BRAND NEW!! Swiftboat Vet's OWN Military Records Prove They're Lying

Question:

Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. The man in question is fucked up in the head.

I doubt it. "Kerry was erratic. He hardly ever did what he was supposed to do. His command decisions put is in more peril than he should have. But mostly he just ran. When John Kerry look out the bow of the boat and he saw tracer fire coming after him, he’d turn and run. that isn’t what he was supposed to do. His job was to face into the fire, to quarter the boat so we could apply our twin .50-caliber machine guns on the enemy. That was out job in the canal, to stand our ground and suppress the enemy fire. All Kerry wanted to do was turn and ‘get out of dodge’ at the first sign of trouble. When he should have been fighting, calling in air support, he was hightaling it. That’s always been my bone of contention with Kerry — his decision-making capabilities, that’s what takes him out of contention as far as I am concerned." [Steve Gardner, Kerry's .50 gunner, "Unfit For Command," pp 72-73]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. The man in question is fucked up in the head. I doubt it. "Kerry was erratic. He hardly ever did what he was supposed to do. His command decisions put is in more peril than he should have. But mostly he just ran. When John Kerry look out the bow of the boat and he saw tracer fire coming after him, he’d turn and run. that isn’t what he was supposed to do. His job was to face into the fire, to quarter the boat so we could apply our twin .50-caliber machine guns on the enemy. That was out job in the canal, to stand our ground and suppress the enemy fire. All Kerry wanted to do was turn and ‘get out of dodge’ at the first sign of trouble. When he should have been fighting, calling in air support, he was hightaling it. That’s always been my bone of contention with Kerry — his decision-making capabilities, that’s what takes him out of contention as far as I am concerned." [Steve Gardner, Kerry's .50 gunner, "Unfit For Command," pp 72-73]

The above excerpt from ‘Unfit For Command’ is contradicted by eyewitness William Rood. Read the following article for proof. peace brian –William Rood | I know Kerry critics’ story untrue Commentary: Here’s what I saw happen that disputed day in Vietnam WILLIAM B. ROOD Chicago Tribune There were three Swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago — three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on Feb. 28, 1969. One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other. For years, no one asked about those events. But now they are the focus of skirmishing in a presidential election with a group of Swift boat veterans and others contending that Kerry didn’t deserve the Silver Star for what he did on that day, or the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts he was awarded for other actions. Many of us wanted to put it all behind us — the rivers, the ambushes, the killing. I have refused all requests for interviews about Kerry’s service — even those from reporters at the Chicago Tribune, where I work. But Kerry’s critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown. The critics have taken pains to say they’re not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us. It’s gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there. Even though Kerry’s own crew members have backed him, the attacks have continued, and in recent days Kerry has called me and others who were with him in those days, asking us to go public. But what matters most to me is that this is hurting crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for what they did. My intent is to tell the story here and to never again talk publicly about it. I was part of the operation that led to Kerry’s Silver Star. I have no firsthand knowledge of the events that resulted in his winning the Purple Hearts or the Bronze Star. But on Feb. 28, 1969, I was officer in charge of PCF-23, one of three Swift boats — including Kerry’s PCF-94 and Lt. j.g. Donald Droz’s PCF-43 — that carried Vietnamese regional and Popular Force troops and a Navy demolition team up the Dong Cung, a narrow tributary of the Bay Hap River, to conduct a sweep. The approach of the noisy 50-foot aluminum boats, driven by two huge 12-cylinder diesels and loaded with six crew members, troops and gear, was no secret. Ambushes were a virtual certainty and that day was no exception. The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that operation, had talked to Droz and me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did. We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats’ twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crew. The Viet Cong had come to expect that the heavily loaded boats would lumber on past an ambush, firing at the entrenched attackers, beaching upstream and putting troops ashore to sweep back down on the ambush site. Often, the attackers were long gone. The first time we took fire Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half-dozen VC, wounded or captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes. Kerry ordered our boat to head upstream with his, leaving Droz’s boat at the first site. Another ambush. Again, Kerry ordered the turn maneuver, and again it worked. As we headed for the riverbank, I remember seeing a loaded B-40 launcher pointed at the boats. It wasn’t fired as two men jumped up from spider holes. We called Droz’s boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a thatched hut, maybe 15 yards inland. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat’s leading petty officer with whom I’ve checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ. Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby. Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation. John O’Neill, author of a highly critical account of Kerry’s Vietnam service, describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore. The man Kerry chased was not the "lone" attacker at that site, as O’Neill suggests. There were others who fled. There was also firing from the tree line well behind the spider holes and at one point, from the opposite riverbank. It was not the work of one attacker. Our initial reports of the day’s action caused an immediate response from our task force headquarters in Cam Ranh Bay. Then-Capt. and now retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the task force commander, fired off a message congratulating the three Swift boats, saying at one point that the tactic of charging the ambushes was a "shining example of completely overwhelming the enemy" and that it "may be the most efficacious method of dealing with small numbers of ambushers." Hoffmann has become a leading critic of Kerry’s and now says that what the boats did on that day demonstrated Kerry’s inclination to be impulsive to a fault. Our decision to use that tactic under the right circumstances was not impulsive but was the result of discussions well beforehand and a mutual agreement of all three boat officers. It was also well within the aggressive tradition embraced by the late Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, then commander of U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam. Months earlier, a fellow boat officer, Michael Bernique, was summoned to Saigon to explain to top Navy commanders why he had made an unauthorized run up the Giang Thanh River, which runs along the Vietnam-Cambodia border. Bernique, who speaks French fluently, had been told by a source at the mouth of the river a VC tax collector was operating upstream. Ignoring the prohibition against it, Bernique and his crew went upstream and routed the VC, pursuing and killing several. Bernique was given the Silver Star, and Zumwalt ordered other Swifts, which had largely patrolled coastal waters, into rivers. The decision sent a clear message, underscored repeatedly by Hoffmann’s congratulatory messages, that aggressive patrolling was expected and that well-timed, if unconventional, tactics like Bernique’s were encouraged. What we did on Feb. 28, 1969, was well in line with the tone set by our top commanders. Zumwalt made that clear when he flew down to our base at An Thoi off the southern tip of Vietnam to pin the Silver Star on Kerry and assorted Bronze Stars and commendation medals on the rest of us. My Bronze Star citation, signed by Zumwalt, praised the tactic we used that day, saying the VC were "caught completely off guard." There’s at least one mistake in that citation. It incorrectly identifies the river where the main action occurred, a reminder that such documents were often done in haste and sometimes authored for their signers by staffers. It’s a cautionary note for those trying to piece it all together. There’s no final authority on something that happened so long ago — not the documents and not even the strained recollections of those of us who were there. But I know that what some people are saying now is wrong. While they mean to hurt Kerry, what they’re saying impugns others who are not … read more »

Response:

Wrong, stupid.

Response:

Why is a guy who claimed to be "anti-war" and guilty of committing atrocities in 1971 now pretending to be a war hero in 2004?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. For Immediate Release August 19, 2004 Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry’s report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river. Unless he can prove without a doubt that the language was taken from something Kerry himself wrote, which he can’t, one has to assume he’s lying to cover his own ass. End of story. I’m more inclined to believe the person who responds to a lie by making his own statement and putting it in print to be scrutinized by others, than the one who feels compelled to use the courts to censor his detractors…

You misspelled ‘…his defamers.’ Hope this helps. — Don’t believe anything unless you have thought it through for yourself. (Anna Pell Wheeler, 1883-1966)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The man in question is fucked up in the head. "Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13, but he said that Kerry routinely "duked the system" to present his version of events." This should convince anybody with an ounce of common sense that the information that created the military records that the Washington Post unearthed came from Thurlow, not Kerry: "For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow’s boat" If you have ever heard Thurlow (as I have now on several occasions), his charges against Kerry are speculation, and fueled by great hostility. Last night on "Hardball" was the best example of this to date. If this was in a court of law and Thurlow was on the stand, everything that he has to say about Kerry would be tossed out as speculative. In case you hadn’t heard him, Thurlow has admitted his anger toward Kerry is about Kerry’s antiwar activism. The wounds of Viet Nam go very deep, and this attack on Kerry is a continuation of the conservatives’ frustration that has been festering since the U.S. pulled out of Viet Nam. Conservatives did not want the U.S. leaving Viet Nam, and once the war was over, liberals went about their lives. Conservatives have been positioning themselves, strangle-holding American foreign policy, seeing bogeymen everywhere, and CREATING their worst fears.

The funny thing is, that this "whistle blower" says his own medals are fraudulent, and it took him 30+ years to bring it to light. If he accepted a medal that he didn’t deserve, then that was dishonest at the time. so when is he lying, then or now? And if he was lying then, what credibility does he have now?

Response:

I don’t mind having the military go in to put down those who are engaged in massive crimes against humanity/ethnic cleansing.

I mind. Who appointed us cop for the world? This job’s not paid very well, I might add. C//

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. For Immediate Release August 19, 2004 Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry’s report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river. Unless he can prove without a doubt that the language was taken from something Kerry himself wrote, which he can’t, one has to assume he’s lying to cover his own ass. End of story.

I’m more inclined to believe the person who responds to a lie by making his own statement and putting it in print to be scrutinized by others, than the one who feels compelled to use the courts to censor his detractors…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. The man in question is fucked up in the head. "Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13, but he said that Kerry routinely "duked the system" to present his version of events." This should convince anybody with an ounce of common sense that the information that created the military records that the Washington Post unearthed came from Thurlow, not Kerry: "For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow’s boat" If you have ever heard Thurlow (as I have now on several occasions), his charges against Kerry are speculation, and fueled by great hostility. Last night on "Hardball" was the best example of this to date. If this was in a court of law and Thurlow was on the stand, everything that he has to say about Kerry would be tossed out as speculative. In case you hadn’t heard him, Thurlow has admitted his anger toward Kerry is about Kerry’s antiwar activism. The wounds of Viet Nam go very deep, and this attack on Kerry is a continuation of the conservatives’ frustration that has been festering since the U.S. pulled out of Viet Nam. Conservatives did not want the U.S. leaving Viet Nam, and once the war was over, liberals went about their lives. Conservatives have been positioning themselves, strangle-holding American foreign policy, seeing bogeymen everywhere, and CREATING their worst fears.

Response:

I don’t mind having the military go in to put down those who are engaged in massive crimes against humanity/ethnic cleansing. I mind. Who appointed us cop for the world? This job’s not paid very well, I might add.

With great power comes great responsibilities. Who would you suggest handle such things? Or would you let them go unhandled?

Response:

This job’s not paid very well, I might add. With great power comes great responsibilities.

A sound bite is not a "good reason". Who would you suggest handle such things? Or would you let them go unhandled?

In the Eurpean venue, the EU. They’ve got the money now, and it’s well past time they’ve started keeping their own back yard clean. C//

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unless he can prove without a doubt that the language was taken from something Kerry himself wrote, which he can’t, one has to assume he’s lying to cover his own ass. End of story. I’m more inclined to believe the person who responds to a lie by making his own statement and putting it in print to be scrutinized by others, than the one who feels compelled to use the courts to censor his detractors… Unless it someone on your side, and then you’d call it libel like it is. It’s only "libel" if it’s false, bozo.

The statements presented so far are full of holes, inconsistencies, and outright contradictions. Is that what passes for ‘truth’ in your can’t-see-past-my-animus little world? BTW, do you think Kerry lied when he said that he committed war crimes?

You mean his saying that he and the other Swiftboat teams fired 50 cal rounds, that he found out later was technically in violation of the Geneova Convention? Those war crimes? — Don’t believe anything unless you have thought it through for yourself. (Anna Pell Wheeler, 1883-1966)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unless he can prove without a doubt that the language was taken from something Kerry himself wrote, which he can’t, one has to assume he’s lying to cover his own ass. End of story. I’m more inclined to believe the person who responds to a lie by making his own statement and putting it in print to be scrutinized by others, than the one who feels compelled to use the courts to censor his detractors… Unless it someone on your side, and then you’d call it libel like it is.

It’s only "libel" if it’s false, bozo. BTW, do you think Kerry lied when he said that he committed war crimes?

Response:

I’d want to toss out some of the dishonesty and corruption of the party first as well, before I sign up.

*shrug* I view both the large parties as corrupt. C//

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. For Immediate Release August 19, 2004 Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry’s report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river. Unless he can prove without a doubt that the language was taken from something Kerry himself wrote, which he can’t, one has to assume he’s lying to cover his own ass. End of story. I’m more inclined to believe the person who responds to a lie by making his own statement and putting it in print to be scrutinized by others, than the one who feels compelled to use the courts to censor his detractors…

I’d be more inclined to believe the reports of the time than the memories of 35 years later. Memories change. Reports generally don’t.

Response:

Conservatives have been positioning themselves, strangle-holding American foreign policy, seeing bogeymen everywhere, and CREATING their worst fears. You have to wonder, though. Why is it that "conservativism" has somehow become synonymous with pro-military beliefs? Didn’t use to be that way. I’m a small-government anti-interventionist, myself. If it weren’t for issues of religion and the military, I would otherwise likely be a republican.

I’d want to toss out some of the dishonesty and corruption of the party first as well, before I sign up.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The man in question is fucked up in the head. "Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13, but he said that Kerry routinely "duked the system" to present his version of events." This should convince anybody with an ounce of common sense that the information that created the military records that the Washington Post unearthed came from Thurlow, not Kerry: "For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow’s boat" If you have ever heard Thurlow (as I have now on several occasions), his charges against Kerry are speculation, and fueled by great hostility. Last night on "Hardball" was the best example of this to date. If this was in a court of law and Thurlow was on the stand, everything that he has to say about Kerry would be tossed out as speculative. In case you hadn’t heard him, Thurlow has admitted his anger toward Kerry is about Kerry’s antiwar activism. The wounds of Viet Nam go very deep, and this attack on Kerry is a continuation of the conservatives’ frustration that has been festering since the U.S. pulled out of Viet Nam. Conservatives did not want the U.S. leaving Viet Nam, and once the war was over, liberals went about their lives. Conservatives have been positioning themselves, strangle-holding American foreign policy, seeing bogeymen everywhere, and CREATING their worst fears. The funny thing is, that this "whistle blower" says his own medals are fraudulent, and it took him 30+ years to bring it to light. If he accepted a medal that he didn’t deserve, then that was dishonest at the time. so when is he lying, then or now? And if he was lying then, what credibility does he have now?

In one account (the Post article), Thurlow says that he lost the actual citation 20 years ago. In a second recent account, he sys the citation is in the possession of his ex-wife, to whom he longer speaks. Even _if_ the citation is no longer in his possession, didn’t he look at it when he initially received it?

Response:

Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004

Contradicted byh the man in question. For Immediate Release August 19, 2004 Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry’s report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river. To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates-there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day. I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day. It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day. I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew. After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry’s boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry’s boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry’s boat returned several minutes later-under no hail of enemy gunfire-to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up. Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident-the latest one being that Kerry’s boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three-a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire. And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry’s boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention. These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. For Immediate Release August 19, 2004 Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry’s report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

Unless he can prove without a doubt that the language was taken from something Kerry himself wrote, which he can’t, one has to assume he’s lying to cover his own ass. End of story. peace brian

Response:

Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question.

The man in question is fucked up in the head. "Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13, but he said that Kerry routinely "duked the system" to present his version of events." This should convince anybody with an ounce of common sense that the information that created the military records that the Washington Post unearthed came from Thurlow, not Kerry: "For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow’s boat" If you have ever heard Thurlow (as I have now on several occasions), his charges against Kerry are speculation, and fueled by great hostility. Last night on "Hardball" was the best example of this to date. If this was in a court of law and Thurlow was on the stand, everything that he has to say about Kerry would be tossed out as speculative. In case you hadn’t heard him, Thurlow has admitted his anger toward Kerry is about Kerry’s antiwar activism. The wounds of Viet Nam go very deep, and this attack on Kerry is a continuation of the conservatives’ frustration that has been festering since the U.S. pulled out of Viet Nam. Conservatives did not want the U.S. leaving Viet Nam, and once the war was over, liberals went about their lives. Conservatives have been positioning themselves, strangle-holding American foreign policy, seeing bogeymen everywhere, and CREATING their worst fears.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Conservatives have been positioning themselves, strangle-holding American foreign policy, seeing bogeymen everywhere, and CREATING their worst fears. You have to wonder, though. Why is it that "conservativism" has somehow become synonymous with pro-military beliefs? Didn’t use to be that way. I’m a small-government anti-interventionist, myself. If it weren’t for issues of religion and the military, I would otherwise likely be a republican. Me too! Well, I’m not exactly a "small-government anti-interventionist", I’m more of a appropriate-sized-government limited-interventionist. I think government should be as small as it can be while discharging its duties. I don’t mind having the military go in to put down those who are engaged in massive crimes against humanity/ethnic cleansing. I certainly don’t mind a open exchange between equals.

Here here! I second that vote! "That government is best, which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." — Thomas Jefferson "I contend that the strongest of all governments is that which is most free." – (September 27, 1829) President Harrison "This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. . . . In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." —(January 17, 1961) President Eisenhower.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 Contradicted byh the man in question. For Immediate Release August 19, 2004 Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry’s report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

Dance, little gopher, dance. "You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out, you put your right foot in, and you shake it all all about…" The GOP , the party of liars, and those that like being lied to. "I am convinced the -my- report….taken from John….language.. which -falsely- describes.." Uh… if it was -false-, why did -he- plagiarize it! LOL! "That’s how we do the Hokie Pokie!" :D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unless he can prove without a doubt that the language was taken from something Kerry himself wrote, which he can’t, one has to assume he’s lying to cover his own ass. End of story. peace brian

Response:

Me too! Well, I’m not exactly a "small-government anti-interventionist", I’m more of a appropriate-sized-government limited-interventionist. I think government should be as small as it can be while discharging its duties. I don’t mind having the military go in to put down those who are engaged in massive crimes against humanity/ethnic cleansing. I certainly don’t mind a open exchange between equals.

Response:

Military records counter a Kerry critic Fellow skipper’s citation refers to enemy fire By Michael Dobbs Updated: 11:12 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004 WASHINGTON – Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry’s most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events. In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry’s claim that the Massachusetts Democrat’s boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day. But Thurlow’s military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

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