Activism Change

Experience with Sierra Club…

Question:

   I thought the Sierra Club was founded by John Muir who had a lot more to do with Yosemite National Park than Berkeley philosophy dep.  What’s your source of information?

1) I was a student of Rod Nash who wrote Wilderness and the American Mind (and of the Club’s history committee), and Al Runte one of his students. 2) Cohen (History of the Sierra Club) is another decent source (not without controversy).   3) About a half a dozen other books on panel 28. The Club without question is the original Yuppie organization decades before the term Yuppie existed (Young urban professional). You can see Berkeley influence from guys like LeConte, et al. even to this day with guys like Rowell. It began as guys smoking and sherry sipping society (quite common in the 1890s).  It began as a strictly California organization, but Muir was a good publicist, and he was quick on his political education. I had an interesting question about Muir on a mid-Term in Rod’s class. Muir favored private cars in Yosemite.  But in today’s context if you brought Muir to Yosemite today: would he like Yosemite?  (to this post, not part of the question, Would he like the Sierra Club?) The TA (Jeff) took issue with my answer.  The problem would be whether Muir would have access or education to the events from his death (1914) to the present.  Jeff wanted a more "fixed" philosophy answer. Unfortunately Rod gave "grading authority" to the TAs on the midterms keeping the final for himself.  Rod gave me a great placating answer: I could come back and teach the class anytime I wanted, because he knew I could do it. And that was from a math major, not a history major. Muir’s vision wasn’t limited to CA.  His Alaskan and other world trips were great experiences for him. The interesting thing to me was Muir’s political education.  The nuclear physicists from Los Alamos had the same upbringing in 1946.  Generations aren’t learning.

Response:

When I was 16 I wanted to backpack soooo bad. My family didn’t even camp much less backpack. A science teacher sponsored me into the Sierra Club and I went on many marvelous hikes with memorable older folks who told tall tales around the campfire. I’ve been hiking all over the western united states since then (am 43). Don’t hike with them anymore, but still belong. Dee

Response:

Your experience will the Club can vary a lot. It tends to be governed by the local Chapter climate. I’ve seen about five operating Chapters.  By far and the away, and my first Chapter was the Angeles Chapter.  It is probably the most structured, bordering on truly autocratic is some ways (but I can think of even more autocratic outdoor organizations: this is not necessarily bad, but it makes for amusing situations: not the Bob Cram cartoon in Backpacking One Step at a time by Harvey Manning of a bunch of people marching down a trail using an ice ax as a baton: that’s not the SC he’s spoofing).  Surprisingly, the three Bay Area chapters closest to the National office are fairly unstructured, and reasonably loose. You will find people who are purely "into it" for the outdoor activity. I’ve listened to LA leaders sneer at the Club "environmentalists" and similarly know politicos who don’t do outdoor activities. LA in particular seems to be influenced by the nature of the industry there: it produced one sociology PhD thesis (Mitchell’s) and LA’s psyche reflects in other writings (like Levy’s book Hackers [he attributed the difference to highly structured aerospace/defense industries]). Meeting at the offices of the DWP doesn’t help either. ;^) That Sierra was published a long time using non-recycled glossy paper, and the little Angeles chapter handbook similarly was criticized (change comes slowly to all large bureaucracies unfortunately). In 1964 the Club was very pro-Nuclear power.  To many in the environmental movement, it was perfectly logical at the time. Most of the Club did a 180 degree turn on that, except Ansel Adams (most noted proponent in the Club to the day he died). So does the fact that they did the 180 make them hypocritical? Naw, that just says the finger pointer is more concern with the consistency of an organization than it’s philosophy. Being a member of the Sierra Club does not preclude you from joining say the Auto Club (but I know SCers who think that) or that knowing that Barry Goldwater was once a Life Member. The fanaticism of certain members of the Club is legendary. I doubt I would want it any other way myself.  It’s another one of those academic tradition things. You find the people in the Club you want to hang out with, and you hang out. In some ways, I bet Muir would be a little disappointed, and in other ways he’d be impressed.  I think far more fanatic (and misunderstood organizations) exist.

Response:

I disagree. I am actively involved with the wilderness Basics Course and run whenever I hear the mention of political stuff. I lead many hikes and never get into anything but good old wilderness stuff. I realize that someone has to do the political business and I appreciate them for it. but there are those that do only the outback stuff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article "Daniel The Sierra Club has always seemed to be more of a political/social institution than one who gathers to do outdoors stuff and have fun.  I’d rather be alone to have the full wilderness experience than be with a bunch of people I don’t really agree with. -Dan Hear, hear! I couldn’t agree with you more.                                                    Ken B.

Response:

The Sierra Club has always seemed to be more of a political/social institution than one who gathers to do outdoors stuff and have fun.  I’d rather be alone to have the full wilderness experience than be with a bunch of people I don’t really agree with. -Dan

Response:

The Sierra Club has always seemed to be more of a political/social institution than one who gathers to do outdoors stuff and have fun.  I’d rather be alone to have the full wilderness experience than be with a bunch of people I don’t really agree with.

Depends on the city.  For example in L.A. probably far more people are involved in their extension outings program (3000+ trips a year) than environmental activism beyond sending in a check.

Response:

In article The Sierra Club has always seemed to be more of a political/social institution than one who gathers to do outdoors stuff and have fun.  I’d rather be alone to have the full wilderness experience than be with a bunch of people I don’t really agree with. -Dan

Hear, hear! I couldn’t agree with you more.                                                    Ken B.

Response:

Well I ran into a group of sierra clubers this summer.  They had more that the allowable 15 so they went in two groups on two different permits and just met in the backcounty to travel together.  Very illegal and unethical.  They approached some neighboring campers and wanted to give

Oh, I know groups and people like this. Very "social." I avoid them, too. them some of their food.  The campers didn’t want it and then the leaders told them that because of the steep climb the next day and the inexperience of the group that they would have to bury the extra food right there in the wilderness.  It sounds to me like the Sierra Club needs to learn some wilerness ethics.

The leadership training in the Club is somewhat inconsistent (I’ve had it).  The problem is that the base skills are quite widely varied. And the stuff happening with insurance contributes to problems downstream in time. I operate wilderness summer camp for kids 10 to 15 yrs old in the sierra and we teach the kids to travel in small goups and leave no trace as promoted by NOLS. The "Leave No Trace" program by NOLS is a great program and will help preserve our wilderness areas for generations to come.  As for the Sierra Club !!!!

NOLS has (Petzolt) certainly had made it’s contribution to the wilderness and climbing specifically: e.g. standardized belay signals. The Club has its strengths and weaknesses.  The usual other comparisons include local groups like the CMC/Mountaineers, Mazamas, AMC, the Audubon Society [remember he killed all those birds in order to paint them], the Wilderness Society, the I. Walton League, etc. The real problem is that this type of education does not scale well.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       I thought the Sierra Club was founded by John Muir who had a lot more to do with Yosemite National Park than Berkeley philosophy dep.  What’s your source of information? 1) I was a student of Rod Nash who wrote Wilderness and the American Mind (and of the Club’s history committee), and Al Runte one of his students. 2) Cohen (History of the Sierra Club) is another decent source (not without controversy). 3) About a half a dozen other books on panel 28. The Club without question is the original Yuppie organization decades before the term Yuppie existed (Young urban professional). You can see Berkeley influence from guys like LeConte, et al. even to this day with guys like Rowell. It began as guys smoking and sherry sipping society (quite common in the 1890s).  It began as a strictly California organization, but Muir was a good publicist, and he was quick on his political education. I had an interesting question about Muir on a mid-Term in Rod’s class. Muir favored private cars in Yosemite.  But in today’s context if you brought Muir to Yosemite today: would he like Yosemite?  (to this post, not part of the question, Would he like the Sierra Club?) The TA (Jeff) took issue with my answer.  The problem would be whether Muir would have access or education to the events from his death (1914) to the present.  Jeff wanted a more "fixed" philosophy answer. Unfortunately Rod gave "grading authority" to the TAs on the midterms keeping the final for himself.  Rod gave me a great placating answer: I could come back and teach the class anytime I wanted, because he knew I could do it. And that was from a math major, not a history major. Muir’s vision wasn’t limited to CA.  His Alaskan and other world trips were great experiences for him. The interesting thing to me was Muir’s political education.  The nuclear physicists from Los Alamos had the same upbringing in 1946.  Generations aren’t learning.

Well I ran into a group of sierra clubers this summer.  They had more that the allowable 15 so they went in two groups on two different permits and just met in the backcounty to travel together.  Very illegal and unethical.  They approached some neighboring campers and wanted to give them some of their food.  The campers didn’t want it and then the leaders told them that because of the steep climb the next day and the inexperience of the group that they would have to bury the extra food right there in the wilderness.  It sounds to me like the Sierra Club needs to learn some wilerness ethics.  I operate wilderness summer camp for kids 10 to 15 yrs old in the sierra and we teach the kids to travel in small goups and leave no trace as promoted by NOLS. The "Leave No Trace" program by NOLS is a great program and will help preserve our wilderness areas for generations to come.  As for the Sierra Club !!!! Geo

Response:

   Note:  there is a difference between the official Club-wide outings listed in the magazine and the outings of local chapters.  The listed outings are ridiculously expensive;  local outings can be very, very efficient in cost versus what you get.

Very true. For a list of free climbing and hiking activities in California, you can visit these web sites:    http://reality.sgi.com/csp/pcs/index.html    http://www.edgeinternet.com/sps/index.html The first site (pcs = Peak Climbing Section) contains plain text and postscript versions of a climbing newsletter. You can also get on an email list where hikes and climbs are announced (all free!) by sending this two-line message to    info lomap-peak-climbing    info lomap-day-hiking The first list carries a plain-text version of the PCS newsletter, with trip reports, gear for sale, private expeditions to other continents, etc. The second list is primarily for the San Francisco and Silicon Valley areas. No charge to subscribe, and no charge for any of the activities (well, maybe you have to reimburse the leader for permit fees, and the big expeditions have travel and guide costs, but the normal stuff is BY DEFINITION free). Enjoy! — SRE * * *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  * * * * * *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  * * * * ftp:  192.100.81.1   415-508-0500   fax: 415-508-0501 * * * *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  * * * TRY THIS:   echo ‘[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq’|dc

Response:

               snip dislike.  It started with and is populated with teachers (started with the UC Berkeley philosophy dept.).

        I thought the Sierra Club was founded by John Muir who had a lot more to do with Yosemite National Park than Berkeley philosophy dep.  What’s your source of information? to the person inquiring:         Might also point out that you get a slick monthly magazine, which is interesting reading.   Such a magazine would easily cost the $25 -per yr.         National group trips are, I think, cheaper than commercial-for-profit trips.  Yet a good place to learn how to cope with the outdoors.           The Club has the same overhead as any business:  on-going expenses of staff, rent, etc.  I’ve volunteered in the Outing Department and seen the volume of requests they handle.  Costs at least a couple of dollars to mail a brochure.         Joan, San Francisco

Response:

I’m a member of the Sierra Club. They do a LOT to support the security of existing wild areas, and try to create new ones for all to enjoy.  I consider THIS to be what my $25 is going to. If you are spending $25 in hopes of joining an outdoors "Network", save your money.  All the Sierra Club trips are very costly.  I assume this is for insurance purposes and the like, but the fact is, outdoor activity can be done WAY more cheaply than this.  If you don’t mind the added expense (an outing will cost about 60% more than you could do it yourself for), I’m sure you will meet many new people.  Read the descriptions carefully. Each outing is kinda geared to a particular interest group. If you’re interested in long-distance hiking, don’t go on a birdwatching stroll.

        Note:  there is a difference between the official Club-wide outings listed in the magazine and the outings of local chapters.  The listed outings are ridiculously expensive;  local outings can be very, very efficient in cost versus what you get.                         one of God’s peculiar< people      "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God’s peculiar people."                           — the Apostle Peter (KJV)

Response:

The Club is quite a mixed organization.  Only something around 10% partake in outings.  You will find people you will like, and others you will dislike.  It started with and is populated with teachers (started with the UC Berkeley philosophy dept.).

I might add that the conservation wing of the Club is somewhat separate from the "outings" (read "activities") wing of the Club. There are major splits, for instance, on desert protection and bolting climbing routes… so don’t assume the first person you talk to is like all the rest! — SRE * * *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  * * * * * *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  * * * * ftp:  192.100.81.1   415-508-0500   fax: 415-508-0501 * * * *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  * * * TRY THIS:   echo ‘[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq’|dc

Response:

If you support the SC philosophy, join anyway to protect the environment. If you just want to see how the activities go, you can join the local hikes without being a member. In the worst case, you might have to pay a dollar or 2 more if there is a cost to the event. However, 99% of all Club events are free. David Eisenberg Hundred Peaks Section, Angeles Chapter http://www.edgeinternet.com/hps/

Response:

The high cost is only for National Outings. 99% of all local activities are free. David Eisenberg Hundred Peaks Section, Angeles Chapter http://www.edgeinternet.com/hps/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a member of the Sierra Club. They do a LOT to support the security of existing wild areas, and try to create new ones for all to enjoy.  I consider THIS to be what my $25 is going to. If you are spending $25 in hopes of joining an outdoors "Network", save your money.  All the Sierra Club trips are very costly.  I assume this is for insurance purposes and the like, but the fact is, outdoor activity can be done WAY more cheaply than this.  If you don’t mind the added expense (an outing will cost about 60% more than you could do it yourself for), I’m sure you will meet many new people.  Read the descriptions carefully. Each outing is kinda geared to a particular interest group. If you’re interested in long-distance hiking, don’t go on a birdwatching stroll. You get a cool calendar with your membership.  Try it for a year to see if you like it. Your $$$ will help out the cause, and you get a cool calendar out of the deal. That’s my advise.  =) NTrepiDon

Response:

Hi, I like doing outdoor activities, but lately I haven’t been doing anything because I don’t like doing it alone. So, I have been looking for clubs in Philadelphia area that support these kind of activities. A friend of mine told me that Sierra Club organizes a lot of outdoor activities; and many of them at a discount rate, and I am interested in being a member. I have the form in front of me, but before I commit $25 introductory fee I would like to get a feedback from more experienced members. Thanks. Arbin PS: I support the philosphy of Sierra Club…

Response:

    I joined the Sierra Club at the insistence of my wife who had just quit smoking and was going through a vegetarian, tree-hugger phase.  I expected to meet a bunch of namby-pamby wine and cheese types.  As it turned out, I have never known a group of more experienced backpackers, canoeists, and skiers.  I have enjoyed every outing I’ve been on and am a better outdoorsman because of it.  My wife and I have since divorced but I’m still a member of the Sierra Club. Craig

Response:

For many trips, membership is not required.  Just go on one of those trips. And most meetings tend to be free. The Club is quite a mixed organization.  Only something around 10% partake in outings.  You will find people you will like, and others you will dislike.  It started with and is populated with teachers (started with the UC Berkeley philosophy dept.). Michael Cohen wrote The History of the Sierra Club if you have time to read it.  It is popular in some circles and not popular in others.

Response:

I’m a member of the Sierra Club. They do a LOT to support the security of existing wild areas, and try to create new ones for all to enjoy.  I consider THIS to be what my $25 is going to. If you are spending $25 in hopes of joining an outdoors "Network", save your money.  All the Sierra Club trips are very costly.  I assume this is for insurance purposes and the like, but the fact is, outdoor activity can be done WAY more cheaply than this.  If you don’t mind the added expense (an outing will cost about 60% more than you could do it yourself for), I’m sure you will meet many new people.  Read the descriptions carefully. Each outing is kinda geared to a particular interest group. If you’re interested in long-distance hiking, don’t go on a birdwatching stroll. You get a cool calendar with your membership.  Try it for a year to see if you like it. Your $$$ will help out the cause, and you get a cool calendar out of the deal. That’s my advise.  =) NTrepiDon

Response:

Filed under: Environmental Activism

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