SPIRITUAL SOLUTION TO A POLITICAL PROBLEM:  RESIST NOT EVIL — BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT.                   By Raymond Karczewski      Has anybody noticed

that the Raymond Ronald Karczewski of today is even crazier than the Raymond Ronald Karczewski of last week?  The felon’s descent toward total dementia is accelerating. I can’t wait for next week to see how crazy the stupid motherfucker is. [ mindless raving snipped ]

Note to the ignorant sumbitch who says no one ever addresses Crazy Ray’s "message":  There are no "anonymous Satanic government/media sponsored/supported mind control/disinformation agents" here. The senescent old fool’s "message" is hallucinatory. Go fuck yourself.

Response:

     In the eight years of my writing on the Internet, I have NEVER told another how they should live.  I have merely mirrored to them HOW THEY DO LIVE. HELL, ISN’T IT?  

"rk:   You and millions of others feel that to speak only the truth in this world of hypocrisy is an impossibility. Well it is! Now live the rest of your life in that impossible realm and you will have answered your own question." "Now LIVE your Truth. NEVER TELL ANOTHER LIE or place yourself in a position where you FEEL that you need to lie" "rk:     From this moment onward in your life, NEVER tell another lie, cheat, steal, or harm/exploit another. Live Holistically. Be Responsible. Then SCREW THE RULES!" "Now live the impossible!" What does this show about Ray?

Response:

SPIRITUAL SOLUTION TO A POLITICAL PROBLEM:  RESIST NOT EVIL — BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT.                   By Raymond Karczewski      Has anybody noticed the dribby-drab, dying momentum of the anonymous Satanic government/media sponsored/supported mind control/disinformation agents who, after 8 years of boastful, vicious, guttersniping and unrelenting attack upon this simple man of Truth, this Christ, has succeeded in collectively becoming merely a wimper away from total dissolution?      Think not?  Check out the recent posts in Google Archives. Follow the toothless yappings of a cowardly, scattering, retreating, and "cover-their-ass" pack-o-jackals who must now refocus their attention upon others in a misdirection measure away from their inarguable failure in attacking a Christ, TRUTH itself.        Exposed in their use of anonymous internet handles, these cowardly shadow-slinkers have resorted to using equally phony, unproven, "proper sounding" names. Nothing has changed in their government/media "dirty tricks" manual.      However, this "In Satan We Trust" philosophy that conditioned satanic minions/blind believers, cannot/do not/will not easily change or challenge has been severely shaken by this 8 year long demonstration of a Satanic Exorcism.      As such, these disinfo agents have been reduced to mechanically repeating, repeating, repeating, their preprogrammed phrases and ad hominem attacks in order to sell their propagandized "BIG LIE."  NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, have they addressed the simple, inarguable message conveyed by this messenger of Truth.        As a simple man of truth, a Christ, the clear and present threat my words pose to these Mind Controllers and their employers, the Satanic elitists which rule the world of Civilized man, does not depend on group activism via worldly organization, but upon personal integrity, personal action, the Holistic essence of nonduality, of TRUTH, of ONENESS of word and deed, a dimension of consciousness presently foreign to the SATANIC Intellect.      Be quiet.  Meditate.  Delve deeply within.  In silence, penetrate the depths of your personal consciousness beyond the chattering realm of your political/religious/socially conditioned beliefs.  Go to the root of Life itself, the realm beyond words, beyond images, where only vibration resonates. There one discovers the pristine energy which permeates all Consciousness. Such holistic energy is TRUTH, LOVE, GOD.  It is the nondualistic essence which contains both the one and the many.      Do this and you will understand who you truly are, not whom you have been made to believe you are by political and religious mind controllers.      Regain your True Status as a Child of God, a Child of Divine Intelligence.  Let go of the limitations of the self-doubting Satanic Intellect, the "petty god" which rules lives of mind-controlled, thought-worshipping, civilized men/women.      Dissolve the illusion of the many which you presently identify with.  Understand that if it is whole, complete, (holistic) it is Truth.  If is is dualistic in nature, it is Satanically Thought-Based, which accounts for this Hell on Earth since Man’s "Fall from Grace" into the Satanic Abyss of Intellectualism.        Negate all energy which separates, fragments, divides and opposes — "Neti Neti, Not This, Not That," then observe what is left.  In other words, change yourself, free yourself from the beliefs which bind you.  Dissolve  the concepts which require your identification with the illusion of multiplicity, and the world of illusion dissolves, INSTANTLY.      Simply stated, CHANGE YOURSELF, and the World will follow.      Impossible, you say?  I Say DO IT.  You will see the Truth for yourself.      Many demand a detailed "How To" blueprint to guarantee them a successful result before they would even consider to begin a National Boycott, Boycott, Boycott upon a government which no longer follows the Constitution and has betrayed OUR birthright of life, liberty, and pursuit of property granted WE, the Sovereign People, by God (however you envision such Supreme Intelligence to be).      In the eight years of my writing on the Internet, I have NEVER told another how they should live.  I have merely mirrored to them HOW THEY DO LIVE. HELL, ISN’T IT?        That alone has shocked damn near everyone into a state of SILENCE except for those spiritually bereft government/media sponsored/supported ignoramuses who, unable to argue the message were left only with mass anonymous attacks upon the messenger and the messenger’s family.     These past eight years on the Internet (which may be accessed through the Google Archives) give testimony to the Truth contained in my writings.  I stand by it ALL. (However, keep in mind there are many FORGERIES under my name floating around.)     My words are my actions. I am whole in body, mind, and spirit. The secret to Spiritual Liberation is found on my web site page http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm     One must examine the trials and tribulations a simple Man/Woman of Truth must undergo to put TRUTH to the test.     I have personally BOYCOTTED, BOYCOTTED, BOYCOTTED government and SATANIC Man’s Law. I have stood alone.  I have held to GOD’S LAW, TRUTH.  Such simple understanding has set me free from the prisons which SATANIC MEN build. Man’s Law was put to the test by GOD’S LAW, TRUTH, and IT was found wanting.  I am a FREE MAN today, while others of the Patriot Community and beyond, who have approximated my path, are now languishing in JAIL.  The difference is merely a matter of TRUTH rather than the pretense of truth.     I am a Son of God, a simple man of Truth, A Christ, a SOVEREIGN.  I understand who I am.  Others caught in the maelstrom of worldly pretense were taught the lesson that by playing the Satanic game of legalese, they were but putty in the hands of the black-robed pharisee/pretender Satanic Judiciary of our time.     That is the story of One Man who stood firmly and unequivocally against all that HELL could muster and use against him in this Society we call the united states of America.       If one man could successfully BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT the Satanic Government in such fashion, what effect would 350+ million such SOVEREIGN PEOPLE have against the illusory power of Satanic Control.     Sorry, No response to the above question is necessary, for it is a NO-BRAINER!!     Each of you reading this will create your own destiny by your own actions.  You will get what you deserve.  NO MORE, NO LESS.       Raymond Ronald Karczewski

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suggested that our so-called sanity may not be all that it is thought to be. I further suggetsed that there may be numerous hints in a variety of fields, including the arts and science, that our normal state of consciousness is one of insanity. Instead of considering the possibility, or maybe just asking for the references, you, as well as another poster refer to RK’s actions which are labeled as insane, erratic, non-sensical or something like that. Is responding in such a way sane? I don’t think so, because what I suggested has nothing to do with RK’s actions. You are making assumptions based upon very little data. Ray has been spamming his crap for years.  On top of that he does it in a very condescending and belittling way.  If he really has a point to get across he could do so in a more civil manner.  But you just wanted to stand up for someone you thought was being picked on. Hah! As if Ray would need anybody to stand up for him! LOL. Any attempt to do that will probably just incur his wrath. I know that Ray has been at it for years and that his style of writing is not everyone cup of tea. However, what I am pointing out has nothing to do with his style of conversation nor his actions. It is about the topic in the subject line, and thus it is rather difficult to miss, unless one has another agenda or prejudices. Ray has gone to jail twice in the last year and thinks blah, blah Ray is not sane. This may well be, but the question here is are you and I, and most other people sane?

I am very sane compared to bRay.  I didn’t go to jail over refusing to pay a traffic fine. Making that assumption again, is the only question we should ask ourselves not just one of effectiveness? Considering that we are insane, is the way a "more sane" person choses to get this fact across, and propose methods of healing, effective? You make a lot of assumptions about someone you don’t know. This is not about someone, but is a general comment about a suggested method of evaluation regarding our effectiveness of interaction with other people.

I thought you claimed to know Ray.  It’s always about him. Every post of his contains his laments about how oppressed he is. Ray does things over and over again, the same behaviors, expecting a different result.  THAT is a great definition of insanity. That is what most people do, which would mean that most of humanity is insane. Wasn’t that what I suggested a few posts back? Then again, your simple rule would for example "invalidate" ritual, the same behaviour, expecting a different result from what is now, a change. Worst of all, for you, it works too.

My only concern is my own sanity. You have no idea what results I expect. — Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD;    "Disgruntled, But Unarmed" Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT

[snip] OPPOSING DUALISTIC THOUGHT

What an oxy-moron.

Response:

BOYCOTTING Government is Like Driving a Stake into the Heart of the SATANIC New World Order!!

rk:   The Poll below should open the eyes of even the most recalcitrant blind believer amongst us. rk:   The solution to our problems do not lie in either the political or the religious venue. rk:   The solution lies within the spiritual core of our very being.  It is at that core wherein technical knowledge (SATANIC OPPOSING DUALISTIC THOUGHT)WALKS, while understanding (CLARITY, NONDUALISTIC, DIRECT PERCEPTION) TALKS. rk:   Look at the very core issues presented.  If that does not exemplify the INSANITY of civlized life on earth, NOTHING DOES. rk:   You folks are barking up the wrong tree.  You’re on a BASSACKWARD journey to OBLIVION, fighting and opposing each other EVERY step of the way.  SATANIC, ISN’T IT? rk:   You folks, haven’t GOT A CLUE, as to how you are manipulated through such divisive thought; yet you are so prideful in going about expressing such limited and impotent solutions. rk:   In the realm of SATAN, the OPPOSER (dualistic warrying intellects), you forsake your oneness with all, you fall from GRACE and tumble into the spiraling HELL you create for yourselves through such divisive momentums.   rk:   The simple TRUTH is that you can’t change anyone but YOURSELVES. rk:   Understand the enemy WITHIN, and you will understand the projection of the enemy WITHOUT. rk:   Why piddidle away your energy by telling others HOW THEY SHOULD LIVE? rk:   Understand the SATANIC demons which rule YOUR Intellect. Such understanding will SET YOU FREE. rk:   A free man does not argue with a slave. rk:   An Intelligent man does not argue with an ignoramus. rk:   The Intelligent man, the man of Truth, of Non-dualistic essence, a CHRIST stands as a mirror reflecting the INSANITY of masses of ignoramuses employing SATANIC INTELLECTUAL thought designed for TECHNICAL PROBLEM SOLVING to solve the NON-TECHNICAL problems of life. rk:   Change yourselves, and the world will change with you. rk:   Remain in the present mode and civilized man shall destroy himself, excusing, justifying and rationalizing it every step of the way. rk:   After all, what WAR has not been fought on this earth wherein the opposing combatant forces have not asserted that GOD WAS ON THEIR SIDE?!   rk:   Satanic, isn’t it?  Yet ignoramuses continue to destroy themselves and the future of their children while taking such pride in their SATANIC HANDIWORK. rk:   No, my spiritually BLIND brothers and sisters, the key to changing what lies outside is the understanding which leads to change on the inside of the human being hypnotically conditioned through SATANIC mind control.  (in simpler terms, leadership imposed politically and religiously correct thinking). rk:   Your focus lies on the superficial because you have been trained by your leadership to live life at the superficial level of thought.  You revel in concepts, yet you lack deeper insight. As such, you exhaust yourselves, much like a dog running in circles chasing his tail.   rk:   RESIST NOT EVIL.  BOYCOTT IT.  Remove your support from such SATANIC intellectually based programs and spiritual liberation is at hand for those who see the simple Truth. Otherwise you are cursed to continue with playing patta-cake with one another, deluding yourselves into thinking, that such busy-work, go-nowhere activism EVEN HAS a SNOWBALL’S CHANCE IN HELL OF CHANGING YOUR PLIGHT IN LIFE. rk:   Read my articles on the NEW WORLD ORDER and BOYCOTT  See: http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm rk:   If you can’t do it HERE and NOW , you can’t ever do it anywhere!!           Raymond Ronald Karczewski

Are David Duke and Christine Greenwood guilty? Before reaching a conclusion, it is necessary to look at both sides of the issue.  It is true that the following commentary source is very biased and perhaps evil, but raises many questions that are worthy of answers. When I heard of these cases, I prematurely believed that they were involved in criminal activity.   However this is what the media claims and does not go into great detail of their situations.  Could this be part of a smear campaign and the charges were the result of plea-bargaining to avoid even more serious charges?  Perhaps they had no choice or they are indeed guilty. You might as well read or listen to the below program.  Then feel free to do your own research. http://www.natall.com/pub/010403.txt http://www.natvan.com/internet-radio/ts/010403.ram Persecution and Renewal: Christine Greenwood and David Dukeby Kevin Alfred Strom American Dissident Voices Broadcast of January 4, 2003 Welcome to American Dissident Voices. I’m Kevin Alfred Strom. It’s the beginning of the new year, 2003. After the passage of thewinter solstice, which literally means the Sun’s standing still, ourancient ancestors would celebrate the return of the Unconquerable Sun,called Sol Invictus in Latin. The days got longer, and, even though muchof Winter still lay ahead, the increasing hours of sunlight promised andforeshadowed the Spring to come and the renewal of Life. So this time istraditionally a time of hope. And I believe that, on the whole, my broadcasts recently have beenharbingers of hope for our European race. I’ve brought a number ofimportant problems and dangers to your attention, but on the whole I dofeel hopeful. I do believe that we are moving forward in our great taskof building a permanent White community. But there are people who are in despair this New Year. There are goodWhite people whose lives have been shattered because of the persecutionthey have received at the hands of corrupt politicians and the Jewishestablishment. There are White men and women imprisoned and taken awayfrom their families and loved ones because they have dared to say "no"to the genocide and extinction of their people. There are so many ofthese people that even listing their names would take a substantialportion of my broadcast time, and I am sorry that I can’t give everysuch case the attention it deserves. If the National Alliance controlledthe broadcast media in the West, instead of the Jews, you’d hear aboutthese cases day and night until the pressure on the establishment wouldbe so great that they’d be forced to see that justice was done, andWhite patriots imprisoned for political "crimes" would be released. Today I am just going to mention two of these victims, whose names havebeen in the news recently. Christine Greenwood is a young White woman, 28 years old, who operated asmall charity out of her apartment in Anaheim, California, called theAryan Baby Drive. Linking up via email and postal mail with otherconcerned Whites, some of them National Alliance members, sheunselfishly acted as a clearinghouse for used baby clothes, toys, andchildren’s books, which were distributed free of charge to poor Whitefamilies. She was friends with a few other racial activists who had hadsome minor brushes with the law. During one of those brushes with thelaw, police searched Miss Greenwood’s home, which she was sharing withher boyfriend, another activist who was the subject of theinvestigation. The search took place almost three years ago, and noaction was taken until a few days ago: now a can of gasoline and a fewnails found at that time are being referred to as "bomb makingmaterials" and Miss Greenwood and two others are suddenly facing felonycharges of which they are obviously innocent. The prosecutor and hisspokesmen openly state that they are prosecuting this "case" in hopesthat it will have a "chilling effect" on pro-White activism and that theinvestigation was begun as a result of perfectly legal flierdistribution that local Jews found "anti-Semitic." West coast members ofthe National Alliance have organized a boycott of the main media voicecheering the prosecution of this young White woman, the Orange CountyRegister. Let me quote from the boycott letter, which has beendistributed widely in the area: Help the boycott of the OC Register which is underway. It’s easy. Pleasecall the following phone numbers and tell them that they mustimmediately pull all advertising from the OC Register or they will bepicketed. Why? Because their advertising pays for the OC Register. The OC Registerquotes criminal organizations like the ADL as sources. (The ADL givesawards to mobsters, stole police files in San Francisco, spies onAmerican citizens, petitioned the President to aid criminal financierMarc Rich.) The OC Register calls pro-White organizations "Hate Groups".The OC Register allowed Christine Greenwood to be arrested, and did notinform the public that it was in revenge for legally distributingpro-White flyers. We will not stand still while law abiding White patriots are arrestedfor their views, and slandered by the OC Register. Tell them to advertise in the OC Weekly, but not the Register. There are pickets planned. WE NEED YOUR HELP. It will only take a few minutes of your time. Beprofessional and non-threatening. Email them as well, but at least call.Make their phones ring off the hook. Do you hate media bias? Who do youthink is paying for it? The advertisers! What follows is a list of advertisers in the Orange County Register,which time does not permit me to read in full. But I will leave thecomplete list in the text version of this broadcast, so that those ofyou reading this online or in our magazine Free Speech will be able toparticipate in the boycott. If you’re listening to this broadcast on theradio, you can go to our Web sites www.natvan.com or www.natall.com forthe full text version, or you can write for the copy of Free Speechmagazine which contains this broadcast script. The following are thebusinesses who should be politely contacted and asked to reconsidertheir support of the anti-White and unjust policies of the Orange CountyRegister: Paul’s TV500 North Harbor BlvdLa Habra, CA 90631-4022714-529-2314 UCI Medical Center101 The City DriveOrange, CA 92868-3201877-824-3627 Fry’s Electronics3370 East la PalmaAnaheim, CA714 688 3000 Home Loan Center, Inc18191 Von Karman Ave Suite 300Irvine, CA 92612 Simpson Buick, Pontiac, GMC6600 ManchesterBuena Park, CA 90621-2927888-567-4388 Cerritos Dodge18827 Studebaker RoadCerritos, CA 90703-5332562-402-5335 Tar Bell Realtors Corporate Headquarters1403 N. Tustin AveSanta Ana, CA 92705800 827 2355 Hardin Honda1381 Auto Center DriveAnaheim, CA 92806-5612800-466-3222 Elmore Toyota15300 Beach BlvdWestminster, CA 92683-6202800-621-5999 Anaheim Chevrolet215 S. EuclidAnaheim, CA 92802-1013714-991-3100 Irvine Mazda11 Auto Center Dr.Irvine, CA 92618-2803949-583-9900 Daniel J. Phillips Mazda24888 Alicia PkwyLaguna Hills, CA 92653-4621949-837-2400 Connell Chevrolet2828 Harbor BlvdCosta Mesa, CA 92844-2800800-259-9825 Theodore Robins Ford2060 Harbor BlvdCosta Mesa, CA 92627-2673888-225-4907 Tustin Mazda5 Auto Center DriveTustin, CA 92782-8402866-391-2222 Tall Mouse Arts and Crafts714-996-0101 Tilly’s Corporate Office2502 Barranca PkwyIrvine, CA That’s not the end of the list, but let me break in to say that thisboycott of the Orange County Register is your opportunity to make adifference for justice. The next four advertisers are major nationalfirms, so even listeners who are not in California have a legitimatecomplaint with them for their support of the Register and its lies aboutChristine Greenwood. The national advertisers which I want every singleone of you who hears my voice to call or write are as follows: Big 5 Corporation (a major sporting goods firm)2525 East El Segundo BlvdEl Segundo, CA 90245310-536-0611www.big5sportinggoods.com Kragen Auto Cingular Wireless866-246-4853www.cingular.com Macy’sP.O. Box 8215Mason, OH 45040800-289-6229www.macys.com Let’s not let this opportunity pass us by. Let’s make Macy’s telephone,and Cingular Wireless’s telephone, and Partsamerica’s telephone, and Big5 Sporting Goods’ telephone ring off the hook. Let’s stop paying for ourown dispossession. Also in the news recently is long-time pro-White activist David Duke.Mr. Duke was targeted for political elimination — and who knows whatelse — by a highly-placed Jew in the Bush administration, MichaelChertoff. Chertoff’s title is "Assistant Attorney General in charge ofthe Criminal Division," but his real function is the same as a KGBCommissar: destroy anyone who threatens the power of the Jews. Chertoff is an accomplice of Eli M. Rosenbaum of the notorious "Officeof Special Investigations" whose purpose it is to destroy the lives ofelderly immigrants whose only crime is that they served some minorfunction on the side of Europe during World War II. Chertoff, accordingto Time magazine of April 1, 2002, "can usually be found at AttorneyGeneral John Ashcroft’s elbow" and is the Justice Department’s "topcounterterrorism tactician." The Washington Post quoted "insiders" lastmonth who opined that Bush might name Chertoff to the U.S. Court ofAppeals. Chertoff recently went on a hush-hush jaunt to Europeancapitals in an effort to convince those countries to allow U.S.prosecutors to set up shop within their borders to "expedite" thekidnapping and extradition to the U.S. of alleged terrorists who, justcoincidentally I’m sure, also happen to be Israel’s enemies or critics.Chertoff is the man behind the administration’s move to suspend theconstitution and strip all legal and constitutional rights from anyonedeclared to be a "enemy combatant," even if such a person is an Americancitizen. It was Chertoff who prevented the Federal … read more »

Response:

Are David Duke and Christine Greenwood guilty?

Yes. Next case please.

Response:

Proof please, or shut your mouse-trap. Brian

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are David Duke and Christine Greenwood guilty? Yes. Next case please.

Response:

For two or more weeks I could not open the news group rec.guns. When I attempted to open it, Netscape closed. I assumed that I had a software problems. I worked on that tact until I found that my old dial up ISP’s news server opened it without a problem. Then I called my cable that the news group had been dropped for lack of interest. Since I’d correctness was at play. I have emailed the home office at newsatcorp.home.net to ask them to reinstate that news group. If their decision represents an attack in the culture wars, then we might ask that others first email and then boycott their television and Internet service as well as owning stock in their company. The NRA might consider starting it’s own mutual fund company that allows the member-investor to avoid owning stocks in companies that use the corporate decisions to make social policy. Bill Kenner Nashville, TN Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

For two or more weeks I could not open the news group rec.guns. When I attempted to open it, Netscape closed. I assumed that I had a software problems. I worked on that tact until I found that my old dial up ISP’s news server opened it without a problem. Then I called my cable that the news group had been dropped for lack of interest. Since I’d correctness was at play.

  You’re very probably right.  Newsgroups in the rec.* heirarchy aren’t usually dropped.  They might be expired more quickly, but rarely dropped. The alt.* category, though, that’s a different matter…. steve Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

Bill Kenner Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For two or more weeks I could not open the news group rec.guns. When I attempted to open it, Netscape closed. I assumed that I had a software problems. I worked on that tact until I found that my old dial up ISP’s news server opened it without a problem. Then I called my cable that the news group had been dropped for lack of interest. Since I’d correctness was at play. I have emailed the home office at newsatcorp.home.net to ask them to reinstate that news group. If their decision represents an attack in the culture wars, then we might ask that others first email and then boycott their television and Internet service as well as owning stock in their company. The NRA might consider starting it’s own mutual fund company that allows the member-investor to avoid owning stocks in companies that use the corporate decisions to make social policy. Bill Kenner Nashville, TN

Great post Bill! I think that it is becoming common to portray hunters and gun owners in the wrong fashion. Probably some PETA nut got a job with the home office and made some "executive level" decision to pull the plug on that ng. I am thinking more seriously about activism to see that hunters, etc. are being given a fair shake……. Joel A. Petrimoulx Michigan Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

<-snip- The NRA might consider starting it’s own mutual fund company that allows the member-investor to avoid owning stocks in companies that use the corporate decisions to make social policy. Bill Kenner Nashville, TN

—- Actually, this sounds like a great idea and something I would be very interested in. I’m not sure the NRA is the best or only institution suited to offer a mutual fund but, if they did I would still go for it. I expect there is an already existing list of companies sympathetic/unsympathetic to firearms rights. Does anyone know where such a list could be found? Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

Oh, come on PV "Kraft Durch Freude" Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Go for it. We use many ISPs, not just that one. Besides, from the (dis) information you posted, I can deduce that you don’t know what you’re talking about. At least not as well as you claim. Dana is an idiot and hated by more people in this NG than anyone. Just check out the "alt.activism.children loves daedra" thread and others I’ve recently posted to see that Dana’s opinion of me is not representative of the NG. My web host isn’t going to yank the hosting. Stop the Hate has already tried to get him to, and so have many others; but he will not kick us off. We have too many supporters, and, besides, he believes in free speech. — http://www.rthawk.com/carcassofgod — If ever there could be a noble one, one noble as a frontline soldier, it is she whose lust, and lust alone, sets us free. Daedra Before you buy.

Response:

Go for it. We use many ISPs, not just that one. Besides, from the (dis) information you posted, I can deduce that you don’t know what you’re talking about. At least not as well as you claim. Dana is an idiot and hated by more people in this NG than anyone. Just check out the "alt.activism.children loves daedra" thread and others I’ve recently posted to see that Dana’s opinion of me is not representative of the NG. My web host isn’t going to yank the hosting. Stop the Hate has already tried to get him to, and so have many others; but he will not kick us off. We have too many supporters, and, besides, he believes in free speech. — http://www.rthawk.com/carcassofgod — If ever there could be a noble one, one noble as a frontline soldier, it is she whose lust, and lust alone, sets us free. Daedra Before you buy.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1

Go for it. We use many ISPs, not just that one. Besides, from the (dis) information you posted, I can deduce that you don’t know what you’re talking about. At least not as well as you claim. Dana is an idiot and hated by more people in this NG than anyone. Just check out the "alt.activism.children loves daedra" thread and others I’ve recently posted to see that Dana’s opinion of me is not representative of the NG. My web host isn’t going to yank the hosting. Stop the Hate has already tried to get him to, and so have many others; but he will not kick us off. We have too many supporters, and, besides, he believes in free speech.

I do to.  Maybe some checking into who he does business with is in order.  I would not think that any resectable business would want to be connected to you even by proxy. On the page it says. Due to the diverse nature of CGI/PERL programming, each application well be priced per project. We do offer or a flat rate of $65 an hour for CGI re-work or new projects. Let us help you fill in this missing gap and get you started today! Since they do that kind of work maybe a boycott of any and all who use his service is in order.  Might have to look at who they really are over there since the hawk thing most likely simply buys this off another big boy.  I will take your word on the hawk but Verio may not be so inclined. Verio, Inc. (NET-VRIO-198-063)    8005 South Chester Street    Englewood,, CO 80112    US    Netname: VRIO-198-063    Netblock: 198.63.0.0 – 198.66.255.255    Maintainer: VRIO    Coordinator:       303-792-9300 Fax- 303-792-3869    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    NS0.VERIO.NET  129.250.15.61    NS1.VERIO.NET  204.91.99.140    NS2.VERIO.NET  129.250.31.190    *Rwhois information on assignments from this block available    at rwhois.verio.net port 4321    Record last updated on 26-Jul-2000.    Database last updated on 20-Oct-2000 07:00:12 EDT. The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Network Information: Networks, ASN’s, and related POC’s. Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related Information and whois.nic.mil for NIPRNET Information. On your other page which is http://www.tbns.net/carcassofgod They use advertising to give you the free page.  Some of the advertisers I see right off the bat is http://www.orangepie.com/tbns/cobrand.asp http://www.theburgh.net/ http://www.cyberexpresspa.com/ lettting them know they have $$$ at risk because of your page may help them have a change of mind. — http://www.rthawk.com/carcassofgod — If ever there could be a noble one, one noble as a frontline soldier, it is she whose lust, and lust alone, sets us free. Daedra

Before you buy. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBOfCAqOPT3CiLFGeNEQLvAACg0CSATRde+ID0aDuOVxhY2Tb6DBcAoIKC Nz7GvOT8/GNAy5A1fK+R+aQ/ =H2rt —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

One way that I am luckier than some people is that my husband is

huge. Consider yourself a lucky woman.  I find large men very attractive.  Of course I think large women are attractive too!  :-) I am not sure I could generate his interest in this seat belt issue –

I am not sure he’d wear them any way (yes, he’s a bad boy!). Marianne, if he won’t wear them for his own safety, he might wear them for yours.  I have a relative who related a story to me that happened in her family.  Three people were riding in the front seat of a car, and the driver, a large woman, wasn’t wearing her belt.  There was an accident, and everyone ended up on the passenger side.  The person in the middle died in the impact.  Had the driver been wearing a belt, this might not have happened. We have a responsibility to wear seat belts, if not for our own safety, to make other passengers in our vehicles safer. I hadn’t ever really thought I was risking anyone’s life but mine when I didn’t wear a seat belt.  Hearing about this incident made me think of seat belts in a whole new light. Elizabeth Before you buy.

Response:

I also hope you’ll take a minute and write NHTSA an email and ask them to change the regulation so that everyone who fits in a particular vehicle can fasten the seat belt.

Just a little plug…I have a ‘97 Toyota Corolla and the seat belts in that car are quite adequate. I weigh ~260 lbs and I have room to spare with their belts, front and back seats. My in-laws have a Saturn. While the front belts fit me fine, the back seat ones are skimpy and I can’t use them. I think a lot depends on the individual car makers, but I agree that everyone deserves to have seat belt protection in an automobile. Regina [This space under construction] Y2K aerobic challenge:680 minutes done. 1320 to go!(10/12/99) "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."—Anonymous

Response:

As you are probably aware, there are laws in 49 states requiring seat belt use.  Unfortunately, the code of federal regulation only requires automobile manufacturers to provide seat belts that fit people up to 6 ft tall and 215 lbs. Elizabeth Fisher

One way that I am luckier than some people is that my husband is huge.  The truth is, I am on him about losing weight – he never says anything to me. It’s kind of funny –  no matter what I weigh, he weighs 100 pounds more than me. He is 6′3", 290ish, and seatbelts are not the only problem.  He travels quite a bit for work (he’s away right now) and he has a terrible time sitting in airplane seats.  They aren’t made for people his size at all!  I am not sure I could generate his interest in this seat belt issue – I am not sure he’d wear them any way (yes, he’s a bad boy!). Marianne

Response:

Hi all! This isn’t a topic directly related to dieting, but I think it’s an issue that some of you might be interested in.  Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post.  :-) As you are probably aware, there are laws in 49 states requiring seat belt use.  Unfortunately, the code of federal regulation only requires automobile manufacturers to provide seat belts that fit people up to 6 ft tall and 215 lbs. If you’re smaller than that, you may think this is an issue that doesn’t concern you, but it does.  Would anyone want to have an unbelted person come flying at them in an accident, regardless of their size? I’ve created a website (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us) with information about seat belts for larger people.  If you’re interested in doing some activism that might save someone’s life, or at the very least keep them from getting a ticket for not wearing their seat belt, please write the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us/nhtsa.html) and ask them to change this outdated regulation. Elizabeth Fisher "Seat belts should fit EVERY body!" http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us Before you buy.

Response:

anita-arielle, r u serious? only 215 lbs. that’s so insane. most guys i know who are 6′ or taller weigh more than 215 lbs, and they are not even overweight at all!! i would say setting that limit probably leaves out at least 10% of the population!

Yes, it’s true!  I hope you went and looked at the regulation so you saw it for yourself (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us).  I just couldn’t believe it the first time I saw it!  I also hope you’ll take a minute and write NHTSA an email and ask them to change the regulation so that everyone who fits in a particular vehicle can fasten the seat belt.  good job on the activism! =)

Thank you, thank you! Elizabeth Fisher "Honda, if you want to protect me in fender benders, how about providing me with seat belt extenders?" http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us Before you buy.

Response:

Hi all! This isn’t a topic directly related to dieting, but I think it’s an issue that some of you might be interested in.  Please forgive me for a slightly off-topic post.  :-) As you are probably aware, there are laws in 49 states requiring seat belt use.  Unfortunately, the code of federal regulation only requires automobile manufacturers to provide seat belts that fit people up to 6 ft tall and 215 lbs.

r u serious? only 215 lbs. that’s so insane. most guys i know who are 6′ or taller weigh more than 215 lbs, and they are not even overweight at all!! i would say setting that limit probably leaves out at least 10% of the population! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re smaller than that, you may think this is an issue that doesn’t concern you, but it does.  Would anyone want to have an unbelted person come flying at them in an accident, regardless of their size? I’ve created a website (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us) with information about seat belts for larger people.  If you’re interested in doing some activism that might save someone’s life, or at the very least keep them from getting a ticket for not wearing their seat belt, please write the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us/nhtsa.html) and ask them to change this outdated regulation. Elizabeth Fisher "Seat belts should fit EVERY body!" http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us Before you buy.

 good job on the activism! =) anita-arielle 30"/28.5"/27" size 10/6-7/5?

Response:

By all means, be as loud as you like.  But when you try to use force — i.e., the government — to *make* other people do what you want, you have crossed into another realm entirely. That is why I mentioned publicity and a boycott.  Both of those things are legitimate actions of change-seeking consumers.  But trying to use force —  to *make* someone change their products to be more to your liking — is not.

Melissa, I understand what you’re saying, and what you’re suggesting is exactly how I started my campaign back in January.  Despite media attention (newspaper, radio, television and magazine) and much contact from concerned consumers, Honda still says no.  (Details on some of the media coverage are on my website: http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us.) I am not the first person to complain to Honda about the problems larger people are having with their seat belts not fitting.  I know of others who just got tired of fighting Honda, or not getting any response from them.  It took them a great deal of time to respond to my first letter to them.  Do you know what they told me when I called and asked what the delay was?  EVERY time they said it was because their legal department was reviewing the letter they’d written me.  What kind of a company is it that defers to their LEGAL DEPARTMENT over a passenger safety issue, instead of their engineering department? And as far as a boycott goes, I imagine Honda wishes I would boycott their company.  It is my opinion that Honda does not want fat people driving their cars.  They went so far as to send me a certified letter before I purchases my Honda Odyssey that I waited three months to get. In the letter they encouraged me to back out of the purchase agreement, which they "generously" agreed not to hold me to.  They went so far as to offer to help me buy a Toyota Sienna, because Toyota does have seat belt extenders available.  Do you think those are the actions of a company who is going to be upset if I boycott them? There is a lot of information on my website that details and documents my experience with Honda.  For anyone who is interested in reading more, just go to http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us and click on the "Is Honda trying to drive fat people away?" link. Elizabeth Fisher "Honda, if you want to protect me in fender benders, how about providing me with seat belt extenders?" http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us Before you buy.

Response:

I am not the first person to complain to Honda about the problems larger people are having with their seat belts not fitting.  I know of others who just got tired of fighting Honda, or not getting any response from them.

Might I suggest then, that people not purchase their products? Ford and General Motors are committed to customer satisfaction, and design their vehicles for all sizes of people. — 173/154/140 by 1-1-2000/110 If you stop eating, you won’t lose weight, you’ll just die fat. Before you buy.

Response:

I understand what you’re saying, and what you’re suggesting is exactly how I started my campaign back in January.  Despite media attention (newspaper, radio, television and magazine) and much contact from concerned consumers, Honda still says no.

Well, that’s their decision.  It doesn’t mean it’s OK to try to force them to change.  Part of freedom is the fact that other people will make some decisions you don’t like.  (Details on some of the media coverage are on my website: http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us.)

Yeah, I glanced over your stuff.  It sounds like you’re getting some good publicity, which could well influence the thinking at Honda.  They went so far as to send me a certified letter before I purchases my Honda Odyssey that I waited three months to get. In the letter they encouraged me to back out of the purchase agreement, which they "generously" agreed not to hold me to.  They went so far as to offer to help me buy a Toyota Sienna, because Toyota does have seat belt extenders available.

I didn’t see any mention of that on your web site. It sounds like they bent over backwards to try to satisfy you. They not only offered to release you from your contract, but actually offered to help you purchase a competitor’s product? That’s not something you see every day. They probably have legal concerns about how much liability they’d assume if they made extenders.  If they start losing the supersized market to Toyota et al, they may well reconsider. That’s business. Manufacturers choose what they are going to make, and we can’t always get exactly what we want from every manufacturer. Personally, I’m annoyed by the fact that I can’t get Playtex bras in my size — I really liked their bras when I could wear them.  But I’m not going to try to get the government to force them to manufacture bras to fit me, because their product line is theirs to determine. Why do you want to drive a Honda so badly?  The Toyota offer sounds pretty good from here. — Melissa                 The Y2K Aerobic Challenge! 140/110/110             Grand total: 183 minutes Goal!                   This week:    45 minutes Before you buy.

Response:

I’ll be needing a new vehicle soon, and I’ll take your experience into account by avoiding Honda.  However, I won’t be trying to *force* them to change their products.  It’s their decision to make, even if you or I think it’s the wrong one. Oh boy, do I disagree with that!  As consumers, it is not only our right but our DUTY to be loud mouthed pains in the butt when we don’t feel corporations are doing the right thing!

By all means, be as loud as you like.  But when you try to use force — i.e., the government — to *make* other people do what you want, you have crossed into another realm entirely. That is why I mentioned publicity and a boycott.  Both of those things are legitimate actions of change-seeking consumers.  But trying to use force —  to *make* someone change their products to be more to your liking — is not. — Melissa                 The Y2K Aerobic Challenge! 140/110/110             Grand total: 183 minutes Goal!                   This week:    45 minutes Before you buy.

Response:

I weigh over 350 lbs and drive a Neon.  The seat belt almost fits, but not quite.  I had no trouble getting a seat belt extender from the dealership (the manufacturer provides them at no cost).  My mother was able to get an extender for her Buick Skylark this way also.  At my last job, one of the company cars was a Honda, and I could not believe that the only manufacturer that won’t provide an extender (or so I’ve been told) also has the skimpiest seatbelt, I have ever seen in a car.  I had no problems with the Geo Metro, the Ford Festiva, or the Ford Escort (although I was about 75 lbs thinner when I owned the Escort) Colleen.

Response:

I’ll be needing a new vehicle soon, and I’ll take your experience into account by avoiding Honda.  However, I won’t be trying to *force* them to change their products.  It’s their decision to make, even if you or I think it’s the wrong one. — Melissa                 The Y2K Aerobic Challenge!

Oh boy, do I disagree with that!  As consumers, it is not only our right but our DUTY to be loud mouthed pains in the butt when we don’t feel corporations are doing the right thing! Marianne

Response:

As you are probably aware, there are laws in 49 states requiring seat belt use.  Unfortunately, the code of federal regulation only requires automobile manufacturers to provide seat belts that fit people up to 6 ft tall and 215 lbs. [snip] I’ve created a website (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us) with information about seat belts for larger people.  If you’re interested in doing some activism that might save someone’s life, or at the very least keep them from getting a ticket for not wearing their seat belt, please write the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://members.aol.com/nobelts4us/nhtsa.html) and ask them to change this outdated regulation.

Why don’t you contact the car manufacturers directly?  Publicity, possibly with the threat of a boycott, would probably be at least as effective as trying to use force to *make* manufacturers produce cars the way you want. Sounds like Honda doesn’t have much interest in serving their customers’ needs and desires.  If I were you, I’d take my money elsewhere. For what it’s worth, Nissan has always done right by me. I’ll be needing a new vehicle soon, and I’ll take your experience into account by avoiding Honda.  However, I won’t be trying to *force* them to change their products.  It’s their decision to make, even if you or I think it’s the wrong one. — Melissa                 The Y2K Aerobic Challenge! 140/110/110             Grand total: 183 minutes Goal!                   This week:    45 minutes Before you buy.

Response:

Just a little plug…I have a ‘97 Toyota Corolla and the seat belts in that car are quite adequate. I weigh ~260 lbs and I have room to spare with their belts, front and back seats. My in-laws have a Saturn. While the front belts fit me fine, the back seat ones are skimpy and I can’t use them. I think a lot depends on the individual car makers, but I agree that everyone deserves to have seat belt protection in an automobile. Regina

since we’re adding plugs with the seatbelts…since hubby is a huge SAAB fan, i’ve been driving one for quite some time…never had a problem with the belt, even at 268–granted it was a little snug though. did you guys know that the belt is supposed to go across your hip area? bladder level?  i thought that was interesting–the belt also fits better this way. just my two cents. Julie

Response:

thank you for posting this info and interview….I went to the Blood Axis show in Portland and I was initially disturbed…but I dug deeper into my own reactions and forced myself to confront a few issues.  As an artist (painting, drawing) who works in extreme ideas and images, I have had to deal with constant misinterpretations of my work and for once I found myself on the other end of it after seeing Blood Axis. I thank Mr Moynihan for presenting me with the ammunition I needed to get off of my own moral high horse and practice what I preached…I look forward to future shows and works by him.  

Response:

I booked this show.  Here is a copy of the email I sent to the press last night in regards to this matter.  Many pathetic details are omitted.  Also included is a statement from M. Moynihan in response to his critics. -Terrorbat Here’s a story for you…. Tonight (mon. 10/5) was the night of the Blood Axis show I told you about a few weeks ago.  Blood Axis is a "dark Ambient" sort of band that I like alot, so I booked ‘em a show at the Paradise.  The front man of this band (Micheal Moynihan: author of Lords of Chaos etc.  See press release) has been known to flirt w/ "fascist" imagery, and has made some rather extreme statements in past interviews.  Fine with me…I appreciate a brutally un-sypathetic veiw towards humanity now and again.  I also appreciate an artist who flirts w/ dangerous ideas. Thats what rok-n-roll is s’posed to do, no? Apparently, some of Mr. Moynihan’s past statements have pissed a few     "Dudley Do-right" types off to the point that they’ve been running around harrasing any venue that has the gaul to book Blood Axis.  Here’s what happened: I woke up this afternoon to a phone call from a freind, who had just received a flyer which demonized M. Moynihan to the point where one would think him Hitler incarnate.  This flyer also called for a demomnstration at and boycott of the Paradise Lounge.  I then recieved a call from the P-dise, who had been getting threatening calls all day from these same angry socialist hippie thought police. A decision was made that the show would occur as planned..after all, this is a free country supposedly…right??  I guess not, because when I arrived at the club later (about 8:30 pm or so) the whole place was closed.  I guess a bunch of PC fascist demonstrators showed up w/ signs that read "no free speech for fascists!" (HA HA HA HA )…and the lilly-livered Paradise lounge backed down. I don’t agree with the personal veiwpoints of alot of the bands that I book.  Plenty of all-Latino death metal bands have sceamed "kill white people!" onstage at Lucifers Hammer.  If Louis Farrakan(sp?) had a decent Black Metal band, I would book that shit immediately.  This is "extreme music", after all.  I listen to the music of Blood Axis because I like it.  There is absolutely no racist or nazi content in the lyrics whatsoever! Anyway, this selfsame bunch of goody two-shoes enemys of free speech pulled a similar stunt up in Seattle.  A comprehensive story/ interveiw w/ Moynihan will be appearing in the Seattle Rocket this coming issue. Below is a recent statement from Mr. Moynihan in response to his critics. Who are the real fascists?  You decide. -Godslayer         I am happy to clarify and explain my comments and beliefs to anyone who is willing to behave intelligently. I will state a few things which address these issues: 1) Blood Axis is not a skinhead band. People like the Freedom Socialist Party who make such claims are deliberately lying, and in fact using lies for political purposes, which personally I find quite reprehensible. 2) I am not an "anti-semite" and to label me as such is deliberately creating a falsehood. But I am also not a humanitarian, and I will state outright I do not believe in any kind of elusive notion about a "sanctity of human life" and I would challenge anyone to prove to me that such a thing exists. I also do not believe in moral concepts of "good" and "evil" and thus am not particularly upset about episodes in history where large numbers of people died. I am not a Holocaust Revisionist, but I also do not really care about the Holocaust one way or the other. I don’t feel responsible for it, and while it may mean a lot (understandably) to some people, it has nothing to do with me. Until laws are passed that insist that everyone feel moral concern over any and all unpleasant events from history, I will continue to not care about it one way or another. I fail to see how this makes me "anti-semitic," but maybe I just need to enroll in some special sensitivity training. 3) While the protesters and activists believe me to be a "fascist" or "neo-Nazi," I do not think these terms are particularly meaningful in the first place, nor do they reflect MY views. One flyer from the activists states: "New words, Old ways, Mr Moynihan. Misanthropy does not mask racism." I don’t consider myself a misanthrope either, so they are wrong on that account too. One this same flyer they even reprint a quote where I clearly state that I do not think the terms "fascist," "National Socialist (Nazi)," reflect my views, yet they claim I am only saying this to hide my real agenda. Obviously it is impossible for people with the mentality of these activists to understand anything which is not easily categorized with kneejerk labels. Instead of talking to me and finding out whether my views are one and the same with "fascism" or "Nazism," (and they are certainly NOT) the myopic protesters are happy to assume they are, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. There is a word in the english language for such behavior, and it is usually ascribed to people like Nazis. It is: prejudice. Not only are the activists willing to slap kneejerk labels on anyone who they feel represents a different set of opinions than their own, they’re willing to deliberately spread these inaccurate labels to others in the form of print propaganda, email, word-of-mouth, etc. This is a form of witchhunt behavior which could be aptly described as "reverse McCarthyism." 4) I am not a "white supremacist", and I clearly state this even in the "unacceptable" interviews from which the activists have culled their "evidence." 5) Contrary to the uninformed contentions of the activists, there is nothing "political" about a Blood Axis performance. As a rule the band doesn’t even speak during the pauses between songs. I would challenge anyone to find a single anti-semitic or racist line in any of our songs. It’s simply not there. If any of these numbskulls ever bothered to listen to one of our records, they could have figured this out. It is most profoundly ironic of all that the activists claim to be stamping out totalitarian ideas, yet they themselves should be congratulated for an incredible display of ignorant, uninformed, and intolerant behavior.  They’ll make perfect thought police in a future fascist state. And in summing up the whole affair, it is very profoundly ironic that if those who dislike what they think our views are would have simply IGNORED us and our show, then I imagine about 200 people might have showed up who wanted to see us. They would have watched the performance and gone home, end of story. Instead, because of the inane activism on the part of the protesters, we have received massive amounts of publicity which would have probably never otherwise gotten, been paid a large cancellation fee on the show, and will come back in January and play the concert which should have taken place on Tuesday. In my personal opinion, the only thing the activists have really demonstrated is the incredible high quotient of foolishness. Signed, Michael Moynihan 9/30/98 LUCIFERS HAMMER "All Metal, All the Time" Every Tuesday night, 9 pm, 911 Folsom st. SF **21 and over**

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lets start with the statement the this president made when he first got elected for his first term…  "this is going to be the most ethical presidency in the history of this country"   …..what a joke! Can you provide any -EVIDENCE- that it has not been the most ethical administration? Republican SORE LOSER wild accusations don’t count without evidence. let’s see if you can come u pwith any actual evidence. This has been the most scandel ridden presidency in the history of this country. We are in a bad state of affairs when this is the best we can do… Quick, see if you can name a "scandal" that is backed up by any evidence? — Woof – so I don’t get any more SPAM!!! Well, lets see…..Ron Espy…indicted.

That’s 1   Hazel O’Leary…suspected of misusing funds for overseas trips.

Woof asked for evidence, not bullshit suspicions.       Webster Hubbel……in prison.

For crimes committed before joining Justice.    Ron Brown probably would have been indicted if he wasn’t killed in a plane crash.

You’re pulling that one out of your ass.   Misuse of FBI files of 900 individuals.

Like George Bush looked through Clinton’s passport files. George Bush is whatever you’re accusing  Clinton’s staff of. Selling this country down the drain to the Chinese by virtue of illegal compaign funds.

Neither the FBI or CIA have found any evidence of campaign contributions from the Chinese government. The Senate committee on yada yada concurred that there may have been Chinese contributions meant to influence Congressional campaigns.   Hillarys expertise in investments netting her $100,000 in a couple of days.

More speculation. Remember the request for evidence, dumb ass ?  Gov. George Bush sold stock in one of his companies days before it nearly bit the dust. He filed his SEC docs related to insider trading almost 18 months after the event. He got a free ride.  And a multitude of other crap that this president has been involved in.

Sore Loser moron !  Your list is the shortest one I’ve ever seen.

Response:

Look at all the newsgroups this post is crossposted to.  Just look at it for a moment.  Now wonder why the author feels the need to crosspost.  I tend to find that the more newsgroups an individual posts to, the less credible their argument.  This is not always the case, but there is a very strong correlation. The more wild the claim, the less likely people will accept said claim. Therefore, the individual must post to as many people as possible. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The ball’s in your court my friend.  We continue to hear all these accusations and alleged lying yet you provide not one bit of proof. Give me a reason TO be suspicious.  The country as a whole has done well in the first 5 years of the Clinton administration.  Is the best you can do in the way of criticism calling everything that comes out of the highest office in the land a lie? No the ball is in your court.  YOU have made all the allegations, now support them with some evidence.  As the saying goes, I cannot prove a negative.             Ford.  You’re arguing with yourself, pal.             Bad sign.  OTOH, it makes you a perfect             candidate for WH press secretary.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lets start with the statement the this president made when he first got elected for his first term…  "this is going to be the most ethical presidency in the history of this country"   …..what a joke! Can you provide any -EVIDENCE- that it has not been the most ethical administration? Republican SORE LOSER wild accusations don’t count without evidence. let’s see if you can come u pwith any actual evidence. This has been the most scandel ridden presidency in the history of this country. We are in a bad state of affairs when this is the best we can do… Quick, see if you can name a "scandal" that is backed up by any evidence? — Woof – so I don’t get any more SPAM!!!

Well, lets see…..Ron Espy…indicted.   Hazel O’Leary…suspected of misusing funds for overseas trips.       Webster Hubbel……in prison.     Ron Brown probably would have been indicted if he wasn’t killed in a plane crash.   Misuse of FBI files of 900 individuals.     Selling this country down the drain to the Chinese by virtue of illegal compaign funds.    Hillarys expertise in investments netting her $100,000 in a couple of days.     And a multitude of other crap that this president has been involved in.

Response:

Lets start with the statement the this president made when he first got elected for his first term…  "this is going to be the most ethical presidency in the history of this country"   …..what a joke!

Can you provide any -EVIDENCE- that it has not been the most ethical administration? Republican SORE LOSER wild accusations don’t count without evidence. let’s see if you can come u pwith any actual evidence. This has been the most scandel ridden presidency in the history of this country. We are in a bad state of affairs when this is the best we can do…

Quick, see if you can name a "scandal" that is backed up by any evidence? — Woof – so I don’t get any more SPAM!!!

Response:

ct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.org.covert,alt.politics.radical-le ft,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.repu blican,alt.radio.talk,alt.society.conservatism,misc.legal,us.legal,talk.pol itics.guns,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory Followup-To: alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.media,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.c urrent-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fa n.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.journalism,alt.politics.clinton, alt.politics.corr ect,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.org.covert,alt.politics.radical-l eft,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.rep ublican,alt.radio.talk,alt.society.conservatism,misc.legal,us.legal,talk.po litics.guns,talk.politics.misc ,talk.politics.theory Organization: Netcom On-Line Services Distribution:

: Who Runs The Whitehouse Assassination Squad? Now Dave, do you actually believe this? I’d like to think that you’re doing this to get a response from the gentle readers captivated by your mental musings. You could be serious, and that’s kinda’ scary. But there are doctors out there that can treat your kind of disorder. But I’m sure most people here in alt.journalism think the best – that you’re someone trying to get a converstaion and not a raving lunatic. Dave : Two recent events triggered this question. : The first event was the murder in Washington, DC of several workers at : a restaurant in Washington, DC. One of those murdered was an attractive : young woman who had previously worked at the Whitehouse. : The second event was the recent story that an unnamed women had : privately corroborated tales of sexual harrassment by President : Clinton. : The woman named by the Drudge report as having heen ‘fondled’by the : President has denied the story. It has been suggested that the actual : source of this rumor was in fact the woman found murdered at the : restaurant (shot 5 times in the head (a warning to other potential : canaries perhaps)). : It has been suggested that the story reported by Drudge is actually a : cover story for the accusations of the other (now dead) woman. : Johnny Trie said in a televised interview that he fled to China, among : other reasons, "to stay alive". Perhaps Mr. Trie has more knowledge : about the Whitehouse’s methods of dealing with witnesses than is good : for him. : Likely possibilities (in no particular order): : James Carville Buddy Young James Lee Witt Hillary Clinton : — : Dave Feustel          http://feustel.mixi.net —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: CRL Network Services Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: a108015.ccr1.as.crl.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Xref: alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu alt.current-events.usa:79542 alt.politics.media:42500 alt.activism:322766 alt.conspiracy:293153 alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater:112420 alt.fan.bob-dole:159 alt.fan.dan-quayle:122151 alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy:65793 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:644896 alt.journalism:84828 alt.politics.clinton:412595 alt.politics.correct:221537 alt.politics.democrats.d:223482 alt.politics.org.covert:4631 alt.politics.radical-left:187823 alt.politics.reform:159912 alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich:132274 The ball’s in your court my friend.  We continue to hear all these accusations and alleged lying yet you provide not one bit of proof. Give me a reason TO be suspicious.  The country as a whole has done well in the first 5 years of the Clinton administration.  Is the best you can do in the way of criticism calling everything that comes out of the highest office in the land a lie? No the ball is in your court.  YOU have made all the allegations, now support them with some evidence.  As the saying goes, I cannot prove a negative.             Ford.  You’re arguing with yourself, pal.             Bad sign.  OTOH, it makes you a perfect             candidate for WH press secretary. Lets start with the statement the this president made when he first got elected for his first term…  "this is going to be the most ethical presidency in the history of this country"   …..what a joke! This has been the most scandel ridden presidency in the history of this country. We are in a bad state of affairs when this is the best we can do…

The Mossad. *IMPORTANT: See postscript. Virtually every week we see another highly-publicized media story about "discrimination" which reports favoritism was allegedly being shown to Whites and that minorities were found to be "under-represented" in a company or field.   The media reports these stories constantly, thoroughly, and without fail, perpetually hammering us over the head with the importance of combatting White racism and the need to make things "representational" at any cost. Yet it has been conservatively estimated that Jews — a group which is only 2.5 to 5% of the population — are over-represented 2000% in Clinton’s appointments and administrative positions.  The media refuses to report on the overwhelming Jewish over-representation in the government. The following is a list (which doesn’t include lower staff levels) of Jews in the Clinton adminstration. Madeleine Albright      Secretary of State Robert Rubin            Secretary of Treasury William Cohen   Secretary of Defense Dan Glickman            Secretary of Agriculture George Tenet            CIA Chief Samuel Berger   Head National Security Council Evelyn Lieberman        Deputy Chief of Staff Stuart Eizenstat        Under Secy. of State Charlene Barshefsky     U.S. Trade Representative Susan Thomases  Aide to First Lady Joel Klein              Asst. Attorney General Gene Sperling           Nat’l Economic Council Ira Magaziner           National Health Care Peter Tarnoff           Deputy Secy. of State Alice Rivlin            Ecomomic Advisory Janet Yellen            Chairwoman, Nat’l Economic Council Rahm Emanuel    Policy Advisor Doug Sosnik             Counsel to President Jim Steinberg           Deputy to National Security Chief Jay Footlik             Special Liason to the Jewish Community                         (no other group has a special liason) Robert Nash             Personal Chief Jane Sherburne  President’s Lawyer Mark Penn               Asia Expert to NEC Sandy Kristoff          Health Care Chief Robert Boorstin Communications Aide Keith Boykin            Communications Aide Jeff Eller              Special Asst. to Clinton Tom Epstein             Health Care Adviser Judith Feder            Nat’l Security Council Richard Feinberg        Asst. Secy. Veterans Hershel Gober   Food and Drug Admin. Steve Kessler           White House Counsel Ron Klein               Asst. Secy. Education Madeleine Kunin Communications Aide David Kusnet            Dept. AIDS Program Margaret Hamburg        Dir. Press Conferences Many Grunwald   Liason to Jew Leaders Karen Adler             Dir. State Dept. Policy Samuel Lewis    Nat’l Security Council Stanley Ross            Nat’l Security Council Dan Schifter            Director Peace Corps. Eli Segal               Deputy Chief of Staff We don’t have to put up with this anti-White double standard and constant media lies and cover-up for the Jews.  The time to begin resisting is now.   For more information: http://www.natvan.com Brian Smith http://www.natall.com

ps. I would like to mention that both of Clinton’s appointments to the Supreme Court were Jews, and he appointed a Jew to head the Securities and Exchange Commission. This means that we have Jews in complete control of our monetary policy, and "Greenscam" can rob us with impunity.  We have Senator Roth head of the Senate Banking Committee, D’Amato — a stooge of the Jews — head of the House Banking Committee, and Jews that head both the SEC and the Federal Reserve.  We also have "Rob" Rubin and his terrorists (ATF) in charge of the Treasury Dept. Stop the International Zionist Conspiracy: boycott Jews until tariffs are reimposed, and our jobs are brought back to America.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The ball’s in your court my friend.  We continue to hear all these accusations and alleged lying yet you provide not one bit of proof. Give me a reason TO be suspicious.  The country as a whole has done well in the first 5 years of the Clinton administration.  Is the best you can do in the way of criticism calling everything that comes out of the highest office in the land a lie? No the ball is in your court.  YOU have made all the allegations, now support them with some evidence.  As the saying goes, I cannot prove a negative.            Ford.  You’re arguing with yourself, pal.            Bad sign.  OTOH, it makes you a perfect            candidate for WH press secretary.

YOU are the one making the allegations visa vie the Clinton Administration, all I want to see is some sort of verifiable proof on your part.  As I stated above, I cannot prove a negative.  Ante up. Ford

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The ball’s in your court my friend.  We continue to hear all these accusations and alleged lying yet you provide not one bit of proof. Give me a reason TO be suspicious.  The country as a whole has done well in the first 5 years of the Clinton administration.  Is the best you can do in the way of criticism calling everything that comes out of the highest office in the land a lie? No the ball is in your court.  YOU have made all the allegations, now support them with some evidence.  As the saying goes, I cannot prove a negative.             Ford.  You’re arguing with yourself, pal.             Bad sign.  OTOH, it makes you a perfect             candidate for WH press secretary.

Lets start with the statement the this president made when he first got elected for his first term…  "this is going to be the most ethical presidency in the history of this country"   …..what a joke! This has been the most scandel ridden presidency in the history of this country. We are in a bad state of affairs when this is the best we can do…

Response:

The ball’s in your court my friend.  We continue to hear all these accusations and alleged lying yet you provide not one bit of proof. Give me a reason TO be suspicious.  The country as a whole has done well in the first 5 years of the Clinton administration.  Is the best you can do in the way of criticism calling everything that comes out of the highest office in the land a lie? No the ball is in your court.  YOU have made all the allegations, now support them with some evidence.  As the saying goes, I cannot prove a negative.

            Ford.  You’re arguing with yourself, pal.             Bad sign.  OTOH, it makes you a perfect             candidate for WH press secretary.

Response:

I am a member of the Whitehouse assassination squad.  We are trying to cover up Roswell.  Take me to your leader. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do you conspiracy nuts tend to choose the most improbable scenario when trying to explain random events.  A Whitehouse hit squad?  Give us a break, or at less some real, irrefutable evidence.          Everything that comes out of the "highest          office" in the land is a lie.  The FIRST          thing out of the White House was that Willey          had NEVER been an employee.          Give us a break, or a reason to NOT be suspicious. The ball’s in your court my friend.  We continue to hear all these accusations and alleged lying yet you provide not one bit of proof. Give me a reason TO be suspicious.  The country as a whole has done well in the first 5 years of the Clinton administration.  Is the best you can do in the way of criticism calling everything that comes out of the highest office in the land a lie? No the ball is in your court.  YOU have made all the allegations, now support them with some evidence.  As the saying goes, I cannot prove a negative. F. Prefect When your pet bird sees you reading the newspaper, does he wonder why you’re just sitting there, staring at carpeting?

Response:

Who Runs The Whitehouse Assassination Squad? <snippit Likely possibilities (in no particular order): James Carville Buddy Young James Lee Witt Hillary Clinton

C’mon, be realistic. Fidel Castro directs the assasination squad under permission of Bill Clinton. Why do you think the murders resemble the sloppy work of the East German Stazi? — If you take me seriously, we’ve got to talk. |  1989 Ford Taurus GL                                    | |  Rockford Fosgate, /////Alpine, Kenwood, JBL, Dented    | |  Fender, Cracked Windshield, Defective Fuel Pump, No    | |  A/C, Busted Seat Support, Worn Shocks, Struts, Springs,| |  and I still owe $2500.                                 |

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Who Runs The Whitehouse Assassination Squad? Two recent events triggered this question. The first event was the murder in Washington, DC of several workers at a restaurant in Washington, DC. One of those murdered was an attractive young woman who had previously worked at the Whitehouse. The second event was the recent story that an unnamed women had privately corroborated tales of sexual harrassment by President Clinton. The woman named by the Drudge report as having heen ‘fondled’by the President has denied the story. It has been suggested that the actual source of this rumor was in fact the woman found murdered at the restaurant (shot 5 times in the head (a warning to other potential canaries perhaps)). It has been suggested that the story reported by Drudge is actually a cover story for the accusations of the other (now dead) woman. Johnny Trie said in a televised interview that he fled to China, among other reasons, "to stay alive". Perhaps Mr. Trie has more knowledge about the Whitehouse’s methods of dealing with witnesses than is good for him. Likely possibilities (in no particular order): James Carville Buddy Young James Lee Witt Hillary Clinton

Why do you conspiracy nuts tend to choose the most improbable scenario when trying to explain random events.  A Whitehouse hit squad?  Give us a break, or at less some real, irrefutable evidence. F. Prefect When your pet bird sees you reading the newspaper, does he wonder why you’re just sitting there, staring at carpeting?

Response:

Typical conspiracy conversation: Conspiracy nut:  Assasination squads work out of the Klinton white house. Joe:  Wow!  That sounds fascinating! CN:  Yeah, it sure is. Joe:  What kinda stuff do they do? CN:  They do bad things, but they are good at covering it up. Joe:  We should send those bastards to jail. CN:  No evidence exists to prove what they do.  They cover it up. Besides, the Janet Reno is in on the scam. Joe:  How can we be sure they exist then?  What can we do to stop them? CN:  They cover up what they do so well, nodoby will listen.  There is no evidence to show what they do. Joe:  So we cant prove they exist. CN:  Nope.  Like OJ Simpson, the cops did such a good job, it appears that he commited the crime.  There is too much evidence.  If there was less evidence, or false evidence, he would probably be guilty.  But there is too much evidence.  And they have done such a good job, you cant prove that they planted the evidence. Joe realizes that CN is a nut..  But CN is always fun at parties. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do you conspiracy nuts tend to choose the most improbable scenario when trying to explain random events.  A Whitehouse hit squad?  Give us a break, or at less some real, irrefutable evidence.          Everything that comes out of the "highest          office" in the land is a lie.  The FIRST          thing out of the White House was that Willey          had NEVER been an employee.          Give us a break, or a reason to NOT be suspicious. The ball’s in your court my friend.  We continue to hear all these accusations and alleged lying yet you provide not one bit of proof. Give me a reason TO be suspicious.  The country as a whole has done well in the first 5 years of the Clinton administration.  Is the best you can do in the way of criticism calling everything that comes out of the highest office in the land a lie? F. Prefect When your pet bird sees you reading the newspaper, does he wonder why you’re just sitting there, staring at carpeting?

Response:

Why do you conspiracy nuts tend to choose the most improbable scenario when trying to explain random events.  A Whitehouse hit squad?  Give us a break, or at less some real, irrefutable evidence.

          Everything that comes out of the "highest           office" in the land is a lie.  The FIRST           thing out of the White House was that Willey           had NEVER been an employee.           Give us a break, or a reason to NOT be suspicious. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – F. Prefect When your pet bird sees you reading the newspaper, does he wonder why you’re just sitting there, staring at carpeting?

Response:

Who Runs The Whitehouse Assassination Squad? Two recent events triggered this question. The first event was the murder in Washington, DC of several workers at a restaurant in Washington, DC. One of those murdered was an attractive young woman who had previously worked at the Whitehouse. The second event was the recent story that an unnamed women had privately corroborated tales of sexual harrassment by President Clinton. The woman named by the Drudge report as having heen ‘fondled’by the President has denied the story. It has been suggested that the actual source of this rumor was in fact the woman found murdered at the restaurant (shot 5 times in the head (a warning to other potential canaries perhaps)). It has been suggested that the story reported by Drudge is actually a cover story for the accusations of the other (now dead) woman. Johnny Trie said in a televised interview that he fled to China, among other reasons, "to stay alive". Perhaps Mr. Trie has more knowledge about the Whitehouse’s methods of dealing with witnesses than is good for him. Likely possibilities (in no particular order): James Carville Buddy Young James Lee Witt Hillary Clinton — Dave Feustel            http://feustel.mixi.net

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Who Runs The Whitehouse Assassination Squad? Two recent events triggered this question. The first event was the murder in Washington, DC of several workers at a restaurant in Washington, DC. One of those murdered was an attractive young woman who had previously worked at the Whitehouse. The second event was the recent story that an unnamed women had privately corroborated tales of sexual harrassment by President Clinton. The woman named by the Drudge report as having heen ‘fondled’by the President has denied the story. It has been suggested that the actual source of this rumor was in fact the woman found murdered at the restaurant (shot 5 times in the head (a warning to other potential canaries perhaps)). It has been suggested that the story reported by Drudge is actually a cover story for the accusations of the other (now dead) woman. Johnny Trie said in a televised interview that he fled to China, among other reasons, "to stay alive". Perhaps Mr. Trie has more knowledge about the Whitehouse’s methods of dealing with witnesses than is good for him. Likely possibilities (in no particular order): James Carville Buddy Young James Lee Witt Hillary Clinton — Dave Feustel                http://feustel.mixi.net

Russia 1918 all over again. Study the Jewish problem for a clear picture of what is wrong with this contintent. A good place to start can be found at http://www.natall.com |/ Erich Do right, and fear no one. To this day these two powers –Jew and Teutonic races– stand, wherever the recent spread of the Chaos has not blurred their features, now as friendly, now as hostile, but always as alien forces face to face.                                   Houston Stewart Chamberlain                                                        "1912" http://www.natvan.com http://www.natall.com

Response:

Recently, the activism directed against the record company involved with the production of a particular Aerosmith CD was successful.  The offenseive (to Hindus) picture on the CD insert was replaced.  A boycott of Nike by Hindus, Vegans, vegetarians and people concerned about the pain and suffering of animals — perhaps more than a third of the world population — should help matters.  -  Jai Maharaj

Hindus have been crafting fine leather goods for thousands of years. Nike is a latecomer to the game. If Mr. Maharaj wants the cessation of leather crafting, he should start with the Indian "mochi’s". Gimme a pair of Kolhapuri’s! Prem

Response:

Recently, the activism directed against the record company involved with the production of a particular Aerosmith CD was successful.  The offenseive (to Hindus) picture on the CD insert was replaced.  A boycott of Nike by Hindus, Vegans, vegetarians and people concerned about the pain and suffering of animals — perhaps more than a third of the world population — should help matters.  -  Jai Maharaj

      Jai Maharaj, 99.99%, if not more, of the hindus wear leather footwear. What in th world are you cmplaining about ? If Nike came up with a logo with RAM on the shoes, it would be highly offesive to hindus. I would definitely not wear them. Muslims objected to the logo with the word ALLAH in arabic. You don’t seem to be sensitive to that. – What is your stand on the ALLAH logo ? – What would be your stand with a logo of RAM on Nike shoes ? – Do you agree with the recall and apology ? – are you more concerned with animals than your fellow   human beings of different faith ?        Your fanatical rantlings are having a free ride on the internet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jai Maharaj http://www.flex.com/~jai Om Shanti Copyrights (C) 1997 Mantra Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Response:

Jai Maharaj,   Please tell us about the shoes you wear. What % of the time   you wear leather shoes ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently, the activism directed against the record company involved with the production of a particular Aerosmith CD was successful.  The offenseive (to Hindus) picture on the CD insert was replaced.  A boycott of Nike by Hindus, Vegans, vegetarians and people concerned about the pain and suffering of animals — perhaps more than a third of the world population — should help matters.  -  Jai Maharaj

Response:

Recently, the activism directed against the record company involved with the production of a particular Aerosmith CD was successful.  The offenseive (to Hindus) picture on the CD insert was replaced.  A boycott of Nike by Hindus, Vegans, vegetarians and people concerned about the pain and suffering of animals — perhaps more than a third of the world population — should help matters.  -  Jai Maharaj Jai Maharaj,  Please tell us about the shoes you wear. What % of the time  you wear leather shoes ?  -  cSingh

I do not wear footwear made of leather. Pure vegetarians and vegans attempt to *not* support cruelty to animals. Jai Maharaj http;//www.flex.com/~jai   <<*** 17,000-plus links to my posts here Om Shanti Copyright (C) 1997 Mantra Corporation – All Rights Reserved.

Response:

: A reuters ews report today tells of a recall of thousands : of shoes by their manufacturer, Nike.  The company has : given in to muslims who complained that a flame-like logo : on the shoe resembles "Allah" in Arabic. : : Fine.  But when will Nike and other shoe makers recall shoes : that are made of leather and are the consequence of immeasurable : pain, suffering and death of animals?  Ahinsaa, or nonviolence, : is the core Hindu principle. : :   "Do not injure the beings living on earth, in the : air and in the water."  -  Yajur Ved. : : What about prithvis,agnis,arjuns etc. Are they for Ahinsaa?  "Even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth,

: so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath, so : that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all : is Vanity.   – Ecclesiastes : When hindus will stop killing in Kashmir

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently, the activism directed against the record company involved with the production of a particular Aerosmith CD was successful.  The offenseive (to Hindus) picture on the CD insert was replaced.  A boycott of Nike by Hindus, Vegans, vegetarians and people concerned about the pain and suffering of animals — perhaps more than a third of the world population — should help matters.  -  Jai Maharaj       Jai Maharaj, 99.99%, if not more, of the hindus wear leather footwear. What in th world are you cmplaining about ? If Nike came up with a logo with RAM on the shoes, it would be highly offesive to hindus. I would definitely not wear them. Muslims objected to the logo with the word ALLAH in arabic. You don’t seem to be sensitive to that.

Doubtless, when the sub-continent is "reunified", Muslim objections will cease to matter. Prem P.S.: what do hawaii.nortle and rec.food.veg have to do with this topic??

Response:

Saw the logo on the TV, it looks almost like the way Allah    is written in Arabic.    Nike has done absolutly the right thing by recalling the shoes.    The logo is clearly offensive.    As a long time share holder of Nike, I believe they should be    in the business of selling shoes, and not hurting religious    sentiments of any people of faith. So I am glad the  matter was    resolved emicably.

Response:

 [...] Fine.  But when will Nike and other shoe makers recall shoes that are made of leather and are the consequence of immeasurable pain, suffering and death of animals?  Ahinsaa, or nonviolence, is the core Hindu principle.  -  Jai Maharaj Likely when the Hindus’s concern worry Nike about the possibility of a boycott and hurting their sales. Or am I being unduly pessimistic?  - Bruce and Gail Veale

Recently, the activism directed against the record company involved with the production of a particular Aerosmith CD was successful.  The offenseive (to Hindus) picture on the CD insert was replaced.  A boycott of Nike by Hindus, Vegans, vegetarians and people concerned about the pain and suffering of animals — perhaps more than a third of the world population — should help matters.  -  Jai Maharaj Jai Maharaj http://www.flex.com/~jai Om Shanti Copyrights (C) 1997 Mantra Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A reuters ews report today tells of a recall of thousands of shoes by their manufacturer, Nike.  The company has given in to muslims who complained that a flame-like logo on the shoe resembles "Allah" in Arabic. Fine.  But when will Nike and other shoe makers recall shoes that are made of leather and are the consequence of immeasurable pain, suffering and death of animals?  Ahinsaa, or nonviolence, is the core Hindu principle.   "Do not injure the beings living on earth, in the air and in the water."  -  Yajur Ved.  "Even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is Vanity.   – Ecclesiastes

When hindus will stop killing in Kashmir

Response:

A reuters ews report today tells of a recall of thousands of shoes by their manufacturer, Nike.  The company has given in to muslims who complained that a flame-like logo on the shoe resembles "Allah" in Arabic. Fine.  But when will Nike and other shoe makers recall shoes that are made of leather and are the consequence of immeasurable pain, suffering and death of animals?  Ahinsaa, or nonviolence, is the core Hindu principle.    "Do not injure the beings living on earth, in the air and in the water."  -  Yajur Ved.   "Even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is Vanity.   – Ecclesiastes Jai Maharaj Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer http://www.flex.com/~jai Om Shanti Copyright (C) 1997 Mantra Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Response: