Swiss Alps are melting; Action needed , Europe must make plans -Report

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -Glaciers in eight of Europe’s nine glacial regions are in retreat, and are at their lowest levels for 5,000 years. I remember one time in the late 1990s Al Gore did a photo op in Glacier National Park, where there used to be glaciers. His point was that the retreat was alarming, or something like that. I remember a Mormon coworker commenting about how alarming the lack of glaciers in Glacier National Park was. He didn’t sound at all convinced. Tian

Someof the photos used by the scammers are fromthe 1920s leading suckers like "Economic Democracy" to believe they are recent. It’s nothing new. Scammers have been using end-of-the-world scenerio scams to peddle snake oil religions for thousands of years. The global warming BS is just an extention of the new age "Gaia" BS, similar in virtually every way to "psychic surgery", "holistic medicine", and other speudo-science scams. The only difference is the money. These scammers have willing co-horts in a handful of conmen with actual science degrees who depend on tax dollars, and international orgs and dictators who want to use them to grab US tax dollars. William R. James

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strong evidence exists that most of the global warming over the past 50 years has been caused by human activities, in particular emissions of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide (CO2) from the burning of fossil fuels. False, and you know it. There is ZERO evidence to support your chicken little scam and you have been repeatedly challanged to come up with some and you have repeatedly failed to do anything but post the same discounted BS over and over as if it had some basis in reality. No point replying to William James whose breain is in another galaxy, but for bystanders reading this, we have posted peer-reviewed articles and journalistic summaries thereof (from tiny unknown little outfits, like, say, BBC World News) with new posts as there is a growing string of such studies. Search usenet for economicdemocracy and climate or global.

Nothing but BS as usual. Perhaps you should learn a little science before attempting to discuss it. The BBC is hardly a cerdible scientific source. General background: You would have a hard time knowing it listening to the mainstream media but here are some of the groups warning: 1) Statement warning about Global Warming by Thomas Karl, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s NATIONAL CLIMATIC DATA CENTER, and Kevin Trenberth, head of the CLIMATE ANALYSIS SECTION at NCAR: http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/p/tp-20031208-04.html

ROLFLMAO! Where does their money come from? Do you also trust Tobacco company "scientists" who say smoking isn’t addictive or hazardous? If not then you are quite the hypocrite, aren’t you? The scientists conclude that industrial emissions have been the dominant influence on climate change for the past 50 years, overwhelming natural forces.

No scientist would ever conclude such a thing. No scientist would come to a scientific comclusion regarding the cause of something for which there isn’t even any evidence in the first place! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -2) AMERICAN GEOPHYSICAL UNION warns about climate change: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/12/18/MNGNV3PH9… What CNN may not tell you, even Christy, one of the so called "skeptics" admits this in the above article: "[Even Christy] is convinced that human activities are the major cause of the global warming that has been measured," and that "It is scientifically inconceivable that after changing forests into cities, turning millions of acres into farmland, putting massive quantities of soot and dust into the atmosphere and sending quantities of greenhouse gases into the air, that the natural course of climate change hasn’t been increased in the past century.”" Yet he is quoted out of context as a "skeptic" in mainstream media (with Straw Men about ‘let’s not claim the world will end tomorrow" (which no one does) and the public still thinks there is a "debate" about whether climate change is real and furthermore, is mostly (see "the major cause" above and other similar quotes elsewhere) is mostly human caused.

You conveniently ignore (as usual) the reality. Millions of those acres are irrigated growing plants where little or none grew before. You want to talk about soot and dust? How about going back to the days before forest fires and the millions of acres of grassland fires were controlled? How about the days before irrigation in the southwest when sand and dust storms were the norm? No, that wouldn’t fit into the BS you are peddling, would it? There is a debate regarding the global warming scam. There are actual scentists and others demanding evidence and the charlitans like you ranting on and on as if it’s just accepted as fact so evidence isn’t required. 3) WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION (WMO) "Anecdotal evidence that the world’s weather is getting wilder now has a solid scientific basis in fact following a dramatic global assessment from the World Meteorological Organization."

Right, "anecdotal evidence", aka "no evidence, just testimonials and BS claims. Should you ever come across some evidence, feel free to post it. Excuse us all if we don’t hold our breaths waiting. William R. James

Response:

Strong evidence exists that most of the global warming over the past 50 years has been caused by human activities, in particular emissions of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide (CO2) from the burning of fossil fuels. False, and you know it. There is ZERO evidence to support your chicken little scam and you have been repeatedly challanged to come up with some and you have repeatedly failed to do anything but post the same discounted BS over and over as if it had some basis in reality. No point replying to William James whose breain is in another galaxy,

As if you you should talk, given your series of idiotic posts ("seas turning to acid")… but for bystanders reading this, we have posted peer-reviewed articles

Most of your "peer-reviewed articles" are op-ed pieces…

Response:

No point replying to William James whose breain is in another galaxy, but for bystanders reading this, we have posted peer-reviewed articles and journalistic summaries thereof (from tiny unknown little outfits, like, say, BBC World News) with new posts as there is a growing string of such studies. Search usenet for economicdemocracy and climate or global. General background: You would have a hard time knowing it listening to the mainstream media but here are some of the groups warning: 1) Statement warning about Global Warming by Thomas Karl, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s NATIONAL CLIMATIC DATA CENTER, and Kevin Trenberth, head of the CLIMATE ANALYSIS SECTION at NCAR: http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/p/tp-20031208-04.html The scientists conclude that industrial emissions have been the dominant influence on climate change for the past 50 years, overwhelming natural forces. 2) AMERICAN GEOPHYSICAL UNION warns about climate change: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/12/18/MNGNV3PH9… What CNN may not tell you, even Christy, one of the so called "skeptics" admits this in the above article: "[Even Christy] is convinced that human activities are the major cause of the global warming that has been measured," and that "It is scientifically inconceivable that after changing forests into cities, turning millions of acres into farmland, putting massive quantities of soot and dust into the atmosphere and sending quantities of greenhouse gases into the air, that the natural course of climate change hasn’t been increased in the past century.”" Yet he is quoted out of context as a "skeptic" in mainstream media (with Straw Men about ‘let’s not claim the world will end tomorrow" (which no one does) and the public still thinks there is a "debate" about whether climate change is real and furthermore, is mostly (see "the major cause" above and other similar quotes elsewhere) is mostly human caused. 3) WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION (WMO) "Anecdotal evidence that the world’s weather is getting wilder now has a solid scientific basis in fact following a dramatic global assessment from the World Meteorological Organization." http://www.cnn.com/2003/WEATHER/07/03/wmo.extremes/ 4) (this should be item #1, they are the largest body of experts in the world and one of largest the largest if not the largest open scientific peer review process in the world) The IPCC, the Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change, http://www.ipcc.ch/ the largest group of climate experts in the world, conducting one of the largest (if not the largest) open, scientific peer-review in history. They warn with increasing gravity about climate change. (http://www.ipcc.ch/press/pr.htm) Lots of BBC stories, see "cuts of 50-70% are needed" in BBC citations below. 5) THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCE, the most prestigious (and publisher of Science Magazine, one of the two most prestigious science journals (the other being the journal Nature): "Climate experts urge immediate action to offset impact of global warming" http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2004/0616climateIntro.shtml "Governments and consumers in the United States and worldwide should take immediate steps to reduce the threat of global warming and to prepare for a future in which coastal flooding, reduced crop yields and elevated rates of climate-related illness are all but certain, top U.S. scientists said Tuesday. "At a meeting organized by AAAS [American Association for the Advancement of Science] and its journal, Science, the climate researchers argued that while some policy experts and sectors of the public dispute the risk, there is in fact no cause for doubt: The world is significantly warmer today than it was a century ago — and it’s getting warmer.." Also (http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2004/0616climate.shtml) They note that: "Scientists generally agree that temperatures are rising as a result of human activities such as fossil-fuel burning, which releases carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases. This warming has caused glacial melting and subsequent increases in sea levels worldwide.." DON’T MOURN, ACT! WEBSITES FOR ACTION: http://www.greenhousenet.org/ http://www.gristmagazine.com/dogood/climate.asp http://www.solarcatalyst.com/ Overview and local actions you can take: http://www.PostCarbon.org = = = = STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT’S GOING ON? = = = = Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org = = = = Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email For more information: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace) And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general) ** ANTI-SPAM EMAIL NOTE: For email "info" and "map" don’t work. Email instead ** to m-a-i-l-m-a-i-l (without the dashes) at economicdemocracy.org

Response:

False, and you know it. There is ZERO evidence to support your chicken little scam and you have been repeatedly challanged to come up with some and you have repeatedly failed to do anything but post the same discounted BS over and over as if it had some basis in reality. Once again, first you have to show some evidence of global warming, and THEN some evidence that it’s related to human activity. You have done neither and obviously will never do either. William R. James

Response:

-Glaciers in eight of Europe’s nine glacial regions are in retreat, and are at their lowest levels for 5,000 years.

I remember one time in the late 1990s Al Gore did a photo op in Glacier National Park, where there used to be glaciers. His point was that the retreat was alarming, or something like that. I remember a Mormon coworker commenting about how alarming the lack of glaciers in Glacier National Park was. He didn’t sound at all convinced. Tian — http://tian.greens.org I spent last evening in the San Mateo County Green Party Booth at the San Mateo County Fair. I was surprised at how much easier to talk to the Republicans were than the Democrats up there. I got a Steve Poizner pin.

Response:

Rocks are melting?

Response:

Europe needs adaptation strategies to limit climate change impacts <bMore frequent and more economically costly storms, floods, droughts and other extreme weather. Wetter conditions in northern Europe but drier weather in the south that could threaten agriculture in some areas. More frequent and more intense heatwaves, posing a lethal threat to the elderly and frail. Melting glaciers, with three-quarters of those in the Swiss Alps likely to disappear by 2050. Rising sea levels for centuries to come.</b These are among the impacts of global climate change that are already being seen in Europe or are projected to happen over the coming decades as global temperatures rise, according to a new report from the European Environment Agency (EEA). Strong evidence exists that most of the global warming over the past 50 years has been caused by human activities, in particular emissions of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide (CO2) from the burning of fossil fuels. The concentration of CO2, the main greenhouse gas, in the lower atmosphere is now at its highest for at least 420,000 years – possibly even 20 million years – and stands 34% above its level before the Industrial Revolution. The rise has been accelerating since 1950. The summer floods of 2002 and last year’s summer heatwave are recent examples of how destructive extreme weather can be. The serious flooding in 11 countries in August 2002 killed about 80 people, affected more than 600,000 and caused economic losses of at least 15 billion US$. In the summer 2003 heatwave western and southern Europe recorded more than 20,000 excess deaths, particularly among elderly people. Crop harvests in many southern countries were down by as much as 30%. Melting reduced the mass of the Alpine glaciers by one-tenth in 2003 alone. "This report pulls together a wealth of evidence that climate change is already happening and having widespread impacts, many of them with substantial economic costs, on people and ecosystems across Europe," said Prof. Jacqueline McGlade, EEA Executive Director. She added: "Europe has to continue to lead worldwide efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but this report also underlines that strategies are needed, at European, regional, national and local level, to adapt to climate change. This is a phenomenon that will considerably affect our societies and environments for decades and centuries to come." The extent and rate of the climate changes under way most likely exceed all natural variation in climate over the last thousand years and possibly longer. The 1990s were the warmest decade on record and the three hottest years recorded – 1998, 2002 and 2003 – have occurred in the last six years. The global warming rate is now almost 0.2

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