Question:
I killfiled him long ago. Unfortunately, my best efforts to ignore him are constantly thwarted by people following him up without including his address in their article. My kill file automatically skips any article containing any of his known addresses anywhere in the header or body of the article. At one time, almost all news software included this information in followups automatically. I could easily autoignore the idiots, cranks, and trolls. Now I can’t. Either there is a lot of news software that no longer includes the identification of the person you’re following up, or people are deleting that information from their followups. I have killfiled otherwise reasonable people who persistently responded to idiots without including the idiot’s identification in their message. I will, no doubt, be doing it again. — David Canzi "We have met the enemy, and he is us." — Pogo of Borg
Response:
Again–the following is rebuttal to Shaw’s nonsense. No useful information relating to HIV/AIDS is contained herein. And DNCB does not necessarily induce CMI. DTH does not equal CMI. Not!
It’s not the same. A DTH response is a type of cell mediated immunity toward an antigen when an antigen is present. A type IV DTH as arises from a roll in poison ivy or application of DNCB does NOT elicit a specific CMI toward any pathogens but either the hapten, the protein to which it binds. It is by no means clear that the amount of Th1 cytokines induced will tip the immune response in favor of CMI nor that this is applicable to humans, let alone those with HIV/AIDS. I have no problem with wanting to be loved! And respected, too. Then why the "activism", screaming and homophobia?
Non sequitor. I am an activist because I want to see specific things changed. I’ve done my share of screaming at NIH officials. To do clinical studies of many things that people are doing. To find out if they work or not. Which is why I’m glad the French decided to do the SPV-30 study. We know more about its effects than if you’d had your way and just had everyone say No. Now people can take it and know that the dosage is safe and the benefit will not be dramatic. Perhaps we can have the price dropped to a more reasonable level. And a ridiculous allegation. Homophobia? What evidence do you have to support this notion? If anyone is homophobic, it would appear to be you. Despite numerous requests for you to tone it down, you persist in these vile posts. Why? Frankly, I think they are more immune suppressive than a 3 gram hit of AZT. Why are you hiding your heterosexuality while disguising yourself as a gay man like Carlton Hogan? What is it with you guys besides the fact that you both became HIV-infected through injection drug use?
Carlton has never claimed to be gay. That’s ridiculous. As to the rest of you stupid questions, I’ll have to ask my boyfriend. However, civility is something that should be required. And it is illegal to slander or libel people. It isn’t slander or libel when it is true.
So it is slander and libel because your assertions that I do junk, am straight, a smackhead, a murderer, persecute you through anonymous accounts and so forth are all untrue. I have tried to be civil to Cruella, yet she knows not what that means. Cruella has been on a slander streak of her own — how soon she forgots who started this round. But what else would one expect from a pathological liar like Cruella Carter?
What slander? Cruella — my how soon you forget those phony accounts and concerted efforts to slander me and vandalize my postings!!!
Provide evidence for this false allegation. Did you really think for a second that you will disrupt MY ability to communicate my contrarian view of these horrific drug treatments!
I hope only to get you to be civil. Are you now pretending to be Jew of convenience too?
What if I were jewish? Actually, I am a devout agnostic. Cruella, you certainly have contributed to the accelerating body count with your bad medical advice and bizarre motives.
Oh, yes, I’ve been out with my pill box jamming pills down people’s throats. You obviously believe this nonsense. My motive is simple and remains pure, despite your attempts to sully it. To end AIDS. To keep my remaining friends alive. I presume we share these motives although your fixation on me seems to be deflecting your energies from more meaningful work. The crocodile tears for those with AIDS do not become you.
Now you insult my feelings about the people I have loved who have died? That is beneath contempt. It doesn’t change my tune, does it? It doesn’t convince people that you are right, does it? So what’s the point? You are the point Cruella. Your lies, your misrepresentations. You.
What lies? What misrepresentations? You make a lot of claims, all hollow. So again, I ask, what is the point? Are you fixated on me? But before they pull the trigger, try explaining how these cancer drugs are supposed to be restoring the immune systems of people with a disease of immune suppression.
You didn’t answer any of my questions at all. It doesn’t. It stops HIV temporarily. It allows the immune system to rebound a bit. But the drugs are not the complete answer. Why don’t you provide the evidence that DNCB does what you people claim it does? A) Where is the evidence it "shuts down" antibody response? B) Where is the evidence that it enhances CMI that controls HIV or any other intracellular pathogen? Deal with it Cruella!
Name calling is so childish. Your turn. George
Response:
Is it dawning on you after all these years of bashing DNCB that you were driving people away from the only treatment that activates the immune response needed to control viral load and maintain immune homeostasis without toxicity or death? The answer to your question: no. DNCB does not control viral load nor does it maintain immune homeostasis without toxicity or death. I wish it were true. And DNCB does not necessarily induce CMI. DTH does not equal CMI.
Not! I wrote… You are obnoxious in the extreme. Then Mr. Shaw replied: Excellent! I know why I’m here Cruella, don’t you? Seems as if YOU need to be loved! Poor thing. And I’ll let you in on a little secret: I have been holding back… so you will have many more enriching experiences to look forward to. Mr. Shaw claims I want to be loved and adds a threat.
No Cruella, a promise, not a threat. The impression I get from reading that is that wanting to be loved is bad or shameful.
It is misplaced, that’s all. I have no problem with wanting to be loved! And respected, too.
Then why the "activism", screaming and homophobia? Why are you hiding your heterosexuality while disguising yourself as a gay man like Carlton Hogan? What is it with you guys besides the fact that you both became HIV-infected through injection drug use? However, civility is something that should be required. And it is illegal to slander or libel people.
It isn’t slander or libel when it is true. I have tried to be civil to Cruella, yet she knows not what that means. Cruella has been on a slander streak of her own — how soon she forgots who started this round. But what else would one expect from a pathological liar like Cruella Carter? Yet Mr. Shaw asserts: Don’t you secretly love the attention? As a submissive "bottom", who loves and needs to surrender, don’t you see how you deliberately do what you do? You get bitchy and vexatious and start a cat fight with someone just so you can submit to the punishment you truly deserve — to satisfy the masocistic hunger — to fully give yourself as a "bottom"… Shaw associates shame or baseness to being a bottom and ascribes for me an armchair psychological profile. You’ve done this before, Mr. Shaw. First, being a bottom is not shameful. Tops wouldn’t get anywhere if there were no bottoms.
How would you know that? — you’re heterosexual Cruella! Second, some people enjoy abuse or are masochistic but this is not parallel to being top or bottom.
It’s a role thing, Cruella, if you were really gay you would know exactly what I mean, but you’re not — you are an imposter. The masochism — your masochism — comes from the drug thing. So you continue to attack me and others: what’s the point? Do you think you will stop me from expressing myself? Forget it.
Cruella — my how soon you forget those phony accounts and concerted efforts to slander me and vandalize my postings!!! Did you really think for a second that you will disrupt MY ability to communicate my contrarian view of these horrific drug treatments! Oy, vey, child. Yes, you can do that.
Are you now pretending to be Jew of convenience too? You’ll undoubtedly have some success in your smear campaign. People who disagree with me will laugh and crow in delight. People that don’t know me may look askance (fine: everyone should be skeptical!) Others may have doubts grow. It’s a a somewhat successful tactic–but it doesn’t stop people from dying, now does it?
Cruella, you certainly have contributed to the accelerating body count with your bad medical advice and bizarre motives. The crocodile tears for those with AIDS do not become you. It doesn’t change my tune, does it? It doesn’t convince people that you are right, does it? So what’s the point?
You are the point Cruella. Your lies, your misrepresentations. You. You will undoubtedly continue your diatribes and distortions.
Looks like Cruella keeps fanning the flames, no? By the way–I’m delighted to be read your list of people you villify. I respect all of them, have some strong disagreements with some of them and even love some of them as human beings I’ve been honored to know. I am in excellent company.
Good, then you shall all be put in front of the same firing squad for the wholesale murder of PWHs! But before they pull the trigger, try explaining how these cancer drugs are supposed to be restoring the immune systems of people with a disease of immune suppression. Deal with it Cruella! fred
Response:
Is it dawning on you after all these years of bashing DNCB that you were driving people away from the only treatment that activates the immune response needed to control viral load and maintain immune homeostasis without toxicity or death?
The answer to your question: no. DNCB does not control viral load nor does it maintain immune homeostasis without toxicity or death. I wish it were true. And DNCB does not necessarily induce CMI. DTH does not equal CMI. I wrote… You are obnoxious in the extreme.
Then Mr. Shaw replied: Excellent! I know why I’m here Cruella, don’t you? Seems as if YOU need to be loved! Poor thing. And I’ll let you in on a little secret: I have been holding back… so you will have many more enriching experiences to look forward to.
Mr. Shaw claims I want to be loved and adds a threat. The impression I get from reading that is that wanting to be loved is bad or shameful. I have no problem with wanting to be loved! And respected, too. But I don’t require it from people nor do I expect it. However, civility is something that should be required. And it is illegal to slander or libel people. Yet Mr. Shaw asserts: Don’t you secretly love the attention? As a submissive "bottom", who loves and needs to surrender, don’t you see how you deliberately do what you do? You get bitchy and vexatious and start a cat fight with someone just so you can submit to the punishment you truly deserve — to satisfy the masocistic hunger — to fully give yourself as a "bottom"…
Shaw associates shame or baseness to being a bottom and ascribes for me an armchair psychological profile. You’ve done this before, Mr. Shaw. First, being a bottom is not shameful. Tops wouldn’t get anywhere if there were no bottoms. Second, some people enjoy abuse or are masochistic but this is not parallel to being top or bottom. You appear to have some peculiar issues here I hope you are able to resolve. So you continue to attack me and others: what’s the point? Do you think you will stop me from expressing myself? Forget it. Is it all the life you’ve got to dredge the internet to find snippets to try to smear me? Oy, vey, child. Yes, you can do that. I couldn’t care less if you have every post you’ve ever written. You’ll undoubtedly have some success in your smear campaign. People who disagree with me will laugh and crow in delight. People that don’t know me may look askance (fine: everyone should be skeptical!) Others may have doubts grow. It’s a a somewhat successful tactic–but it doesn’t stop people from dying, now does it? It doesn’t change my tune, does it? It doesn’t convince people that you are right, does it? So what’s the point? You will undoubtedly continue your diatribes and distortions. And what do you expect to accomplish from all of this? It might help if you clarified your goals. George M. Carter By the way–I’m delighted to be read your list of people you villify. I respect all of them, have some strong disagreements with some of them and even love some of them as human beings I’ve been honored to know. I am in excellent company.
Response:
Question:
How can you say that Harel’s posting aren’t at least a new direction as compared to most of the listings in this group? I read this supposedly "activist" group every day and all I hear are Bush mouthpieces and regurgitations of CNN and military briefers. How original is all of that? At least 80% of the people who post to this group are "conservatives". That seems like a contradiction of terms to me. I expected to see more postings like Harel’s. Those are mostly the people who resisted the creation of the "alt" hierarchy. Funny, isn’t it ?
Most of the "conservative regurgitations" to which Mr. Cohol refers are follow-ups to articles which were posted not only to alt.activism, but to many other newsgroups. I think most people would agree that the resulting flamefests, either in alt.activism or the other affected newsgroups, have little or no persuasive value. Well, there are a small core of activists whom created this group for their own purposes, mostly to help them communicate with one another and to become acquainted with one another’s issues and concerns. It has succeeded, despite the best efforts of those whom resisted the idea of an "alt" hierarchy.
When articles are massively cross-posted, they are doing more than communicating with one another. They are communicating with the rest of the world. The rest of the world responds… — "One way or another…"
Response:
How can you say that Harel’s posting aren’t at least a new direction as compared to most of the listings in this group? I read this supposedly "activist" group every day and all I hear are Bush mouthpieces and regurgitations of CNN and military briefers. How original is all of that?
You’re right. At least Harel has the balls to print alternative press postings which the majority of people (91% of the US population as it now stands I guess) do not even see. The only problem I see with his postings now is that he has adopted a bad reputation in this group and no one who disagrees with him will probably ever read what he has to say without any pre-conceived bias. That is really too bad. I’m a little confused why this group is called "activism" anyways.
Well, there are a small core of activists whom created this group for their own purposes, mostly to help them communicate with one another and to become acquainted with one another’s issues and concerns. It has succeeded, despite the best efforts of those whom resisted the idea of an "alt" hierarchy. At least 80% of the people who post to this group are "conservatives". That seems like a contradiction of terms to me. I expected to see more postings like Harel’s.
Those are mostly the people who resisted the creation of the "alt" hierarchy. Funny, isn’t it ? — richard — Creating a KILL file is the seed of censorship.
Response:
Question:
The following is a overly long essay on my recent backpack trip to a too narrow strip of protected rain forest along the rocky, wet and wild Washington Coast. One can base camp and do day trips as we did, or backpack the whole 25 mile coast. Either way is a memorable trip. Many people would think one crazy to head for the beach in the middle of winter (spelled cold-rainy-season) here in Washington, but for me it’s one of the best times. No people. No sunburn. No bugs. Just endless miles of mist, rain, wind and ever shifting tides lines. The storms are awesome, blowing in from the Pacific almost gale force. All that power and beauty and none of it man-made or controlled. It’s great therapy for an over-involved anti-war activist with a bad case of why-are-we-destroying-the-earth burnout. It also helps to lesson the pain when the mountains have taken one of your dear friends for no apparent reason, other than it was due. Thursday am.m.: This day begins in a frantic rush to pick up a borrowed tent, meet my ferry, drive to Port Townsend and pick up my friend Tony at his ferry. Which he missed, so I wait in a cafe by the water where I begin to slow down a bit. Finaly, his ferry arrives and we make a pact not to talk about the war or our activism for the whole of the trip. We succeed on the war, but it proves impossible to remain silent about the war on the environment as we drive out 101 to Lake Ozette. Passing through mile after mile of seemingly endless clear-cuts. No selective cutting here. Just rape it, scrape it and leave the trash behind. Years old clear-cuts with no evidence of restoration. Nothing but slash piles. This is one of the downsides of backpacking, climbing or skiing in the "wilderness", here in the Pacific Northwest. There is simply no way you can get into the backcountry without first traveling through the death camps of the logging industry. The Olympic Peninsula is particularly depressing. Those of us who live out here know that all those white places on the topo maps mean clear cut forest — not open fields. But, back to the trip report. We arrive to no other cars in the parking lot. This is looking good. A quick 3 mile hike on the boardwalk, out to the beach. Set up camp out on a point within viewing distance of a bald eagle family. 3 immatures and 2 matures soar back and forth over us. Scoping out the tide line and us. One of the immatures will stay within soaring range of us for most of the weekend. It is only 2 days later, as more parties show up, that the eagles disappear. My visions of a huge bon fire are quickly deflated by the reality of several months of rain. The coastline is flooded with driftwood. Massive cedar, oak, hemlock, fir.. But it is all soaked through. We discuss the ethics of using fuel. (Yes I admit to being the one who wants to torch it.) Tony will not waste the fuel for this luxury. So, instead he proceeds to build a small, very smokey, Indian fire and nurses it along most of the evening. He managed to get some flames for awhile but finally admits defeat. (I bribe him to give up with large helpings of cheese smothered hashbrowns and little sausages.) Ahhh. At least *my* pack will be several pounds lighter. A raccoon family shows up to see what they can steal. One old guy is bold enough to attempt a snatch and run on a bag of food, not 20 inches from me. We end up throwing rocks at them (lightly) to convince them that we are not some of those soft tourist types. We bring everything into the tent. The rain starts in earnest and the wind. The surf is crashing on both sides of the point. About 1 am I awaken to the roar of the incoming tide. Swells are probably 6-8 feet. I don’t sleep well but it doesn’t matter. Friday: Well, it’s raining pretty hard. The tide has gone back out and the sea gulls are hunting in the pools left behind. We decide to put the vestibule on to the tent, since we seem to be taking on water fairly rapidly around the entry. Neither one of us has ever used one of these before. (Fortunately, Richard has included the directions, else it might never have happened. ) But now we have taken so long that the tide is comming back in and we can’t hike on the beach. Instead, we head south, driftwood hoping, looking for a stream. We are joined by several black tail deer, who seem to say.. "we are not afraid of you, this is a national park" They feed right beside us. We are forced to walk around a pair at one point. They look pretty healthy. Our eagle sentry is soaring above. Ranging up and down the coast and into the tree line always comming back as if to make sure we are still there. After a nap at the tent, the tide has gone back out enough to head north to Cape Alava. We decide take day packs and come back here for the night. More deer, our sentry and various sea birds accompany us. We sight a family of seal out on a rock, just past the tide line. They seem content to climb back up onto the rocks after waves wash them off. We stop and examine some petroglyphs. I don’t know how old they are, but seem very primative. Round eskimo type faces, several whales, a hunter with harpoon. It is supposed to be a place where early Americans prayed for successful hunts. It does seem a powerful place. The rain forest stands right up to the cliff edge. The rocks below, which we are on stand sentinel to the crashing life giving/taking waves of ocean. We get back just as the last twighlight gives way to darkness. I am relieved, not wanting to scramble on these wet, slippery rocks in the dark. We cook salmon feticini huddled together against the wind, talking late into the night about those things humans ponder on, while visiting wild places. I wake only once when the tide comes roaring in, now a comforting sound. Saturday: Up early. Breakfast in the tent, watching the dark grow to ever lighter shades of gray. A heavy mist today. A wonderful day to head south to the Yellow Bank Cliffs. We amble along sighting many a deer, a few coons; our sentinel. Three different kind of hawks. One, a blueish grey, fairly large hawk; sits on a large driftroot, watching us, yet seemingly unintimidated. We stand transfixed by this marvelous creature. Then, I fall off the log and it flys away. The tide is coming in and we are getting into a narrow band of rock cliffs, which extend into the crashing surf. We must now climb higher between the swells to keep our feet dry. I begin to look for escape routes. I do not want to get trapped along this stretch of vertical cliff band, which is separated from the deepening surf only by slimy piles of drift logs. I am more comfortable on the rocks than Tony. I try to show off my climbing skills a little. Finally, we are trapped. We can no longer safely navigate the rocks and beach, so must go up. But where? No longer rocks, these are intimidating clay cliffs, just off vertical. I try stubornly keep to rocks, though they are wet with sea barf. Tony bales upward, using sea grass and roots for hand holds. I fall about 10 feet onto my back. Get soaked and humbled enough to head for the vegetable route. I’m scared, but I’m not going to admit it. We are now about 60 feet up the clay-grass face. I judge it to be about 5.7 in difficulty. Exposure is heightened by the rocks and crashing surf below. At 80 feet we gain the ridge. I grab hold of a nice, solidly rooted tree and grin. Tony will never know how bad my legs where shaking. We traverse along a knife edge ridge, that runs between two deep eroded drainages. Upward into the rain forest. We pass by many granddaddy spruce, some blown down but stubornly living on. I stop to touch the bark of a particularly ancient fellow. I am deeply moved. We find a large burned out trunk of an ancient spruce, jutting out from the top of the cliffs. We sit here, drink wine and watch a mighty storm brew out over the waves. The tide brings massive swells 100′ below. I count about fifty different species of lichen, fungi, grass, creeper and other unknown plants in a 2 foot square area by my feet. The reality of 10,000 species being destroyed with each acre of Amazon rainforest burned comes home hard. We decide to bushwack back through the rainforest. Tony suggests after my many crashing falls, that we *try* to see how quietly we can move through the forest. My stealth is often punctuated by squeals of hysterical laughter, as I repeatedly punch through the undercover, unknown feet deep in living biomass. We are passing through what must be an old burn. It is almost purely made up of hemlocks. Most are about 40 years old. There are a very few very old (200 year ?) spruce here and there, the ancestral cover. Finally, as it grows closer to twighlight we look for a drainage to climb back down to the beach. Besides, we have drank all the wine and our supply is back at camp. We talk of our favorite Abbey books and monkeywrenching and of the 5 spotted owls killed and nailed to trees in the past months. We build a big fire tonight. Some people come over and join us. They work for the war machine and I am having trouble understanding why they are here. They seem angry at the rain and cold. I talk about the destruction of water sheds from logging. They don’t see the problem. We retire to the tent and read by candlelight. Sunday: Today, I climb up onto a 50 foot rock mound off shore. The tide is way out and I sit alone up there, grounded by the wind, the rain and the smells. It is a truly wild and magical place. I don’t want to leave here and as always with such trips, the last day is a quiet and reflective one. As we pack up, we are blessed by sunlight streaking down upon the water. A glowing, red, green and yellow rainbow forms from the mound I have just
… read more »
Response:
Renee, I enjoyed your story and your writing style…until you got to this: Some people come over and join us. They work for the war machine and I am having trouble understanding why they are here. They seem angry at the rain and cold. I talk about the destruction of water sheds from logging. They don’t see the problem.
The implication is that anyone who works for the war machine [your words, not mine] can’t appreciate the wilderness. These kinds of stereotypes are unfounded. Perhaps the greatest barrier to understanding others is that we tend to hang out with people we agree with rather than try to associate with those of other persuasions. — 180 New Montgomery, Room 600, San Francisco, CA 94105 Voice: (415) 542-2735 ***ALL DISCLAIMERS APPLY!!***
Response: