Activism Change

Double Standards: Ever Wonder Why?

Question:

I like to dig deeper.

Struggling to support your biases doesn’t get you points in my book.

Response:

Interesting comments… I am not a feminist  - mainly because I don’t believe in labeling myself or my views – and I don’t think they fit in a nice neat little box … I think that if you continue to lay down like a doormat – people will walk on / over you. If you stay quiet – no one will ever hear you. It is specific people that treat you badly – not a gender, age range or race. Deb.. just me’ two cents

Response:

Kane won’t change his mind?

I changed my mind about you, didn’t I? Now you’re catching on.

To you?  I should hope so. All the poster has to do is google you up through your addy. Kane never admits to being wrong, even when the facts stare him in the face.

That is not correct. I simply don’t take media and highly biased analysis of "facts" as their face value. I like to dig deeper. You don’t like it when I do that. And as for facts, why I admitted I was wrong in a very recent post. http://tinyurl.com/2rlpa He fancies himself to be some sort of manipulative social engineer.

I do? Please post proof. His goal is not to learn, but to convert everybody to his opinion.

You on the other hand do not try to convert anyone to believing you were mistreated by CPS in Iowa….even though YOU were not a member of the family that took it in the shorts because of you. He’s a rabid atheist,

Odd, I rarely mention my beliefs on this this score. And when I do I often speak of the value of religion or my acceptance that some are so. Please refer us to posts of mine, or other proof if you have it, that I am "rabid" about atheism. or he’d be a cult leader for sure,

Funny. I turned down the chance in the 70’s…many times. I am somewhat charismatic. with his craving for the power of having followers.

I’m looking around, and accept for "she who must be obeyed" R R R R, I don’t have any followers. Not a one so far as I know. I find Doug far more interested in suckin’ up to you twits and trying to enlist you. My only concern here is to make sure you aren’t believed without posters taking a good long look at your history here and what you have been doing with yourself and that little family for the past 3 plus years. Do have a wonderful day. It’s gorgeous here. I think I’ll go bass fishing. Yep.  I’m out o’ here. Kane

Response:

Kane won’t change his mind? Now you’re catching on. Kane never admits to being wrong, even when the facts stare him in the face. He fancies himself to be some sort of manipulative social engineer. His goal is not to learn, but to convert everybody to his opinion. He’s a rabid atheist, or he’d be a cult leader for sure, with his craving for the power of having followers.

Response:

   My sense is that nothing I say is going to convince you, Kane.  Many of the "citations" you say you want can be found in Christina Hoff Sommers’ book.  You can hardly have had time to read it properly since I recommended it to you yesterday.

I’m waiting for you to post some citations from the book. I have no intention of reading every book referred to in usenet groups I frequent. My sense is that you are promoting a propagandist, since some of your claims I can easily refute by checking (and I have) DOJ data on domestic crimes, including who kills how in female vs male homicides.    I have no wish to prolong this discussion with you, and risk boring everyone else.

That’s what weasels always say when they are cornered and are seconds from bolting down their little escape hole. So this will be my last exchange with you on the subject of double standards.  

And there he goes folks. Just the butt end showing at this point as he scampers away. I’ll content myself with listing the following items, in the interests of enlarging the horizons (raising the consciousness) of those who WANT to have their horizons enlarged: — The point to my statement about talents and deficiencies not being randomly distributed between the two sexes was, I thought, transparently clear.  

It was quite clear to me. What YOU do NOT have clear is that women aren’t asking so much to work in all fields as to be paid the same a man is paid doing the same work. There is no reason to expect that the distribution of the sexes in different professions will be 50/50, or perhaps anywhere near that proportion.

I made NO attempt to defend any demade for 50/50 parity, nor have I seen ANY credible demand from women for that. They wish to be paid the same as men doing the same job. That doesn’t reflect discrimination against women.  It reflects the fact that, overall, the talents of the two sexes are differently distributed.

You said that already and I answered it in the post and in this one. No one is claiming there is anything pro or con any such claim, though we are finding that when women have the same opportunties as men to acquire certain skills they do quite as well as men. I can say the same for men acquiring "female" skills. — I’m not going to go to all the time and trouble to prove the obvious, that for many years in the U.S. there have been affirmative action (quota) programs designed to increase the proportion of women in various jobs.  I don’t intend either to take the time and trouble to prove that the earth is round, not flat.

Of course you aren’t because the truth would dubunk your claims..programs for affirmative action for women have been REMOVED. Let’s start here: http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/cenear/980720/acad.html And then there’s this one about MALE favored affirmative action in 2000…meaning that women have had to fight every step of the way for simple EQUALITY, not favors : http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,90446,00.html "Last July the University of Georgia lost a lawsuit filed by female students who were denied admission because of an affirmative-action policy that favored men. Says junior Shanna Norris, 20: "It’s not fair that a boy would get extra weight (in the admissions index) over a girl, but it would be better if there were more boys on campus." " — My point about the application of quotas in situations where they favor women was also perfectly clear.  No one is allowed to resist quotas that favor women by saying that women don’t have the qualifications or aptitude for the positions in question.  In fact, as in the case of firefighting jobs in many locations, longstanding physical rules were changed to ensure that more women could qualify.

And has firefighting suffered as a result? No. The rules before then KEPT women out. Many "rules" of employment were in fact discriminatory for that very reason. So why should anyone be allowed to get away with your argument in favor of continuing the glass ceiling on paternal custody, that men don’t have "the ability to nurture small children."  

That’s not MY argument. Like most weasels you go to snipping selectively or posting away from the comment you are trying to refute. Here is what I said in it’s entirety, weasel: That has a great deal more to do with ability to nurture small children. Men get just about zero childhood prep for that, while females get a great deal of child care prep.

Men and women obviously are both discriminated against as children. Boy’s Don’t get child care and homemaking exposure and instruction and experience…hence the argument against them having custody does in fact have validity…..that does NOT SAY I AGREE WITH IT, since I myself was the primary parent for my two children. The only things I didn’t do was give birth and nurse them. If you WANT PARITY FOR MEN IN CHILD CUSTODY, then by damn, give women parity in other areas and stop your bitchin’ and whinin’ The plain fact is that feminist organizations have promoted the use of quotas to favor women, without regard to the issue of different abilities in the two

sexes. Yes they have. And you are doing the perfectly stupid reactionary nonsense of behaving JUST LIKE THEM. You are making claims that are phony……just as phony as anything they could come up with. http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm "Selection among qualified and unqualified candidates. The strongest form of preferential selection occurs when unqualified female or minority members are chosen over other candidates who are qualified. Although affirmative action is sometimes mistakenly equated with this form of preferential treatment, federal regulations explicitly prohibit affirmative action programs in which unqualified or unneeded employees are hired (Bureau of National Affairs, 1979). " Notice that last sentence? However, there are no "masculinist" organizations to promote the valid interests of men.

I beg your pardon? First of all white male privelege was so pervasive it was not even white males are getting their noses rubbed in it, and squealing like little piggies pulled off the sow’s titty. Only the fact is they haven’t been. They have simply notices OTHERS WISH TO BE FED AS WELL. And it makes them sore and feeling like their priveledge is no longer priveledged. And that is as it should be. No men’s organizations….R R R R … A google on "men’s rights" resulted in this output: Results 1 – 10 of about 6,270,000 for men’s rights. Don’t make me laugh. You are just another whiner willing to shade the than face it that you have ONE issue you need to focus on: How to get child custody parity for men. Well I’ll tell you. Stump for parity for women in all other areas and teach boys how to do child care and homemaking as little children and watch it all change.    As for your allegations of "lying," Kane, I think of two things.  One is the poster in the news group I am following, alt.child-support, who used to have as his signature line a jocular reference to feminist claims about the frequency of violence against women: "Every 15 seconds a feminist in the U.S. tells a lie."

Odd, I can come up with DOJ-FBI stats to support my claim. Can your jocular fellow come up with stats to prove his? The other is the comment, by George Bernard Shaw, I think, that "the liar’s punishment is not so much that he is not believed, as that he cannot believe anyone else."  The feminist movement in the U.S. has a long, and well-documented history of lying.

So that gives you the moral imperative to do the same? How useful is THAT to promoting your cause of parity in child custody?   In fact, lying by feminists and domestic violence activists is one of the central themes in Christina Hoff Sommers’ book.  She asks WHY so much of feminist propaganda consists of plain, old-fashioned (and often easily discoverable) lies.  She concludes that those who tell these falsehoods think of them as "noble lies," that are justified by the importance of promoting the feminist cause.  I would add another explanation.  My supplementary explanation is that these lies continue because there is no "masculinist" group to call attention to them.

I love this. She accuses others of lying but is quite willing to project meaning into their "lies" rather than quote. This get’s funnier by the moment. The most productive propagandists know the biggest lie is the one most likely believed, especially if repeated. No "masculinist" group to call attentiong to them? R R R R Try this: 156,000 Hits. Want to guess who authored most of the results? It wasn’t women for the most part. This is just the first page of results: "Welcome to the Domain of Patriarchy on the Internet Robert Sheaffer. Refuting the Most Common Feminist Lies and Pseudo-Scholarship. … Every Seven Seconds, a Feminist tells a Lie about Domestic Violence. … www.debunker.com/patriarchy.html – 28k – Cached – Similar pages Feminist Lies Exposed … Overall Violence, 39.1, 26.3. Miscellaneous Rants. Feminist Lies Exposed. … Everyday, young men have their self esteem aggressively assaulted by feminist lies. … mywebpages.comcast.net/ssewell38/male.htm – 56k – Cached – Similar pages Feminist Lies and Misinformation on Domestic Violence Sub-Index: Statistics. Feminist Misinformation on Domestic Violence. … More links on different topics from a dissident feminist. Another collection. … www.gabnet.com/lit/deich5e.htm – 17k – Cached – Similar pages Feminist Lies Links to Infamous Feminist Lies. Feminism-abomination before God. … Feminist Lies Exposed … read more »

Response:

    My sense is that nothing I say is going to convince you, Kane.  Many of the "citations" you say you want can be found in Christina Hoff Sommers’ book.  You can hardly have had time to read it properly since I recommended it to you yesterday.     I have no wish to prolong this discussion with you, and risk boring everyone else.  So this will be my last exchange with you on the subject of double standards.  I’ll content myself with listing the following items, in the interests of enlarging the horizons (raising the consciousness) of those who WANT to have their horizons enlarged: — The point to my statement about talents and deficiencies not being randomly distributed between the two sexes was, I thought, transparently clear.  There is no reason to expect that the distribution of the sexes in different professions will be 50/50, or perhaps anywhere near that proportion.  That doesn’t reflect discrimination against women.  It reflects the fact that, overall, the talents of the two sexes are differently distributed. — I’m not going to go to all the time and trouble to prove the obvious, that for many years in the U.S. there have been affirmative action (quota) programs designed to increase the proportion of women in various jobs.  I don’t intend either to take the time and trouble to prove that the earth is round, not flat. — My point about the application of quotas in situations where they favor women was also perfectly clear.  No one is allowed to resist quotas that favor women by saying that women don’t have the qualifications or aptitude for the positions in question.  In fact, as in the case of firefighting jobs in many locations, longstanding physical rules were changed to ensure that more women could qualify.  So why should anyone be allowed to get away with your argument in favor of continuing the glass ceiling on paternal custody, that men don’t have "the ability to nurture small children."  The plain fact is that feminist organizations have promoted the use of quotas to favor women, without regard to the issue of different abilities in the two sexes. However, there are no "masculinist" organizations to promote the valid interests of men.     As for your allegations of "lying," Kane, I think of two things.  One is the poster in the news group I am following, alt.child-support, who used to have as his signature line a jocular reference to feminist claims about the frequency of violence against women: "Every 15 seconds a feminist in the U.S. tells a lie."  The other is the comment, by George Bernard Shaw, I think, that "the liar’s punishment is not so much that he is not believed, as that he cannot believe anyone else."  The feminist movement in the U.S. has a long, and well-documented history of lying.     In fact, lying by feminists and domestic violence activists is one of the central themes in Christina Hoff Sommers’ book.  She asks WHY so much of feminist propaganda consists of plain, old-fashioned (and often easily discoverable) lies.  She concludes that those who tell these falsehoods think of them as "noble lies," that are justified by the importance of promoting the feminist cause.  I would add another explanation.  My supplementary explanation is that these lies continue because there is no "masculinist" group to call attention to them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All) Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else? The society of humans is sexist against male children in all cultures and always has been. R R R R Good’un! Why do news headlines use the terms "student", "spouse", or "parent" when a girl or woman, or mother does something wrong but use the terms "boy", "husband", or "father" when a boy, man, or father does something wrong? We live in a boy-hating, girl-respecting society. It’s that long string of U.S. Presidents (and other countries) that prove that conclusively. That and men finally being allowed to vote, and manage their own financial affairs. Next we must take on the insidious propensity for women to rape men and beat and kill them. Kane    Kane’s effort to be ironic shouldn’t fool anyone.  The fundamental reality in U.S. society for many years has been that virtually all the information we see in the media and elsewhere is filtered through a feminist, anti-male mechanism. What, who, and how please. Citations would be nice. Simple reading and watching media proves you wrong again and again. So people can be deceived by comments such as Kane’s, simply because they don’t know what’s happening on the other side of the coin. As I said, some citations would help. And I hardly wish people to be decieved. I’d like them to be properly informed instead of propagadized.    As for the specific points she mentions: (1) There are plenty of indications from research and objective observation that it’s highly misleading to think that talents (and defects) are randomly distributed between the two sexes. There has to be a point to that statement. So there’s no reason to expect that 50 percent of any profession should be occupied by members of one sex or the other. That isn’t the problem. What is the problem is that those professions that attract more women for their "natrual attributes" tends to be lowpaid, while those that attract men seem to be highpaid. In fact, when enough men invade a "female" profession the pay rate tends to rise, and when women invade a "male" profession, for the rate to fall. Women have had the right to vote in the U.S. for many, many years, Women were denied the right to vote for many year, were treated as chattel, with no economic power whatsoever. Hence MEN have created streams of intergenerational wealth that women get a very very late start on. and — far from there being discrimination against women in jobs or politics — there is discrimination in their favor, through affirmative action (quota) programs of one kind or another. How about some citations. However, it is very, very obvious that statistical disparities between the sexes count for nothing, when application of quota programs would favor males (e.g. most notably in the child custody area). That has a great deal more to do with ability to nurture small children. Men get just about zero childhood prep for that, while females get a great deal of child care prep. (2) As for rape and other forms of violence, for years its extent has been grossly exaggerated by feminists in the U.S. No citations? The reason for this exaggeration is to solidify the image of women as the helpless victims of men, and to get remedial action that will put men at a further disadvantage relative to women. BS hockey. Programs from rape recovery stress quite the opposite, that is they focus on empowerment by prosecuting the rapist and by peer support, often other women who have been raped. Also you will find that a great many women are taking rape prevention classes. If they wanted to be seen as helpless victims they would not do this. Try overpowering my wife sometime, for instance. You will fly through the air with the greatest of ease and likely be nursing a broken bone or two on the trip. There’s plenty of data about this, for those who want to find out. Why not cite it then? Suffice it to say that anyone who doubts this exaggeration should look at the book "Who Stole Feminism?" by Christina Hoff Sommers. It’s particularly interesting to see how Straus and Gelles, the leading researchers on domestic violence, were treated by DV activists when they produced evidence that such violence is by no means a one-way street. There is no question that women do batter men. The difference is in the rate and the degree of injury.  And the changes in reporting. Here, next time try posting something to support your claims…this is from a MEN’s Website and about female batterers….it doesn’t support your claim. http://www.menweb.org/batnytim.htm (3) In the specific area of rape, there’s a major problem of men being raped in prison, and in some cases contracting AIDS as a result.  However, this problem was entirely ignored until very recently, and even treated as a joke, or as part of the penalty that criminals should expect. What has that to do with the issue of men raping and battering women? I do NOT recall ever taking male rape as a joke, just as I do not take female rape as a joke. And this "very recently" you mention?

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=prison+rape+earliest… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try `73, `82,    There’s far more that could be said on this, but I’ll mention only one episode that to me encapsulates the entire problem.  A few years ago Rep. Connie Morella (R-Md.) —  now no longer in Congress — was active on the House Science Committee.  She called attention very forcefully to the statistical disparity in numbers of men and women in science and technology, and had a whole commission of enquiry set up on this.  However,

… read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All) Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else? The society of humans is sexist against male children in all cultures and always has been. R R R R Good’un! Why do news headlines use the terms "student", "spouse", or "parent" when a girl or woman, or mother does something wrong but use the terms "boy", "husband", or "father" when a boy, man, or father does something wrong? We live in a boy-hating, girl-respecting society. It’s that long string of U.S. Presidents (and other countries) that prove that conclusively. That and men finally being allowed to vote, and manage their own financial affairs. Next we must take on the insidious propensity for women to rape men and beat and kill them. Kane    Kane’s effort to be ironic shouldn’t fool anyone.  The fundamental reality in U.S. society for many years has been that virtually all the information we see in the media and elsewhere is filtered through a feminist, anti-male mechanism.

What, who, and how please. Citations would be nice. Simple reading and watching media proves you wrong again and again. So people can be deceived by comments such as Kane’s, simply because they don’t know what’s happening on the other side of the coin.

As I said, some citations would help. And I hardly wish people to be decieved. I’d like them to be properly informed instead of propagadized.    As for the specific points she mentions: (1) There are plenty of indications from research and objective observation that it’s highly misleading to think that talents (and defects) are randomly distributed between the two sexes.  

There has to be a point to that statement. So there’s no reason to expect that 50 percent of any profession should be occupied by members of one sex or the other.

That isn’t the problem. What is the problem is that those professions that attract more women for their "natrual attributes" tends to be lowpaid, while those that attract men seem to be highpaid. In fact, when enough men invade a "female" profession the pay rate tends to rise, and when women invade a "male" profession, for the rate to fall. Women have had the right to vote in the U.S. for many, many years,

Women were denied the right to vote for many year, were treated as chattel, with no economic power whatsoever. Hence MEN have created streams of intergenerational wealth that women get a very very late start on. and — far from there being discrimination against women in jobs or politics — there is discrimination in their favor, through affirmative action (quota) programs of one kind or another.  

How about some citations. However, it is very, very obvious that statistical disparities between the sexes count for nothing, when application of quota programs would favor males (e.g. most notably in the child custody area).

That has a great deal more to do with ability to nurture small children. Men get just about zero childhood prep for that, while females get a great deal of child care prep. (2) As for rape and other forms of violence, for years its extent has been grossly exaggerated by feminists in the U.S.  

No citations? The reason for this exaggeration is to solidify the image of women as the helpless victims of men, and to get remedial action that will put men at a further disadvantage relative to women.  

BS hockey. Programs from rape recovery stress quite the opposite, that is they focus on empowerment by prosecuting the rapist and by peer support, often other women who have been raped. Also you will find that a great many women are taking rape prevention classes. If they wanted to be seen as helpless victims they would not do this. Try overpowering my wife sometime, for instance. You will fly through the air with the greatest of ease and likely be nursing a broken bone or two on the trip. There’s plenty of data about this, for those who want to find out.  

Why not cite it then? Suffice it to say that anyone who doubts this exaggeration should look at the book "Who Stole Feminism?" by Christina Hoff Sommers. It’s particularly interesting to see how Straus and Gelles, the leading researchers on domestic violence, were treated by DV activists when they produced evidence that such violence is by no means a one-way street.

There is no question that women do batter men. The difference is in the rate and the degree of injury.  And the changes in reporting. Here, next time try posting something to support your claims…this is from a MEN’s Website and about female batterers….it doesn’t support your claim. http://www.menweb.org/batnytim.htm (3) In the specific area of rape, there’s a major problem of men being raped in prison, and in some cases contracting AIDS as a result.  However, this problem was entirely ignored until very recently, and even treated as a joke, or as part of the penalty that criminals should expect.

What has that to do with the issue of men raping and battering women? I do NOT recall ever taking male rape as a joke, just as I do not take female rape as a joke. And this "very recently" you mention? http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=prison+rape+earliest… Try `73, `82, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    There’s far more that could be said on this, but I’ll mention only one episode that to me encapsulates the entire problem.  A few years ago Rep. Connie Morella (R-Md.) —  now no longer in Congress — was active on the House Science Committee.  She called attention very forcefully to the statistical disparity in numbers of men and women in science and technology, and had a whole commission of enquiry set up on this.  However, simultaneously, she was pushing a NOW-endorsed measure designed to make joint custody more difficult, even though the statistical disparity in custody is far more marked than it is in science and technology.  The difference is that men, not women, are at a disadvantage when it comes to getting custody of their children.  Statistical disparities count when focusing on them gets advantages for women.

I would suppose that has something to do with the centuries of inequity and attempts to right the wrongs. They don’t count when men would benefit.

You have cited one instance where it might be argued that men are disavantaged. Does that equate wiht men being disadvantaged in all the other areas you mention…..where it is patently false? Here’s the thing about reform. If you really mean to do it, DON’T LIE. Don’t exaggerate. Don’t pretend that there isn’t a disparity in FAVOR of men. You are dissapating your power by NOT staying focused on one issue, child custody. If you would do so, people may take you seriously. Every lie you are caught in diminishes your credibility and the help you might get from others. Stop the nonsense. Or maybe you don’t really want to get reform in the area you mention last, but is pretty obviously first in your mind….child custody. Kane

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else? The society of humans is sexist against male children in all cultures and always has been. R R R R Good’un! Why do news headlines use the terms "student", "spouse", or "parent" when a girl or woman, or mother does something wrong but use the terms "boy", "husband", or "father" when a boy, man, or father does something wrong? We live in a boy-hating, girl-respecting society. It’s that long string of U.S. Presidents (and other countries) that prove that conclusively. That and men finally being allowed to vote, and manage their own financial affairs. Next we must take on the insidious propensity for women to rape men and beat and kill them. Kane

    Kane’s effort to be ironic shouldn’t fool anyone.  The fundamental reality in U.S. society for many years has been that virtually all the information we see in the media and elsewhere is filtered through a feminist, anti-male mechanism.  So people can be deceived by comments such as Kane’s, simply because they don’t know what’s happening on the other side of the coin.     As for the specific points she mentions: (1) There are plenty of indications from research and objective observation that it’s highly misleading to think that talents (and defects) are randomly distributed between the two sexes.  So there’s no reason to expect that 50 percent of any profession should be occupied by members of one sex or the other. Women have had the right to vote in the U.S. for many, many years, and — far from there being discrimination against women in jobs or politics — there is discrimination in their favor, through affirmative action (quota) programs of one kind or another.  However, it is very, very obvious that statistical disparities between the sexes count for nothing, when application of quota programs would favor males (e.g. most notably in the child custody area). (2) As for rape and other forms of violence, for years its extent has been grossly exaggerated by feminists in the U.S.  The reason for this exaggeration is to solidify the image of women as the helpless victims of men, and to get remedial action that will put men at a further disadvantage relative to women.  There’s plenty of data about this, for those who want to find out.  Suffice it to say that anyone who doubts this exaggeration should look at the book "Who Stole Feminism?" by Christina Hoff Sommers.  It’s particularly interesting to see how Straus and Gelles, the leading researchers on domestic violence, were treated by DV activists when they produced evidence that such violence is by no means a one-way street. (3) In the specific area of rape, there’s a major problem of men being raped in prison, and in some cases contracting AIDS as a result.  However, this problem was entirely ignored until very recently, and even treated as a joke, or as part of the penalty that criminals should expect.     There’s far more that could be said on this, but I’ll mention only one episode that to me encapsulates the entire problem.  A few years ago Rep. Connie Morella (R-Md.) —  now no longer in Congress — was active on the House Science Committee.  She called attention very forcefully to the statistical disparity in numbers of men and women in science and technology, and had a whole commission of enquiry set up on this.  However, simultaneously, she was pushing a NOW-endorsed measure designed to make joint custody more difficult, even though the statistical disparity in custody is far more marked than it is in science and technology.  The difference is that men, not women, are at a disadvantage when it comes to getting custody of their children.  Statistical disparities count when focusing on them gets advantages for women.  They don’t count when men would benefit.

Response:

Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else?

The society of humans is sexist against male children in all cultures and always has been. Why do news headlines use the terms "student", "spouse", or "parent" when a girl or woman, or mother does something wrong but use the terms "boy", "husband", or "father" when a boy, man, or father does something wrong?

We live in a boy-hating, girl-respecting society.

Response:

Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else? The society of humans is sexist against male children in all cultures and always has been.

R R R R Good’un! Why do news headlines use the terms "student", "spouse", or "parent" when a girl or woman, or mother does something wrong but use the terms "boy", "husband", or "father" when a boy, man, or father does something wrong? We live in a boy-hating, girl-respecting society.

It’s that long string of U.S. Presidents (and other countries) that prove that conclusively. That and men finally being allowed to vote, and manage their own financial affairs. Next we must take on the insidious propensity for women to rape men and beat and kill them. Kane

Response:

If I or my son has raised the lid, I use a wise combination of my eyes and brain to decipher this and LOWER the seat prior to sitting down.  WOW! thats tuff.

Blammo, there it is. It’s just some more control bullshit, disguised as "men arent considerate towards women" when the answer is simply for women to take more control of their own responsibilities.

Response:

Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down? Because men don’t have to rearrange half their wardrobe and sit to pee. Try, for about a week, every time you have to pee, doing so sitting down. You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat.

Like no man has ever sat down on a toilet. I guess you think men crap standing up? this is about the stupidest fucking thing I’ve read on here all morning, and thats saying something. Why do women dress in makeup, short skirts, bare midriffs, and low-cut blouses but complain about men that stare at them? Because it isn’t nice to stare, and it isn’t nice for women to want you to. So they are caught in the double standard.

WHICH SOME OF THEM CONTINUALY PLAY TO GET EVEN MORE ATTENTION. I have no choice, i have to start calling that the "empowered victim syndrome".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Double Standards: Ever Wonder Why? May 28, 2003 — —- by Thomas Simon — —- Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down? Because men don’t have to rearrange half their wardrobe and sit to pee. Try, for about a week, every time you have to pee, doing so sitting down. You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat. Women don’t "have to."  Women WANT to, because it’s fashionable in western culture.  Most of the women in the world stand up. http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html Well..now that I’m here I guess this deserves a comment or two. Woman in other countries do stand up…. well.. in a bent forward position.. not a crouch.  

Not for anatomical reasons.  If a female tilts her ass forward she can pee farther forward than men, on average.  Don’t get into a pissing contest with a female.  She’ll win.  Few western women have ever even tried, but plumbing manufacturers who know about such things, and equal pissing rights web sites like the above have the facts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One reason is the absence of toliets as we know them.. nothing to sit on.   I don’t know what we did before Mr. Crapper came along… or the guy who invented two-holers.  Can you imagine that… two people taking a dump at that same time?  Sounds like some kinda abuse there days. My last comment… if one read the article… urine is sterile. No germs… no disease.  That means it’s even drinkable without harm.    I sorta laugh at everyone who buys into this phobia about washing their hands after they pee.  Well.. men, anyway. The old swab jockies remember well.. wash your hands before ya pee…  that keeps the front of your white pants clean.  Afterward… not such a big deal…  unless IT’s  been somewhere since your last shower…:-)… but it’s my understanding…even THAT is not harmful to one’s health.  Gosh… we’d all be dead or dying. As for the toilet seat.. heck.. that’s nothing compared to which way the toilet paper comes off the roll.  Not to worry too much.. many cultures don’t use nuttin but their hand…. one way to settle arguement,  right?

The whole controversy, and decades of females bitching about "put the seat down" would be solved if homes had plumbing for men.   It’s our home too. Grandpa said never hit or argue with a lady.  But, if they hit or curse you.. they ain’t a lady no more.  Come to think about it.. there  aren’t many ladies around, are there? bobb

You sure got a point there. Bob — When did we divide into sides? "As president, I will put American government and our legal system back on the side of women."  John Kerry, leading Democratic candidate for President. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/women/ [Bob does not advocate any illegal, seditious, or immoral acts.  All posts are for discussion, rhetorical, or humorous purposes only.]

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Double Standards: Ever Wonder Why? May 28, 2003 — —- by Thomas Simon — —- Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down? Because men don’t have to rearrange half their wardrobe and sit to pee. Try, for about a week, every time you have to pee, doing so sitting down. You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat. Women don’t "have to."  Women WANT to, because it’s fashionable in western culture.  Most of the women in the world stand up. http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html

Well..now that I’m here I guess this deserves a comment or two. Woman in other countries do stand up…. well.. in a bent forward position.. not a crouch.  One reason is the absence of toliets as we know them.. nothing to sit on.   I don’t know what we did before Mr. Crapper came along… or the guy who invented two-holers.  Can you imagine that… two people taking a dump at that same time?  Sounds like some kinda abuse there days. My last comment… if one read the article… urine is sterile. No germs… no disease.  That means it’s even drinkable without harm.    I sorta laugh at everyone who buys into this phobia about washing their hands after they pee.  Well.. men, anyway. The old swab jockies remember well.. wash your hands before ya pee…  that keeps the front of your white pants clean.  Afterward… not such a big deal…  unless IT’s  been somewhere since your last shower…:-)… but it’s my understanding…even THAT is not harmful to one’s health.  Gosh… we’d all be dead or dying. As for the toilet seat.. heck.. that’s nothing compared to which way the toilet paper comes off the roll.  Not to worry too much.. many cultures don’t use nuttin but their hand…. one way to settle arguement,  right? Grandpa said never hit or argue with a lady.  But, if they hit or curse you.. they ain’t a lady no more.  Come to think about it.. there  aren’t many ladies around, are there? bobb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do women complain about men that only want one thing, but men don’t complain about women that want everything? I’ve not had women complain to me, except laughingly, about that one thing men want. I have a hunch you ask because you get turned down a lot. Hell, I get asked a lot. Men don’t complain about women that want everything? You are doing so, and you have got a lot of male heads bobbing up and down like a wobble doll. Typical female dodge. Why do women have the choice between abortion, adoption, dropping an unwanted baby off at a hospital, raising the child with a father, or raising the child without a father, but the only choice men have is to agree? When it takes you nine months, and 17 more years to finish the fun you will have a answer. As it is……. Five minutes of play and you can zip up, light up, and light out. Any further questions on this one? The five minutes might be why you get turned down a lot, too. IOW:  Women deserve all the rights because women are women and men are not women.  What total sexism. Why do women dress in makeup, short skirts, bare midriffs, and low-cut blouses but complain about men that stare at them? Because it isn’t nice to stare, and it isn’t nice for women to want you to. So they are caught in the double standard. The answer is to dress them in sacks and beat any man that does star….oh wait, that’s been done. That what you want, or can you be grateful for the great views you get despite the "don’t start" game. Peek. Women do it to men all the time. I catch then ogling my "package" from time to…and we agree not to get hinkey about the male female games that are so much fun. You are a grouch. And you spoil the fun. If she dresses like a slut, treat her as one.   Why do we pretend that men are the ones that abuse children when it is a well-known fact that women abuse children more than men? Odd, that’s not a problem among the informed. I take you aren’t among. Odd, that’s a big problem among the politicians and the "Women’s march for rights." Of course a feminazi doesn’t comprehend the problem. If single mothers have it so bad, why do women initiate about eighty percent of divorces and routinely commit perjury to win custody? Probably in reaction to, "don’t worry, I’ll pull out in time" and other little lies men tell and forget they tell to get that one thing you think women shouldn’t complain about. LOL.  And females (but not men) have had "a woman’s right to choose since today’s grandmothers were in high school.  Still blaming men though aren’t you bigot.  "The devil made me do it." Why do we have a Violence Against Women Act but nothing for men when women cause domestic violence just as often as men? First, it’s not true that women do it just as often, and second I’d trade hits to the head with any women and give her first licks, and if we both hit as hard as we can, I’ll have a headache and she’ll be dead. Yep, only violence against women matters to that bigot.  So typical and so misandrist. Remainder of redundant misandry snipped. Bob — When did we divide into sides? "As president, I will put American government and our legal system back on the side of women."  John Kerry, leading Democratic candidate for President. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/women/ [Bob does not advocate any illegal, seditious, or immoral acts.  All posts are for discussion, rhetorical, or humorous purposes only.]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Double Standards: Ever Wonder Why? May 28, 2003 —- by Thomas Simon —- Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down? Because men don’t have to rearrange half their wardrobe and sit to pee. Try, for about a week, every time you have to pee, doing so sitting down. You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat.

who gives a fuck what women like or dont like Why do women complain about men that only want one thing, but men don’t complain about women that want everything? I’ve not had women complain to me, except laughingly, about that one thing men want. I have a hunch you ask because you get turned down a lot. Hell, I get asked a lot.

mental masturbation Men don’t complain about women that want everything? You are doing so, and you have got a lot of male heads bobbing up and down like a wobble doll. Why do women have the choice between abortion, adoption, dropping an unwanted baby off at a hospital, raising the child with a father, or raising the child without a father, but the only choice men have is to agree? When it takes you nine months, and 17 more years to finish the fun you will have a answer. As it is…….

she can say NO, whats so fucking hard about that? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Five minutes of play and you can zip up, light up, and light out. Any further questions on this one? The five minutes might be why you get turned down a lot, too. Why do women dress in makeup, short skirts, bare midriffs, and low-cut blouses but complain about men that stare at them? Because it isn’t nice to stare, and it isn’t nice for women to want you to. So they are caught in the double standard. The answer is to dress them in sacks and beat any man that does star….oh wait, that’s been done. That what you want, or can you be grateful for the great views you get despite the "don’t start" game. Peek. Women do it to men all the time. I catch then ogling my "package" from time to…and we agree not to get hinkey about the male female games that are so much fun. You are a grouch. And you spoil the fun.

more mental masturbation, you wish they were staring at you, asshole.   Why do we pretend that men are the ones that abuse children when it  is a well-known fact that women abuse children more than men? Odd, that’s not a problem among the informed. I take you aren’t among. If single mothers have it so bad, why do women initiate about eighty percent of divorces and routinely commit perjury to win custody? Probably in reaction to, "don’t worry, I’ll pull out in time" and other little lies men tell and forget they tell to get that one thing you think women shouldn’t complain about.

oh like when they say, im on the pill its ok, grow up asshole Why do we have a Violence Against Women Act but nothing for men when women cause domestic violence just as often as men? First, it’s not true that women do it just as often, and second I’d trade hits to the head with any women and give her first licks, and if we both hit as hard as we can, I’ll have a headache and she’ll be dead.

she would probably beat you asshole All you have to do is check out the fatalities in the morbidity tables from the NIH or the FBI on homicides, and who the perps are in male female encounters that leave one of them dead. If you are going to be funny, at least don’t lie.

must be hard when your not funny, and lie Why is it funny when a woman kicks a man in the groin but terrible if a man did the same to a woman – won’t the man be in more pain? Is that why men so often, when the hit a women, go for the stomach and head?

can you translate that from yardtalk please Why is it terrible for a woman to be raped once but funny when male prisoners get raped over and over? Yeah, why don’t those men just lay back and enjoy it?

oh like you have!! Why is a man a wimp if he lets his wife beat up on him but a criminal if he defends himself? Who says he’s a wimp? Stupid maybe. Cops that are up to the current standards in training on domestic violence are quite aware men can be victimized.

dream on asshole Why does women’s health get much more attention when men die about seven years younger than women? Because men are stupid about their health? Women get more "health attention" because they pay more attention to their health. Next question?

its because they are weak and cant look after themselves Why do we complain about legislators being mostly male when they always promote women’s rights and never promote men’s rights? Gosh. Maybe the answer lies in the answer to your previous claim and question: http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/officeofmenshealth.html#resour… And possibly your perception of "men’s rights" is skewed by you excluding all the legislation that passes that benefits men to the exclusion of women. Most, for instance that impacts industry doesn’t benefit women because they don’t dominate those industries. Try the good ol’ boy’s club, oil.

whats stopping women looking for oil, then drilling for it, all own their own? Why is it sexist to have clubs for only men but empowering to have them for only women? Exclusive men’s clubs don’t empower men? Why do I think you are "whining like a woman?"

because its your sexual fantasy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If women only make 72 cents for the same work where a man earns a dollar, why don’t companies hire only women and put the competition out of business? Because then men would make 0 cents for every dollar women make and you would drown out the whining that women do with your sobbing. How do police know who to arrest when there is a domestic disturbance involving lesbians? Easy. In many states they will arrest both, and that goes for hetero DV too. Cops tend to arrest the least injured, but if both will make a complaint, both will be charged. Any more questions on domestic violence arrest rates should be routed to research on the matter. Or call your local police department for their policy. Arrests of females is on the rise, percentage wise, and there is that one little problem of size and strength and who hits who disparity? Women are lousy hitters usually. Lack of training. It’s getting better though. Women’s athletics programs will teach women better aim and controlling direction of force. Why do married women complain that their husbands don’t want to change a baby’s diaper but divorced women say their ex-husbands can’t take care of a child? Because men don’t want to change a diaper?

and you state this fact on? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do men that don’t pay child support go to prison but nothing ever happens to women that don’t allow visitation? Could be similar to those orders of protection women get against husbands that don’t get arrested for violations and so often kill the women that got one. as for visitation issues http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:5-qWk-jHhvgJ:www.tsc.state.tn.us/o… If women-in-the-military is such a good thing, why don’t they have to register for the draft? Because you can kill all but one of the men and still recover the population over time. Kill all but one of the women and she will die trying to recover the population by her self.

not a valid excuse – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else? Wherever did you get that idea? First, girls are not actually underperforming boys out of lack of skill…it’s a social issue…and we ARE concerned about the boys underperforming. Look it up: http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/UMD-Projects/MCTP/Essays/WomenAnd… http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:MqIgOtU_nP0J:www.decs.act.gov.au… Why do fathers have to pay the mother to take his children away from him in divorce? Because he has more money than the mother?

is that the case in every divorce? Why is it legal for women to lie to men about who the father of a baby is to get child support, The lie isn’t legal, but you did, finally, <sigh get one right. Congrats. but a crime if she tells the same lie to the government to get Social Security or military benefits? How come the legislators let this go by? Try answering a few questions instead of just asking them, rhetorically….you seem to be whining.

anothe r sexual fantsy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do women have to prove they spent the money on the children when they collect welfare They do? but don’t have to do the same when they collect child support? They don’t? http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=child+support+squand… at this google result I see three cases on just such a question. In other words, it’s not being ignored. Why do we have to cut men’s sports that have fans to create women’s sports that don’t?

… read more »

Response:

You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat. Just curious – why can’t they put the seat down *before* holding pants and squatting?  

No bitching, finger pointing,  indignant foot tapping. "The best proof of intelligent life in space is that it hasn’t come here." – Sir Arthur C. Clarke

Response:

actually – I am first to work and last out – so when I get in the toliet seats are up (been cleaned) and when I leave – same deal. Never ever been a biggie to me – I figure the bigger person puts the seat back for the other to us. ah but now – a male-less household  so I can stand the dern thing on it’s side if I want hehehe deb.

Response:

Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down? Because men don’t have to rearrange half their wardrobe and sit to pee. Try, for about a week, every time you have to pee, doing so sitting down. You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat.

Maybe these stupid ass women should SIT rather than try to hover over the damn seat. As to sitting while peeing, I do 90% of the time, due to a medical condition its just easier to sit and maybe take care of two things at once. If I or my son has raised the lid, I use a wise combination of my eyes and brain to decipher this and LOWER the seat prior to sitting down.  WOW! thats tuff.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Double Standards: Ever Wonder Why? May 28, 2003 —- by Thomas Simon —- Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down? Because men don’t have to rearrange half their wardrobe and sit to pee. Try, for about a week, every time you have to pee, doing so sitting down. You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat.

Women don’t "have to."  Women WANT to, because it’s fashionable in western culture.  Most of the women in the world stand up. http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html Why do women complain about men that only want one thing, but men don’t complain about women that want everything? I’ve not had women complain to me, except laughingly, about that one thing men want. I have a hunch you ask because you get turned down a lot. Hell, I get asked a lot. Men don’t complain about women that want everything? You are doing so, and you have got a lot of male heads bobbing up and down like a wobble doll.

Typical female dodge. Why do women have the choice between abortion, adoption, dropping an unwanted baby off at a hospital, raising the child with a father, or raising the child without a father, but the only choice men have is to agree? When it takes you nine months, and 17 more years to finish the fun you will have a answer. As it is……. Five minutes of play and you can zip up, light up, and light out. Any further questions on this one? The five minutes might be why you get turned down a lot, too.

IOW:  Women deserve all the rights because women are women and men are not women.  What total sexism. Why do women dress in makeup, short skirts, bare midriffs, and low-cut blouses but complain about men that stare at them? Because it isn’t nice to stare, and it isn’t nice for women to want you to. So they are caught in the double standard. The answer is to dress them in sacks and beat any man that does star….oh wait, that’s been done. That what you want, or can you be grateful for the great views you get despite the "don’t start" game. Peek. Women do it to men all the time. I catch then ogling my "package" from time to…and we agree not to get hinkey about the male female games that are so much fun. You are a grouch. And you spoil the fun.

If she dresses like a slut, treat her as one.   Why do we pretend that men are the ones that abuse children when it is a well-known fact that women abuse children more than men? Odd, that’s not a problem among the informed. I take you aren’t among.

Odd, that’s a big problem among the politicians and the "Women’s march for rights." Of course a feminazi doesn’t comprehend the problem. If single mothers have it so bad, why do women initiate about eighty percent of divorces and routinely commit perjury to win custody? Probably in reaction to, "don’t worry, I’ll pull out in time" and other little lies men tell and forget they tell to get that one thing you think women shouldn’t complain about.

LOL.  And females (but not men) have had "a woman’s right to choose since today’s grandmothers were in high school.  Still blaming men though aren’t you bigot.  "The devil made me do it." Why do we have a Violence Against Women Act but nothing for men when women cause domestic violence just as often as men? First, it’s not true that women do it just as often, and second I’d trade hits to the head with any women and give her first licks, and if we both hit as hard as we can, I’ll have a headache and she’ll be dead.

Yep, only violence against women matters to that bigot.  So typical and so misandrist. Remainder of redundant misandry snipped. Bob — When did we divide into sides? "As president, I will put American government and our legal system back on the side of women."  John Kerry, leading Democratic candidate for President. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/women/ [Bob does not advocate any illegal, seditious, or immoral acts.  All posts are for discussion, rhetorical, or humorous purposes only.]

Response:

Great post.. cuz it’s thought provoking. The answer to your question is…   white, or perhaps all men. are stupid. The had the power and  control, along with the ability and ambitiion to building a great nation from nothing..

From nothing? Half a continents of some of the riches resources in the world, huge deposits of iron, coal, oil, vast forests, gold, silver, and other industrial minerals in abundance, great plains riich in top soil as deep as fifty feet and more, great river valleys of more rich soil, and a few hundred years of slavery to work all this for us and you say it’s from "nothing?" Some of you, whitey, really are ignorant and arrogant beyond reckoning. How DO you do it? and ended up giving away the store.

What has been given away? The rest of the planet is just competitive. In time, if we can wise up, this planet will be a paradise for each of us on it. But not YOUR way, stupid. YOUR way makes everyone want to kill us more than trade with us. They’d like to have parity with us, but through our political meddling they cannot overthrow their masters. It don’t end there.. they are now giving it away to other nations and keep nothing for themselves.

Show us the what we have given away that we no longer have. I want some. So far though I’ve got an abundance, without being a rich man, with relative ease compared to about 9/10ths of the planets people. Most of what I enjoy without having to think about it is the product of the labors of the very poor who cannot feed their children more than a meal a day. My clothes. My geegaws and baubles that I give as gifts to others (check out the gem and jewelry trade some day..most imported from shops that use children of 5 to 10 years old for little more than a few scraps of food). Our cookware, our decorator’s stock in trade, most of the products made with chemicals. LOOK at the lables. See where things are actually made. And by who bobb

What an insufferable ignorant twit you are. Kane

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Double Standards: Ever Wonder Why? May 28, 2003 —- by Thomas Simon —- Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down?

Because men don’t have to rearrange half their wardrobe and sit to pee. Try, for about a week, every time you have to pee, doing so sitting down. You’ll start to appreciate what to you now is the small annoyance of having to but the seat down while trying to hold your pants up as you squat. Why do women complain about men that only want one thing, but men don’t complain about women that want everything?

I’ve not had women complain to me, except laughingly, about that one thing men want. I have a hunch you ask because you get turned down a lot. Hell, I get asked a lot. Men don’t complain about women that want everything? You are doing so, and you have got a lot of male heads bobbing up and down like a wobble doll. Why do women have the choice between abortion, adoption, dropping an unwanted baby off at a hospital, raising the child with a father, or raising the child without a father, but the only choice men have is to agree?

When it takes you nine months, and 17 more years to finish the fun you will have a answer. As it is……. Five minutes of play and you can zip up, light up, and light out. Any further questions on this one? The five minutes might be why you get turned down a lot, too. Why do women dress in makeup, short skirts, bare midriffs, and low-cut blouses but complain about men that stare at them?

Because it isn’t nice to stare, and it isn’t nice for women to want you to. So they are caught in the double standard. The answer is to dress them in sacks and beat any man that does star….oh wait, that’s been done. That what you want, or can you be grateful for the great views you get despite the "don’t start" game. Peek. Women do it to men all the time. I catch then ogling my "package" from time to…and we agree not to get hinkey about the male female games that are so much fun. You are a grouch. And you spoil the fun.   Why do we pretend that men are the ones that abuse children when it is a well-known fact that women abuse children more than men?

Odd, that’s not a problem among the informed. I take you aren’t among. If single mothers have it so bad, why do women initiate about eighty percent of divorces and routinely commit perjury to win custody?

Probably in reaction to, "don’t worry, I’ll pull out in time" and other little lies men tell and forget they tell to get that one thing you think women shouldn’t complain about. Why do we have a Violence Against Women Act but nothing for men when women cause domestic violence just as often as men?

First, it’s not true that women do it just as often, and second I’d trade hits to the head with any women and give her first licks, and if we both hit as hard as we can, I’ll have a headache and she’ll be dead. All you have to do is check out the fatalities in the morbidity tables from the NIH or the FBI on homicides, and who the perps are in male female encounters that leave one of them dead. If you are going to be funny, at least don’t lie. Why is it funny when a woman kicks a man in the groin but terrible if a man did the same to a woman – won’t the man be in more pain?

Is that why men so often, when the hit a women, go for the stomach and head? Why is it terrible for a woman to be raped once but funny when male prisoners get raped over and over?

Yeah, why don’t those men just lay back and enjoy it? Why is a man a wimp if he lets his wife beat up on him but a criminal if he defends himself?

Who says he’s a wimp? Stupid maybe. Cops that are up to the current standards in training on domestic violence are quite aware men can be victimized. Why does women’s health get much more attention when men die about seven years younger than women?

Because men are stupid about their health? Women get more "health attention" because they pay more attention to their health. Next question? Why do we complain about legislators being mostly male when they always promote women’s rights and never promote men’s rights?

Gosh. Maybe the answer lies in the answer to your previous claim and question: http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/officeofmenshealth.html#resour… And possibly your perception of "men’s rights" is skewed by you excluding all the legislation that passes that benefits men to the exclusion of women. Most, for instance that impacts industry doesn’t benefit women because they don’t dominate those industries. Try the good ol’ boy’s club, oil. Why is it sexist to have clubs for only men but empowering to have them for only women?

Exclusive men’s clubs don’t empower men? Why do I think you are "whining like a woman?" If women only make 72 cents for the same work where a man earns a dollar, why don’t companies hire only women and put the competition out of business?

Because then men would make 0 cents for every dollar women make and you would drown out the whining that women do with your sobbing. How do police know who to arrest when there is a domestic disturbance involving lesbians?

Easy. In many states they will arrest both, and that goes for hetero DV too. Cops tend to arrest the least injured, but if both will make a complaint, both will be charged. Any more questions on domestic violence arrest rates should be routed to research on the matter. Or call your local police department for their policy. Arrests of females is on the rise, percentage wise, and there is that one little problem of size and strength and who hits who disparity? Women are lousy hitters usually. Lack of training. It’s getting better though. Women’s athletics programs will teach women better aim and controlling direction of force. Why do married women complain that their husbands don’t want to change a baby’s diaper but divorced women say their ex-husbands can’t take care of a child?

Because men don’t want to change a diaper? Why do men that don’t pay child support go to prison but nothing ever happens to women that don’t allow visitation?

Could be similar to those orders of protection women get against husbands that don’t get arrested for violations and so often kill the women that got one. as for visitation issues http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:5-qWk-jHhvgJ:www.tsc.state.tn.us/o… If women-in-the-military is such a good thing, why don’t they have to register for the draft?

Because you can kill all but one of the men and still recover the population over time. Kill all but one of the women and she will die trying to recover the population by her self. Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else?

Wherever did you get that idea? First, girls are not actually underperforming boys out of lack of skill…it’s a social issue…and we ARE concerned about the boys underperforming. Look it up: http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/UMD-Projects/MCTP/Essays/WomenAnd… http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:MqIgOtU_nP0J:www.decs.act.gov.au… Why do fathers have to pay the mother to take his children away from him in divorce?

Because he has more money than the mother? Why is it legal for women to lie to men about who the father of a baby is to get child support,

The lie isn’t legal, but you did, finally, <sigh get one right. Congrats. but a crime if she tells the same lie to the government to get Social Security or military benefits?

How come the legislators let this go by? Try answering a few questions instead of just asking them, rhetorically….you seem to be whining. Why do women have to prove they spent the money on the children when they collect welfare

They do? but don’t have to do the same when they collect child support?

They don’t? http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=child+support+squand… at this google result I see three cases on just such a question. In other words, it’s not being ignored. Why do we have to cut men’s sports that have fans to create women’s sports that don’t?

Where are you living, buddy, on Mars? Women sports are turning into the big time. These things take time. http://aahperd.confex.com/aahperd/2004/finalprogram/session_20435.htm http://aahperd.confex.com/aahperd/2004/finalprogram/NAGWS.htm http://www.leagueoffans.org/womenandsports.html Why do women tennis players win the same prize money as men when they only play three sets and men play five – isn’t that equal pay for less work?

Tennis is "work?" Coulda fooled me. Me I’m a racquet sports freak and so far I’ve never felt like I was working. Am I missing something? Why is it called sexual freedom when a married woman commits adultery

It is? but called cheating when a man does the same?

It is. But men call it "fooling around" when a man does it and women call it …what… oh, "foolin’ around" when a women does it. Or maybe I’m confused. We all seem to be self apologetic when it’s doin’ the foolin’ You not been gettin’ any lately? Why are female murderers presumed to be mentally ill but male murderers presumed to be killers?

There’s a great book out on this issue, that gets overlooked. It’s by a female author, who is an amateur boxer as well, and a regular in the Phil Inquirer. Rene Denfeld. The book is called, "Kill the Body … read more »

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Great post.. cuz it’s thought provoking. The answer to your question is…   white, or perhaps all men. are stupid. The had the power and  control, along with the ability and ambitiion to building a great nation from nothing.. and ended up giving away the store. It don’t end there.. they are now giving it away to other nations and keep nothing for themselves. bobb

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Why do women dress in makeup, short skirts, bare midriffs, and low-cut blouses but complain about men that stare at them?

this one’s easy. when they complain, they get even MORE attention. lookit the crossposting. my, my, my. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This newsgroup is a family unit, compromised by a single turd-laying female …The regulars cooperate in the info gathering, community building and rearing of high horses. Femme-trolls are rear-ended at all times of year when their comedy is required. (Secret Life of Morons)

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Double Standards: Ever Wonder Why? May 28, 2003 —- by Thomas Simon —- Why is it that women complain when men leave the toilet seat up, but men don ‘t complain when women leave it down? Why do women complain about men that only want one thing, but men don’t complain about women that want everything? Why do women have the choice between abortion, adoption, dropping an unwanted baby off at a hospital, raising the child with a father, or raising the child without a father, but the only choice men have is to agree? Why do women dress in makeup, short skirts, bare midriffs, and low-cut blouses but complain about men that stare at them? Why do we pretend that men are the ones that abuse children when it is a well-known fact that women abuse children more than men? If single mothers have it so bad, why do women initiate about eighty percent of divorces and routinely commit perjury to win custody? Why do we have a Violence Against Women Act but nothing for men when women cause domestic violence just as often as men? Why is it funny when a woman kicks a man in the groin but terrible if a man did the same to a woman – won’t the man be in more pain? Why is it terrible for a woman to be raped once but funny when male prisoners get raped over and over? Why is a man a wimp if he lets his wife beat up on him but a criminal if he defends himself? Why does women’s health get much more attention when men die about seven years younger than women? Why do we complain about legislators being mostly male when they always promote women’s rights and never promote men’s rights? Why is it sexist to have clubs for only men but empowering to have them for only women? If women only make 72 cents for the same work where a man earns a dollar, why don’t companies hire only women and put the competition out of business? How do police know who to arrest when there is a domestic disturbance involving lesbians? Why do married women complain that their husbands don’t want to change a baby’s diaper but divorced women say their ex-husbands can’t take care of a child? Why do men that don’t pay child support go to prison but nothing ever happens to women that don’t allow visitation? If women-in-the-military is such a good thing, why don’t they have to register for the draft? Why are we so concerned about girls under-performing boys in math and science but not concerned about boys under-performing girls in everything else? Why do fathers have to pay the mother to take his children away from him in divorce? Why is it legal for women to lie to men about who the father of a baby is to get child support, but a crime if she tells the same lie to the government to get Social Security or military benefits? Why do women have to prove they spent the money on the children when they collect welfare but don’t have to do the same when they collect child support? Why do we have to cut men’s sports that have fans to create women’s sports that don’t? Why do women tennis players win the same prize money as men when they only play three sets and men play five – isn’t that equal pay for less work? Why is it called sexual freedom when a married woman commits adultery but called cheating when a man does the same? Why are female murderers presumed to be mentally ill but male murderers presumed to be killers? Why are there thousands of "father’s rights" groups but no "mother’s rights" groups? Why do we have so many fathers groups fighting for more time with their children when there are so many social problems attributed to fatherlessness? Why do men have to support women at the same standard of living following divorce when women don’t even have to cook and clean his new apartment? If divorced women have it worse than divorced men, why do divorced men commit suicide eight or ten times as much as divorced women? Why do we pretend that men walk out on their wives and children when women initiate about eighty percent of divorces? Why is it considered sexist to have a couple of television shows geared towards men when there are several channels catering only to women? Why are television moms always portrayed as wonderful and loving and television dads always portrayed as inept buffoons? Why is it politically incorrect to say anything negative about women but funny to put men down? Why are women without a job considered to be exercising free choice but men without a job considered a bum? Why do feminists demand that women be equally represented in high paying and powerful jobs but don’t complain when low-paying, dirty, and dangerous jobs remain mostly done by men? Why do we have to say "Chairperson" and "Congressperson" but its ok to say "garbage man" and "bad guy"? Why do we always hear the phrase "innocent women and children" but never hear about "innocent men" or "men and children"? Why do news headlines use the terms "student", "spouse", or "parent" when a girl or woman, or mother does something wrong but use the terms "boy", "husband", or "father" when a boy, man, or father does something wrong? Why do feminists demand equal results for traditionally male roles but object to equal or shared parenting after divorce? Why does the term "angry mother" sound like someone that needs our help and support and the term "angry father" sound like someone that needs to be arrested and forced into anger management classes? Why is it that when men are more successful than women it’s because women are oppressed, but when women are more successful than men it’s because men are lazy? Why are only women free to criticize other women without being labeled anti-women, but both men and women are free to criticize men? Why are feminists pushing for laws that prevent new laws from being passed that protect men from women, such as with domestic violence against men, false allegations by women, or paternity fraud? Why is it that when a woman accuses a man of rape, the man’s name is made public and he is presumed guilty, but when he is proven innocent the woman remains anonymous and the man is still ruined? Why is it considered woman-hating or whining to point it out when women have something better than men, but we rush to pass new laws if men might have something better than women? Why is it that we’ve had forty years and billions of dollars going into women’s rights and men’s responsibilities, but it’s taboo in most circles to even suggest that maybe it’s time to consider men’s rights and women’s responsibilities a little bit for a change? If those who always side with women are feminists and those who always side with men are chauvinists, why don’t we have a wing of a political party and billions in funding going to chauvinists when we have that for feminists? For those who believe men had it better than women in the past and believe now it’s time for women to have it better than men for a while, why don’t they advocate whites being forced into slavery to blacks? Why are men considered more privileged than women with so many double standards against men? — Eliminate the impossible and whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.   —- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle —

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Leave a Comment

ASAP Question of the Day April 18/03: Reminiscing

Question:

I can’t even get to their group as of now

LOL!  <big wink

Response:

I can’t even get to their group as of now LOL!  <big wink

I’m Serious!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here. I’ve been here for years and I can guarantee that there will be a fall out and they’ll bring their war here. I give them a week and a half. Any takers on having a pool on how long it takes them to go at each others throats? I already answered that question a few days ago, and one person that replied to that post was proven wrong recently

I can’t even get to their group as of now verizon and aol doesn’t carry it yet. What I’ve read here no OT post are allowed so I guess it wouldn’t be much fun even reading their posts. I wish them luck on their group they got what they always wanted, "a censored ng" but I do hope the posters know just what kind of guy Daniel R. Rhodes is. What he thinks is okay for him or one of his friends to say may be against the FAQ for others. People are adult enough to know what’s right and wrong and I’m tired of fighting other people’s battles so let them figure it out for themselves.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here. I’ve been here for years and I can guarantee that there will be a fall out and they’ll bring their war here. I give them a week and a half. Any takers on having a pool on how long it takes them to go at each others throats? I already answered that question a few days ago, and one person that replied to that post was proven wrong recently I hope you aren’t wishing them misfortune Kevin. No I wasn’t. It was a very vage joke. I wish them well in the new group. So do I and even posted about it twice I believe. Like me and several others YOU made your own bed here. I sure did. If you really want to prove them wrong about you I wasn’t talking about myself, you or anyone else that posts here now. and forget about ASAPM. I’ve unsubscribed from ASAPM this morning as I have no need to read it anymore.

I slavishly read every post looking for mentions of boB.;-)

Response:

: Hehe. Stinky feet milk! Okay…  now what is this deal about you accusing me about stinky feet??  I told you yesterday… in fact I put an "I swear" in my post…  I do not have stinky feet!!!!!!  :-P

hehe I guess until we have scratch and sniff computer screens we will just have to take your word for it.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -X-no-archive: yes : : : Hehe. Stinky feet milk! : : Okay…  now what is this deal about you accusing me about stinky feet?? I : told you yesterday… in fact I put an "I swear" in my post…  I do not : have stinky feet!!!!!!  :-P : : hehe : I guess until we have scratch and sniff computer screens we will just have to : take your word for it. : I would settle for a paintball game with you.  And I would only use hot pink on you!!!

I have to warn you, I’m an ass shooter.;-) My daughter was so mad last time she was spitting paintballs.

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Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it?

The noise the bottles would make clinging together and not even thinking anyone would steal the milk in the hallway. And it tasted better in the glass bottle.     Where’s Jackie?

Response:

Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it? The noise the bottles would make clinging together and not even thinking anyone would steal the milk in the hallway. And it tasted better in the glass bottle.     Where’s Jackie?

Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!asapm.stump.al gebra.com!robomod!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated Organization: Altopia Corp. – Usenet Access – http://www.altopia.com Lines: 20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ASAPM-Policy: http://stump.algebra.com/~asapm X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Orig-NNTP-Posting-Host: aca149c9.ipt.aol.com (172.161.73.201) X-Orig-X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050756582 4036465 172.161.73.201 (16 [82037]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) X-No-Archive: yes Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated:242 *Speak of the devil and up she pops!* ;o) JH Dear People, I just wanted to say hi to everybody It`s good to see so many familiar faces here! Life is not treating me good lately, my husband was laid off from his job last week, the company he is working for is struggling, so they had to let some people go. I`m trying to hang in there and take things one day at a time, but it is hard sometimes. Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here. I’ve been here for years and I can guarantee that there will be a fall out and they’ll bring their war here. I give them a week and a half. Any takers on having a pool on how long it takes them to go at each others throats? I already answered that question a few days ago, and one person that replied to that post was proven wrong recently I hope you aren’t wishing them misfortune Kevin.

No I wasn’t. It was a very vage joke. I wish them well in the new group.

So do I and even posted about it twice I believe. Like me and several others YOU made your own bed here.

I sure did. If you really want to prove them wrong about you

I wasn’t talking about myself, you or anyone else that posts here now. and forget about ASAPM.

I’ve unsubscribed from ASAPM this morning as I have no need to read it anymore.

Response:

Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here.

I’ve been here for years and I can guarantee that there will be a fall out and they’ll bring their war here. I give them a week and a half. Any takers on having a pool on how long it takes them to go at each others throats?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here. I’ve been here for years and I can guarantee that there will be a fall out and they’ll bring their war here. I give them a week and a half. Any takers on having a pool on how long it takes them to go at each others throats?

I already answered that question a few days ago, and one person that replied to that post was proven wrong recently

Response:

Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here. I’ve been here for years and I can guarantee that there will be a fall out and they’ll bring their war here. I give them a week and a half. Any takers on having a pool on how long it takes them to go at each others throats?

Actually I think a lot of them have been weeded out already via email wars. As much as I disliked Chip, I hope he finds his way to ASAPM as well. If Julima can set aside her differences with Elliott I suspect Chip can do the same.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here. I’ve been here for years and I can guarantee that there will be a fall out and they’ll bring their war here. I give them a week and a half. Any takers on having a pool on how long it takes them to go at each others throats? I already answered that question a few days ago, and one person that replied to that post was proven wrong recently

I hope you aren’t wishing them misfortune Kevin. I wish them well in the new group. Like me and several others YOU made your own bed here. If you really want to prove them wrong about you then put all your efforts into making ASAP the group YOU want it to be and forget about ASAPM. I would like some peace. I’ve never seen it in the 14 months I’ve been here. But if they want to continue the war, I will be glad to oblige, but it won’t be HERE in ASAP.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it? The noise the bottles would make clinging together and not even thinking anyone would steal the milk in the hallway. And it tasted better in the glass bottle. I’ll bet it did taste better in glass. Everything does. I don’t like drinking anything out of cans either. If given a choice I’ll take the bottle everytime. Ooh, that’s ripe for a comeback isn’t it?  ;-) Where’s Jackie? Now *that’s* the Question of the Day! I hounded Jackie day after day so making this post will make me look like an even bigger jackass but I sincerely hope she is OK. This group meant the world to her. I was not expecting her to just leave. I had thought she would have a greater roll in ASAPM. I Googled the birthdays from last year and I think the next one on the list is close to the end of the month. I had nothing personal against Jackie and I wish her well. You’ve probably seen by now that she’s been posting there this morning.

Teri I hope she find the happiness there, that she lost here. Ultimately Dan Rhodes will be responsible if she doesn’t. Just as he was here.

Response:

hehe BTW it’s nice to see you participating in ASAPM so quickly. I think you will enjoy the group my friend.

Response:

Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it? No need to remember it. It’s still happening on my street to this day.

You are lucky. I would love to have delivery although as a single person it would undoubtedly be pricy. We don’t do it but the neighbor across from me does. They receive a wide variety of products. I think it’s funny that the delivery truck is painted like a cow.

It should have a horn that goes Moo! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – White with black spots and no obvious company logo. I once overheard a comment from a teen in the neighborhood saying "I didn’t know Gateway made home deliveries" ; )

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it? The noise the bottles would make clinging together and not even thinking anyone would steal the milk in the hallway. And it tasted better in the glass bottle.     Where’s Jackie? Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!asapm.stump.al gebra.com!robomod!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated Organization: Altopia Corp. – Usenet Access – http://www.altopia.com Lines: 20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ASAPM-Policy: http://stump.algebra.com/~asapm X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Orig-NNTP-Posting-Host: aca149c9.ipt.aol.com (172.161.73.201) X-Orig-X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050756582 4036465 172.161.73.201 (16 [82037]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) X-No-Archive: yes Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated:242 *Speak of the devil and up she pops!* ;o) JH

I’ll bet they come back to use this place as alt.support.anxiety-panic.flame

Response:

I’ll bet they come back to use this place as alt.support.anxiety-panic.flame

From control.newgroup  read the last paragraph on justification if you want a good laugh. At least they never stop lying.;-) For your newsgroups file: alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated     Mutual assistance and help.. (Moderated) Newsgroup alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated has been successfully discussed in alt.config. We expect it to have large amount of traffic soon. Please create this moderated newsgroup. CHARTER: alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated (ASAPM) is a moderated newsgroup for the discussion of all subjects concerning anxiety and panic disorders, including related disorders such as depression and self-injury.  It is intended for the support of sufferers of these disorders and their families and friends. Almost anything is on topic if it pertains to dealing with anxiety and related disorders, medication, therapy, coping techniques, etc., including proven alternative approaches and leading edge research. Off topic posts are a valuable contributor to community building and posts of this type are welcome. Humorous posts are doubly welcome. To assist those who may not wish to read them, such posts should be clearly marked with "OT" at the beginning of the Subject line. The following types of posts are not allowed. a.  All attacks, abuse, flames and provocation against any person or     group.  This would include posts severely critical of mainstream     treatments such as medication and therapy. Flaming is defined as     abuse, insults, harassment, suggestive slurs, and ad hominem     attacks. Provocation is defined as content primarily intended to     incite aggravation, indignation, or outrage. Comments pertaining     to discussions in other newsgroups, web groups or email lists, or     of members of these groups may also be seen as provocation. b.  Posts skeptical of the general validity of anxiety disorders and     proven treatments. Posts whose purpose or desired effect is to     frighten people from continuing their prescribed treatment.     Common sense advice based on proven or substantial anecdotal     evidence as provided on general anxiety forums that is given with     the purpose of supporting posters is permissible. c.  Excessive discussion of moderation policy or performance.     Reasonable discussion of moderation policy and performance will     be allowed, so long as the discussion does not disrupt the normal     operation of the group and all messages comply with the other     posting rules. Any decision regarding changes to the charter or     moderation guidelines will always be subject to a vote of the     moderators. It is preferred that questions, comments or complaints     regarding moderation policies or performance be mailed directly to     will be dealt with as promptly as schedules permit, usually within     a few days. d.  Abuse of moderators, either in posts submitted to this newsgroup,     or in email, is strictly prohibited. See above for the current     overview of what is considered abuse. Since it is not possible for the moderators to assess compliance with copyright law of every post, liability for posting of copyrighted material lies with the poster. The moderators reserve the right to cancel posts that are auto-approved if at least two moderators agree that the post violated the posting criteria. Posts which appear on the newsgroup that have not been approved by the moderators will also be cancelled. Other posting rules and criteria, as set out in the document entitled "Moderators Guidelines for ASAPM" also apply. Interpretation of the posting rules, criteria and Moderator Guidelines are subject to the judgment of the moderators. The moderators have the right to modify rules stated in the "Moderators Guidelines for ASAPM", by a vote of the moderators where two thirds of the moderators vote yes. The current moderation guidelines and posting rules will always be available in this document. This charter, and the "Moderators Guidelines for ASAPM" will be posted to ASAPM every two weeks.  They can also be requested from All new moderators will be subject to a period of probation of at least four weeks, but not more than eight weeks. A probationary moderator will be allowed to manually approve or reject a post and vote on auto-approve and auto-reject status, but may not participate in any other vote. If a probationary moderator is uncertain as to the application of any posting rule, they are expected to consult with a non-probationary moderator. A new probationary moderator will be elected by a majority vote of the existing non-probationary moderators. A probationary moderator can be removed by a majority vote of the non-probationary moderators at any time. A probationary moderator will no longer be probationary, and will become a moderator with full rights, by a unanimous vote of non-probationary moderators. If unanimous consent of the non-probationary moderators cannot be obtained within a period of eight weeks, then the probationary moderator will be removed. An existing moderator may be removed by a unanimous vote of the other moderators. For the purposes of a vote, the words "majority", "unanimous", and "two thirds" are defined in relation to the number of moderators who are present.  All votes must be taken via email.  A moderator is "present" if they are available to respond via email.  If a moderator will not be available via email for a period of time they should notify the remaining moderators when they leave and when they return. A moderator will be considered not present from the time they leave to the time they return.  If a vote is called, and a moderator does not respond for a period of 72 hours, they will be considered not present for the vote. Comments: Justification: A search of Google Groups (<http://groups.google.com) over a ninety day period from 01/01/2003 to 03/31/2003 for posts from posters who have publicly indicated they will post at ASAPM produced 2,420 results for an average of approximatly 27 posts per day. Proponents/Moderators:

Response:

Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it? The noise the bottles would make clinging together and not even thinking anyone would steal the milk in the hallway. And it tasted better in the glass bottle.  

I love the glass bottle, especially the drink straight from it part. I can’t do that with the cartons, I hate the feel of that spout in my mouth. We could still buy milk that way from our local store until about 2 years ago.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it? The noise the bottles would make clinging together and not even thinking anyone would steal the milk in the hallway. And it tasted better in the glass bottle. I’ll bet it did taste better in glass. Everything does. I don’t like drinking anything out of cans either. If given a choice I’ll take the bottle everytime. Ooh, that’s ripe for a comeback isn’t it?  ;-) Where’s Jackie? Now *that’s* the Question of the Day!

I hounded Jackie day after day so making this post will make me look like an even bigger jackass but I sincerely hope she is OK. This group meant the world to her. I was not expecting her to just leave. I had thought she would have a greater roll in ASAPM. I Googled the birthdays from last year and I think the next one on the list is close to the end of the month. I had nothing personal against Jackie and I wish her well.

Response:

Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it?

No need to remember it. It’s still happening on my street to this day. We don’t do it but the neighbor across from me does. They receive a wide variety of products. I think it’s funny that the delivery truck is painted like a cow. White with black spots and no obvious company logo. I once overheard a comment from a teen in the neighborhood saying "I didn’t know Gateway made home deliveries" ; )

Response:

Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it?

I can still remember with enormous nostalgia, dairy deliveries by horse-drawn milk-float. That was still being carried out in my village right through the fifties and well into the sixties! I was of course a very young boy! ;o) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have very fond memories. For about 4 years we had dairy delivery. They gave us a pad of order forms to fill out and put with the money and the empty bottles. Once a week I was allowed to order 2 pints of ice cream. I was so excited! I used to go out early in the morning and wait for the truck to arrive on ice cream day. Even though all I could do was put it in the freezer. Ice cream was only allowed to be eaten after dinner.:-( I would wait until the very last moment before going to school. If the truck didn’t arrive before I had to leave for school I would often pretend I was sick so I could stay home and wait for that truck. My grandmother must have known what I was up to because she would always come to my room about 15 minutes before the morning recess started at school and feel my forehead (which creeped me out). Then she would say "You’re fine, get your school clothes on and go to school. I would arrive during recess secure in the knowledge that my two pints of ice cream were safely in the freezer at home.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -X-no-archive: yes : : Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? : What do you remember about it? : : I have very fond memories. : : For about 4 years we had dairy delivery. They gave us a pad of order forms to : fill out and put with the money and the empty bottles. Once a week I was allowed : to order 2 pints of ice cream. I was so excited! I used to go out early in the : morning and wait for the truck to arrive on ice cream day. Even though all I : could do was put it in the freezer. Ice cream was only allowed to be eaten after : dinner.:-( : : I would wait until the very last moment before going to school. If the truck : didn’t arrive before I had to leave for school I would often pretend I was sick : so I could stay home and wait for that truck. My grandmother must have known : what I was up to because she would always come to my room about 15 minutes : before the morning recess started at school and feel my forehead (which creeped : me out). : Then she would say "You’re fine, get your school clothes on and go to school. : I would arrive during recess secure in the knowledge that my two pints of ice : cream were safely in the freezer at home. Great question boB!!  Talk about bringing back memories!  I recall the silver box that sat by our front door in Las Vegas!  Next to it, Mom put a fresh little bucket of soapy water and wash clothes every day during the summer.  Since we all ran around barefoot, we had to sit down on the milk box, one by one, and wash our feet before going inside.

Hehe. Stinky feet milk! Several communities here in BC still had home delivery 3 years ago and they still might. I had friends who were getting the most delicious chocolate ice cream I have tasted delivered not that long ago. As well as yogurt, hard and soft cheeses, and even juices.

Response:

Who remembers milk and dairy home delivery? What do you remember about it? I have very fond memories. For about 4 years we had dairy delivery. They gave us a pad of order forms to fill out and put with the money and the empty bottles. Once a week I was allowed to order 2 pints of ice cream. I was so excited! I used to go out early in the morning and wait for the truck to arrive on ice cream day. Even though all I could do was put it in the freezer. Ice cream was only allowed to be eaten after dinner.:-( I would wait until the very last moment before going to school. If the truck didn’t arrive before I had to leave for school I would often pretend I was sick so I could stay home and wait for that truck. My grandmother must have known what I was up to because she would always come to my room about 15 minutes before the morning recess started at school and feel my forehead (which creeped me out). Then she would say "You’re fine, get your school clothes on and go to school. I would arrive during recess secure in the knowledge that my two pints of ice cream were safely in the freezer at home.

Response:

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In Sacramento, the propagandizing Bee is almost as good as Tass used to be. ‘Course, liberals support and run it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WSJ?  What a bunch of liberals. Three words: Wall Street Journal.  Accept nothing less (and it WILL be FAR less). — awaddell at codestrike dot com Jim, Where are you at?  I know Gannett took over Oshkosh and Appleton — both formerly grand, locally-owned newspapers. It’s sad what they (and all "chain" paper companies) do to a local paper. For 22 years I watched as Gannett (known as the "DeathStar" in the newspaper world, since they come into your orbit, and destroy you) raped and pillaged city after city, all across the nation. You should see what they’ve done to the Des Moines Register!  It was once a world-class, Pulitzer prize-winning newspaper.  It is now a mere shell, exactly as you described. And they pay their carriers and district managers so little, that delivery is a day-to-day gamble, like rolling the dice.  Like we always said to our newspaper clients, "You pay peanuts – you get monkeys" — and that’s what Gannett gets… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Jay, Our local paper is also owned by Gannett.  Most of the time they can’t manage to even get the paper delivered and when it does come it’s a joke. About 2 pages of Central Wisconsin articles and the rest of it is national AP articles take right off the news line.  Any article that the local reporters write is normally filled with mis-information and errors. The paper used to be locally owned and ever since Gannett bought it several years ago it has been terrible.  I wonder if they think that the fire departments and the police departments should also turn a profit?  And I imagine that they must be just rolling in the dough from the local bus service huh? JimB This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"!

What’s surprising (or unreasonable) about that? It’s the natural, inevitable result of demands that government be "run like a business", just as underfunding is the natural result of demands for tax cuts. — Paul Baechler

Response:

What’s surprising (or unreasonable) about that? It’s the natural, inevitable result of demands that government be "run like a business", just as underfunding is the natural result of demands for tax cuts.

Right.  And when I start seeing ANYTHING resembling business efficiency, and profit-making (or motive) in gubmint, I will (a) stop bitching about them expecting our airport to make a yearly profit, and (b) fall over dead. Until that time, expecting the airport to make a profit — one that is measured using regular business parameters — is no different than expecting the library, park system, or bus system to make a "profit".  Ain’t gonna happen. But does paving the streets make a profit?  Of course it does — but it’s hard to quantify.  Paved roads bring commerce to the area, which makes them "profitable" — as do the paved runways and taxiways of our airport. Our airport brings $11,000,000.00+ annually to our local economy, according to an Iowa State University study.  The city’s annual subsidy (that the newspaper is bitching about) amounts to around $200K. Not a bad investment, by any measure. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Newspapers are dead, they just don’t know it yet.  When I worked for the St. Paul Pioneer Press/Dispatch in the late 80’s I couldn’t believe how poorly run it was.  Still is and hemorrhaging money.

The conglomerate I used to work for responded to the Internet and declining circulations by hunkering down and spending next to no money at all on responding to the Internet and declining circulations. They also traded for some more newspapers. I actually had a kid come by to tell me that only 10% of the news I was interested in could be found on the Internet. Pushy little salesguy, too. Newspapers: a 19-th century waste of good trees. Rob

Response:

Newspapers: a 19-th century waste of good trees.

Say what you will about them, newspapers remain profitable, are even expanding (at least around here), and — my truest measure — the daily newspaper is one of the most popular items we include in our delivered-to-the-suite continental breakfast basket at our hotel. And our high-speed internet connections — which we thought would be so popular — remain largely unmentioned and unused. Go figure! — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

And our high-speed internet connections — which we thought would be so popular — remain largely unmentioned and unused.

Only about half of all US households own a PC. Of those, many are simply unused, and most of the rest are used only for email.  Most of the people using their PC just for email don’t mind being without email when they are traveling. I never would have expected an Internet connection to be a widely popular feature.  For those who DO want it, it’s very important and a great selling point.  But only a small fraction of your customers are even in a position to use one.  Even for the people who do just email, chances are that they don’t know how to access their email from an Internet connection other than the one at their house. Maybe you got a skewed view of how popular it would be by depending too much on your survey of us here?  Talk about an unscientific survey!  :) Anyway, I’m not suggesting that you should get rid of the Internet connection.  It’s a great feature, IMHO.  I’m just not surprised that more people like their morning paper than like the Internet connection. Pete

Response:

Maybe you got a skewed view of how popular it would be by depending too much on your survey of us here?  Talk about an unscientific survey!  :)

True.  However, you guys (pilots) ARE our targeted growth market — so what you think and want is important. I think the unpopularity of the high-speed internet connection is really more a commentary on how few pilots (and tech heads) have actually stayed with us in the first 6 weeks.  Which isn’t a surprise, either — our marketing efforts have only just begun!  :) Luckily, we’ve been so full of Hawkeye football fans, we’re too busy to worry about it! — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

True.  However, you guys (pilots) ARE our targeted growth market — so what you think and want is important.

What I think IS important!  I never meant to imply otherwise.  :) I think the unpopularity of the high-speed internet connection is really more a commentary on how few pilots (and tech heads) have actually stayed with us in the first 6 weeks.

Probably…though I’m guessing it’s more the lack of "tech heads" than the lack of pilots (I know lots of pilots who are baffled by computers ). In any case, if I recall, you knew up front that your major clientele would not be pilots, so I’m guessing that all of this isn’t *that* much of a surprise to you, even ignoring the relative newness of your marketing efforts.  :) Pete

Response:

Great response, Jay.  Articulate, concise, and fact based.  The editors won’t know what hit them!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Hi Jay!  Great editorial! I’m glad it got published. I hope it actually makes a difference…  Newspapers are not only profitable, they are run completely and totally like a business – profitability is key, circulation drives advertising $$$, and ratings drive circulation.  It will be a long time until newspapers really die – I predict it won’t happen until someone comes up with a way for everyone to surf local, well organized web news sites on the train, the kitchen table, and in the toilet for 50 cents a day… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newspapers are dead, they just don’t know it yet.  When I worked for the St. Paul Pioneer Press/Dispatch in the late 80’s I couldn’t believe how poorly run it was.  Still is and hemorrhaging money. Totally untrue.  Newspapers are INCREDIBLY profitable.   I worked at a newspaper in Wisconsin (until ‘97) with a 37% profit margin!  And when it dropped below 33%, we were instructed to tell our employees that we were having a "terrible" year.  (If it dropped to 30%, we laid people off!) And *all* of that profit goes back to the home office.  Not one nickel of it stayed in the community. THAT’S what chains do to hometown newspapers. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Jim, Where are you at?  I know Gannett took over Oshkosh and Appleton — both formerly grand, locally-owned newspapers. It’s sad what they (and all "chain" paper companies) do to a local paper. For 22 years I watched as Gannett (known as the "DeathStar" in the newspaper world, since they come into your orbit, and destroy you) raped and pillaged city after city, all across the nation. You should see what they’ve done to the Des Moines Register!  It was once a world-class, Pulitzer prize-winning newspaper.  It is now a mere shell, exactly as you described. And they pay their carriers and district managers so little, that delivery is a day-to-day gamble, like rolling the dice.  Like we always said to our newspaper clients, "You pay peanuts – you get monkeys" — and that’s what Gannett gets… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"   Jay, Our local paper is also owned by Gannett.  Most of the time they can’t manage to even get the paper delivered and when it does come it’s a joke. About 2 pages of Central Wisconsin articles and the rest of it is national AP articles take right off the news line.  Any article that the local reporters write is normally filled with mis-information and errors.  The paper used to be locally owned and ever since Gannett bought it several years ago it has been terrible.  I wonder if they think that the fire departments and the police departments should also turn a profit?  And I imagine that they must be just rolling in the dough from the local bus service huh? JimB     This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" <HTML<HEAD<TITLE</TITLE <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR <STYLE</STYLE </HEAD <BODY bgColor=#ffffff <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3&gt; Newspapers are dead, they just don’t know it yet. &nbsp;When I worked for the St. Paul Pioneer Press/Dispatch in the late 80’s I &gt; couldn’t believe how poorly run it was. &nbsp;Still is and hemorrhaging money.</FONT<BR</FONT</DIV <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2Totally untrue.&nbsp; Newspapers are INCREDIBLY profitable.&nbsp; </FONT</DIV <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2</FONT&nbsp;</DIV <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2I worked at a newspaper in Wisconsin (until ‘97)&nbsp;with a 37% profit margin!&nbsp; And when it dropped below 33%, we were instructed to tell our employees that we were having a "terrible" year.&nbsp; (If it dropped to 30%, we laid people off!)</FONT</DIV <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2</FONT&nbsp;</DIV <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2And *all* of that profit goes back to the home office.&nbsp; Not one nickel of it stayed in the community. </FONT</DIV <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2</FONT&nbsp;</DIV <DIV<FONT face=Arial size=2THAT’S what chains do to hometown newspapers. </FONT</DIV <DIV–<BRJay Honeck<BRIowa City, IA<BRPathfinder N56993<BR<A href="http://www.AlexisParkInn.com"www.AlexisParkInn.com</A<BR"Your Aviation Destination"</DIV <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"   <DIV"Newps" &lt;<A   in message <A     re.com</A…</DIV<BRJay   wrap=""Jim, Where are you at?  I know Gannett took over Oshkosh and Appleton — both formerly grand, locally-owned newspapers. It’s sad what they (and all "chain" paper companies) do to a local paper. For 22 years I watched as Gannett (known as the "DeathStar" in the newspaper world, since they come into your orbit, and destroy you) raped and pillaged city after city, all across the nation. You should see what they’ve done to the Des Moines Register!  It was once a world-class, Pulitzer prize-winning newspaper.  It is now a mere shell, exactly as you described. And they pay their carriers and district managers so little, that delivery is a day-to-day gamble, like rolling the dice.  Like we always said to our newspaper clients, "You pay peanuts – you get monkeys" — and that’s what Gannett gets… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.AlexisParkInn.com"www.AlexisParkInn.com</A "Your Aviation Destination" "Jim" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E   </PRE     <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"<PRE wrap=""Jay, Our local paper is also owned by Gannett.  Most of the time they can’t manage to even get the paper delivered and when it does come it’s a joke. About 2 pages of Central Wisconsin articles and the rest of it is national AP articles take right off the news line.  Any article that the local reporters write is normally filled with mis-information and errors.  The paper used to be locally owned and ever since Gannett bought it several years ago it has been terrible.  I wonder if they think that the fire departments and the police departments should also turn a profit?  And I imagine that they must be just rolling in the dough from the local bus service huh? JimB "Jay Honeck" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E 03</A…     </PRE       <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"<PRE wrap=""This is what I sent the       local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm"http://w ww.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm</A — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.AlexisParkInn.com"www.AlexisParkInn.com</A "Your Aviation Destination"       </PRE</BLOCKQUOTE<PRE wrap=""    </PRE</BLOCKQUOTE<PRE       wrap=""<!—-   </PRE</BLOCKQUOTE<BR</BLOCKQUOTE</BODY</HTML Attachment decoded: untitled-3.htm

Response:

Shucks, Jay, The US Army, the USAF, The Navy and the Coast Guard have never operated at a "profit" (at least for them).  Let’s get rid of those. (Now that would slow down Dubya.  He’d have to stop one of his vacations and invade Iraq.  "Here Cheney, take this M16 and cover me…")

There was the news story recently that the Iraqi vice-president said Hussein should fight a duel with Dubya, with Kofi Annan as the referee. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2297371.stm Hey, they could put it on pay-per-view, I mean, I’d pay to see that! Someone could make a lot of money. Back on topic for a moment, you get people trying to shut down small airfields over here in the UK, too. Usually the local council, who see airfields as not a valuable resource to the area, but a lot of land they can sell off to property developers so the property developers can build warehouses or office blocks… Then you get the NIMBYs* who buy a house next to the airfield then call for it to be closed down as it’s too noisy… They’re all bastards, all of them… — — Stranger: I wear no mask. Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask! *NIMBY – Not In My Back Yard – NIMBYs refers to people who complain bitterly about things going on in their area.

Response:

near Stevens Point, WI JimB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, Where are you at?  I know Gannett took over Oshkosh and Appleton — both formerly grand, locally-owned newspapers. It’s sad what they (and all "chain" paper companies) do to a local paper. For 22 years I watched as Gannett (known as the "DeathStar" in the newspaper world, since they come into your orbit, and destroy you) raped and pillaged city after city, all across the nation. You should see what they’ve done to the Des Moines Register!  It was once a world-class, Pulitzer prize-winning newspaper.  It is now a mere shell, exactly as you described. And they pay their carriers and district managers so little, that delivery is a day-to-day gamble, like rolling the dice.  Like we always said to our newspaper clients, "You pay peanuts – you get monkeys" — and that’s what Gannett gets… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Jay, Our local paper is also owned by Gannett.  Most of the time they can’t manage to even get the paper delivered and when it does come it’s a joke. About 2 pages of Central Wisconsin articles and the rest of it is national AP articles take right off the news line.  Any article that the local reporters write is normally filled with mis-information and errors.  The paper used to be locally owned and ever since Gannett bought it several years ago it has been terrible.  I wonder if they think that the fire departments and the police departments should also turn a profit?  And I imagine that they must be just rolling in the dough from the local bus service huh? JimB This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Newspapers: a 19-th century waste of good trees. Say what you will about them, newspapers remain profitable, are even expanding (at least around here)

Perhaps Dean Singleton owns your paper, or it’s still owned locally. I’ve met and worked for some of the other guys who run newspapers (the owners, not the publishers or editors), and I say without shame that these guys are about as interested in local issues and community building as you might be about seeing your local airfield turned into a stripmall and some apartment buildings. And our high-speed internet connections — which we thought would be so popular — remain largely unmentioned and unused.

Well, in your case, I’d propose that since you cater to pilots, perhaps the fact of air turbulence prevents folks from taking their laptops with them. And, it’s dang hard to eat and compute at the same time. Speaking as a pilot-wannabe (7.2 hours instruction so far) I’d ask you to keep your Internet connection available for my visit. Rob

Response:

Newspapers are dead, they just don’t know it yet.  When I worked for the St. Paul Pioneer Press/Dispatch in the late 80’s I couldn’t believe how poorly run it was.  Still is and hemorrhaging money.

Totally untrue.  Newspapers are INCREDIBLY profitable.   I worked at a newspaper in Wisconsin (until ‘97) with a 37% profit margin!  And when it dropped below 33%, we were instructed to tell our employees that we were having a "terrible" year.  (If it dropped to 30%, we laid people off!) And *all* of that profit goes back to the home office.  Not one nickel of it stayed in the community. THAT’S what chains do to hometown newspapers. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Jim, Where are you at?  I know Gannett took over Oshkosh and Appleton — both formerly grand, locally-owned newspapers. It’s sad what they (and all "chain" paper companies) do to a local paper. For 22 years I watched as Gannett (known as the "DeathStar" in the newspaper world, since they come into your orbit, and destroy you) raped and pillaged city after city, all across the nation. You should see what they’ve done to the Des Moines Register!  It was once a world-class, Pulitzer prize-winning newspaper.  It is now a mere shell, exactly as you described. And they pay their carriers and district managers so little, that delivery is a day-to-day gamble, like rolling the dice.  Like we always said to our newspaper clients, "You pay peanuts – you get monkeys" — and that’s what Gannett gets… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

  Jay, Our local paper is also owned by Gannett.  Most of the time they can’t manage to even get the paper delivered and when it does come it’s a joke. About 2 pages of Central Wisconsin articles and the rest of it is national AP articles take right off the news line.  Any article that the local reporters write is normally filled with mis-information and errors.  The paper used to be locally owned and ever since Gannett bought it several years ago it has been terrible.  I wonder if they think that the fire departments and the police departments should also turn a profit?  And I imagine that they must be just rolling in the dough from the local bus service huh? JimB

    This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

WSJ?  What a bunch of liberals.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Three words: Wall Street Journal.  Accept nothing less (and it WILL be FAR less). — awaddell at codestrike dot com Jim, Where are you at?  I know Gannett took over Oshkosh and Appleton — both formerly grand, locally-owned newspapers. It’s sad what they (and all "chain" paper companies) do to a local paper. For 22 years I watched as Gannett (known as the "DeathStar" in the newspaper world, since they come into your orbit, and destroy you) raped and pillaged city after city, all across the nation. You should see what they’ve done to the Des Moines Register!  It was once a world-class, Pulitzer prize-winning newspaper.  It is now a mere shell, exactly as you described. And they pay their carriers and district managers so little, that delivery is a day-to-day gamble, like rolling the dice.  Like we always said to our newspaper clients, "You pay peanuts – you get monkeys" — and that’s what Gannett gets… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Jay, Our local paper is also owned by Gannett.  Most of the time they can’t manage to even get the paper delivered and when it does come it’s a joke. About 2 pages of Central Wisconsin articles and the rest of it is national AP articles take right off the news line.  Any article that the local reporters write is normally filled with mis-information and errors. The paper used to be locally owned and ever since Gannett bought it several years ago it has been terrible.  I wonder if they think that the fire departments and the police departments should also turn a profit?  And I imagine that they must be just rolling in the dough from the local bus service huh? JimB This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Three words: Wall Street Journal.  Accept nothing less (and it WILL be FAR less). — awaddell at codestrike dot com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, Where are you at?  I know Gannett took over Oshkosh and Appleton — both formerly grand, locally-owned newspapers. It’s sad what they (and all "chain" paper companies) do to a local paper. For 22 years I watched as Gannett (known as the "DeathStar" in the newspaper world, since they come into your orbit, and destroy you) raped and pillaged city after city, all across the nation. You should see what they’ve done to the Des Moines Register!  It was once a world-class, Pulitzer prize-winning newspaper.  It is now a mere shell, exactly as you described. And they pay their carriers and district managers so little, that delivery is a day-to-day gamble, like rolling the dice.  Like we always said to our newspaper clients, "You pay peanuts – you get monkeys" — and that’s what Gannett gets… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Jay, Our local paper is also owned by Gannett.  Most of the time they can’t manage to even get the paper delivered and when it does come it’s a joke. About 2 pages of Central Wisconsin articles and the rest of it is national AP articles take right off the news line.  Any article that the local reporters write is normally filled with mis-information and errors.  The paper used to be locally owned and ever since Gannett bought it several years ago it has been terrible.  I wonder if they think that the fire departments and the police departments should also turn a profit?  And I imagine that they must be just rolling in the dough from the local bus service huh? JimB This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

I seriously wonder why anyone even reads the "news" paper any more. This is what I sent the local rag, after they published yet another broad-side attack against our local airport — they were/are actually calling for the closing of the airport if it doesn’t turn a "profit"! http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/guestedit101002.htm — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

– Chris N35

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Flaps off the Side of the Moon Festival

Question:

Trying to get to the Flaps Festival, but don’t quite have the cash? Did you know that you could get a break on your ticket price if you volunteer? The Flaps Festival is looking for some reliable people to help out both before and/or at the event. Think you might be interested? For more information about the Flaps of the Side of the Moon Festival, go to: www.fulltiltboogie.ca We are proud to present the culmination of an organic community building effort that is the Flaps off the Side of the Moon Festival. A 3 day gathering bringing together everyone and their Mother in celebration of Earth, culture, creative expression, fellowship, & respect. Experience a mixture of musical soundscapes from mind blowing local and international talent featured on three main stages that include goa / psy trance, jam bands and breakbeats / hip-hop and reggae. We also invite you to enjoy a variety of captivating workshops and theatrical presentations. The festival is a non-profit initiative, with your contribution returning to the community organizations involved and benefiting a number of charities. Journey with us to the fairgrounds of Killaloe and flap your moon under the full groove. Community Kitchen by Garden Spot and You Festival Radio by Indymedia Ottawa & CHCR Chill Out Space /w video tent Fair Trade Coffee House /w Open-mic Artistic Environment, Mythological themes & audio/visual sync Onsite Camping & Parking Ethical Market Place Children’s Area (crafts, theatre & a bouncy tent) Watering Hole Our Mission: To promote jam, psychedelia, community, and respect by combining learning with celebration and organic with electronic. All in an environment that mixes jam band festival, rave, political demonstration, and rainbow gathering. All this while raising money for local charities and community based organizations.

Response:

Do you really want to go? I read to the end of your post and it freaked me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Trying to get to the Flaps Festival, but don’t quite have the cash? Did you know that you could get a break on your ticket price if you volunteer? The Flaps Festival is looking for some reliable people to help out both before and/or at the event. Think you might be interested? For more information about the Flaps of the Side of the Moon Festival, go to: www.fulltiltboogie.ca We are proud to present the culmination of an organic community building effort that is the Flaps off the Side of the Moon Festival. A 3 day gathering bringing together everyone and their Mother in celebration of Earth, culture, creative expression, fellowship, & respect. Experience a mixture of musical soundscapes from mind blowing local and international talent featured on three main stages that include goa / psy trance, jam bands and breakbeats / hip-hop and reggae. We also invite you to enjoy a variety of captivating workshops and theatrical presentations. The festival is a non-profit initiative, with your contribution returning to the community organizations involved and benefiting a number of charities. Journey with us to the fairgrounds of Killaloe and flap your moon under the full groove. Community Kitchen by Garden Spot and You Festival Radio by Indymedia Ottawa & CHCR Chill Out Space /w video tent Fair Trade Coffee House /w Open-mic Artistic Environment, Mythological themes & audio/visual sync Onsite Camping & Parking Ethical Market Place Children’s Area (crafts, theatre & a bouncy tent) Watering Hole Our Mission: To promote jam, psychedelia, community, and respect by combining learning with celebration and organic with electronic. All in an environment that mixes jam band festival, rave, political demonstration, and rainbow gathering. All this while raising money for local charities and community based organizations.

Response:

why did that ‘freak you?’ : )  i do really want to go.  it looks like a great time.  camping with friends, free yummy food, fantastic workshops, good tunes, fresh air…sounds super excellent!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you really want to go? I read to the end of your post and it freaked me. Trying to get to the Flaps Festival, but don’t quite have the cash? Did you know that you could get a break on your ticket price if you volunteer? The Flaps Festival is looking for some reliable people to help out both before and/or at the event. Think you might be interested? For more information about the Flaps of the Side of the Moon Festival, go to: www.fulltiltboogie.ca We are proud to present the culmination of an organic community building effort that is the Flaps off the Side of the Moon Festival. A 3 day gathering bringing together everyone and their Mother in celebration of Earth, culture, creative expression, fellowship, & respect. Experience a mixture of musical soundscapes from mind blowing local and international talent featured on three main stages that include goa / psy trance, jam bands and breakbeats / hip-hop and reggae. We also invite you to enjoy a variety of captivating workshops and theatrical presentations. The festival is a non-profit initiative, with your contribution returning to the community organizations involved and benefiting a number of charities. Journey with us to the fairgrounds of Killaloe and flap your moon under the full groove. Community Kitchen by Garden Spot and You Festival Radio by Indymedia Ottawa & CHCR Chill Out Space /w video tent Fair Trade Coffee House /w Open-mic Artistic Environment, Mythological themes & audio/visual sync Onsite Camping & Parking Ethical Market Place Children’s Area (crafts, theatre & a bouncy tent) Watering Hole Our Mission: To promote jam, psychedelia, community, and respect by combining learning with celebration and organic with electronic. All in an environment that mixes jam band festival, rave, political demonstration, and rainbow gathering. All this while raising money for local charities and community based organizations.

Response:

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Girl Scouts

Question:

If there is anyone here who has experience with a daughter in scouting, I have a question.  My daughter is in Junior Girl Scouts and for the past couple of months, two girls in her troop have been fighting.  In a couple of instances they had to be physically separated.  My question is, does the troop leader have the authority to kick these girls out of the troop?  I am disappointed that she has not handled the situation better. She has talked to the parents and the parents have yelled at their daughters, but other than that I am not aware of any consequences for their actions.   My daughter really likes this troop leader and does not want to leave the troop, but this is not what I want her learning from scouting!  Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks, Liz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there is anyone here who has experience with a daughter in scouting, I have a question.  My daughter is in Junior Girl Scouts and for the past couple of months, two girls in her troop have been fighting.  In a couple of instances they had to be physically separated.  My question is, does the troop leader have the authority to kick these girls out of the troop?  I am disappointed that she has not handled the situation better. She has talked to the parents and the parents have yelled at their daughters, but other than that I am not aware of any consequences for their actions.   My daughter really likes this troop leader and does not want to leave the troop, but this is not what I want her learning from scouting!  Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks, Liz

I am a Girl Scout leader and even though this is my first year doing this I would not tolerate this kind of behavior in my troop.  If she has talked to the parents and there is still no solution to the problem I would suggest she talk to her Service Unit leader and see if there is a way that one of the girls could be transferred to another troop.  Fighting is definitely not part of the Girl Scout way. — Jo ~

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– If there is anyone here who has experience with a daughter in scouting, I have a question.  My daughter is in Junior Girl Scouts and for the past couple of months, two girls in her troop have been fighting.  In a couple of instances they had to be physically separated.  My question is, does the troop leader have the authority to kick these girls out of the troop?  I am disappointed that she has not handled the situation better. She has talked to the parents and the parents have yelled at their daughters, but other than that I am not aware of any consequences for their actions.   My daughter really likes this troop leader and does not want to leave the troop, but this is not what I want her learning from scouting!  Any feedback would be appreciated. When are they fighting?  It seems to me that if the girls are busy and participating in the troop activities, they usually don’t have time to fight.  How many girls are in the troop?  Is there only one leader present?  What age juniors are you talking about? I would think that the leader might want to tailor her program to do some community building and trust building with the troop that gets the girls to consider each other a real team.   I don’t think that kicking out girls who already paid their dues is possible, though they may be told the leader will not accept them the following year if their behavior does not improve.

Oh nonsense — no volunteer leader has to put up with kids who repeatedly refuse to behave properly After reasonable attempts to correct the situation the leader should require their parent to be there if they are   Do these – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – girls want to be in scouts?  Or is this their parents idea and not theirs?  Are they interested in the badge activities or other things the troop does?  How active is the troop? My dd was a scout from 2nd grade through high school and it was one of the best experiences she had although by high school she was very busy with theater as well Thanks, Liz Dorothy – — —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQEVAwUBPEYb3l9qop09c6NXAQFCjQf+NwTYMVMZdXsP3NTXCpqK0pRQ71xwD0a9 HgEPwH4bu1IwJC2pvdLMiEXLD6SFdFR08d9oxBYBQilaU/z/OjitLU1yyDXCCh0s nof/sod4XF+82vRrSkfbGnw1cKHbVKL5Z1qYqAVTu0DDdYur5ZhIF2oLydz0BxWU MuaWKpbjjIgDNAARGfM1EBUHPdYsDUYGJ4n6GoU6U0ghUgDxjNRXPcaIzun7mXh8 tQj+ObJ8hDOv+htFBuag2jRnpP73hn2CHIZmg2owaEfomjXR85+uiOh327rhIJ0y P3×2mdq4eECWHkV33B+Vb9mJgFZAtHSccUqieQPFs9hTTau16Ld3XA== =CLHg —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

Response:

I currently have two daughters in Scouts, one is a Junior and has been in scouts since Kindergarden. They have a definate plan of action for misbehavior, and parents and the scouts are required to sign stating they have read and understand the rules. Termination is an extreme measure, but is allowed when the proper channels have been followed and did not fix the problem. My first question would be to wonder if these are girls who want to be in scouts at all, or are they ones who are sent there whether they want to be or not. I know you or the scout leader would have no control over that, but if rules were broken, then there would be reason for the scout leader to approach the parents of these girls. Maybe as a parent you could voice your concern about the troop to the leader, and suggest they do a "meeting" concerning what scouting means and the respect of others, and they could bring up the "new rules" then. I have had my daughter in several troops over the years (we haven’t moved, but the troops have disappeared) and all have had some sort of rules and regulations for meetings. Just my two cents worth, Sandi " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there is anyone here who has experience with a daughter in scouting, I have a question.  My daughter is in Junior Girl Scouts and for the past couple of months, two girls in her troop have been fighting.  In a couple of instances they had to be physically separated.  My question is, does the troop leader have the authority to kick these girls out of the troop?  I am disappointed that she has not handled the situation better. She has talked to the parents and the parents have yelled at their daughters, but other than that I am not aware of any consequences for their actions.   My daughter really likes this troop leader and does not want to leave the troop, but this is not what I want her learning from scouting!  Any feedback would be appreciated. When are they fighting?  It seems to me that if the girls are busy and participating in the troop activities, they usually don’t have time to fight.  How many girls are in the troop?  Is there only one leader present?  What age juniors are you talking about? I would think that the leader might want to tailor her program to do some community building and trust building with the troop that gets the girls to consider each other a real team. I don’t think that kicking out girls who already paid their dues is possible, though they may be told the leader will not accept them the following year if their behavior does not improve.  Do these girls want to be in scouts?  Or is this their parents idea and not theirs?  Are they interested in the badge activities or other things the troop does?  How active is the troop? My dd was a scout from 2nd grade through high school and it was one of the best experiences she had although by high school she was very busy with theater as well Thanks, Liz Dorothy – — —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQEVAwUBPEYb3l9qop09c6NXAQFCjQf+NwTYMVMZdXsP3NTXCpqK0pRQ71xwD0a9 HgEPwH4bu1IwJC2pvdLMiEXLD6SFdFR08d9oxBYBQilaU/z/OjitLU1yyDXCCh0s nof/sod4XF+82vRrSkfbGnw1cKHbVKL5Z1qYqAVTu0DDdYur5ZhIF2oLydz0BxWU MuaWKpbjjIgDNAARGfM1EBUHPdYsDUYGJ4n6GoU6U0ghUgDxjNRXPcaIzun7mXh8 tQj+ObJ8hDOv+htFBuag2jRnpP73hn2CHIZmg2owaEfomjXR85+uiOh327rhIJ0y P3×2mdq4eECWHkV33B+Vb9mJgFZAtHSccUqieQPFs9hTTau16Ld3XA== =CLHg —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

Response:

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Running races are cheap comparitively

Question:

<< – - – - -and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t-shirts – - – - –         Hey, my club colors are lime green.  I’d pay extra to get a t-shirt like that! (;-) – - R. Walter R. Walter,  CA

Response:

I think this enters into the territory of everything is relative. I’ve been to many races where I certainly found that they weere worth my $20.00 or sometimes more with late fees, longer distances, etc. Most often, the receiving charities have been unquestionably worthwhile. If nothing else, I believe that the community building is worthwhile. I think the only time I’ve felt cheated is when the distances are mismeasured. I’ve been to a couple where this was a result of course changes or mistakes in a new race. Fine. Lord knows, we all make mistakes. Others have carelessly repeated the mistake with little or no consideration to the work that runners put into training to run their best. I remember one "10k" that I injured myself in the last mile and walked in a "PR". I later learned that this had happened in previous years. The "5/10k" was administered by folks who made it part of some homecoming weekend or something like that at a large private university. Whatever. As to the value, $20.00 has meant different things at different times in my life. I’ve eaten on $20.00 for a week at times and spent the same amount on on so-so dinners for myself when I am too lazy to cook. I’ve walked six miles to save bus fare and spent $$$$ on cabs rather than a bus to save just a few minutes. What’s my point? I’ve no gripe at what a well-run race charges. I knoww that they have all their costs and usually just get by. It would be sad, however, if ones only chance to compete is to fork over $20.00. I am grateful that a lot of local running clubs have weekly or monthly runs that cost little or nothing. I think the highest charge I see at these races is $5.00 for non-members. As far as I can tell, they are always accurate as to distance and timing. Sure you don’t get T-shirts, mile markers, water on course, etc. What I do get is a chance to run against and with folks who care about running. There is no jostling at the starting line. No porta-potty lines. Tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont want to be a troll but to spend $30-$40 on a race isnt a whole lot when you think they have to shut down roads, maybe have finishers medals, promote the race etc. I paid $195 to do the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and $140 to do the Wildflower tri–now thats expensive!  Guess it depends a lot on how well the race is organized and where its at. If the race is around country roads with farmers driving by( no road closures) and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t shirts and the money isnt for any charity and it doesnt post any results on the web plus it takes four hours to post them at the race and they charge you $30, thats a rip. just my thoughts jeremy

Response:

From a runners point of view- the costs are so cheap, $30 a race sounds onerous when you do that several times a year.  Three pairs of shoes maybe $200 and various socks and clothes another $100 a year.  The big hidden cost increased appetite for all those extra calories you are burning. 3000 – 5000 kcals a week is an extra medium meal a day and that isn’t cheap. I figure a $1000 year for the extra food required.

Response:

Many of the races are businesses.  The larger ones have a paid director with possible staff and budgets in the million dollar range. Every major city has services who’ll do about 80% of the work- permits, lay out course, some ads, starting & finishing line, starting at about $3000. You have do the shirt design, target advertising, donation solicitation and provide volunteers. So th math to see the minimum needed to break even.  And can you attract such a crowd in a crowded race season? Theres a catch-22 there. You usually cant get the permits unless you have demonstrated experience, so the first year you are almost required to hire a service.  Subsequent years you can rent equipment and try your own. The first years is also a gamble in attracting a large enough field. Been there, done that.

Response:

I dont want to be a troll but to spend $30-$40 on a race isnt a whole lot when you think they have to shut down roads, maybe have finishers medals, promote the race etc. I paid $195 to do the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and $140 to do the Wildflower tri–now thats expensive!  Guess it depends a lot on how well the race is organized and where its at. If the race is around country roads with farmers driving by( no road closures) and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t shirts and the money isnt for any charity and it doesnt post any results on the web plus it takes four hours to post them at the race and they charge you $30, thats a rip. just my thoughts jeremy

Response:

You’re not a troll.. A troll has another motive other than participating in topical relevant subject matter. My wife finds it hard to believe I spend $20 on these races, but I honestly think it’s a bargain. One way to look at it is looking at the costs of running the race as you have , the other way is the "value" of the race to the runner. Races provide me with incentive prior to the event , comraderie at the event, and a bag o’ goodies after the race. The last race I ran cost me $20 and I got a free pair of smartwool socks valued at $12, plus breakfast. Not to mention free Clif bars, etc etc. I can think of a lot worse things that I could (and do) spend my money on. Drinking – JunkFood – etc.. ~Willy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont want to be a troll but to spend $30-$40 on a race isnt a whole lot when you think they have to shut down roads, maybe have finishers medals, promote the race etc. I paid $195 to do the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and $140 to do the Wildflower tri–now thats expensive!  Guess it depends a lot on how well the race is organized and where its at. If the race is around country roads with farmers driving by( no road closures) and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t shirts and the money isnt for any charity and it doesnt post any results on the web plus it takes four hours to post them at the race and they charge you $30, thats a rip. just my thoughts jeremy

Response:

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Running races are cheap comparitively

Question:

I think this enters into the territory of everything is relative. I’ve been to many races where I certainly found that they weere worth my $20.00 or sometimes more with late fees, longer distances, etc. Most often, the receiving charities have been unquestionably worthwhile. If nothing else, I believe that the community building is worthwhile. I think the only time I’ve felt cheated is when the distances are mismeasured. I’ve been to a couple where this was a result of course changes or mistakes in a new race. Fine. Lord knows, we all make mistakes. Others have carelessly repeated the mistake with little or no consideration to the work that runners put into training to run their best. I remember one "10k" that I injured myself in the last mile and walked in a "PR". I later learned that this had happened in previous years. The "5/10k" was administered by folks who made it part of some homecoming weekend or something like that at a large private university. Whatever. As to the value, $20.00 has meant different things at different times in my life. I’ve eaten on $20.00 for a week at times and spent the same amount on on so-so dinners for myself when I am too lazy to cook. I’ve walked six miles to save bus fare and spent $$$$ on cabs rather than a bus to save just a few minutes. What’s my point? I’ve no gripe at what a well-run race charges. I knoww that they have all their costs and usually just get by. It would be sad, however, if ones only chance to compete is to fork over $20.00. I am grateful that a lot of local running clubs have weekly or monthly runs that cost little or nothing. I think the highest charge I see at these races is $5.00 for non-members. As far as I can tell, they are always accurate as to distance and timing. Sure you don’t get T-shirts, mile markers, water on course, etc. What I do get is a chance to run against and with folks who care about running. There is no jostling at the starting line. No porta-potty lines. Tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont want to be a troll but to spend $30-$40 on a race isnt a whole lot when you think they have to shut down roads, maybe have finishers medals, promote the race etc. I paid $195 to do the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and $140 to do the Wildflower tri–now thats expensive!  Guess it depends a lot on how well the race is organized and where its at. If the race is around country roads with farmers driving by( no road closures) and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t shirts and the money isnt for any charity and it doesnt post any results on the web plus it takes four hours to post them at the race and they charge you $30, thats a rip. just my thoughts jeremy

Response:

<< – - – - -and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t-shirts – - – - –         Hey, my club colors are lime green.  I’d pay extra to get a t-shirt like that! (;-) – - R. Walter R. Walter,  CA

Response:

Many of the races are businesses.  The larger ones have a paid director with possible staff and budgets in the million dollar range. Every major city has services who’ll do about 80% of the work- permits, lay out course, some ads, starting & finishing line, starting at about $3000. You have do the shirt design, target advertising, donation solicitation and provide volunteers. So th math to see the minimum needed to break even.  And can you attract such a crowd in a crowded race season? Theres a catch-22 there. You usually cant get the permits unless you have demonstrated experience, so the first year you are almost required to hire a service.  Subsequent years you can rent equipment and try your own. The first years is also a gamble in attracting a large enough field. Been there, done that.

Response:

From a runners point of view- the costs are so cheap, $30 a race sounds onerous when you do that several times a year.  Three pairs of shoes maybe $200 and various socks and clothes another $100 a year.  The big hidden cost increased appetite for all those extra calories you are burning. 3000 – 5000 kcals a week is an extra medium meal a day and that isn’t cheap. I figure a $1000 year for the extra food required.

Response:

I dont want to be a troll but to spend $30-$40 on a race isnt a whole lot when you think they have to shut down roads, maybe have finishers medals, promote the race etc. I paid $195 to do the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and $140 to do the Wildflower tri–now thats expensive!  Guess it depends a lot on how well the race is organized and where its at. If the race is around country roads with farmers driving by( no road closures) and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t shirts and the money isnt for any charity and it doesnt post any results on the web plus it takes four hours to post them at the race and they charge you $30, thats a rip. just my thoughts jeremy

Response:

You’re not a troll.. A troll has another motive other than participating in topical relevant subject matter. My wife finds it hard to believe I spend $20 on these races, but I honestly think it’s a bargain. One way to look at it is looking at the costs of running the race as you have , the other way is the "value" of the race to the runner. Races provide me with incentive prior to the event , comraderie at the event, and a bag o’ goodies after the race. The last race I ran cost me $20 and I got a free pair of smartwool socks valued at $12, plus breakfast. Not to mention free Clif bars, etc etc. I can think of a lot worse things that I could (and do) spend my money on. Drinking – JunkFood – etc.. ~Willy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont want to be a troll but to spend $30-$40 on a race isnt a whole lot when you think they have to shut down roads, maybe have finishers medals, promote the race etc. I paid $195 to do the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and $140 to do the Wildflower tri–now thats expensive!  Guess it depends a lot on how well the race is organized and where its at. If the race is around country roads with farmers driving by( no road closures) and no policemen on the course monitoring traffic and it has lime green and purple t shirts and the money isnt for any charity and it doesnt post any results on the web plus it takes four hours to post them at the race and they charge you $30, thats a rip. just my thoughts jeremy

Response:

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Notes from a *healthy* Newsgroup.

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was multiplayer  - it wasn’t massive.  :) -W Background: The first massivly multiplayer online game *ever* was Kesmai’s Air Warrior which went live on Genie in 1987. 1. No, it wasn’t. It was WarLords. Pre-1985. 2. We’ve seen the Nieman Marcus cookie recipe, we’ve heard the duckjob.wav. I haven’t. Would you mind reposting them? It would be the first time I’ve read something useful from you.

1. It is quite possible we are not discussing the same game of Warlords. There have been serveral, completely different. The one I have in mind was a multiplayer text space adventure game. 2. Massive is in the eyes of the beholder. And where’s the cookie recipe?

Response:

You and Skippy share the *same* test of the worth of a person I see. What I just posted was the most usefull thing I’ve ever posted.

1. Eh? Too obscure, Wayne. 2. No, you didn’t post the *.wav or the recipe.

Response:

You and Skippy share the *same* test of the worth of a person I see. What I just posted was the most usefull thing I’ve ever posted. 1. Eh? Too obscure, Wayne. 2. No, you didn’t post the *.wav or the recipe.

EMAIL IT TO HIM……EVERY HOUR!!

Response:

I’m not that cruel…. -WA1MKH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You and Skippy share the *same* test of the worth of a person I see. What I just posted was the most usefull thing I’ve ever posted. 1. Eh? Too obscure, Wayne. 2. No, you didn’t post the *.wav or the recipe. EMAIL IT TO HIM……EVERY HOUR!!

Response:

It was multiplayer  - it wasn’t massive.  :) -W

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Background: The first massivly multiplayer online game *ever* was Kesmai’s Air Warrior which went live on Genie in 1987. 1. No, it wasn’t. It was WarLords. Pre-1985. 2. We’ve seen the Nieman Marcus cookie recipe, we’ve heard the duckjob.wav. I haven’t. Would you mind reposting them? It would be the first time I’ve read something useful from you.

Response:

You and Skippy share the *same* test of the worth of a person I see. What I just posted was the most usefull thing I’ve ever posted. I’m done replying, and this thread doesn’t relvolve around you. -W

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It would be the first time I’ve read something useful from you.

Response:

Background: The first massivly multiplayer online game *ever* was Kesmai’s Air Warrior which went live on Genie in 1987.  

1. No, it wasn’t. It was WarLords. Pre-1985. 2. We’ve seen the Nieman Marcus cookie recipe, we’ve heard the duckjob.wav. I haven’t. Would you mind reposting them? It would be the first time I’ve read something useful from you.

Response:

Background: The first massivly multiplayer online game *ever* was Kesmai’s Air Warrior which went live on Genie in 1987.  The community that evolved around this game broke a *lot* of ground in the science of the care and feeding of internet communities. Alas, EA bought Kesmai (and Air Warrior) and with the recent folding of of EA.com the passtime itself has died. <pauses for gratuitous moment of silence The remarkable thing though,  is that the core community is stronger than ever. A private NNTP server went up before the old boards even came down! The *people* refuse to part ways. The friends made have become "real". One person there recently had a heart attack, after he called 911,  he posted to the NG to ask for prayers from the masses.  It was then we all recognized the power of this medium. Most had never met this guy, but we prayed our asses off that we wouldn’t lose soemone who had been a friend for years online. And the fact that he thought to tell *us* at all, as a priority, spoke volumes about what we’ve created via  a simple newsgroup. Someone (half jokingly) made up an FAQ for our new newsgroup. But within it are all the clues gleaned over years of online communication and community building. Some of you will read this and see little of value. Others will glean some gems.  I’m sorry the text wrapped funny. All I can do is fill the water tray – I can’t force people to drink. -W PS: The first paragraph is specific to the game environment – but you could readily substitite any hobby there and make it relevant to any newsgroup. Attn: Fish!   Or    "An FAQ for those new to the newsgroup" So you’ve decided to wander into ******* ? First things first. You aren’t anything new or exciting. We don’t care how long you’ve been playing, we don’t care about your kill totals, points, who you’ve killed or what you killed them with. Your seemingly fresh, inventive, and righteous viewpoints will likely be picked apart in a manner so vicious and rampant that vultures will find it repulsive. We don’t care what you do for a living. We don’t care about your accomplishments within a game. This is an electronic bullshit session that never ends. It is a neighborhood bar recreated for a bad Sci-fi channel, late night, made for TV special. It never really changes, it just gets an occasional new face. That being said, it’s time to set some ground rules: 1. Topics. Guns, God, and politics. I dare you to start a conversation on any of these three topics. You can argue all you want, your arguments have not only been heard before, they have been fought over inch by inch like a WW1 battlefield. Healthy discussion of any and all topics is encouraged, but don’t be surprised when the flames start flying. (note: if you don’t know what a flame is, RUN, don’t walk, to the nearest exit. This isn’t the place for you.) If you can’t take a little drubbing now and then, this isn’t the place for you. Your points will be countered, both by closed minded folk who know they’re right and you’re wrong, As well as by open minded people who enjoy discussion. Idiots are encouraged to shoot their mouths off, and they usually do. Be prepared to defend every aspect of any topic you bring up. No one will say: "You’ve got a point. You’re right, I’m wrong, I’ll drop my arguments." 2. Posts. If you’re here, you likely have some rudimentary knowledge of how to use a newsreader. Congratulations. However, you’re no Jean-Luc Picard. HTML is a wonderful markup language, but it was not made for posting to newsgroups. HTML is considered a symptom of the disease known as cluelessness. If your concepts don’t stand up as plain text, turning them into red, 96 point wingdings won’t help.  Also note that just to the left of your "a" key is the caps lock key, it should be used only when necessary. As a matter of courtesy, outlook users who add everyone into their address book will be shot. It goes without saying virii and other bits of malicious code will be reported to abuse and local authorities. If you’re lucky. Links to web sites are nice; try not to wrap them. If the link isn’t very intuitive, provide a short description. We’re a lazy lot. Make your subjects concise. Try not to re-use subject titles, as some news readers like to lose them in the shuffle of posts and there are roughly 200-400 posts per 24 hour period. Don’t be a seagull. (Fly in, crap all over everything, then leave. It’s rude.) DON’T SPAM. Everyone has a kill file and knows how to use it. We’ve seen the Nieman Marcus cookie recipe, we’ve heard the duckjob.wav. Got a cool picture? Don’t post it as a bitmap (.BMP). Flash Games and other "cool" E-mail forwarded executables can be the host for spyware, ad-ware and other annoyances. 3. Trolls. Go right ahead and try. Even the biggest fish in these waters have hook scars. But it’s not a socially acceptable way of introducing yourself. If you’re a fresh fish, it would be wise to wait and see who should and shouldn’t be trolled. You don’t want to hook a 12-ft marlin while looking for a guppy. 4. Courtesy and Ethics. Discussions get heated around here. If you don’t like it, walk away. It’s a big scary world out there, but if you can’t take a bloody nose, you should go back to an AOL community chat. The insults here are generally good-natured, but mostly because the people insulting each other have been doing so for the past few years. Don’t expect to waltz in and be able to call somebody a rim-jobbing, poodle pumping, cockmaster after a day or two. Don’t expect to call someone a wetback-kyke-spic-jig-hun-gook-dago- wop-camel jockey – *ever*. People share some personal life details here. Woe to the scum sucking bastich that uses those shared tidbits to hurt someone  later during the heat of battle. And if things get really bad with you and another person here, Please take it to e-mail. While it’s there, keep it there. If it gets that bad, the rest of us don’t want to hear about it. There’s nothing worse than seeing "well he called me this in an e-mail he sent me." It’s time for the first use of the double standard phrase you’ll hear around these parts. "Grow Up." We’re all adults around here. If not chronologically, then at least mentally, though we do tend to act childishly for the majority of the day. Subscribe to the news group, read the discussions for a few days, (this is known as lurking.) then decide if you want to toss your hat in the ring. We are a generally accepting lot. We are user friendly, but we can be rather selective about who our friends are. Do yourself a favor. Get in the ford explorer, take the dollar tour of jurassic park, then decide if you want to get out and walk around. And don’t go pissing in the T-rex enclosure. 5. Grammar and Spelling. We make English teachers cry. You have a newsreader. It has a spell checker. I strongly suggest you use it. Don’t get pissy about being corrected on the usage of "You’re" and "They’re." You’ve probably graduated middle school by this point, should you want to have dinner at the adults table, you should be able to speak the language. "U", "R", "cuz", and any other abbreviations of common words don’t fly in a series debate. 6. Enjoy yourself. This isn’t a bad place, it just has a very steep learning curve. There is a nice relaxed atmosphere that is punctuated with alternating levels of maturity and immaturity. Learn which one is which, and which one is appropriate. This is a public board, with no form of censorship, no corporate affiliations, and no terms of service. Every rule here is unwritten, except for what you’re reading now. Even these aren’t written rules. They’re *suggestions* on conduct. I suggest you follow them. 7. If you don’t know, ask. Stupid questions are forgotten far faster than stupid actions. 8. Words of Wisdom  –Before you post, think.

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creating open family?

Question:

Amy: This reply is late in coming, so please excuse me if I repeat what others may have already said. Here is a new dilemma of min for y’all.  how to build c ommunity for my kids? Short history: Moved long distance with s2bx 4 years ago w/13 year old. Got pregnant (obviously, 9 months ) Three months after birth, bought house, moved to 2nd community in large city Second school system for oldest boy. When younger child 2, find out about s2bx’s affair. At 3 years old, s2bx files for divorce. S2bx has had 3 jobs in the last 4 years. A few of the difficulties of my situation includes moving far away from family, and not having much time to build a community for my kids, knowing other moms, church affiliations, even neighborhood friends.

Too bad we are not closer together, Amy .  Move over for we are in the same boat .  How can I start creating a group of people who know, and will help with my children. I am not sure if they have anything remotely similar where you live, but in The Great White North, I belong to a group called Parents Without Partners. Not only do they have weekly meetings for us parents to socialize and find support, they also include many parent/child weekend activities such as picnics, skating, etc.  You can tell from the expression on our children’s faces that they feel a part of a much needed "group" since most of their inner circle of friends’ parents are still married. An added bonus for me was that upon joining, a nonbinding, "on your honor" agreement is made that members do not pursue other members, limiting the number of "dating trolls". The book Mom’s House, Dad’s house talked about having an open community where you could share watching kids, or trips to museums and create some time and family for them.  In my previous community I had lots of friends and family who would come on road trips with my kids, or share Thanksgiving dinner, or even babysit so I could go to a concert.

Amy, one thing I have found is that if you can’t find what you and yours need and it is a missing from your community, start a support group yourself.  Yes, initially it would entail a lot of work, though this could be a hidden bonus in keeping you busy and even involving your children as helpers.  It sounds like a great idea! Anybody (thanks) who has been reading my posts knows we will probably have to move again.  And personally, I miss being around friends and family who help me love and value and enjoy my children.  I need some human being support here. I have a few good friends from working, but most of them are working moms struggling to manage their own families.  And single professionals with no interest in helping my kids adjust (again) Any suggestions, outside of picking a church and landing on their doorstep with lots of need and hurt?  Shoot On top of getting divorced, finding more work, raising two kids, selling a

Yeah, all the "to be done’s" at times feel endless.  But the need for emotional, community support for you and your children far outweighs some other responsibility that could be put on the back burner for now.   We have been so isolated, and I feel too needy to fall apart in front of kind and well meaning

neighbors. Again, Amy, I can relate.  I am in the midst of deciding a hopefully, long lasting home for our children and myself that will accomodate everyone’s needs, including my stbx.  So much to consider:  visitation schedules, new job, new schools, new support group, to be near family or not…the list seems endless at times.  Paramount to me is giving the girls "roots" and security.  It would break my heart having to put them through another move if I don’t do my "homework" <baring any incidents beyond my control. Any ideas Thanks Amy

Good luck! Kats

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is a new dilemma of min for y’all.  how to build c ommunity for my kids? <snip The book Mom’s House, Dad’s house talked about having an open community where you could share watching kids, or trips to museums and create some time and family for them.  In my previous community I had lots of friends and family who would come on road trips with my kids, or share Thanksgiving dinner, or even babysit so I could go to a concert. Anybody (thanks) who has been reading my posts knows we will probably have to move again.  And personally, I miss being around friends and family who help me love and value and enjoy my children.  I need some human being support here. I have a few good friends from working, but most of them are working moms struggling to manage their own families.  And single professionals with no interest in helping my kids adjust (again)

<snip I don’t understand. What’s wrong with your few good friends who are working moms? I would think they’d be ideal. — Jeri "Set your course by the stars, and not by the lights of every passing ship." -Omar Bradley

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Most of them are very involved with their own children’s daily education, nightly afterschool activities, and they’re own solid marriages.  I feel as if i infringe upon their own families to include mine in activities that are designed with their own husbands and kids.  Kind of like that third wheel thing, except with children to boot!  As of yet, I don’t know any single parents.  My chick friends are good telephone pals and all, but like most women with families, they are pretty heavily overloaded with their own. Amy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is a new dilemma of min for y’all.  how to build c ommunity for my kids? <snip The book Mom’s House, Dad’s house talked about having an open community where you could share watching kids, or trips to museums and create some time and family for them.  In my previous community I had lots of friends and family who would come on road trips with my kids, or share Thanksgiving dinner, or even babysit so I could go to a concert. Anybody (thanks) who has been reading my posts knows we will probably have to move again.  And personally, I miss being around friends and family who help me love and value and enjoy my children.  I need some human being support here. I have a few good friends from working, but most of them are working moms struggling to manage their own families.  And single professionals with no interest in helping my kids adjust (again) <snip I don’t understand. What’s wrong with your few good friends who are working moms? I would think they’d be ideal. — Jeri "Set your course by the stars, and not by the lights of every passing ship." -Omar Bradley

Response:

Thank you, same situation here.  Moved for s2bx’s work.  As his career took off, I just stayed closer to home.  Didn’t network for greater employment, but got involved with kids school stuff and sports etc. I had spent 14 years in former community building my own business, and open family.  Thanks for the words of encouragement.  I know it can be done, but sometimes I feel like I have little to offer in terms of friendship.  My own family needs so much right now, especially with two boys. You have a wonderful and optimistic attitude, I think i’ll borrow it just for today, teeheehee Amy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amy…any chance at all, of moving back to a place close to family and friends? I’m in the same situation…moved to Calgary after 18 years in one place.  Moved here for his job….he was the one with the friends and social life here.  I know two people.  Now he’s gone, and I’m left hanging. I haven’t gotten motivated enough yet, but I do plan on doing some volunteer work, as well as getting involved with the singing group my 11 year old daughter is involved in as well.  Hopefully, I’ll meet some people that way.  I guess it’s just a matter of us getting "out there" and finding people with similar interests.  In your case, maybe a "Mommy and Me" playgroup, or swimming lessons? Good luck with it….hang in there – we’ll make friends and get support somehow.  I mean, we’re wonderful folks…who wouldn’t want to be our friend?  :)))))) Hugs Kathy Here is a new dilemma of min for y’all.  how to build c ommunity for my kids? Short history: Moved long distance with s2bx 4 years ago w/13 year old. Got pregnant (obviously, 9 months ) Three months after birth, bought house, moved to 2nd community in large city Second school system for oldest boy. When younger child 2, find out about s2bx’s affair. At 3 years old, s2bx files for divorce. S2bx has had 3 jobs in the last 4 years. A few of the difficulties of my situation includes moving far away from family, and not having much time to build a community for my kids, knowing other moms, church affiliations, even neighborhood friends.  How can I start creating a group of people who know, and will help with my children. The book Mom’s House, Dad’s house talked about having an open community where you could share watching kids, or trips to museums and create some time and family for them.  In my previous community I had lots of friends and family who would come on road trips with my kids, or share Thanksgiving dinner, or even babysit so I could go to a concert. Anybody (thanks) who has been reading my posts knows we will probably have to move again.  And personally, I miss being around friends and family who help me love and value and enjoy my children.  I need some human being support here. I have a few good friends from working, but most of them are working moms struggling to manage their own families.  And single professionals with no interest in helping my kids adjust (again) Any suggestions, outside of picking a church and landing on their doorstep with lots of need and hurt?  Shoot On top of getting divorced, finding more work, raising two kids, selling a and I feel too needy to fall apart in front of kind and well meaning neighbors. Any ideas Thanks Amy

Response:

Amy…any chance at all, of moving back to a place close to family and friends? I’m in the same situation…moved to Calgary after 18 years in one place.  Moved here for his job….he was the one with the friends and social life here.  I know two people.  Now he’s gone, and I’m left hanging.   I haven’t gotten motivated enough yet, but I do plan on doing some volunteer work, as well as getting involved with the singing group my 11 year old daughter is involved in as well.  Hopefully, I’ll meet some people that way.  I guess it’s just a matter of us getting "out there" and finding people with similar interests.  In your case, maybe a "Mommy and Me" playgroup, or swimming lessons? Good luck with it….hang in there – we’ll make friends and get support somehow.  I mean, we’re wonderful folks…who wouldn’t want to be our friend?  :)))))) Hugs Kathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is a new dilemma of min for y’all.  how to build c ommunity for my kids? Short history: Moved long distance with s2bx 4 years ago w/13 year old. Got pregnant (obviously, 9 months ) Three months after birth, bought house, moved to 2nd community in large city Second school system for oldest boy. When younger child 2, find out about s2bx’s affair. At 3 years old, s2bx files for divorce. S2bx has had 3 jobs in the last 4 years. A few of the difficulties of my situation includes moving far away from family, and not having much time to build a community for my kids, knowing other moms, church affiliations, even neighborhood friends.  How can I start creating a group of people who know, and will help with my children. The book Mom’s House, Dad’s house talked about having an open community where you could share watching kids, or trips to museums and create some time and family for them.  In my previous community I had lots of friends and family who would come on road trips with my kids, or share Thanksgiving dinner, or even babysit so I could go to a concert. Anybody (thanks) who has been reading my posts knows we will probably have to move again.  And personally, I miss being around friends and family who help me love and value and enjoy my children.  I need some human being support here. I have a few good friends from working, but most of them are working moms struggling to manage their own families.  And single professionals with no interest in helping my kids adjust (again) Any suggestions, outside of picking a church and landing on their doorstep with lots of need and hurt?  Shoot On top of getting divorced, finding more work, raising two kids, selling a I feel too needy to fall apart in front of kind and well meaning neighbors. Any ideas Thanks Amy

Response:

Here is a new dilemma of min for y’all.  how to build c ommunity for my kids? Short history: Moved long distance with s2bx 4 years ago w/13 year old. Got pregnant (obviously, 9 months ) Three months after birth, bought house, moved to 2nd community in large city Second school system for oldest boy. When younger child 2, find out about s2bx’s affair. At 3 years old, s2bx files for divorce. S2bx has had 3 jobs in the last 4 years. A few of the difficulties of my situation includes moving far away from family, and not having much time to build a community for my kids, knowing other moms, church affiliations, even neighborhood friends.  How can I start creating a group of people who know, and will help with my children. The book Mom’s House, Dad’s house talked about having an open community where you could share watching kids, or trips to museums and create some time and family for them.  In my previous community I had lots of friends and family who would come on road trips with my kids, or share Thanksgiving dinner, or even babysit so I could go to a concert. Anybody (thanks) who has been reading my posts knows we will probably have to move again.  And personally, I miss being around friends and family who help me love and value and enjoy my children.  I need some human being support here. I have a few good friends from working, but most of them are working moms struggling to manage their own families.  And single professionals with no interest in helping my kids adjust (again) Any suggestions, outside of picking a church and landing on their doorstep with lots of need and hurt?  Shoot On top of getting divorced, finding more work, raising two kids, selling a I feel too needy to fall apart in front of kind and well meaning neighbors. Any ideas Thanks Amy

Response:

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Talk to me please

Question:

Feeling lonely.  Please, can someone talk to me? Beauty.

hi, i am here. i was fixin to go to bed but i log in and see you are loenly. i am kind of lonely too. my t left today for vacation for a week and my chiropactor is in jamica and when she gets back she is moving out of town anyway. i dont have any freidns in this town. asd is my freidns. i had to thrwo out my coffee too becas it makes my day go bad. how has your day been Beauty. t.

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Feeling lonely.  Please, can someone talk to me? Beauty.

Response:

hi Beauty, i get lonely lots, too.  mostly, though, i just figure that i’m being selfish, and that i’m supposed to be this way.  that i don’t have any business feeling bad about feeling lonely and sad.  that that’s the way it’s supposed to be.   how come you’re feeling lonely tonight?  are you feeling any better?  when i feel sick and sad and stressed, and don’t feel like really doing anything, sometimes i just sit in front of my computer and wish someone would write to me so i had someone to talk to.  of course, nobody does, so then i feel worse.  i’m silly that way, sometimes. did you get the tv yet? diane

Response:

Hi – Thanks for writing.  You are nice to write.  Did you see the movie Crouch*ng Dr*gon (I splat for trolls)?  I haven’t, but heard it is wonderful.  Hope to see it soon.  We are feeling sort of better, but we just saw a difficult video that wasn’t nice, but it’s okay.  We don’t think a person should watch The Gl*diator if you are triggery at all, at all, at all about vi*olence.  Very bad that way, very bad.  But we watched, and it felt manipulative, too.  But we saw it all the way through – we do watch films, for the films’ sake.  Thanks again for writing.  It is nice to have a little conversation.  Why lonely?  I think because I’ve been sick and cooped up.  I think that’s probably mostly it.   Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!  I will talk with (to) you.  What would you like to talk about? I like using the computer alot.  I just learned how to surf this last year and found the newsgroups in the fall. There are lots of good ones….some even funny like alt.fan.dragons. What is making you feel lonely today? , Cloudy

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Hi!  I will talk with (to) you.  What would you like to talk about? I like using the computer alot.  I just learned how to surf this last year and found the newsgroups in the fall. There are lots of good ones….some even funny like alt.fan.dragons. What is making you feel lonely today? , Cloudy

Response:

Hi Diane – Thanks for writing.  After I wrote that, I decided that even though I wasn’t still feeling totally good, and even though it was snowing, I would go to karate.  It was the right choice.  I felt better.  No t.v. yet.  We call tomorrow, I think. And we sorry about feeling lonely and sad – it isn’t the way you are have to feel and we want it to be that you are knowing we are friends. Yes, it’s like that when I get sick – I lots of times end up feeling very locked in after a while.  But, yes, I am doing better, and now even better, because of friends writing from asd – how I can count on yous peoples here, and on Ravensong friend. Thanks – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi Beauty, i get lonely lots, too.  mostly, though, i just figure that i’m being selfish, and that i’m supposed to be this way.  that i don’t have any business feeling bad about feeling lonely and sad.  that that’s the way it’s supposed to be. how come you’re feeling lonely tonight?  are you feeling any better?  when i feel sick and sad and stressed, and don’t feel like really doing anything, sometimes i just sit in front of my computer and wish someone would write to me so i had someone to talk to.  of course, nobody does, so then i feel worse.  i’m silly that way, sometimes. did you get the tv yet? diane

Response:

Hi t. – We feel that you are there.  Thank you for writing.  We know you were feeling bad, too, and hope you are doing better.  Sorry about the coffee.  We gave up caffeine years ago.  It’s kind of tough, because we don’t do sugar, either, if we are doing what we are supposed to do, and we don’t like to do aspartame.  So it’s kind of tough.  But we do like herbal teas sometimes, and mostly we like lots and lots of cold water. Yum.  I feel sorry that you are being sad about your chiropractor.  I remember that.  I hope you can be able to visit one day, though.  Please give your cat a nice pet from me, and tell me sometime what color your cat is, okay?  We were watching movie tonight and eating a bit of special cheese, but it was too rich, so we put it down, and guess what? The cats came and stole it!!!  Right from beneath our feet!  We did get amused.  Bad, bad cats!!!  (Funny good cats.) Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Feeling lonely.  Please, can someone talk to me? Beauty. hi, i am here. i was fixin to go to bed but i log in and see you are loenly. i am kind of lonely too. my t left today for vacation for a week and my chiropactor is in jamica and when she gets back she is moving out of town anyway. i dont have any freidns in this town. asd is my freidns. i had to thrwo out my coffee too becas it makes my day go bad. how has your day been Beauty. t.

Response:

I know how you feel… Seems I am spending more days staring at walls wondering what life is and am I really living? Alone sucks… I hope your doing better ! My blood pressure has been kind of high all this week which is something new for me. Tired all the time and got headaches from it… um… sorry I don’t seem to have much to say, kind of in a box right now wondering if the lid is going to be closed this time or not…. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Feeling lonely.  Please, can someone talk to me? Beauty.

Response:

Hi t. – We feel that you are there.  Thank you for writing.  We know you were feeling bad, too, and hope you are doing better.  Sorry about the coffee.  We gave up caffeine years ago.  It’s kind of tough, because we don’t do sugar, either, if we are doing what we are supposed to do, and we don’t like to do aspartame.

do you know about sucralose? it’s a sugar substitute made, somehow, from sugar but metabolized differently. it’s been available in canada for some time and has just in the last few months been marketed in the u.s. too, under the brand name splenda. we don’t do sugar either, but we use splenda when we need our tea sweetened. So it’s kind of tough.  But we do like herbal teas sometimes, and mostly we like lots and lots of cold water. Yum.  I feel sorry that you are being sad about your chiropractor.  I remember that.  I hope you can be able to visit one day, though.

they have invited me to, but i know how i am about relationships… Please give your cat a nice pet from me, and tell me sometime what color your cat is, okay?

oh, she is beautiful. she’s a blue spotted dsh with a silvery cream undercoat. she’s little, too. she’ll be a year old in april, give or take a month. We were watching movie tonight and eating a bit of special cheese, but it was too rich, so we put it down, and guess what? The cats came and stole it!!!  Right from beneath our feet!  We did get amused.  Bad, bad cats!!!  (Funny good cats.)

tv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beauty. Feeling lonely.  Please, can someone talk to me? Beauty. hi, i am here. i was fixin to go to bed but i log in and see you are loenly. i am kind of lonely too. my t left today for vacation for a week and my chiropactor is in jamica and when she gets back she is moving out of town anyway. i dont have any freidns in this town. asd is my freidns. i had to thrwo out my coffee too becas it makes my day go bad. how has your day been Beauty. t.

Response:

Good morning!  Are you much better today?  I hope so.  Thanks for the warning about the Gl*diator.  I haven’t watched it yet as a matter of fact. Did someone tell you it was good and you decided to check it out? Maybe after you have had time to process it more, you will find something useful from it (besides the warning?).  I don’t know if you process fast or not. No, I haven’t seen the other movie you referred to , but will keep an eye out for it.  How long have you been in this NG?  I just found it recently. Do you have a FAQ you could post the url to? , Cloudy

Response:

hey beauty how are you feeling..i am here ….sorta i havent been posting i havent been in a fair place lately sorry .i dont belong here i can see that but i will lurk and read .. i hope u feel better

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Well, The Gl*diator is supposed to be a classically good film – we already knew from the outset it would undoubtedly be grim.  We can do that nowadays – gotten better at dissociating from more things when necessary.  It didn’t get to me, really, because it was so manipulative in its attempts to wring certain emotions out of the audience, and the symbolism in some places is very heavy-handed.  It also has this monotonous pseudo-Celtic moaning woo-ey music.  It gets old after a while.  My thumbnail critique of the film.  On the other hand, you get Jo*quim Phoen*x in a supremely infantile evil role, R*ssell Cr*we as the Chr*st figure gl*diator, R*chard H*rris as the good emperor, and Ol*ver R**d’s last role, as a former gl*diator who won his freedom and went on to become an entrepreneur in gl*diatorial spectacles.  After watching it, though, I am prepared to feel that perhaps Rome was the most horrible place ever in the universe.  The degree of corrupt brutality – layer upon layer of it.  I can’t even describe.  Okay, maybe the Aztecs were worse – we don’t know as much about them. I’ve been around the ng for a while – on and off for several years.  I think that some others have such a post, but I can’t recall who – e? embies?  I think embies posted that just a little while ago, like sometime this week or last.  Can you check back through the old posts? Tired – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good morning!  Are you much better today?  I hope so.  Thanks for the warning about the Gl*diator.  I haven’t watched it yet as a matter of fact. Did someone tell you it was good and you decided to check it out? Maybe after you have had time to process it more, you will find something useful from it (besides the warning?).  I don’t know if you process fast or not. No, I haven’t seen the other movie you referred to , but will keep an eye out for it.  How long have you been in this NG?  I just found it recently. Do you have a FAQ you could post the url to? , Cloudy

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Really kind of you to write.  I am sorry about the blood pressure.  Is it a constant problem, or just with stress?  I’m better today, thanks. I was just sick for a while and cooped up and I think that did it, in part. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know how you feel… Seems I am spending more days staring at walls wondering what life is and am I really living? Alone sucks… I hope your doing better ! My blood pressure has been kind of high all this week which is something new for me. Tired all the time and got headaches from it… um… sorry I don’t seem to have much to say, kind of in a box right now wondering if the lid is going to be closed this time or not…. John Feeling lonely.  Please, can someone talk to me? Beauty.

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hey beauty how are you feeling..i am here ….sorta i havent been posting i havent been in a fair place lately sorry .i dont belong here i can see that

why? we aint said much but we like you to be here. tv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but i will lurk and read .. i hope u feel better

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Hi t. – We feel that you are there.  Thank you for writing.  We know you were feeling bad, too, and hope you are doing better.  Sorry about the coffee.  We gave up caffeine years ago.  It’s kind of tough, because we don’t do sugar, either, if we are doing what we are supposed to do, and we don’t like to do aspartame. do you know about sucralose? it’s a sugar substitute made, somehow, from sugar but metabolized differently. it’s been available in canada for some time and has just in the last few months been marketed in the u.s. too, under the brand name splenda. we don’t do sugar either, but we use splenda when we need our tea sweetened.

Thank you for the sucralose/splenda tip.  I will check into it. Potential side effects? So it’s kind of tough.  But we do like herbal teas sometimes, and mostly we like lots and lots of cold water. Yum.  I feel sorry that you are being sad about your chiropractor.  I remember that.  I hope you can be able to visit one day, though. they have invited me to, but i know how i am about relationships… Please give your cat a nice pet from me, and tell me sometime what color your cat is, okay? oh, she is beautiful. she’s a blue spotted dsh with a silvery cream undercoat. she’s little, too. she’ll be a year old in april, give or take a month.

Oooooh she sounds so beautiful.  Rather like our beloved Myrtille, whom we lost a year ago the end of this coming February.  And haves name? We were watching movie tonight and eating a bit of special cheese, but it was too rich, so we put it down, and guess what? The cats came and stole it!!!  Right from beneath our feet!  We did get amused.  Bad, bad cats!!!  (Funny good cats.) tv

Thanks for writing. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beauty. Feeling lonely.  Please, can someone talk to me? Beauty. hi, i am here. i was fixin to go to bed but i log in and see you are loenly. i am kind of lonely too. my t left today for vacation for a week and my chiropactor is in jamica and when she gets back she is moving out of town anyway. i dont have any freidns in this town. asd is my freidns. i had to thrwo out my coffee too becas it makes my day go bad. how has your day been Beauty. t.

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Thank you, Nancy.  We’ve just come from seeing Cr*uching T*ger, H*dden Dr*gon – the Chinese film about women warriors – oooooh, very powerful to see women using their energy and skills seriously, with men as well as other women.  And the image at the end was so beautiful.  If any woman likes fantasies of revenge against certain male thug or bully types, there will be some satisfying scenes. We are smelling something good in the kitchen.  We think our husband has made curry – mmmmm – and papadums – Going downstairs now – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beauty, I’m sorry to hear you’ve been feeling lonely, and I’m glad you felt better after karate. That sounds like a very healing, empowering, community-building experience for you. I also like herbal tea and cold water lots, and I can’t have caffeine and can have limited sugar (I tend to overdo it on chocolate .  I hope you’re continuing to feel better. -Nancy

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Beauty, I’m sorry to hear you’ve been feeling lonely, and I’m glad you felt better after karate. That sounds like a very healing, empowering, community-building experience for you. I also like herbal tea and cold water lots, and I can’t have caffeine and can have limited sugar (I tend to overdo it on chocolate .  I hope you’re continuing to feel better. -Nancy

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Pettings to Lola, sweet little kitty, and we think her fur must be so soft.  We are glad she came to live with you.  She will be so bonded to you.  Thanks for introducing us. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] Thank you for the sucralose/splenda tip.  I will check into it. Potential side effects? here are two web sites, one that says it’s safe and one that says it’s not. http://diabeticgourmet.com/articles/00articles/21.shtml http://www.holisticmed.com/splenda/ [...] Please give your cat a nice pet from me, and tell me sometime what color your cat is, okay? oh, she is beautiful. she’s a blue spotted dsh with a silvery cream undercoat. she’s little, too. she’ll be a year old in april, give or take a month. Oooooh she sounds so beautiful.  Rather like our beloved Myrtille, whom we lost a year ago the end of this coming February. And haves name? her name is Lola. it took a long time to name her. for weeks we just called her sweet little kitty. we had to get to know her first before we could give her a name. then the universal lola-ness appeared and invited itself in to be her name. though mostly i still just call her sweetie . tv

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Thank you for writing.  I am concerned to know why you feel you don’t belong here.  That concerns me.  We don’t think you don’t belong – we feel you do belong, so far as any of us can say.  It doesn’t feel that way to you?  Please let us know if there is anything we can do to make this place more comfortable for you. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey beauty how are you feeling..i am here ….sorta i havent been posting i havent been in a fair place lately sorry .i dont belong here i can see that but i will lurk and read .. i hope u feel better

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[...] Thank you for the sucralose/splenda tip.  I will check into it. Potential side effects?

here are two web sites, one that says it’s safe and one that says it’s not. http://diabeticgourmet.com/articles/00articles/21.shtml http://www.holisticmed.com/splenda/ [...] Please give your cat a nice pet from me, and tell me sometime what color your cat is, okay? oh, she is beautiful. she’s a blue spotted dsh with a silvery cream undercoat. she’s little, too. she’ll be a year old in april, give or take a month. Oooooh she sounds so beautiful.  Rather like our beloved Myrtille, whom we lost a year ago the end of this coming February.

And haves name?

her name is Lola. it took a long time to name her. for weeks we just called her sweet little kitty. we had to get to know her first before we could give her a name. then the universal lola-ness appeared and invited itself in to be her name. though mostly i still just call her sweetie . tv

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Please I wanted to say thanks to those who saw my post…. As someone who suffers from these problems dis. depression. anxiety I have problems feeling as if I fit in anywhere all my messed up sorry life. these past weeks have been awful, not to take away from those here who have alot more to contend with. cause I sure dont want to. I am so sorry if I made the statement about not fitting in here, its NEVER anything or ANYONE. its me.not you…me. I cant tell you all how much it matters to me that some of you responded with kindness. I am so untrained with the rules and such of the posting I find it to be a relief to be able to post its just I read some of them and feel so inept. I am older and now I suppose I dont care much about myself anymore. thanks to all of you …truth be told….your kinder to me than IRT people freaka ann

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Please I wanted to say thanks to those who saw my post…. As someone who suffers from these problems dis. depression. anxiety I have problems feeling as if I fit in anywhere all my messed up sorry life. these past weeks have been awful, not to take away from those here who have alot more to contend with.

you get to have your own suffering, and we (of asd) will not compare yours to anyone else’s and find it unworthy of caring and sympathy. there is no objective most-to-least ranking of problems, because it is each person’s internal response that determines hir own hurt. yours deserves as much attention as anyone else’s, regardless of the external circumstances causing it. cause I sure dont want to. I am so sorry if I made the statement about not fitting in here, its NEVER anything or ANYONE. its me.not you…me.

i didn’t take it personally, probably most other people didn’t. we know that when we say the same thing, it’s a statement about our self and not the group. fwiw, lots of people have felt the same, even some who have been here for a long time. i think it comes and goes. I cant tell you all how much it matters to me that some of you responded with kindness. I am so untrained with the rules and such of the posting I find it to be a relief to be able to post its just I read some of them and feel so inept.

how come? I am older and now I suppose I dont care much about myself anymore.

thanks to all of you …truth be told….your kinder to me than IRT people freaka ann

tess v.

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