"Reclaiming America for Bigotry"

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect. "Suspect?" You are QUITE the bigot, aren’t you? A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t give a flying rat’s ass WHAT a person’s sexual orientation might be. A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t make their sexual orientation into a political issue… Then why express your negative opinion about homosexuals? I was expressing a negative opinion about those who use spurious arguments to redefine marriage,… Interesting. Since NO arguments favoring same-sex marriage are spurious! This is why, to the furious chagrin of the ‘phobes, we have been winning our cause consistently before the courts. In the court-room, the spurious, the absurd, the silly, stuff is stripped away by the rules of evidence, melted by the scrutiny of logic. This is why the ‘phobes are so crazed — they just simply. "don’t get it."

And knowing bigots, most of them, unfortunately never will. Even though I still dpon’t know of any studies on this, I would not be a BIT surprised to learn that most people having so brain- dead a mindset can be found WITHIN that group of 5,600,000 Americans wh have IQs of 62 and lower. (And whenever I point out that possibility, I always give CREDIT to the millions of people in that group who are able to COMPENSATE for that handicap, and be functional and satisfied members of society.) So when THIS loathsome agenda of bigotry takes its final ride to the bottom of the Drain of Extinction, we’ll see most of those bigots going into the closet AS bigots, rather than face the ridicule of their peers. Leaving us to wonder what NEW target they’ll ultimately settle on. Because bigots are only happy when they can be HATEFUL to people. Gives them a sense of power in their pitiful and disfunctional, **nothing** lives. ward "You can’t claim you’re the party of smaller government, and then clamor to make laws about love. If there’s one area I don’t want the US government to add to its list of screw-ups, it’s love." Bill Maher

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To redefine marriage as an institution that integrates the sexes based on their inherent differences. To have the government sanction their relationships as *the same as or equavalent to* heterosexual marriage. They’re not. Gays have the same rights as others, …except for, let’s see: marriage, military service, etc.

Military service and governmental recognition of your relationship are not rights. –S

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Changing the definition of marriage is the one we were discussing – where have you been?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect. "Suspect?" You are QUITE the bigot, aren’t you? A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t give a flying rat’s ass WHAT a person’s sexual orientation might be. A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t make their sexual orientation into a political issue… Then why express your negative opinion about homosexuals? I was expressing a negative opinion about those who use spurious arguments to redefine marriage,… Intersting. Since NO arguments favoring same-sex marriage are spurious!

Your opinion. Others beg to differ. …but I see you’re not much brighter than Craig. An OBJECTIVE and intelligent outside observer reading the posts in these groups for a few days or weeks would almost surely conclude that it would probably take at least 100 bigots, *combined*, to equal the common sense and fairness that is possessed by any *one* egalitarian.

Nah, and objective and intelligent outsider may or may not agree with my position, but would note that I’m using some semblance of logic to support it, as opposed to the vitriolic foaming you are engaged in…

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Sorry to see that you’re so addled that you have to resort to such ignorant and hateful remarks, Craig. See, I’m all for INDIVIDUAL rights, but not SPECIAL RIGHTS for certain groups of people merely who choose abnormal behavior. Name ONE "special right" gays are seeking. Changing the definition of marriage is the one we were discussing – where have you been?

That’s not a special right. Anyone can do so that wishes and can gather enough support or earn recognition by the courts. Where’ve you been? — "Reports that say something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know." – Donald Rumsfeld,

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Intersting. Since NO arguments favoring same-sex marriage are spurious! …but I see you’re not much brighter than Craig.

An OBJECTIVE and intelligent outside observer reading the posts in these groups for a few days or weeks would almost surely conclude that it would probably take at least 100 bigots, *combined*, to equal the common sense and fairness that is possessed by any *one* egalitarian. And that’s conservative. It might take closer to 1,000 bigots, and even that many might not suffice. And Kris runs CIRCLES around you in that regard.

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Name ONE "special right" gays are seeking. Gays have the same rights as others,

…except for, let’s see: marriage, military service, etc.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect. "Suspect?" You are QUITE the bigot, aren’t you? A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t give a flying rat’s ass WHAT a person’s sexual orientation might be. A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t make their sexual orientation into a political issue… Then why express your negative opinion about homosexuals? I was expressing a negative opinion about those who use spurious arguments to redefine marriage,… Intersting. Since NO arguments favoring same-sex marriage are spurious!

This is why, to the furious chagrin of the ‘phobes, we have been winning our cause consistently before the courts., In the court-room the spurious, the absurd, the silly, stuff is stripped away by the rules of evidence, melted by the scrutiny of logic. This is why the ‘phobes are so crazed — they just simply. "don’t get it." ward "You can’t claim you’re the party of smaller government, and then clamor to make laws about love. If there’s one area I don’t want the US government to add to its list of screw-ups, it’s love." Bill Maher

Response:

Sorry to see that you’re so addled that you have to resort to such ignorant and hateful remarks, Craig. See, I’m all for INDIVIDUAL rights, but not SPECIAL RIGHTS for certain groups of people merely who choose abnormal behavior. Name ONE "special right" gays are seeking. To redefine marriage as an institution that integrates the sexes based on their inherent differences.

A definition and a right are different things. Not to mention the fact that alongside gays, there are even MORE straights fighting to eliminate bigotry from the "definition" of marriage. To have the government sanction their relationships as *the same as or equavalent to* heterosexual marriage.

In other words, EQUAL rights. Not special rights. They way you would have it is marriage being a special right for straights. They’re not.

Bigot. Gays have the same rights as others, …except for, let’s see: marriage, military service, etc. Military service and governmental recognition of your relationship are not rights.

Everybody has a right not to be discriminated against by the government which represents them. What part of "equal rights for all" don’t you understand? — Peacenik

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I properly recognize a bigot as any person who seeks to discriminate against any other person or group solely based upon a TRIVIAL difference in their beliefs, *private* behavior, or appearance. And that is NOT an extreme view. The extreme view clearly is that being held by the person ignorant enough to be a bigot. That is a provable lie.

Wrong. See below. You have called me a bigot, yet you have no evidence that I "seek to discriminate against any other person or group solely based upon a TRIVIAL difference in their beliefs, *private* behavior, or appearance."

One wouldn’t have to look far. You have **publicly** opposed EQUAL rights for gays to get married in most of your recent posts. Since sexual behavior in **private** between consenting, non-family- member adults is the *private* behavior of concern in this… and since such sex between same-sex partners is **normal** for gays, who were born with their orientation… just as people are born right- handed and left-handed… you HAVE provided direct evidence of seeking to discrimanate against a group of millions of people over a totally TRIVIAL matter. And that DOES make you a hateful bigot.

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Sorry to see that you’re so addled that you have to resort to such ignorant and hateful remarks, Craig. See, I’m all for INDIVIDUAL rights, but not SPECIAL RIGHTS for certain groups of people merely who choose abnormal behavior. Name ONE "special right" gays are seeking. Changing the definition of marriage is the one we were discussing — where have you been?

When the U.S. Supeme Court struck down the laws of 17 states that banned interracial marriage, it DID just that. JUST as dramatically as *this* will. That was 37 years, ago, and American society was ENHANCED by that inclusion. This will be no different, and 5 years after it happens, people won’t even give it a second thought anymore. And in BOTH cases, NO "special" rights were involved. Recognition of the EQUAL right of interracial couples to marry was conferred, just as recognition of the EQUAL right of same- sex couples to marry WILL be conferred. Both instances are simply the CORRECTION of hateful INequities.

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I proerly recognize a bigot as any person who seeks to discriminate against any other person or group solely based upon a TRIVIAL difference in their beliefs, *private* behavior, or appearance. And that is NOT an extreme view. The extreme view clearly is that being held by the person ignorant enough to be a bigot.

That is a provable lie. You have called me a bigot, yet you have no evidence that I "seek to discriminate against any other person or group solely based upon a TRIVIAL difference in their beliefs, *private* behavior, or appearance." William R. James

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect. "Suspect?" You are QUITE the bigot, aren’t you? A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t give a flying rat’s ass WHAT a person’s sexual orientation might be. A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t make their sexual orientation into a political issue… Then why express your negative opinion about homosexuals? I was expressing a negative opinion about those who use spurious arguments to redefine marriage,… Intersting. Since NO arguments favoring same-sex marriage are spurious! Your opinion. Others beg to differ.

They’re sure keeping QUIET then, since no one that I know of in here or anywhere else has YET managed to provide ANY valid reason for denying. It’s ALL opinion, and NO **facts**. Here’s your big chance to be the FIRST person to come up with one. Unless I’m right… and NO such fact exists. In which case you would, of course, find that to be impossible. …but I see you’re not much brighter than Craig. An OBJECTIVE and intelligent outside observer reading the posts in these groups for a few days or weeks would almost surely conclude that it would probably take at least 100 bigots, *combined*, to equal the common sense and fairness that is possessed by any *one* egalitarian. Nah, and objective and intelligent outsider may or may not agree with my position, but would note that I’m using some semblance of logic to support it, as opposed to the vitriolic foaming you are engaged in…

Defending people’s liberties with FACT-based arguments is what I so, and is quite the OPPOSITE of what you just described.The DENY a reasonable libert to people, one needs to have GOOD reasons. You have NONE. Thus, *you* are the one doing all the vitriolic foaming. Keeping yout verbiage some- what in check doesn’t negate that. At bottom, you are just as bigoted, and just as mindless, as are the more extreme of your ilk in here. To argue against person liberties *without* having any relevant **facts** to back your stance is not all all logical… not even a "semblance" of it.

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(You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect. "Suspect?" You are QUITE the bigot, aren’t you? A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t give a flying rat’s ass WHAT a person’s sexual orientation might be.

A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t make their sexual orientation into a political issue so that everyone in the world would KNOW what they did. (I noticed you posted the same crap twice – I have responded elswhere in this tread – no need to duplicate it here…)

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Then why express your negative opinion about homosexuals?

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I was expressing a negative opinion about those who use spurious arguments to redefine marriage, but I see you’re not much brighter than Craig.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s not what the eight oligarchical leaders of the RRR Cult call it, but that’s exactly what their annual crusade against individual liberties, held at D. James Kennedy’s Fort Lauderdale, FL headquarters **IS**. Just as his hourly-long TV program is a hate-fest about 3/4 of the time, and would be far more accurately named, "The Bigotry Hour" than "The Coral Ridge Hour," the same is true of the conference that they call, "Reclaiming America for Christ." Every year, after **months** of hyping it in syndication over network TV, and over cable’s Trinity Broadcasting Network, Kennedy manages to con people into attending it from all over this nation of 290,000,000 people. Or 320 million, if one counts the Canadians. To listen to the very MOST bigoted speakers in North America delivering a pep rally to their lemmings that would rival any KKK rally. of millions of people, all Kennedy can eek out in terms of attendance… is only around a mere 1,200 or so. To the sensible egalitarians of America (which includes countless of millions of ACTUAL Christians (as opposed to being RRR cultists)… just keep right on fighting for fairness, equal rights, and individual liberties. We out- number the bigots EXPONENTIALLY, and if we *avoid* apathy, and keep active, we CAN make North America a Bigotry-Free Continent! And we can do it SOON! I noticed you had no specifics to discuss… "NO specifics?" So, then I *didn’t* provide such specifics as THESE, above? — – The RRR cult has an oligarchical leadership. – Its leadership consists of eight primary leaders. – One of those leaders organizes a pep rally for lemmings of the RRR to attend. – That particular leader is D. James Kennedy. – The badly named rally is called "Reclaiming America for Christ" — even though, in *reality*, it is an effort to reclaim America for BIGOTRY. – The rally is held annually. – Speakers for the rally are culled from the cream of bigotry’s crop. – The rally is held at D. James Kennedy’s HQ in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. – The rally is promoted for months beforehand. – The promotions are made on Kennedy’s own syndicated broadcasts, on network TV stations. – About 3/4 of the time, Kennedy spews bigotry on his TV show. – The promotions also are made over the Trinity Broadcasting Network. – Despite months of advance hyping the rally to millions of people, average attendance at the event is only a paltry 1,200 or so. That’s more than a DOZEN very specific points. So you either are a pathological liar, or you are a **profoundly** stupid person. Very likely both. AND — as I’ve pointed out later in this post, we can recall (at those upcoming junctures) that your claim, above, that I "had no specifics to discuss" was one more proof of your DISHONESTY. You’re blathering, assuming that everyone who doesn’t agree with your extreme views is a bigot. Wrong on two counts. I proerly recognize a bigot as any person who seeks to discriminate against any other person or group solely based upon a TRIVIAL difference in their beliefs, *private* behavior, or appearance.

Ah, but is discrimination alone "bigotry"? I discriminate against unwashed, unkempt individuals with obvious health problems by avoiding them – is that bigotry? When hiring people for an employer, I discriminate against people who don’t have the necessary job skills, a questionable job history, and a lack of demonstrable interest in the job – is that also bigotry? Even so, the fact of the matter is that the marriage laws do NOT discriminate on the basis of sexual preference, nor is there any requirement that the people marrying love each other. All it says is that those people must be of the opposite sex – no reference or prohibition regarding preference whatsoever. Once again, your objection is not based on any codified discrimination on the basis of sexual preference – it’s based on the shaky and laughable assumption that the law is discriminatory merely because some subset of the populate WISHES to break said law. Again, the law does not even refer to the subset, much less place any restrictions on them – the subset merely has to abide by the same condition that is placed on all other groups. You’re histrionics suggest that your obsession is based more on your emotional tendencies and narcissistic desire for attention, as opposed to any sober and rational analysis of the issue at hand. And that is NOT an extreme view. The extreme view clearly is that being held by the person ignorant enough to be a bigot.

It IS an extreme view that is far from the mainstream interpretation of marriage. Note again that I’m necessarily stating that all extreme views are wrong – I’m merely stating that it’s so far outside the mainstream that most people view it as ridiculous, offense, or in some cases, both. (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect. "Suspect?" You are QUITE the bigot, aren’t you? A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t give a flying rat’s ass WHAT a person’s sexual orientation might be.

As I stated, I find it interesting that an allegedly married straight man in his 60’s would get so worked up over this… It’s not just the fact that you have a particular opinion on this subject (even a strong one), but the fact that it’s such a hot-button issue with you that has totally consumed you – look at your hysterica headers and the time you have spent propagating this thread If it were the 1960s, and Usenet had existed then, I **surely** would have been saying these SAME things on a newsgroup dedicated to problems being faced by blacks — even though I’m Caucasion.

Fact of the matter is that I came from a family of civil-rights advocates ("freedom riders" and those who supported them) who were indeed passionate and dedicated about their cause – yet despite the fact that real injustices (rather than the imagined ones you inflate into major issues) were being inflicted on black people, their behavior never even came CLOSE to the level of histrionics exhibited by you regarding this issue. Then again, they were for the most part rational, mentally balanced individuals – whether you are of similar composure is questionable. You clearly are an idiot.

You clearly are prone to hyperbole, which tends to diminish your credibility… And to date, I have never even *attended* a "Gay Pride" event, much less "competed" in one. Well, I would hate to think of what type of competitive events they would have at a "Gay Pride" event anyway. YOU are the one who came up with that stupid idea.

I merely did some research and asked you a yes-or-no question, and accepted your answer at face value. You have a major problem with me doing that? Standing up for individual liberties is not "gay rights stuff." It is advocacy of EQUAL treatment in ALL ways for ALL Americans. You are QUITE the hateful little bigot, aren’t you? Sorry to see that you’re so addled that you have to resort to such ignorant and hateful remarks, Craig. They’re not NEARLY as addled, ignorant and hateful as were the ones of *yours* that I just snipped due to their sheer idiocy. Anything I’ve been saying about you is in the form of **accurate descriptors** that you first EARNED for yourself.

Again, Craig, your definition is based merely on the fact that I disagree with your assertion that same-sex marriage is a legitimate legal cause. Given that you can’t accept that people can have legitimate reasons for disagreement, and feel compelled to label them "haters" and "bigots", you have identified yourself as an extremist regarding this issue. See, I’m all for INDIVIDUAL rights, but not SPECIAL RIGHTS for certain groups of people merely who choose abnormal behavior. Ah. So you admit to being one of those loons that are ignorant enough to have fallen hook, line, and sinker for the RRR cult’s lying propaganda.

No, I’m merely a skeptic of "judicial activism" and those who float specious interpretations of laws in order to push their own political agenda, ESPECIALLY when discussions of such laws are greeted by hysteria and emotional accusations such as those you have exhibited through the main body of your posts to this thread. I DO acknowledge that laws are far from perfect, and that some laws need to be modified or even repealed from time to time. However, I also submit that changes in laws need to be done through the appropriate (state or federal) constitutional process, and not arbitrarily by judges, politicians, or bureaucrats. I ALSO … read more »

Response:

AND — as I’ve pointed out later in this post, we can recall (at those upcoming junctures) that your claim, above, that I "had no specifics to discuss" was one more proof of your DISHONESTY. You’re blathering, assuming that everyone who doesn’t agree with your extreme views is a bigot.

Wrong on two counts. I proerly recognize a bigot as any person who seeks to discriminate against any other person or group solely based upon a TRIVIAL difference in their beliefs, *private* behavior, or appearance. And that is NOT an extreme view. The extreme view clearly is that being held by the person ignorant enough to be a bigot. (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect.

"Suspect?" You are QUITE the bigot, aren’t you? A SENSIBLE person wouldn’t give a flying rat’s ass WHAT a person’s sexual orientation might be. <stupidity-snip If it were the 1960s, and Usenet had existed then, I **surely** would have been saying these SAME things on a newsgroup dedicated to problems being faced by blacks — even though I’m Caucasion. You clearly are an idiot. And to date, I have never even *attended* a "Gay Pride" event, much less "competed" in one. Well, I would hate to think of what type of competitive events they would have at a "Gay Pride" event anyway.

YOU are the one who came up with that stupid idea. Standing up for individual liberties is not "gay rights stuff." It is advocacy of EQUAL treatment in ALL ways for ALL Americans. You are QUITE the hateful little bigot, aren’t you? Sorry to see that you’re so addled that you have to resort to such ignorant and hateful remarks, Craig.

They’re not NEARLY as addled, ignorant and hateful as were the ones of *yours* that I just snipped due to their sheer idiocy. Anything I’ve been saying about you is in the form of **accurate descriptors** that you first EARNED for yourself. See, I’m all for INDIVIDUAL rights, but not SPECIAL RIGHTS for certain groups of people merely who choose abnormal behavior.

Ah. So you admit to being one of those loons that are ignorant enough to have fallen hook, line, and sinker for the RRR cult’s lying propaganda. On two counts. First off — the EQUAL rights that gays seek are EXACTLY that. The very SAME right to marry their partner of choice that straights already have. And the same right NOT to be harrassed and discriminated against with regard to housing and employment, just like the straights. That "special rights" swill being hatefully spewed by the lying RRR cult is just that: utter, lying TRIPE which most *intelligent* people would instantly recognize as being ludicrous. And secondly, since homosexuals, JUST like we who are straights, are BORN with their orientation, the behavior that they engage in as a result is NEITHER abnormal OR "chosen. Homo- sexuality, just like left-handedness, is simply a variation of NORMALCY. And since their "behavior," JUST like those of the heterosexuals, is done in *private*, that make it absolutely NONE of your business. Only a very STUPID person could possibly be such an mindless busybody! Gays have the same rights as others, but they don’t have (nor should they receive and special dispensation for) the right to redefine terms such as marriage merely because they don’t like the current definitions.

LOL!!! That’s the very SAME sort of **inane** TRIPE that the segregationists and Southern crackers spewed prior to 1967, when the Supreme Court so intelligently struck down all the remaining laws against interracial marriage. Doesn’t that make you feel really GOOD to know that you just as abjectly IGNORANT as those segregationists were? (BTW — have you noticed that American society was not harmed in the *slightest* by that ruling, 37 years ago? And that *neither* were any couples’ marriages? The SAME will be the case after same-sex marriage becomes universally legal.) You can’t argue that marriage laws discriminate against gays because sexual orientation simply isn’t referred to in the law.

You haven’t noticed that some states are CLAIMING otherwise? Or that ASSHOLE-in-Thief Bush has called for the RUINATION of the Constitution by injecting a hateful Bigotry Amendment into it? If not, you’ve been living in a very deep cave. <TRIPE-snip …in forums such as talkaboutparenting.com … No kidding? That’s news to me. I never even HEARD of that site until you mentioned it just now. Yeah, right, Craig – so what ELSE are you lying about?

Don’t ever become a researcher. You’re not worth a DAMN at it. Re: Some actual facts on abortion. Politics-free (I hope). http://www.talkaboutparenting.com/group/alt.teens.poetry.and.stuff/me… 124408.html

You didn’t happen to notice that part pf the URL that says, "alt.teens.poetry.and.stuff," huh? I never heard of the website to which you referred, but obviously they’ve incorporated into it one of the resource Posts that I regularly refresh in the teen newsgroups to help them bypass the repressive actions of the RRR cultists. That very post — until recently, last refreshed there on Nov. 30, 2003, just happens to be one that I refreshed again yesterday, and again is CURRENTLY on servers in the relevant newsgroups, including THIS one (alt.politics.homosexuality). Whatever remaining shreds of credibility you MAY have had in here certainly are in total ruins, now. You just don’t give a flying rat’s ass for HONESTY, do you? Looks like you’re the caught in a lie.

Wrong. All you managed was to do such shoddy "research," that you made a complete and public ass of yourself. In addition, I never stated that was you — I merely mentioned that there was/is a "Craig Chilton" with a high-profile presence in the gay online community and asked if it was you.

No, you didn’t. You openly IMPLIED it was me, and asked THIS question: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, Craig, is this you, and if you’re so *straight*, why do you spend so much time obsessed with gay issues, and why do you

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You’re blathering, assuming that everyone who doesn’t agree with your extreme views is a bigot. (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events. Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one.

The fact that you post in any (other than the cross-posted ones) still makes you suspect. Sure you don’t do a little cross-dressing or interior decorating on the side? :Oo Don’t be SHY, Craig… it’s between us girls, OK? ;O) And to date, I have never even *attended* a "Gay Pride" event, much less "competed" in one.

Well, I would hate to think of what type of competitive events they would have at a "Gay Pride" event anyway ("Yoo hoo, anyone want tickets for the salami-hiding contest?")… Standing up for individaul liberties is not "gay rights stuff." It is advocacy of EQUAL treatment in ALL ways for ALL Americans. You are QUITE the hateful little bigot, aren’t you?

Sorry to see that you’re so addled that you have to resort to such ignorant and hateful remarks, Craig. See, I’m all for INDIVIDUAL rights, but not SPECIAL RIGHTS for certain groups of people merely who choose abnormal behavior. Gays have the same rights as others, but they don’t have (nor should they receive and special dispensation for) the right to redefine terms such as marriage merely because they don’t like the current definitions. You can’t argue that marriage laws discriminate against gays because sexual orientation simply isn’t referred to in the law. However, emotional types like you can’t calm down long enough to see that, so you launch off into your histrionics as usual… …in forums such as talkaboutparenting.com … No kidding? That’s news to me. I never even HEARD of that site until you mentioned it just now.

Yeah, right, Craig – so what ELSE are you lying about? Re: Some actual facts on abortion. Politics-free (I hope). http://www.talkaboutparenting.com/group/alt.teens.poetry.and.stuff/me… 124408.html Whatever remaining shreds of credibility you MAY have had in here certainly are in total ruins, now. You just don’t give a flying rat’s ass for HONESTY, do you?

Looks like you’re the caught in a lie. In addition, I never stated that was you – I merely mentioned that there was/is a "Craig Chilton" with a high-profile presence in the gay online community and asked if it was you. Why would a straight guy hang around in a forum for parents to advocate equal opportinity for gays? You tell me! Since I’ve never done that, I wouldn’t know.

Seems there are quite a few things that you have "never done"… whatever. One must wonder WHY you are so very **DESPERATE** to put down a straight ALLY of the gay community (???). Is it wishful thinking on your part that they have NO such allies? If so — boy, are YOU ever in for a big surprise!

I’m not interested in putting down anyone per se. I’m merely pointing out how ridiculous the discrimination arguments are regarding the pro same-sex marriage crowd, and pointing out how silly you are with your histrionics. The *highest* percentage of gays that anyone claims, in the poulation, is 10%. So just for fun (and to YOUR advantage, in this case), let’s assume that figure is true. HOWEVER… recent polls have shown that the percentage of people in America who would be supportive of same-sex civil unions (but not "marriage,’ semantically-speaking… and really, that’s the ONLY difference) is now very close to 50%.

Sources? Cites? Even in sociallly liberal California, it appears that 2/3 of the votes are opposed to the concept of same-sex marriage. I doubt you are going to pick up any more support in the middle part of the country… BTW — You know what this **means**, don’t you? It means that whenever you are debating against a supporter of same-sex marriage, (or civil unions) the odds are a whopping 9-1 that your debate opponent who supports same-sex unions… is STRAIGHT!!

No, what it means is that your math and statistics skills are just as deficient as your ability to engage in a reasoned discussion…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in message That’s not what the eight oligarchical leaders of the RRR Cult call it, but that’s exactly what their annual crusade against individual liberties, held at D. James Kennedy’s Fort Lauderdale, FL hedquarters **IS**. Just as his hourly-long TV program is a hate-fest about 3/4 of the time, and would be far more accurately named, "The Bigotry Hour" than "The Coral Ridge Hour," the same is true of the conference that they call, "Reclaiming America for Christ." Every year, after **months** of hyping it in syndication over network TV, and over cable’s Trinity Broadcasting Network, Kennedy manages to con people into attending it from all over this nation of 290,000,000 people. Or 320 million, if one counts the Canadians. To listen to the very MOST bigoted speakers in North America delivering a pep rally to their lemmings that would rival any KKK rally. of millions of people, all Kennedy can eek out in terms of attendance… is only around a mere 1,200 or so. To the sensible egalitarians of America (which includes countless of millions of ACTUAL Christians (as opposed to being RRR cultists)… just keep right on fighting for fairness, equal rights, and individual liberties. We out- number the bigots EXPONENTIALLY, and if we *avoid* apathy, and keep active, we CAN make North America a Bigotry-Free Continent! And we can do it SOON! I noticed you had no specifics to discuss – merely foaming as usual, Craig. (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events You also spend quite a bit of time advocating your gay rights stuff in forums such as talkaboutparenting.com – why would a straight guy hang around in a forum for parents to advocate equal opportinity for gays? Methinks you’re not out in the open regarding a few of your "lifestyle choices"…) Why does a "straight guy" bother to go to homosexual groups to speak against homosexuality?

I don’t – I’m responding in alt.activism where I read this. You know, you wouldn’t have this problem if you stopped cross-posting your rants in the non-homosexual and non-kook newsgroups… :O|

Response:

"NO specifics?" So, then I *didn’t* provide such specifics as THESE, above? — – The RRR cult has an oligarchical leadership. – Its leadership consists of eight primary leaders. – One of those leaders organizes a pep rally for lemmings of the RRR to attend. – That particular leader is D. James Kennedy. – The badly named rally is called "Reclaiming America for Christ" — even though, in *reality*, it is an effort to reclaim America for BIGOTRY. – The rally is held annually. – Speakers for the rally are culled from the cream of bigotry’s crop. – The rally is held at D. James Kennedy’s HQ in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. – The rally is promoted for months beforehand. – The promotions are made on Kennedy’s own syndicated broadcasts, on network TV stations. – About 3/4 of the time, Kennedy spews bigotry on his TV show. – The promotions also are made over the Trinity Broadcasting Network. – Despite months of advance hyping the rally to millions of people, average attendance at the event is only a paltry 1,200 or so. That’s more than a DOZEN very specific points. So you either are a pathological liar, or you are a **profoundly** stupid person. Very likely both. (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events.

Really??? That’s certainly news to me, since the ONLY homosexual newsgroup that I participate in is the MAIN one. THIS one. The only one in this post’s crosspostings. The same one that **you** are posting in, hypocrite. And to date, I have never even *attended* a "Gay Pride" event, much less "competed" in one. I’d be glad to do so, as an ALLY of the Gay community, to lend my support, but so far I haven’t. My most recent participation in an actual major EVENT in behalf of human rights was when I took a carload of friends to San Francisco in 1992, where we marched in an ABORTION Rights parade. And on April 25th, I’ll be at the "March for Women’s Lives" in Washington, DC. (Egalitarians: You can still register: www.MarchforWomen.org ) You also spend quite a bit of time advocating your gay rights stuff…

Standing up for individaul liberties is not "gay rights stuff." It is advocacy of EQUAL treatment in ALL ways for ALL Americans. You are QUITE the hateful little bigot, aren’t you? …in forums such as talkaboutparenting.com …

No kidding? That’s news to me. I never even HEARD of that site until you mentioned it just now. Whatever remaining shreds of credibility you MAY have had in here certainly are in total ruins, now. You just don’t give a flying rat’s ass for HONESTY, do you? Why would a straight guy hang around in a forum for parents to advocate equal opportinity for gays?

You tell me! Since I’ve never done that, I wouldn’t know. (Thanks for the IDEA, though! I’ll look into that! I’m always up for finding NEW, valid ways to undermine the loathesome agendas of the bigots!) One must wonder WHY you are so very **DESPERATE** to put down a straight ALLY of the gay community (???). Is it wishful thinking on your part that they have NO such allies? If so — boy, are YOU ever in for a big surprise! Back on January 28, 2004, James Riske said: "Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in greater numbers than the gays." THIS was how I **did** just that… *more* "SPECIFICS" for you — + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + ROTFL!!!!! That’s one of the **easiest** things in the world to do! The *highest* percentage of gays that anyone claims, in the poulation, is 10%. So just for fun (and to YOUR advantage, in this case), let’s assume that figure is true. HOWEVER… recent polls have shown that the percentage of people in America who would be supportive of same-sex civil unions (but not "marriage,’ semantically-speaking… and really, that’s the ONLY difference) is now very close to 50%. Any straight person who would not object to same-sex civil unions are ALLIES of the gays. And if we used only 40% (and there are more allies than that, as I just said), then we’d have the following: Gays 10% – 29,000,000 Americans Straight Allies 30% – 87,000,000 Americans TOTAL Gays & Allies 40% – 116,000,000 Americans Ratio: 3-1. Three times more straight allies than gays. AT LEAST! Using more realistic numbers; that 5% of population is gay, and 45% of the population favors the granting of the right of gays to have same-sex civil unions, we have the following figures, which probably approximate today’s reality very closely: Gays 5% – 14,500,000 Americans Straight Allies 45% – 130,500,000 Americans TOTAL Gays & Allies 50% – 145,000,000 Americans Ratio: 9-1. NINE times more straight allies than gays. Using either set of figures, you LOSE, big-time. Three-to-one is the BEST you can do, but that’s unrealistically low. Straight ALLIES of the gays vastly **outnumber** the gays, themselves. http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage… Views of Same-Sex Marriage and Civil Unions: "Marriage" — Make legal: 41% Keep Illegal: 55% "Civil Unions" — Make legal: 46% Keep Illegal: 51% This reliable ABC News Poll PROVES your utter idiocy when you claim that gays are not outnumbered by their straight allies. BTW — You know what this **means**, don’t you? It means that whenever you are debating against a supporter of same-sex marriage, (or civil unions) the odds are a whopping 9-1 that your debate opponent who supports same-sex unions… is STRAIGHT!! Proof positive, and indisputable. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Response:

in message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s not what the eight oligarchical leaders of the RRR Cult call it, but that’s exactly what their annual crusade against individual liberties, held at D. James Kennedy’s Fort Lauderdale, FL hedquarters **IS**. Just as his hourly-long TV program is a hate-fest about 3/4 of the time, and would be far more accurately named, "The Bigotry Hour" than "The Coral Ridge Hour," the same is true of the conference that they call, "Reclaiming America for Christ." Every year, after **months** of hyping it in syndication over network TV, and over cable’s Trinity Broadcasting Network, Kennedy manages to con people into attending it from all over this nation of 290,000,000 people. Or 320 million, if one counts the Canadians. To listen to the very MOST bigoted speakers in North America delivering a pep rally to their lemmings that would rival any KKK rally. of millions of people, all Kennedy can eek out in terms of attendance… is only around a mere 1,200 or so. To the sensible egalitarians of America (which includes countless of millions of ACTUAL Christians (as opposed to being RRR cultists)… just keep right on fighting for fairness, equal rights, and individual liberties. We out- number the bigots EXPONENTIALLY, and if we *avoid* apathy, and keep active, we CAN make North America a Bigotry-Free Continent! And we can do it SOON! I noticed you had no specifics to discuss – merely foaming as usual, Craig. (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events You also spend quite a bit of time advocating your gay rights stuff in forums such as talkaboutparenting.com – why would a straight guy hang

around in a forum for parents to advocate equal opportinity for gays? Methinks you’re not out in the open regarding a few of your "lifestyle choices"…)

Why does a "straight guy" bother to go to homosexual groups to speak against homosexuality?

Response:

I noticed you had no specifics to discuss – merely foaming as usual, Craig. (You know, for a *straight guy*, you spend an awful lot of time crusing the homosexual NG’s and competing in various Gay Pride events You also spend quite a bit of time advocating your gay rights stuff in forums such as talkaboutparenting.com – why would a straight guy hang around in a forum for parents to advocate equal opportinity for gays? Methinks you’re not out in the open regarding a few of your "lifestyle choices"…)

Response:

That’s not what the eight oligarchical leaders of the RRR Cult call it, but that’s exactly what their annual crusade against individual liberties, held at D. James Kennedy’s Fort Lauderdale, FL hedquarters **IS**. Just as his hourly-long TV program is a hate-fest about 3/4 of the time, and would be far more accurately named, "The Bigotry Hour" than "The Coral Ridge Hour," the same is true of the conference that they call, "Reclaiming America for Christ." Every year, after **months** of hyping it in syndication over network TV, and over cable’s Trinity Broadcasting Network, Kennedy manages to con people into attending it from all over this nation of 290,000,000 people. Or 320 million, if one counts the Canadians. To listen to the very MOST bigoted speakers in North America delivering a pep rally to their lemmings that would rival any KKK rally. of millions of people, all Kennedy can eek out in terms of attendance… is only around a mere 1,200 or so. To the sensible egalitarians of America (which includes countless of millions of ACTUAL Christians (as opposed to being RRR cultists)… just keep right on fighting for fairness, equal rights, and individual liberties. We out- number the bigots EXPONENTIALLY, and if we *avoid* apathy, and keep active, we CAN make North America a Bigotry-Free Continent! And we can do it SOON!

Response:

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