Big Brothers/Sisters encourages single familyhood?

Question:

| |However, I grew up in such a "villiage" … |a neighborhood where people were not afraid to reach out to the kids. |That includes the grandmotherly types with their cookies and milk and |interesting stories, the other stay-at-home mothers running play |sessions and cub scouts, the neighborhood fathers who taught sports and |other activities my own father did not know (yes, I grew up in a two |parent household) and my many relatives that added a great deal to what |my well-meaning but harried parents had failed to do. | |Put your thinking cap on. Why is it that you find so few neighborhoods like |the above today (or none). Because mom and dad are both at work, or in the |case of single parent families just mom, and no one is home to create the |neighborhood you’re talking about. | |This has been a huge change in American culture. Such "villages" do not |come into existence by themselves. In order to have the activities |described above you need people who are willing to stay at home, get to know |each the neighbors, and who will put the time into doing the things you’re |descrbing. | |And few people, let’s face it, are willing to do that today. Hillary |Clinton wasn’t a soccer mom and wouldn’t be surprised if she hasn’t |connected these two things (ie. single parenthood and two career families |means no one is building the village it takes to raise a child). | |Glad you have great memories but if you went back to your old neighborhood |what do you think you would find? | Well said KD! Oddly enough the time when there was even remotely like such a "village" as Floridanewbie suggests – was a time when Marriage and two parents families were much more the "norm" than they are today, that was also a time when most people tended to stay within the communities they were brought up within – those times are now LONG gone – such "nurturing" "Villages" are now very rare or simply do not exist anymore and feminism can some "credit" for that decline. The Village that Hilary (do as I say and not as I do!) Clinton must be talking about can only be as a metaphor for sanctioning one group of people being legitimatley allowed to be parasitic off the rest (i.e. keep throwing more and more tax dollars at the problem until it goes away!)- what a STUPID Bitch she is – because even she must really know that welfare kids and those brought up in one parent families have the WORST record in terms of Drug abuse,crime,suicide and mental problems – but this does not matter to such fucked up women with all their "values" cross-wired – after all female "empowerment" is the most important thing – some "empowerment" though isn’t it when more and more men are rapidly becoming totally disenchanted with the option of marriage and more and more women are having to depend on the state in order to bring up their kids!! | |– Phil (Politically Incorrect And Proud Of It)

Response:

Oh pishaw. The only thing keeping my ex away from his daughter is his preoccupation with other things in his life. I have got to look up misandrist. Is that real? Pat – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John Cooley wrote, among other things: Something like Big Brothers lessens the emotional kid’s emotional need to have dad in their lives because there’s another adult male paying attention, taking them out, doing ‘guy stuff’ with them. Over time, bio-dad isn’t missed that much; or if he doesn’t compare well to the Big Brother and/or mom’s new boyfriend, dad finds he’s even more disposible. That piece of work was so full of faulty logic that I don’t even know where to begin picking it apart. I’ve heard you place blame for a father’s absence everywhere but with the dad, but this takes the cake. What takes the cake is your own misandrist bias. The numbers of fathers forced away from their families and children…many times by the mother, FAR exceeds those that just walk away. Of course there are those dads that walk away. But you and your kind minimize the very real pain that many fathers suffer by being removed from their families and their children. How would YOU like to be reduced to a nothing more than a visitor to your kids? Every other weekend and maybe a couple of weeks in the summer. If you think most fathers in that situation enjoy it, you are full of crap. Big Brothers exists because the dads were *already gone.* It’s not a Yea…gone by the mothers own choice, most times. chicken and egg thing (Do dads leave because BB exists or does BB exist because dads aren’t around? Sounds kind of silly, doesn’t it?) As does your reply. By the way, your "dads are disposable" mantra is beginning to sound And your misandrist bullshit is just that also… ridiculous in a newsgroup full of women who, by are large, work very, very hard to maintain working relationships with their exes and who are Yea…right! *very* quick to reality check the misguided souls who come here thing that anything less than that is acceptable. Why dont you do a reality check, yourself! mrx

Response:

Who are you referring to? The women who regularly post here seem to agree that having a dad is optional and it makes no difference if a woman chooses to have children with no father in their lives. There’s choosing this lifestyle and then there’s making the best of what you’ve got. I don’t think anyone has a problem with the second but the two aren’t the same.

The women here? Where? You mean in soc.men? Or perhaps alt.support.divorce? Or are you talking alt.support.single-parents? Define women where and you might have a point to make. As for women "here" (a.s.s-p)….perhaps you would do well to read Re: single parent (father) by choice – looking for ideas — Char Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=BPQ552 http://www.travelzoo.com/ My pages: http://millennium.fortunecity.com/sweetvalley/133/ http://www.techtrek.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/5946/index.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/9362/index.html

Response:

The numbers of fathers forced away from their families and children…many times by the mother, FAR exceeds those that just walk away.

I’ve heard this claim often. Is it true? Can anybody prove (or disprove) it? Does anybody know of any research on this issue? I’d love to see some citations. David Throop

Response:

Do some people purposely miss the point of Big Brothers/Big Sisters? This is a program designed to help the kids when they have a male or a female role model missing in their lives. Be it divorce, death, or permanent disability. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John Cooley wrote, among other things: Something like Big Brothers lessens the emotional kid’s emotional need to have dad in their lives because there’s another adult male paying attention, taking them out, doing ‘guy stuff’ with them. Over time, bio-dad isn’t missed that much; or if he doesn’t compare well to the Big Brother and/or mom’s new boyfriend, dad finds he’s even more disposible. That piece of work was so full of faulty logic that I don’t even know where to begin picking it apart. I’ve heard you place blame for a father’s absence everywhere but with the dad, but this takes the cake. What takes the cake is your own misandrist bias. The numbers of fathers forced away from their families and children…many times by the mother, FAR exceeds those that just walk away. Of course there are those dads that walk away. But you and your kind minimize the very real pain that many fathers suffer by being removed from their families and their children. How would YOU like to be reduced to a nothing more than a visitor to your kids? Every other weekend and maybe a couple of weeks in the summer. If you think most fathers in that situation enjoy it, you are full of crap. Big Brothers exists because the dads were *already gone.* It’s not a Yea…gone by the mothers own choice, most times. chicken and egg thing (Do dads leave because BB exists or does BB exist because dads aren’t around? Sounds kind of silly, doesn’t it?) As does your reply. By the way, your "dads are disposable" mantra is beginning to sound And your misandrist bullshit is just that also… ridiculous in a newsgroup full of women who, by are large, work very, very hard to maintain working relationships with their exes and who are Yea…right! *very* quick to reality check the misguided souls who come here thing that anything less than that is acceptable. Why dont you do a reality check, yourself! mrx

– Char Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=BPQ552 http://www.travelzoo.com/ My pages: http://millennium.fortunecity.com/sweetvalley/133/ http://www.techtrek.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/5946/index.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/9362/index.html

Response:

The problem we’re seeing here is caused by the cross-posting. I happen to know that Robbin is talking about the majority of the posters, male and female, in alt.support.single-parents. I have the distinct impression that KD is from alt.support.divorce. These two groups have vastly different angles of approach for their discussion topics.

Oh, thanks for the correction! Not even! I’m in that ghetto of nastiness known as soc.men, which might be justly called "Men who hate feminists and the women who hate them" (not sure what I’m doing in that company but what can you do). I’ve never checked out alt.support.single-parents or alt.support.divorce and suspect the tone of both groups is different. So yeah, my comments were off base, were directed at soc.men, and really, I suspect the other two groups are more constructive. So my apologies.

Response:

Who are you referring to? The women who regularly post here seem to agree that having a dad is optional and it makes no difference if a woman chooses to have children with no father in their lives. Actually, the women who *regularly* post here understand the importance of having both mom and dad do the actual parenting, and they work really hard to maintain working relationships with their exes. If you would really pay attention to what happens in this gorup, you would see how the "dad is optional" poster gets reality checked when trying to gain support here.

Oh really. I’ll keep this in mind and will collect a few quotes over the next week. And if I’m wrong I’ll say as much.

Response:

Who are you referring to? The women who regularly post here seem to agree that having a dad is optional and it makes no difference if a woman chooses to have children with no father in their lives.

Actually, the women who *regularly* post here understand the importance of having both mom and dad do the actual parenting, and they work really hard to maintain working relationships with their exes. If you would really pay attention to what happens in this gorup, you would see how the "dad is optional" poster gets reality checked when trying to gain support here. — Robbin Spoonamore Hubbard http://php.indiana.edu/~rmhubbar "There are many ways to measure success, not the least of which is the way your child describes you to a friend." - Unknown –

Response:

Who are you referring to? The women who regularly post here seem to agree that having a dad is optional and it makes no difference if a woman chooses to have children with no father in their lives. Actually, the women who *regularly* post here understand the importance of having both mom and dad do the actual parenting, and they work really hard to maintain working relationships with their exes. If you would really pay attention to what happens in this gorup, you would see how the "dad is optional" poster gets reality checked when trying to gain support here.

Response:

What takes the cake is your own misandrist bias. The numbers of fathers forced away from their families and children…many times by the mother, FAR exceeds those that just walk away. Of course there are those dads that walk away. But you and your kind minimize the very real pain that many fathers suffer by being removed from their families and their children. How would YOU like to be reduced to a nothing more than a visitor to your kids? Every other weekend and maybe a couple of weeks in the summer. If you think most fathers in that situation enjoy it, you are full of crap.

Placing responsibility where responsibility lies makes me biased? Come on, no one can *make* another person walk away from their children – male or female – that parent does the walking of his or her own choosing. Maybe they do it because they are hurt or angry, but they still *choose* it nonetheless. I’ve heard Mr. Cooley attempt to justify a father’s walking away on the grounds that seeing his children on weekend is just too painful. THAT is the BS in this scenario. Please understand that I am not minimizing the pain that men feel when they are reduced to being weekend visitors, but I also know that if a judge told me I could only see my kids on weekends, I sure as h-ll would NOT use that as an excuse to bail out altogether! Again, Big Brothers is there to help provide male role models where there are *none.* If you believe their existence has anything to do with creating fatherless homes, you’ve got your head in the sand. — Robbin Spoonamore Hubbard http://php.indiana.edu/~rmhubbar "There are many ways to measure success, not the least of which is the way your child describes you to a friend." - Unknown –

Response:

John Cooley wrote, among other things: By the way, your "dads are disposable" mantra is beginning to sound ridiculous in a newsgroup full of women who, by are large, work very, very hard to maintain working relationships with their exes and who are *very* quick to reality check the misguided souls who come here thing that anything less than that is acceptable.

Who are you referring to? The women who regularly post here seem to agree that having a dad is optional and it makes no difference if a woman chooses to have children with no father in their lives. There’s choosing this lifestyle and then there’s making the best of what you’ve got. I don’t think anyone has a problem with the second but the two aren’t the same.

Response:

Big Brothers/sisters makes it very clear right up front that they are NOT to be used as babysitters. Also, the kid has to be at least 8 years old before they can get involved in the program. It’s a great way to get a same sex influence in your childs life, but it’s not a way to get some help taking care of the kids.

I understand the intent; I’m just saying the side-effect is that it enables single mothers to raise kids without dads if you really look at it. No, this side-effect isn’t intentional, but it exists nonetheless. – John

Response:

John Cooley wrote, among other things: Something like Big Brothers lessens the emotional kid’s emotional need to have dad in their lives because there’s another adult male paying attention, taking them out, doing ‘guy stuff’ with them. Over time, bio-dad isn’t missed that much; or if he doesn’t compare well to the Big Brother and/or mom’s new boyfriend, dad finds he’s even more disposible.

That piece of work was so full of faulty logic that I don’t even know where to begin picking it apart. I’ve heard you place blame for a father’s absence everywhere but with the dad, but this takes the cake. Big Brothers exists because the dads were *already gone.* It’s not a chicken and egg thing (Do dads leave because BB exists or does BB exist because dads aren’t around? Sounds kind of silly, doesn’t it?) By the way, your "dads are disposable" mantra is beginning to sound ridiculous in a newsgroup full of women who, by are large, work very, very hard to maintain working relationships with their exes and who are *very* quick to reality check the misguided souls who come here thing that anything less than that is acceptable. — Robbin Spoonamore Hubbard http://php.indiana.edu/~rmhubbar "There are many ways to measure success, not the least of which is the way your child describes you to a friend." - Unknown –

Response:

It takes a village – remember?

Some of use are not socialist-big-brother type democrats like Hillary Clinton.

Response:

I have a friend who will mind my children as I will hers. Child care is free that way. I also have two sitters just in case. A good support system is important for anyone with children. It is not necessary to find a man for the purpose of getting someone to help with the children. There are organizations that have been mentioned here that are also helpful. Big Brothers/Sisters is one. Interesting. You’re saying Big Brother / Big Sisters actually encourages the creation of single parent families by making them viable? – John

Response:

As Big Brother – I take extreme exception to the thoughts that our organization encourages single parent families. We give kids with only one parent the opportunity to have a good adult role model in their life of the same sex. We are not daycare, nor are we expected to help in the day to day care of the kids we work with. One of the things I had to turn my little’s mom down on was taking him to the dentist – that is not my responsiility as I am not his parent. Who got the idea that we encourage single parent families anywyay? I am sure my little and his mom would love nothing better to be a whole nuclear family. Just my $.02. –*Rob

Response:

Interesting. You’re saying Big Brother / Big Sisters actually encourages the creation of single parent families by making them viable?

That’s right, dude. A bunch of man-hating, money-grubbing meanies were sitting around one thinking about what they could do to *encourage* the creation of single parent families, when one of them popped up said, "I know! Let’s form Big Brothers/Big Sisters!" And you know? It must’ve taken off, because *look* at how many of us there are! Gawd, you’re an idiot. — Robbin Spoonamore Hubbard http://php.indiana.edu/~rmhubbar "There are many ways to measure success, not the least of which is the way your child describes you to a friend." - Unknown –

Response:

<snip |It takes a village – remember? I take exception to that last phrase of yours ("It takes a village") this is phrase very popular with feminists like Hilary Clinton and the anti-family memebers of NOW. However – given that the great majority of social ills (i.e. Drug Abuse,Crime,Suicide and Mental Illness) stem from the children of single parent families – a more accurate and POSITIVE phrase IS "It takes BOTH Parents to raise a child"!

Too bad your hatred of the Clintons blinds you to something very important that has been lost in our modern world. For the record, I did not vote for President Clinton either time and have never looked at the book written by Hilliary. However, I grew up in such a "villiage" … a neighborhood where people were not afraid to reach out to the kids. That includes the grandmotherly types with their cookies and milk and interesting stories, the other stay-at-home mothers running play sessions and cub scouts, the neighborhood fathers who taught sports and other activities my own father did not know (yes, I grew up in a two parent household) and my many relatives that added a great deal to what my well-meaning but harried parents had failed to do. Your blaming single parents for the majority of social ills is more than a little assinine … I guess you like simple answers to complex questions so why not also blame them for global warming (or global cooling since we cannot determine which is happening) and Kosovo while you are at it. Floridanewbie

Response:

What an incredible thing to say! How in heaven’s name did you come to that conclusion? Do you think they also encourage orphanhood for those with zero parents? Big Brothers/Sisters can also be helpful to two parent families where one parent is unable to participate physically in many activities … as are churches and other community organizations. It takes a village – remember? Floridanewbie

Response:

It takes a village – remember? Floridanewbie

yes it does, and unfortunately there are still some village idiots running around out there. Jp

Response:

|I have a friend who will mind my children as I will hers. Child care is |free that way. I also have two sitters just in case. A good support |system is important for anyone with children. It is not necessary to |find a man for the purpose of getting someone to help with the |children. There are organizations that have been mentioned here that |are also helpful. Big Brothers/Sisters is one. | |Interesting. You’re saying Big Brother / Big Sisters actually encourages |the creation of single parent families by making them viable? | | - John | |What an incredible thing to say! How in heaven’s name did you come to |that conclusion? Do you think they also encourage orphanhood for those |with zero parents? | |Big Brothers/Sisters can also be helpful to two parent families where |one parent is unable to participate physically in many activities … as |are churches and other community organizations. | |It takes a village – remember? | I take exception to that last phrase of yours ("It takes a village") this is phrase very popular with feminists like Hilary Clinton and the anti-family memebers of NOW. However – given that the great majority of social ills (i.e. Drug Abuse,Crime,Suicide and Mental Illness) stem from the children of single parent families – a more accurate and POSITIVE phrase IS "It takes BOTH Parents to raise a child"! |Floridanewbie | — Phil (Politically Incorrect And Proud Of It)

Response:

Interesting. You’re saying Big Brother / Big Sisters actually encourages the creation of single parent families by making them viable? That’s right, dude. A bunch of man-hating, money-grubbing meanies were sitting around one thinking about what they could do to *encourage* the creation of single parent families, when one of them popped up said, "I know! Let’s form Big Brothers/Big Sisters!" And you know? It must’ve taken off, because *look* at how many of us there are!

No, bear with me on this one. It very, very common for single moms to either actively hate or just not want anything to do with the father of their kid(s). Read these newsgroups. You see it all the time. But, the big factor that causes mom to talk to dad is that the kid(s) need/want their father in their lives. It’s that emotional attachment thing to dad. So mom relents and does whatever to let dad and the kids mix on occassion. Something like Big Brothers lessens the emotional kid’s emotional need to have dad in their lives because there’s another adult male paying attention, taking them out, doing ‘guy stuff’ with them. Over time, bio-dad isn’t missed that much; or if he doesn’t compare well to the Big Brother and/or mom’s new boyfriend, dad finds he’s even more disposible. It’s like Welfare encouraging teens to have kids in the ghettos; this wasn’t the intent of Welfare, but it is one of Welfare’s effects. Big Brothers intends the kids of single moms to have a male influence in their life; the side-effect may be that it’s making some dads even more disposable than they already are. – John

Response:

However, I grew up in such a "villiage" … a neighborhood where people were not afraid to reach out to the kids. That includes the grandmotherly types with their cookies and milk and interesting stories, the other stay-at-home mothers running play sessions and cub scouts, the neighborhood fathers who taught sports and other activities my own father did not know (yes, I grew up in a two parent household) and my many relatives that added a great deal to what my well-meaning but harried parents had failed to do.

Put your thinking cap on. Why is it that you find so few neighborhoods like the above today (or none). Because mom and dad are both at work, or in the case of single parent families just mom, and no one is home to create the neighborhood you’re talking about. This has been a huge change in American culture. Such "villages" do not come into existence by themselves. In order to have the activities described above you need people who are willing to stay at home, get to know each the neighbors, and who will put the time into doing the things you’re descrbing. And few people, let’s face it, are willing to do that today. Hillary Clinton wasn’t a soccer mom and wouldn’t be surprised if she hasn’t connected these two things (ie. single parenthood and two career families means no one is building the village it takes to raise a child). Glad you have great memories but if you went back to your old neighborhood what do you think you would find?

Response:

Interesting. You’re saying Big Brother / Big Sisters actually encourages the creation of single parent families by making them viable? – John

Response:

John, I won’t crosspost. My reply can be found in the originating newsgroup. ‘Kate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend who will mind my children as I will hers. Child care is free that way. I also have two sitters just in case. A good support system is important for anyone with children. It is not necessary to find a man for the purpose of getting someone to help with the children. There are organizations that have been mentioned here that are also helpful. Big Brothers/Sisters is one. Interesting. You’re saying Big Brother / Big Sisters actually encourages the creation of single parent families by making them viable? – John

Response:

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