Activism Change

** Grandma's House

Question:

I’m just riffing from my own beliefs. I’m trying to spend less time online—all evidence (like this tremendously long post!) to the contrary  ;)

Hi yer Sher,                    I was actually having a little curmudgeonly fun in my BAD MOOD. Whatever works for him is OK by me. I have to represent curmudgeons, it’s the job I was assigned.                 NMWFB

Response:

You are not a body, you are a beautiful spirit convinced that her nightmare is true. I say it is not. The pain and scars are seem real, that is the deception, to keep you angry at God. Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists.

This is exactly the obfuscation that gets me annoyed. Housekeep1? I am annoyed. This claptrap is annoying. For myself, I am in awe of the gift of my body that God gave to me. Every breath I take is a miracle that I know nothing of, but that I have been granted the privilege of enjoying this miracle as long as it remains alive. My spirit wants to know of this body while I am here. It IS my temple. My temple is real. My pain is a message. My body is a messenger. Who said pain and scars are an excuse to be mad at God? What is this crap?  A " deception?"  Puleeze.                  NMWFB

Response:

: I’m just riffing from my own beliefs. : I’m trying to spend less time online—all evidence (like this : tremendously long post!) to the contrary  ;) : Hi yer Sher, :                    I was actually having a little curmudgeonly fun in : my BAD MOOD. Whatever works for him is OK by me. : I have to represent curmudgeons, it’s the job I was assigned. :                 NMWFB Damn— I hate it when that happens. When I’ve been taking a conversation seriously, only to find out it wasn’t really mutual.   ick. And seriously (pun intended), you have every right to be joking and curmudgeonly.  I’m not pissed about that, not angry at you or anything. I’m just embarrassed. Call it a trigger, I suppose. I hate being the one who’s too thick to know when to be light and joking.  Too smart, too serious, too wrong for the world.  That’s me…… Sherri (don’t mind me, I’ll get over myself soon enough)

Response:

I find it especially galling that, directly after apologizing to me about "putting on airs," you end up speaking to silverleafs all about how you know better than she does…

: and god/dess has pointed me to the wiccan rede, ‘an it harm none, do as ye : will.’ and the sevenfold law, that whatever i put into my life will come : back sevenfold. i’m very glad you’ve found a teaching that works for you, : but *please* try to understand that other people follow other teachings : that are *equally* valid. : Same teaching. Same teacher. Krishna said: : "I am in every religion as the thread through a string of pearls. Wherever thou : seest extraordinary holiness and extraordinary power raising and purifying : humanity, know thou that I am there." : Lord Krishna Just for the record, when someone’s "respect for other spiritual paths" seems to bottom line at the position "I respect your path because really you’re just on the way to My Truth, only you don’t know it yet"—– well, suffice to say, that doesn’t ring to me as sincere respect for religious diversity.   Lip service to diversity that consists of proclaiming how everyone’s beliefs are all subsets of Housekeep’s beliefs….. That’s not diversity, that colonization.    :) The glory is in the details…..nuances matter to me. : derision? no. weary frustration, yes. why does your way have to be the : only one? : Never said that. You’re saying it all over the place.  :) : why does your heaven demand i be happy even if i’m not? : No demands, if you are not happy, you have the choice to remain so… or : change. To repeat myself….. Change is not instantaneous for everyone.  To my eyes—and I have been priveledged to have silverleafs’ e-presence before mine eyes for some years now—silverleafs is making healing choices and healing changes in her life.  Alas, this does *not* mean that all unhappiness has disappeared from her life.  Would that it were so. This simplistic dichotomy of "choice" simply doesn’t account for the power of one’s unconscious (subconscious? never can remember which term applies) mind.  And even when one *chooses* to heal, consciously *chooses* to work towards happiness, the subconscious wounds will continue to carry unhappiness until _there has been enough time for them to heal_. If silverleafs has unhappiness in her life—if I have unhappiness in my life—it is not simply because we are choosing to remain unhappy. Even if we are choosing healing it takes TIME. : no. the real world is a beautiful place where both beautiful and horrific : things can happen. the real world is filtering pale sunlight through : golden leaves in my backyard. it’s also the place where i was raped by : both my parents. don’t tell my what my world is. : You are not a body, you are a beautiful spirit convinced that her nightmare is : true. I say it is not. The pain and scars are seem real, that is the deception, : to keep you angry at God. Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal : exists. You see, here you go, collapsing all things into "Housekeep’s Truth" again.  This "you are not your body" thing is your cosmography. I can’t speak for silverleafs, but I know it sure isn’t mine. For starters, implying that the wounds caused by parent-rape are merely physical is just colossally ignorant.  Most people I’ve checked with attest that in their own lives, the experience wounds both body and spirit. Never mind the fact that I *don’t* discount the body or the material plane.  If the material weren’t important, I wouldn’t have a material manifestation.  In other words: since I am in bodily form, I consider that form to be important.  Not the be-all and end-all, since I am also intellect and spirit.  But I am body, too.  So even if the wounds of rape *were* only body-wounds, they would still deserve time and attention to heal. Let me reaffirm: I have no wish to alter your cosmography, no desire to tell you how you’re just really in my worldview only you won’t admit it.  Your beliefs bring you joy, and I’m glad for you.  I am perfectly capable of allowing you your joy even though your spirituality is not mine.  All of which means, of course, that I am once again affording you more respect than you’re affording me….   Sherri

Response:

I hate it when that happens. When I’ve been taking a conversation seriously, only to find out it wasn’t really mutual.   ick.

It IS mutual. We do not need to "match" emotional states. I am serious and humorous at the same time, it can be thus. Ask, averti. Please do not be embarrassed, please, please? And seriously (pun intended), you have every right to be joking and curmudgeonly.  I’m not pissed about that, not angry at you or anything. I’m just embarrassed. Call it a trigger, I suppose. I hate being the one who’s too thick to know when to be light and joking.  Too smart, too serious, too wrong for the world.  That’s me…… Sherri (don’t mind me, I’ll get over myself soon enough)

We need smart and serious, there is a lot of witless idiocy in this world. We need all of us. I personally like uptight people. I imagine them courtly and deep, and deep-down passionate. Are you uptight?  I am, around witless idiocy, particularly drunk ones. I use my uptightness as a humorous counterpoint. " Heeeeyyy, heey, HEY, whashoo doinck hic heeere, ishn’t thish great, or what, heeyy, yer lookihngh goot, I need a drink?" " Awaiting the end of your sentence with bated breath." " Naw, you dongh haff bad breadth." " Thanks."                 NMWFB

Response:

: derision? no. weary frustration, yes. why does your way have to be the : only one? : Never said that. no, you didn’t, and i apologize for saying you did. i have a certain amount of emotional baggage regarding religious intolerance, and i projected that on you. i’m sorry. : why does your heaven demand i be happy even if i’m not? : No demands, if you are not happy, you have the choice to remain so… or : change. this is too black and white for me. i can just choose to be happy? don’t you think i’d do it if i could? i can’t and WON’T pretend that i’m feeling something i don’t. yes, i take responsibility for what i feel, but i *also* take responsibility for being completely honest about those feelings. i’ve had enough people tell me how to feel and why to feel it that i really don’t listen to those lines anymore. : You are not a body, you are a beautiful spirit convinced that her nightmare is : true. I say it is not. The pain and scars are seem real, that is the deception, : to keep you angry at God. Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal : exists. these are *your* beliefs. they are not mine. and quite frankly, i am much more qualified to judge what i am, what my pain and scars are, and whether or not i’m angry at god. you don’t ask, you state. i’m not angry at the gods. i believe that they are part of my life and i am part of theirs. and your last statement is another belief that you state as fact. would it be so painful for you to talk about your beliefs as pertaining to YOU instead of *telling* me what i am? what incredible annoying arrogance. : i don’t want to enter heaven. i want to exist in my NOW. : The Universe has been created in EXACT accordance to your desire. When you are : tired of your NOW, check out Valhalla. i haven’t asked you to teach me. so shove it. if you want to discuss your beliefs, i’m willing to do that, which is why i wrote in the first place. i am not willing to be your loving disciple while you fill me in on what the universe really is. YOU DON’T KNOW. you BELIEVE. silverleaf — Nobody’s home, even if someone is.

Response:

Sherri thank you so, so much for this. you said so very well what i felt in response to this post, and with greater clarity than i could manage. and you said some things that i really needed to hear about me just now. lookit that, divinity expressed by mortality. *teary grin* *hugs* silverleafs — Nobody’s home, even if someone is.

Response:

what incredible annoying arrogance. i am not willing to be your loving disciple while you fill me in on what the universe really is. YOU DON’T KNOW.     you BELIEVE. silverleaf

Yay!  I was glad to see you stand up to that stifling yap.             NMWFB ( ! )

Response:

I am overwhelmed, lack the wisdom to offer counsel, and find myself unable to muster simple speech.

Well welcome to The Predicament. We are all overwhelmed, the more confident counsel gets rightly shot-down,  and wisdom is often in short supply. Not being able to speak in such circumstances, is evidence of most excellent wisdom. ( Too many continue to blather when clueless….) I am very proud of you for what you have done and excited for you that you have the strength and courage it took to do this.  While difficult and painful, this is healthy.  The demon’s roots wither significantly.

I will admit that I am in a deep battle with myself and my perceptions. The demon only withers when brought to the light of day. I fear I have a well-dressed dapper funny wealthy successful caring demon who hides magnificently a filthy furious deadly secret on my account. I must find the truth.           NMWFB

Response:

i believe divinity is real, but rather than giving me a flying rope ladder out of my life, i believe it leads me *into* my life, helps me learn the lessons of this life,

Flying rope ladders suck. You are right. The work is here. Now.              NMWFB

Response:

I am once again affording you more respect than you’re affording me….  

I apologize. I intend no lack in my respect toward you or any. I shall try to take my clues, with regard to respect, from the regulars who post here. Eternal Joy, Housekeep Stuart Smalley (and other great .wav files) http://members.aol.com/housekeep1/sounds/soundb.htm

Response:

Hi friend, Oh, it is simple when you have figured it all out like a third grader.                    NMWFB yes, I am in a bad mood, so what? so where’s Crisis and averti and silverleaf and Laurie S. and fakefur and Ally and Spike and Mick and Sherri and Seraphina and Panther and Angelita and karmagirl and jeeco and jaffa and rosee and Freida and matty (and I know where Alan is, compressed vertebrae,) and scamper and James, how is it going? and Kennet&  when I need you?

I am here. Just say the word. Hugs if you will receive them, from my heart ((((((((((NMWFB)))))))))) Scamper

Response:

cha cha boom, a canuck loon cha cha boom spike is in the room. My mail box is rusty, rust never sleeps. you can always email me, i won’t be a creep. Oh there are 2 very good programs mirc and irq, perhaps you should get them? They are easy to use and very small in size. Great for communication! Spike, at you service. p.s.  "go leafs go" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hiya nem. i’m here. i have court starting on monday, so i’m a wee bit… insular and disjointed. but if you need me, call. like you just did. what can i do for you? silverleaf — Nobody’s home, even if someone is.

Response:

it sounds like you had a very hard time, and i regret that we have that in common.

As do I. and god/dess has pointed me to the wiccan rede, ‘an it harm none, do as ye will.’ and the sevenfold law, that whatever i put into my life will come back sevenfold. i’m very glad you’ve found a teaching that works for you, but *please* try to understand that other people follow other teachings that are *equally* valid.

Same teaching. Same teacher. Krishna said: "I am in every religion as the thread through a string of pearls. Wherever thou seest extraordinary holiness and extraordinary power raising and purifying humanity, know thou that I am there." Lord Krishna so what you’re saying is that you’re not joyful? because certainly there will always be people that don’t share your joy, that don’t agree with your teachings, don’t find the personal worth in them that you do.

No, some day, when Time is over, all Life shall recall that It is holy and It is One. Then our Joy shall be complete. derision? no. weary frustration, yes. why does your way have to be the only one?

Never said that. why does your heaven demand i be happy even if i’m not?

No demands, if you are not happy, you have the choice to remain so… or change. no. the real world is a beautiful place where both beautiful and horrific things can happen. the real world is filtering pale sunlight through golden leaves in my backyard. it’s also the place where i was raped by both my parents. don’t tell my what my world is.

You are not a body, you are a beautiful spirit convinced that her nightmare is true. I say it is not. The pain and scars are seem real, that is the deception, to keep you angry at God. Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists. i don’t want to enter heaven. i want to exist in my NOW.

The Universe has been created in EXACT accordance to your desire. When you are tired of your NOW, check out Valhalla. annoying God-troll, moving in Muhahahaha Eternal Joy, Housekeep http://members.aol.com/amminadab1/library/deterior.htm

Response:

And, of course, to get really accurate, I should be called pagan rather than heathen, but somehow I think that Housekeep would collapse all alternate spiritualities under the rubric "heathen" anyhoo…..

Not so, all paths to God are good, please refer to: http://members.aol.com/amminadab/temple.htm What rings up my suspicion flag here is the implicit disavowal of trouble in his life.  As I have been discussing in other threads, shit does indeed happen, and it happens to those joyous people I know, and they make no effort to conceal that shit happens, they simply manage to get out of the shit quickly with grace and good humour.

Yes, this is called Life, and for me, Life is joyful. That even though he took this counter-intuitive risk: giving up the high powered career, etc., things still worked out okay?

The risk was phoney. I gave up nothing to gain everything. But my vision of things is that altruism needs to be balanced with self-care.

We are very close. Imagine that you… are the planet…manifesting as Sherri… to enjoy the Totality of what you are. Now when you clean up the beach or feed your sisters and brothers, you ARE caring for yourself. Jesus taught such. So, I dunno.  Maybe "God" (whichever God we’re talking about now; I’m not sure *wink*) didn’t say once-a-month altruism is okay. But I’m not sure he set a specific schedule.  Did he, and I missed it?  :)

God is One.  God did set up a schedule, whenever one encounters a need, she has a choice to either fill this need or believe that she is less than what she truly is, and follow the path of selfishness and littleness. Oh, same for men. If those are the boundaries on "God’s joy," then actually, no, I’m not sharing it, because I’m finding my spirituality and joy over in the New Age/Wiccan paradigm.  

All paths to God are good. And, alas, if Housekeep’s joy, or if Housekeep’s God’s joy, is dependent on *my* spiritual conversion, he’s out of luck.

The Joy of the Whole is incomplete without your Song. This is not platitude, it is Truth. I’m really torn here.  Yes, i think it’s troublesome, the way Housekeep presented this—it implies a type of exclusivity, with him as the chosen, and the rest of us as somehow lesser.

Bow to my Presence!! …I find that my instinctive rebuttal to Housekeep is an assertion that we all are special, rather than a move to assert how unspecial he is.

The Truth about you is so lofty, that nothing unworthy of the Goddess, is worthy of you. However appalling I found the elitism to be, I also envied that sense of confidence in "God’s love" or what-have-you, and I despaired ever having that sort of peace and confidence in my own self.

Elitism implies exclusivity.  What I have received, I gladly offer to each who would receive. And I still find the elitism here to be untenable.  But, I guess I’m actually one-upping on the superiority scale, because I do have a passing sense of connection to the divine, and I manage to feel that connection without having to claim exclusivity of connection.  

You are holy, you are holiness itself. Created in the very Image of God and given Life with Her very Breath. You are holy for who you are, there is nothing you can do to change who you are. I’m just smart enough to know that what’s easy for me might *not* be easy for someone else, so I try not to make sweeping pronouncements about something being "incredibly simple."  

I apologize. It is not my intent to "put on airs." What is easy now, was not easy at first. Explore with your mind, leave your body behind. annoying God-troll, moving in Muhahahaha Eternal Joy, Housekeep http://members.aol.com/amminadab1/library/deterior.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...]                   NMWFB yes, I am in a bad mood, so what? so where’s Crisis and averti and silverleaf and Laurie S. and fakefur and Ally and Spike and Mick and Sherri and Seraphina and Panther and Angelita and karmagirl and jeeco and jaffa and rosee and Freida and matty (and I know where Alan is, compressed vertebrae,) and scamper and James, how is it going? and Kennet&  when I need you? I’m here, all you gotta do is whistle ) (or email !) jaffa And a rock feels no pain. And an island never cries. Thank-you, jaffa. I botched my registry, errored  all these faults and exceptions and I DON"T NEED MY COMPUTER REJECTING ME! I lost my favorite desk top! I lost my little Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy wav. Life is SO COLD now.                  NMWFB

Aha ! Now I can play my CDs and use the computer at the same time I’ve freed myself of the tyranny of the personal desktop. I use the standard ‘blue sky’ wallpaper and no screensaver, but the CD starts up automatically…… I’d send you the .wav if I had it, but I don’t ( Having said that, last week I created an extra two days of work for myself by overwriting a file i’d been working on at home. I *hate* that……. jaffa And a rock feels no pain. And an island never cries.

Response:

: Where do I start? I was two-years old and in the hospital dying of spinal : meningitis when my dad left my mom. My older brother and sister and I, grew up : in the housing project while mom tried to provide our needs it sounds like you had a very hard time, and i regret that we have that in common. : My wife went to work at a preschool for low income families, I stayed home with : the kids, and baby sat my niece and two nephews. God pointed me to the "Sermon : on the Moun.t" and god/dess has pointed me to the wiccan rede, ‘an it harm none, do as ye will.’ and the sevenfold law, that whatever i put into my life will come back sevenfold. i’m very glad you’ve found a teaching that works for you, but *please* try to understand that other people follow other teachings that are *equally* valid. : God still won’t leave me alone. How can I be joyful when there is even one : brother that does not share this joy?  How can God’s Joy be complete, when all : creation does not share it? These are not "Asshole Housekeep’s" questions. : These are thoughts God brings to me every night, every night. so what you’re saying is that you’re not joyful? because certainly there will always be people that don’t share your joy, that don’t agree with your teachings, don’t find the personal worth in them that you do. : So I come here, to face your certain derision. My message is simple: derision? no. weary frustration, yes. why does your way have to be the only one? why does your heaven demand i be happy even if i’m not? : God is real and He Loves you, and He has given you a way out, but only when : you’re ready. i believe divinity is real, but rather than giving me a flying rope ladder out of my life, i believe it leads me *into* my life, helps me learn the lessons of this life, helps me suvive the unsurvivable, helps me believe in a pattern that is greater than i can see. but this is MY belief, and i don’t expect anyone else to share it, because i believe all people find their own path to divinity, that every path is valid, whether or not i want to walk it. i don’t want to walk yours, but that doesn’t mean i don’t have divinity in my life. : The real world is a beautiful place with never-ending Joy. no. the real world is a beautiful place where both beautiful and horrific things can happen. the real world is filtering pale sunlight through golden leaves in my backyard. it’s also the place where i was raped by both my parents. don’t tell my what my world is. : To enter heaven, you must be willing to leave hell. That is all, incredibly : simple. i don’t want to enter heaven. i want to exist in my NOW. silverleaf — Nobody’s home, even if someone is.

Response:

Snipped the fun part!                   NMWFB yes, I am in a bad mood, so what? so where’s Crisis and averti and silverleaf and Laurie S. and fakefur and Ally and Spike and Mick and Sherri and Seraphina and Panther and Angelita and karmagirl and jeeco and jaffa and rosee and Freida and matty (and I know where Alan is, compressed vertebrae,) and scamper and James, how is it going? and Kennet&  when I need you?

I am here. It is indeed nice to see you back!  You do have such clear vision and a healthily *direct* lucid way of communicating.  I enjoyed your reply. I have been a bit down lately.  I find the pain I hear in this group simply overwhelming and I feel the pain and it leaves me sick and mute.  I wanted to respond to you before you went but I could say nothing.  I feel very bad for this and hoped you knew I was with you for support. I am having a hard time mentally and emotionally with what I know and continue to learn of this demon which can so easily and reliably distort reality 180 degrees out of phase.  The good is seen as evil. The blameless blame themselves.  Those who need to trust most cannot. Those who need to enjoy life the most cannot.  Those who need love the most cannot.  Those who most need to be positive cannot.  Self-respect morphs to self-destruction.  I could go on but I can not begin to comprehend.  All things good in life seem inverse once this demon has planted it’s seed.  I am overwhelmed, lack the wisdom to offer counsel, and find myself unable to muster simple speech. I am very proud of you for what you have done and excited for you that you have the strength and courage it took to do this.  While difficult and painful, this is healthy.  The demon’s roots wither significantly. Yes! There.  I have done it.  Now to press Send. James

Response:

[...]                   NMWFB yes, I am in a bad mood, so what? so where’s Crisis and averti and silverleaf and Laurie S. and fakefur and Ally and Spike and Mick and Sherri and Seraphina and Panther and Angelita and karmagirl and jeeco and jaffa and rosee and Freida and matty (and I know where Alan is, compressed vertebrae,) and scamper and James, how is it going? and Kennet&  when I need you?

I’m here, all you gotta do is whistle ) (or email !) jaffa And a rock feels no pain. And an island never cries.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...]                   NMWFB yes, I am in a bad mood, so what? so where’s Crisis and averti and silverleaf and Laurie S. and fakefur and Ally and Spike and Mick and Sherri and Seraphina and Panther and Angelita and karmagirl and jeeco and jaffa and rosee and Freida and matty (and I know where Alan is, compressed vertebrae,) and scamper and James, how is it going? and Kennet&  when I need you? I’m here, all you gotta do is whistle ) (or email !) jaffa And a rock feels no pain. And an island never cries.

Thank-you, jaffa. I botched my registry, errored  all these faults and exceptions and I DON"T NEED MY COMPUTER REJECTING ME! I lost my favorite desk top! I lost my little Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy wav. Life is SO COLD now.                   NMWFB

Response:

hiya nem. i’m here. i have court starting on monday, so i’m a wee bit… insular and disjointed. but if you need me, call. like you just did. what can i do for you? silverleaf — Nobody’s home, even if someone is.

Response:

: I was amazed. How had this wonderful teaching remained hidden from mankind.  I : was on a mission.  I started using whatever extra money I could find to print : up this teaching and distrubute it to whoever wanted. It gave my life purpose. : And you can lead the unwashed to water, but you can’t make them bathe. Hey!  Who ‘ya calling unwashed?!   *GRIN*  I prefer the appelation "freshly showered heathen" to "unwashed heathen" any day.  And, of course, to get really accurate, I should be called pagan rather than heathen, but somehow I think that Housekeep would collapse all alternate spiritualities under the rubric "heathen" anyhoo….. : My life is peaceful, nearly perfect, almost holy. : And my biggest suspicion is your need to tell us about it. Most of the : truly joyful angels of God I have had the pleasure to know are utterly : transparent in their ministry. It’s not so much the telling me about it—I have known people with a great inner joy that *do* make a conscious effort at ministry, and that’s okay by me as long as they know when to lay off. What rings up my suspicion flag here is the implicit disavowal of trouble in his life.  As I have been discussing in other threads, shit does indeed happen, and it happens to those joyous people I know, and they make no effort to conceal that shit happens, they simply manage to get out of the shit quickly with grace and good humour. : I have everything a man could want except money. :                                                           ( and tact ) : I raise my kids and nephews, my wife works for the preschool, : while I keep the house. My family is happy, polite, respectful and : joyful. We have no fears, : Oh, well, thank-you for sharing. Your point? That even though he took this counter-intuitive risk: giving up the high powered career, etc., things still worked out okay? For whatever else is in this post, I’m not sure that’s such a bad parable.  Goddess knows, I get no end of parental shit because I’m getting a PhD in the humanities instead of doing something "really lucrative" like an MBA or computer sciences.  Because they don’t *get* that there’s more to a joyful life than the bank account, the summer houses and the country club. : God always comes through with the rent, I gave away our $2000 : security system, we don’t even lock our doors because there is : a halo around our house.   : Well isn’t that special? I don’t lock mine because I have given myself : to my fellow journeyers on this planet. If they really want my stuff, : they can have it. I *do* lock mine (and I have a security system, natch) because I’m in the middle of a city and I value my safety, my dog’s safety, and my stuff enough to protect it as best I can.  Not that locking my doors is any guarantee, and I know that.  But, hey, last I heard, "Gods help those who help themselves" was as common a theology as any other….. : We give whenever asked, we feed the homeless once a : month, and we always, ALWAYS, go out of our way if we can help somebody.   : This is utter tripe. The second you start grandstanding your : " altruism"  you are scum in the eyes of the Lord. : God did not say," once a month "  is okey dokey. I’m not going to take the opportunity to catalog what little charity/ activism I do—it’s not as much as it should be, I often feel. But my vision of things is that altruism needs to be balanced with self-care. Just a couple days ago, I was talking to a female friend (another survivor) about a mutual guy friend of ours.  The survivor was comparing herself to him, saying "Unlike lazy me, he’s continued his political activism during grad school."  Whereupon I reminded her that *he* didn’t have the added burden of recovery work to do. So, I dunno.  Maybe "God" (whichever God we’re talking about now; I’m not sure *wink*) didn’t say once-a-month altruism is okay. But I’m not sure he set a specific schedule.  Did he, and I missed it?  :) You do what you can. : Of course we can’t find a church that will accept us, but that’s another story. : No, it is NOT another story, it is part and parcel of your : pollyanna predicament. Your post has given you away. Yeah, it’s part of the story. :  How can God’s Joy be complete, when all : creation does not share it? : Because we DO all share it. Joy and Despair are part of the same : Universe, both are equally important. And we ARE all sharing it, so : relax you hypocritical snake, you can be joyful just because you want : to be joyful. Yuck! What a  sentence, " How can I be joyful when there : is even one brother that does not share this joy?" Well, it depends on how narrow your definition of "God" is.  As far as I can tell, Housekeep’s working from some sort of Christian/ Course in Miracles perspective.  If those are the boundaries on "God’s joy," then actually, no, I’m not sharing it, because I’m finding my spirituality and joy over in the New Age/Wiccan paradigm.   And, alas, if Housekeep’s joy, or if Housekeep’s God’s joy, is dependent on *my* spiritual conversion, he’s out of luck. : " God still won’t leave me alone." ( "hahaha i’m so Special!!" ) : What a bunch of puke. I’m really torn here.  Yes, i think it’s troublesome, the way Housekeep presented this—it implies a type of exclusivity, with him as the chosen, and the rest of us as somehow lesser. On the other hand, and maybe it’s just because I’m feeling a small portion of inner peace this afternoon, I find that my instinctive rebuttal to Housekeep is an assertion that we all are special, rather than a move to assert how unspecial he is. I’m just speaking for myself here—I’m not exactly the arbiter of proper behavior.  This comes solely out of my own history. I used to get a lot more angry and upset about these sorts of "I am of the Elite" statements, and looking back, I see that part of what drove my anger was envy mixed with despair.  However appalling I found the elitism to be, I also envied that sense of confidence in "God’s love" or what-have-you, and I despaired ever having that sort of peace and confidence in my own self. And I still find the elitism here to be untenable.  But, I guess I’m actually one-upping on the superiority scale, because I do have a passing sense of connection to the divine, and I manage to feel that connection without having to claim exclusivity of connection.   : These are not "Asshole Housekeep’s" questions. : These are thoughts God brings to me every night, every night. : So I come here, to face your certain derision. : The only certainty of "derision" is in your own mind. I could be : weeping the tears of Christ Himself, right now, for you, and you would : not know the difference. The True Spirits, my friend, are far less : interested in proselytizing the " message" than SHARING IT by means of : listening, touch, time, and love.  quietly Hopefully I haven’t preached too much here for your tastes. Believe it when I say that conversion and proselytizing aren’t my goals; I’m just riffing from my own beliefs. : My message is simple: : God is real and He Loves you, and He has given you a way out, but only when : you’re ready. : And maybe He/She  has given me a way IN, too. For fuck’s sakes, just : because you have a little warm fart of an idea about how this all : works, please don’t get too excited about ramming it down our throats. : We have had enough of that already, I assure you. Never mind the narrowness of A Way Out, singular.   I don’t believe that at all.  :)   We are all so unique, that I imagine many ways, all worthwhile.   I suppose that somewhere at the base of it all, those different paths *might* have the same foundation (I’m not even sure about that, really, but it’s possible), but getting to that commonality would look very much like Schenkerian analysis, where Mvmt. 1 of the "Eroica" ends up being boiled down to a mi-re-do descent….  *shudder* I prefer a little more nuance, detail, and diversity in my world, thank ye kindly.   : The real world is a beautiful place with never-ending Joy. :   This sounds like exhausting Hell. It depends on how you conceptualize Joy.  I’ve been doing some reading the last couple months (New Age stuff), and a few of these authors are using a conceptualization of joy that makes sense to me.  It has to do with a difference between joy and happiness.  In this sense, joy incorporates the knowledge that bad things happen: bad hair days, menstrual cramps, IRS audits, my family history, etc.   But joy also incorporates a sense of faith/confidence/what-have-you: a knowledge that, when these bad things happen, you have the inner resources to persevere and triumph. Not to say I’m there yet—far from it.  But that sort of joy, well, I could see myself working towards that….. : To enter heaven, you must be willing to leave hell. That is all, incredibly : simple. : Oh, it is simple when you have figured it all out like a third grader. Well, certain things *are* that simple for some people.  It all comes back to individuality.  Maybe all Housekeep needs to make the trip from hell to heaven is one conscious moment of choice.  Bully for him. We all have things like that.  For me, needlework comes that naturally. What else?  Um, when you were asking about pre-verbal memories, how to find them, I was unable to answer you because it was easy for me—I just let myself cry a bunch and there they were: old feelings, taste memories. I’m just smart enough to know that what’s easy for me might *not* be easy for someone else, so I try not to make sweeping pronouncements about something being "incredibly simple."   :                    NMWFB : yes, I am in a bad mood, so what? so where’s Crisis and averti and : silverleaf and Laurie S. and fakefur and Ally and Spike and Mick and : Sherri and Seraphina and Panther and Angelita and … read more »

Response:

I was amazed. How had this wonderful teaching remained hidden from mankind.  I was on a mission.  I started using whatever extra money I could find to print up this teaching and distrubute it to whoever wanted. It gave my life purpose.

And you can lead the unwashed to water, but you can’t make them bathe. My life is peaceful, nearly perfect, almost holy.

And my biggest suspicion is your need to tell us about it. Most of the truly joyful angels of God I have had the pleasure to know are utterly transparent in their ministry. I have everything a man could want except money.

                                                          ( and tact ) I raise my kids and nephews, my wife works for the preschool, while I keep the house. My family is happy, polite, respectful and joyful. We have no fears,

Oh, well, thank-you for sharing. Your point? God always comes through with the rent, I gave away our $2000 security system, we don’t even lock our doors because there is a halo around our house.  

Well isn’t that special? I don’t lock mine because I have given myself to my fellow journeyers on this planet. If they really want my stuff, they can have it. We give whenever asked, we feed the homeless once a month, and we always, ALWAYS, go out of our way if we can help somebody.  

This is utter tripe. The second you start grandstanding your " altruism"  you are scum in the eyes of the Lord. God did not say," once a month "  is okey dokey. Of course we can’t find a church that will accept us, but that’s another story.

No, it is NOT another story, it is part and parcel of your pollyanna predicament. Your post has given you away. God still won’t leave me alone. How can I be joyful when there is even one brother that does not share this joy?  How can God’s Joy be complete, when all creation does not share it?

Because we DO all share it. Joy and Despair are part of the same Universe, both are equally important. And we ARE all sharing it, so relax you hypocritical snake, you can be joyful just because you want to be joyful. Yuck! What a  sentence, " How can I be joyful when there is even one brother that does not share this joy?" " God still won’t leave me alone." ( "hahaha i’m so Special!!" )

What a bunch of puke. These are not "Asshole Housekeep’s" questions. These are thoughts God brings to me every night, every night. So I come here, to face your certain derision.

The only certainty of "derision" is in your own mind. I could be weeping the tears of Christ Himself, right now, for you, and you would not know the difference. The True Spirits, my friend, are far less interested in proselytizing the " message" than SHARING IT by means of listening, touch, time, and love.  quietly My message is simple: God is real and He Loves you, and He has given you a way out, but only when you’re ready.

And maybe He/She  has given me a way IN, too. For fuck’s sakes, just because you have a little warm fart of an idea about how this all works, please don’t get too excited about ramming it down our throats. We have had enough of that already, I assure you. The real world is a beautiful place with never-ending Joy.

  This sounds like exhausting Hell. To enter heaven, you must be willing to leave hell. That is all, incredibly simple.

Oh, it is simple when you have figured it all out like a third grader.                    NMWFB yes, I am in a bad mood, so what? so where’s Crisis and averti and silverleaf and Laurie S. and fakefur and Ally and Spike and Mick and Sherri and Seraphina and Panther and Angelita and karmagirl and jeeco and jaffa and rosee and Freida and matty (and I know where Alan is, compressed vertebrae,) and scamper and James, how is it going? and Kennet&  when I need you?

Response:

Your life was so fuckin’ beutiful, man!  My life sucks big

Grandma’s house was two weeks of my life. I didn’t have it near as bad as you did, but, I was a kid and it was plenty bad: [WARNING - Following this warning is some blatant website advertising, talk about God, advocacy of insanity, and probably a whole lot more about me than any of you really want to know. Remember, it is your decision to read further] Where do I start? I was two-years old and in the hospital dying of spinal meningitis when my dad left my mom. My older brother and sister and I, grew up in the housing project while mom tried to provide our needs (there weren’t too many social services for single moms in the early 60’s)  Today, one of my most vivid memories is watching my mom search for edible vegetables in the dumpster behind Safeway.  When I was 7, mom married an abusive man who tried to rape my sister and gave me a serious addiction to pornography.  My brother left for the army, my sister ran away, and I stayed with mom, we did the best we could. I was always an excellent student and possessed a quick wit and talent to entertain. I believed in the American dream and set out to improve my life situation. <snip Have you ever seen "The Last Temptation of Christ"?  In the beginning of this movie, Jesus is tormented by God trying to get his attention.  Again and again, God pushes Him, and Jesus just yells, "Leave me alone!"  This is my experience. 3 years ago I find myself married with two children and a successful career as the Branch Manager of a Home Security System sales organization, making $60,000 base plus overides, bonus and commissions, and working 90 hours a week. God intervenes(again) and gets my attention. We had money, but my family was still without a father.  I made money by appealing to the greed of my company and sales department. Our sales were made by scaring families enough that they bought our system.  God opened my eyes to this grave error.  So I quit my job, just walked away. My wife went to work at a preschool for low income families, I stayed home with the kids, and baby sat my niece and two nephews. God pointed me to the "Sermon on the Moun.t" http://members.aol.com/amminadab1/temple/christn/sermon.htm  I was amazed. How had this wonderful teaching remained hidden from mankind.  I was on a mission.  I started using whatever extra money I could find to print up this teaching and distrubute it to whoever wanted. It gave my life purpose. When my church  asked me to give the message one Lent, I was going to read "Sermon on the Mount" for how could I improve on it — I was told it was too much scripture for church. So I told "My Story." http://members.aol.com/fridgeart1/thoughts/mystory.htm We were all but excommunicated. About this time, I was led to "A Course In Miracles" at the library. http://members.aol.com/amminadab1/temple/newage/acim1.htm I understood immediately. It made perfect sense. I completed the workbook my first attempt without ever missing a day. The Course explained the Holy Instants that I had experienced many times in many ways. <snip My life is peaceful, nearly perfect, almost holy. I have everything a man could want except money. I raise my kids and nephews, my wife works for the preschool, while I keep the house. My family is happy, polite, respectful and joyful. We have no fears, God always comes through with the rent, I gave away our $2000 dollar security system, we don’t even lock our doors because there is a halo around our house.  We give whenever asked, we feed the homeless once a month, and we always, ALWAYS, go out of our way if we can help somebody.  Of course we can’t find a church that will accept us, but that’s another story. God still won’t leave me alone. How can I be joyful when there is even one brother that does not share this joy?  How can God’s Joy be complete, when all creation does not share it? These are not "Asshole Housekeep’s" questions. These are thoughts God brings to me every night, every night. So I come here, to face your certain derision. My message is simple: God is real and He Loves you, and He has given you a way out, but only when you’re ready. Remember when Riker couldn’t determine whether he was in the play or the institution? The real world is a beautiful place with never-ending Joy. To enter heaven, you must be willing to leave hell. That is all, incredibly simple. seeds planted, moving on Peace forever, Housekeep http://members.aol.com/amminadab1/library/godmemo.htm

Response:

Grandma’s House I was thinking today about Grandma

Filed under: Activism Definition

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