Boycott the AHA/AOB

Question:

<snippage from those who are on the board(s). I know Dave Miller was recently selected for the Board of Advisors, so I’ll try to ask him soon what his opinion is. I know he quit writing for them several years ago as he felt they were exploiting their authors by not compensating them enough. I don’t think non-staff Zymurgy contributors get paid.

Oh, come on, it’s a HOBBY RAG, it’s a magazine for the club members, and it’s FOR AND BY club members for the most part. Ergo, the lack of pay doesn’t astonish me at all. I have seen a whole lot of people b***hing about Zymurgy and the AHA lately. While I too wish they would run more technical stuff, I must point out that they always have a 20% newbie population who NEEDS newbie articles. It’s very arrogant to demand that they only match YOUR level. — Copyright alice!jj 1996, all rights reserved, except transmission by USENET and like facilities granted. This notice must be included. Any use by a provider charging in any way for the IP represented in and by this article and any inclusion in print or other media are specifically prohibited.

Response:

Kinney Baughman writes a spirited defense of the AHA. Much of it (such as the claimed unavailability of information or materials 16 years ago) is open to debate, at least as to certain parts of the country where homebrewing has a longer history (heck, DeFalco’s in Houston has been in business since 1976), but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and concede that the AHA has done a lot to assist in the growth of homebrewing. Does this change my criticism of the AHA? No. It is still an organization with *very* large problems. Most troubling to me is the fact that these same problems have been complained about for years, and yet the AHA bureaucracy steadfastly resists any meaningful efforts to resolve them. To respond to a few of Kinney’s comments: Even if they weren’t non-profit, isn’t this America? Isn’t this the land where a person can have an idea, implement it and make a buck as long as the "market" allows?

I’d love to see the AHA tell the IRS that this is their philosophy. Non-profit status means just that: you *don’t* get to "make a buck," no matter how good your idea is or how noble you think your purpose is. Certainly, a non-profit organization can have paid employees if reasonably necessary to carry out its mission. But if the main goal of the organization is just to pay salaries (i.e., allowing some people to "make a buck"), then the AHA has no business being a non-profit organization. If it wants to be a for-profit group, fine; your logic becomes unassailable in that event. The point is that they have not. If you are concerned about this, that, or the other issue, write the AHA staff a letter or call them on the phone. They are as open and friendly as you could possibly want. They aren’t dictators bent on shoving their opinions and policies down our throats.

To call the AHA staff dictatorial is, of course, unfair and inaccurate. It is similiarly naive and inaccurate to ignore some of their egredious bureaucratic behavior. Recall the recent AHA attempt to take over the BJCP. Did this idea spring from the AHA membership, the BJCP membership, or the AHA’s "Advisors"? Nope. In closing, I must smile at some of the suggestions that all decisions made by the AHA should be voted upon by the membership.

What I and many others are suggesting is that the AHA behave like most other legitimate non-profits, and at least have an independent (preferably member-elected) Board of Directors with oversight authority. Louis K. Bonham

Response:

: If you just paid the $$ to get a subscription to Zymurgy, then you’re : doing fine. : The problem is, there is a growing need for an organization that will : represent the best interests of the homebrewing community. The AHA is : not filling this role. Some people DO expect this, that’s where the : friction arises. Many perceive the AHA as nothing more than a (poorly : run) publishing company, which uses the profits from its publishing : and other ventures to support the pub-crawls of some of its officers. I don’t mean to keep following up to Kelly’s articles but I am concerned about all the negative publicity going on with the AOB and AHA lately. It’s easy to fling negative criticism at the flick of the keyboard but besides the current *technical* problems with the HBD, how has the AHA/AOB let us down and how have they not been representing the best interests of the homebrewing community? What in your mind *is* the best interests of the homebrewing community? Let me tell you what they have done: 16 years ago when this hobby was not much more than the flicker of an idea in Charlie’s mind, they started an organization to disseminate information about this newly rediscovered lost art of brewing. It *was* a lost art, BTW. I started brewing then and you couldn’t find anything about brewing beer except from some old English books that had all sorts of strange ingredients in them like treacle, licorice sticks, and saccharin. Wort chillers? Lauter tuns? What were those? You couldn’t find one if your life depended on it. The AHA started publishing a magazine, began holding a national conference, and disseminating information about how to start a homebrew club, how to publish a club newsletter, and if you had questions, you could write a letter to the editor which was the only feedback you could get before the dawning of the age of the Internet. They also started the GABF. As the commercial craft brewing market started catching on, they held a conference for that segment of the population and started publishing a magazine for them. Guess what happened? Within 3 or 4 years, enterprising homebrewers were starting brewpubs, fledgling microbreweries, and homebrew shops. I was one of them. As a result of these entities, the word of homebrewing began spreading to more and more people and many of those people began brewing and became involved in the craft brewing movement. The AHA was a constant source of support for me. They published my ads which brought me more business. They published my articles which helped get the word out on shortcuts I’d discovered and was eager to pass along to the community at large. They did the same for others. I humbly suggest that these services have served the best interests of the community. As we all tired of going to the Denver every year for the AHA conference, they responded by bringing the conference to different parts of the country. In effect, they brought it to us. That, too, was serving the best interests of the community. 15 years later, most towns have homebrew shops and brewpubs. We all have microbrews on our grocery store shelves. The public is imminently more aware of craft brewed beers than ever before. We have redisovered and reinstantiated a long lost art. *We* are all the better for it. Would this have happened without the AHA/AOB? Eventually, maybe. But it clearly wouldn’t have happened as quickly and effectively as it did with them. So I take serious issue with the charge the AHA/AOB is not serving the brewing community. Clearly they are. My question to those who are discontented with the AHA is what would you be doing if you were in charge? Would you being doing anything any differently? What kind of conference would you hold? What kind of magazine would you publish? Would you have even dreamed of doing a GABF? Or a microbrewers’ conference? Would you have commissioned the beer style book series? Published a _Microbrewers Resource Manual_? Helped lobby to make homebrewing legal in all 50 states? Are you moaning about a $33 subscription/membership fee? Do you know of any other specialty/cult organization that doesn’t charge at least that much for a magazine subscription and membership services? What would you charge? Would you do it for nothing? Hardly? Doesn’t the staff deserve to make a living? Or do we insist they work for nothing because they’re "nonprofit" as if that has anything to do with anything? They aren’t our slaves just because we fork over a measly $33 a year. Even if they weren’t non-profit, isn’t this America? Isn’t this the land where a person can have an idea, implement it and make a buck as long as the "market" allows? For those of you who haven’t tried, the brewing business is a tough business. The market is spread out and specialized. We’re lucky we have the AHA. They could have very easily folded 15 years ago when there weren’t enough of us to support the hobby. But they persevered. They believed. And we should be thankful. As I write in defense of the AHA, don’t think that I haven’t had my issues with them in the past. They published a most unflattering review of one of my products once upon a time. I’ve written articles gratis and felt like I should have gotten a complimentary pass to the national conference in return for speaking. Perhaps these policies have changed now. The point is, you can’t please all the people all the time and I, too, have not been pleased all the time. But that’s just the way life is, Folks! I’m just one puny little homebrewer among thousands. I can’t possibly expect my opinion to reflect the vast majority of homebrewers on every single issue. Neither should you. This thread started because a mail server has choked under the load created by the quantity of mail generated by the HBD! Why aren’t we rejoicing that homebrewing has become that popular? Instead, we have a band of discontents who want to boycott the very organization that helped homebrewing get to the point that a listserv would choke under the load. 16 years ago I would have given anything to talk to just one person about advanced homebrewing techniques. Now there are so many people to talk to, the HBD computer has been brought to its knees! My, my my. Aren’t we spoiled! If you don’t like the quality of the articles in Zymurgy, write better ones and submit them. They’ll be published. If you are concerned about this, that, or the other issue, write the AHA staff a letter or call them on the phone. They are as open and friendly as you could possibly want. They aren’t dictators bent on shoving their opinions and policies down our throats. In closing, I must smile at some of the suggestions that all decisions made by the AHA should be voted upon by the membership. Are you kidding? Can you imagine the bookkeeping nightmare that would be? All of your $33 membership fees would be spent in postage fees! Besides, have you ever worked on a committee before? The only thing worse than 1 person making all the decisions is having hundreds of people doing it! I feel the people at the top in the AHA are doing a darn good job considering the enormity of their job. I’m happy to support them because I wouldn’t have their job for the money they’re getting paid. It can’t be enough! Off the soapbox and back to work… | | Kinney Baughman | | / / | "Beer is my business and I’m late for work" |

Response:

[Incidentally, if CP is reading, how about disclosing to the AHA/AOB members *exactly* how much of their annual dues go to you, in either salary or subsidies for your globetrotting lifestyle? If the AHA/AOB is really a nonprofit organization and not the scam it appears to be, you should have nothing to hide.]

We need someone in Boulder to go to the AOB and ask to see the Tax form 999 (or is it 990) and copy all the numbers dwon and then post them. This would be very helpful. Thye AOB has to let you see the from (but not photocopy it) by law Jim

Response:

: We need someone in Boulder to go to the AOB and ask to see the Tax form : 999 (or is it 990) and copy all the numbers dwon and then post them. : This would be very helpful. Thye AOB has to let you see the from (but : not photocopy it) by law Any volunteers? I’d really like to see those numbers. -Alan — as this email account will not be valid as of Dec 20th, 1996 http://alpha.rollanet.org/~mckay/brew/tips/

Response:

If I am totally off base here, please tell me why… I don’t have a problem with the AHA non-profit or for profit. I paid my dues, got a cool coaster and a sub to ZYMURGY. Was I promised more that I should be persuing? Pdoolittle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [Incidentally, if CP is reading, how about disclosing to the AHA/AOB members *exactly* how much of their annual dues go to you, in either salary or subsidies for your globetrotting lifestyle? If the AHA/AOB is really a nonprofit organization and not the scam it appears to be, you should have nothing to hide.] We need someone in Boulder to go to the AOB and ask to see the Tax form 999 (or is it 990) and copy all the numbers dwon and then post them. This would be very helpful. Thye AOB has to let you see the from (but not photocopy it) by law Jim

Response:

I’m sure most of us would also. This is the crux of the problem. The organization is not held accountable (literally) by its members.

Response:

: We need someone in Boulder to go to the AOB and ask to see the Tax form : 999 (or is it 990) and copy all the numbers dwon and then post them. : This would be very helpful. Thye AOB has to let you see the from (but : not photocopy it) by law Any volunteers? I’d really like to see those numbers. I’m sure most of us would also. This is the crux of the problem. The organization is not held accountable (literally) by its members.

The real problem is that it *cannot* be held accountable by its members. Even if you get the financial information and learn (surprise, surprise) that the AHA/AOB spends most of its money perpetuating its own existence (and, not coincidentally, the salaries of its officers and the travel expenses of guess who), what can AHA/AOB members do? There’s no mechanism to remove anyone from office — none of the AOB/AHA officers or directors are elected by its members. CP and Co. can just sit back and laugh, as they have in the past. I put forth the following challenge to CP and the AHA/AOB: tell us *why* you won’t allow your "members" to elect the officers and directors of these supposed nonprofit organizations? Ten to one we’ll hear nothing but silence.

Response:

Well, Philip, I dunno if you looked at the last issue of Zymurgy, but it was pretty much useless and a waste of our money. It was about why some people brew. Why would we care about that? I think the majority of the subscribers would want technical articles — not to know why some other person brews beer. It does us absolutely no good! One more worthless issue like that and I’m outta here. -Jay Reeves

Response:

Jay, I’ll reiterate what I said when that issue first came out: I liked it. Sure, there wasn’t much in the way of technical information, but community building is also a necessary part of what the AHA does. A lot of us here on r.c.b may think we get enough of that (come to think of it, I could swear I remember a few "why do you brew?" threads here some months back), but the internet isn’t necessarily representative of the community, or even the AHA, at large. I do think the AHA has some problems. If it’s truly an "association", and not the CP lifelong employment project, then there should be some sort of democratic means to affect changes within it. The whole HBD debacle raises disturbing questions about the administrative capabilites of the personnel (and I still can’t figure out what a mailing list is doing being posted to a newsgroup anyway). But _Zymurgy_ has been terrific as far as I’m concerned. — "I find nothing wrong with mocking the afflicted when that affliction is

Response:

Jay, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I am totally off base here, please tell me why… I don’t have a problem with the AHA non-profit or for profit. I paid my dues, got a cool coaster and a sub to ZYMURGY. Was I promised more that I should be persuing? Pdoolittle Well, Philip, I dunno if you looked at the last issue of Zymurgy, but it was pretty much useless and a waste of our money. It was about why some people brew. Why would we care about that? I think the majority of the subscribers would want technical articles — not to know why some other person brews beer. It does us absolutely no good! One more worthless issue like that and I’m outta here. -Jay Reeves

You talking about the SI ’Personality’ issue or the Winter ‘96 (the new one) ?

Response:

If you just paid the $$ to get a subscription to Zymurgy, then you’re doing fine. The problem is, there is a growing need for an organization that will represent the best interests of the homebrewing community. The AHA is not filling this role. Some people DO expect this, that’s where the friction arises. Many perceive the AHA as nothing more than a (poorly run) publishing company, which uses the profits from its publishing and other ventures to support the pub-crawls of some of its officers. Kelly

Response:

I think that this thread ‘bashing AHA’ has run its reasonable course and ought to be ended. Each point of view has been expressed. The AHA folks know how we feel. Let’s give them a chance to work out the problems. 73, JET

Response:

YoYo wrote (referring to HBD): <snip (and I still can’t figure out what a mailing list is doing being posted to a newsgroup anyway).

HBD has been posted to rcb for some years as a service by Dion Hollenbeck. A number of folks prefer to access it that way.

Response:

the AHA and the AoB. The title is "Critiqueing the AHA". here is the address http://alpha.rollanet.org:80/hbd/archive/2245.html Cheers, Jason Henning Big Red Alchemy and Brewing

Response:

And it seems that stuff like who is on the "Board of Directors" and/or the "Board of Advisors" should be available. Lots of people bitch about how this (these) board(s) is ignored and is useless, but we never hear from those who are on the board(s). I know Dave Miller was recently selected for the Board of Advisors, so I’ll try to ask him soon what his opinion is. I know he quit writing for them several years ago as he felt they were exploiting their authors by not compensating them enough. – Bryan

Response:

Jeff Renner writes:

JR YoYo wrote (referring to HBD): JR <snip (and I still can’t figure out what a mailing list is doing being posted to a newsgroup anyway).

JR HBD has been posted to rcb for some years as a service by Dion JR Hollenbeck. A number of folks prefer to access it that way. And before me by someone else for many years. The reason that I chose to take up the torch and continue posting it is that whaterver site rusn the HBD has an enormous load posting to 8000 some subscribers and if I can subscribe as just one "user" and then who know how many hundreds or thousands of people read it from my posting in rcb, then those people have not swelled the subscriber list. This takes part of the load off the HBD site. And, for the most part, the discussions in HBD *are* different from the discussions in rcb. When the HBD gets going again, I will resume the posting, unless of course I get overwhelming evidence that people who read rcb do not want me to. dion

Response:

If I were to drive up to Boulder, it would probably be to drink beer, not to transcribe a goofy tax form!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippage from those who are on the board(s). I know Dave Miller was recently selected for the Board of Advisors, so I’ll try to ask him soon what his opinion is. I know he quit writing for them several years ago as he felt they were exploiting their authors by not compensating them enough. I don’t think non-staff Zymurgy contributors get paid. Au contraire; I got a whopping $45 for a "Best of Kits" article (Summer ‘96 – "Quaffable German Ales"), not to mention the 20 gallons of beer I brewed (they bought the 4 kits and sent them to me).

Ok. Ok. I’ve been corrected twice now. Mea Culpa.

Response:

Au contraire; I got a whopping $45 for a "Best of Kits" article (Summer ‘96 – "Quaffable German Ales"), not to mention the 20 gallons of beer I brewed (they bought the 4 kits and sent them to me). Not bad, for a complete nobody. Way down south they had a jubilee, Them Georgia folks, they had a jamboree. They were drinking homebrew from a wooden cup, The folks that were dancin’ there got all shook up. Chuck Berry – "Rock ‘n Roll Music"

Response:

Well, as we know, the AHA is still reading the newsgroup, and so they have heard the criticisms. of the Board of Advisors, which is listed inside of each issue of Zymurgy, near the ToC. Currently, the advisers are: Judy Ashworth – California Scott Birdwell – Texas Michael Jackson – England Ed Busch – New Jersey Bill Murphy – Massachusetts Steve Casselman – California Charlie Olchowski – Massachusetts Fred Eckhardt – Oregon George Fix – Texas John Sterling – Missouri Jeff Frane – Oregon – Bryan

Response:

: from those who are on the board(s). I know Dave Miller was recently : selected for the Board of Advisors, so I’ll try to ask him soon what his : opinion is. I know he quit writing for them several years ago as he : felt they were exploiting their authors by not compensating them enough. : I don’t think non-staff Zymurgy contributors get paid. Really!? Well, to hell with them. Not that I’ve ever been published before, but I certainly won’t be going to them in the future. God forbid they should pay somebody for actually doing some work. They might then not have enough money for Charlie to go on his global pub crawl. Je**s this makes me sick. The more I read, the closer I come to pulling my membership. -Alan — as this email account will not be valid as of Dec 20th, 1996 http://alpha.rollanet.org/~mckay/brew/tips/

Response:

And before me by someone else for many years. The reason that I chose to take up the torch and continue posting it is that whaterver site rusn the HBD has an enormous load posting to 8000 some subscribers and if I can subscribe as just one "user" and then who know how many hundreds or thousands of people read it from my posting in rcb, then those people have not swelled the subscriber list. This takes part of the load off the HBD site. And, for the most part, the discussions in HBD *are* different from the discussions in rcb.

Okay, this I can understand. — "I find nothing wrong with mocking the afflicted when that affliction is

Response:

I don’t think non-staff Zymurgy contributors get paid.

Not true. I got $15 for a brief note on the 30 cent beer engine (a 10 cc syringe – someone since called it a pocket beer engine, a much better name IMO) and am getting $35 for "Baking for Brewers," an upcoming article (Spring ‘97) on baking bread with an emphasis on using brewing byproducts. Of course, this works out to a dollar or two an hour, but on the other hand, I got nothing from Brewing Techniques for "Recreating the Classic American Pilsner."

Response:

I know several members of the board and all I’ve ever heard was that it is: A. Toothless B. Ignored My understanding is the Board was overwhelmingly opposed to the AHA’s plan to cease sponsorship of the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) and start its own judge certification group. We all know how that turned out. from those who are on the board(s). I know Dave Miller was recently selected for the Board of Advisors, so I’ll try to ask him soon what his opinion is. I know he quit writing for them several years ago as he felt they were exploiting their authors by not compensating them enough.

I don’t think non-staff Zymurgy contributors get paid.

Response:

Filed under: Community building

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