Invite all to research "gender wage gap"
Question:
Now, wait one minute… Are you saying Chive, who I have had killfiled like forever, started this mess, vanda?
Chive crossposted an article out of some old cook book about what a good wife should do. Laura!
Response:
Oh crud! I must have my motorized rocking chair glasses on again. I thought that hash tasted funny and cat seemed pretty pissed off. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is on screen! Laura! I haven’t been able to keep my mind on a "single subject" for more then ten minutes since I was sixty….or was that fifty…maybe fifty two…where’s my deck of cards… Why isn’t the solitare game on screen. <BG Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk LOL – This scenario wouldn’t in any way explain your lengthy disappearances, would it? — Air muir ’s air tir, Sean of Clan Uisdin If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi’ a dram o’ Glen Ord. … The heroes of the race of Conn are dead, How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them! We shall not live long after them, Perilous we think it to be bereaved of the brotherhood! Cathal MacMhuirich "Well, I’m sick of this room and everyone in it!" – Bender "Everything’s gone wrong since Canada came along!" – MAC (Mothers against Canada) — Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
One other thing, Sean. Though I’ve been called many things on this news group, including a "Magickal Hit Man," and a "Mean old lesbian bitch," I have never been labeled boring. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk LOL – This scenario wouldn’t in any way explain your lengthy disappearances, would it? — Air muir ’s air tir, Sean of Clan Uisdin If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi’ a dram o’ Glen Ord. … The heroes of the race of Conn are dead, How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them! We shall not live long after them, Perilous we think it to be bereaved of the brotherhood! Cathal MacMhuirich "Well, I’m sick of this room and everyone in it!" – Bender "Everything’s gone wrong since Canada came along!" – MAC (Mothers against Canada)
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
Oh crud! I must have my motorized rocking chair glasses on again. I thought that hash tasted funny and cat seemed pretty pissed off.
It is that oriental in you. Laura!
Response:
No, I only orient at al when I can remember where I put my Feng Shui books, and I’ve lost track of the bookcase again. Oh crud! I must have my motorized rocking chair glasses on again. I thought that hash tasted funny and cat seemed pretty pissed off. It is that oriental in you. Laura!
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
No, I only orient at al when I can remember where I put my Feng Shui books, and I’ve lost track of the bookcase again.
Damn, I always give all my books away or I’d give you my Feng Shui. Laura!
Response:
Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening
exercise. <snippety-snip Why was this crossposted to alt.religion.wicca? It really has nothing whatsoever to do with Wicca as a religion. ~SD~
Response:
Why was this crossposted to alt.religion.wicca? It really has nothing whatsoever to do with Wicca as a religion.
Because Chive started a crosspost. Laura!
Response:
Why was this crossposted to alt.religion.wicca? It really has nothing whatsoever to do with Wicca as a religion. Because Chive started a crosspost.
Oooooo — Chive will now accuse you of being a woman-hater! ;-)
Response:
Now, could you really do without your feng! Why I’d bounce right out of my shui if such was asked of me…if I could ever find my hearing aid glasses, so I could see what I was saying. No, I only orient at al when I can remember where I put my Feng Shui books, and I’ve lost track of the bookcase again. Damn, I always give all my books away or I’d give you my Feng Shui. Laura!
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
Now, could you really do without your feng! Why I’d bounce right out of my shui if such was asked of me…if I could ever find my hearing aid glasses, so I could see what I was saying.
Ahh, when it boils right down to it, I am FREE without props! It is always in my mind and I’m never without. Oh, I saw the dog chewing on something…hmmm, did sound like plastic… Laura!
Response:
Not your automatic, double-action, brain cell stimulator, I hope! Now, could you really do without your feng! Why I’d bounce right out of my shui if such was asked of me…if I could ever find my hearing aid glasses, so I could see what I was saying. Ahh, when it boils right down to it, I am FREE without props! It is always in my mind and I’m never without. Oh, I saw the dog chewing on something…hmmm, did sound like plastic… Laura!
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
Now, wait one minute… Are you saying Chive, who I have had killfiled like forever, started this mess, vanda? Why was this crossposted to alt.religion.wicca? It really has nothing whatsoever to do with Wicca as a religion. Because Chive started a crosspost. Laura!
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
No! Your hearing aid!! Laura! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not your automatic, double-action, brain cell stimulator, I hope! Now, could you really do without your feng! Why I’d bounce right out of my shui if such was asked of me…if I could ever find my hearing aid glasses, so I could see what I was saying. Ahh, when it boils right down to it, I am FREE without props! It is always in my mind and I’m never without. Oh, I saw the dog chewing on something…hmmm, did sound like plastic… Laura! — Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
Didn’t take long. I would look up Mr. Snyders links, but they wouldn’t prove anything one way or another. There simply is no proof.
How can you say that? This is not mysticism. This is numbers! Every link that I provided says the same thing — "women’s AVERAGE WEEKLY INCOME is 75 percent of men’s". Not a single source can be found that says that women earn 75 cents to men’s dollar AT THE SAME WORK. With the same hours. With the same experience. And the same qualifications. All studies that DO compare for those variables (and I posted links to several, including some done by the US. Dept. of Labor) find numbers much higher than 75 percent. Studies that control for ALL of those variables (and I posted a link to at least one) find ratios between 95 and 98 percent. THIS IS NOT MYSTICISM. This is not something un-knowable. The information is readily available. I do not understand how you can say, in one breath, "I did not bother to look" and "we can never know". Okay, so, honestly? I don’t think there is much difference in the amount of pay for similar jobs. Perhaps less than 20% difference (I wouldn’t tell those trolls that, they have to come here for that). But, are the women as able to get the jobs? Is there not a pervasive ‘old boy network’ attitude? I even know a local business ‘man’, yes, man, who is sick of the ‘old boy network’ in my town. They aren’t just a set of elitist men, but are elitist against males not in their group as well.
This is a separate question, and one I would be willing to discuss, but I have to state again — the ratio of women’s earnings to men’s in similar jobs with similar experience and qualifications is not un-knowable, nor is it unknown. The information is available. If you won’t look, you won’t look, but I flat cannot understand your saying "we can never know". We do know. And we know that it ain’t 75 percent. I always listen to people, and I give people lots of chances. If someone proves me wrong, I admit it. These guys are simply boring.
Well — we may be boring, but the proof you ask for is right below this sentence. If you won’t look, don’t claim to be willing to admit when you’re wrong. This is not rocket science. You don’t need a master’s degree to look at the first page of any one of a dozen government reports and read the words "average weekly earnings". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Laura! Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening exercise. Also see if you can detect any other patterns. I won’t tell you what I’m looking for, to avoid biasing you. http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/1w&occ.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/esa/public/media/reports/ofccp/sfaqspay.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/12/art5full.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/97sum.htm http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/nl900040.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworth.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/11/bookrevs.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/2001.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworks.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/tools.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/10step71.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/asp/public/programs/history/herman/budget/9903… t m http://www.dol.gov/dol/opa/public/media/press/wb/wb98242.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/spln1999.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/honor.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wagegap2000.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wage.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/www.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/20fact00.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/wb-2.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/achart.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/2000.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2000/Jan/wk4/art01.htm Again — I challenge _anybody_ to find _any_ evidence on these websites that women are paid 79 percent of what men are paid (or less) for doing the SAME work at the SAME skill level with the SAME experience etc. In fact, I would be interested to see any evidence that they are paid less AT ALL, when all such factors are taken into account. — Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
It is on screen! Laura! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t been able to keep my mind on a "single subject" for more then ten minutes since I was sixty….or was that fifty…maybe fifty two…where’s my deck of cards… Why isn’t the solitare game on screen. <BG Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk LOL – This scenario wouldn’t in any way explain your lengthy disappearances, would it? — Air muir ’s air tir, Sean of Clan Uisdin If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi’ a dram o’ Glen Ord. … The heroes of the race of Conn are dead, How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them! We shall not live long after them, Perilous we think it to be bereaved of the brotherhood! Cathal MacMhuirich "Well, I’m sick of this room and everyone in it!" – Bender "Everything’s gone wrong since Canada came along!" – MAC (Mothers against Canada) — Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
Didn’t take long. I would look up Mr. Snyders links, but they wouldn’t prove anything one way or another. There simply is no proof. Okay, so, honestly? I don’t think there is much difference in the amount of pay for similar jobs. Perhaps less than 20% difference (I wouldn’t tell those trolls that, they have to come here for that). But, are the women as able to get the jobs? Is there not a pervasive ‘old boy network’ attitude? I even know a local business ‘man’, yes, man, who is sick of the ‘old boy network’ in my town. They aren’t just a set of elitist men, but are elitist against males not in their group as well. I always listen to people, and I give people lots of chances. If someone proves me wrong, I admit it. These guys are simply boring. Laura! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening exercise. Also see if you can detect any other patterns. I won’t tell you what I’m looking for, to avoid biasing you. http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/1w&occ.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/esa/public/media/reports/ofccp/sfaqspay.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/12/art5full.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/97sum.htm http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/nl900040.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworth.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/11/bookrevs.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/2001.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworks.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/tools.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/10step71.htm
http://www.dol.gov/dol/asp/public/programs/history/herman/budget/9903… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – m http://www.dol.gov/dol/opa/public/media/press/wb/wb98242.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/spln1999.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/honor.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wagegap2000.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wage.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/www.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/20fact00.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/wb-2.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/achart.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/2000.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2000/Jan/wk4/art01.htm Again — I challenge _anybody_ to find _any_ evidence on these websites that women are paid 79 percent of what men are paid (or less) for doing the SAME work at the SAME skill level with the SAME experience etc. In fact, I would be interested to see any evidence that they are paid less AT ALL, when all such factors are taken into account. — Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk
LOL – This scenario wouldn’t in any way explain your lengthy disappearances, would it? — Air muir ’s air tir, Sean of Clan Uisdin If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi’ a dram o’ Glen Ord. … The heroes of the race of Conn are dead, How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them! We shall not live long after them, Perilous we think it to be bereaved of the brotherhood! Cathal MacMhuirich "Well, I’m sick of this room and everyone in it!" – Bender "Everything’s gone wrong since Canada came along!" – MAC (Mothers against Canada)
Response:
I haven’t been able to keep my mind on a "single subject" for more then ten minutes since I was sixty….or was that fifty…maybe fifty two…where’s my deck of cards… Why isn’t the solitare game on screen. <BG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk LOL – This scenario wouldn’t in any way explain your lengthy disappearances, would it? — Air muir ’s air tir, Sean of Clan Uisdin If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi’ a dram o’ Glen Ord. … The heroes of the race of Conn are dead, How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them! We shall not live long after them, Perilous we think it to be bereaved of the brotherhood! Cathal MacMhuirich "Well, I’m sick of this room and everyone in it!" – Bender "Everything’s gone wrong since Canada came along!" – MAC (Mothers against Canada)
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
Here we again have an example of the portable single subject soap opera of the alt.feminism trolls. The move from place to place seeking attention with their rote learned ploys and lines. Until whatever NG they invade gets bored, ignores them, and they quickly go elsewere before they disappear for want of attention. I’ve reached the bored with them stage. plonk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening exercise. Also see if you can detect any other patterns. I won’t tell you what I’m looking for, to avoid biasing you. http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/1w&occ.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/esa/public/media/reports/ofccp/sfaqspay.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/12/art5full.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/97sum.htm http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/nl900040.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworth.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/11/bookrevs.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/2001.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworks.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/tools.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/10step71.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/asp/public/programs/history/herman/budget/9903… m http://www.dol.gov/dol/opa/public/media/press/wb/wb98242.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/spln1999.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/honor.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wagegap2000.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wage.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/www.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/20fact00.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/wb-2.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/achart.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/2000.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2000/Jan/wk4/art01.htm Again — I challenge _anybody_ to find _any_ evidence on these websites that women are paid 79 percent of what men are paid (or less) for doing the SAME work at the SAME skill level with the SAME experience etc. In fact, I would be interested to see any evidence that they are paid less AT ALL, when all such factors are taken into account.
– Terry A Pagan Files Archive http://paganfiles.drak.net
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening exercise. [snip] Michael: Men have been fighting this misinformation for more than a decade. What are you actually going to do *outside* this group to make the truth known? Which magazines and newspapers are you going to write to? Which TV and radio shows will you appear on? C’mon, people, let’s get *active*. All the discussion here seem to live and die here; how about a little outside ACTION? Write a letter to the editor, a column in a magazine, a newsletter, debate it on the street. Agitate for legislation. *Do* something about it, don’t just try to talk it to death.
Within the last month, there were well-publicized hearings on Capitol Hill about the misconception and the 74% number and its variants. So it is getting out. More and more of us are saying it, at conferences and in the little venues available to us. What’s your venue? What will you do? MR
Response:
Hi melisande: Men have been fighting this misinformation for more than a decade. What are you actually going to do *outside* this group to make the truth known? Which magazines and newspapers are you going to write to? Which TV and radio shows will you appear on? C’mon, people, let’s get *active*. All the discussion here seem to live and die here; how about a little outside ACTION? Write a letter to the editor, a column in a magazine, a newsletter, debate it on the street. Agitate for legislation. *Do* something about it, don’t just try to talk it to death. Within the last month, there were well-publicized hearings on Capitol Hill about the misconception and the 74% number and its variants.
Any sources you can mention on this on the internet? Not asking you to prove anything here, just would like to know. I’d be amazed if anything unbiased was actually discussed on this point on capitol hill. Amazed. I think other people here, such as Michael, would like to know as well. So it is getting out. More and more of us are saying it, at conferences and in the little venues available to us. What’s your venue? What will you do?
I burned out of the masculist business years ago (posted to this group for over two years, years ago) after seeing more and more men who just didn’t care, wouldn’t fight, wouldn’t even let themselves see or discuss the truth. I had been in NOM, and was an officer in the Nation Center for Men (NCM)–probably the most in-your-face men’s group this country has ever seen, ran phone trees to bombard newspapers that had sexist policies–getting upwards of four dozen protesters at a time to call specific reporters at national networks–ran NCM’s MediaWatch paper, became a good friend of Warren "The Myth of Male Power" Farrell and have contributed to his books, gotten letters to the editor published in USA Today on the earnings gap, as well as Time, NewsWeek, and local papers; have sent individual letters to over 500 organizations and companies to protest sexist tactics and ads, as well as published their addresses in MediaWatch for others to write to, sent out hundreds of press releases, been in public debates, call-in radio shows, and sit-ins–risking arrest–and dozens of other things. But as time when on, I saw that men were just making themselves not face the issues; they’d drop their heads and look in their laps when feminists held court. You could talk until you were blue in the face, but there’d never be any action at all, not about open discrimination against men, not when we tried six different times to launch a c4m lawsuit both in NY and NJ, even when we got lawyers who would do it pro bono, not when we filed a lawsuit (I wrote the brief) over the title 7 violations of take-your-daughters-to-work day in the NYC public school system, and etc…so I no longer respect anyone who just talks and talks and talks. Show me the action, and I’ll believe again. But not until then. You have to show me the action first.
Response:
Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening exercise.
[snip] Michael: Men have been fighting this misinformation for more than a decade. What are you actually going to do *outside* this group to make the truth known? Which magazines and newspapers are you going to write to? Which TV and radio shows will you appear on? C’mon, people, let’s get *active*. All the discussion here seem to live and die here; how about a little outside ACTION? Write a letter to the editor, a column in a magazine, a newsletter, debate it on the street. Agitate for legislation. *Do* something about it, don’t just try to talk it to death.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening exercise. [snip] Michael: Men have been fighting this misinformation for more than a decade. What are you actually going to do *outside* this group to make the truth known? Which magazines and newspapers are you going to write to? Which TV and radio shows will you appear on? C’mon, people, let’s get *active*. All the discussion here seem to live and die here; how about a little outside ACTION? Write a letter to the editor, a column in a magazine, a newsletter, debate it on the street. Agitate for legislation. *Do* something about it, don’t just try to talk it to death.
Dream, I dunno if you’ve noticed, but this discussion has been taking place outside of alt.feminism. You don’t think it is a good thing for the good people of alt.religion.wicca to be exposed to the truth? Michael [here are those Dept. of Labor URL's again...] http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/1w&occ.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/esa/public/media/reports/ofccp/sfaqspay.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/12/art5full.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/97sum.htm http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/nl900040.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworth.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/11/bookrevs.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/2001.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworks.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/tools.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/10step71.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/asp/public/programs/history/herman/budget/9903… m http://www.dol.gov/dol/opa/public/media/press/wb/wb98242.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/spln1999.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/honor.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wagegap2000.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wage.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/www.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/20fact00.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/wb-2.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/achart.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/2000.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2000/Jan/wk4/art01.htm
Response:
Here are a ton of links from the US Dept. of Labor, concerning the supposed gender wage gap. I invite one and all to check them out, and every time you see that 74 or 76 or 79 cents on the dollar figure, see if you can tell whether it is referring to the same job, same qualifications, same experience etc. or is in fact referring to the average of all people who work full time. See if you can find ANY evidence that women are actually paid seventy-something cents to the dollar for the same work, same qualifications, etc. It should be an eye opening exercise. Also see if you can detect any other patterns. I won’t tell you what I’m looking for, to avoid biasing you. http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/1w&occ.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/esa/public/media/reports/ofccp/sfaqspay.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/12/art5full.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/97sum.htm http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/nl900040.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworth.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/11/bookrevs.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/2001.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/programs/fpcworks.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/tools.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/10step71.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/asp/public/programs/history/herman/budget/9903… m http://www.dol.gov/dol/opa/public/media/press/wb/wb98242.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/spln1999.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/honor.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wagegap2000.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/wage.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/www.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/20fact00.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/wb-2.pdf http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/achart.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/wb/public/wb_pubs/2000.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2000/Jan/wk4/art01.htm Again — I challenge _anybody_ to find _any_ evidence on these websites that women are paid 79 percent of what men are paid (or less) for doing the SAME work at the SAME skill level with the SAME experience etc. In fact, I would be interested to see any evidence that they are paid less AT ALL, when all such factors are taken into account.
Response:
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