In <news:dMCdnXsx_pnoySPcRVn-tg@gbronline.com>, Rob Duncan said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michael" <muirh…@haidagwaii.net> wrote in message > news:326u1iF3ihoe1U1@individual.net… >> Anyone remember the famous Toronto lawyer Alan Young, the crusading >> lawyer who said the following? >> "We will be successful in invalidating the marijuana >> possession offence and invalidating the horrible regulatory >> regime by year’s end." >>  - Osgoode Law Professor Alan Young, April, 2002 >> Well, the times, they are a-changin’.   Young is now representing a >> bunch of industrialists and financiers whose aim is to make fistfuls of >> money by making sure that home cultivation of medical cannabis is banned, >> so >> that they can be the nation’s only legitimate suppliers.   Health Canada >> is helping them to do this. >> This plan would fail if legalization proceeded, and would *probably* >> fail in the present climate in which med-users can grow their own… and >> it would fail because once the black market is eliminated by >> legalization, the price of good-quality cannabis would *plummet*, since >> no one >> would be running the risk of arrest and imprisonment to cultivate it. >> Remember those stories of old, about how the best-connected railroad >> owners (and later, oil companies) were given all sorts of land, tax >> and legislative advantages by government and the rest were destroyed by >> the unfair competition? >> So, here’s Alan Young… not so much a narc mole, it would seem (of >> which he’s been accused by some people recently), as merely a very >> well-fed >> parasite working on behalf of some of the 21st century’s robber >> railroad barons. >> ((U)) >>  M > Hes none of that Michael.  He was a collaborater from the onset.  I > told you that.  I told that Med MJ activist, who used to post here all the > time, (What happened to him?)  that Canadas MJ movement was riddled > with collaborators.  Seagrams, Big Pharm, the over-all alcohol industry, > the govt, etc., all have plans within plans.  Its big business Michael… > It costs far less to meddle now, rather than trying to deal with the > impact of MJ legalization later on. > It was the plan the whole time.  He didnt switch sides… he was > never on that side.

I’m pretty sure you’re quite right about his original intent… but he’s now shown – by going the full 180

Special Report. http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/052104Madsen/052104madse… Karl Rove’s White House " Murder, Inc." By Wayne Madsen Online Journal Contributing Writer May , 2004-   On September 15, 2001, just four days after the 9-11 attacks, CIA Director George Tenet provided President [sic] Bush with a Top Secret "Worldwide Attack Matrix"-a virtual license to kill targets deemed to be a threat to the United States in some 80 countries around the world. The Tenet plan, which was subsequently approved by Bush, essentially reversed the executive orders of four previous U.S. administrations that expressly prohibited political assassinations. According to high level European intelligence officials, Bush’s counselor, Karl Rove, used the new presidential authority to silence a popular Lebanese Christian politician who was planning to offer irrefutable evidence that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon authorized the massacre of hundreds of Palestinian men, women, and children in the Beirut refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla in 1982. In addition, Sharon provided the Lebanese forces who carried out the grisly task. At the time of the massacres, Elie Hobeika was intelligence chief of Lebanese Christian forces in Lebanon who were battling Palestinians and other Muslim groups in a bloody civil war. He was also the chief liaison to Israeli Defense Force (IDF) personnel in Lebanon. An official Israeli inquiry into the massacre at the camps, the Kahan Commission, merely found Sharon "indirectly" responsible for the slaughter and fingered Hobeika as the chief instigator. The Kahan Commission never called on Hobeika to offer testimony in his defense. However, in response to charges brought against Sharon before a special war crimes court in Belgium, Hobeika was urged to testify against Sharon, according to well-informed Lebanese sources. Hobeika was prepared to offer a different version of events than what was contained in the Kahan report. A 1993 Belgian law permitting human rights prosecutions was unusual in that non-Belgians could be tried for violations against other non-Belgians in a Belgian court. Under pressure from the Bush administration, the law was severely amended and the extra territoriality provisions were curtailed. Hobeika headed the Lebanese forces intelligence agency since the mid- 1970s and he soon developed close ties to the CIA. He was a frequent visitor to the CIA’s headquarters at Langley, Virginia. After the Syrian invasion of Lebanon in 1990, Hobeika held a number of cabinet positions in the Lebanese government, a proxy for the Syrian occupation authorities. He also served in the parliament. In July 2001, Hobeika called a press conference and announced he was prepared to testify against Sharon in Belgium and revealed that he had evidence of what actually occurred in Sabra and Shatilla. Hobeika also indicated that Israel had flown members of the South Lebanon Army (SLA) into Beirut International Airport in an Israeli Air Force C130 transport plane. In full view of dozens of witnesses, including members of the Lebanese army and others, SLA troops under the command of Major Saad Haddad were slipped into the camps to commit the massacres. The SLA troops were under the direct command of Ariel Sharon and an Israeli Mossad agent provocateur named Rafi Eitan. Hobeika offered evidence that a former U.S. ambassador to Lebanon was aware of the Israeli plot. In addition, the IDF had placed a camera in a strategic position to film the Sabra and Shatilla massacres. Hobeika was going to ask that the footage be released as part of the investigation of Sharon. After announcing he was willing to testify against Sharon, Hobeika became fearful for his safety and began moves to leave Lebanon. Hobeika was not aware that his threats to testify against Sharon had triggered a series of fateful events that reached well into the White House and Sharon’s office. On January 24, 2002, Hobeika’s car was blown up by a remote controlled bomb placed in a parked Mercedes along a street in the Hazmieh section of Beirut. The bomb exploded when Hobeika and his three associates, Fares Souweidan, Mitri Ajram, and Waleed Zein, were driving their Range Rover past the TNT-laden Mercedes at 9:40 am Beirut time. The Range Rover’s four passengers were killed in the explosion. In case Hobeika’s car had taken another route through the neighborhood, two additional parked cars, located at two other choke points, were also rigged with TNT. The powerful bomb wounded a number of other people on the street. Other parked cars were destroyed and buildings and homes were damaged. The Lebanese president, prime minister, and interior minister all claimed that Israeli agents were behind the attack. It is noteworthy that the State Department’s list of global terrorist incidents for 2002 worldwide failed to list the car bombing attack on Hobeika and his party. The White House wanted to ensure the attack was censored from the report. The reason was simple: the attack ultimately had Washington’s fingerprints on it. High level European intelligence sources now report that Karl Rove personally coordinated Hobeika’s assassination. The hit on Hobeika employed Syrian intelligence agents. Syrian President Bashar Assad was trying to curry favor with the Bush administration in the aftermath of 9-11 and was more than willing to help the White House. In addition, Assad’s father, Hafez Assad, had been an ally of Bush’s father during Desert Storm, a period that saw Washington give a "wink and a nod" to Syria’s occupation of Lebanon. Rove wanted to help Sharon avoid any political embarrassment from an in absentia trial in Brussels where Hobeika would be a star witness. Rove and Sharon agreed on the plan to use Syrian Military Intelligence agents to assassinate Hobeika. Rove saw Sharon as an indispensable ally of Bush in ensuring the loyalty of the Christian evangelical and Jewish voting blocs in the United States. Sharon saw the plan to have the United States coordinate the hit as a way to mask all connections to Jerusalem. The Syrian hit team was ordered by Assef Shawkat, the number two man in Syrian military intelligence and a good friend and brother in law of Syrian President Bashar Assad. Assad’s intelligence services had already cooperated with U.S. intelligence in resorting to unconventional methods to extract information from al Qaeda detainees deported to Syria from the United States and other countries in the wake of 9-11. The order to take out Hobeika was transmitted by Shawkat to Roustom Ghazali, the head of Syrian military intelligence in Beirut. Ghazali arranged for the three remote controlled cars to be parked along Hobeika’s route in Hazmieh; only few hundred yards from the Barracks of Syrian Special Forces which are stationed in the area near the Presidential palace , the ministry of Defense and various Government and officers quarters . This particular area is covered 24/7 by a very sophisticated USA multi-agency surveillance system to monitor Syrian and Lebanese security activities and is a " Choice " area to live in for its perceived high security . The plan to kill Hobeika had all the necessary caveats and built-in denial mechanisms. If the Syrians were discovered beforehand or afterwards, Karl Rove and his associates in the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans would be ensured plausible deniability. Hobeika’s CIA intermediary in Beirut, a man only referred to as "Jason" by Hobeika, was a frequent companion of the Lebanese politician during official and off-duty hours. During Hobeika’s election campaigns for his parliamentary seat, Jason was often in Hobeika’s office offering support and advice. After Hobeika’s assassination, Jason became despondent over the death of his colleague. Eventually, Jason disappeared abruptly from Lebanon and reportedly later emerged in Pakistan. Karl Rove’s involvement in the assassination of Hobeika may not have been the last "hit" he ordered to help out Sharon. In March 2002, a few months after Hobeika’s assassination, another Lebanese Christian with knowledge of Sharon’s involvement in the Sabra and Shatilla massacres was gunned down along with his wife in Sao Paulo, Brazil. A bullet fired at Michael Nassar’s car flattened one of his tires. Nassar pulled into a gasoline station for repairs. A professional assassin, firing a gun with a silencer, shot Nassar and his wife in the head, killing them both instantly. The assailant fled and was never captured. Nassar was also involved with the Phalange militia at Sabra and Shatilla. Nassar was also reportedly willing to testify against Sharon in Belgium and, as a nephew of SLA Commander General Antoine Lahd, may have had important evidence to bolster Hobeika’s charge that Sharon ordered SLA forces into the camps to wipe out the Palestinians. Based on what European intelligence claims is concrete intelligence on Rove’s involvement in the assassination of Hobeika, the Bush administration can now add political assassination to its laundry list of other misdeeds, from lying about the reasons to go to war to the torture tactics in violation of the Geneva Conventions that have been employed by the Pentagon and "third country" nationals at prisons in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist and columnist. He served in the National Security Agency (NSA) during the Reagan administration and wrote the introduction to Forbidden Truth. He is the co-author, with John Stanton, of "America’s Nightmare: The Presidency of George Bush II." His forthcoming book is titled: "Jaded Tasks: Big Oil, Black Ops, and Brass Plates." Madsen can be reached at:

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Our Lady of Fatima appeared the day Eugenio Pacelli, the future Saint Pope Pius XII, whose ghost instructs the Opus Dei via apparitions inside the Vatican even today, first became a Bishop. But what is meaning Fatima? Fatima al-Zahraa, daughter of Mohammed, mother of the Imams (including Hussein, the forefather of the Jordanian and Iraqi rulers) is for which is named this town Fatima. Why did Our Lady decide to appear in so name town? Because is third secret of Fatima: Virgin Mary and Fatima al-Zahraa are same person! To fight Jews, Greeks, Scottish and other goat people and exterminate them and their infested books, This is why Osama bin laden is our new living saint! Hitler wanted to "Decimate Manhatten"! Osama did! The Portugal News MAIN – 01/11/2003 F

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kerry tossed his medals due to a simularly corrupt, greedy, lying  Pug, Richard Nixon. If you weren’t there, don’t comment on what is beyond your  comprehension. What Kerry did was Patriotic to the American Way. LibDem Lyndon Johnson had nothing to do with it, eh? "Hey! Hey! LBJ! How many boys are you going to kill today?" Funny how these ignorant libs have bought into one of the most repulsive examples of historical revisionism of the previous generation – the idea that Nixon was responsible for the Vietnam War. :O| Nixon just kept it going for a few extra years for political reasons. For all his faults, Nixon tried to find a way to end it w/o the result being utter defeat for the US. However, the lefties WANTED us to turn tail and run so they could credit themselves for a victory against the US, which is one of the reasons they hated him.

Damn those leftists. Every time, I mean every time something goes wrong those lefties are in there somewhere. ((puts on his tin foil hat)) ((look around nervously for signs of black helicopters))

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Paleo-liberals like yourself are going the way of the dodo.

Kerry may represent their last gasp.  Trouble is, if he’s elected he may be the last gasp for all of us. — Jafo

Response:

You like quotes huh? I like facts. Choke these down:

"There are in my memoirs letters he wrote me while I was conducting the negotiations, which say the exact opposite of what’s on this conversation, in which he says ‘Go ahead and do what you need to do, but don’t be affected by the election, and we want an agreement that lasts.’

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Fact is, War means work and Bush as well as Nixon awareness that munitions companys in the Military-Industrial Complex sometimes stimulate the economy doesn’t get by me. Cambodia?  No question about it, we were in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, etc. Hmmmmmm…Where did all the right wing revisionists go?

The left are the masters of history revisionism, the left wing revisionists outnumber the few if any right wing ones. The right is held to a higher standard in the media then the left. The left gets way with murder. The right will be hyper examined and magnified every time. Look at how they tried to burn Reagan for calling the Soviets an Evil Empire. They called him a warmonger. They attacked Reagan for decades. They failed. History has proven him Reagan right.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I replied to your nonsense. LBJ was the one who made the mess in the first place. Nixon was culpable up to the point where he basically went along with LBJ’s and McNamara’s failed policies "You fucked up!  You trusted us!"   – "Otter" (Tim Matheson) in "Animal House" He did introduce the "Vietnamization" program to transition US troops out, and he put on the heat to force the North Vietnamese back to the peace talks in 1972. For all Nixon’s faults, he probably did the best job possible given the mess LBJ put us in, and the political constraints of the time. The left can’t accept this, because their agenda was not only to obscure the fact that a liberal Democrat created the debacle in the first place, but their goal was to ensure the victory of the North as a slap in the face to America as a whole. We heard the left braying the same tired old crap in the eighties in opposition to the Reagan policies that eventually precipitated the fall of the Soviet Union. The left never wanted peace – Joe Draftee wanted peace, so he didn’t have to go, but as a whole the left wasn’t interested in whether the people of SEA lived in peace or not. The left wanted a defeat of the American military, as a way of not only humiliating the "military- industrial" complex, but as a way of gaining brownie points with their socialist/communist brethren all over the world. The only thing that would have been acceptable is if American troops waved white flags and confessed to war crimes to feed their propaganda machine. And the same people today ignore the atrocities of Saddam Hussein. The Left never learns from experience, and therefore it’s time that we instituted some sort of basic tests in intelligence and reasoning ability before one should be allowed to cast a vote in an American election.

For the sake of playing "devil’s advocate" (I’m sure DA will understand the context), what if we were to assume that the left does not WANT "peace"? The left has NEVER rejected Communism or socialism – any criticism of the Soviet Union or China are in terms of specific policies and results, as opposed to the "intentions" or the philosophy as a whole. In fact, the left thinks that socialism can be made to "work" in America, as long as THEY are the ones put in charge. In every major conflict of the last two or three generations, with one singular exception (helping their comrade Uncle Joe Stalin in WWII), the left has been vociferously opposed to our taking up arms against anyone, no matter how brutal the regime or serious the threat to the US. The left also does everything they can to impede our involvement, disrupt necessary support to our troops, provide propaganda victories to our enemies, and undermine our own morale. When it comes to actually trying to resolve an issue to end armed conflict, the left does with it can to obstruct, whether protesting the strategic bombings in Vietnam (the only course of action that was able to force the NV back to the negotiating table to draw up a peace plan), research of space-based missle defense systems during the Reagan Administration, or sanctions against Iraq. Is all this consistent with wanting "peace"? Is ignoring the atrocities of Communists in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the starvation and misery of the "workers" in Cuba and Zimbabew consistent with "peace"? The left loves to claim it is on the side of "freedom", "enlightenment", and "humanity" as it flails against the imagined spectre of conservative Christian fundamentalism in this country, but it fails to have a problem with the very real evil of radical Islam, and the culture of violence and brutality in Iran, Iraq, and the Sudan. Is this their idea of "peace"? Personally, I don’t doubt that there are well-intentioned but misinformed and gullible liberals who have no real malice, but do uncritically endorse any position that claims to be in the name of "peace". However, I submit that the hard-core left in this country (the "Lefty Liberals" I refer to) has no interest in "peace" whatsoever. These people are rabid socialist/communists who recognize that the biggest obstacle to their implementation of their Proletariatan Revolution is the American military-industrial complex, so they seek to dismantle it by dismantling our defense capability and destroying our economy. In this case, I would submit that they HAVE learned from the experience of Vietnam – that the best way to defeat the US is by spreading disinformation, damaging morale, and weakening the will to fight – and have used that for their model from then on to the present day. :O|

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kerry tossed his medals due to a simularly corrupt, greedy, lying Pug, Richard Nixon. If you weren’t there, don’t comment on what is beyond your  comprehension. What Kerry did was Patriotic to the American Way. LibDem Lyndon Johnson had nothing to do with it, eh? "Hey! Hey! LBJ! How many boys are you going to kill today?" Funny how these ignorant libs have bought into one of the most repulsive examples of historical revisionism of the previous generation – the idea that Nixon was responsible for the Vietnam War. :O| Are you saying Nixon bears no responsibility for the Vietnam war or are you just saying that Nixon didn’t start the damn thing. He didn’t start the Vietnam war but he certainly bears some responsiblity for some portion of that war. Of course you will give no credit whatsoever to ending the war to Nixon will you?

The Left spent a lot of time in the historical revisionism department trying to convince the gullible masses that a liberal Democrat would NEVER get us bogged down in an unwinnable war… :O|

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fact is, War means work and Bush as well as Nixon awareness that munitions companys in the Military-Industrial Complex sometimes stimulate the economy doesn’t get by me. Cambodia?  No question about it, we were in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, etc. Hmmmmmm…Where did all the right wing revisionists go? The left are the masters of history revisionism, the left wing revisionists outnumber the few if any right wing ones. The right is held to a higher standard in the media then the left. The left gets way with murder. The right will be hyper examined and magnified every time. Look at how they tried to burn Reagan for calling the Soviets an Evil Empire. They called him a warmonger. They attacked Reagan for decades. They failed. History has proven him Reagan right.

The left hated Reagan BECAUSE he stood up to the Soviets and communism. American Leftists are still convinced to this day that they could make communism and socialism work – if only they were put in charge. :O|

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kerry tossed his medals due to a simularly corrupt, greedy, lying Pug, Richard Nixon. If you weren’t there, don’t comment on what is beyond your comprehension. What Kerry did was Patriotic to the American Way. LibDem Lyndon Johnson had nothing to do with it, eh? "Hey! Hey! LBJ! How many boys are you going to kill today?" Funny how these ignorant libs have bought into one of the most repulsive examples of historical revisionism of the previous generation – the idea that Nixon was responsible for the Vietnam War. :O| No, he’s just responsible for the deaths of about 1 million Cambodians. Sources?

Almost any book on the history of the Cambodian/Kmer Rouge disaster. Here’s one: From http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Pol-Pot It has been argued that the Khmer Rouge may not have come to power without the destabilization of the Vietnam War, particularly of the American bombing campaigns to "clear out the Vietnamese sanctuaries" in Cambodia. William Shawcross argued this point in his 1979 book Sideshow. [...] When the Khmer Rouge gained power, they evacuated citizens from the cities to the countryside where they were forced into communal farms. Property became communalized, and education was done at communal schools. Pol Pot’s regime was extremely harsh on political dissent and opposition. Thousands of politicians and bureaucrats were killed, while Phnom Penh was turned into a ghost city with many dying of starvation, illnesses, or execution. Landmines, which Pol Pot praised as his "perfect soldiers," were widely distributed around the countryside. The casualty list from the civil war, Pol Pot’s consolidation of power, and the invasion by Vietnam is disputed. A figure of three million deaths between 1975 and 1979 was given by the Vietnamese-sponsored Phnom Penh regime, the PRK. Father Ponchaud suggested 2.3 million

SdSD: == ==Iran isn’t arming to "defend itself". It’s arming to export it’s =="Islamic == ==Revolution". IG: == All you’ve proved by this statement is that you == unquestioningly believe everything force-fed == you by your federal government. ==I didn’t get that from "my federal government". I got that from statements ==in the news, from speaking with the dozens of Iranian-Americans I personally ==know, and with observations made over the last 20 years: == == ==Concept of Export of Revolution (Iran) ==The concept of exporting the Islamic Revolution derives from a particular ==worldview that perceives Islamic revolution as the means whereby Muslims and ==non-Muslims can liberate themselves from the oppression of tyrants who serve ==the interests of international imperialism. Both the United States and the ==Soviet Union are perceived as the two principal imperialist powers that ==exploit Third World countries. A renewed commitment to Islam, as the ==experience of Iran in overthrowing the shah demonstrated, permits oppressed ==nations to defeat imperialism. According to this perspective, by following ==Iran’s example any country can free itself from imperialist domination.                 Don’t see any "exporting" going on here. ==Although the political elite agrees upon the desirability of exporting ==revolution, no unanimity exists on the means of achieving this goal. At one ==end of the spectrum is the view that propaganda efforts to teach Muslims ==about the Iranian example is the way to export revolution. Material ==assistance of any form is not necessary because oppressed people demonstrate ==their readiness for Islamic revolution by rising against dictatorial ==governments.                 Don’t see any "exporting" going on here. ==Those who subscribe to this line of reasoning argue that ==Iranians received no external assistance in their Revolution but were ==successful as a result of their commitment to Islam. Furthermore, they cite ==Khomeini’s often stated dictum that Iran has no intention of interfering in ==the internal affairs of other countries. This view is compatible with the ==maintenance of normal diplomatic relations between Iran and other countries.                 Definitely no "exporting" going on here. ==At the opposite end of the spectrum is the view of Iran as the vanguard of a ==world revolutionary movement to liberate Muslim countries specifically, and ==other Third World countries generally, from imperialist subjugation. This ==activist perspective contends that the effective export of revolution must ==not be limited to propaganda efforts but must also include both financial ==and military assistance. Advocates of this view also cite Khomeini to ==justify their position and frequently quote his statements on the ==inevitability of the spread of Islamic revolution throughout the world.                 Don’t see any "exporting" going on here, either. ==Although various viewpoints fall between these two perspectives, since 1979 ==the two extreme views have been in contention in the formulation of foreign ==policy. In general, those who advocate exporting revolution solely through ==education and example have dominated the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, while ==those who favor active assistance to nonstate revolutionary groups have not ==served in important government positions relating to foreign policy.                 Still don’t see any "exporting" going on here. ==Nevertheless, because the supporters of an activist approach include some ==prominent political leaders, they have been able to exercise influence over ==certain areas of foreign relations. This has been especially true with ==respect to policy toward Lebanon and, to a lesser degree, policy in the ==Persian Gulf.                 Doesn’t seem to be much "exporting" of revolution                 going on here, either. ==The earliest organization promoting the active export of revolution was ==Satja, established in the spring of 1979 by Mohammad Montazeri and his close ==associate, Mehdi Hashemi. Satja’s contacts with numerous nonstate groups ==throughout the Arab Middle East soon brought the organization into direct ==conflict with both the IRP leadership and the provisional government.                 Seems it’s not the Iranian *government* that’s                 promoting revolution, but some private group                 that’s in "direct conflict" with the government. ==Ayatollah Hosain Ali Montazeri, the father of Mohammad Montazeri, rebuked ==his son publicly, saying his son had been suffering illusions since being ==tortured by the former shah’s secret police. Satja was forced to disband, ==but Mohammad Montazeri and Hashemi then joined the Pasdaran, where they ==eventually set up within that organization the Liberation Movements Office. ==Mohammad Montazeri was subsequently killed in the June 1981 bombing of the ==IRP headquarters that claimed the lives of over seventy prominent ==politicians. Following that development, Hashemi emerged as the principal ==leader of those advocating both moral and material support for ==revolutionaries around the world.                 Still no *government* or other official exporting                 of revolution from Iran.  Hmmmm . . . wonder where                 all that exporting went to. . . . ==Under Hashemi’s direction, the Liberation Movements Office operated ==autonomously of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and maintained contact with ==opposition movements in several countries. Inevitably, its goal of promoting ==revolution abroad conflicted with the government’s objective of normalizing ==relations with at least some of the governments that the Liberation ==Movements Office was helping to overthrow.                 Well, lookee here . . . the government of Iran                 is in conflict with a private group’s attempts to                 promote revolution. == Control over the direction of ==foreign policy was eventually resolved in favor of the Ministry of Foreign ==Affairs. In 1984 the Liberation Movements Office was removed from the ==jurisdiction of the Pasdaran, and its functions were transferred to the ==Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Information and Security. ==Dissatisfied with these arrangements, Hashemi resigned from his posts and ==went to Qom. There he obtained a position within the large bureaucracy of ==Ayatollah Montazeri, who supervised six seminaries, several charitable ==organizations, a publishing house, and numerous political offices. Having ==lost none of his zeal for exporting revolution, Hashemi succeeded in setting ==up the Office for Global Revolution, which, although nominally part of ==Montazeri’s staff, actually operated independently.                 My, my.  Would-be exporters of revolution, stymied                 by *government* opposition, withdraw and resign                 themselves to operating "independently." == By 1986 Hashemi’s ==activities had once again brought him into conflict with the Ministry of ==Foreign Affairs. In October he and several of his associates were arrested, ==and the Office for Global Revolution was closed. During the summer of 1987, ==Hashemi and some of his colleagues were tried for "deviating from Islam"; ==Hashemi was found guilty and subsequently executed.                 Well, gollee gee.  Lookee here.  One of Iran’s main                 proponents of exporting revolution, a non-government                 private-citizen fanatic, *executed* by the Iranian                 government for becoming too much of a pain in the                 ass, and his revolution-backing group padlocked.                 OK, Stan.  I’m convinced.  Iran’s government                 exports revolution and is "arming" itself to do                 so.  In your dreams, anyway.                 (Jeeezuz — you even fail to understand the material                 you yourself post in aid of your argument.  But then,                 you’re a Repuglican propagandist, so I’m not                 surprised.   You, however, should give your head                 a shake, dumbass.) IG: == As I said earlier, one man’s terrorism is another == man’s resistance.  It’s understandable that the == powers in the United Snakes slander any == sovereignty movement anywhere in the word as == "terrorism," but that doesn’t mean people who == still have the ability to think for themselves need == to accept the definition of those in charge of what == is indisputably the world’s premier terrorist nation. ==Killing civilians (especially your own) is NOT "resistance" – it’s ==terrorism, clear and simple.                 Yes.  From My Lai through Kent State to                 Afghanistan and Iraq (to name only two                 places in which the U.S. has recently killed                 civilians), the homicidal activities of the U.S.                 government easily earn the United Snakes                 the designation as a terrorist nation — by your own                 definition. SdSD: == ==any sane, rational person would come to the conclusion that they == ==need to be stopped. IG: == Actually, the sane, rational attitude towards Iran == (and every other country not actually engaged in == aggression against another country) is to leave == it the fuck alone to solve its own problems without == interference from lackeys doing the bidding of the == American corporate oligarchy. ==When terrorists start attacking us, it’s our business.                 Absolutely.  But that business would be conducted                 more effectively if the response was actually aimed at                 the attackers — instead of a country that had nothing                 whatsoever to do with it.  (Next time there’s a                 terrorist attack on the U.S. perhaps you should attack                 Belgium, which is also an easy target [which is the                 only kind of target your chickenshit government dares.                 attack.]) [snip] SdSD: == ==Our nuclear arsenal keeps the kooks on this planet from doing even more == ==harm == Uh . . . have a look who’s in charge in Washington == these days:  People who believe Jesus Christ is == about to come back to Earth and spirit them up == to heaven; ==Heck, there are people who also believe that socialism is a viable economic … read more »

Response:

Lemme guess – you keep on changing your handle as not to get killfiled, you anti-Semitic retard…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – == Iran should not let itself be bullied by either == Europe or the United Snakes. == == As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm == itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that == includes nuclear weapons. == == America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France == has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes. == India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon == will have. == == What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic == country in the entire world except Pakistan has == nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become == an American lap dog (note that there is no == U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself == of its nukes). == == We can see the result in Iraq, whose oil, sovereignty == and national pride were stolen by the United == Snakes in its continuing campaign for world == domination. == == Would Washington have been able to turn Iraq into == the 51st state and enslave its people, had Iraq been == armed with nuclear weapons and the means to == deliver them? ==We always suspected that nut-cake lefties such as yourself were in ==solidarity with Islamofascists and terrorists, but thanks for  confirming ==that anyway… :O| So . . . people who believe every nation has a natural right to arm itself to discourage aggression are "nut-cake lefties?" Iran isn’t arming to "defend itself". Thats a Stupid statement…where the "hell" did U come from big boy?? Iran as a Country which been Attacked "viciously", must DETER _ANY_ Repeats of what has GONE ON for the last 25 years. We are COMING to KICK yOUR FUCKING "COLLECTIVE ASSES", whoever the Fuck U R! It’s arming to export it’s "Islamic Revolution". SUCK a REVOLUTIONARY DICK….isn’t that how the Machine makes MONEY? KikeWAD!  Given that they are clearly supporters and exporters of terrorism, Compared to ISRAEL and the US, they have been "babies", wait for Whats coming2getchA…Fucking "useless" mullahs!…They are ARAB SHIT, whom have been SUCKING JEW DICKS….They are Gonna go to HELL like the rest of the RELIGIOUS JUDO_XTIAN_MOSLEMIC BULCRAP? Are U religious btw?? any sane, rational person What would a "mad Barking Kike" know about "sanity" now…and since "when" exactly….can U prove that Jews have been anything other than a "CULT"?? and a Genetic Deformity?? would come to the conclusion that they need to be stopped. So do the Jews, even more so….Everyone, with a Couple of "working neurons", can of course see that…except, a Genteically mis firing brains, with a HUGE BLIND SPOT for Seeing Woods for the Trees….to coin a Phrase, which I am sure is lost on a mono sylabic moron like U and the "group" u Spew ZIO CRAP from!!? Of course, the converse also explains why you would support their efforts, but that’s a different issue altogether. Thanks for clearing that up.  When is America going to start destroying its nuclear arsenal? Our nuclear arsenal keeps the kooks on this planet from doing even more harm – which makes it clear why you would wish to see it destroyed. The only people with whom I’m "in solidarity" are those who yearn for freedom, those who resist oppression and dictatorship, those who oppose brutality and persecution, those who hate lies. So you now support our liberation fucking Robots, repeating the SAME CRAP.."liberation" with "poisonous" Heavy Metals….Genetic BOMBS ala Plenty in Iraq and of course the Abu TEL_GHARIB…where Israelis, have Prefected the ART of SEXUAL DEVIANCE and Thaught the Americans how to "WIN the Hearts and Minds of Ancient Civilisations" (( of Iraq from Saddam Hussein? That’s quite a switch… I wish to SWITCH U "OFF"!!!XIII… Of course, there is always a "time_delay" from command to "action"…so Rabbit on….

Response:

[snip] ==Iran isn’t arming to "defend itself". It’s arming to export it’s "Islamic ==Revolution". All you’ve proved by this statement is that you unquestioningly believe everything force-fed you by your federal government.

I didn’t get that from "my federal government". I got that from statements in the news, from speaking with the dozens of Iranian-Americans I personally know, and with observations made over the last 20 years: Concept of Export of Revolution (Iran) The concept of exporting the Islamic Revolution derives from a particular worldview that perceives Islamic revolution as the means whereby Muslims and non-Muslims can liberate themselves from the oppression of tyrants who serve the interests of international imperialism. Both the United States and the Soviet Union are perceived as the two principal imperialist powers that exploit Third World countries. A renewed commitment to Islam, as the experience of Iran in overthrowing the shah demonstrated, permits oppressed nations to defeat imperialism. According to this perspective, by following Iran’s example any country can free itself from imperialist domination. Although the political elite agrees upon the desirability of exporting revolution, no unanimity exists on the means of achieving this goal. At one end of the spectrum is the view that propaganda efforts to teach Muslims about the Iranian example is the way to export revolution. Material assistance of any form is not necessary because oppressed people demonstrate their readiness for Islamic revolution by rising against dictatorial governments. Those who subscribe to this line of reasoning argue that Iranians received no external assistance in their Revolution but were successful as a result of their commitment to Islam. Furthermore, they cite Khomeini’s often stated dictum that Iran has no intention of interfering in the internal affairs of other countries. This view is compatible with the maintenance of normal diplomatic relations between Iran and other countries. At the opposite end of the spectrum is the view of Iran as the vanguard of a world revolutionary movement to liberate Muslim countries specifically, and other Third World countries generally, from imperialist subjugation. This activist perspective contends that the effective export of revolution must not be limited to propaganda efforts but must also include both financial and military assistance. Advocates of this view also cite Khomeini to justify their position and frequently quote his statements on the inevitability of the spread of Islamic revolution throughout the world. Although various viewpoints fall between these two perspectives, since 1979 the two extreme views have been in contention in the formulation of foreign policy. In general, those who advocate exporting revolution solely through education and example have dominated the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, while those who favor active assistance to nonstate revolutionary groups have not served in important government positions relating to foreign policy. Nevertheless, because the supporters of an activist approach include some prominent political leaders, they have been able to exercise influence over certain areas of foreign relations. This has been especially true with respect to policy toward Lebanon and, to a lesser degree, policy in the Persian Gulf. The earliest organization promoting the active export of revolution was Satja, established in the spring of 1979 by Mohammad Montazeri and his close associate, Mehdi Hashemi. Satja’s contacts with numerous nonstate groups throughout the Arab Middle East soon brought the organization into direct conflict with both the IRP leadership and the provisional government. Ayatollah Hosain Ali Montazeri, the father of Mohammad Montazeri, rebuked his son publicly, saying his son had been suffering illusions since being tortured by the former shah’s secret police. Satja was forced to disband, but Mohammad Montazeri and Hashemi then joined the Pasdaran, where they eventually set up within that organization the Liberation Movements Office. Mohammad Montazeri was subsequently killed in the June 1981 bombing of the IRP headquarters that claimed the lives of over seventy prominent politicians. Following that development, Hashemi emerged as the principal leader of those advocating both moral and material support for revolutionaries around the world. Under Hashemi’s direction, the Liberation Movements Office operated autonomously of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and maintained contact with opposition movements in several countries. Inevitably, its goal of promoting revolution abroad conflicted with the government’s objective of normalizing relations with at least some of the governments that the Liberation Movements Office was helping to overthrow. Control over the direction of foreign policy was eventually resolved in favor of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. In 1984 the Liberation Movements Office was removed from the jurisdiction of the Pasdaran, and its functions were transferred to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Information and Security. Dissatisfied with these arrangements, Hashemi resigned from his posts and went to Qom. There he obtained a position within the large bureaucracy of Ayatollah Montazeri, who supervised six seminaries, several charitable organizations, a publishing house, and numerous political offices. Having lost none of his zeal for exporting revolution, Hashemi succeeded in setting up the Office for Global Revolution, which, although nominally part of Montazeri’s staff, actually operated independently. By 1986 Hashemi’s activities had once again brought him into conflict with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. In October he and several of his associates were arrested, and the Office for Global Revolution was closed. During the summer of 1987, Hashemi and some of his colleagues were tried for "deviating from Islam"; Hashemi was found guilty and subsequently executed. http://www.country-studies.com/iran/concept-of-export-of-revolution.html == Given that they are clearly supporters and exporters of ==terrorism As I said earlier, one man’s terrorism is another man’s resistance.  It’s understandable that the powers in the United Snakes slander any sovereignty movement anywhere in the word as "terrorism," but that doesn’t mean people who still have the ability to think for themselves need to accept the definition of those in charge of what is indisputably the world’s premier terrorist nation.

Killing civilians (especially your own) is NOT "resistance" – it’s terrorism, clear and simple. ==any sane, rational person would come to the conclusion that they ==need to be stopped. Actually, the sane, rational attitude towards Iran (and every other country not actually engaged in aggression against another country) is to leave it the fuck alone to solve its own problems without interference from lackeys doing the bidding of the American corporate oligarchy.

When terrorists start attacking us, it’s our business. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ==. Of course, the converse also explains why you would ==support their efforts, but that’s a different issue altogether. Whatever the hell this means. IG: == Thanks for clearing that == up.  When is America going to start destroying its == nuclear arsenal? ==Our nuclear arsenal keeps the kooks on this planet from doing even more ==harm Uh . . . have a look who’s in charge in Washington these days:  People who believe Jesus Christ is about to come back to Earth and spirit them up to heaven;

Heck, there are people who also believe that socialism is a viable economic system – isn’t that just as silly? people who think evolution is an atheist’s fairy tale; people who think the problems of AIDS, over-population and poverty can be solved by advising people not to fuck so much

Some of them can be solved that way… (and by depriving them of information about contraception and abortion), people who believe global warming is a myth, despite the warnings of virtually every reputable scientist on the planet;

Bullshit – plenty of scientists dispute the various global warming theories, despite the efforts of the left-wing media to pretend otherwise. people who are convinced that the only reason anyone would want to attack the U.S. is because they "hate our freedoms."

That would explain the Islamic world quite nicely, so there must be some substance there… What I’m saying, Stan, is that the United Snakes is already being run by some of the biggest kooks on this chunk of space rock,

Not compared to you… and to hold that these nutbars are qualified to dictate which of Earth’s people should be allowed to defend themselves and which must abjectly disarm and obey the dictates of the stone-stupid motherfuckers in Washington is absurd.

Yet, outside of 2 atomic bombs we dropped during wartime (which prevented a feared bloody invasion of the Japanese mainland and in effect saved US AND Japanese lives) we haven’t used a nuke in nearly half a century of having such technology available. Then again, we aren’t willing to be martyrs for any cause. Given that Islam PROMOTES martyrdom, what’s to stop such people from using nukes once they get them? == The only people with whom I’m "in solidarity" are == those who yearn for freedom, those who resist == oppression and dictatorship, those who oppose == brutality and persecution, those who hate lies. ==So you now support our liberation of Iraq from Saddam Hussein? That’s quite ==a switch… You didn’t "liberate" Iraq from anyone, boyo.

And … read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – == Iran should not let itself be bullied by either == Europe or the United Snakes. == == As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm == itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that == includes nuclear weapons. == == America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France == has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes. == India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon == will have. == == What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic == country in the entire world except Pakistan has == nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become == an American lap dog (note that there is no == U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself == of its nukes). == == We can see the result in Iraq, whose oil, sovereignty == and national pride were stolen by the United == Snakes in its continuing campaign for world == domination. == == Would Washington have been able to turn Iraq into == the 51st state and enslave its people, had Iraq been == armed with nuclear weapons and the means to == deliver them? ==We always suspected that nut-cake lefties such as yourself were in ==solidarity with Islamofascists and terrorists, but thanks for  confirming ==that anyway… :O| So . . . people who believe every nation has a natural right to arm itself to discourage aggression are "nut-cake lefties?" Iran isn’t arming to "defend itself".

Thats a Stupid statement…where the "hell" did U come from big boy?? Iran as a Country which been Attacked "viciously", must DETER _ANY_ Repeats of what has GONE ON for the last 25 years. We are COMING to KICK yOUR FUCKING "COLLECTIVE ASSES", whoever the Fuck U R! It’s arming to export it’s "Islamic Revolution".

SUCK a REVOLUTIONARY DICK….isn’t that how the Machine makes MONEY? KikeWAD!  Given that they are clearly supporters and exporters of terrorism,

Compared to ISRAEL and the US, they have been "babies", wait for Whats coming2getchA…Fucking "useless" mullahs!…They are ARAB SHIT, whom have been SUCKING JEW DICKS….They are Gonna go to HELL like the rest of the RELIGIOUS JUDO_XTIAN_MOSLEMIC BULCRAP? Are U religious btw?? any sane, rational person

What would a "mad Barking Kike" know about "sanity" now…and since "when" exactly….can U prove that Jews have been anything other than a "CULT"?? and a Genetic Deformity?? would come to the conclusion that they need to be stopped.

So do the Jews, even more so….Everyone, with a Couple of "working neurons", can of course see that…except, a Genteically mis firing brains, with a HUGE BLIND SPOT for Seeing Woods for the Trees….to coin a Phrase, which I am sure is lost on a mono sylabic moron like U and the "group" u Spew ZIO CRAP from!!? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, the converse also explains why you would support their efforts, but that’s a different issue altogether. Thanks for clearing that up.  When is America going to start destroying its nuclear arsenal? Our nuclear arsenal keeps the kooks on this planet from doing even more harm – which makes it clear why you would wish to see it destroyed. The only people with whom I’m "in solidarity" are those who yearn for freedom, those who resist oppression and dictatorship, those who oppose brutality and persecution, those who hate lies. So you now support our liberation

fucking Robots, repeating the SAME CRAP.."liberation" with "poisonous" Heavy Metals….Genetic BOMBS ala Plenty in Iraq and of course the Abu TEL_GHARIB…where Israelis, have Prefected the ART of SEXUAL DEVIANCE and Thaught the Americans how to "WIN the Hearts and Minds of Ancient Civilisations" (( of Iraq from Saddam Hussein? That’s quite a switch…

I wish to SWITCH U "OFF"!!!XIII… Of course, there is always a "time_delay" from command to "action"…so Rabbit on….

Response:

[snip] ==Iran isn’t arming to "defend itself". It’s arming to export it’s "Islamic ==Revolution".                 All you’ve proved by this statement is that you                 unquestioningly believe everything force-fed                 you by your federal government.  Seeing as                 how those in charge of your federal government                 are proven serial liars, and seeing as how you’ve                 offered nothing to substantiate the above claim,                 this assertion merits no consideration whatsoever. == Given that they are clearly supporters and exporters of ==terrorism                 As I said earlier, one man’s terrorism is another                 man’s resistance.  It’s understandable that the                 powers in the United Snakes slander any                 sovereignty movement anywhere in the word as                 "terrorism," but that doesn’t mean people who                 still have the ability to think for themselves need                 to accept the definition of those in charge of what                 is indisputably the world’s premier terrorist nation. ==any sane, rational person would come to the conclusion that they ==need to be stopped.                 Actually, the sane, rational attitude towards Iran                 (and every other country not actually engaged in                 aggression against another country) is to leave                 it the fuck alone to solve its own problems without                 interference from lackeys doing the bidding of the                 American corporate oligarchy. ==. Of course, the converse also explains why you would ==support their efforts, but that’s a different issue altogether.                 Whatever the hell this means. IG: == Thanks for clearing that == up.  When is America going to start destroying its == nuclear arsenal? ==Our nuclear arsenal keeps the kooks on this planet from doing even more ==harm                 Uh . . . have a look who’s in charge in Washington                 these days:  People who believe Jesus Christ is                 about to come back to Earth and spirit them up                 to heaven; people who think evolution is an                 atheist’s fairy tale; people who think the problems                 of AIDS, over-population and poverty can be                 solved by advising people not to fuck so much                 (and by depriving them of information about                 contraception and abortion), people who believe                 global warming is a myth, despite the warnings of                 virtually every reputable scientist on the planet;                 people who are convinced that the only reason                 anyone would want to attack the U.S. is because                 they "hate our freedoms."                 What I’m saying, Stan, is that the United Snakes                 is already being run by some of the biggest kooks                 on this chunk of space rock, and to hold that these                 nutbars are qualified to dictate which of Earth’s                 people should be allowed to defend themselves                 and which must abjectly disarm and obey the                 dictates of the stone-stupid motherfuckers in                 Washington is absurd. IG: == The only people with whom I’m "in solidarity" are == those who yearn for freedom, those who resist == oppression and dictatorship, those who oppose == brutality and persecution, those who hate lies. ==So you now support our liberation of Iraq from Saddam Hussein? That’s quite ==a switch…                 You didn’t "liberate" Iraq from anyone, boyo.                 You removed a ruling cabal that, nasty as                 it unquestionably was, at least provided                 stable government and domestic peace, and                 you plunged the country into civil war, chaos                 and what looks certain to be perpetual                 occupation and showed the Iranian people                 that Americans are just as competent                 torturers and killers as the regime they supplanted.                 That’s some "liberation" you got there, pal.                 Where can the rest of us get some?                 And you wonder why I advise people to arm                 themselves with whatever it takes to avoid being                 "liberated" like that?                 Give your head a shake, Stan.  Maybe it will                 nudge your brain out of neutral. . — Three weeks ago, The New Republic reported that the Bush administration was pressuring Pakistan to announce a major terrorist capture during the Democratic convention. Hours before Mr. Kerry’s acceptance speech, Pakistan announced, several days after the fact, that it had apprehended an important Al Qaeda operative.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – == Iran should not let itself be bullied by either == Europe or the United Snakes. == == As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm == itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that == includes nuclear weapons. == == America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France == has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes. == India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon == will have. == == What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic == country in the entire world except Pakistan has == nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become == an American lap dog (note that there is no == U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself == of its nukes). == == We can see the result in Iraq, whose oil, sovereignty == and national pride were stolen by the United == Snakes in its continuing campaign for world == domination. == == Would Washington have been able to turn Iraq into == the 51st state and enslave its people, had Iraq been == armed with nuclear weapons and the means to == deliver them? ==We always suspected that nut-cake lefties such as yourself were in ==solidarity with Islamofascists and terrorists, but thanks for confirming ==that anyway… :O| So . . . people who believe every nation has a natural right to arm itself to discourage aggression are "nut-cake lefties?"

Iran isn’t arming to "defend itself". It’s arming to export it’s "Islamic Revolution". Given that they are clearly supporters and exporters of terrorism, any sane, rational person would come to the conclusion that they need to be stopped. Of course, the converse also explains why you would support their efforts, but that’s a different issue altogether. Thanks for clearing that up.  When is America going to start destroying its nuclear arsenal?

Our nuclear arsenal keeps the kooks on this planet from doing even more harm – which makes it clear why you would wish to see it destroyed. The only people with whom I’m "in solidarity" are those who yearn for freedom, those who resist oppression and dictatorship, those who oppose brutality and persecution, those who hate lies.

So you now support our liberation of Iraq from Saddam Hussein? That’s quite a switch…

Response:

== Iran should not let itself be bullied by either == Europe or the United Snakes. == == As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm == itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that == includes nuclear weapons. == == America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France == has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes. == India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon == will have. == == What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic == country in the entire world except Pakistan has == nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become == an American lap dog (note that there is no == U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself == of its nukes). == == We can see the result in Iraq, whose oil, sovereignty == and national pride were stolen by the United == Snakes in its continuing campaign for world == domination. == == Would Washington have been able to turn Iraq into == the 51st state and enslave its people, had Iraq been == armed with nuclear weapons and the means to == deliver them? ==We always suspected that nut-cake lefties such as yourself were in ==solidarity with Islamofascists and terrorists, but thanks for confirming ==that anyway… :O|                 So . . . people who believe every nation has a                 natural right to arm itself to discourage aggression                 are "nut-cake lefties?"  Thanks for clearing that                 up.  When is America going to start destroying its                 nuclear arsenal?                 The only people with whom I’m "in solidarity" are                 those who yearn for freedom, those who resist                 oppression and dictatorship, those who oppose                 brutality and persecution, those who hate lies.                 One man’s "terrorist" is another man’s "freedom                 fighter." — Where religion rules, truth is an outlaw. -Ivan Gowch

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Iran should not let itself be bullied by either Europe or the United Snakes. As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that includes nuclear weapons. America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes. India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon will have. What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic country in the entire world except Pakistan has nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become an American lap dog (note that there is no U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself of its nukes). We can see the result in Iraq, whose oil, sovereignty and national pride were stolen by the United Snakes in its continuing campaign for world domination. Would Washington have been able to turn Iraq into the 51st state and enslave its people, had Iraq been armed with nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them?

We always suspected that nut-cake lefties such as yourself were in solidarity with Islamofascists and terrorists, but thanks for confirming that anyway… :O|

Response:

== ==                 Iran should not let itself be bullied by either ==                 Europe or the United Snakes. == ==                 As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm ==                 itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that ==                 includes nuclear weapons. ==Iran agreed not to arm itself with nuclear weapons by treaty.                 If so, it can simply abrogate that treaty.                 Abrogating treaties has now been made respectable by                 the current administration in Washington, so why                 shouldn’t Iran avail itself of the same privilege?                 Are you saying Iran must play by rules that the                 United Snakes may ignore at will?  Why is that?                 Because Iran is a Muslim state and America is                 run by Bible-blasted born-again nutbars? IG: ==                 America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France ==                 has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes. ==                 India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon ==                 will have. == ==                 What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic ==                 country in the entire world except Pakistan has ==                 nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become ==                 an American lap dog (note that there is no ==                 U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself ==                 of its nukes). ==Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for decades.                 "Decades"?   1998 is a decade ago?  That’s when                 Pakistan first tested a nuclear weapon.                 Why would that matter, anyway? == The goal is to keep the ==nuclear club small so that there is less likelihood of nuclear weapons ==being used or lost.                 Whose goal would that be?                 It is certainly in Iran’s interest to join that                 "nuclear club" as soon as possible.                 In fact, it’s the only way it can safeguard itself                 from U.S. dictates and domination, and you know                 it. — All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or cruelties of mankind. -Joseph Conrad

Response:

                Iran should not let itself be bullied by either                 Europe or the United Snakes.                 As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm                 itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that                 includes nuclear weapons.

Iran agreed not to arm itself with nuclear weapons by treaty.                 America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France                 has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes.                 India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon                 will have.                 What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic                 country in the entire world except Pakistan has                 nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become                 an American lap dog (note that there is no                 U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself                 of its nukes).

Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for decades. The goal is to keep the nuclear club small so that there is less likelihood of nuclear weapons being used or lost. — He and Evie soon fell into a conversation of the "No, I didn’t; yes, you did" type–conversation which, though fascinating to those who are engaged in it, neither desires nor deserves the attention of others. -+E.M. Forster, "Howards End"

Response:

                Iran should not let itself be bullied by either                 Europe or the United Snakes.                 As a sovereign nation, it has every right to arm                 itself in any way its leaders see fit, and that                 includes nuclear weapons.                 America has nukes.  Britain has nukes.  France                 has nukes.  Russia has nukes.  Israel has nukes.                 India has nukes. North Korea has nukes, or soon                 will have.                 What’s missing?  Oh, yes — not a single Islamic                 country in the entire world except Pakistan has                 nuclear weapons, and Musharraf has become                 an American lap dog (note that there is no                 U.S.-led move to force Pakistan to divest itself                 of its nukes).                 We can see the result in Iraq, whose oil, sovereignty                 and national pride were stolen by the United                 Snakes in its continuing campaign for world                 domination.                 Would Washington have been able to turn Iraq into                 the 51st state and enslave its people, had Iraq been                 armed with nuclear weapons and the means to                 deliver them?                 Since the retarded thug George W. Bush labelled Iran                 part of his mythical "Axis of Evil,"  Iran must know                 that it is next on Amerika’s hit list of countries                 whose regime it will change and territory it will                 seize as soon as it can amass enough manpower to                 do so.                 Bush will likely lose the November election,                 but that will not produce a fundamental change in                 America’s corporate-driven agenda of "pacifying" the                 world to make it safe for exploitation by General                 Motors, Wal-Mart and McDonald’s.                 "People the world over who value their                 freedom, and nations that prize their sovereignty,                 must arm themselves and prepare to defend against                 Washington’s inevitable attempt to enforce its will                 on anyone who objects to being turned into a                 Halliburton branch plant.  That means all nations                 must develop their own nuclear arsenals to counter                 nuclear extortion from Washington."                 -Ivan Gowch, April 18, 2004.                 Iran should not allow itself to be turned from its                 path of self-protection by weasel-words from                 Europeans doing the bidding of imperial America.                 (Iranians — do you see the irony of your government                 being told by Britain and France that it’s OK for                 them, but not for you, to have nuclear weapons?                 What does one call people who are fobidden to                 defend themselves?  Slaves.)                 The Muslim world needs nukes, and Iran is its best                 hope of getting them.                 History will not be kind to the present generation of                 Iranian leaders if they blow the opportunity to                 safeguard their nation with the only weapons that                 can discourage crusader nations from subjugating                 it through nuclear extortion.                 That’s what it says here, anyway.                                 === EU Trio Talks with Iran Set for Paris – Diplomats Wednesday, July 28, 2004  PARIS (Reuters) – Britain, Germany and France will meet Iranian officials in Paris Thursday to discuss Tehran’s nuclear program, Western diplomats said Wednesday. The three countries are pressing on with talks with Iran, which they fear wants to develop atomic weapons. Media reports suggest Tehran is close to securing the materials needed for a nuclear bomb, although it insists its nuclear program is purely for peaceful purposes. German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer urged Tehran to stick to its agreements with the EU trio. The trio brokered an agreement with Iran last year under which the Islamic Republic agreed to suspend uranium enrichment and to allow snap inspections of its nuclear facilities. But Tehran was angered last month by a tough resolution sponsored by the three states which rebuked Iran for poor cooperation with the U.N.’s nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). Iran accused the trio of reneging on last October’s agreement and said it would resume the manufacture and assembly of uranium enrichment centrifuges. "I hope Tehran understands that in the interest of Iran and of peace and stability in the region, no miscalculations are made and that they walk through the door we opened," Fischer told the German n-tv channel. "Given the most recent news I am very worried. I hope Tehran understands that this is the wrong path to take." Thursday’s talks, grouping senior Foreign Ministry officials, are expected to take place Thursday afternoon at the French Foreign Ministry, several Western diplomats said. The meeting will be at a higher level than talks in the last few months, with policy directors taking part, they said. The diplomats gave no other details and said it was not clear whether any announcements would be made after the meeting. A French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman declined to say whether there would be a meeting in Paris, but noted that French, German and British officials had made clear they were ready to pursue negotiations. "It is in that context that discussions continue with the Iranian authorities, with a view to providing all guarantees on the peaceful nature of the Iranian nuclear program," she said. The Times newspaper in London said Tuesday that Iran was "months away" from having the capability to enrich uranium for a nuclear bomb.                                 ===

Response:

There is obviously a failure to communicate here. The phrase "changes worlds" means to pass from the physical world to the spirit world.  

In case you haven’t noticed, Ryo-chan has a genetic disorder.

Response:

Please delete improper attributions from your quotes in future posts, as I did not write the following: No he did not change the world. He created the same world.

There is obviously a failure to communicate here. The phrase "changes worlds" means to pass from the physical world to the spirit world.   – - – - TODD TAMANEND CLARK   Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian Endorsement Artist For Moog Synthesizers   The Monongahela River, Turtle Island   http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc2   – - – - "Crazy Horse had the power to dream himself into the real world and leave the illusion behind."                         – - J.D. Blackfoot

Response:

(snip for brevity – that’s a word, right?)  I belive it’s Marlon Brando’s fate that drove his life and destoying his family. His could be behaved like his father more than himself even though he was a famous actor. He had the chance to break away.

I just don’t know, Red C. That is all I am saying. I don’t know, and I don’t see how anyone else can know. "the chance to break away"… We all have chances to break away from something. Is that amazing Mr. Marlon Brando the very famous Hollywood Icon was no more different from a typical American family?

I don’t think he had the lifestyle of a typical American family, no. Yeah I’ve heard all these tragic thing in American family. I just read the local newspaper  a 14-years-boy killed his father, mother and sister with  .38 pistor. Forget about freedom, democracy or god bless America. Ask whatever happens to American family? I’ve no answer for that!

None of us does. Try Iraqi family where they are more tight and more harmonious and still live in traditional extend family.

Well… I understand what you are saying, but also I feel that it could be dangerous to let ourselves romanticize any people too much simply because they are living in their traditional ways. That is what happened here in ‘America’. And that is why there are stereotypes. Why is that American family is turned into so tragic drama? Whatever happened all the progress Americans claim to be made?  Marolon Brando  symbolizes the breakdown of American family.

Many families experience various forms of the same types of heartbreak. That is not judgement but the truth. That’s what I’ve been saying we are stay here we will poison ourself and will poison our children and our children of children. I believe it’s the fate of being American, and you can’t change that no matter how smart you are or how rich you are. As my guru said, it is like looking into mirror and seeing all the crap reflection on you.

Sometimes I get so tired of comparing all the peoples, all the ‘races’, all the cultures. Let the cultures be. Stop assimilating. Start respecting. It is simpler to just see that there are two ’species’. Male and Female. They need one another to survive. Without each other, there is no life. Simple. I don’t buy into that negative world view of seeing crap reflected, it is dehumanized. Although I don’t like to be around people much, every day I meet good people. I also meet people who are suffering in one way or another. Some have been abusive. Some have been abused. Some seem pretty dark, but they still have some little spark of light shining out. Nothing is very cut and dried for me, black and white. So it is crazy for me to try and debate this thing. I hope for a good journey for Marlon Brando, and that he is at peace in his spirit. That’s really all I can say. Donna

Response:

No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation to Tahiti.

A real person with a real life. Suffered. Survived. Saw. Spoke out. Was his self. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let us drum and offer smoke to the seven directions in memoriam of the July 1, 2004 passing of actor and activist Marlon Brando, who did much to aid in the cause of Native American civil rights. In commemoration, here is a list of my favorite Marlon Brando films: 01. Viva Zapata (Elia Kazan, 1952) 02. Apocalypse Now (Francis Ford Coppola, 1979) 03. The Fugitive Kind (Sidney Lumet, 1959) 04. On The Waterfront (Elia Kazan, 1954) 05. The Brave (Johnny Depp, 1997) 06. Burn (Gillo Pontecorvo, 1970 07. The Wild One (Laszlo Benedek, 1953) 08. The Godfather (Francis Ford Coppola, 1972) 09. One-Eyed Jacks (Marlon Brando, 1961) 10. Reflections In A Golden Eye (John Huston, 1967) 11. The Island Of Doctor Moreau (John Frankenheimer, 1997) 12. Candy (Christian Marquand, 1968) – - – - TODD TAMANEND CLARK Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian Endorsement Artist For Moog Synthesizers The Monongahela River, Turtle Island http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc2 – - – - "I’d rather die fighting on my feet than live the rest of my life on my knees."         – - Emiliano Zapata

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for  murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with  non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry  man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation  to Tahiti. A real person with a real life. Suffered. Survived. Saw. Spoke out. Was his self.   How could he be the real person? He is a hollywood actor. He ain’t no average   folk like me or worst. He is an elite with money and power. Thing bothering his life was   his family he came from. It’s like a ghost trying to destorying his life. The ghost driving his life to follow his father legacy. Therefore, his life was partly destoried. Can you see that? His children.  He destoried his children. He is mostly responsible for that. I’m not sure if he ever spoke out about his failing parenting or marriage. Why he married many times?  Sure because he got money and fame. Such an easy way to out his messy problem. Money can’t help some problems, don’t matter how much you have. I have a cousin, dirt poor, not even 40 yet, and she’s been married 9 times. NINE TIMES! That beats Elizabeth Taylor. She’s messed up, I think… but I’m sure money wouldn’t help. Her dad ran off when she was a baby. Her mom (my aunt) and stepdad later died in a car accident – which also put her in a body cast for a year or so – she was in the back seat and was the only one who came out alive. Who knows what the main cause was… of her turning out the way she did? Her older sister is fine. Her younger brother is fine. But she’s always in some kind of trouble. We still love her. What can I say? Things happen, and no one is perfect. Some families have cycles that keep going and going. It isn’t so easy to break the cycle. It isn’t so easy to be the ‘perfect parent’ or to not be influenced by your past experiences or your personality. I think Marlon Brando’s kids might have had a lot of things behind them – influencing them – besides their father’s past or even his wealth and fame. They also had to deal with the conflict between their mother’s side and their father’s side – both of those histories being contrasted internall. There is no way – even after hearing the children talk or seeing ‘interviews’ – that any outside viewer can really know the whole story or understand it. That is because they were real people regardless of what ‘we’ see. It’s so easy to judge… but why take the easy way? Donna

 I belive it’s Marlon Brando’s fate that drove his life and destoying his family. His could be behaved like his father more than himself even though he was a famous actor. He had the chance to break away. Is that amazing Mr. Marlon Brando the very famous Hollywood Icon was no more different from a typical American family?  Yeah I’ve heard all these tragic thing in American family. I just read the local newspaper  a 14-years-boy killed his father, mother and sister with  .38 pistor. Forget about freedom, democracy or god bless America. Ask whatever happens to American family? I’ve no answer for that! Try Iraqi family where they are more tight and more harmonious and still live in traditional extend family. Why is that American family is turned into so tragic drama? Whatever happened all the progress Americans claim to be made?  Marolon Brando  symbolizes the breakdown of American family. That is not judgement but the truth. That’s what I’ve been saying we are stay here we will poison ourself and will poison our children and our children of children. I believe it’s the fate of being American, and you can’t change that no matter how smart you are or how rich you are. As my guru said, it is like looking into mirror and seeing all the crap reflection on you.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation to Tahiti. A real person with a real life. Suffered. Survived. Saw. Spoke out. Was his self.

Well put. N“

Response:

In commemoration, here is a list of my favorite Marlon Brando films: 01. Viva Zapata (Elia Kazan, 1952) 02. Apocalypse Now (Francis Ford Coppola, 1979)

I’m less and less fond of htis one, which I saw in the Ziegfield in the 2d week of its release.  So much of the part with Brando’s Montagnard camp was so directly from the film of *Lord Jim*. 03. The Fugitive Kind (Sidney Lumet, 1959) 04. On The Waterfront (Elia Kazan, 1954)  

My favorite. 05. The Brave (Johnny Depp, 1997)

I want to see "The Brave" (haven’t) just because I like Johnny Depp AND I like Brando. 06. Burn (Gillo Pontecorvo, 1970

Hasn’t worn well. Fascinating project, but it didn’t hang together well, plus Brando’s presence turned this Cuban anti-Imperialist indie flick into something lopsided. Hard to appreciate the actor who played Jose Dolores with Brando dominating, yet the filmmaker wanted Jose Dolores to be the revolutionary hero. 07. The Wild One (Laszlo Benedek, 1953)  

I’m not a big Lee Marvin fan. 08. The Godfather (Francis Ford Coppola, 1972)   09. One-Eyed Jacks (Marlon Brando, 1961)

Get up, ya big tubba guts !! 10. Reflections In A Golden Eye (John Huston, 1967)   11. The Island Of Doctor Moreau (John Frankenheimer, 1997) 12. Candy (Christian Marquand, 1968)

I like him in *Julius Caesar*, too. I like James Mason also in that, tho i like James Mason in anything. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — – - – TODD TAMANEND CLARK   Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian Endorsement Artist For Moog Synthesizers   The Monongahela River, Turtle Island   http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc2   – - – - "I’d rather die fighting on my feet than live the rest of my life on my knees."         – - Emiliano Zapata

Response:

He raised money for Leonard Peltier. he bailed on sacheen littlefeather.

Sacheen Littlefeather was a fake Indian who conned Marlon Brando.  In what way did he bail on her??

Response:

He raised money for Leonard Peltier. he bailed on sacheen littlefeather. Sacheen Littlefeather was a fake Indian who conned Marlon Brando.  In what way did he bail on her??

From The News of the Odd website (http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1027.html ): ‘The truth about Sacheen Littlefeather is more complex, though. While Hollywood might have questioned her qualifications, she is, in fact, Native American: part Apache, part Yaqui, part Pueblo and part Caucasian. "Littlefeather" is a name she used professionally, and still uses today. Her brief notoriety did result in a few film roles, and an appearance in Playboy, but her career did not last long. She has never given up her activism (indeed, she credits her mention of Wounded Knee with bringing her to the attention of the FBI, who she believes ended her film career). She promotes a number of Native American causes, encouraging Native Americans to work in Hollywood, fighting to combat alcoholism, obesity and diabetes among Native Americans, and caring for Native Americans with AIDS, her brother among them. She is also the coordinator of the Kateri Circle of the Archdiocese of San Francisco, which blends Native American spirituality with Catholic ritual, in honor of Kateri Tekakwitha, a 17th century Algonquin maiden beatified by Pope John Paul II. ‘Brando is uncomfortable talking about Sacheen Littlefeather, but she remembers him with some fondness. "He helped me to become an infamous person," she says. "It definitely put me on the map."’

Response:

No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for  murdering.

Not so. Christian got out after about five years.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for  murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation to Tahiti. A real person with a real life. Suffered. Survived. Saw. Spoke out. Was his self.   How could he be the real person? He is a hollywood actor. He ain’t no average   folk like me or worst. He is an elite with money and power. Thing bothering his life was   his family he came from. It’s like a ghost trying to destorying his life. The ghost driving his life to follow his father legacy. Therefore, his life was partly destoried. Can you see that? His children.  He destoried his children. He is mostly responsible for that. I’m not sure if he ever spoke out about his failing parenting or marriage. Why he married many times?  Sure because he got money and fame. Such an easy way to out his messy problem.

Money can’t help some problems, don’t matter how much you have. I have a cousin, dirt poor, not even 40 yet, and she’s been married 9 times. NINE TIMES! That beats Elizabeth Taylor. She’s messed up, I think… but I’m sure money wouldn’t help. Her dad ran off when she was a baby. Her mom (my aunt) and stepdad later died in a car accident – which also put her in a body cast for a year or so – she was in the back seat and was the only one who came out alive. Who knows what the main cause was… of her turning out the way she did? Her older sister is fine. Her younger brother is fine. But she’s always in some kind of trouble. We still love her. What can I say? Things happen, and no one is perfect. Some families have cycles that keep going and going. It isn’t so easy to break the cycle. It isn’t so easy to be the ‘perfect parent’ or to not be influenced by your past experiences or your personality. I think Marlon Brando’s kids might have had a lot of things behind them – influencing them – besides their father’s past or even his wealth and fame. They also had to deal with the conflict between their mother’s side and their father’s side – both of those histories being contrasted internall. There is no way – even after hearing the children talk or seeing ‘interviews’ – that any outside viewer can really know the whole story or understand it. That is because they were real people regardless of what ‘we’ see. It’s so easy to judge… but why take the easy way? Donna

Response:

He raised money for Leonard Peltier. he bailed on sacheen littlefeather. Sacheen Littlefeather was a fake Indian who conned Marlon Brando.  In what way did he bail on her??

fake, you mean maria cruz was  *made in taiwan* likea tourist rubber tommyhawk? or are you referring to blood quantum? from what i heard, ennyhoo, she got up and made a rejection speech for his *Holy Artsy Fart Tubbyness* and he basically stood back and did nothing when hollyweird blackballed her, you know, like a chickenshit hiding behind his mommy’s skirt. perhaps i heard wrong though.  *shrugs*

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for  murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation to Tahiti. A real person with a real life. Suffered. Survived. Saw. Spoke out. Was his self.

  How could he be the real person? He is a hollywood actor. He ain’t no average   folk like me or worst. He is an elite with money and power. Thing bothering his life was   his family he came from. It’s like a ghost trying to destorying his life. The ghost driving his life to follow his father legacy. Therefore, his life was partly destoried. Can you see that? His children.  He destoried his children. He is mostly responsible for that. I’m not sure if he ever spoke out about his failing parenting or marriage. Why he married many times?  Sure because he got money and fame. Such an easy way to out his messy problem.

Response:

He raised money for Leonard Peltier.

he bailed on sacheen littlefeather.

Response:

No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation to Tahiti. He raised money for Leonard Peltier.

Aloha All, My hope in the SPIRIT of ALL who have made sacrifices beyond for what is a brighter better future for the least counted or smallest voice in this great land IN THE SPIRIT OF ALL NATIONS! Brando DID SACRIFICE plenty and suffered greatly as a fool and as a father serviver of plenty all can relate too "in the spirit of "all relations" I sat at a little kitchen tble with a woman who spoke highly of Marlon Brando and his comitmient to Civil Rights and what WE ALL CAN DO to help creeate awearn3esses where there was at the time "the 70′’s" hardly a voice more abled.Sat at the same table next to Another famouse Actor of the time Jane Fonda! It’s a humbleing experience truly to realize the same table,same kitchen! Both made promesess! BOTH made Promises to make a way a doffrenence and create Great posotive voices for OUR FUTURES! Brando MADE THE SACRIFICES as an Actor plenty, more over helped to inspire Activism in an Industry that TODAY is influence and cannot even "Play" ingorant! NO Saint was Brando, he was a man with a burning conciance and the passion to inspire even himself to do! and perhaps even be a better humanbean not just man or father or the basics. Personaly,remembering the guy and the work he tried to accomplesh outside of the glare of etc’s etc’s and bullshit so ‘on etc…. LOL! In the SPIRIT Of Crazy Horse Howl’n!!!!! Howl’n in the Spirit F’n indeed!< BTW On Larry King live Brando DID get away with say’n the "fucck" word! LOL!!!!! Holw’n LOL! HA how’s that for P Freek’n C! Ohhhhh My! OOOhhhh mmmmyyeeee!!! That’s funny Much Aloha’s to Brando…Lisa D….

Response:

No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation to Tahiti.

He raised money for Leonard Peltier.

Response:

No he did not change the world. He created the same world. Marlon Brando came from very bad family. His parent were alcholic. So his childhood was bad. And he created same bad childhood for his children. His son Christian is in jail for serving life sentence for murdering. His daughter was suicided.  He has many relationship mostly with non-white women. I don’t think he was good father, a sort of bitter and angry man despite being famous movie star, and what is this thing about helping out Native movement. I thought his helping was about taking vacation to Tahiti. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let us drum and offer smoke to the seven directions in memoriam of the July 1, 2004 passing of actor and activist Marlon Brando, who did much to aid in the cause of Native American civil rights.   In commemoration, here is a list of my favorite Marlon Brando films: 01. Viva Zapata (Elia Kazan, 1952) 02. Apocalypse Now (Francis Ford Coppola, 1979) 03. The Fugitive Kind (Sidney Lumet, 1959) 04. On The Waterfront (Elia Kazan, 1954)   05. The Brave (Johnny Depp, 1997)   06. Burn (Gillo Pontecorvo, 1970 07. The Wild One (Laszlo Benedek, 1953)   08. The Godfather (Francis Ford Coppola, 1972)   09. One-Eyed Jacks (Marlon Brando, 1961) 10. Reflections In A Golden Eye (John Huston, 1967)   11. The Island Of Doctor Moreau (John Frankenheimer, 1997) 12. Candy (Christian Marquand, 1968) – - – - TODD TAMANEND CLARK   Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian Endorsement Artist For Moog Synthesizers   The Monongahela River, Turtle Island   http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc2   – - – - "I’d rather die fighting on my feet than live the rest of my life on my knees."         – - Emiliano Zapata

Response:

Let us drum and offer smoke to the seven directions in memoriam of the July 1, 2004 passing of actor and activist Marlon Brando, who did much to aid in the cause of Native American civil rights.   In commemoration, here is a list of my favorite Marlon Brando films: 01. Viva Zapata (Elia Kazan, 1952) 02. Apocalypse Now (Francis Ford Coppola, 1979) 03. The Fugitive Kind (Sidney Lumet, 1959) 04. On The Waterfront (Elia Kazan, 1954)   05. The Brave (Johnny Depp, 1997)   06. Burn (Gillo Pontecorvo, 1970 07. The Wild One (Laszlo Benedek, 1953)   08. The Godfather (Francis Ford Coppola, 1972)   09. One-Eyed Jacks (Marlon Brando, 1961) 10. Reflections In A Golden Eye (John Huston, 1967)   11. The Island Of Doctor Moreau (John Frankenheimer, 1997) 12. Candy (Christian Marquand, 1968) – - – - TODD TAMANEND CLARK   Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian Endorsement Artist For Moog Synthesizers   The Monongahela River, Turtle Island   http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc2   – - – - "I’d rather die fighting on my feet than live the rest of my life on my knees."         – - Emiliano Zapata

Response:

AZT ROULETTE The impossible choices facing HIV-positive women. By Celia Farber

Indeed, there are some very difficult choices. These women are HIV+. So again, it seems Celia is on the side that says HIV exists. Yet she can’t yet seem to grasp that such infection results in illness for the majority of infected people. There are MANY things people can do, including a powerful antioxidant protocol. Yet that for many is as out of the question as antivirals due the high cost and lack of availability (especially agents like N-acetylcysteine, carnitine or acetylcarnitine, alpha lipoic acid). Not EVER taking ARV is a bad idea to push. One that will–and has due to the infamous indifference and cruelty of George Bush, the pharmaceutical industry and most corrupt governments globally–killed many women. And men. And kids. We SHOULD be trying to figure out, at this point, how to help ameliorate serious side effects…but most people with HIV in the world continue to die at a very young age.                 George M. Carter

Response:

Excellent–and thanks for posting this. On the one hand, it shows a potential future problem with AZT therapy in HIV+ pregnant women. Nevirapine may be a better bet if used in single doses (to prevent hepatotoxicity). Reduction in mother to child transmission may be achieved without mitochondrial toxicity.

I did ask about this recently: surprisingly there’s no real plans to replace AZT in the "PEP" protocol for babies born to infected mothers. Yet. GTG, a peds ID meeting in 5 ) Bennett

Response:

AZT ROULETTE The impossible choices facing HIV-positive women. By Celia Farber Mothering Kris Chmiel is a housewife and mother of two young children, living in Denver. When she was pregnant with her second child, a movement had just gotten under way to test all pregnant women in the state of Colorado for HIV, the virus widely believed to cause AIDS. (Critics remind us that what is tested for is not, in fact, HIV, but antibodies to HIV.) She was perfectly healthy and in her first month of pregnancy. She wasn’t worried — she had been monogamous with her husband for the past nine years. When the test came back "positive," she literally did not believe it. Her doctors strongly urged her to immediately start taking the AIDS drug AZT, in an effort to prevent transmission to her child. "They finally wore me down," she says, "even though it was totally against my intuition." In her fifth month of pregnancy, Chmiel began taking 500 milligrams of AZT, a drug that has been routinely given to pregnant HIV-positive women following a 1994 study — ACTG 076 — which claimed efficacy in reducing the transmission from mother to child. (1) (AZT stands for azidothymidine and is marketed under the names Zidovudine or Retrovir.) Chmiel’s daughter is two years old today, and has twice tested negative for HIV infection. By the standards of the AIDS establishment, she is not only a success story, but the very epitome of medicinal victory — perhaps the only "victory" in the entire realm of AIDS research. She is precisely the kind of baby who would serve as a poster child for those forces that are pushing hard for mandatory testing, as well as mandatory treatment, and maybe even mandatory AZT use by all pregnant women — a "saved" baby. But to Chmiel, there are strong undertones of regret, anger, and even despair when she thinks back on her choice to take AZT. Follow-up HIV tests after her child was born gave results different from the first one, throwing into question whether she ever did have HIV. One test was indeterminate, and another was negative. She soon started doing her own research, and found a paper citing all the underlying conditions — as many as 64 — that can cause a false positive HIV- antibody test. One of them is pregnancy. (See "How Accurate Is the HIV Test" on page 60.) She also became more and more aware of the potential toxic effects of AZT, which, although it is said to be "safe" for both mother and child, is a known carcinogen, mutagen, and teratogen — a drug long classified as "contraindicated" in pregnancy. For Chmiel, who stayed on AZT for a year after her child was born, the breaking point with AZT came when the drug’s toxicity became so overwhelming that she crawled to the bathroom and kept vomiting for hours. "I just couldn’t take it anymore," she says, adding that when she stopped taking the drug, her health returned. There are five categories that the FDA uses for pregnancy drug classification, listed from the safest to most dangerous — A, B, C, D, and X. AZT is listed in Category C and is described as a drug in which "safety in human pregnancies has not been determined, animal studies are either positive for fetal risk or have not been conducted, and the drug should not be used unless the potential benefit outweighs the potential risk to the fetus." In the case of AZT and HIV, the "risk" is a variable that is inextricable from a core question that hasn’t been resolved, namely, "Does a positive HIV antibody test predict an inevitable progression to sickness and death?" Some experts say yes, others say no. (See "Does HIV Cause AIDS?" page 56.) Several studies, particularly in recent years, have noted how an increasing number of children born HIV-positive are growing into adolescence without any sign of sickness. A study that came out of the 1996 International AIDS Conference in Vancouver reported that 37 percent of all HIV- positive babies would never progress into full-blown AIDS. (2) In his landmark book Rethinking AIDS, Dr. Robert Root-Bernstein states, "Less than a third of HIV-sero-positive infants go on to develop AIDS." (3) It may be nearly impossible to ferret out what precisely we mean when we talk about children "progressing," because the waters are clouded from the start. Progressing from what to what? As Root- Bernstein points out, 80 percent of HIV-positive infants in the US are born to drug-addicted mothers — whose immune systems are severely compromised with or without HIV — and those babies all will inherit their mother’s immune system. If the mother is sick, the baby will be sick. Unfortunately, few research efforts have been aimed at truly resolving the fundamental question of how HIV, as distinct from all other factors, affects children, because mainstream HIV dogma holds that there is no question. If a mother has HIV, she and her child will be viewed through the lens of HIV, and not seen in the context of their whole immediate environment — although, as Root-Bernstein documents extensively, babies born to HIV-positive mothers often have identical health profiles to their mothers, whether these babies are positive or negative. (4) The unified voice of AIDS research takes a far more simplistic view of the problem. "There are children, about one third, who we call long-term nonprogressors," says Dr. Ellen Cooper, principal researcher of Women and Infants Transmission Study (WITS), an ongoing federal research program. "We’ve not followed the disease long enough to know absolutely, but the thinking now is, there’s nobody who doesn’t progress, it’s just a question of how quickly you progress, and how good we are at coming up with new therapies to help you maintain your health and predict when you’re going to decline." The thought is, there is nobody who doesn’t progress… Where did this "thought" originate? And how is it influencing HIV- positive women, every day, all around the country? In the fractious, vast, and complex universe of HIV and AIDS, these women are looking through a kaleidoscope of information, both in written form and learned firsthand, and making very difficult decisions about how to handle the news of a positive HIV-antibody test — for themselves, and for their children, both born and unborn. "Do you think that AZT had any adverse effect on your child?" I ask Chmiel. "Yes, I do," she says firmly. "She has a very enlarged cranium. That’s typical of most of the AZT babies I have observed." What she tells me next sounds like a terrible dream. "They’re killing babies," she says emphatically. One young woman who came to Chmiel for counseling at the dissident AIDS activist group HEAL in Denver, had watched her child test positive for HIV shortly after being vaccinated (vaccinations can cause the HIV test to produce a false positive). The baby was put on AZT, despite the fact that the mother was HIV negative. Three months later, the baby was dead. Another mother who contacted Chmiel had a baby with hemophilia, who had received Factor 8 clotting plasma (yet another possible source of false positives). After testing positive, the baby was put on several medications and died after only five months. "That child’s mother is still devastated," Chmiel says. "She believes it was the drugs that killed her son." Even when children taking AZT survive, Chmiel firmly believes, the consequences of the drug use can be dire. "I went to this conference that they held on HIV and pregnancy at Children’s Hospital here in Denver," she says, "and a lot of the mothers there had taken AZT during pregnancy, and they had their kids with them. I looked from one to the other, and every single one of those kids had enlarged craniums. Their heads looked exactly like my kid’s head. They’re all AZT babies." Few, if any, studies in the history of AIDS research have caused such a momentous shift in policy, medical practice, and zeitgeist as the one called ACTG 076. To believers, it is perhaps the single greatest breakthrough in the history of AIDS research; to detractors, it is the most alarming and radical turn prenatal care has ever taken. Call up virtually anybody who works within obstetrics, HIV/AIDS, and pediatrics and they will tell you the same thing: that the protocol now known simply as 076 — the study that first caused the FDA to approve the use of AZT in pregnant women — has been perhaps the most unequivocally encouraging news in all of HIV/AIDS research. Fourteen hundred babies per year in the United States alone, they say, are "saved" by AZT use, which by unknown mechanisms is said to reduce maternal transmission of HIV. They will also tell you that there have been no documented complications from AZT, and that even if there were, they would pale in comparison to the dreadful effects of HIV itself. In ACTG 076, the transmission of HIV during labor was reduced from 25.5 percent in the placebo group to 8.3 percent in the group that was given AZT throughout the second and third trimesters and intravenously during labor. The babies in that group were then given AZT for six weeks after birth. Maternal transmission rates vary greatly — in industrialized countries, 25 percent is certainly the high end. In several European studies, the rate is as low as between about 7 percent and 14 percent — levels that are said to correlate with improved prenatal care. (5) In one quite surprising study from Malawi, it was found that transmission was closely correlated with levels of vitamin A in the mother. Those with the lowest levels transmitted HIV to their babies at a rate of 32.4 percent, while those with the highest levels had a transmission rate of only 7.2 percent — a figure lower than the lowest figures attributed to AZT. (6) And yet, the discourse around this subject is framed inextricably around the notion that toxic medications constitute the only legitimate and, for the mother, "responsible" route to reduced transmission. Such pharmaceutical intervention during … read more »

Response:

Excellent–and thanks for posting this. On the one hand, it shows a potential future problem with AZT therapy in HIV+ pregnant women. Nevirapine may be a better bet if used in single doses (to prevent hepatotoxicity). Reduction in mother to child transmission may be achieved without mitochondrial toxicity. Whether over time these HIV uninfected infants will recover is not known. Whether it will have a clinical effect later in life is not yet known–it may well…and most importantly, could micronutrient supplementation help offset some of this damage? Especially certain minerals (selenium), B complex, carnitine/acetylcarnitine and NAC to replenish intracellular antioxidant status and limit mitochondrial damage? Important questions. Finally, this once again does NOT support the notion that HIV doesn’t exist (it does) or cause AIDS. Indeed, here we see that UNTREATED mothers’ infants had damaged mitochondria. Why? Because one of the pathways to AIDS after HIV infection is the dysregulated redox status, increased oxidative stress and mitochondrial damage induced by HIV and its proteins (e.g., tat). HIV causes AIDS. Maybe Paul will discover if he has the guts to take the HIV challenge–but I see he has very sensibly backed away from this blustering.                 George M. Carter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JAIDS Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes 2003; 33(2):175-183 Long-Term Mitochondrial Toxicity in HIV-Uninfected Infants Born to HIV-Infected Mothers *Miriam C. Poirier; *Rao L. Divi;

And we all know that PhD means "Piled Higher and Deeper".

Bill your job must not have been outsourced yet.  You will be waiting on me soon at Wal-Mart.  Because I know you did not go to college as Dr. Goldblatt did and is a part of academia. The most important decision any president makes is the decision on war or peace. No president who misleads the country on the need for war deserves to be re-elected. A president who does so must be held accountable. The last thing our nation needs is a sign on the desk in the Oval Office in the White House that says, ‘The buck doesn’t stop here anymore. A Vote for the GOP in Illinois is a vote for corruption like we have had for the past thirty years in Illinois. Regardless what the candidate says, the Republican candiate will support the party leadership and fund the party elites and leadership. The only way to end the evil corruption of the Illinois GOP is to VOTE AGAINST EVERY CANDIATE! Shalom, —Prof. Leland Milton Goldblatt, Ph.D.

Misc.transport.air-industry is a moderated newsgroup. Unfortunatly, its designated moderators have all vanished and the group has been disused for quite a few years now. NNTP rules make it a tad hard to hijack such a group from "dead" people, but it has been done before. Would there be any support to get this group working again with a couple of moderators to filter out all the crud ? ( we probably would want to update the charter as well to automatically prohibit excessive cross posting, and anonymous postings that do not have explicit text in the body of the message stating that it is posted anonymously (with no forged username). Comments ?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Misc.transport.air-industry is a moderated newsgroup. Unfortunatly, its designated moderators have all vanished and the group has been disused for quite a few years now. NNTP rules make it a tad hard to hijack such a group from "dead" people, but it has been done before. Would there be any support to get this group working again with a couple of moderators to filter out all the crud ? ( we probably would want to update the charter as well to automatically prohibit excessive cross posting, and anonymous postings that do not have explicit text in the body of the message stating that it is posted anonymously (with no forged username). Comments ?

I’d love it.  What are the mechanics involved?

Response:

Misc.transport.air-industry is a moderated newsgroup. Unfortunatly, its designated moderators have all vanished and the group has

It would be heaven sent! This group has really gone in the bucket. I was away from it for a couple of years and sure don’t like what it has become. I spend more time killfiling the crud than I do reading legitimate posts Bob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Misc.transport.air-industry is a moderated newsgroup. Unfortunatly, its designated moderators have all vanished and the group has It would be heaven sent! This group has really gone in the bucket. I was away from it for a couple of years and sure don’t like what it has become. I spend more time killfiling the crud than I do reading legitimate posts Bob

By the way, what happened to Helen Rose? Wasn’t she the principal moderator? Bob

Response:

Misc.transport.air-industry is a moderated newsgroup.

Isn’t that where you used to get your ass thoroughly kicked? Some people are just gluttons for punishment. Would there be any support to get this group working again with a couple of moderators to filter out all the crud ?

You mean so that you and your buddies could fill it up with your rabid anti-USA jihad? Comments ?

Yes….. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS    About JF MEZEI (Rev. Mar. 01, 2004) 1.  Who is JF Mezei? Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the longest running trolls in usenet history. ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS THEIR MESSAGES.*** If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your messages, 2.  How long has he been trolling? For well over a decade. 3.  Where does he live? Montreal, Quebec, Canada Jean-Francois Mezei 86 Harwood Gate Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 (514) 695-8259 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his ears closed while yelling "I can’t hear you, I can’t hear anything you say!" 5.  What does he troll about? His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can’t do that then he’ll just start making lewd posts. 6.  What does he hate about the USA? Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, more successful version of their country and they can’t stand it.  Some of JF’s favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc. 7.  What about his sexual trolling? Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women’s genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) … the list is endless. 8.  Circumcision??? Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel. 9.  What’s his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy’s foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls’ hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don’t grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their little boys’ penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their little boys’ penises. 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff? Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There’s over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there. 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn’t he change aliases all the time like all trolls do? Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling aliases. 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn’t he work? Ha ha ha!  JF hasn’t worked a day in his life!  He’s an adult baby, a grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn’t trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike. 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man’s body.  Psychologically he never got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is that true? Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room. He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis. 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum! Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about. What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this. 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It’s really pathetic! 17.  Where else does he hang out? can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he’s so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking his wounds. 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn’t troll. Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it’s impossible not to troll, so he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they won’t find out what a major netkook he is. 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is! Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you’re at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to: For personal attention, you may contact Ralph Doncaster at Istop directly at And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc. *** APPENDIX *** List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it’s impossible to compile a full list. Flapping Labias … read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Misc.transport.air-industry is a moderated newsgroup. Unfortunatly, its designated moderators have all vanished and the group has been disused for quite a few years now. NNTP rules make it a tad hard to hijack such a group from "dead" people, but it has been done before. Would there be any support to get this group working again with a couple of moderators to filter out all the crud ? ( we probably would want to update the charter as well to automatically prohibit excessive cross posting, and anonymous postings that do not have explicit text in the body of the message stating that it is posted anonymously (with no forged username). Comments ?

Other than the cretin who stalks MrTravel and the enemies you make while trolling other newsgroups, you’ve worked harder than anyone else to make rec.travel.air an off-topic cesspool, JF. Why are you complaining about it now?

Response:

: Keep on rhetoricizing when you haven’t a clue! : :  And yet you’re the fool who doesn’t even realize he’s still : funding Islam and supporting their genocide of non-Islamic : peoples. Kissinger and other Washington shareholders have : supported the murder of innocent peaceful Christain Papuans for : over forty years, in exchange for a share of their gold & : copper being stolen by the Indonesian invaders. : : Good grief, another distributor of Communist propaganda. If we want that sort : of bilge, we’ll listen to NPR. In the meantime, the rest of us realize that : Communists and their dogma has been tossed into the dustbin of history. KM : — : (-:alohacyberian:-)  At my website there are 3000 live cameras or : visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect : to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all : about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ : Peaceful Tomorrows, Leftist Todays By Tom Ryan FrontPageMagazine.com | March 17, 2004 A flood of anti-Bush headlines poured across the news outlets last week like a tidal wave: "Sept. 11 Families Disgusted By Bush Campaign Ads;" "Bush Ads Using 9/11 Images Stir Anger;" "Bush Exploiting 9/11;" and "Has Bush No Shame?" Morning and evening editions of national newspapers led with the story, and the major news television networks revisited the debate every half an hour like clockwork. The controversy arose from Bush’s presidential ad campaign, which depicts brief images of the World Trade Center after the tragedy of 9/11. Colleen Kelly, who lost her brother Bill Kelly Jr. in the attacks on September 11th, told reporters, "I am afraid these ads, and others to follow, will be part of an ugly political jousting match between candidates, where one side attacks the other as somehow indifferent to the horrors of the day. President Bush can responsibly promote his ideas for confronting our threat from terrorism without overwhelming people with the very sacred images of our loved ones’ murders." Kelly continued, "It makes me sick. Would you ever go to someone’s gravesite and use that as an instrument of politics?" What Kelly did not tell the media is that she is the New York area coordinator for a group called September Eleventh Families For Peaceful Tomorrows. Peering under the veil of this media outbreak aimed at condemning the ads is this organization and a longtime leftist activist named David Fenton. The irony of Kelly’s remarks is that Peaceful Tomorrows is precisely an "instrument of politics." Peaceful Tomorrows; which is coordinated by leftwing public relations specialist David Fenton, and funded by the left grant-giving Tides Foundation; is an antiwar support organization founded by individuals who lost loved ones in the terrorist attacks of September 11th. To date, Peaceful Tomorrows is comprised of 120 family members of 9/11 victims, as well as supporters and volunteers ranging in the thousands. Formed as a supposedly nonpartisan group opposing the War on Terror, Peaceful Tomorrows has taken its message across the country and around the world, with members of the group speaking at universities, participating in the antiwar marches in Washington, D.C., and taking to the airwaves whenever a media occasion arises. Their founding mission is to "break the cycle of violence and retaliation engendered by war." However, their focus in the last week has shifted from protesting the War on Terror, to protesting the President’s recent ad campaign. Added to their lengthy r

[snip] Oh please… Why don’t you revise yourself out of existence? Adnan

Response:

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS    About JF MEZEI (Rev. Mar. 01, 2004) 1.  Who is JF Mezei? Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the longest running trolls in usenet history. ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS THEIR MESSAGES.*** If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your messages, 2.  How long has he been trolling? For well over a decade. 3.  Where does he live? Montreal, Quebec, Canada Jean-Francois Mezei 86 Harwood Gate Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 (514) 695-8259 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his ears closed while yelling "I can’t hear you, I can’t hear anything you say!" 5.  What does he troll about? His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can’t do that then he’ll just start making lewd posts. 6.  What does he hate about the USA? Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, more successful version of their country and they can’t stand it.  Some of JF’s favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc. 7.  What about his sexual trolling? Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women’s genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) … the list is endless. 8.  Circumcision??? Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel. 9.  What’s his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy’s foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls’ hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don’t grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their little boys’ penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their little boys’ penises. 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff? Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There’s over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there. 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn’t he change aliases all the time like all trolls do? Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling aliases. 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn’t he work? Ha ha ha!  JF hasn’t worked a day in his life!  He’s an adult baby, a grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn’t trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike. 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man’s body.  Psychologically he never got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is that true? Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room. He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis. 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum! Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about. What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this. 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It’s really pathetic! 17.  Where else does he hang out? can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he’s so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking his wounds. 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn’t troll. Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it’s impossible not to troll, so he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they won’t find out what a major netkook he is. 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is! Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you’re at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to: For personal attention, you may contact Ralph Doncaster at Istop directly at And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc. *** APPENDIX *** List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it’s impossible to compile a full list. … read more »

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