Clearing the air
Question:
>For instance i’ve recently had a coward send me a scalding private >e-mail accussing me of among other things being a "big loon" with a "warped >world view".
In defense of said e-mailer, I think most of us think your a loon with a warped world view. I still haven’t even been able to figured out your sexuality yet, gold dust woman.
Response:
AhMe123 wrote: > >For instance i’ve recently had a coward send me a scalding private > >e-mail accussing me of among other things being a "big loon" with a "warped > >world view". > In defense of said e-mailer, I think most of us think your a loon with a > warped world view.
Really? How many others hear agree with Don and Ahme and think i’m a loon with a warped world view? What is so warped about my world view anyways? i welcome all replies because this topic has really piqued my interest. i know some people R afraid to reply to my posts due to my "pit bull" reputation but don’t worry, i won’t challenge whatever U consider to be so "warped" about me. > I still haven’t even been able to figured out your > sexuality yet, gold dust woman.
Why is it when a heterosexual defends the gay community people automatically "question" his sexuality? As i have mentioned in several posts i am heterosexual. Love, Kris When you’re weary, feeling small, When tears are in your eyes, I’ll dry them all. I’m on your side,oh, when times get rough, And friends just can’t be found, Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down -Simon & Garfunkel
Response:
On 08-Mar-98 04:13:45, Ulrich Pollmann wrote : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Kris <Gold_Dust_Wo…@ibm.net> wrote in article ><3500E309.B67EC…@ibm.net>: >>Do others perceive of me the same way Baezulboob does? Do i really come >>across as an embittered, bitchy malcontent here on a.s.s.? Did speaking >>openly and honestly about my mental problems leave a sour taste in >>everyone’s mouth? i’m just curious as to how i’m perceived here on a.s.s. >>and i’d like everyone’s HONEST opinions. Am i like Elton John: do my >>theatrics overshadow my substance? >Well, I just reread most of your messages — and *I* think such an >assessment would be more than a little bit unjust. >OTOH, you have to take into account that your picking on DTWC is >*salient* to most of us lurkers, more than your positive contributions >– or that’s what I believe at least. You know, people develop some >expectations after reading nitpicks several times, so they become >sensitive to this kind of thing. BTW, it may very well be that this >selective perception is exactly what happened to *you*: If you’d take >the time to reread DTWC’s contributions unbiased — as I did with >yours –, you’d prolly come to the conclusion that he’s also posting >some non-garbage from time to time: REALLY! >Finally, it may very well be that not everybody appreciates your >criticism on non-PC language, so this won’t buy you a beer either. >I think most of us wouldn’t be cross with you if you’d just killfile >DTWC. In fact, if you’d spend your energy on *showing* that *you*’re >an OK guy, instead of trying to demonstrate that *he* isn’t, all of >you would be better off.
Well, that IS what he is trying to do now, I think. Regards. Sylvain Van der Walde. swa…@swalde.u-net.com
Response:
On 1 Mar 1998, Sylvain Van der Walde wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >some of you are just PLAYING at being a support group. I haven’t been a > >member of AA, but I have friends who have been, and the effective groups > >are pretty ruthless with people who haven’t faced up to their > >responsibility for their actions. > Horses for courses. This group is for shy people, not for alcoholics. > >I know I am considered something of an unschooled bumpkin by some of the > >regulars here. And it’s true that I am *only* a high school graduate and > >a window cleaner. But I have a ton of miles on me on the road to REAL > >recovery. What I’ve done has actually worked, and I’m starting to think > >that this ticks some of you off. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > You are insulting our intelligence (speaking for myself and kindred spirits). > Just a newcomer’s view.
I get ticked off by your attitude, Sylvain. You do NOTHING but criticize. Why dont you do something CREATIVE for a change? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to > >express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, however, > >because I don’t wanna cause you any grief… > Loyalty is a FINE thing. > >DTWC > You HAVE cleared the air, Don. Good for you. > Regards. > Sylvain Van der Walde. > swa…@swalde.u-net.com
+++++++++++++++++++++ v /()-T ‘94 Kawasaki ZX6E O ^o +++++++++++++++++++++ — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
Response:
Those were praise? forgive me then. I thought you were being ironic. I am curious why do you feel the need to CAPITALIZE key words. We can understand it just fine without THEM. On 3 Mar 1998, Sylvain Van der Walde wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On 02-Mar-98 16:45:06, JerryO wrote : > >On 1 Mar 1998, Sylvain Van der Walde wrote: > >I get ticked off by your attitude, Sylvain. You do NOTHING but criticize. > >Why dont you do something CREATIVE for a change? > Hello JerryO. I believe that my criticisms are constructive; but I do > ALSO give praise (see below). WHAT creative things would you like me to do? > >> >Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to > >> >express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, however, > >> >because I don’t wanna cause you any grief… > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> Loyalty is a FINE thing. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> >DTWC > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> You HAVE cleared the air, Don. Good for you. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> Regards. > >> Sylvain Van der Walde. > >> swa…@swalde.u-net.com > > v > > /()-T > >’94 Kawasaki ZX6E O ^o > >+++++++++++++++++++++ > Regards. > Sylvain Van der Walde. > swa…@swalde.u-net.com
+++++++++++++++++++++ v /()-T ‘94 Kawasaki ZX6E O ^o +++++++++++++++++++++ — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
Response:
On 02-Mar-98 16:45:06, JerryO wrote : >On 1 Mar 1998, Sylvain Van der Walde wrote: >I get ticked off by your attitude, Sylvain. You do NOTHING but criticize. >Why dont you do something CREATIVE for a change?
Hello JerryO. I believe that my criticisms are constructive; but I do ALSO give praise (see below). WHAT creative things would you like me to do? >> >Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to >> >express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, however, >> >because I don’t wanna cause you any grief…
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Loyalty is a FINE thing.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >DTWC
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> You HAVE cleared the air, Don. Good for you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Regards. >> Sylvain Van der Walde. >> swa…@swalde.u-net.com > v > /()-T >’94 Kawasaki ZX6E O ^o >+++++++++++++++++++++
Regards. Sylvain Van der Walde. swa…@swalde.u-net.com
Response:
On 07-Mar-98 06:02:49, Kris wrote : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Baezulboob wrote: >> I’ve been lurking for quite some time here, and posting every now and then, >> and Kris, quite frankly I must say your shit-picking attitude is >> disgusting. You may not like all or even any of what Don the window >> cleaner has to say but at least he attempts to offer constructive, >> practical advice for overcoming shyness. Notice I said attempts, I don’t >> think all of his ideas are usefull for everyone, but I do think some of >> them may be usefull for some people. >> I can’t recall you doing anything but bitching and moaning about how >> unfair >> the world is and how hopeless it is to even try because of your mental >> problems. >How quickly ye forget. I do more than just "bitch" as U say. For instance who >here has done posts on the following topics: forgiving others, mending fences >with your enemies, telling others U love them and giving thanks for all the >things U do have. Who here is an outspoken champion for the gay community >and for women? Who here has spoken out on behalf of volunteering? Who here >would gladly champion and defend racial and ethnic minorities if a proper >segueway ever presented itself? Who here has spoken out on the evils of >egocentricity? The answer to all these questions is yours truly. >> That’s fine, if you care to wallow in self pity, I really couldn’t >> give a fuck. But to react with such animosity when someone offers advice >> you don’t agree with is offensive to those who want to at least attempt to >> change themselves. >Do others perceive of me the same way Baezulboob does? Do i really come >across as an embittered, bitchy malcontent here on a.s.s.? Did speaking >openly and honestly about my mental problems leave a sour taste in everyone’s >mouth? i’m just curious as to how i’m perceived here on a.s.s. and i’d like >everyone’s HONEST opinions. Am i like Elton John: do my theatrics overshadow >my substance?
Well, there is something in what Baezulboob says. > Kris
Regards. Sylvain Van der Walde. swa…@swalde.u-net.com
Response:
Will Grzanich wrote: > Hate to burst your bubble, good buddy, but it sure as hell didn’t sound to > me like you were playing "devil’s advocate." Sounded like an out-and-out > attack on the single deity of Don’s religion.
Actually Don was referring to me as a "loon" for speaking against something i don’t even believe in. That’s why i said i was playing the "devil’s advocate". For instance IF God did exist i wouldn’t worship him due to philospical and political differences. > I’ll admit that I’m a > Catholic, too, though not a horribly devout one — you know, the ol’ "go to > church on Christmas and Easter" deal. I even tend to take a somewhat > deistic view on God. But your remarks, I must admit, were a bit insulting > to me, as well.
i apologize for attacking God so vehemently. i’m a bit on edge nowadays because my parents FORCE me to go to church every Sunday. i’m too shy to tell my parents i don’t believe in God so my only outlet is the internet. In the future i’ll just go to alt.atheism or a like minded group in order to vent. Sorry. 
> >i’m curious Don. What R your opinions on homosexuality???? > With all due respect, what difference does it make?
The reason i ask is because i suspect Don is a (gasp!) homophobe. He’s made a # of statements that certainly would lead one to believe he is a homophobe HOWEVER in this country you’re innocent until proven guilty so i don’t wish to jump to any conclusions about Don. Hence i ask him for the truth point-blank. Let’s look at this issue in another light. Say an a.s.s. female does a post about being taken advantage of by an unscrupulous man. Her severe shyness caused her to be unable to say "no" and now said female is pregnant. She asks whether she should abort her fetus. Now let’s say Don replies and says, "U make your bed, now lie in it. Maybe next time you’ll say no." This statement could be taken two ways. At first it seems as if Don is anti-choice but upon a second reading it could be interpreted that Don is pro-choice HOWEVER he just doesn’t think shyness should be used as an excuse for promiscuity. Obviously the readers would be curious as to Don’s true stand on the issue of choice just as we are curious about his stand on homosexuality. It seems as if he is both anti-choice and anti-homosexual however we here at a.s.s. R open-minded enough to give him the benefit of the doubt until he admits otherwise. > Would that somehow affect his right to be a presence on this newsgroup, or the
quality or validity of his posts? i think it would affect the validity of his posts. Let’s say Don replies back, quotes a few Bible verses and deems homosexuality immoral, perverse and wrong. Could U take someone who holds such backward and small-minded beliefs seriously? Quite frankly i think asking Don’s opinion on homosexuality is just as important as the issue of choice i alluded to earlier. It would be hard to take a poster seriously who would deny a woman choice, isn’t it? i can think of few things more brutish and arrogant than forcing a woman to go through with an unwanted pregancy. And notice how men are disproportionately ANTI-CHOICE. Small wonder considering they aren’t the ones who would be forced to carry an unwanted pregancy for NINE months. Love, Kris When you’re weary, feeling small, When tears are in your eyes, I’ll dry them all. I’m on your side,oh, when times get rough, And friends just can’t be found, Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down -Simon & Garfunkel
Response:
Will Grzanich wrote: > Kris wrote: > >First off i was simply playing the devil’s advocate when i made said > >remark. IF there was a God i wouldn’t bow b4 him due to political > >and philosphical differences. > >U see i was just playing a game of "what IF . . . " > Hate to burst your bubble, good buddy, but it sure as hell didn’t sound > to me like you were playing "devil’s advocate." Sounded like an out-and- > out attack on the single deity of Don’s religion. I’ll admit that I’m a > Catholic, too, though not a horribly devout one — you know, the ol’ "go > to church on Christmas and Easter" deal. I even tend to take a somewhat > deistic view on God. But your remarks, I must admit, were a bit insulting > to me, as well.
You are doing better than me Will, i haven’t been to church in 3 years not even on Christmas nor Easter. > Kris wrote: > >Some of my Christian friends R open-minded enough to accept and RESPECT > >homosexuals. Or R U one of these Christains who R sticklers for > >scriptures and thus denounce homosexuality as a "sin".
Be open-minded to Don’s religious beliefs too, Kris. Why do his believes matter to you? I have different beliefs than you and we can get along. > Would that somehow affect his right to be a presence on this newsgroup, or > the quality or validity of his posts?
Peace, -dAirWreck "Better to remain silent and appear a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" —————————————————————– rsori…@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu_No_Junkmail http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/7982/
Response:
Baezulboob wrote: > I’ve been lurking for quite some time here, and posting every now and then, and > Kris, quite frankly I must say your shit-picking attitude is disgusting. You > may not like all or even any of what Don the window cleaner has to say but at > least he attempts to offer constructive, practical advice for overcoming > shyness. Notice I said attempts, I don’t think all of his ideas are usefull > for everyone, but I do think some of them may be usefull for some people. > I can’t recall you doing anything but bitching and moaning about how unfair > the world is and how hopeless it is to even try because of your mental > problems.
How quickly ye forget. I do more than just "bitch" as U say. For instance who here has done posts on the following topics: forgiving others, mending fences with your enemies, telling others U love them and giving thanks for all the things U do have. Who here is an outspoken champion for the gay community and for women? Who here has spoken out on behalf of volunteering? Who here would gladly champion and defend racial and ethnic minorities if a proper segueway ever presented itself? Who here has spoken out on the evils of egocentricity? The answer to all these questions is yours truly. > That’s fine, if you care to wallow in self pity, I really couldn’t > give a fuck. But to react with such animosity when someone offers advice you > don’t agree with is offensive to those who want to at least attempt to change > themselves.
Do others perceive of me the same way Baezulboob does? Do i really come across as an embittered, bitchy malcontent here on a.s.s.? Did speaking openly and honestly about my mental problems leave a sour taste in everyone’s mouth? i’m just curious as to how i’m perceived here on a.s.s. and i’d like everyone’s HONEST opinions. Am i like Elton John: do my theatrics overshadow my substance? Love, Kris They showed you a statue and told you to pray They built you a temple and locked you away But they never told you the price that you pay For things that you might have done….. Only the good die young -Billy Joel
Response:
DTWC wrote: > Kris wrote: > > If U feel strongly enough to excoriate someone then by all means > > do it in public.
Maybe he was too shy, or maybe he felt that other people didn’t want to read about his opinion cuz it wasn’t relevant to shyness. "Things are not always as they seem to appear." > in REAL-LIFE, it is thought to be polite to privately pull someone > aside who is making a fool of himself and tell him so. This is to keep > the embarrassment of the fool down to a minimum. But, as usual, you are > making the rules as you go along. I think it is funny that you did not > include the context in which I called you a big loon, including your > loony remarks. Now, that is cowardly. And dishonest. > > Unfortunately this coward doesn’t wish to show his true colors to > > the NG. Guess he doesn’t have much faith in his convictions and > > opinions, does he? Or maybe he’s just afraid of the flaming he’ll > > no doubt take if his backwards views become publicknowledge.
Or maybe he sees this thread is beginning to get too personal and insults are soon to be hurled left and right. > Do you ever listen to yourself? You have to reach into yur bag of new, > invented insults to find things I’ve done wrong. My, what big words you > use to say nothing!
Sometimes i click on send before i think enough about the consequences. > > Well guess what? Don said "no" to my polite request. I’ve rarely seen > > such blatant and UNAPOLOGETIC homophobia as i have from Don.
We don’t have to agree with another’s opinions all the time in a forum such as this newsgroup. Free speech is an American right for all. > > I won’t name U, however, because i’m afraid right-wing bible-thumping > > hate mongerers will cowardly fill your e-mailboxes with hate mail like > > they have me!
Hating another hater? Two wrongs do not make things right… Peace, -DareWreck "Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away Now it looks as though they’re here to stay Oh i believe in yesterday…" —————————————————————– rsori…@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu_No_Junkmail http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/7982/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kris wrote in message <35004C20.F1E1A…@ibm.net>… >>>Yeah why in the world would i wanna bow before an ego-mad dictator like God? >> Behold, the raging speck… >>> If he wants his massive ego gratified i suggest he look elsewhere becaue i >>> ain’t anyone’s lackey! >> Oh yes. And you are so-o-o-o-o together! If you didn’t go off on these >> rants aginst someone you DON’T believe in, you would be taken much more >> seriously. Are you this big a loon in real life? It could be the key to >> your other problems… >First off i was simply playing the devil’s advocate when i made said remark. IF >there was a God i wouldn’t bow b4 him due to political and philosphical differences. >U see i was just playing a game of "what IF . . . "
Hate to burst your bubble, good buddy, but it sure as hell didn’t sound to me like you were playing "devil’s advocate." Sounded like an out-and-out attack on the single deity of Don’s religion. I’ll admit that I’m a Catholic, too, though not a horribly devout one — you know, the ol’ "go to church on Christmas and Easter" deal. I even tend to take a somewhat deistic view on God. But your remarks, I must admit, were a bit insulting to me, as well. >i’d like to do a lil’ poll of the readers here on a.s.s. On Thursday Don wrote: >> I am saying that women want to be loved more than they want >> to have sex. Men, on the other hand, could have sex with women they >> don’t even KNOW, let alone love. >Men how many of U could have sex with a woman U didn’t even know????
I can’t say for certain, never having had the opportunity, but if you have to have an answer, I suppose I’d say that yes, I could. Which is not to say that I’m not interested in a more meaningful relationship — not at all. >Just think if >Don had wrote: "Women could have sex with men they don’t even KNOW, let alone >love."
I suppose a number of them could. Women have fantasies, too, you know. >Just think of the uproar that would cause. Men, stand up for yourselves and >let Don know U know longer wish to hear his sexist brand of male-bashing!
Er…Kris, I think you’re overreacting just a tad. Go listen to "Mother Nature’s Son" for a while till you’ve calmed down. :) >i’m curious Don. What R your opinions on homosexuality????
With all due respect, what difference does it make? >Some of my Christian >friends R open-minded enough to accept and RESPECT homosexuals. Or R U one of these >Christains who R sticklers for scriptures and thus denounce homosexuality as a >"sin".
Would that somehow affect his right to be a presence on this newsgroup, or the quality or validity of his posts? -Will — -= "Soul Brother #1" =- | Visit the Asylum at "All you need is love." | www.ews.uiuc.edu/~grzanich! -John Lennon | Contains no MSG!
Response:
"Don, the window cleaner" <windowclea…@hotmail.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In the interest of raising the level of discussion from invective to >debate, I’d like to respond to some of the heat I’ve been taking. I’ll >start with "Vote YES on Prop. 1." It was a misjudgement on my part to >presume that everyone would see the humor in that post. I should have >at least used the universal symbol for "just kidding," the ubiquitous >smiley. 
>Ironically, the votes on Prop. 1 seem to be unanimously in favor of >excoriating people publicly, as opposed to doing it privately via email. >:P >The other thing I want to mention is the accusation that has been >leveled at me, that I’m not supportive of the people who come here to >vent. I just happen to think it is counterproductive to agree, even >tacitly, with the very self-centeredness that causes most of the >problems I see in the writings of such individuals. It could be that >some of you are just PLAYING at being a support group. I haven’t been a >member of AA, but I have friends who have been, and the effective groups >are pretty ruthless with people who haven’t faced up to their >responsibility for their actions.
I agree whole-heartedly. >I know I am considered something of an unschooled bumpkin by some of the >regulars here. And it’s true that I am *only* a high school graduate and >a window cleaner. But I have a ton of miles on me on the road to REAL >recovery. What I’ve done has actually worked, and I’m starting to think >that this ticks some of you off.
Yep. It’s the people who have made improvements who should be yelling, not the people who don’t want help. >Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to >express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, however, >because I don’t wanna cause you any grief… >DTWC
———————————————————————— Chris Harrison – Somewhere having fun NLP Master Practitioner and Design Human Engineer ch…@nervsys.demon.co.uk http://www.nervsys.demon.co.uk
Response:
Don, the window cleaner wrote: > > If U feel strongly enough to excoriate someone then by all means do it in > > public. For instance i’ve recently had a coward send me a scalding private > > e-mail accussing me of among other things being a "big loon" with a "warped > > world view". If said person had even an ounce of courage in his body he would > > post these remarks on a.s.s. > Kris, in REAL-LIFE, it is thought to be polite to privately pull someone > aside who is making a fool of himself and tell him so. This is to keep > the embarrassment of the fool down to a minimum. But, as usual, you are > making the rules as you go along.
Excuses, excuses!!! Why don’t U just admit U were too much of a coward to confront me in public? U didn’t want to feel the wrath of a.s.s.’s open-minded and liberal posters, did U Don? There is no use making up excuses i understand why U would want to send me insults privately. After all, it would be very unbecoming and sully your reputation to attack an innocent and defenseless kid like me in public. Personally i only see one fool here. And for those of U like Don who can’t read between the lines it sure as hell ain’t me! > I think it is funny that you did not > include the context in which I called you a big loon, including your > loony remarks. Now, that is cowardly. And dishonest.
The reason i didn’t include the context of said remarks was to protect the anonymity of the person who e-mailed me. i felt it would be poor netiquette to post a private e-mail on the NG. However since U have admitted to making the offending remarks and have referred to me as both "cowardly" and "dishonest" i shall breach netiquette in order to show the context of said remarks: >>Yeah why in the world would i wanna bow before an ego-mad dictator like God? > Behold, the raging speck… >> If he wants his massive ego gratified i suggest he look elsewhere becaue i >> ain’t anyone’s lackey! > Oh yes. And you are so-o-o-o-o together! If you didn’t go off on these > rants aginst someone you DON’T believe in, you would be taken much more > seriously. Are you this big a loon in real life? It could be the key to > your other problems…
First off i was simply playing the devil’s advocate when i made said remark. IF there was a God i wouldn’t bow b4 him due to political and philosphical differences. U see i was just playing a game of "what IF . . . " Kris belched forth: >> No wonder your wife plays hard to get Don, if she doesn’t U’ll call her a
*whore*! >You love reading your warped worldview into my posts. A whore doesn’t >care about WHO she goes to bed with. It has nothing to do with pleasure. >> Quite frankly i find your views on the opposite sex to be quite barbaric to say the >> least. If a woman enjoys sex she’s a *whore*? Hello???? Anybody home???? > Your prejudices are quite pathetic. If we were practicioners of voodoo > who hooked jumper cables up to our intimate parts for sexual thrills, > you’d say, "who am I to judge?" Because I am a Christian, you think I am > a Victorian prude. You an only WISH that on me…
No the reason i think you’re a Victorian prude is because of your posts, not your religious beliefs. (snip) >> Seduction games R demeaning to both sexes >No. They are GREAT FUN. We both enjoy it.
i’m curious. What kinda seduction games do U play? B4 i forsake sex to keep my best friend, i’d put on a Fleetwood Mac video to get us both in the mood. Then i’d put my arm around my lover, we’d make out on the couch then slip into the bedroom. What do Ur seduction games consist of? (snip) >> Quite frankly i think women R just as horny as us men. But the reason so many of them >> "withhold the goodies" is > because they have been exposed to losers like you who think they are > mere sperm recepticals.
Totally uncalled for Don! i see U obviously lack the maturity to debate me intelligently so U must resort to childish name-calling and taunts. Shame on U!!! And to think you’re in your 40s. Age is definitely NOT a sign of maturity in your case. > And BTW, do I really write opinions that I expect to > be popular?? I know I am breaking new ground in some people’s minds. I > have frequently said that the shy man’s dilemma with women is that he > wants to go tooo far, too fast, thus putting himself under undo pressure > to perform. This is because we NATURALLY look at women as sex objects, > and it is something we must rise above if we want to relate to them > comfortably.
i’m not going to debate whether you’re right or wrong Don HOWEVER i just want to remind U that women treat us men as sex objects too! This is something that women need to overcome as well if they wish to relate to men. Remember ladies, we men have more to offer than just a stud service. We have minds and feelings too. B4 U try to get in our pants just let us know U care about us. We’re not all sluts like some people such as Don would have U believe! i’d like to do a lil’ poll of the readers here on a.s.s. On Thursday Don wrote: > I am saying that women want to be loved more than they want > to have sex. Men, on the other hand, could have sex with women they > don’t even KNOW, let alone love.
Men how many of U could have sex with a woman U didn’t even know???? Just think if Don had wrote: "Women could have sex with men they don’t even KNOW, let alone
love." Just think of the uproar that would cause. Men, stand up for yourselves and let Don know U know longer wish to hear his sexist brand of male-bashing! > > i hate to nit-pick but in the future Don could U please say MOTAS out of > > respect for the gay community? It’s quite possible that Larld is gay and > > has no interest in meeting a person of the opposite sex. i think it shows > > blatant disrespect on your part to just automatically assume everyone is > > heterosexual! > > Well guess what? Don said "no" to my polite request. I’ve rarely seen such > > blatant and UNAPOLOGETIC homophobia as i have from Don. > OH MYYYY! I have dared to oppose the thought police!! I have not bowed > my knee to political correctness!! Whoa is me!! I am undone!!! Fine me…
Why U rude *(&^$($*^(^^*(#! Have U no manners??? This is not a case of "political correctness" but of respect for your fellow human beings. Unfortunately i see U R incapable of even the slightest courtesy . . . i’m curious Don. What R your opinions on homosexuality???? Some of my Christian friends R open-minded enough to accept and RESPECT homosexuals. Or R U one of these Christains who R sticklers for scriptures and thus denounce homosexuality as a "sin". > > And i’d like to take this opportunity to thank FOK’s (Friends of Kris). i’ve > > had a # of gay readers here on a.s.s. thank me for standing up for the gay > > community not to mention a # of women support my outspoken feminist stands. > > Plus i’ve also gained the support of forward-thinking heterosexual men as > > well. I won’t name U, however, because i’m afraid right-wing bible-thumping > > hate mongerers will cowardly fill your e-mailboxes with hate mail like they > > have me! > Oh yes, and there are just zillions of us here!!! BTW, you just got done > calling your supporters COWARDS because they sent their support > PRIVATELY!!! Can’t you see how incredibly biased you are?? Obviously, > the church has not cornered the market on hypocracy…
If U would have actually read my post i said it is cowardly to EXCORIATE people privately, not support them privately. Again U prove yourself incapable of debating me intelligently so U must put words in my mouth. How mature! > Feminism certainly did achieve some important goals that have forced men > to take women more seriously. However, the movement seems to have been > taken over by man-hating maniacs in recent years that want to blot out > the things that have been good about being a woman for thousands of > years. Women want to be treated right in the home as well as the > workplace. This is something you know nothing about…
Man-hating maniacs? The only man-hating maniac i see here is U Don. i’m still hurt by your remark that we men could have sex with a COMPLETE stranger. ~ Love, Kris They showed you a statue and told you to pray They built you a temple and locked you away But they never told you the price that you pay For things that you might have done….. Only the good die young -Billy Joel
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Kris, obviously stung by Don’s unwillingness to nod at everything he says, wrote: > If U feel strongly enough to excoriate someone then by all means do it in > public. For instance i’ve recently had a coward send me a scalding private > e-mail accussing me of among other things being a "big loon" with a "warped > world view". If said person had even an ounce of courage in his body he would > post these remarks on a.s.s.
Kris, in REAL-LIFE, it is thought to be polite to privately pull someone aside who is making a fool of himself and tell him so. This is to keep the embarrassment of the fool down to a minimum. But, as usual, you are making the rules as you go along. I think it is funny that you did not include the context in which I called you a big loon, including your loony remarks. Now, that is cowardly. And dishonest. > Unfortunately this coward doesn’t wish to show > his true colors to the NG. Guess he doesn’t have much faith in his convictions > and opinions, does he? Or maybe he’s just afraid of the flaming he’ll no doubt > take if his backwards views become public knowledge. Personally i don’t blame > him. If i were a homophobic, misogynistic insult-hurler like this guy i > wouldn’t want the entire NG finding out either!
Do you ever listen to yourself? You have to reach into yur bag of new, invented insults to find things I’ve done wrong. My, what big words you use to say nothing! And BTW, do I really write opinions that I expect to be popular?? I know I am breaking new ground in some people’s minds. I have frequently said that the shy man’s dilemma with women is that he wants to go tooo far, too fast, thus putting himself under undo pressure to perform. This is because we NATURALLY look at women as sex objects, and it is something we must rise above if we want to relate to them comfortably. > i hate to nit-pick but in the future Don could U please say MOTAS out of > respect for the gay community? It’s quite possible that Larld is gay and > has no interest in meeting a person of the opposite sex. i think it shows > blatant disrespect on your part to just automatically assume everyone is > heterosexual! > Well guess what? Don said "no" to my polite request. I’ve rarely seen such > blatant and UNAPOLOGETIC homophobia as i have from Don.
OH MYYYY! I have dared to oppose the thought police!! I have not bowed my knee to political correctness!! Whoa is me!! I am undone!!! Fine me… > And i’d like to take this opportunity to thank FOK’s (Friends of Kris). i’ve > had a # of gay readers here on a.s.s. thank me for standing up for the gay > community not to mention a # of women support my outspoken feminist stands. > Plus i’ve also gained the support of forward-thinking heterosexual men as > well. I won’t name U, however, because i’m afraid right-wing bible-thumping > hate mongerers will cowardly fill your e-mailboxes with hate mail like they > have me!
Oh yes, and there are just zillions of us here!!! BTW, you just got done calling your supporters COWARDS because they sent their support PRIVATELY!!! Can’t you see how incredibly biased you are?? Obviously, the church has not cornered the market on hypocracy… Feminism certainly did achieve some important goals that have forced men to take women more seriously. However, the movement seems to have been taken over by man-hating maniacs in recent years that want to blot out the things that have been good about being a woman for thousands of years. Women want to be treated right in the home as well as the workplace. This is something you know nothing about… DTWC
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I’ve been lurking for quite some time here, and posting every now and then, and Kris, quite frankly I must say your shit-picking attitude is disgusting. You may not like all or even any of what Don the window cleaner has to say but at least he attempts to offer constructive, practical advice for overcoming shyness. Notice I said attempts, I don’t think all of his ideas are usefull for everyone, but I do think some of them may be usefull for some people. I can’t recall you doing anything but bitching and moaning about how unfair the world is and how hopeless it is to even try because of your mental problems. That’s fine, if you care to wallow in self pity, I really couldn’t give a fuck. But to react with such animosity when someone offers advice you don’t agree with is offensive to those who want to at least attempt to change themselves. I personally am an atheist, but i respect other peoples’ religious beliefs. You claim to do the same, but I have my doubts. Such as the big issue made over Don’s post when he used the term MOTOS instead of MOTAS, perhaps Don’s religious beliefs prevent him from approving of that lifestyle. while I don’t agree with him on that point, I don’t see him trying to shove his disapproval in our faces (in fact I am just conjecturing on that point, i don’t really know or care to know Don’s beliefs). The point is that I hardly think his using the term MOTOS is offensive enough to warrant distracting posts taking away from his good intentions to offer advice (good or bad). so i recommend politely ignoring him and setting a good example yourself. Shit picking over that just makes people want to use the term MOTOS out of spite. well that was my rant. I say don should continue posting his advice, and i will pick and choose what i think is valuable and applicable. I get more out of even bad constructive advice than i do from bitching and moaning.
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(posted and e-mailed due to fallibility of my newserver) In article <34F8E312.4…@hotmail.com>, windowclea…@hotmail.com wrote: > In the interest of raising the level of discussion from invective to > debate, I’d like to respond to some of the heat I’ve been taking. I’ll > start with "Vote YES on Prop. 1." It was a misjudgement on my part to > presume that everyone would see the humor in that post. I should have > at least used the universal symbol for "just kidding," the ubiquitous > smiley.
The reason none of us saw the "humor" in your post is because–get this–it WASN’T funny! > Ironically, the votes on Prop. 1 seem to be unanimously in favor of > excoriating people publicly, as opposed to doing it privately via email. > 
If U feel strongly enough to excoriate someone then by all means do it in public. For instance i’ve recently had a coward send me a scalding private e-mail accussing me of among other things being a "big loon" with a "warped world view". If said person had even an ounce of courage in his body he would post these remarks on a.s.s. Unfortunately this coward doesn’t wish to show his true colors to the NG. Guess he doesn’t have much faith in his convictions and opinions, does he? Or maybe he’s just afraid of the flaming he’ll no doubt take if his backwards views become public knowledge. Personally i don’t blame him. If i were a homophobic, misogynistic insult-hurler like this guy i wouldn’t want the entire NG finding out either! > I know I am considered something of an unschooled bumpkin by some of the > regulars here. And it’s true that I am *only* a high school graduate and > a window cleaner. But I have a ton of miles on me on the road to REAL > recovery. What I’ve done has actually worked, and I’m starting to think > that this ticks some of you off.
Actually what ticks us off are your barbaric views on women not to mention your homophobia. For instance today in the "Shy As Hell" thread i made the following polite request of Don: i hate to nit-pick but in the future Don could U please say MOTAS out of respect for the gay community? It’s quite possible that Larld is gay and has no interest in meeting a person of the opposite sex. i think it shows blatant disrespect on your part to just automatically assume everyone is heterosexual! Well guess what? Don said "no" to my polite request. I’ve rarely seen such blatant and UNAPOLOGETIC homophobia as i have from Don. > Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to > express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, however, > because I don’t wanna cause you any grief…
And i’d like to take this opportunity to thank FOK’s (Friends of Kris). i’ve had a # of gay readers here on a.s.s. thank me for standing up for the gay community not to mention a # of women support my outspoken feminist stands. Plus i’ve also gained the support of forward-thinking heterosexual men as well. I won’t name U, however, because i’m afraid right-wing bible-thumping hate mongerers will cowardly fill your e-mailboxes with hate mail like they have me! Love, Kris They showed you a statue and told you to pray They built you a temple and locked you away But they never told you the price that you pay For things that you might have done….. Only the good die young -Billy Joel —–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
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In article <6dj1lf$i0…@twwells.com>, anon-16…@anon.twwells.com (JerryO) wrote: > see the other post I wrote to Sylvain. Netiquette (and I think even > regular typewritting/word processor) suggest tat you can use *this* to > highlight *anything* you wish to highlight.
Yes, putting asterisks around a word is roughly equivalent to italicizing it or putting it in bold face. When I use all caps, I usually am a bit peeved or frustrated. Many other people seem to use all caps in a similar way. (The other common usage of all caps is in advertizing.) Eric Pepke | Everyone’s dream Supercomputer Computations Research Institute | Is to unstep Florida State University | The butterfly. pe…@scri.fsu.edu | -EP
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On 04-Mar-98 07:35:12, JerryO wrote : >You know, netiquette says that capitalizing equals to shouting. Even if >you simply mean to make a accent the word to make the point clearer, to me >in terms of netiquette, you’re shouting. Try putting what you write into >actual sounding words, and really shout the ones you capitalize. >Maybe I’m more sensitive about netiquette, or maybe I happen to voice my >opinions (as opposed to others who just let t pass by), but netiquette is >netiquette, even if to you it might be a silly set of rules of internet >society. U should respect it.
I do the same thing on other news groups and mailing lists, and have had no complaints. As regards Netiquette, like all rules and regulations, it needs to be FLEXIBLE. >+++++++++++++++++++++ > v > /()-T >’94 Kawasaki ZX6E O ^o >+++++++++++++++++++++
Regards. Sylvain Van der Walde. swa…@swalde.u-net.com
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see the other post I wrote to Sylvain. Netiquette (and I think even regular typewritting/word processor) suggest tat you can use *this* to highlight *anything* you wish to highlight. Regardless, netiquette saying that capitalizing equals to shouting, feel free to adopt any other way except one that’s already installed… Then again, Kris, if you’re going to hameer me with your New English Order, skip it. I’m *not* gonna get mightily pissed off if you all decide to stick to your own *unsociably* ways -yes, because you’re not following the suggestions so we can understand each other better- it’s up to you to decide if you’re really right to impose your own set of rules as you see fit or try to get along with people, even with tiny rules such as these. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Kris wrote: > JerryO wrote: > > Those were praise? forgive me then. I thought you were being ironic. > > I am curious why do you feel the need to CAPITALIZE key words. We can > > understand it just fine without THEM. > When you’re talking in public you can simply change your intonation to denote the > importance of a word however writing limits U in this regard. Thus capitalizing > key words is the most tactful way to highlight the importance of said word. > Love, > Kris > They showed you a statue and told you to pray > They built you a temple and locked you away > But they never told you the price that you pay > For things that you might have done….. > Only the good die young > -Billy Joel
+++++++++++++++++++++ v /()-T ‘94 Kawasaki ZX6E O ^o +++++++++++++++++++++ — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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JerryO wrote: > Those were praise? forgive me then. I thought you were being ironic. > I am curious why do you feel the need to CAPITALIZE key words. We can > understand it just fine without THEM.
When you’re talking in public you can simply change your intonation to denote the importance of a word however writing limits U in this regard. Thus capitalizing key words is the most tactful way to highlight the importance of said word. Love, Kris They showed you a statue and told you to pray They built you a temple and locked you away But they never told you the price that you pay For things that you might have done….. Only the good die young -Billy Joel
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On 3 Mar 1998, Sylvain Van der Walde wrote: > On 03-Mar-98 04:30:09, JerryO wrote : > >Those were praise? forgive me then. I thought you were being ironic. > I am a basically decent person, if allowed to be, JerryO. I am rarely > (certainly not in this group) ironic, sarcastic, facetious. > >I am curious why do you feel the need to CAPITALIZE key words. We can > >understand it just fine without THEM. > Look at who’s critisizing NOW. You have your ways, I have mine.
You know, netiquette says that capitalizing equals to shouting. Even if you simply mean to make a accent the word to make the point clearer, to me in terms of netiquette, you’re shouting. Try putting what you write into actual sounding words, and really shout the ones you capitalize. Maybe I’m more sensitive about netiquette, or maybe I happen to voice my opinions (as opposed to others who just let t pass by), but netiquette is netiquette, even if to you it might be a silly set of rules of internet society. U should respect it. +++++++++++++++++++++ v /()-T ‘94 Kawasaki ZX6E O ^o +++++++++++++++++++++ — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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On 03-Mar-98 04:30:09, JerryO wrote : >Those were praise? forgive me then. I thought you were being ironic.
I am a basically decent person, if allowed to be, JerryO. I am rarely (certainly not in this group) ironic, sarcastic, facetious. >I am curious why do you feel the need to CAPITALIZE key words. We can >understand it just fine without THEM.
Look at who’s critisizing NOW. You have your ways, I have mine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On 3 Mar 1998, Sylvain Van der Walde wrote: >> On 02-Mar-98 16:45:06, JerryO wrote : >> >On 1 Mar 1998, Sylvain Van der Walde wrote: >> >I get ticked off by your attitude, Sylvain. You do NOTHING but criticize. >> >Why dont you do something CREATIVE for a change? >> Hello JerryO. I believe that my criticisms are constructive; but I do >> ALSO give praise (see below). WHAT creative things would you like me to do? >> >> >Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to >> >> >express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, >> >> >however, because I don’t wanna cause you any grief… >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> Loyalty is a FINE thing. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >DTWC >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> You HAVE cleared the air, Don. Good for you. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Regards. Sylvain Van der Walde. swa…@swalde.u-net.com
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On 01-Mar-98 04:24:51, Don, the window cleaner wrote : >In the interest of raising the level of discussion from invective to >debate, I’d like to respond to some of the heat I’ve been taking. I’ll >start with "Vote YES on Prop. 1." It was a misjudgement on my part to >presume that everyone would see the humor in that post. I should have >at least used the universal symbol for "just kidding," the ubiquitous >smiley.
Hooray! >Ironically, the votes on Prop. 1 seem to be unanimously in favor of >excoriating people publicly, as opposed to doing it privately via email. >:P
Well, this IS a group, after all. >The other thing I want to mention is the accusation that has been >leveled at me, that I’m not supportive of the people who come here to >vent. I just happen to think it is counterproductive to agree, even >tacitly, with the very self-centeredness that causes most of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ problems I see in the writings of such individuals. Charity begins at home. >some of you are just PLAYING at being a support group. I haven’t been a >member of AA, but I have friends who have been, and the effective groups >are pretty ruthless with people who haven’t faced up to their >responsibility for their actions.
Horses for courses. This group is for shy people, not for alcoholics. >I know I am considered something of an unschooled bumpkin by some of the >regulars here. And it’s true that I am *only* a high school graduate and >a window cleaner. But I have a ton of miles on me on the road to REAL >recovery. What I’ve done has actually worked, and I’m starting to think >that this ticks some of you off.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You are insulting our intelligence (speaking for myself and kindred spirits). Just a newcomer’s view. >Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to >express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, however, >because I don’t wanna cause you any grief…
Loyalty is a FINE thing. >DTWC
You HAVE cleared the air, Don. Good for you. Regards. Sylvain Van der Walde. swa…@swalde.u-net.com
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In the interest of raising the level of discussion from invective to debate, I’d like to respond to some of the heat I’ve been taking. I’ll start with "Vote YES on Prop. 1." It was a misjudgement on my part to presume that everyone would see the humor in that post. I should have at least used the universal symbol for "just kidding," the ubiquitous smiley. Ironically, the votes on Prop. 1 seem to be unanimously in favor of excoriating people publicly, as opposed to doing it privately via email. The other thing I want to mention is the accusation that has been leveled at me, that I’m not supportive of the people who come here to vent. I just happen to think it is counterproductive to agree, even tacitly, with the very self-centeredness that causes most of the problems I see in the writings of such individuals. It could be that some of you are just PLAYING at being a support group. I haven’t been a member of AA, but I have friends who have been, and the effective groups are pretty ruthless with people who haven’t faced up to their responsibility for their actions. I know I am considered something of an unschooled bumpkin by some of the regulars here. And it’s true that I am *only* a high school graduate and a window cleaner. But I have a ton of miles on me on the road to REAL recovery. What I’ve done has actually worked, and I’m starting to think that this ticks some of you off. Lastly, I wanna thank you FOD’s (Friends Of Don) who have emailed me to express your kind thoughts and encouragement. I won’t name you, however, because I don’t wanna cause you any grief… DTWC
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