’d be in a much better place with some resolution. Good luck!    

Response:

I agree with the other posters who have counseled not to sue–I don’t see what could be gained by that.  However, the common theme seems to be to trash the in-laws as cretins.  While the issue of sending copies of the email to various relatives is certainly questionable, from their perspective it may seem like the only way to get their daughter out of what they perceive to be (yet another) disasterous situation.  Which brings us to what I perceive to be the heart of the problem–your wife has obviously been telling only one side of the story to her parents up to this point, being very selective in the information she passes on to them. They have leapt (in my mind understandably) to the wrong conclusion.  If your wife is serious about making a go at reconcilliation, I think it is fair to expect that she make some serious effort toward cleaning up the mess that her actions have put into motion.                      |Kathy Litherland | People make their own history, but No hacemos el amor;|Dept. of Anthro  | they do not make it under El nos hace        |U. of Illinois   | circumstances of their own choosing

Response:

I received the following message from the parents of my wife after her decision to move back to our home in an attempt to save our marriage. It was copied to six of her relatives via email.   I am at a loss to explain why this was necessary – especially since I had discussed this with my wife and her parents before we were married!  I’ve never threatened to hurt her or her children, nor have I ever tried to stop her from leaving. Much of the information they’ve based this letter on was provided by my wife who has been diagnosed as being manic-depressive/bipolar.  Her parents have acknowledged (in writing) that her lack of honesty and lying where reasons for the breakup of her first marriage. Will someone please read this and tell me if I have any legal grounds for an Invasion of Privacy or libel suit? Additional information follows this text. TIA Greiving Dad ‘O Twins <– begin — THE FOLLOWING IS OUR PLEA TO HELP "D", "H" AND "C". WE LOVE YOU EACH ONE VERY DEARLY. WE ARE CONCERNED AS A WHOLE FAMILY AND WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT WE LOVE YOU AND ARE HERE FOR YOU. "D": IN THE PAST YEAR, YOU HAVE HAD MANY OCCASSIONS THAT YOU FELT THE NECESSITY TO LEAVE THE RELATIONSHIP WITH STEVE – WE ALWAYS TOLD YOU IT WOULD HAVE TO BE YOUR DECISION AND WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT – BUT IT YOU DECIDED TO STAY – WE WOULD REMAIN NEUTRAL AFFECTING THAT DECISION. BUT THAT ASIDE NOW, YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW WE FEEL ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO STAY. YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING: WOULD YOU MARRY THIS MAN: CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICE (CPS) WITH AT LEAST 3 ENTRIES (ONE OR MORE REFERRING TO SEXUAL CONTACT WITH A CHILD) FIRED FROM OR LAID-OFF 5 OUT OF LAST 8 JOBS 2 ARREST FOR BODILY INJURY 1 ARREST FOR DRUGS ADMITTED USER OF DRUGS PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "DATA SUGGEST THAT STEVEN MAY BE OVERLY RIGID AND INFLEXIBLE IN HIS COGNITIVE STYLE. ONCE HE DECIDES ON A COURSE OF ACTION HE IS UNLIKELY TO CHANGE HISMIND OR CONSIDER ALATERNATIVES. WHILE SUCH A STRAATEGY MAY BE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE IN BUSINESS OR PROFESSIONAL SITUATIONS, IT MAY BE SOMEWHAT OF A LIABILIITY WHEN IT COMES TO PARENTING. HE DOES NOT HOLD WOMEN IN HIGH REGARD. HIS RESPONSES INDICATE THAT HE VIEWS WOMEN AS UNTRUSTWORTHY AND MANIPULATIVE, AND THAT HE MAY OVER-IDENTIFY WITH MASCULINE FIGURES." PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "HE VOLUNTEERED THAT WOMEN ARE OFTEN MANIPULATIVE IN THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEN AND OFTEN PRECIPITATE DOMESTICE VOILENCE. WOMEN KNOW WHAT TO DO TO GET MEN TO HIT THEM. THEY SAY THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO HIT A WOMAN. NOT TRUE. THEY BREAK YOUR PROPERTY AND VERBALLY PROVOKE YOU TO THE POINT WHERE YOU HIT THEM. THEN THEY PLAY THE VICTIM." PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "HIS DEMEANOR IS  DOMINEERING AND SOMEWHAT INTIMIDDATING, A PRESENTATION THAT IS AIMED AT EXPRESSING HIS NEED FOR CONTROL OVER PEOPLE AND SITUATIONS. DATA INDICATE THAT STEVEN TENDS TO RELY UPON PSYCHOLOGICAL DEFENSE MECHANISMS SUCH AS INTELLECTUALIZATION AND RATIONALIZATION AS A MEANS OF MANAGING STRESS AND CONFLICT. AS IN HIS THINKING, STEVEN’S EMOTIONS APPEAR TO BE RIGIDLY CONTROLLED AND UNSPONTANEOUS." PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "STEVEN’S RESPONSES ON THE PARENTING MEASURES INDICATED THAT HE IS A STRICT DISCIPLINARIAN WHO IDENTIFIES HIS MASCULINE AUTHORITY AS A PRIMARY PARENTAL STRENGTH. WHILE HE EMPHASIZES THE IMPORTANCE OF COMMUNICATION, DATA INDICATED THAT HEMAY NEED TO LISTEN TO HIS CHILDREN MORE RATHER THAN RELY UPON WHAT HE BELIEVES THE PROBLEM TO BE. HIS INTERACTIONS WITH THE CHILDREN INDICATE THAT HE OFTEN RELATES TO THEM AS LITTLE ADULTS RATHER THAN AS CHILDREN WITH SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENTAL NEEDS. HE APPEARS TO PLACE MORE OF A PRIORITY ON DISCIPLINE RATHER THAN THE EMOTIONAL NEEDS OF CHILDREN, AND THEREFORE MAY SACRIFICE ONE IN FAVOR OF THE OTHER." PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION STATES "THAT HIS FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS WERE MARKED BY FREQUENT ARGUMENTS, AND THAT THERE WAS PHYSICAL VIOLENCE BETWEEN HIS PARENTS." AS WE READ YOUR E-MAIL , TWO THINGS COME IMMEDIATELY TO MY MIND. IT APPEARS AS IF YOU HOLD ME/US IN SOME WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CONTINUED MARITAL PROBLEMS IF I READ WHAT" DON’T CALL ME" MEANS CORRECTLY AND SECONDLY YOU (AND STEVE AND MICHAEL) CONTINUE TO DISREGARD YOUR CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH AND WELFARE BY ALWAYS PUTTING YOURSELVES FIRST. YOUR LACK OF CONSIDERATION LAST SUNDAY TO LET US KNOW YOU HAD CHANGED YOUR MIND WAS NOT NECESSARY. IT MUST BE DIFFICULT TO FACE YOURSELF AFTER ONCE AGAIN GETTING THE KID’S HOPE UP OF A NORMAL FAMILY LIFE ONLY TO ONCE AGAIN PLACE THEIR WELFARE SECOND AND PUTTING THEM BACK INTO AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY CANNOT THRIVE MUCH LESS HAVE A REMOTELY NORMAL "FAMILY" LIFE. HOW BROKEN HEARTED CAN THEY GET? – PROBABLY NOT MUCH MORE. HOW SUPPRISED ARE YOU GOING TO BE WHEN THEY WANT TO GO TO LIVE WITH MICHAEL,( IN THREE YEARS) WHICH WILL BE EXACTLY WHAT STEVE WANTS. WORSE YET, IF NOT TO MICHAEL, THEN TO DRUGS OR TO THE STREETS OR TO JAIL. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SETTING THEM UP FOR OR IS IT WHAT STEVE IS SETTING THEM UP FOR? YOU DO UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR CHILDREN HAVE A STATISTICAL PROBABILITY OF TURNING TO DRUGS AT 50% GREATER THAN THAT OF THE GENERAL POPULATION. And do you fully understand why? AS A CO-DEPENDENT PERSON, YOUR INABILITY TO SEVER DISRUPTIVE AND DANGEROUS RELATIONSHIPS HAS AGAIN PROVEN TO BE AN OBSTACLE YOU COULD NOT OVERCOME STEVE TALKED YOU OUT OF IT – AGAIN . AS YOU TOLD ME, HE CONTINUES TO SAY ITS ALL YOUR FAULT. AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE THIS, THIS RELATIONSHIP IS NOT GOING TO IMPROVE. SADLY I HAVE WATCHED THE ESCALATION OF YOUR FIGHTING, ITS STATICALLY ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE HE REALLY HURTS YOU OR ONE OF THE KIDS OR MAYBE DOES SOMETHING WORSE.(OR MAYBE ALREADY HAS AND I JUST DONT KNOW ABOUT IT -YET) HE IS ON A CLASSIC PATH TO PHYSICAL ABUSE, HAVING ALREADY PASSED VERBAL ABUSE AND PHYSICAL CONTACT DURING HEATED ARGUMENTS, THERE IS NOT MUCH FURTHER TO GO. A SIMILAR PATH WAS FOLLOWED IN STEVE’S FIRST MARRIAGE. MAYBE YOU SHOULD TALK TO KAREN. WHY DO YOU THINK HE HASN’T GONE TO COUNSELING BEFORE? HE DIDN’T GO TO SAVE HIS FIRST MARRIAGE, EITHER. COULD IT BE THAT AS YOU TOLD ME – HE SAYS HE DOESN’T NEED HELP – EVERY ONE ELSE DOES. HAVE YOU TWO BEEN YET? WHY NOT? WE ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS. WHEN FORCED TO GO TO COUNSELING HOW MUCH GOOD DO YOU THINK IT DOES? WHY ONLY NOW , BECAUSE IT SAYS WHAT YOU NEEDED TO HEAR TO BE CONTROLLED BACK INTO YOUR CURRENT SITUATION. DOESNT THAT SEEM CONTRARY TO ALL YOU KNOW AND HAVE BEEN TAUGHT? WHEN YOU FIRST MET HIM YOU TOLD ME HE REMINDED YOU A LOT OF ME.  IT IS SAD TO ME THAT YOU EVER THOUGHT HE WAS A LOT LIKE ME. IF THIS WAS EVER TRUE, LOOK AT THE CHANGE IN HIM. I SEE NO SIMILARITIES BETWEEN US AND NOW FIND THAT A COMPLETELY REPULSIVE THOUGHT. HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS IS THE PERSON YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO USE AS A ROLE MODEL. HOW FAR WILL "H" BE ABLE TO GO WHEN HE TURNS OUT TO TREAT PEOPLE (BOTH MEN AND WOMEN) LIKE STEVE DOES. WILL YOU BE PROUD OF HIM? WILL YOU BE PROUD OF YOURSELF THAT YOU LET THAT HAPPEN? THINK ABOUT THE WAY STEVE TREATS US AND PUT YOUR SELF FORWARD 20 YEARS. THIS IS HOW HE IS TEACHING "H" TO TREAT HIS GIRLFRIEND AND THEN HIS WIFE, WHEN THAT TIME COMES. THIS IS WHAT HE IS TEACHING "H" AS THE WAY TO INTERACT WITH YOUR FAMILY. "H" WILL TREAT YOU EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. HE MIGHT EVEN LEARN SO LITTLE THAT HE WONT BE ABLE TO COME TO OUR FUNERALS, WHAT DO YOU THINK.? HOW WILL YOU PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN FROM HIS PORNOGRAPHIC TENDENCIES, ESPECIALLY YOUR DAUGHTER? DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING AT NIGHT WHEN HE DOESN’T COME TO BED AND IS ON THE COMPUTER OR UPSTAIRS? HOW WILL YOU EXPLAIN TO CPS THE NEXT TIME HE HURTS "H"- I REMEMBER HIM TELLLING YOUR MOTHER AND I – "I SQUEEZED HIS ARM REAL HARD" HE SAID PROUDLY. I CAN UNDERSTAND DISCIPLINING A CHILD BUT I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND A 220 LB MAN HURTING A CHILD JUST TO MAKE A POINT — NEVER! HOW ARE YOU GOING TO EXPLAIN TO AND FACE YOUR CHILDREN WHEN THEY COME TO YOU AND ASK YOU "WHY DIDN’T YOU DO SOMETHING, MOMMY, WHEN YOU KNEW WHAT THE SITUATION WAS AND WHAT WAS GOING ON. WILL YOU LIKE IT (AND YOU ARE RAPIDLY APPROACHING) HAVING BASICALLY NO FAMILY AS STEVE HAS MANAGED TO DO? DO YOU HAVE ANY FRIENDS, EVEN ONE , ANY COUPLES FRIENDS, DO YOU WONDER WHY NOT – I DON’T! WE HAVE OBSERVED A COMPLETE DEGRADATION OF YOUR SELF ESTEEM SINCE YOUR MARRIAGE TO STEVE, I WONDER WHY IT HAS BEEN IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO STEVE TO HAVE A WIFE WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SELF-ESTEEM TO ROB YOU OF YOURS? IT CERTAINLY HELPS PARTIALLY EXPLAIN HOW HE CONTROLS YOU. WHAT A LIFE IT MUST BE TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO LISTENS TO YOUR PHONE CONVERSATIONS, TIMES YOU WHEN YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE, LEAVES YOU AT A BAR BY YOUR SELF BECAUSE SOMEONE LOOKED AT YOU, CALLS YOU SEWER-CURSE NAMES, MAKES YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN CRY ON AN EVERYDAY, OR EVERY OTHER DAY-BASIS, AND ON AND ON. GOD YOU MUST REALIZE HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR YOU AS A WOMAN, A SPOUSE, AND FINALLY, EVEN A PERSON. STEVE’S THE ONE BEFORE YOU EVEN GOT MARRIED THAT SAID YOU NEEDED TO BE ON SOMETHING TO CALM YOU DOWN – DO YOU SUPPOSE THAT WAS A WAY TO CONTROL YOU – INSTEAD OF YOU HAVING YOUR OWN OPINION AND MIND? THIS SHOULD BE THE ENDING PARAGRAPH BUT I’M NOT SURE IT WILL BE. YEARS AGO WE, OUR FAMILY, LEFT PORTLAND BECAUSE YOU WERE IN A RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS PROVING TO BE DANGEROUS PHYSICALLY TO YOU AND OTHERWISE TO ME. I CONSIDERED LEAVING A SACRIFICE THAT NEEDED TO BE MADE, YOUR HEALTH AND WELFARE CAME FIRST. FOUR YEARS AGO AT GREAT COST AND VIRTUAL ABANDONMENT OF OUR BUSINESS FOR 3 MONTHS, WE MOVED TO SAN ANTONIO TO PULL YOU AND THE KIDS THROUGH THE MOST DIFFICULT TIME OF YOUR AND THEIR LIVES. AGAIN A RELATIONSHIP WHERE YOUR PHYSICAL WELL BEING WAS IN JEPARDY EVERY DAY – NOT TO MENTION THE PHYSICAL PAIN TO "H" AND THE MENTAL ANGUISH THE CHILDREN HAD TO ENDURE. HE, TOO, SHOWED YOUR KIDS, AT LEAST "H", THAT IT IS OK TO HURT PEOPLE PHYSICALLY, FOR NOT ANY PRACTICAL REASON. I WORRY ABOUT HUNTEER CONTINUING TO BE ROUGH AND SOMETIMES HURTING "C" -FOR NO REASON. STEVE HAS CONTINUED THAT EXAMPLE – "DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO" DOES … read more »

Response:

IN THE PAST YEAR, YOU HAVE HAD MANY OCCASSIONS THAT YOU FELT THE NECESSITY TO LEAVE THE RELATIONSHIP WITH STEVE – WE ALWAYS TOLD YOU IT WOULD HAVE TO BE YOUR DECISION AND WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT – BUT IT YOU DECIDED TO STAY – WE WOULD REMAIN NEUTRAL AFFECTING THAT DECISION. BUT THAT ASIDE NOW, YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW WE FEEL ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO STAY. This email letter has effectively ended the agreement my wife and I had made to divorce as friends.  It has caused me emotional distressed on a level I’ve never felt before and has seriously impaired my ability to keep our business going.  My children miss their step-brother and sister and wonder if they will ever see them again. This letter was neither fair nor necessary and I believe my wife’s parents should be held accountable somehow.

These in-laws are scum, low-life.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they appeared on Springer.  I understand the letter to your wife, but not cc’ing it to all the relatives. They are controlling and manipulative.  If your current wife didn’t know about your past "indisgressions" before she married you, that would be one thing. BTW, leave the suing alone.  Get custody of the kids and keep the in-laws from seeing them.  Yeah, that’ll teach ‘em. Honestly though, this letter would piss me off, but you’re better off ignoring it, hard as it would be.  Nothing good will come from trying to sue them unless they were somehow lying about the facts.   — Joe

Response:

Filed under: Feminist

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