Activism Change

Guns on Boats

Question:

:         A man apparently shot and killed his roommate in San Francisco …  snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : God save America.  Literally. It’s interesting to note that such incidents ALWAYS make the news.They are really quite rare.  One question that must be ask that will probably never be answered is, Was the story true or did the shooter get pissed off at the shootee and after the act was done make up the story to cover his ass? I just wish the press would report all of the incidents where someone really does shoot an intruder who was intending him harm, add to that reports about all the times that a show of a firearm chases off an intruder and there probably wouldn’t be room in the paper for stories such as the above.  Too bad few such instances get reported (and of the latter, most don’t even get reported to the police, the person who chases off an intruder without firing a shot goes back to bed and forgets the whole thing). Keith :

We can only see or read very little about what actually happens in the real world.  I think most people do not experience the life depicted on TV or the newspapers. This is relevant because most of our perceptions of the world are formed from what those media are reporting.  I think the best article I know on the subject of guns in America came from Time magazine.  It was a copy cat article of one they did on the American soldiers that died in Vietnam in one week.  They put together pictures and bios for about 500 or soldiers killed in a week in the late sixties. They did the same thing a while ago on people killed with handguns in the U.S. in a week. The numbers were the same or more than soldiers killed in Vietnam at the height of the war.  I looked at many of the bios of people killed.  I could not see any homeowners killed by intruders, but there were a whole lot of people who killed themselves or someone they knew.   If we cared about the things that would likely cause us harm while cruising, probabilities should cause us to be concerned about poor seamanship, navigation, or failing to keep a good lookout.  I don’t see that a gun would help much in any of those situations. Hans Paabor Scarborough

Response:

: God save America.  Literally.  I think the best article I know on the subject of guns in America came from Time magazine.  It was a copy cat article of one they did on the American soldiers that died in Vietnam in one week.  They put together pictures and bios for about 500 or soldiers killed in a week in the late sixties. They did the same thing a while ago on people killed with handguns in the U.S. in a week. The numbers were the same or more than soldiers killed in Vietnam at the height of the war.

 If we cared about the things that would likely cause us harm while cruising, probabilities should cause us to be concerned about poor seamanship, navigation, or failing to keep a good lookout.  I don’t see that a gun would help much in any of those situations. Hans Paabor Scarborough

– AMEN ! Well said.  Think of it – More civilians killed in U.S.A. than in soldiers killed in Vietnam. Where are the civil disobedience marchers to stop the killing in America ? Another hazard to sailing – gear failure. If we spent more on good boat maintenance and less on guns and ammo, the safer the sport would be! May your message be the last on this subjecy !! Regards, Al Saunders http://www.globalserve.net/~cbeeson/alzarc.htm "No amount of planning can ever replace dumb luck, but;  then, no amount of dumb luck can ever replace planning."

Response:

In all this discussion I haven’t seen one word about the responsibility of gun ownership.  The problem isn’t guns, it’s irresponsible, untrained people owning firearms.  If you choose to own a gun, you must learn all about the gun you personally own, gun safety in genereal, and practice maintenance and marksmanship.  Responsible behavior will not only make gun ownership safer, but reduce the likelyhood of needing to use it. Having said all that, taking any firearm into many foriegn countries is not only illegal, but will probably cause you more trouble than it saves you. Jim Smith

Response:

In all this discussion I haven’t seen one word about the responsibility of gun ownership.  The problem isn’t guns, it’s irresponsible, untrained people owning firearms.  If you choose to own a gun, you must learn all about the gun you personally own, gun safety in genereal, and practice maintenance and marksmanship.  Responsible behavior will not only make gun ownership safer, but reduce the likelyhood of needing to use it.

Well said, further more to cruise in some areas’s without a firearm might well be considered irresponsible. Having said all that, taking any firearm into many foriegn countries is not only illegal, but will probably cause you more trouble than it saves you.

Most countries will require you to declare any firearms on entry. Some will come on board to remove the firearm for quarantine during your stay others will allow firearms to remain on board provided they are properly stored. Jake – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Smith

Response:

Well said, further more to cruise in some areas’s without a firearm might well be considered irresponsible.

Where would those areas be? I have never met an actual cruiser who felt that way about the area they had cruised, so I am curious.

Response:

says… Well said, further more to cruise in some areas’s without a firearm might well be considered irresponsible. Where would those areas be? I have never met an actual cruiser who felt that way about the area they had cruised, so I am curious.

Some areas in the Bahamas, for example. Even some areas in the keys, at least from my experience.

Response:

Hello,  Living here in the Keys, I can attest that there are still pirates in the area, even if they don’t fly the jolly roger. I’d like to hear your experience that caused you to feel the need to be armed.  Thanks, Happy holidays. Charlie M  http://members.gnn.com/cdmccarthy/stand.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Perkins) writes: says… Well said, further more to cruise in some areas’s without a firearm might well be considered irresponsible. Where would those areas be? I have never met an actual cruiser who felt that way about the area they had cruised, so I am curious. Some areas in the Bahamas, for example. Even some areas in the keys, at least from my experience.

Now hold on just one gol’ darned minute! I’ve been living here in the Keys for three years and can’t recall ONE homicide involving a firearm in that time.  Come to think of it, I can’t recall a homicide, period.  They just arrested a fellow for a double homicide that occurred four or five years ago — his DNA matched samples from the crime scene (he was a so-so suspect for a long time, evidently, and when he attempted suicide in jail a few weeks ago — unrelated charge – the sheriff’s officers had a bloody towel analyzed).  THAT murder was so shocking that there was a whole billboard devoted to a picture of the murdered couple, asking for leads, when I moved here more than a year after the crime. So, why exactly do you think you need a firearm to feel safe cruising in the Keys?  Is it for the passage through the Miami area?  :-) Beth B. Voyagers Mail Forwarding Service Islamorada, Florida Keys

Response:

Most of the blood thirsty pirate SOB’s I’ve met were standing behind the cash register at a boat parts store not sailing the high seas.  Unfortunatly a firearm is of little use against them… HNC

Response:

Having been sailing to the Bahamas since 1968, I would be very interested to learn about those areas in these islands, where cruising without a weapon would be irresponsible, as I have yet to encounter them. says… Well said, further more to cruise in some areas’s without a firearm might well be considered irresponsible. Where would those areas be? I have never met an actual cruiser who felt that way about the area they had cruised, so I am curious. Some areas in the Bahamas, for example. Even some areas in the keys, at least from my experience.

– Sean F. Holland S/V Spindrift   NP2AU

Response:

There’s one good reason…make that 2….  8^)

<<THAT murder was so shocking that there was a whole billboard devoted to a picture of the murdered couple, asking for leads, when I moved here more than a year after the crime. So, why exactly do you think you need a firearm to feel safe cruising in the Keys?  Is it for the passage through the Miami area?  :-)

Response:

THEN YOU HAVE BEEN LUCKY. I don’t have your long eperience but I know of 2 robberies at gunpoint at Highbourne Cay in the Exumas, for example. In the Keys twice I have had the boat next to me raided by DEA and the people taken out in cuffs. Before these experiences I didn’t believe there was a place for guns on board either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Having been sailing to the Bahamas since 1968, I would be very interested to learn about those areas in these islands, where cruising without a weapon would be irresponsible, as I have yet to encounter them. says… Well said, further more to cruise in some areas’s without a firearm might well be considered irresponsible. Where would those areas be? I have never met an actual cruiser who felt that way about the area they had cruised, so I am curious. Some areas in the Bahamas, for example. Even some areas in the keys, at least from my experience. — Sean F. Holland S/V Spindrift   NP2AU

Response:

THEN YOU HAVE BEEN LUCKY. I don’t have your long eperience but I know of 2 robberies at gunpoint at Highbourne Cay in the Exumas, for example.

The robberies at Highbourne, were an illfated attempt by a couple of Bahamians from Nassau, who stole a small boat and made the run to Highbourne, with the idea to get rich by robbing the market.  Suffice to say, the stolen OB wouldn’t start, and the robbers were captured.  There was not any threat or attempt to board any cruising vessels, and had a cruiser attempte to shoot these guys, they might find that having that "gun" might get them a reservation at Fox Hill.  Merry Christmas. 73. — Sean F. Holland S/V Spindrift   NP2AU

Response:

<interesting cultural analysis snipped Any attempts to reduce the number of guns by our government just result in the innocent not having guns when criminals show up at their door with guns.  Two prime examples of this issue are New York City and Washington, DC.  Both of those communities have very strict gun control laws and strong governments.  In both of those communities the average, honest citizen does not own a gun but the criminals are all well armed.  In both of those communities the incidence of violence is far higher than the rest of the country, with Washington DC leading the country in violent crime with the strongest government influence in the country.  

<snip Ummm… it is worth noting that these two communities had sky-high violent crime rates *before* they had strict handgun laws.  You imply that these laws have increased the violent crime rates, but a wall of statisics and the legislative history of these laws indicate that you have the causality reversed; the laws are the effect of the high violent crime rates not the cause of the crime rates.  We could have an intelligent debate of whether these laws have reduced violent crime or had no effect (both are supportable positions depending on which statistics you compute)… but I know of no well collected data indicating that these laws have increased the rates of violent crime. As for the rationality of carrying a 3-inch gun into areas with little more than petty criminals… I suppose that is a stylistic statement. I have to wonder why you would want to visit a country in which you would only feel safe if you were packing more firepower than the average vessel from the local military/police.  Of course, one of those days when you are basking on shore under the tropical sun a petty criminal will walk off with your 3-inch gun… and now you have more than just "petty" criminals to deal with.

Response:

Until you have been alone, or with people you love and are confronted with a life threatening experience involving people who are going to kill you you do not know why it is so important to so many of us "American gun crazies" to have a gun.

Have you ever been in that situation??? A gun will save your life and your loved ones. You don’t have to use it if it is against your principles, but its kinda of nice to have the choice.

Rubbish…just having the gun on board (unused) could lead to all sorts of complications….. I was driving ‘overland’ with some friends from university (sure its not the same as yacht cruising but the concept is the same) – anyway we were driving accross IRAN towards Pakistan (late 1995) One night we were camping (and it was dark) and all of the sudden there was a very large amount of automatic gunfire all around us – this went on for 5 mins or so – shots just over our heads…scary! (actually our heads couldn’t get much lower!) Anyway, eventually 11 heavily armed guys came out of the dark and proceeded to hold guns at our throats. – we then stood hands above our heads for 1 hour (it was dark & very cold) getting shouted at etc…with the men shouting for dollars and whiskey and waving their guns in our faces..(the only farsi we could understand!) The demand for whiskey was a trap as they were v.religious and later they were very angry at finding an empty PEPSI bottle (it was too pro US – but we were mainly British). (Before we entered IRAN we were advised to dump all our books, cassettes etc as being too western – I guess the PEPSI bottle just slipped through – actually most of the stuff was concealed!) The point of all this is that with that kind of group in the world I could do without carrying a gun. We were eventually saved (?) by the local police who then proceeded to arrest us on spying & journalism charges – finally ending up being interviewed by the secret police! We were in enough trouble as it was and the last thing that we needed was for these guys to find a gun or ANY other offensive weapon… I’m not against choice but I wouldn’t suggest taking a gun out of your own country – and certainly never to any country that might have reason not to like the bad influences of Westerners. Its not just the locals who you have to be careful with, but the authorities too. alex ps sorry that this is about land rather than SEA travel! pps Iranians are very friendly people – so leave them out of the thread! Alex Bainbridge              Lively Learning Ltd – PC Educational Software

Response:

My mind is boggled by the juvenile thinking about guns on boats by those advocates of bearing arms.  Apparently this soley

Filed under: Civil disobedience

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