Alimony is Ridiculous

Question:

There are cases where it could be justified, but certainly not ALL. The problem isn’t alimony. It is the "justice" system that puts people in neat little boxes for their convenience so they won’t have to do what we are paying them to do: to JUDGE. Their proponents claim that without this generic, one-size-fits-all system that the courts would be overwhelmed. I would submit that the opposite could be the case: That No-fault divorce laws are a major contributor to the increase in divorce rates. Think about it: If you KNEW that there would be a hefty sanction placed against you if you broke your wedding vows, wouldn’t you think twice before doing it?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I’ll get some people (likely women) who will disagree withe me, but, I cannot see how the current system of men paying alimony to women can be defended. After 15 yrs. of marriage, I have to pay my wife alimony for 5 yrs of $750 a month. Even though she has 2 college degrees, hasn’t worked for years by choice (no kids last several years), and was actually, pretty worthless as a wife through the entire course of the marriage. I mean, if I was the breadwinner that alimony supposes, where was she as the housewife? The answer, nowhere! Off with her buddies most of the time (ie: women "bitching" about their husbands and half of them "screwing around"), and you can forget cooking, cleaning, or much of anything else, she was just looking for "kicks." Even now at age 53, she must have her boyfriends, booze and "smokes." What a worthless *!&*!. Of course, I made the mistake of sticking with it and believing in the institution. As for the feminists who believe in alimony, most men who divorce remarry in the first couple years after (4 out of 5 remarry), just like most women. So, it’s only the new family and the new wife who really gets screwed. While the ex is off on vacations and socking money away in the bank!

Response:

And if your lawyer was worth the price he charged, he would’ve e worded that agreement to stipulate that if she lives with or remarries someone, alimony ends. If it isn’t in yours, maybe you can see if it can be modified.

My judgment reads that spousal support ceases if "…the defendant remarries, or cohabitates with an unrelated male on a full time basis who provides support." She was already "living with" her b/f, but maintaining a "residence" where my sons were living. It was left to me to prove it. The opportunity to do so was never allowed. Such clauses sometimes turn out to be meaningless. Just an observation.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And if your lawyer was worth the price he charged, he would’ve e worded that agreement to stipulate that if she lives with or remarries someone, alimony ends. If it isn’t in yours, maybe you can see if it can be modified. My judgment reads that spousal support ceases if "…the defendant remarries, or cohabitates with an unrelated male on a full time basis who provides support." She was already "living with" her b/f, but maintaining a "residence" where my sons were living. It was left to me to prove it. The opportunity to do so was never allowed. Such clauses sometimes turn out to be meaningless. Just an observation.

and it’s also possible to cohabitate with someone, yet they are not providing financial "support", especially if they are sharing expenses. Technically, if you go thru the "room for rent" ads, pick one out and move into a house with another family, either pay rent or keep house/cook/clean/babysit/house-sit/pet-sit/whatever in return for a room, are you not "cohabitating" with that family’s members? Could be tricky to prove… A live-in housekeeper or nanny isn’t necessarily "cohabitating" with others in the household, are they? The senior-citizen or college student who rents out the "spare room" isn’t necessarily one’s "partner"… But who could prove otherwise and how?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One might reasonably ask that if you were the breadwinner and she was a stay-at-home wife doing the domestics, once the marriage is over and she is no longer providing these ’services’….what the hell is the $750 per month for? Well, for me it’s called "child support", even though I just figured the kids are with me most of the time. I’d think if it really was "child support", then *I’d* be collecting it, not paying it. Heck, that’s what the law says, anyway. I think it just has something to do with being a guy though, and going to court.

I think it was Robin Williams who said something like, "Divorce, from the Latin for ‘ripping a man’s balls off through his wallet.’" — Christopher Nelson, Senior Software Engineer Pinebush Technologies, Inc. Author: Tcl/Tk Programmer’s Reference http://www.purl.org/net/TclTkProgRef

Response:

Well, for me it’s called "child support", even though I just figured the kids are with me most of the time. Why not document the amount of time the kids are with you and try to get the support amount changed? Or are you (like a lot of fathers) just grateful to be seeing the kids as much as you do?

Well, yes, I am. I figure it is about the only time I am really happy. This stuff came up at the referee’s hearing, and was not considered in the final decision. What I "got" was a $13 dollar a week credit because I have to commute 4 hours a day so I can live near my kids. I’d change jobs, but I owe a couple hundred thousand or something on the business, I don’t mind that so much, but having had to buy it *again* from the kids’ mom kinda sticks in my craw. Shoot, I have *never* heard of a guy who got a bit of consideration for Putting Wifey Through, she got the master’s degree, half the value of the business, and full boat on the child support. And I am considered "lucky" for a father in Maine. I contacted my lawyer, Child Support Collection, heck, the governor’s office and anyone else I could think of to get the child support changed, but while they are quick to sock fathers, they are incredibly slow about taking into account *decreases* in c/s. Actually, in Maine the courts have pretty much ignored the c/s law up to the Maine Supreme Court level as far as assessing fair child suport. (See Maine DHS v. MacDougall, decided 2001 to see what a *man* has to go through to get the Maine law applied in child support cases. Interesting case, the Superior Court justice that was overruled in that case has made, what I think, are pretty insensative public statements about men.) Since I have given up on fairness and justice from the courts, though, I am able to keep my sanity. The guys that go crazy are the guys who keep expecting fairness and law from family court. Best – Fido

Response:

Well, for me it’s called "child support", even though I just figured the kids are with me most of the time. I’d think if it really was "child support", then *I’d* be collecting it, not paying it. Heck, that’s what the law says, anyway. I think it just has something to do with being a guy though, and going to court. Best – Fido – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Well, for me it’s called "child support", even though I just figured the kids are with me most of the time.

Why not document the amount of time the kids are with you and try to get the support amount changed? Or are you (like a lot of fathers) just grateful to be seeing the kids as much as you do?

Response:

I know I’ll get some people (likely women) who will disagree withe me, but, I cannot see how the current system of men paying alimony to women can be defended. After 15 yrs. of marriage, I have to pay my wife alimony for 5 yrs of $750 a month. Even though she has 2 college degrees, hasn’t worked for years by choice (no kids last several years), and was actually, pretty worthless as a wife through the entire course of the marriage. I mean, if I was the breadwinner that alimony supposes, where was she as the housewife? The answer, nowhere! Off with her buddies most of the time (ie: women "bitching" about their husbands and half of them "screwing around"), and you can forget cooking, cleaning, or much of anything else, she was just looking for "kicks." Even now at age 53, she must have her boyfriends, booze and "smokes." What a worthless *!&*!. Of course, I made the mistake of sticking with it and believing in the institution. As for the feminists who believe in alimony, most men who divorce remarry in the first couple years after (4 out of 5 remarry), just like most women. So, it’s only the new family and the new wife who really gets screwed. While the ex is off on vacations and socking money away in the bank!

Response:

There are some cases where it is needed and IMO ‘deserved’. If what you say about your former spouse is accurate, then there would be little reason for alimony. Especially considering the fact that she has two degrees. But there are situations that don’t fall into line with your scenario. I helped my stbx pay for his BA and I helped him get through his Masters. Now he’s decided to run off with someone else……well, the sacrifices we paid for him to get those degrees were born by both of us. The decision to have me be a sahm was a joint decision, actually pushed and encouraged by him. Now, he’s making a very hefty six figure salary, and you think I should be put out on the street, cuz alimony isn’t FAIR?? What he has done to me and our family wasn’t fair. Remember everyone’s situation is very different. And it’s okay to rant and rave about the unfairness of your own situation, but why lump everyone in one pot? And if your lawyer was worth the price he charged, he would’ve e worded that agreement to stipulate that if she lives with or remarries someone, alimony ends. If it isn’t in yours, maybe you can see if it can be modified. Good luck….. Cal~ (And for the record, although I was "entitled" to much more that I received, my plans are to end alimony when I can earn enough that I can stand on my own feet. It’s a matter of self-esteem for me, and I know several others who feel the same.)

Response:

Sounds like your ex was a real winner, and it’s tragic… Hope that if/when you become one of those 4 out of 5 who do remarry, you’ll find someone who is very much different from your ex. Believe me, we females are not all like her. (just like i believe that all males are not like my ex)…

Response:

One might reasonably ask that if you were the breadwinner and she was a stay-at-home wife doing the domestics, once the marriage is over and she is no longer providing these ’services’….what the hell is the $750 per month for? Peter — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Cars, french perfume, diamonds and bonbons? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I’ll get some people (likely women) who will disagree withe me, but, I cannot see how the current system of men paying alimony to women can be defended. After 15 yrs. of marriage, I have to pay my wife alimony for 5 yrs of $750 a month. Even though she has 2 college degrees, hasn’t worked for years by choice (no kids last several years), and was actually, pretty worthless as a wife through the entire course of the marriage. I mean, if I was the breadwinner that alimony supposes, where was she as the housewife? The answer, nowhere! Off with her buddies most of the time (ie: women "bitching" about their husbands and half of them "screwing around"), and you can forget cooking, cleaning, or much of anything else, she was just looking for "kicks." Even now at age 53, she must have her boyfriends, booze and "smokes." What a worthless *!&*!. Of course, I made the mistake of sticking with it and believing in the institution. As for the feminists who believe in alimony, most men who divorce remarry in the first couple years after (4 out of 5 remarry), just like most women. So, it’s only the new family and the new wife who really gets screwed. While the ex is off on vacations and socking money away in the bank! There are some cases where it is needed and IMO ‘deserved’. If what you say about your former spouse is accurate, then there would be little reason for alimony. Especially considering the fact that she has two degrees. But there are situations that don’t fall into line with your scenario. I helped my stbx pay for his BA and I helped him get through his Masters. Now he’s decided to run off with someone else……well, the sacrifices we paid for him to get those degrees were born by both of us. The decision to have me be a sahm was a joint decision, actually pushed and encouraged by him. Now, he’s making a very hefty six figure salary, and you think I should be put out on the street, cuz alimony isn’t FAIR?? What he has done to me and our family wasn’t fair. Remember everyone’s situation is very different. And it’s okay to rant and rave about the unfairness of your own situation, but why lump everyone in one pot? And if your lawyer was worth the price he charged, he would’ve e worded that agreement to stipulate that if she lives with or remarries someone, alimony ends. If it isn’t in yours, maybe you can see if it can be modified. Good luck….. Cal~ (And for the record, although I was "entitled" to much more that I received, my plans are to end alimony when I can earn enough that I can stand on my own feet. It’s a matter of self-esteem for me, and I know several others who feel the same.)

Cal: The problem here in Florida, and I think elsewhere, is the law. In your situation I can see your point about receiving some compensation. In mine, I’m caught; first of all, the law here does not regard adultery as any negative unless you can prove it changes the basis of support. Otherwise, it means absolutely nothing from a divorcing point of view. You have to actually prove that the spouse is getting cash, gifts (and come up with the receipts) to argue this. Even if you know otherwise it means nothing. Second of all the only thing the court sees is the income difference, never mind much else. Never mind that my ex-spouse tried to run a couple businesses and lost tens of thousands of dollars (even though I told her repeatedly to give it up because she did not know what she was doing), and as for college degrees, unless she is actually in the job market using these specific degrees within the last few years, forget it as a basis for any argument. All the court sees is, "I make $63K, she makes $20K, married 15 yrs, and therefore I must pay. On our settlement, yes, I have it worked in alimony stops if she remarries, but, she fought me on the cohabitation issue and I had to drop it. If I had pursued it, her lawyer would have gone after me for more years, more alimony and permanent alimony – talk about being really screwed! I also talked with a lot of lawyers and they all told me the same thing about what I had to settle for -"accept it and take your lumps." Yes, I could have gone to trial and maybe a judge would have understood, or maybe I would have gotten a judge (my luck) with some point to prove about what men should pay (legal activism or something) and I decided the risk wasn’t worth it. On all this by the way, my point is not to lump all women in the same group, I just got a bad apple unfortunately and have to deal with it. But the laws should be more specific on this alimony thing and require a careful analysis, not just x years and x dollars equals x amount that must be payed! JOE

Response:

Oh… slam DUNK, Fido. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

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