Filed under: Activist Activism
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Note that she was killed because of the violence against women rather than because of her activism. These men raped her and then became angry because they felt that they might be endangered by their act of violence against her. So what the hell is the difference, Moira? The initial act of violence was that of rape. The murder was ancilliary to the rape. With "punishment" for her AIDS activism there would have been no rape. You are an incredible liar and communist, That I’m a liar and/or a communist is incredible. is my conclusion while reading your posts. I note you are incapable of drawing rational conclusions in addition to not understanding simple concepts even after they have been carefully explained. Why don’t you only fuck-off to Harare? I have been to Harare several times, including this month. However, I was born and bred in Johannesburg where I continue to live. Klaas Jan Van Der Merwe Poggenpoel Moira, the Faerie Godmother
I confronted my racism for the first time as a small child when my father beat me for being rude to an adult black man, or maybe the first time was when I didn’t want to play with our domestic worker’s child, brought to our home for the Christmas holidays, or maybe for the first time when I didn’t want to play with the children on the farm who didn’t happen to be white, or maybe the first time was when I was walking with our nanny in an area of Johannesburg and I realised I was the only white child there and there were no white adults. I clearly remember walking over the railway bridge in Doornfontein, which bridge happened to be between school from which my nanny fetched me every day and home and having to walk over the "non-European" bridge and hating that. Maybe that was my first confrontation with my own racism. etc…. In reading this Moira, you somehow succeeded in convincing me, that only maybe, I saw you in the wrong light. (Or with the wrong eyes of course:-) I’ll read you again… (sometimes only:-) absolutely the same Klaas Jan Van Der Merwe Poggenpoel
Response:
Note that she was killed because of the violence against women rather than because of her activism. These men raped her and then became angry because they felt that they might be endangered by their act of violence against her. So what the hell is the difference, Moira?
The initial act of violence was that of rape. The murder was ancilliary to the rape. With "punishment" for her AIDS activism there would have been no rape. You are an incredible liar and communist,
That I’m a liar and/or a communist is incredible. is my conclusion while reading your posts.
I note you are incapable of drawing rational conclusions in addition to not understanding simple concepts even after they have been carefully explained. Why don’t you only fuck-off to Harare?
I have been to Harare several times, including this month. However, I was born and bred in Johannesburg where I continue to live. Klaas Jan Van Der Merwe Poggenpoel
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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Note that she was killed because of the violence against women rather than because of her activism. These men raped her and then became angry because they felt that they might be endangered by their act of violence against her. Moira, the Faerie Godmother
So what the hell is the difference, Moira? You are an incredible liar and communist, is my conclusion while reading your posts. Why don’t you only fuck-off to Harare? Klaas Jan Van Der Merwe Poggenpoel
Response:
HIV positive activist raped, killed PTI Sunday, December 21, 2003 Durban – In a shocking incident, a South African AIDS activist was gang-raped and later beaten to death after she told the rapists that she was HIV positive .
Note that she was killed because of the violence against women rather than because of her activism. These men raped her and then became angry because they felt that they might be endangered by their act of violence against her. Now the truth is that, either way, Lorna Mlosana, is dead. However, she was not killed because of her HIV activism, although her HIV positive status played a role in her death. The murder is also the second such incident in four years. In 1999, a Durban AIDS activist, Gugu Dlamini, was stabbed by a group of young men in the local township of KwaMashu after she revealed at a meeting that she was HIV positive.
The incidents are slightly different in concept, but both are indicative that prejudice about HIV kills. Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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HIV positive activist raped, killed PTI Sunday, December 21, 2003 Durban – In a shocking incident, a South African AIDS activist was gang-raped and later beaten to death after she told the rapists that she was HIV positive . The horrific incident took place outside a tavern in the township of Khayelitsha in Cape Town where the 21- year-old Lorna Mlosana was sitting with a friend. When Mlosana, an activist for the AIDS pressure group Treatment Action Campaign(TAC), went to the tavern toilet she was followed by five men. The men overpowered and took turns in raping her, police said. When the friend tried to rescue her, she was also severely beaten up. A spokesperson for TAC, Vuyiseka Bubula, said the men became angry after Mlosana told them that she was HIV positive and that they would contract the disease. "The men then went beserk and began beating her up. They ran away from the tavern after they realised that they had killed Mlosana," she said. Police said they were following leads and would make arrests soon. The murder of the AIDS activist comes only a few days after the Government’s official 16-day campaign against violence against women and children was launched. The murder is also the second such incident in four years. In 1999, a Durban AIDS activist, Gugu Dlamini, was stabbed by a group of young men in the local township of KwaMashu after she revealed at a meeting that she was HIV positive. More at: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/372459.cms Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org The truth about Islam and Muslims http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works. o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read, considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number. o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are not necessarily those of the poster.
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Question:
Neville Chamberlain – the "peace in our time" man. So wrought with his own perception of peace, that he would, and did, go to any lengths to maintain it. And, his paper waving scene at the airport, has been replayed many times (Something similar to asking the UN if it’s OK to deal with individuals or states that attack you.) Well, for his vision, and hard work, and diplomacy (although the Czechs might have a hard time swallowing that word), he didn’t prevent zip. In fact, he got booted out of office, only because the country he led was democractic, and, to top it off, he was so haggard, worn and dis-illusioned about not having the courage, or foresight, to make a stand when a stand was demanded, that he died very soon after. The cause of death was not heart attack, cancer or anything the medical profession could clearly point to, other than, possibly a broken heart. As the Jews of Auschwitz what the UN was, or should I say wasn’t doing, during WWII. Great humanitarians and peace keepers, like Chamberlain, but lousy peace makers – like Chamberlain.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just updated: Progressive news and commentary site ALL FACTS & OPINIONS! Liberators, my eye; Amnesty says both Bush and Hussein may be war criminals; Trouble in the Empire?; Bush fiddles with the economy while Baghdad burns; SCOTUS hears Texas sodomy case; Rock on, John Conyers!; Opposition Research: False Prophets in Action; Bush takes a cue from horrid history; Prayers for the innocents, for the human shields; Prayers for the souls of all the soldiers; Remembering Pat Moynihan & Rachel Corrie; News from around the Big Blue Marble; WAR IS ON. RESIST! PROTEST!; Share your comments with AF&O readers!; FREE STUFF!!! FREE STUFF!!!; There is much to read and learn and do… STAND FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE FOR ALL! ALL FACTS & OPINIONS http://gratefuldread.net/fando/ "In war, whichever side may call itself the victor, there are no winners, but all are losers." — Neville Chamberlain TAKE RISKS FOR PEACE!, Natalie Davis Nationwide dialup that saves $$$ *and* helps the effort to make positive change! http://www.netfocus.net/affiliate/armchair/default.htm All Facts & Opinions – Progressive News & Commentary – http://gratefuldread.net/fando The Armchair Activist & Armchair Activism GLBT – http://www.armchair-activist.org BE PART OF THE SOLUTION! Webmasters: Check out FREE content for your site!
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Just updated: Progressive news and commentary site ALL FACTS & OPINIONS! Liberators, my eye; Amnesty says both Bush and Hussein may be war criminals; Trouble in the Empire?; Bush fiddles with the economy while Baghdad burns; SCOTUS hears Texas sodomy case; Rock on, John Conyers!; Opposition Research: False Prophets in Action; Bush takes a cue from horrid history; Prayers for the innocents, for the human shields; Prayers for the souls of all the soldiers; Remembering Pat Moynihan & Rachel Corrie; News from around the Big Blue Marble; WAR IS ON. RESIST! PROTEST!; Share your comments with AF&O readers!; FREE STUFF!!! FREE STUFF!!!; There is much to read and learn and do… STAND FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE FOR ALL! ALL FACTS & OPINIONS http://gratefuldread.net/fando/ "In war, whichever side may call itself the victor, there are no winners, but all are losers." — Neville Chamberlain TAKE RISKS FOR PEACE!, Natalie Davis Nationwide dialup that saves $$$ *and* helps the effort to make positive change! http://www.netfocus.net/affiliate/armchair/default.htm All Facts & Opinions – Progressive News & Commentary – http://gratefuldread.net/fando The Armchair Activist & Armchair Activism GLBT – http://www.armchair-activist.org BE PART OF THE SOLUTION! Webmasters: Check out FREE content for your site!
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Question:
Seeking Witness & Documentation Of Anti-Gay Abuse During War Hello, I am gathering information regarding the abuse of gay American soldiers during wartime (WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc), by their own hetero "comrades in arms". Examples would be: setting up a gay soldier to be killed by the enemy, or friendly fire. And other (less morbid) forms of physical and verbal abuse. Anyone can send me an account of their personal witness, anonymously. I already have documented one account of a gay marine being pushed overboard to his death during the Vietnam "crisis"…which was written up as an "accident" because he was supposedly drunk, and slipped over the rail. That is what I want: real evidence of serious abuse, nothing petty like pissing into someone’s coffee, or slipping a bible under a pillow. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. I don’t care what color or gender these brave Thracians (my word for gay warriors) were, either. And, while I’m at it, I invite anyone to visit the following web page of one of our most heroic, decorated soldiers during the Vietnam war (Randolph Louis Taylor)…and, he’s also gay…and became a gay activist after returning home. Some of us older folks may remember the news coverage of his valiant 40-day fast in 1984, in a desperate attempt to have Nam Vet representation in the form of a 15-minute speech at the S.F. Democratic Convention. (He seemed to have finally "won" after almost starving to death…but at the very last moment, was betrayed by the Democratic Party, not by democrats.) Later in Jan. 1985, he shot himself at "The Wall", and survived the ordeal. (Most likely cause was mismedication by doctors at the hospital, and medical neglect…which exacerbated a deep depression for which he sought some help…and again, was betrayed.) I flew out to stand by his side at the VAMC, to assist a rapid recovery. This made the national news, too. (For him, not me.) Here’s the URL: The Somalian Affair http://gay-bible.0catch.com/somalia/index_somalia.htm The reason "Somalia" is in the title, is because I honored my buddy’s memory by supporting our soldiers in Somala in 1992…by sending news articles about him, and letters from him in a gift packet (that also contained other articles, letters, and decals relating to my own activism, and the gay/military issue). P.S.: I have already posted this request to all relevant military newsgroups. — Lavender-Velvet Revolution http://surf.to/gaybible
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I can see it now, a History Channel exclusive, "Fudge Packers of the 101st Air Born, the Flaming Fighters". Who cares, really who cares?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seeking Witness & Documentation Of Anti-Gay Abuse During War Hello, I am gathering information regarding the abuse of gay American soldiers during wartime (WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc), by their own hetero "comrades in arms". Examples would be: setting up a gay soldier to be killed by the enemy, or friendly fire. And other (less morbid) forms of physical and verbal abuse. Anyone can send me an account of their personal witness, anonymously. I already have documented one account of a gay marine being pushed overboard to his death during the Vietnam "crisis"…which was written up as an "accident" because he was supposedly drunk, and slipped over the rail. That is what I want: real evidence of serious abuse, nothing petty like pissing into someone’s coffee, or slipping a bible under a pillow. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. I don’t care what color or gender these brave Thracians (my word for gay warriors) were, either. And, while I’m at it, I invite anyone to visit the following web page of one of our most heroic, decorated soldiers during the Vietnam war (Randolph Louis Taylor)…and, he’s also gay…and became a gay activist after returning home. Some of us older folks may remember the news coverage of his valiant 40-day fast in 1984, in a desperate attempt to have Nam Vet representation in the form of a 15-minute speech at the S.F. Democratic Convention. (He seemed to have finally "won" after almost starving to death…but at the very last moment, was betrayed by the Democratic Party, not by democrats.) Later in Jan. 1985, he shot himself at "The Wall", and survived the ordeal. (Most likely cause was mismedication by doctors at the hospital, and medical neglect…which exacerbated a deep depression for which he sought some help…and again, was betrayed.) I flew out to stand by his side at the VAMC, to assist a rapid recovery. This made the national news, too. (For him, not me.) Here’s the URL: The Somalian Affair http://gay-bible.0catch.com/somalia/index_somalia.htm The reason "Somalia" is in the title, is because I honored my buddy’s memory by supporting our soldiers in Somala in 1992…by sending news articles about him, and letters from him in a gift packet (that also contained other articles, letters, and decals relating to my own activism, and the gay/military issue). P.S.: I have already posted this request to all relevant military newsgroups. — Lavender-Velvet Revolution http://surf.to/gaybible
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Question:
NormC <no…@socal.rr.com> wrote: > Ah!, another activist.
More an inactivist. Too many years of being a couch potato in front of my computer and TV. ;-)> Ross Bernheim
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Tom Devlin <tomdev…@ameritech.net> wrote: > >Tom, got any references to those studies? I am interested in them. > Here’s the most recent one I know of, there’s a link to the full text > (in PDF format) at the bottom. > http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/news/Apnea_Cost_Justification.htm > >I would like to use them as ammuniton to get a little more liberal policy > >from my HMO and insurance company towards better masks and heated > >humidifers as standard. > Be sure to include the following, it shows how much heated humidifiers > can help. > http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/disorders/apnea/Humid/Study_1.htm
Thanks, it is getting a bit late right now and about time to hit the sack with CPAP. So I will check them out tomorrow. Ross Bernheim
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On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:42:58 -0500, "*Bob.Gootee" <rgootee12743…@comcast.net> wrote: >On the up side, if you are a Star Wars fan, you sound like Darth Vader >when you try to talk with the CPAP on.
My mother (who I think is the only person who has ever tried to talk to me with the CPAP on, although other family member may have) have figured out that I don’t even try.
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Carmelita52bc00 wrote: > >Have you talked this over with your husband? > Yes, I talked to him. He’s all for it if it works. I’ve gotten my whole family > involved. I sent them the sites you all sent me and they are glad and > antisapating good result. My husband is the only one that won’t look at the > sites. I printed out those sites and will show them to him tonight. > I am hoping for the best from him.And just maybe this will remove alot of > strain from in are marriage and we can begin to work out the other problems we > have. > I’m glad I found this place. I’ve been here just a short while and already > I feel a friendship with many of you. > Carmen
Carmen, Keep us informed on any problems you might have no mater how trivial you think they might be. Try to relax and in a year you can look back and smile about it 
Don’t worry if you have problems, most of us have had some or all of them and we can help work them out. On the up side, if you are a Star Wars fan, you sound like Darth Vader when you try to talk with the CPAP on. — Bob Any time you are feeling stupid, any time you are feeling foolish, remember: Someone, somewhere, is opening an attachment. news.newusers.questions Moderation Team Worker
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ross…@mindspring.com (Ross Bernheim) wrote: >> Sleep apnea puts a real strain on your body’s resources. I’ve seen >> studies that compared medical costs for treated and untreated apnea >> sufferers. The differences were astonishing, we Hoover Heads needed >> _far_ less "doctoring" than our untreated counterparts. >Tom, got any references to those studies? I am interested in them.
Here’s the most recent one I know of, there’s a link to the full text (in PDF format) at the bottom. http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/news/Apnea_Cost_Justification.htm >I would like to use them as ammuniton to get a little more liberal policy >from my HMO and insurance company towards better masks and heated >humidifers as standard.
Be sure to include the following, it shows how much heated humidifiers can help. http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/disorders/apnea/Humid/Study_1.htm Tom
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Ross Bernheim wrote: > Tom Devlin <tomdev…@ameritech.net> wrote: > > Sleep apnea puts a real strain on your body’s resources. I’ve seen > > studies that compared medical costs for treated and untreated apnea > > sufferers. The differences were astonishing, we Hoover Heads needed > > _far_ less "doctoring" than our untreated counterparts. > Tom, got any references to those studies? I am interested in them. I > would like to use them as ammuniton to get a little more liberal policy > from my HMO and insurance company towards better masks and heated > humidifers as standard.
Ah!, another activist. Please keep us up-to-date. There have been a number of good ideas related to activism here on the NG. If I had been getting some quality sleep the last 3-4 months, I would try to offer some suggesions, but I just can’t focus at the present time.
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Tom Devlin <tomdev…@ameritech.net> wrote: > Sleep apnea puts a real strain on your body’s resources. I’ve seen > studies that compared medical costs for treated and untreated apnea > sufferers. The differences were astonishing, we Hoover Heads needed > _far_ less "doctoring" than our untreated counterparts.
Tom, got any references to those studies? I am interested in them. I would like to use them as ammuniton to get a little more liberal policy from my HMO and insurance company towards better masks and heated humidifers as standard. Ross Bernheim
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carmelita52b…@aol.com (Carmelita52bc00) wrote: >>Have you talked this over with your husband? >Yes, I talked to him. He’s all for it if it works.
Great! >I’ve gotten my whole family involved.
Even better! Support is at least half the battle, and you have both family and all of us pulling for you. I’m sure you’ll do fine. >I sent them the sites you all sent me and they are glad and >antisapating good result. My husband is the only one that won’t look at the >sites. I printed out those sites and will show them to him tonight.
Face it, not everybody finds masks and blowers as fascinating as we do. Even Jane, who’s probably an even bigger CPAP fan than I am, tends to "tune out" when I try to discuss the finer points of various pieces of the gear. <g> > I am hoping for the best from him.And just maybe this will remove alot of >strain from in are marriage and we can begin to work out the other problems we >have.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised, things sure changed for the better around here after I was treated. > I’m glad I found this place. I’ve been here just a short while and already >I feel a friendship with many of you.
Yeah, it’s an awfully good group. And we keep attracting the nicest people. Tom
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>Have you talked this over with your husband?
Yes, I talked to him. He’s all for it if it works. I’ve gotten my whole family involved. I sent them the sites you all sent me and they are glad and antisapating good result. My husband is the only one that won’t look at the sites. I printed out those sites and will show them to him tonight. I am hoping for the best from him.And just maybe this will remove alot of strain from in are marriage and we can begin to work out the other problems we have. I’m glad I found this place. I’ve been here just a short while and already I feel a friendship with many of you. Carmen
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Carmelita52bc00 wrote: > >Have you talked this over with your husband? > Yes, I talked to him. He’s all for it if it works. I’ve gotten my whole family > involved. I sent them the sites you all sent me and they are glad and > antisapating good result. My husband is the only one that won’t look at the > sites. I printed out those sites and will show them to him tonight.
He might never admit to it, but possibly he could be afraid that what he might learn is worse than being ignorant of the problem. Maybe he is already frightened that this illness is one that may be deadlier than than he wants to believe and then"what would he do if he lost you?" There are a lot of people in the world that will not discuss things like like that because just thinking about it makes them fearful it will happen. Maybe, possibly, if you phrased the request along the lines of, "Honey, I’m having trouble deciding which choice of <fill in the blank, CPAP, Bi-PAP, Masks> will work best to manage my Sleep Apnea, what do you think about this one? > I am hoping for the best from him.And just maybe this will remove alot of > strain from in are marriage and we can begin to work out the other problems we > have. > I’m glad I found this place. I’ve been here just a short while and already > I feel a friendship with many of you. > Carmen
Yeah, they are all a good gang – just keep in mind that sometimes our sense of humor is a little bit off now and then, because we had an occasional bad night’s sleep. — Magesteff -Freedom is not about tolerating what one accepts; it’s about tolerating what is unacceptable. – Robert Uhl ——————————————————– Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,
Question:
The sisters’ activism was stoked by their late brother, Ron, who spent years in Guatemala and El Salvador in the 1980s and recounted in letters to them the slaughter of native peoples by military death squads. He had also befriended Bishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador, who was assassinated. Several military leaders later implicated in the death squads received training at the School of the Americas. From Reuters, 6/26/01: http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20010626_257.html Elderly Iowa Nuns Trading Habits for Prison Stripes DUBUQUE, Iowa (Reuters) – Two elderly Franciscan nuns prepared on Tuesday to discard their habits and don prison garb for protesting at a U.S. military base that trained Central American soldiers later implicated in death squads. Sister Dorothy Marie Hennessey, 88, and Sister Gwen Hennessey, 68, who are also siblings, awaited a letter from federal prison authorities telling them to report to a nearby Illinois prison where they will spend six months for trespassing last November at the former School of the Americas, the U.S.-run training facility at Fort Benning in Columbus, Georgia. The two activist nuns, from an Iowa farm family of 15 children, have been told they can keep only their eyeglasses in prison, though Sister Dorothy Marie said she hopes she can retain her hearing aids and medications. She refused a judge’s offer to spend her sentence under house arrest. "I’m not an invalid," the stoop-shouldered nun told the judge. "People are saying, in a funny way, ‘The streets will certainly be safer with these two off the streets,"’ said Judy Haley Giesen, communications director at the Sisters of St. Francis of the Holy Family, a convent and retirement home for 425 nuns in Dubuque. The Hennessey sisters were among 3,500 protesters who marched onto the grounds of the base holding crosses bearing the names of slain victims of Central American death squads. They and other demonstrators who had already been slapped with warning letters banning them from the base were prosecuted, including a 76-year-old Des Moines, Iowa, woman. On Tuesday, the nuns fielded questions from network television crews that disrupted the normally quiet convent, where an activist streak is illustrated by a sign declaring it a "nuclear-free zone." Sister Gwen, who just celebrated her 50th anniversary as a nun, said the two expected to receive notices any day and hoped to join nine fellow-protesters at the penitentiary in Pekin, Illinois, where they planned to counsel other inmates. Though this will be Sister Dorothy Marie’s first serious brush with the law, she marched across the United States to protest the Cold War arms buildup while in her 70s. The sisters’ activism was stoked by their late brother, Ron, who spent years in Guatemala and El Salvador in the 1980s and recounted in letters to them the slaughter of native peoples by military death squads. He had also befriended Bishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador, who was assassinated. Several military leaders later implicated in the death squads received training at the School of the Americas. Harry
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[nothing]
Typical misrepresentation. They’re going to jail for trespassing. —
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[nothing] Typical misrepresentation. They’re going to jail for trespassing.
But why were they trespassing (that is such a convenient charge and so flexible)? Could it be that they had real cause like beCAUSE of daddy bush’s dirty tricks in central America which resulted in the murders of several of their sisters ????? Bert ~~ you carefully deleted Harry’s message so that we cannot judge what you call "[nothing]" and "typical misrepresentation". Why should we believe you? I know Harry and I know that he is not prone to "misrepresentation". So I and others must disbelieve anything you say. You have seriously damaged any credibility you might have had. :~) In Politics, Moderation Is The Best Policy
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@espmail.com: Bert ~~ you carefully deleted Harry’s message so that we cannot judge what you call "[nothing]" and "typical misrepresentation".
Something wrong with your newsreader such that you couldn’t read the pilfered newspaper article that "Harry" posted? Why would anybody want me to include the complete text of someone else’s article that they just read? You could just go buy a newspaper or look in an online source for the original, you know. The group known as "Harry" never writes anything original, but "Harry" has been known to make changes to the stuff he posts. —
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With all do respect, gentlemen but you are discussing little and insignificant details. What should be changed is not how and when they perform a specific test but rather the system as a whole which currently is nothing but a mass murder industry which – like any criminal structure – gives no damn about anything but cash. People go into medical profession for money, patients’ well being is secondary at the best. Doctors fight insurance not for your benefit but to grab the bigger piece of the pie. In other words, whoever wins it’s not the patient. Only universal health care system can change it. And even when it is adopted, the process will take years if not decades and millions of directly or indirectly killed innocent people whose only fault is inability to satisfy unlimited greed of doctors and insurance companies. Now, I’ve heard the following argument plenty of times: "How can you say that doctors don’t care about their patients?!?". I’m terribly sorry but it’s a dumb point. Let me remind you about Dr. Gebbels or KGB doctors, etc. If you think they spent $400 mil. to kill Clinton’s health care plan just to make patients happy, try to get a procedure your insurance (if you have one) does not cover and you cannot afford to pay for out of your pocket. Where does the doctor’ care go? You will be either (most likely) denied care or – if the doctor is not busy – it will be performed but after that your family will be kicked out of the house. Don’t believe me - try some day. Wake up people! Economic fascism is not much different from political fascism and health care/insurance alliance is a vital part of both. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [nothing] Typical misrepresentation. They’re going to jail for trespassing. But why were they trespassing (that is such a convenient charge and so flexible)? Could it be that they had real cause like beCAUSE of daddy bush’s dirty tricks in central America which resulted in the murders of several of their sisters ????? Bert ~~ you carefully deleted Harry’s message so that we cannot judge what you call "[nothing]" and "typical misrepresentation". Why should we believe you? I know Harry and I know that he is not prone to "misrepresentation". So I and others must disbelieve anything you say. You have seriously damaged any credibility you might have had. :~) In Politics, Moderation Is The Best Policy
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Why should we believe you? I know Harry and I know that he is not prone to "misrepresentation".
Sorry, but I didn’t see alt.comedy in the headers. :O|
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You can`t stop what has happened in the past, but you can certainly stop what happens now so that it won`t happen again in the future. Why don`t you call it what it really is…..genocide. I think the Serb command learned well from the Nazi`s. Sometimes if you want to protect life, you have to be willing to fight and sometimes die for it. Many do not see it that way and "evil" counts on that. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.
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The term ‘ethnic cleansing’ was created in 1990 when the Serbian government hired a Madison Avenue advertising firm, which created it. Makes genocide more palatable to the American people.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regarding "Ethnic Cleansing," it is an Orwellian newspeak term that means nothing. It did not exist as a term of art before the 1990’s, Signals should go up, and bells should ring anytime anyone comes across this phrase–questions should be asked. The first one should be, who came up with this phrase? Wasn’t it Radovan Karadzic? No it wasn’t. There were may others long before this. Does the Ethnic Cleansing of Native Americans ring a bell? JOIN THE ACTIVIST MAILING LIST * The Activist * http://get.to/activist This is not about the world that we inherited from our forefathers, It is about the world we have borrowed from our children !!
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Yes, of course, sara. ETHNIC CLEANSING is doubleplusbad and cannot be tolerated in today’s ever-contracting world. We must do all we can to unaccept such serious infractions against humanity and focus upon cultivating a regional environment which will more accurately reflect our values. Lynette —
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go soak your head
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, of course, sara. ETHNIC CLEANSING is doubleplusbad and cannot be tolerated in today’s ever-contracting world. We must do all we can to unaccept such serious infractions against humanity and focus upon cultivating a regional environment which will more accurately reflect our values.
Cut that out, Lynette. You’re WAAAAYYYY too good at it, and you’re scaring me. Lynette —
_ Rob
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, of course, sara. ETHNIC CLEANSING is doubleplusbad and cannot be tolerated in today’s ever-contracting world. We must do all we can to unaccept such serious infractions against humanity and focus upon cultivating a regional environment which will more accurately reflect our values. Cut that out, Lynette. You’re WAAAAYYYY too good at it, and you’re scaring me. Lynette — _ Rob
Me too.. Nick
Response:
Perhaps I’m just being cynical here, but while I can at least *sympathize* with your viewpoint, your method of delivery seems to be in need of some work. First free hint: avoid redundancies. Joe Krolikowski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Response:
Regarding "Ethnic Cleansing," it is an Orwellian newspeak term that means nothing. It did not exist as a term of art before the 1990’s, and was especially created for the sole purpose of Serb demonization. There is no literature in the history of the world where this term is used before the 1990’s–period. Writers at this moment are re-writing history incorporating this term of art, "Ethnic Cleansing" to past events. As in, "the Jews were ethnically cleansed by the Nazis," or "the Armenians were ethnically cleansed by the Turks." Our history books, encyclopedias, novels, etc, in the next few years will all incorporate this general purpose term. This currently fashionable trend in literature, to use the term "Ethnic Cleansing" does a dis-service to the truth in history by reducing tragic past events (murder, assasination, genocide..,) to a simple minded catch phrase. It is the jingoistic catch phrase of the 1990’s, and will be specifically used as a literary instrument in the justification of contemporary western political/militaristic policy. Signals should go up, and bells should ring anytime anyone comes across this phrase–questions should be asked.
Response:
I don’t even think the powers that be in Washington. London, and Brussles know that Montenegro exists and that would be sad if they don’t.
The powers that be in Washington, London, and Brussels don’t plan ahead and they don’t learn from history. The nerf world, with its poll driven, short attention span has precisely the government it deserves. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to pay the high price of their ineptitude. Pompous half-wits like Blair and Albright, being carted around in armored limos with white-gloved lackeys in tow, make me ill. Madeline Albright is happier than a pig in slime. She’s exhilerated. Truly radiant! Really feels she’s on a dream date with destiny. The dithering twit Blair jumped in like this was going to be a game of lawn tennis. He figured on getting his shoes dirty, but didn’t anticipate getting his suit splattered. He doesn’t enjoy the slime like Madeline, but he’s trapped now. Slick Willie is the smartest of the bunch, which doesn’t say much for the rest. Too bad he’s a sociopathic scumbag who doesn’t give a damn about anyone but Boy Clinton. Won’t get much help from him because he’s about to hand off the carnage to … ?Gore. :-O I never thought I’d say it, but the the Russians might be the only hope in salvaging this mess. Lynette —
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t even think the powers that be in Washington. London, and Brussles know that Montenegro exists and that would be sad if they don’t. The powers that be in Washington, London, and Brussels don’t plan ahead and they don’t learn from history. The nerf world, with its poll driven, short attention span has precisely the government it deserves. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to pay the high price of their ineptitude. Pompous half-wits like Blair and Albright, being carted around in armored limos with white-gloved lackeys in tow, make me ill. Madeline Albright is happier than a pig in slime. She’s exhilerated. Truly radiant! Really feels she’s on a dream date with destiny. The dithering twit Blair jumped in like this was going to be a game of lawn tennis. He figured on getting his shoes dirty, but didn’t anticipate getting his suit splattered. He doesn’t enjoy the slime like Madeline, but he’s trapped now. Slick Willie is the smartest of the bunch, which doesn’t say much for the rest. Too bad he’s a sociopathic scumbag who doesn’t give a damn about anyone but Boy Clinton. Won’t get much help from him because he’s about to hand off the carnage to … ?Gore. :-O I never thought I’d say it, but the the Russians might be the only hope in salvaging this mess. Lynette
You are really depressing me.
Response:
Question:
Harris is a mental midget who tortures small animals in his experimental "station" to find whatever "results" his LEF followers slop down with their vitamins and mislabeled drug imports. Your evidence for this lie?
Ask yourself, Harrisoid — you’ve blurted it all out in your Spam-Troll rants and self-aggrandized LEF pronouncements of your expertise in cryothermia, hypothermia and ischemia … freeze ‘em, dunk ‘em in ice, and clamp off some vital arteries and there’s all the proof you need, right Harris? 28-Count Indictments, compliments of the FDA, speak volumes about Harris’ competence as a "Scientific Advisor" for his beloved LEF World — the Middleman of Hoffman-LaDouche and Glaxo-Auschwitz! FYI, the indictments came long before I became an advisor (a year ago).
Did the 28 FDA indictments actually attract you to LEF as something that best fits your background and experience? And have all since been dropped.
Where’s your evidence for this? Do you think a failed indictment means anything?
Wrong question: DOES LEF THINK A FAILED INDICTMENT MEANS ANYTHING? HOW ABOUT A COUPLE OF DOZEN INDICTMENTS? Harris, has LEF been convicted of any of these or other charges brought against it before or since? Has LEF been disciplined by any Federal government agency for any reason? Please be specific. Some grand juries would indict a ham sandwich.
We aren’t talking about ham sandwiches. We ARE talking about the import of mislabeled drugs, etc etc… Harris, do you view the mislabeling of unapproved drugs as you would a ham sandwich? Perhaps MarToon is on to something here — I suppose that lab-patient naivity is the only way to assure objective non-contamination of future anti-junk scientists … better get ‘em on the ethics program early though, before the rain of drug company cash prizes and vacations wrecks every single one of them. It’s also a great way to insure that you never have a clue as to what the hell you’re talking about.
I have more than a clue. You have your ham sandwiches. And you accuse me of the moral crime of torturing animals? ROFL.
No, you’re into the moral crime of human experimentation — the animals are for your after-hour pleasures… Actually, I don’t care if anyone thinks of me as a shoe salesman from Boise, your grocery store checkout girl or even your paperboy. As the establishment’s challenger, it simply doesn’t matter — the burden of proof is the establishment’s, NOT mine. When the shoe salesman tells the immunologists they’re doing "junk science," the shoe salesman should have some really good arguments.
1. The shoe salesman knows that the immunologists aren’t doing immunology — the most casual observer can see that, so what’s your excuse, Harris? 2. This shoe salesman has the real science and posts it to illustrate the falsity and dangerous follies of Harrisoid incompetence and the obvious agenda of Homo-Ethnic Cleansing… 3. As to Harrisoid’s "really good arguments", well, only a true Harrisoid junk-science freak actually "thinks" he can "argue the science"!!! This PROVES that Harris doesn’t know what science is — leave it to this science-resistant bozo and before long he’ll be "arguing" that the earth is really flat once you get a good look at a map … while eating a ham sandwich with his favorite lab animals. You’ve had none.
I’ve been the source of the science here — Harrisoid and The Gang have taken the defensive stance as a response — they originate NO science here — the challengers of their Kooky theories have had to initiate the science. All we’ve heard from you is wrong figuring of statistics on ACTG 320,
What about the CORRECT stats on ACTG175 that prove your sleazy tactics of lies, deception and avoidance as evidence of your abject bankruptcy of facts and science? ridiculous statements that inflammation means infection breakthrough
"Ridiculous"? 1. Like the ridiculous inflammation that accompanies PCP pneumonia breakthrough in profoundly suppressed immunity? 2. Are you claiming that inflammation is absent in suppressed immunity? 3. What is the purpose of using prednisone in PCP treatment and how this sort of suppression of inflammation in this immune-suppressed disease consistent with your absurd notion that inflammation with immune suppression really means "immune restoration"? 4, Are cocktail users with CD4s rising well over 200 breaking out with PCP because their immune systems are restored or because they stopped PCP prophylaxis? It is instructive to note that I’M the one offering all the detailed challenges here — Harris and the rest offer nothing but defensive smokescreens… so tiresome! novel ideas like reversion of memory cells to naive cells in the immune system
Novel ideas? Memory cells DO revert in the blood compartment in cocktail users for reasons well explained — the blood compartment DOES NOT represent "the immune system". Its obvious that you know nothing of these topics, Harris. Nothing. The ravings of an uneducated crank.
Harris … you actually DO think you can "argue" the science, don’t you? Sorry, but you have yet to demonstrate any real knowledge of these issues which leads to the obvious: you are being paid for your misinformation services! I’m dying to see how you handle the inflammatory questions above — your colleague Holzman self-destructed on these issues many months ago … his avoidance and smokescreens were rather instructive of his lack of comprehension in areas he claims expertise… birds of a feather, I suppose… fred
Response:
Harris is a mental midget who tortures small animals in his experimental "station" to find whatever "results" his LEF followers slop down with their vitamins and mislabeled drug imports.
Your evidence for this lie? 28-Count Indictments, compliments of the FDA, speak volumes about Harris’ competence as a "Scientific Advisor" for his beloved LEF World — the Middleman of Hoffman-LaDouche and Glaxo-Auschwitz!
FYI, the indictments came long before I became an advisor (a year ago). And have all since been dropped. Do you think a failed indictment means anything? Some grand juries would indict a ham sandwich. Making it stick (which requires actual evidence) is another matter. "Fred" has never stepped foot into a lab, or cared for a patient. Not quite true, however desperately MarToon wishes it was.
Oh, really? Let’s hear a few specifics. At what point have you done science and published it? What patients have you cared for, and where? Perhaps MarToon is on to something here — I suppose that lab-patient naivity is the only way to assure objective non-contamination of future anti-junk scientists … better get ‘em on the ethics program early though, before the rain of drug company cash prizes and vacations wrecks every single one of them.
It’s also a great way to insure that you never have a clue as to what the hell you’re talking about. Works for you, certainly. "Fred" has no background in any discipline (other than criminology and word processing) that makes him even vaguely employable — certainly not in the fields relevant to AIDS — immunology, virology, nutrition, etc. Let’s suppose this CarToon-MarToon-constructed fantasy was all true — 100% of it — so then what? What’s the point? What difference would that make? Sure, I was, indeed a Parole/Probation Officer for a number of years in the 1970’s and I DO admit that I had loads of fun — the experience was priceless
And you accuse me of the moral crime of torturing animals? ROFL. Actually, I don’t care if anyone thinks of me as a shoe salesman from Boise, your grocery store checkout girl or even your paperboy. As the establishment’s challenger, it simply doesn’t matter — the burden of proof is the establishment’s, NOT mine.
When the shoe salesman tells the immunologists they’re doing "junk science," the shoe salesman should have some really good arguments. You’ve had none. All we’ve heard from you is wrong figuring of statistics on ACTG 320, ridiculous statements that inflammation means infection breakthrough, novel ideas like reversion of memory cells to naive cells in the immune system (like there’s be any left in 20 years if this happened), and so on. The ravings of an uneducated crank. Steve Harris, M.D.
Response:
Marty Delaney (aka MarToon DeLoon), Director of Projekt (Miss) Inform, cowering behind yet ANOTHER false anonymous ID, from "Gangbang" to "DaveT" to "Jack in Texas" and now … us another rare peek into the mind of an actual AIDS junk-science serial/spree killer of Homo-Ethnic Cleansing who externalizes his unquenchable personal Armageddon of homophobia and homosexual self-loathing: Your opinions are, of course, wrong … always. You DON’T know the meaning of the term "debate", Harris — you CAN’T debate … you’ve been reduced to babbling, smokescreens and the outrageous lies of junk science! To be judged by the audience. Good luck.
What "audience"? The Drug Trolls Harris, Holzman, George Mary CarTOON, WallyBeav, the line management and staff of Life Extensions and Harris’ animal-torture lab? Lorenzo (Martin Delaney aka MarToon DeLoon) replies: I do not think that "W. Fred Shaw" or his handlers
"Handlers"? I have "handlers"? Where are my "handlers"? I only WISH I had these mythical "handlers"… If they had any kids in the third grade, perhaps their time would be the best "resource match" for Dr. Harris-Spam-Troll. have the intellectual tools to debate Harris
Probably true — I can’t think at Harris’ profound level of abject imbecilia and junk science illogic with the borderline psychotic irrationalizations that transformed Idiot Harrisoid into a LA-LA castaway to the LEF Mormon Geriatric experiments of the Utah nuclear proving grounds… Harris is a mental midget who tortures small animals in his experimental "station" to find whatever "results" his LEF followers slop down with their vitamins and mislabeled drug imports. 28-Count Indictments, compliments of the FDA, speak volumes about Harris’ competence as a "Scientific Advisor" for his beloved LEF World — the Middleman of Hoffman-LaDouche and Glaxo-Auschwitz! without lapsing into ad hominem attacks and paranoid babbling.
Gotta fill the white space somehow, Marty. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, it takes a nanosecond to impale these junk-science cretins on the stakes of science… something about the way they flail about IS somewhat enjoyable though! "Fred" knows nothing of science or immunology
I agree entirely. Every time I turn another page, I discover that I don’t know squat. Unfortunately, you, Harris and the rest of the junk-science junkies haven’t gotten that far — you haven’t even opened the fuckin’ book in your zeal for reverse-engineering paychecks and junk from weird human drug experiments that even the Nazis wouldn’t have found a purpose for… aside from what Billi Goldberg has spoonfed him.
Hey, YOU should be so lucky, MarToon, George Mary CarToon and the rest of the third grade refugees who found a home in drug company activist-impersonations and junk-science Public Relations! I love it! MarToon DeLoon’s very best defense of the establishment FART and TIRD disaster! LAUGHABLE!!! Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! "Fred" has never stepped foot into a lab, or cared for a patient.
Not quite true, however desperately MarToon wishes it was. Perhaps MarToon is on to something here — I suppose that lab-patient naivity is the only way to assure objective non-contamination of future anti-junk scientists … better get ‘em on the ethics program early though, before the rain of drug company cash prizes and vacations wrecks every single one of them. "Fred" has no background in any discipline (other than criminology and word processing) that makes him even vaguely employable — certainly not in the fields relevant to AIDS — immunology, virology, nutrition, etc.
Let’s suppose this CarToon-MarToon-constructed fantasy was all true — 100% of it — so then what? What’s the point? What difference would that make? Sure, I was, indeed a Parole/Probation Officer for a number of years in the 1970’s and I DO admit that I had loads of fun — the experience was priceless … I simply had a "talent" for effective law enforcement and investigations: how else do these idiots suppose I could spot their psychopathic inner nature, externalized homo-ethnic rage, racism, their criminal minds weaked further by their heroin/morphine/etc addictions, their "resistance" to psychotherapy (people who harm others NEVER seek help), their manipulations, outageous lies, deceptions and betrayals of those they profess to represent revealed by their opportunistic spasms of drug company graft and corrupted systems of "reward" and "punishment". There it is, y’all … clear as a bell! Actually, I don’t care if anyone thinks of me as a shoe salesman from Boise, your grocery store checkout girl or even your paperboy. As the establishment’s challenger, it simply doesn’t matter — the burden of proof is the establishment’s, NOT mine. That merely makes it all the more entertaining when I impale one Dr. Big Deal after another on the sharp bamboo punji sticks of science! It’s quite simple: I always win by default… when I take the science away from them, they have nothing more than these silly MarToon DeLoon cowardly fits of psychotic rage… or Harrisoid’s robotic barking of obsoleted leftovers from the Berlin AIDS Conference fiasco … there’s nothing left for them now other than their souvenirs and memorabilia from Geneva, Vancouver, Yokahama and Berlin! SCIENCE IS AN ABSTRACTION TO "W. FRED SHAW."
See … here’s where MarToon and Company make their first fatal mistake. Yes, MarToon, science really IS an abstraction that exists several levels distant from you and beyond the reach of your junk-science ilk … at least in this lifetime! "FRED" CANNOT AND WILL NOT DEBATE HARRIS WITHOUT THROWING IN JUVENILE NONSENSE BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE THE REQUISITE BACKGROUND OR BRAINPOWER.
Not actually true — from my personal feedback, I’m consistently told that the juvenile nonsense simply makes the science "fun" and easy to grasp. It’s the only way you, Harris, George Mary and the other imbeciles are ever going to get anywhere close to the basics, Marty — but I understand your pain — it’s kinda like having your Geneva-drug-company-prepaid conference tuition, first-class travel and accomodations shoved up your ass a nickel at a time! Marty … it’ll go easier on you if you didn’t fight it… it always does. SO THERE.
Famous quotes from our Heroes of Drug Company Junk Science Activism, Martin Delaney (MarToon DeLoon) of Project MissInform and George Mary CarToon of "SMACKED UP NEW YAWK": "Nah nah nah … nah nah nah!"
Response:
Question:
Harris is a mental midget who tortures small animals in his experimental "station" to find whatever "results" his LEF followers slop down with their vitamins and mislabeled drug imports. Your evidence for this lie?
Ask yourself, Harrisoid — you’ve blurted it all out in your Spam-Troll rants and self-aggrandized LEF pronouncements of your expertise in cryothermia, hypothermia and ischemia … freeze ‘em, dunk ‘em in ice, and clamp off some vital arteries and there’s all the proof you need, right Harris? 28-Count Indictments, compliments of the FDA, speak volumes about Harris’ competence as a "Scientific Advisor" for his beloved LEF World — the Middleman of Hoffman-LaDouche and Glaxo-Auschwitz! FYI, the indictments came long before I became an advisor (a year ago).
Did the 28 FDA indictments actually attract you to LEF as something that best fits your background and experience? And have all since been dropped.
Where’s your evidence for this? Do you think a failed indictment means anything?
Wrong question: DOES LEF THINK A FAILED INDICTMENT MEANS ANYTHING? HOW ABOUT A COUPLE OF DOZEN INDICTMENTS? Harris, has LEF been convicted of any of these or other charges brought against it before or since? Has LEF been disciplined by any Federal government agency for any reason? Please be specific. Some grand juries would indict a ham sandwich.
We aren’t talking about ham sandwiches. We ARE talking about the import of mislabeled drugs, etc etc… Harris, do you view the mislabeling of unapproved drugs as you would a ham sandwich? Perhaps MarToon is on to something here — I suppose that lab-patient naivity is the only way to assure objective non-contamination of future anti-junk scientists … better get ‘em on the ethics program early though, before the rain of drug company cash prizes and vacations wrecks every single one of them. It’s also a great way to insure that you never have a clue as to what the hell you’re talking about.
I have more than a clue. You have your ham sandwiches. And you accuse me of the moral crime of torturing animals? ROFL.
No, you’re into the moral crime of human experimentation — the animals are for your after-hour pleasures… Actually, I don’t care if anyone thinks of me as a shoe salesman from Boise, your grocery store checkout girl or even your paperboy. As the establishment’s challenger, it simply doesn’t matter — the burden of proof is the establishment’s, NOT mine. When the shoe salesman tells the immunologists they’re doing "junk science," the shoe salesman should have some really good arguments.
1. The shoe salesman knows that the immunologists aren’t doing immunology — the most casual observer can see that, so what’s your excuse, Harris? 2. This shoe salesman has the real science and posts it to illustrate the falsity and dangerous follies of Harrisoid incompetence and the obvious agenda of Homo-Ethnic Cleansing… 3. As to Harrisoid’s "really good arguments", well, only a true Harrisoid junk-science freak actually "thinks" he can "argue the science"!!! This PROVES that Harris doesn’t know what science is — leave it to this science-resistant bozo and before long he’ll be "arguing" that the earth is really flat once you get a good look at a map … while eating a ham sandwich with his favorite lab animals. You’ve had none.
I’ve been the source of the science here — Harrisoid and The Gang have taken the defensive stance as a response — they originate NO science here — the challengers of their Kooky theories have had to initiate the science. All we’ve heard from you is wrong figuring of statistics on ACTG 320,
What about the CORRECT stats on ACTG175 that prove your sleazy tactics of lies, deception and avoidance as evidence of your abject bankruptcy of facts and science? ridiculous statements that inflammation means infection breakthrough
"Ridiculous"? 1. Like the ridiculous inflammation that accompanies PCP pneumonia breakthrough in profoundly suppressed immunity? 2. Are you claiming that inflammation is absent in suppressed immunity? 3. What is the purpose of using prednisone in PCP treatment and how this sort of suppression of inflammation in this immune-suppressed disease consistent with your absurd notion that inflammation with immune suppression really means "immune restoration"? 4, Are cocktail users with CD4s rising well over 200 breaking out with PCP because their immune systems are restored or because they stopped PCP prophylaxis? It is instructive to note that I’M the one offering all the detailed challenges here — Harris and the rest offer nothing but defensive smokescreens… so tiresome! novel ideas like reversion of memory cells to naive cells in the immune system
Novel ideas? Memory cells DO revert in the blood compartment in cocktail users for reasons well explained — the blood compartment DOES NOT represent "the immune system". Its obvious that you know nothing of these topics, Harris. Nothing. The ravings of an uneducated crank.
Harris … you actually DO think you can "argue" the science, don’t you? Sorry, but you have yet to demonstrate any real knowledge of these issues which leads to the obvious: you are being paid for your misinformation services! I’m dying to see how you handle the inflammatory questions above — your colleague Holzman self-destructed on these issues many months ago … his avoidance and smokescreens were rather instructive of his lack of comprehension in areas he claims expertise… birds of a feather, I suppose… fred
Response:
Harris is a mental midget who tortures small animals in his experimental "station" to find whatever "results" his LEF followers slop down with their vitamins and mislabeled drug imports.
Your evidence for this lie? 28-Count Indictments, compliments of the FDA, speak volumes about Harris’ competence as a "Scientific Advisor" for his beloved LEF World — the Middleman of Hoffman-LaDouche and Glaxo-Auschwitz!
FYI, the indictments came long before I became an advisor (a year ago). And have all since been dropped. Do you think a failed indictment means anything? Some grand juries would indict a ham sandwich. Making it stick (which requires actual evidence) is another matter. "Fred" has never stepped foot into a lab, or cared for a patient. Not quite true, however desperately MarToon wishes it was.
Oh, really? Let’s hear a few specifics. At what point have you done science and published it? What patients have you cared for, and where? Perhaps MarToon is on to something here — I suppose that lab-patient naivity is the only way to assure objective non-contamination of future anti-junk scientists … better get ‘em on the ethics program early though, before the rain of drug company cash prizes and vacations wrecks every single one of them.
It’s also a great way to insure that you never have a clue as to what the hell you’re talking about. Works for you, certainly. "Fred" has no background in any discipline (other than criminology and word processing) that makes him even vaguely employable — certainly not in the fields relevant to AIDS — immunology, virology, nutrition, etc. Let’s suppose this CarToon-MarToon-constructed fantasy was all true — 100% of it — so then what? What’s the point? What difference would that make? Sure, I was, indeed a Parole/Probation Officer for a number of years in the 1970’s and I DO admit that I had loads of fun — the experience was priceless
And you accuse me of the moral crime of torturing animals? ROFL. Actually, I don’t care if anyone thinks of me as a shoe salesman from Boise, your grocery store checkout girl or even your paperboy. As the establishment’s challenger, it simply doesn’t matter — the burden of proof is the establishment’s, NOT mine.
When the shoe salesman tells the immunologists they’re doing "junk science," the shoe salesman should have some really good arguments. You’ve had none. All we’ve heard from you is wrong figuring of statistics on ACTG 320, ridiculous statements that inflammation means infection breakthrough, novel ideas like reversion of memory cells to naive cells in the immune system (like there’s be any left in 20 years if this happened), and so on. The ravings of an uneducated crank. Steve Harris, M.D.
Response:
Marty Delaney (aka MarToon DeLoon), Director of Projekt (Miss) Inform, cowering behind yet ANOTHER false anonymous ID, from "Gangbang" to "DaveT" to "Jack in Texas" and now … us another rare peek into the mind of an actual AIDS junk-science serial/spree killer of Homo-Ethnic Cleansing who externalizes his unquenchable personal Armageddon of homophobia and homosexual self-loathing: Your opinions are, of course, wrong … always. You DON’T know the meaning of the term "debate", Harris — you CAN’T debate … you’ve been reduced to babbling, smokescreens and the outrageous lies of junk science! To be judged by the audience. Good luck.
What "audience"? The Drug Trolls Harris, Holzman, George Mary CarTOON, WallyBeav, the line management and staff of Life Extensions and Harris’ animal-torture lab? Lorenzo (Martin Delaney aka MarToon DeLoon) replies: I do not think that "W. Fred Shaw" or his handlers
"Handlers"? I have "handlers"? Where are my "handlers"? I only WISH I had these mythical "handlers"… If they had any kids in the third grade, perhaps their time would be the best "resource match" for Dr. Harris-Spam-Troll. have the intellectual tools to debate Harris
Probably true — I can’t think at Harris’ profound level of abject imbecilia and junk science illogic with the borderline psychotic irrationalizations that transformed Idiot Harrisoid into a LA-LA castaway to the LEF Mormon Geriatric experiments of the Utah nuclear proving grounds… Harris is a mental midget who tortures small animals in his experimental "station" to find whatever "results" his LEF followers slop down with their vitamins and mislabeled drug imports. 28-Count Indictments, compliments of the FDA, speak volumes about Harris’ competence as a "Scientific Advisor" for his beloved LEF World — the Middleman of Hoffman-LaDouche and Glaxo-Auschwitz! without lapsing into ad hominem attacks and paranoid babbling.
Gotta fill the white space somehow, Marty. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, it takes a nanosecond to impale these junk-science cretins on the stakes of science… something about the way they flail about IS somewhat enjoyable though! "Fred" knows nothing of science or immunology
I agree entirely. Every time I turn another page, I discover that I don’t know squat. Unfortunately, you, Harris and the rest of the junk-science junkies haven’t gotten that far — you haven’t even opened the fuckin’ book in your zeal for reverse-engineering paychecks and junk from weird human drug experiments that even the Nazis wouldn’t have found a purpose for… aside from what Billi Goldberg has spoonfed him.
Hey, YOU should be so lucky, MarToon, George Mary CarToon and the rest of the third grade refugees who found a home in drug company activist-impersonations and junk-science Public Relations! I love it! MarToon DeLoon’s very best defense of the establishment FART and TIRD disaster! LAUGHABLE!!! Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! "Fred" has never stepped foot into a lab, or cared for a patient.
Not quite true, however desperately MarToon wishes it was. Perhaps MarToon is on to something here — I suppose that lab-patient naivity is the only way to assure objective non-contamination of future anti-junk scientists … better get ‘em on the ethics program early though, before the rain of drug company cash prizes and vacations wrecks every single one of them. "Fred" has no background in any discipline (other than criminology and word processing) that makes him even vaguely employable — certainly not in the fields relevant to AIDS — immunology, virology, nutrition, etc.
Let’s suppose this CarToon-MarToon-constructed fantasy was all true — 100% of it — so then what? What’s the point? What difference would that make? Sure, I was, indeed a Parole/Probation Officer for a number of years in the 1970’s and I DO admit that I had loads of fun — the experience was priceless … I simply had a "talent" for effective law enforcement and investigations: how else do these idiots suppose I could spot their psychopathic inner nature, externalized homo-ethnic rage, racism, their criminal minds weaked further by their heroin/morphine/etc addictions, their "resistance" to psychotherapy (people who harm others NEVER seek help), their manipulations, outageous lies, deceptions and betrayals of those they profess to represent revealed by their opportunistic spasms of drug company graft and corrupted systems of "reward" and "punishment". There it is, y’all … clear as a bell! Actually, I don’t care if anyone thinks of me as a shoe salesman from Boise, your grocery store checkout girl or even your paperboy. As the establishment’s challenger, it simply doesn’t matter — the burden of proof is the establishment’s, NOT mine. That merely makes it all the more entertaining when I impale one Dr. Big Deal after another on the sharp bamboo punji sticks of science! It’s quite simple: I always win by default… when I take the science away from them, they have nothing more than these silly MarToon DeLoon cowardly fits of psychotic rage… or Harrisoid’s robotic barking of obsoleted leftovers from the Berlin AIDS Conference fiasco … there’s nothing left for them now other than their souvenirs and memorabilia from Geneva, Vancouver, Yokahama and Berlin! SCIENCE IS AN ABSTRACTION TO "W. FRED SHAW."
See … here’s where MarToon and Company make their first fatal mistake. Yes, MarToon, science really IS an abstraction that exists several levels distant from you and beyond the reach of your junk-science ilk … at least in this lifetime! "FRED" CANNOT AND WILL NOT DEBATE HARRIS WITHOUT THROWING IN JUVENILE NONSENSE BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE THE REQUISITE BACKGROUND OR BRAINPOWER.
Not actually true — from my personal feedback, I’m consistently told that the juvenile nonsense simply makes the science "fun" and easy to grasp. It’s the only way you, Harris, George Mary and the other imbeciles are ever going to get anywhere close to the basics, Marty — but I understand your pain — it’s kinda like having your Geneva-drug-company-prepaid conference tuition, first-class travel and accomodations shoved up your ass a nickel at a time! Marty … it’ll go easier on you if you didn’t fight it… it always does. SO THERE.
Famous quotes from our Heroes of Drug Company Junk Science Activism, Martin Delaney (MarToon DeLoon) of Project MissInform and George Mary CarToon of "SMACKED UP NEW YAWK": "Nah nah nah … nah nah nah!"
Response:
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a copy of a bi-weekly online email list- if you are interested in in the subject line. begin letter: Greetings and Salutations- Howdy! I have had a rough one, but I am feeling much better, getting this letter done. Doing these letters really gets me sort of high- so if you aren’t reading it, don’t tell me. I am catching the Christmas spirit, activist style- and am refusing to shop from the following stores that have been cited by the National Labor Comission for using sweat-shops for some of their products: Wal-Mart- $.15/hr Guess Walt Disney- $.13, $.57/hr Nike- refused to pay workers $2.50/day May (Foley’s) Kmart- $.15/hr J.C. Penny- $.15/hr Espirit Victoria’s Secrets- $.71/hr (source: San Antonio Current Dec 11)
1: I don’t believe sweatshops are a good thing. The Triangle factory fire was shameful, that it was repeated in the last decade or so, was irredeemable. 2: That part out of the way, are you refusing to shop at stores that carry clothes, made by other firms, that were made in sweatshops? If so, should I chastise you for owning a couch or a car that has cloth seats? The fabric industry is infamous in its depredations visited on illegal immigrants, yet we insist on wearing clothes. you mention Disney, yet I am somehow sure that the people who walk around in character costumes aren’t so lowly paid as you indicate. I would be willing to bet that those wages are the wages paid to the workers who make the souvenir T-shirts and caps. 3: I would also be willing to lay bets on what countries these wages are paid in. While the fabric industry is infamous, it is still losing market share to goods made outside the country. I once bought a linen table cloth, manufactured in China, in a shop in St Thomas, USVirgin islands. That table cloth cost me only $40, while a similar tablecloth made in the states would have cost hundreds. I have no figures on what wages define the median income in Singapore, or Taiwan. I have no idea of the tax structure there. I do know there are two ways I can affect the cost of labor in those places. A) refuse to buy their goods, and convince my friends. The companies will go under, the workers will starve, but at least no one will be paid minimum wages anymore. Maybe, if I’m lucky, the landowners will hire the former workers as tenant farmers, so they can eat. I hear people saying that these companies make enough money to pay their workers much more, that is also true of many companies that pay their workers well. somewhere, there is a balance point where the companies that make the product, cease to make money at it, and go into other work. B) I can buy their goods, and convince my friends.If the goods are of better quality, then the company hires more workers. The supply does not grow, so workers in that company start commanding higher wages. Labor becomes a higher percentage of the cost of manufacture. This is the only scenario where labor comes out on top. Go to the Marx-Lenin library online and read up. It is only in times of high demand that laborers, ever competing with one another for jobs, have a chance of getting their true worth for their labor. At all other times the landowners ability to charge rent, and the company owners ability to pay as little as workers will work for, combine to work against the average unskilled laborer. By buying their product, and talking it up to my friends, I will hopefully increase demand, cause labor costs to rise and prices to go up. This is not good for the consumer, but then, we weren’t worried about him, were we? C) The last thing we haven’t talked about is payment by the piece. Many garment factories pay on the basis of how many items you have completed. While this makes it easy to calculate labor costs for specific items ($1 per shirt, say) it does nothing towards advancing the industry towards an hourly wage, and an assembly-line method of manufature (see Wealth of Nations for analysis of difference in living standards of worker on assembly line as oposed to individual turning out complete product). when laborers work on an assembly line, the only honest way to pay them is for time put in. In short, investigate those numbers. What is the average wage in those countries, what does it buy? if $1/hour buys food, clothing and shelter, you have no complaint about workers earning $1/hour. a while ago, the mexican peso was trading for american dollars at a rate in excess of 800 to one. A worker earning 400 pesos per hour would have earned your wrath, yet have been fairly well off. At the current reate of exchange, this worker would be earning about $60/hour. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can hear the responses already. People have tried to convince me that these sweatshops are a good thing- that at least they are getting some money. And I only ask you to look into your heart and ask it if this is right, good and beautiful. If so, I have no arguement with you. It is tough enough to convince a mind that is set in its ways, but a heart…. I am not sure it is my place to change anyone’s heart. And, I must confess I bought something at Foley’s today- because I did not realize that they were owned by May. Alas, I have not achieved perfection yet- but hold on Jesus, I am trying. "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48 Being a disciple of this guy is tough! The GOOD NEWS I have so much good News that I am burtsting at the seams: This last week saw a lot of firsts for women around the world: For the first time in New Zealand’s history the office of Prime Minister is held by a woman. Two women have recently been elected to Hong Kong’s High Court And, for the first time in Israel’s history- women are allowed to be pilots. However, the new law has mandated that they take four days off each month. Reuters: President Clinton has officially changed the Military’s policy on nuclear weapons. The military is no longer to think of them in terms of a tool to win a struglle or war- but purely as defense. The military is finally admiting publically what everyone knew- it is practically impossible to win a nuclear war. http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971208/news/stories/nuclear_3.html (I was kidding about the four days off thing.) A Call for Action: I am sending you the www address of a really neat site called Interactivism. This site is designed so that you can send of faxes to the appropriate people on various issues- gun control, Liberating Tibet and Campaign Finance- to name a few. And if you click on "action" you will find 5 more issues to voice your opinion on! A plethora of oppurtunities for you to speak your mind. The neat thing about this page is that they list 5 or 6 victories- in which public support (like for example- faxes, and emails!) helped an important measure go through. http://www.interactivism.com/ Go get em’ tigers! be well! blessings, Rev. Paul === -Everyone needs to do their part. -If you would like to be on this mailing list, a -Forward this petition to everyone you know, please. -If you are not interested in receivining emails from this list, just respond, with "unsubscribe" in the subject line. -The word "activism" rightly begins with the word "active."
– Come see my web site "The Elfvin Family Reference Page" at <A Href="http://home.att.net/~elvish1/" Your one-stop reference for information, books and search engines!
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Not just at Christmas, but all through out the year, Knight Ridder and Gannett (the newspaper publishers) should be boycotted for their behavior towards the striking union workers at the Detroit Free Press and Detroit News.
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This is a copy of a bi-weekly online email list- if you are interested in in the subject line. begin letter: Greetings and Salutations- Howdy! I have had a rough one, but I am feeling much better, getting this letter done. Doing these letters really gets me sort of high- so if you aren’t reading it, don’t tell me. I am catching the Christmas spirit, activist style- and am refusing to shop from the following stores that have been cited by the National Labor Comission for using sweat-shops for some of their products: Wal-Mart- $.15/hr Guess Walt Disney- $.13, $.57/hr Nike- refused to pay workers $2.50/day May (Foley’s) Kmart- $.15/hr J.C. Penny- $.15/hr Espirit Victoria’s Secrets- $.71/hr (source: San Antonio Current Dec 11) I can hear the responses already. People have tried to convince me that these sweatshops are a good thing- that at least they are getting some money. And I only ask you to look into your heart and ask it if this is right, good and beautiful. If so, I have no arguement with you. It is tough enough to convince a mind that is set in its ways, but a heart…. I am not sure it is my place to change anyone’s heart. And, I must confess I bought something at Foley’s today- because I did not realize that they were owned by May. Alas, I have not achieved perfection yet- but hold on Jesus, I am trying. "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48 Being a disciple of this guy is tough! The GOOD NEWS I have so much good News that I am burtsting at the seams: This last week saw a lot of firsts for women around the world: For the first time in New Zealand’s history the office of Prime Minister is held by a woman. Two women have recently been elected to Hong Kong’s High Court And, for the first time in Israel’s history- women are allowed to be pilots. However, the new law has mandated that they take four days off each month. Reuters: President Clinton has officially changed the Military’s policy on nuclear weapons. The military is no longer to think of them in terms of a tool to win a struglle or war- but purely as defense. The military is finally admiting publically what everyone knew- it is practically impossible to win a nuclear war. http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971208/news/stories/nuclear_3.html (I was kidding about the four days off thing.) A Call for Action: I am sending you the www address of a really neat site called Interactivism. This site is designed so that you can send of faxes to the appropriate people on various issues- gun control, Liberating Tibet and Campaign Finance- to name a few. And if you click on "action" you will find 5 more issues to voice your opinion on! A plethora of oppurtunities for you to speak your mind. The neat thing about this page is that they list 5 or 6 victories- in which public support (like for example- faxes, and emails!) helped an important measure go through. http://www.interactivism.com/ Go get em’ tigers! be well! blessings, Rev. Paul === -Everyone needs to do their part. -If you would like to be on this mailing list, a -Forward this petition to everyone you know, please. -If you are not interested in receivining emails from this list, just respond, with "unsubscribe" in the subject line. -The word "activism" rightly begins with the word "active."
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GENOCIDE IN RHODE ISLAND ON FEBURARY 11, 1997 THE DREAM OF THE PEOPLE OF RHODE ISLAND WAS PRESENTED TO THE RHODE ISLAND LEGISLATURE IN THE FORM OF 97S0568 AND 97H6419. THIS WOULD BE A VOLUNTARY ACT THAT WOULD ESTABLISH A REFUND DEDUCTION ON THE PERSONAL INCOME FORM OF $1 or $5 FOR THE MARATHON OF MOTHERS FUND WHICH IS DEDICATED TO RAISING FUNDS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A SAFE AND EFFECTIVE VACCINE AGAINST HIV/AIDS. ON JUNE 10, 1997 THIS DREAM PASSED THE FULL SENATE, AND WAS SENT TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR PASSAGE. REP. ANTONIO J. PIRES, CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE COMMITTE ON FINANCE, REFUSED TO PRESENT THE BILL TO HIS COMMITTEE. HIS REASON WAS THAT WOULD BE UNFAIR TO OTHER CHECKS OFFS TO LET THIS ONE BE ON, AND NOT THE OTHERS. THIS DESPITE THAT IT IS VOLUNTARY. THIS DESPITE OVER 20,000 REQUESTS OF "RHODYS" IN FAVOR. THIS DESPITE RECENT REQUESTS BY MARATHON OF MOTHERS TO REP. PIRES,TO REP. GERARD M. MARTINEAU[SPONOSOR] TO U.S. SENATORS JACK REED AND JOHN H. CHAFE TO U.S. REPRESENTATIVES ROBERT A. WEYGAND AND PATRICK J. KENNEDY. ALL OF THESE REQUESTS WERE NEVER ANSWERED. WHY DOES GENOCIDE EXIST IN THE ACTIONS OF CERTAIN PEOPLE? LETS DEFINE THE BIG PICTURE. THE HIV VIRUS KILLS 100% THE HIV VIRUS CAN BE PREVENTED FROM KILLING 100% THAT IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO BE KNOWNED. AS ALWAYS THE TRUTH IS VERY SIMPLE. No other disease such as Heart, Cancer, Multiple Sclerosis, Diabetes is: 100% contagious 100% killer can be erradicated 100% These illness have been with us for centuries, AIDS only 17 years. You would have to build 7 Vietnen War Memorials to have all the names of dead Americans from AIDS: more than 375,000. Triple drug treatment is available for only 6% of those who need it, and already 56% are resistant to this treatment. $300 Billion would be necessary to treat all presently infected. A VACCINE COSTS $100. What do you know about Smallpox? What do you know about AIDS? The difference: A VACCINE. DOES NOT AIDS DESERVE SPECIAL ATTENTION AT THIS MOMENT? THE FACT THAT IT KILLS 100%, AND CAN BE STOPPED 100% MERITS SPECIAL ATTENTION BY ALL OF US TO END THIS TRAGEDY OF OUR GENERATION. IF WE ARE AWARE OF THIS FACT, AND IGNORE IT; ARE WE NOT CREATING GENOCIDE? PROVE US WRONG OR HELP PASS THIS DREAM. MARATHON OF MOTHERS EVERY 1 SECOND SOMEONE BECOMES HIV+ FOR WHOM WILL THE BELL TOLL NEXT? Telephone: 1-401-762-6161. HIV DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE BUT WE DO THUS THE GENOCIDE. Please call Rep. Pires: 401-723-4743 and tell him to pass Bill 97H 6419
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Hey Everybody, Here’s what happens when science prevails over the dogmatic drug establishment. This is typical. Am I intimidated? Hardly. That’s why I’m posting another fine example of AIDS drug activism in order to illustrate that there’s something VERY VERY wrong in Cocktail World. Having a 75% failure rate on the cocktail "cures", with the science rendering their superstitious beliefs obsolete (along with them), all these fools can do is blow their little fuses and have one little bitch-snit-fit after another! Hey, whatever works fellas! … Today our brave AIDS activist, George M. Carter, fought AIDS by mailbombing me 500 copies of the following message from another email account with forged headers. Then, Carter’s partner in slime, Quasimoto "Sphincter Boy" primenet abuse team like a little girl because he didn’t like the treatment he received when he stood behind the anonymous "get fred" attack post that Coward Carter couldn’t sign his sleazy activist name to. What is truly appalling is that these idiots really think the primenet people are interested in their "plight". They aren’t. But this explains why George and Dave are wrong about the bullshit they promote regarding these no-brainer cancer drugs for immune suppression! So Dave, cut the crap. While I can’t speak on behalf of the primenet people who don’t need to put up with this Not-So-Dynamic-Idiot-Duo, I have a piece of advice for you: Fuck Off! The timing of Day-Wees complaint after the mailbombing is very suspicious. Of course, Day-Wee will play the innocent bystander and victim of the big meanie, but let me point out that Day-Wee is a big boy, an adult, and has made a choice to support Carter’s insults and schemes. This is a public forum, Dave, if you choose to behave this way in public, don’t get angry when you get reprimanded in public, OK sport? While I’m not interested in these childish games, I think George and Dave will learn the hard way that they aren’t advancing their cause by pulling this kind of shit. In fact, they’re doing their cause a whole lot more harm than they realize. But they’re too stupid to figure it out, anyway, so I suppose I’ll have to help them along in that effort. Here’s the typical Carter attack, which is more projection of Carter’s own pain that his heroin addiction couldn’t touch. What bothers Carter so much about DNCB is the fact that his own AIDS condition advanced while he remained in denial about the drugs I and others warned him about. Of course, Carter made his own choice, which was one of those fine choices that resulted from his own activism. If Carter doesn’t like DNCB, he simply doesn’t have to use it! So its really counterproductive for George to have a shit-fit at any mention of the term "DNCB", but that, too, is his "choice": Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.11]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10532 (MST) Received: from mindspring.com (ip63.manchester.nh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.234.63]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19239 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 6325283eab9d527da7b24e3ca3b7cee3 Status: U X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 STAY OUT OF MISC.HEALTH.AIDS, YOU DON’T BELONG THERE, AREN’T EVEN HIV+ AND ARE A TIRED QUEEN WHO GETS HER KICKS OUT OF POSTING NASTY MESSAGES IN AN AREA YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!! SO STICK YOUR DNCB AS FAR UP YOUR WIDE OPEN ASS AS YOU CAN AND GET A LIFE, SORRY AS YOURS IS NOW…
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