Saving Babies is Part of a Humanitarian Ideology

Question:

Relating to my previous post, I want to encourage people to read Luke 18:9-14.

Response:

@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu says… Relating to my previous post, I want to encourage people to read Luke 18:9-14.

Why would anyone (most people that is) who don’t share your particular superstitions wish to study your book of myth? Especially since the topic of the NG (talk. abortion) is discussion about abortion - an issue which isn’t even mentioned in your book of religious myths and speculations… and hence is totally irrelevant6 to the issue.

Response:

: Jack says: : Sam, : 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are : ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having : to be threatened by hell-fire to do it. : : Who said anything about the thread of hell-fire? Our deeds don’t save : us. Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the : salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for : salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our : good works. : Apparently you are a Paulist and not a Christian. Jesus in Matthew : 25:31 ff. set up clear criteria for going to heaven: feed the hungry, : clothe the naked etc. They are necessary and sufficient. "Grace" or : "faith" are not mentioned. : I guess that following *those* criteria is too tiresome for most : Christians. "Trusting in Jesus for salvation" is so much easier ….. How DARE you suggest that the Bible, which is God’s Word from beginning to end, contradicts itself! The Bible is perfectly consistent. Human nature is inherently corrupt and depraved, because of Adam’s fall. Thus, without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, obtained through Jesus’ Name, we are unable to do any good things except for invalidating selfish reasons. So what saves us is faith, by which we obtain the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Once we *get* those gifts, however, what we will do is go around feeding the hungry, tending the sick, and clothing the naked and so on. Because that’s what the Holy Spirit is *for* … making it possible, finally, for us sinful, depraved humans to start obeying God and doing what is good! We are saved by grace, not by our own works… AND faith without works is dead. So if you’re a sinner, don’t try starting by working for charity while still an unbeliever, it will do no good. First, accept Jesus into your heart! But anyone who says he has accepted Jesus into his heart, and isn’t *now* going around doing good works is a phony. It’s simple and easy to understand, and there is no basis for your claim that there is a contradiction here. John Savard

Response:

… How DARE you suggest that the Bible, which is God’s Word from beginning to end, contradicts itself! The Bible is perfectly consistent.

… PROVERBS 6:16-19 There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: … anyone sending forth contentions among brothers. MATTHEW 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes [shall be] they of his own household. IF the Bible is consistent, than God hates Jesus.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having to be threatened by hell-fire to do it. Who said anything about the thread of hell-fire? Our deeds don’t save us. Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our good works. Apparently you are a Paulist and not a Christian. Jesus in Matthew 25:31 ff. set up clear criteria for going to heaven: feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc. They are necessary and sufficient. "Grace" or "faith" are not mentioned. I guess that following *those* criteria is too tiresome for most Christians. "Trusting in Jesus for salvation" is so much easier ….. How DARE you suggest that the Bible, which is God’s Word from beginning to end, contradicts itself!

Only because it sometimes DOES. Most of it commands us to show love and compassion to our neighbors. but part of it *condones* SLAVERY. The Bible is perfectly consistent.

Try, "MOSTLY" consistent, or "consistent to an amazing extent," and THEN you’d be accurate. Human nature is inherently corrupt and depraved, because of Adam’s fall.

Possibly. IF there were an actual Adam, rather that that story being one of the Bible’s many analogies/parables. As is far more likely, with the world’s being so FILLED with proof of an evolutionary process. And if so – how STRANGE for God to impose such a hateful situation upon generations that had NOTHING do do with Adam’s mistake… Thus, without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, obtained through Jesus’ Name, we are unable to do any good things except for invalidating selfish reasons.

Tell that to the non-Christian who does as good a job of that as most Christians. So what saves us is faith, by which we obtain the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Salvation and having Holy Spirit guidance being two separate things, even though they usually occur together… Once we *get* those gifts, however, what we will do is go around feeding the hungry, tending the sick, and clothing the naked and so on. Because that’s what the Holy Spirit is *for* … making it possible, finally, for us sinful, depraved humans to start obeying God and doing what is good!

Tell that to the non-Christian who does as good a job of that as most Christians. We are saved by grace, not by our own works… AND faith without works is dead. So if you’re a sinner, don’t try starting by working for charity while still an unbeliever, it will do no good.

Yeah. Charities just HATE it when non-Christians help them. First, accept Jesus into your heart!

Right. THEN you are entitled to *combine* your work for the charity with your own selfish desire to go to heaven. (No wonder so many NON-Christians look upon us as hypocrites, if they see THIS sort of reasoning.) But anyone who says he has accepted Jesus into his heart, and isn’t *now* going around doing good works is a phony. It’s simple and easy to understand, and there is no basis for your claim that there is a contradiction here.

So… in the light of that you just now said, isn’t it AMAZING that SO MANY people who are *atheists* live moral and exemplary lives????

Response:

: So… in the light of that you just now said, isn’t it AMAZING that : SO MANY people who are *atheists* live moral and exemplary lives???? I said that the Bible was consistent (or rather that the specific example given did not constitute a demonstration of inconsistency on the part of the Bible)… not that I agreed with it. Unlike the response of a Christian poster, which made the same point, it should have been clear that my post presented the traditionalist Christian viewpoint of this issue in a light tone, if anything, verging on mockery thereof. John Savard

Response:

Saving babies from the violence of abortion and helping women find hope and alternatives to abortion is part of a humanitarian ideology. To me it is the same ideology that makes me want to help depressed people and work in suicide prevention. There is a big need for that. Also, I have an interest in inproving conditions in nursing homes and giving nursing home residents a better life. All of this is part of the same ideology for the benefit, support and help of our fellow people. My belief in Jesus Christ teaches me to help humanity. Working to save babies from being killed in abortion and helping women find good alternatives to abortion is a humanitarian cause just like helping depressed people is a humanitarian cause. -Sam

Response:

Saving babies from the violence of abortion …

There you go again, Sam, making a total nutball of yourself in public. Since ALL *babies* have been BORN, and therefore abortion (which is the opposite of violence… it is an enormously- beneficial REMEDY) has absolutely NOTHING to do with them. <remaining utter bullcrap snipped

Response:

Sam, 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having to be threatened by hell-fire to do it. 2) If you really want to provide alternatives to abortion – foster or adopt a high-needs child. 3) Babies are not harmed by abortions – abortions are when zygotes and embryos are removed from the womb – no babies involved. Best Wishes, Jack

Response:

@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu says… Newsgroups: talk.abortion, alt.abortion, alt.activism, soc.women, us.issues.abortion Saving babies from the violence of abortion and helping women find hope and alternatives to abortion

Since no babies are ever aborted, and women already know that there are only two possibilities to a pregnancy ending (birth or abortion), clearly women don’t need your smarmy lies about some imaginary (on your part) other ways a pregnancy can end!

Response:

Jack says: Sam, 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having to be threatened by hell-fire to do it.

Who said anything about the thread of hell-fire? Our deeds don’t save us. Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our good works. -Sam

Response:

@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu says… Jack says: Sam, 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having to be threatened by hell-fire to do it. Who said anything about the thread of hell-fire? Our deeds don’t save us. Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our good works. -Sam

Since there is nothing that can be shown that we can be saved *from*, why should *your* gobbldegook have any relevance to other people’s lives?

Response:

Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our good works. -Sam

I’d rather not be subjected to the religious brainwashing that has turned you into the mindless drone that you are.

Response:

Jack says: Sam, 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having to be threatened by hell-fire to do it. Who said anything about the thread of hell-fire? Our deeds don’t save us. Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our good works.

Which means that these so-called "christians" can commit any crime, any sin, any atrocity and argue that it’s "okay" because they have been "saved". Which explains a great deal about what people like Sam post. — Ray Fischer

Response:

Apparently you are a Paulist and not a Christian. Jesus in Matthew 25:31 ff. set up clear criteria for going to heaven: feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc. They are necessary and sufficient. "Grace" or "faith" are not mentioned. I guess that following *those* criteria is too tiresome for most Christians. "Trusting in Jesus for salvation" is so much easier ….. HRG.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jack says: Sam, 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having to be threatened by hell-fire to do it. Who said anything about the thread of hell-fire? Our deeds don’t save us. Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our good works. Apparently you are a Paulist and not a Christian. Jesus in Matthew 25:31 ff. set up clear criteria for going to heaven: feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc. They are necessary and sufficient. "Grace" or "faith" are not mentioned.

Thanks, HR. I wasn’t aware of the stipulation. Not only do they seek mandatory pregnancy, but they don’t feed and clothe the women and their offspring. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess that following *those* criteria is too tiresome for most Christians. "Trusting in Jesus for salvation" is so much easier ….. HRG.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jack says: Sam, 1) If you need to believe in a sky-god to help others then you are ill. Most people can see the benefit of helping others without having to be threatened by hell-fire to do it. Who said anything about the thread of hell-fire? Our deeds don’t save us. Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for salvation. Read Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved through grace, not our good works. Apparently you are a Paulist and not a Christian. Jesus in Matthew 25:31 ff. set up clear criteria for going to heaven: feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc. They are necessary and sufficient. "Grace" or "faith" are not mentioned.

Matthew doesn’t contradict Ephesians. We are saved through grace and it’s NOT of ourself (not as a result of works). However, when someone has true faith, you can expect works. You ignored my post which said, "Our deeds should be our response to God’s goodness and the salvation that we already have since we trusted in Jesus for salvation. If works don’t follow then someone probably doesn’t have true faith. However, we don’t rely on our deeds to save us, but solely on the grace of God through Jesus’ sacrifice for OUR sins. I guess that following *those* criteria is too tiresome for most Christians. "Trusting in Jesus for salvation" is so much easier …..

NONE of us are good enough to earn salvation, not even someone who has done as much as Mother Teresa. We have the problem of sin and our good works don’t pay the penalty for the sins. We need Jesus Christ and for Him to pay on our behalf. To believe that we can earn our way to a right relationship with God would be to be arrogance. Our deeds should not be done in self-righteousness and arrogance. We can’t boast in our salvation because we didn’t earn it. It is by grace, NOT by our good deeds. That is consistent with Jesus’ teachings. -Sam

Response:

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