Any foster parents here???

Question:

Shari wrote: > And I agree with this, too. This group is intensely one-sided. So much so, > that even people who WANT to hear about the bad guys (such as myself) are > so disgusted with the acrimoniousness and hostility towards anyone with a > mind of their own or a different background, that they wind up dismissing > otherwise perfectly valid arguments. (Boy, talk about a run-on sentence!)

Sorry to disillusion you, Shari, but there are ZERO perfectly valid arguments which support and play apologist for Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry in any way, shape or form or to any significant degree. PERIOD. None, zero, nada, null, nil, squat, zilch, zippo, bupkus, the big goose egg. You might as well try and find the good inherent in the Holocaust committed by the Nazis. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > Neal Feldman wrote: > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > > > > > NashCats wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > > > > > > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > > > > > > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > > > > > > > > MM > > > > > > > > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > > > > > > > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > > > > > > > > grind with state child protection agencies. > > > > > > > > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > > > > > > > > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > > > > > > > > are called on the facts. > > > > > > > Then again, maybe that’s not it. > > > > > > You have an alternate scenario which fits the facts as well, Henry? > > > > > I already alluded it, but I’ll elaborate. I have no doubt that one of > > > > > the most emotionally wrenching and infuriating experiences parents or > > > > > children can have is to be forcibly separated from each other. Even in > > > > > cases of horrible abuse it is not unusual for children and their parents > > > > > to love each other and desire to stay together. This, in turn, has > > > > > resulted in a number of folks with intense hatred of the system that > > > > > instigated the separation. Thus, it’s no surprise that some of these > > > > > folks seek out the enemy or ignorant (from their perspective) wherever > > > > > they think they can find them, including usenet groups. It’s a great > > > > > place to vent. They can be anonymous if they wish, they can be as > > > > > aggressive as they wish with minimal fear of any meaningful reprisal, > > > > > they can meet with others that may sympathize or empathize with them , > > > > > and they might even be successful in persuading some folks to change > > > > > their perception. All good and acceptable stuff. > > > > Again you assume that those parents posting here had legitimate accusations against them when > > > > in fact the evidence shows quite the opposite. > > > Actually, I think if you review my post you’ll note that I didn’t make > > > any assumptions regarding the legitimacy of accusations against parents. > > Actually the implication is quite definite, since you only mention people who were NOT wrongly > > accused and who would deny… the implication is that anyone who denies is guilty because some > > guilty people have denied. Nowhere in your text above do you acknowledge innocent parents having > > their kids kidnapped… only that some guilty people may look at it that way. > There was no implication, only your inference.

Sorry but there is a strong implication, not inference. > I noted the possibility > of valid abuse because one might assume that children who actually were > abused might not complain about being removed from their homes. But that > is not always the case. One might also assume that someone who would > abuse their children might not care about removal. But that is not > always the case. I am aware that travesties have been committed by > governmental agencies and their agents.

Are you one of those like MoRon Mitty who admits that such occur but claims that such are one in a million things instead of the 85-95+% that the facts have clearly shown them to be? > I also believe that most victims > of this governmental abuse would be outraged and vocal about it.

Do you accept the facts that 85-95+% of those attacked by Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry are in fact innocent as the facts and evidence have clearly shown? Do you accept that 85-95+% of those who are very vocal against Gestapo CPS et al are in fact innocents who were wrongly abused by such governmental wrongdoing? > I also > am aware that there are folks that are abused that are afraid to be vocal > or lack the resources to do so in an effective manner.

True enough… too often due to being bankrupted by their dealings with Gestapo CPS. > > Also you mentioned that some abused children still want to stay with their abusive parents which > > again implies that all children who want to stay with their parents because some children who are > > abused wish to stay with their abusive parents. > I’m sorry, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying I implied.

Sorry I may have phrased it poorly… the basics are that your implication seemed to be that because some abused kids want to stay with their parents that all children who want to stay with their parents are abused by those parents, and that their wanting to stay with their parents is ‘evidence’ of the parents’ being guilty of child abuse. This is an arguement which has been used MANY times by Gestapo CPS, their advocates and their apologists. > It looks like you’re saying that, by simply noting that some abused > children wish to remain with their parents, I somehow implied that all > abused children want to stay with their parents.

Close… not quite.. the implication is that all children who want to stay with their parents are abused, because some abused children want to remain with their parents. > But that would be nonsensical.

It is still claimed by Gestapo CPS agents in the kangaroo anti-family courts. > > Again nowhere in your text do you even consider the > > concept of an innocent child kidnapped from innocent parents by Gestapo CPS abuses, even though this > > IS the case in 85-95+% of removals which in such cases are nothing less than kidnappings. Again the > > implication is extremely clear. > I don’t believe your 85/95 statistic, but I know this occurs.

Why not? Why do you disbelieve what has already been clearly and conclusively proven? Simply because you do not want to believe it? What evidence do you have that proves the statistic inaccurate that is as substantiated in fact and logic as that which supports the statistic, Henry? > I’m not responsible for your inferences.

I made no inferences… merely pointed out your implications. > > Then you go after anyone who posts against Gestapo CPS in newsgroups, never mentioning that they > > might do so because they have been innocent and yet harmed by Gestapo CPS abuses or maybe they have > > not been abused (yet) but find the routine violations of the civil, human, constitutional, due > > process and parental rights of innocent citizens completely heinous, evil and offensive. The strong > > implication > …cut me a break here, Neal…

Why? > > in your words is that anyone here or in other newsgroups who posts opposition to Gestapo > > CPS and their abuses is some kind of kook who is a child abuser and wishes to lash out at who they > > perceive as their victimizer anonymously and finding similar folk to themselves. > > Again there is no > > mention of folks like me and the vast majority of those here who post against the offenses and > > abuses of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry. > > Your words were not as innocent as you seem to wish they were. And I took them as they came across > > in the context of the discussion. > You took them in the context in which you wished to interpret them.

I took them in the context of this discussion in this newsgroup on this topic. I did not take them out of context in any way. > > > In my opinion, the legitimacy of the removal doesn’t necessarily have > > > much bearing on whether the parents or children involved are upset. > > Actually in most cases it does, and innocents who have their children kidnapped on average tend to > > be far more upset (once the shock wears off at how heinous our own government can be to its own > > innocent citizens) than guilty people. Not always… there are true jerks in the world like the > > clowns who will ‘get you’ for having the audacity to turn them in if they rob you. But they are the > > clear minority. > I would go along with this.

Thank you. > I think it more likely that the more > aggressive and vocal folks have probably been abused and harrassed. I > also agree that the number of "true jerks" are in the minority.

Thank you again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > I know there are governmental abuses. I also have personal experience with > > > folks that were guilty as hell but were still upset that the children > > > were removed. > > Most parents will be upset if their children are removed… however those are not the ones who have > > been posting here. Not even close, Henry, if you bothered to look into the details of each case > > presented. Almost to a person the children were kidnapped for no legitimate, credible, reasonable, > > rational, logical or legal reason… simply because a fascist powertripping jackbooted (in attitude > > if not actual attire) goosestepper who wished to augment their department’s funding streams wanted > > to and was willing to perjure themselves (with complete immunity from prosecution civilly or > > criminally for their crime) to a sympathetic judge who is one of a group who are Gestapo CPS’ "VERY > > VERY ACTIVE PARTNERS". > > > Since I really don’t know what the reality of the > > > situation is for most of the folks here, I try to respond without making > > > any judgements regarding their personal information. However, I’m human, > > > and thus I find my credulity

Response:

In article <90DFCFA57shari2kgo…@24.2.10.79>, Shari says… >Henry W. Moritz said <MPG.15bbb821b4016f6d989…@news.demone1.ia.home.com>: ><snipped for bandwidth> >>I guess I disagree. I’ve seen instances where foster parents posted >>fairly innocuous stuff and got the "truth" explained to them. In fact, >>I don’t think I would be going to far out on a limb to submit that there >>are some folks that post here that are simply opposed to foster parents >>and thus find *anything* they say (as well as their existance) as >>offensive. >I don’t think you would be going too far to say that either. Look at how >they jumped all over that innocuous little "chewed cardboard" thing. I >mean, come on, is that digging or what? And all because I am in training to >be a foster parent.

Not really, You have admitted to millions of people that you interpert cardboard chewings from rabbits to seem like communication, kind of like the son of sam thing. Wierd. Good-bye. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -><snipped for bandwidth> >>No, I’m sorry. This is a blanket statement and I don’t think anything >>involving human values and institions are so easily or neatly reduced to >>simple mathematical logic. >I strongly agree. I haven’t even bothered to respond to the numbers game >here because of that simple truth. Each case is unique, each case has its >own facts and therefore, no-one can reasonably argue percentages and ratios >regarding removal cases. >>> We are not speaking of opinions or points of view, but instead of >>> clearly and objectively determined right and wrong. PERIOD. >>Wrong again. >Exactly. Clearly and objectively defined right and wrong? Sounds like >something CPS would say. ><rest snipped for bandwidth> >Henry, are you a foster parent? Your patience and ability to keep >everything straight is a wonderful gift! I enjoy reading your posts. >Shari >– >To reply by e-mail, please remove AZAAM from my address.

"..and that you may never experience the humility that the power of the American Government has reduced me to, is the wish of him, who, in his native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself." Black Hawk, 1833

Response:

In article <90DFC4773shari2kgo…@24.2.10.79>, She, who talks with bunnies: >Henry W. Moritz said

<snip> http://members.aol.com/fpallegations/index.html "..and that you may never experience the humility that the power of the American Government has reduced me to, is the wish of him, who, in his native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself." Black Hawk, 1833

Response:

In article <90DFCFA57shari2kgo…@24.2.10.79>, She, who talks with bunnies: >Henry W. Moritz said <MPG.15bbb821b4016f6d989…@news.demone1.ia.home.com>:

Response:

free_kaler chewed some cardboard to form these letters <DVt47.20637$Kf3.258…@www.newsranger.com>: >Not really, You have admitted to millions of people that you interpert >cardboard chewings from rabbits to seem like communication, kind of like >the son of sam thing. Wierd. Good-bye.

*LOL* Good-bye! — To reply by e-mail, please remove AZAAM from my address.

Response:

Henry W. Moritz said <MPG.15bbb821b4016f6d989…@news.demone1.ia.home.com>: <snipped for bandwidth> >I guess I disagree. I’ve seen instances where foster parents posted >fairly innocuous stuff and got the "truth" explained to them. In fact, >I don’t think I would be going to far out on a limb to submit that there >are some folks that post here that are simply opposed to foster parents >and thus find *anything* they say (as well as their existance) as >offensive.

I don’t think you would be going too far to say that either. Look at how they jumped all over that innocuous little "chewed cardboard" thing. I mean, come on, is that digging or what? And all because I am in training to be a foster parent. <snipped for bandwidth> >No, I’m sorry. This is a blanket statement and I don’t think anything >involving human values and institions are so easily or neatly reduced to >simple mathematical logic.

I strongly agree. I haven’t even bothered to respond to the numbers game here because of that simple truth. Each case is unique, each case has its own facts and therefore, no-one can reasonably argue percentages and ratios regarding removal cases. >> We are not speaking of opinions or points of view, but instead of >> clearly and objectively determined right and wrong. PERIOD. >Wrong again.

Exactly. Clearly and objectively defined right and wrong? Sounds like something CPS would say. <rest snipped for bandwidth> Henry, are you a foster parent? Your patience and ability to keep everything straight is a wonderful gift! I enjoy reading your posts. Shari — To reply by e-mail, please remove AZAAM from my address.

Response:

Henry W. Moritz said <MPG.15bb8b3c4b3a5a6e989…@news.demone1.ia.home.com>: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I already alluded it, but I’ll elaborate. I have no doubt that one of >the most emotionally wrenching and infuriating experiences parents or >children can have is to be forcibly separated from each other. Even in >cases of horrible abuse it is not unusual for children and their parents >to love each other and desire to stay together. This, in turn, has >resulted in a number of folks with intense hatred of the system that >instigated the separation. Thus, it’s no surprise that some of these >folks seek out the enemy or ignorant (from their perspective) wherever >they think they can find them, including usenet groups. It’s a great >place to vent. They can be anonymous if they wish, they can be as >aggressive as they wish with minimal fear of any meaningful reprisal, >they can meet with others that may sympathize or empathize with them , >and they might even be successful in persuading some folks to change >their perception. All good and acceptable stuff. >However, I don’t think most foster parents have nearly as much emotional >baggage.

I agree with you, Henry. Most foster parents have to learn to let go of a lot of negative emotions, or they simply would not be able to continue to do the good work they do. Most foster parents I know are in counselling to get through their grief and anger regarding the system, and therefore heal and are able to move forward instead of nursing grudges and hanging on to the past. > When they do need support, despite the name of the >newsgroup, this newsgroup clearly isn’t the place to get it. One or two >posts will get enough aggressive reponses to discourage them from any >notions of getting support. If they aren’t getting support, why stick >around and subject themselves to abuse? A few foster parents may stick >around to see what’s posted(such as myself), but then I suspect they >aren’t looking for support here.

Hear, hear! I came here looking for support and was amazed to see it had been taken hostage and over-run by such hatred. This group should change its name. I am no longer looking for support here (thanks to Wex’s posts with all kinds of other groups to go to), but I am sticking around out of sheer morbid curiosity. If nothing else, it’s a great place to get a laugh. > I don’t. My guess is that those >foster parents who are interested in child activisim are posting more >actively in other groups.

Your guess is correct. In "real" life, I am very against CPS. Boy, I bet that’s a shock! But I am. The reason why I came to this group and assumed a PRO-CPS attitude, was to see what the arguments against CPS are, see who is angry and who is not, see if there are any new grievances against CPS. I couldn’t come in here saying Destroy CPS, or else I would have gotten a bunch of self-congratulory back patting and "aren’t we so politically actve" messages. I don’t agree with CPS, but I don’t like that self- righteous crap either. And no matter what, I believe foster parents provide a crucial service. >Regardless, my point is that this group is indeed one-sided and I really >don’t believe it has to do with the "light of truth" as much as it does >with a desire of folks seeking support to avoid a lot of opinions which >don’t really pertain to their particular problems.

And I agree with this, too. This group is intensely one-sided. So much so, that even people who WANT to hear about the bad guys (such as myself) are so disgusted with the acrimoniousness and hostility towards anyone with a mind of their own or a different background, that they wind up dismissing otherwise perfectly valid arguments. (Boy, talk about a run-on sentence!) >They are certainly entitled to their points of view.

Ah, how refreshing to hear THAT! Thank you! <snip> Thanks for posting, Henry, it was nice to read a calm and sane post. Shari — To reply by e-mail, please remove AZAAM from my address.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - Neal Feldman wrote: > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > > > > NashCats wrote: > > > > > > > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > > > > > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > > > > > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > > > > > > > MM > > > > > > > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > > > > > > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > > > > > > > grind with state child protection agencies. > > > > > > > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > > > > > > > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > > > > > > > are called on the facts. > > > > > > Then again, maybe that’s not it. > > > > > You have an alternate scenario which fits the facts as well, Henry? > > > > I already alluded it, but I’ll elaborate. I have no doubt that one of > > > > the most emotionally wrenching and infuriating experiences parents or > > > > children can have is to be forcibly separated from each other. Even in > > > > cases of horrible abuse it is not unusual for children and their parents > > > > to love each other and desire to stay together. This, in turn, has > > > > resulted in a number of folks with intense hatred of the system that > > > > instigated the separation. Thus, it’s no surprise that some of these > > > > folks seek out the enemy or ignorant (from their perspective) wherever > > > > they think they can find them, including usenet groups. It’s a great > > > > place to vent. They can be anonymous if they wish, they can be as > > > > aggressive as they wish with minimal fear of any meaningful reprisal, > > > > they can meet with others that may sympathize or empathize with them , > > > > and they might even be successful in persuading some folks to change > > > > their perception. All good and acceptable stuff. > > > Again you assume that those parents posting here had legitimate accusations against them when > > > in fact the evidence shows quite the opposite. > > Actually, I think if you review my post you’ll note that I didn’t make > > any assumptions regarding the legitimacy of accusations against parents. > Actually the implication is quite definite, since you only mention people who were NOT wrongly > accused and who would deny… the implication is that anyone who denies is guilty because some > guilty people have denied. Nowhere in your text above do you acknowledge innocent parents having > their kids kidnapped… only that some guilty people may look at it that way.

There was no implication, only your inference. I noted the possibility of valid abuse because one might assume that children who actually were abused might not complain about being removed from their homes. But that is not always the case. One might also assume that someone who would abuse their children might not care about removal. But that is not always the case. I am aware that travesties have been committed by governmental agencies and their agents. I also believe that most victims of this governmental abuse would be outraged and vocal about it. I also am aware that there are folks that are abused that are afraid to be vocal or lack the resources to do so in an effective manner. > Also you mentioned that some abused children still want to stay with their abusive parents which > again implies that all children who want to stay with their parents because some children who are > abused wish to stay with their abusive parents.

I’m sorry, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying I implied. It looks like you’re saying that, by simply noting that some abused children wish to remain with their parents, I somehow implied that all abused children want to stay with their parents. But that would be nonsensical. > Again nowhere in your text do you even consider the > concept of an innocent child kidnapped from innocent parents by Gestapo CPS abuses, even though this > IS the case in 85-95+% of removals which in such cases are nothing less than kidnappings. Again the > implication is extremely clear.

I don’t believe your 85/95 statistic, but I know this occurs. I’m not responsible for your inferences. > Then you go after anyone who posts against Gestapo CPS in newsgroups, never mentioning that they > might do so because they have been innocent and yet harmed by Gestapo CPS abuses or maybe they have > not been abused (yet) but find the routine violations of the civil, human, constitutional, due > process and parental rights of innocent citizens completely heinous, evil and offensive. The strong > implication

…cut me a break here, Neal… > in your words is that anyone here or in other newsgroups who posts opposition to Gestapo > CPS and their abuses is some kind of kook who is a child abuser and wishes to lash out at who they > perceive as their victimizer anonymously and finding similar folk to themselves. > Again there is no > mention of folks like me and the vast majority of those here who post against the offenses and > abuses of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry. > Your words were not as innocent as you seem to wish they were. And I took them as they came across > in the context of the discussion.

You took them in the context in which you wished to interpret them. > > In my opinion, the legitimacy of the removal doesn’t necessarily have > > much bearing on whether the parents or children involved are upset. > Actually in most cases it does, and innocents who have their children kidnapped on average tend to > be far more upset (once the shock wears off at how heinous our own government can be to its own > innocent citizens) than guilty people. Not always… there are true jerks in the world like the > clowns who will ‘get you’ for having the audacity to turn them in if they rob you. But they are the > clear minority.

I would go along with this. I think it more likely that the more aggressive and vocal folks have probably been abused and harrassed. I also agree that the number of "true jerks" are in the minority. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I know there are governmental abuses. I also have personal experience with > > folks that were guilty as hell but were still upset that the children > > were removed. > Most parents will be upset if their children are removed… however those are not the ones who have > been posting here. Not even close, Henry, if you bothered to look into the details of each case > presented. Almost to a person the children were kidnapped for no legitimate, credible, reasonable, > rational, logical or legal reason… simply because a fascist powertripping jackbooted (in attitude > if not actual attire) goosestepper who wished to augment their department’s funding streams wanted > to and was willing to perjure themselves (with complete immunity from prosecution civilly or > criminally for their crime) to a sympathetic judge who is one of a group who are Gestapo CPS’ "VERY > VERY ACTIVE PARTNERS". > > Since I really don’t know what the reality of the > > situation is for most of the folks here, I try to respond without making > > any judgements regarding their personal information. However, I’m human, > > and thus I find my credulity occasionally tested. > Gestapo CPS does test credulity. Most people cannot bring themselves to accept the heinousness of > this agency or the criminal actions and gross violations of the civil, constitutional, human, due > process and parental rights of innocent citizens. > This of course works in favor of these anti-parent, anti-family and ultimately anti-child tyrants > because it makes it easier for them to paint those who know the truth and point it out as ‘kooks’ > because clearly could they possibly commit all these offenses? If they did certainly someone would > do something about it long ago, right? The truth is that yes they DO commit all those offenses AND > MORE, and no, no one has been willing to stand up to them and put an end to it. > Anyone who tries gets branded pro-child abuser, anti-child and finds themselves looking down the > barrel of Gestapo CPS’ vindictive retribution in the form of kidnappings of their own kids or > grandkids and general harassment of their family and themselves (and anyone who stands up for > them). In New Hampshire a politician found this out… ask Ric Werme for details… and by now > everyone should know how this happened in WENATCHEE WASHINGTON. In fact the pastor and wife who > were so targetted have STILL apparently remained targets and Gestapo CPS continues to this day to > harass them. > > > So in cases (which data shows is 85-95+% if all > > > the millions of removals (kidnappings) Gestapo CPS has perpetrated) of kidnappings by Gestapo > > > CPS why shouldn’t their victims actively work to see this abusive and heinously evil and > > > offensive agency abolished and anyone and everyone involved in kidnapping kids from innocent > > > parents held to the full force of the law for their capital crimes? Remember kidnapping is a > > > capital offense, in most states punishable by DEATH. > > Hey, if they feel that way, they have the right to express their > > opinions. After all, I said "all good and acceptable stuff". > That is a fairly dismissive attitude and tone… this is more than feelings as has been clearly and > conclusively proven. > > > > However,

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > Neal Feldman wrote: > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > > > NashCats wrote: > > > > > > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > > > > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > > > > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > > > > > > MM > > > > > > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > > > > > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > > > > > > grind with state child protection agencies. > > > > > > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > > > > > > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > > > > > > are called on the facts. > > > > > Then again, maybe that’s not it. > > > > You have an alternate scenario which fits the facts as well, Henry? > > > I already alluded it, but I’ll elaborate. I have no doubt that one of > > > the most emotionally wrenching and infuriating experiences parents or > > > children can have is to be forcibly separated from each other. Even in > > > cases of horrible abuse it is not unusual for children and their parents > > > to love each other and desire to stay together. This, in turn, has > > > resulted in a number of folks with intense hatred of the system that > > > instigated the separation. Thus, it’s no surprise that some of these > > > folks seek out the enemy or ignorant (from their perspective) wherever > > > they think they can find them, including usenet groups. It’s a great > > > place to vent. They can be anonymous if they wish, they can be as > > > aggressive as they wish with minimal fear of any meaningful reprisal, > > > they can meet with others that may sympathize or empathize with them , > > > and they might even be successful in persuading some folks to change > > > their perception. All good and acceptable stuff. > > Again you assume that those parents posting here had legitimate accusations against them when > > in fact the evidence shows quite the opposite. > Actually, I think if you review my post you’ll note that I didn’t make > any assumptions regarding the legitimacy of accusations against parents.

Actually the implication is quite definite, since you only mention people who were NOT wrongly accused and who would deny… the implication is that anyone who denies is guilty because some guilty people have denied. Nowhere in your text above do you acknowledge innocent parents having their kids kidnapped… only that some guilty people may look at it that way. Also you mentioned that some abused children still want to stay with their abusive parents which again implies that all children who want to stay with their parents because some children who are abused wish to stay with their abusive parents. Again nowhere in your text do you even consider the concept of an innocent child kidnapped from innocent parents by Gestapo CPS abuses, even though this IS the case in 85-95+% of removals which in such cases are nothing less than kidnappings. Again the implication is extremely clear. Then you go after anyone who posts against Gestapo CPS in newsgroups, never mentioning that they might do so because they have been innocent and yet harmed by Gestapo CPS abuses or maybe they have not been abused (yet) but find the routine violations of the civil, human, constitutional, due process and parental rights of innocent citizens completely heinous, evil and offensive. The strong implication in your words is that anyone here or in other newsgroups who posts opposition to Gestapo CPS and their abuses is some kind of kook who is a child abuser and wishes to lash out at who they perceive as their victimizer anonymously and finding similar folk to themselves. Again there is no mention of folks like me and the vast majority of those here who post against the offenses and abuses of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry. Your words were not as innocent as you seem to wish they were. And I took them as they came across in the context of the discussion. > In my opinion, the legitimacy of the removal doesn’t necessarily have > much bearing on whether the parents or children involved are upset.

Actually in most cases it does, and innocents who have their children kidnapped on average tend to be far more upset (once the shock wears off at how heinous our own government can be to its own innocent citizens) than guilty people. Not always… there are true jerks in the world like the clowns who will ‘get you’ for having the audacity to turn them in if they rob you. But they are the clear minority. > I know there are governmental abuses. I also have personal experience with > folks that were guilty as hell but were still upset that the children > were removed.

Most parents will be upset if their children are removed… however those are not the ones who have been posting here. Not even close, Henry, if you bothered to look into the details of each case presented. Almost to a person the children were kidnapped for no legitimate, credible, reasonable, rational, logical or legal reason… simply because a fascist powertripping jackbooted (in attitude if not actual attire) goosestepper who wished to augment their department’s funding streams wanted to and was willing to perjure themselves (with complete immunity from prosecution civilly or criminally for their crime) to a sympathetic judge who is one of a group who are Gestapo CPS’ "VERY VERY ACTIVE PARTNERS". > Since I really don’t know what the reality of the > situation is for most of the folks here, I try to respond without making > any judgements regarding their personal information. However, I’m human, > and thus I find my credulity occasionally tested.

Gestapo CPS does test credulity. Most people cannot bring themselves to accept the heinousness of this agency or the criminal actions and gross violations of the civil, constitutional, human, due process and parental rights of innocent citizens. This of course works in favor of these anti-parent, anti-family and ultimately anti-child tyrants because it makes it easier for them to paint those who know the truth and point it out as ‘kooks’ because clearly could they possibly commit all these offenses? If they did certainly someone would do something about it long ago, right? The truth is that yes they DO commit all those offenses AND MORE, and no, no one has been willing to stand up to them and put an end to it. Anyone who tries gets branded pro-child abuser, anti-child and finds themselves looking down the barrel of Gestapo CPS’ vindictive retribution in the form of kidnappings of their own kids or grandkids and general harassment of their family and themselves (and anyone who stands up for them). In New Hampshire a politician found this out… ask Ric Werme for details… and by now everyone should know how this happened in WENATCHEE WASHINGTON. In fact the pastor and wife who were so targetted have STILL apparently remained targets and Gestapo CPS continues to this day to harass them. > > So in cases (which data shows is 85-95+% if all > > the millions of removals (kidnappings) Gestapo CPS has perpetrated) of kidnappings by Gestapo > > CPS why shouldn’t their victims actively work to see this abusive and heinously evil and > > offensive agency abolished and anyone and everyone involved in kidnapping kids from innocent > > parents held to the full force of the law for their capital crimes? Remember kidnapping is a > > capital offense, in most states punishable by DEATH. > Hey, if they feel that way, they have the right to express their > opinions. After all, I said "all good and acceptable stuff".

That is a fairly dismissive attitude and tone… this is more than feelings as has been clearly and conclusively proven. > > > However, I don’t think most foster parents have nearly as much emotional > > > baggage. When they do need support, despite the name of the > > > newsgroup, this newsgroup clearly isn’t the place to get it. One or two > > > posts will get enough aggressive reponses to discourage them from any > > > notions of getting support. If they aren’t getting support, why stick > > > around and subject themselves to abuse? > > If they do not post statements innocent parents and those who rightly oppose Gestapo CPS and > > the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry would find offensive there is little likelihood they > > will get the truth explained to them. > I guess I disagree. I’ve seen instances where foster parents posted > fairly innocuous stuff and got the "truth" explained to them.

I guess it all depends on what you consider to be ‘innocuous stuff’… see my examination of your own text above explaining to you some things you clearly seem to have missed. > In fact, I > don’t think I would be going to far out on a limb to submit that there > are some folks that post here that are simply opposed to foster parents > and thus find *anything* they say (as well as their existance) as offensive.

There are a great many fosters who I find offensive and a great many attitudes amongst fosters which I find oppositional. As I said when I first came to this ng there was nothing but three solid months of posts of the most vitriolic anti-parent and anti-family anti-reunification and conspiracy to kidnap postings you could ever stomach! And it was uniform… not a single person was saying BOO about it. Then I did, and I got jumped by the entire group en masse. I guess they expected me to just run away… but I didn’t. I continued to

Response:

Ron wrote: > nashc…@aol.com (NashCats) wrote in message <news:20010713191420.01196.00000331@ng-dd1.aol.com>… > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > MM > Hi there MM. > Your right, reading here can be very discouraging.

Considering, MoRon Mitty, the heinous offensiveness I found here when I first arrived and that you continue to spew and support in your Gestapo CPS apologist screeds, I would certainly hope such as you might be discouraged… that can only be a Good Thing ™ considering your clear anti-family, anti-parent and ultimately anti-child agenda. > Avoid reading here, because as you see there are few FP’s here.

Translation: Remain ignorant or if you find out the truth you will no longer support the system MoRon Mitty so dearly loves (as it provides him such a boost to his personal income) > We can help, we can provide support, but the bulk of the answers you > get here will be things you don’t want or really need.

Like the truth, huh MoRon Mitty? Sure seems to be your enemy usually, doesn’t it? — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

Wex Wimpy wrote: > Hi if you go to http://www.westworld.com/~barbara/ > There are links there to a fosterparent chat room if you go there at > night there are a lot of fosterparents there that would love to help > you. You have to take what is sayed

Great education and intellect you have there, Wex… ’sayed’ huh? <chuckle> > by a lot of people on this list > with a grain of salt most are parents that had there kids pulled for > abuse of some sort and blame all there problems on other people which > happen a lot. .

Interesting, Wex, since virtually NONE of those posting here have had heir kids taken for any legitimate and justifiable reason at all… and in fact 85-95+% of all removals nationwide by Gestapo CPS have been shown to have had no legitimate justification to support the rrmovals. So it is quite interesting for you to continue to perpetuate the lies of Gestapo CPS and foster parents in your anti-family and anti-parent (and ultimately anti-child) screeds, Wex. Quite interesting indeed. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > Neal Feldman wrote: > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > NashCats wrote: > > > > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > > > > MM > > > > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > > > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > > > > grind with state child protection agencies. > > > > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > > > > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > > > > are called on the facts. > > > Then again, maybe that’s not it. > > You have an alternate scenario which fits the facts as well, Henry? > I already alluded it, but I’ll elaborate. I have no doubt that one of > the most emotionally wrenching and infuriating experiences parents or > children can have is to be forcibly separated from each other. Even in > cases of horrible abuse it is not unusual for children and their parents > to love each other and desire to stay together. This, in turn, has > resulted in a number of folks with intense hatred of the system that > instigated the separation. Thus, it’s no surprise that some of these > folks seek out the enemy or ignorant (from their perspective) wherever > they think they can find them, including usenet groups. It’s a great > place to vent. They can be anonymous if they wish, they can be as > aggressive as they wish with minimal fear of any meaningful reprisal, > they can meet with others that may sympathize or empathize with them , > and they might even be successful in persuading some folks to change > their perception. All good and acceptable stuff.

Again you assume that those parents posting here had legitimate accusations against them when in fact the evidence shows quite the opposite. So in cases (which data shows is 85-95+% if all the millions of removals (kidnappings) Gestapo CPS has perpetrated) of kidnappings by Gestapo CPS why shouldn’t their victims actively work to see this abusive and heinously evil and offensive agency abolished and anyone and everyone involved in kidnapping kids from innocent parents held to the full force of the law for their capital crimes? Remember kidnapping is a capital offense, in most states punishable by DEATH. > However, I don’t think most foster parents have nearly as much emotional > baggage. When they do need support, despite the name of the > newsgroup, this newsgroup clearly isn’t the place to get it. One or two > posts will get enough aggressive reponses to discourage them from any > notions of getting support. If they aren’t getting support, why stick > around and subject themselves to abuse?

If they do not post statements innocent parents and those who rightly oppose Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry would find offensive there is little likelihood they will get the truth explained to them. For example Wex Wimpy posted his little private email conspiracy email lists for quite some time and no one said boo… then he started his anti-parent and anti-family BS and attacks against newsgroup posters and his promotion of the rhetoric and propaganda of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry… and THAT is when people have rightly begun to respond to his BS with the facts, evidence and truth. > A few foster parents may stick > around to see what’s posted(such as myself), but then I suspect they > aren’t looking for support here. I don’t. My guess is that those foster > parents who are interested in child activisim are posting more actively > in other groups.

Child activism as apparently defined as anti-family, anti-parent and ultimately anti-child slavish and sycophantic support and apologist treatment of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry. That does tend to be the end result in most cases, does it not? > Regardless, my point is that this group is indeed one-sided and I really > don’t believe it has to do with the "light of truth" as much as it does > with a desire of folks seeking support to avoid a lot of opinions which > don’t really pertain to their particular problems.

Reworded this is that they do not want to be exposed to legitimate criticism of their anti-family, anti-parent and ultimately anti-child antics, nor to the facts and truth which show that children in foster ‘care’ are 8 to 10 TIMES (or more) likely to be abused, neglected or killed as children in their real families, and that children who have ever been in foster care fare FAR worse than kids who have never been in foster care, or that 85-95+% of those put in foster care by Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry should never have been removed from the custody of their parents and family in the first place or the constant occurrence of cases such as has been detailed here where foster parents are merely in it for the meat market aspect… to find a child they can adopt after undermining and derailing reunification and having parental rights terminated to make the kidnapping complete. I agree with you, these are all the well established, clearly and conclusively proven facts that foster ‘care’ people really do not want to know about, see or have anyone else discuss or be aware of. > > > > Just like if the question is "In base 10 and whole numbers what does 2+2 equal?" > > > > any group claiming the answer to be other than 4 would tend to be seen as the > > > > minority opionion, true? > > > I’m not sure what your point is with this question. I think, given the > > > parameters listed, anyone answering anything different than four would > > > simply be wrong. > > There are those who consider the statements of the supporters of Gestapo CPS and the > > Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry such as MoRon Mitty and Wex Wimpy to be just as > > wrong. > They are certainly entitled to their points of view.

The facts and evidence clearly and conclusively prove them right, just like basic math proves those with the answer of 4 in the example above correct. We are not speaking of opinions or points of view, but instead of clearly and objectively determined right and wrong. PERIOD. Why is it that when fosters get painted into a corner where they have to admit they are wrong instead of honestly doing so they simply try and desperately claim that anything they disagree with is ‘mere opinion’? Why is that, Henry? > > > But I’m pretty sure you’re not suggesting that just > > > because an opinion is in the minority that it is wrong, > > Of course not, Henry. Where did you get that I did? > I said I was pretty sure you didn’t, but I feel your post could have been > read that way.

Only by a biased buffoon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > any more than a wrong opinion isn’t necessarily in the minority. > > Absolutely. > > > > > There are also many people that find foster parenting a rewarding > > > > > experience and who do a lot for their community by their service. I > > > > > recommend you look up your local foster parent association and find an > > > > > array of foster parents to talk to. But whatever you do, be honest with > > > > > yourself regarding what to expect as a foster parent. It can be > > > > > emotionally wrenching and it will almost certainly change how you view > > > > > the world. > > > > It tends to reeducate you into an anti-parent anti-family Gestapo CPS > apologist who > > > has been deluded into seeking child abuse and neglect under every > rock and behind > > > every tree. > > > Not in my experience. > > Well, those who turn out like MoRon Mitty and Wex Wimpy seem to have… but granted, the > > majority see the offensiveness and simply refuse to be party to the crimes against > > families any more. > > > > But that is just how those who have presented their positions here have come > > > > across. > > > What can I say? Objectivity is in the eye of the beholder. > > Actually not, by definition, but whatever… > It wasn’t meant as a statement of fact, it was intended to be ironical…

It was just nonsensical. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - Neal Feldman wrote: > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > > > NashCats wrote: > > > > > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > > > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > > > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > > > > > MM > > > > > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > > > > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > > > > > grind with state child protection agencies. > > > > > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > > > > > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > > > > > are called on the facts. > > > > Then again, maybe that’s not it. > > > You have an alternate scenario which fits the facts as well, Henry? > > I already alluded it, but I’ll elaborate. I have no doubt that one of > > the most emotionally wrenching and infuriating experiences parents or > > children can have is to be forcibly separated from each other. Even in > > cases of horrible abuse it is not unusual for children and their parents > > to love each other and desire to stay together. This, in turn, has > > resulted in a number of folks with intense hatred of the system that > > instigated the separation. Thus, it’s no surprise that some of these > > folks seek out the enemy or ignorant (from their perspective) wherever > > they think they can find them, including usenet groups. It’s a great > > place to vent. They can be anonymous if they wish, they can be as > > aggressive as they wish with minimal fear of any meaningful reprisal, > > they can meet with others that may sympathize or empathize with them , > > and they might even be successful in persuading some folks to change > > their perception. All good and acceptable stuff. > Again you assume that those parents posting here had legitimate accusations against them when > in fact the evidence shows quite the opposite.

Actually, I think if you review my post you’ll note that I didn’t make any assumptions regarding the legitimacy of accusations against parents. In my opinion, the legitimacy of the removal doesn’t necessarily have much bearing on whether the parents or children involved are upset. I know there are governmental abuses. I also have personal experience with folks that were guilty as hell but were still upset that the children were removed. Since I really don’t know what the reality of the situation is for most of the folks here, I try to respond without making any judgements regarding their personal information. However, I’m human, and thus I find my credulity occasionally tested. > So in cases (which data shows is 85-95+% if all > the millions of removals (kidnappings) Gestapo CPS has perpetrated) of kidnappings by Gestapo > CPS why shouldn’t their victims actively work to see this abusive and heinously evil and > offensive agency abolished and anyone and everyone involved in kidnapping kids from innocent > parents held to the full force of the law for their capital crimes? Remember kidnapping is a > capital offense, in most states punishable by DEATH.

Hey, if they feel that way, they have the right to express their opinions. After all, I said "all good and acceptable stuff". > > However, I don’t think most foster parents have nearly as much emotional > > baggage. When they do need support, despite the name of the > > newsgroup, this newsgroup clearly isn’t the place to get it. One or two > > posts will get enough aggressive reponses to discourage them from any > > notions of getting support. If they aren’t getting support, why stick > > around and subject themselves to abuse? > If they do not post statements innocent parents and those who rightly oppose Gestapo CPS and > the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry would find offensive there is little likelihood they > will get the truth explained to them.

I guess I disagree. I’ve seen instances where foster parents posted fairly innocuous stuff and got the "truth" explained to them. In fact, I don’t think I would be going to far out on a limb to submit that there are some folks that post here that are simply opposed to foster parents and thus find *anything* they say (as well as their existance) as offensive. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For example Wex Wimpy posted his little private email conspiracy email lists for quite some > time and no one said boo… then he started his anti-parent and anti-family BS and attacks > against newsgroup posters and his promotion of the rhetoric and propaganda of Gestapo CPS and > the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry… and THAT is when people have rightly begun to > respond to his BS with the facts, evidence and truth. > > A few foster parents may stick > > around to see what’s posted(such as myself), but then I suspect they > > aren’t looking for support here. I don’t. My guess is that those foster > > parents who are interested in child activisim are posting more actively > > in other groups. > Child activism as apparently defined as anti-family, anti-parent and ultimately anti-child > slavish and sycophantic support and apologist treatment of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and > Kidnapping Industry.

I feel you’re drawing assumptions again. I didn’t characterize "child activism" in any way. I just said that whatever some foster parents’ consider "child activism", they probably post about it in other newsgroups. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That does tend to be the end result in most cases, does it not? > > Regardless, my point is that this group is indeed one-sided and I really > > don’t believe it has to do with the "light of truth" as much as it does > > with a desire of folks seeking support to avoid a lot of opinions which > > don’t really pertain to their particular problems. > Reworded this is that they do not want to be exposed to legitimate criticism of their > anti-family, anti-parent and ultimately anti-child antics, nor to the facts and truth which > show that children in foster ‘care’ are 8 to 10 TIMES (or more) likely to be abused, neglected > or killed as children in their real families, and that children who have ever been in foster > care fare FAR worse than kids who have never been in foster care, or that 85-95+% of those put > in foster care by Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry should never have > been removed from the custody of their parents and family in the first place or the constant > occurrence of cases such as has been detailed here where foster parents are merely in it for > the meat market aspect… to find a child they can adopt after undermining and derailing > reunification and having parental rights terminated to make the kidnapping complete.

That is your rewording, not mine. > I agree with you, these are all the well established, clearly and conclusively proven facts > that foster ‘care’ people really do not want to know about, see or have anyone else discuss or > be aware of.

You are mistaken. I don’t agree with this mischaracterization of what I said. Nor do I agree with all of your "facts" nor what you imply the "facts" indicate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > Just like if the question is "In base 10 and whole numbers what does 2+2 equal?" > > > > > any group claiming the answer to be other than 4 would tend to be seen as the > > > > > minority opionion, true? > > > > I’m not sure what your point is with this question. I think, given the > > > > parameters listed, anyone answering anything different than four would > > > > simply be wrong. > > > There are those who consider the statements of the supporters of Gestapo CPS and the > > > Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry such as MoRon Mitty and Wex Wimpy to be just as > > > wrong. > > They are certainly entitled to their points of view. > The facts and evidence clearly and conclusively prove them right, just like basic math proves > those with the answer of 4 in the example above correct.

No, I’m sorry. This is a blanket statement and I don’t think anything involving human values and institions are so easily or neatly reduced to simple mathematical logic. > We are not speaking of opinions or points of view, but instead of clearly and objectively > determined right and wrong. PERIOD.

Wrong again. > Why is it that when fosters get painted into a corner where they have to admit they are wrong > instead of honestly doing so they simply try and desperately claim that anything they disagree > with is ‘mere opinion’? > Why is that, Henry?

What’s so "mere" about opinion? Whole civilizations have been built and destroyed by it. That said, I really don’t know. Maybe they just don’t agree with you and they’re tired of arguing, so they say it to be nice. It’s been my observation that this seems to be a common behavior amongst all people — not just "fosters". > > > > But I’m pretty sure you’re not suggesting that just > > > > because an opinion is in the minority that it is wrong, > > > Of course not, Henry. Where did you get that I did? > > I said I was pretty sure you didn’t, but I feel your post could have been > > read that way. > Only by a biased buffoon.

Nah. I stand by my original evaluation. I think your average person could have misinterpreted what you meant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > any more than a wrong opinion isn’t necessarily in the minority. > > > Absolutely. > > > > > > There are also many people that find foster parenting a rewarding > > > > > > experience and who do a lot for their community by their service. I > > > > > > recommend you look up your local foster parent

Response:

NashCats chewed some cardboard to form these letters <20010713191420.01196.00000…@ng-dd1.aol.com>: >I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find >some foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and >wha I read hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? >MM

Yes, check out some other groups. I came here looking for the same thing, and I have been called names and insulted. This is not support for foster parents, this is merely an anti-CPS group. If you would like a great supportive group for foster parents, email me at shari2k@go . com and I will send you the one I belong to. Great bunch of people! Shari — To reply by e-mail, please remove AZAAM from my address.

Response:

nashc…@aol.com (NashCats) wrote in message <news:20010713191420.01196.00000331@ng-dd1.aol.com>… > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > MM

Hi there MM. Your right, reading here can be very discouraging. Checking with your local agency is a great idea. They can advise you of if there is a local foster parents support group or an association. Contacting either of those is a great place to start. If you are unable to find anything useful there you might try some of the web locations posted by Wex Wimpy. He has the URL’s for some national email news groups that actually perform a positive form of support and information dissemination for us Foster Parents. Avoid reading here, because as you see there are few FP’s here. We can help, we can provide support, but the bulk of the answers you get here will be things you don’t want or really need. Good luck in your search, and let us know how things are progressing. Ron

Response:

Hi if you go to http://www.westworld.com/~barbara/ There are links there to a fosterparent chat room if you go there at night there are a lot of fosterparents there that would love to help you. You have to take what is sayed by a lot of people on this list with a grain of salt most are parents that had there kids pulled for abuse of some sort and blame all there problems on other people which happen a lot. . Hope to hear from you soon.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > Neal Feldman wrote: > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > NashCats wrote: > > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > > MM > > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > > grind with state child protection agencies. > > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > > are called on the facts. > Then again, maybe that’s not it.

You have an alternate scenario which fits the facts as well, Henry? > > Just like if the question is "In base 10 and whole numbers what does 2+2 equal?" > > any group claiming the answer to be other than 4 would tend to be seen as the > > minority opionion, true? > I’m not sure what your point is with this question. I think, given the > parameters listed, anyone answering anything different than four would > simply be wrong.

There are those who consider the statements of the supporters of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry such as MoRon Mitty and Wex Wimpy to be just as wrong. > But I’m pretty sure you’re not suggesting that just > because an opinion is in the minority that it is wrong,

Of course not, Henry. Where did you get that I did? > any more than a wrong opinion isn’t necessarily in the minority.

Absolutely. > > > There are also many people that find foster parenting a rewarding > > > experience and who do a lot for their community by their service. I > > > recommend you look up your local foster parent association and find an > > > array of foster parents to talk to. But whatever you do, be honest with > > > yourself regarding what to expect as a foster parent. It can be > > > emotionally wrenching and it will almost certainly change how you view > > > the world. > > It tends to reeducate you into an anti-parent anti-family Gestapo CPS > apologist who > has been deluded into seeking child abuse and neglect under every > rock and behind > every tree. > Not in my experience.

Well, those who turn out like MoRon Mitty and Wex Wimpy seem to have… but granted, the majority see the offensiveness and simply refuse to be party to the crimes against families any more. > > But that is just how those who have presented their positions here have come > > across. > What can I say? Objectivity is in the eye of the beholder.

Actually not, by definition, but whatever… — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

Shari wrote: > NashCats chewed some cardboard to form these letters > <20010713191420.01196.00000…@ng-dd1.aol.com>: > >I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find > >some foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and > >wha I read hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > >MM > Yes, check out some other groups. I came here looking for the same thing, > and I have been called names and insulted.

Seems to me you are exceedingly thin skinned.. and clearly cannot take criticism of your positions and your public statements at all unless they are all flowery and positive… which considering the negative nature (re:parents and families) of your positions, statements and general Gestapo CPS apologist stance is quite ironic, to say the least! <chuckle> > This is not support for foster parents, this is merely an anti-CPS group.

Actually it is a support group for people dealing with foster parenting, from ANY of the sides… that the anti-CPS side can with clear concience and honesty post their positions and fosters seem to run for the hills (likely due to their anti-family selfserving agenda and positions which we tend to illuminate and which were rampant and rabid in this ng when I first arrived) might give one such an opinion. But if one actually examines things in detail rather than just looking at a selfserving veneer one gets a more accurate picture. > If you would like a great > supportive group for foster parents, email me at shari2k@go . com and I > will send you the one I belong to. Great bunch of people!

Translation: Only one side of the issue, discussions in secret so that the criminal and anti-family conspiracy and corruption is not generally viewed. I am tempted to create a false identity and submit to several of these little kidnapper and hostageholder hideyholes and then post here the text I find there… so that they will no longer be secret anymore. Others can do so as well. Maybe they should. After the truly heinous and offensive posts I found in the three months of postings prior to my first post here it should be quite illuminating indeed… fosters actively planning and plotting the undermining and failure of reunification so they can keep the kidnapped children for themselves. I saw several whining in terror… the parents were actually doing what was expected, there was not coming into the picture any evidence showing they had ever done anything wrong, and the kids were being scheduled for return… so these kidnappers and hostage holders were begging people for what they could do to derail reunification and move towards termination of parental rights so that THEY could adopt the children permanently! Like I said, monumentally offensive in the extreme! And yet not only did no one say BOO until I did about this criminal activity, but there was plenty of support and cooperation in such requests! I fully expect that this kind of BS is what continues to persist in these email lists. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - Neal Feldman wrote: > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > Neal Feldman wrote: > > > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > > > NashCats wrote: > > > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > > > MM > > > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > > > grind with state child protection agencies. > > > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > > > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > > > are called on the facts. > > Then again, maybe that’s not it. > You have an alternate scenario which fits the facts as well, Henry?

I already alluded it, but I’ll elaborate. I have no doubt that one of the most emotionally wrenching and infuriating experiences parents or children can have is to be forcibly separated from each other. Even in cases of horrible abuse it is not unusual for children and their parents to love each other and desire to stay together. This, in turn, has resulted in a number of folks with intense hatred of the system that instigated the separation. Thus, it’s no surprise that some of these folks seek out the enemy or ignorant (from their perspective) wherever they think they can find them, including usenet groups. It’s a great place to vent. They can be anonymous if they wish, they can be as aggressive as they wish with minimal fear of any meaningful reprisal, they can meet with others that may sympathize or empathize with them , and they might even be successful in persuading some folks to change their perception. All good and acceptable stuff. However, I don’t think most foster parents have nearly as much emotional baggage. When they do need support, despite the name of the newsgroup, this newsgroup clearly isn’t the place to get it. One or two posts will get enough aggressive reponses to discourage them from any notions of getting support. If they aren’t getting support, why stick around and subject themselves to abuse? A few foster parents may stick around to see what’s posted(such as myself), but then I suspect they aren’t looking for support here. I don’t. My guess is that those foster parents who are interested in child activisim are posting more actively in other groups. Regardless, my point is that this group is indeed one-sided and I really don’t believe it has to do with the "light of truth" as much as it does with a desire of folks seeking support to avoid a lot of opinions which don’t really pertain to their particular problems. > > > Just like if the question is "In base 10 and whole numbers what does 2+2 equal?" > > > any group claiming the answer to be other than 4 would tend to be seen as the > > > minority opionion, true? > > I’m not sure what your point is with this question. I think, given the > > parameters listed, anyone answering anything different than four would > > simply be wrong. > There are those who consider the statements of the supporters of Gestapo CPS and the > Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry such as MoRon Mitty and Wex Wimpy to be just as > wrong.

They are certainly entitled to their points of view. > > But I’m pretty sure you’re not suggesting that just > > because an opinion is in the minority that it is wrong, > Of course not, Henry. Where did you get that I did?

I said I was pretty sure you didn’t, but I feel your post could have been read that way. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > any more than a wrong opinion isn’t necessarily in the minority. > Absolutely. > > > > There are also many people that find foster parenting a rewarding > > > > experience and who do a lot for their community by their service. I > > > > recommend you look up your local foster parent association and find an > > > > array of foster parents to talk to. But whatever you do, be honest with > > > > yourself regarding what to expect as a foster parent. It can be > > > > emotionally wrenching and it will almost certainly change how you view > > > > the world. > > > It tends to reeducate you into an anti-parent anti-family Gestapo CPS > apologist who > > has been deluded into seeking child abuse and neglect under every > rock and behind > > every tree. > > Not in my experience. > Well, those who turn out like MoRon Mitty and Wex Wimpy seem to have… but granted, the > majority see the offensiveness and simply refuse to be party to the crimes against > families any more. > > > But that is just how those who have presented their positions here have come > > > across. > > What can I say? Objectivity is in the eye of the beholder. > Actually not, by definition, but whatever…

It wasn’t meant as a statement of fact, it was intended to be ironical…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - Neal Feldman wrote: > "Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > > NashCats wrote: > > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > > MM > > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > > grind with state child protection agencies. > It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS > side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they > are called on the facts.

Then again, maybe that’s not it. > Just like if the question is "In base 10 and whole numbers what does 2+2 equal?" > any group claiming the answer to be other than 4 would tend to be seen as the > minority opionion, true?

I’m not sure what your point is with this question. I think, given the parameters listed, anyone answering anything different than four would simply be wrong. But I’m pretty sure you’re not suggesting that just because an opinion is in the minority that it is wrong, any more than a wrong opinion isn’t necessarily in the minority. > > There are also many people that find foster parenting a rewarding > > experience and who do a lot for their community by their service. I > > recommend you look up your local foster parent association and find an > > array of foster parents to talk to. But whatever you do, be honest with > > yourself regarding what to expect as a foster parent. It can be > > emotionally wrenching and it will almost certainly change how you view > > the world. > It tends to reeducate you into an anti-parent anti-family Gestapo CPS apologist who > has been deluded into seeking child abuse and neglect under every rock and behind > every tree.

Not in my experience. > But that is just how those who have presented their positions here have come > across.

What can I say? Objectivity is in the eye of the beholder.

Response:

"Henry W. Moritz" wrote: > NashCats wrote: > > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > > MM > Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this > newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to > grind with state child protection agencies.

It is only appearing to be one sided because most of the pro-foster pro-Gestapo CPS side runs into the shadows like cockroaches when the light is turned on when they are called on the facts. Just like if the question is "In base 10 and whole numbers what does 2+2 equal?" any group claiming the answer to be other than 4 would tend to be seen as the minority opionion, true? > There are also many people that find foster parenting a rewarding > experience and who do a lot for their community by their service. I > recommend you look up your local foster parent association and find an > array of foster parents to talk to. But whatever you do, be honest with > yourself regarding what to expect as a foster parent. It can be > emotionally wrenching and it will almost certainly change how you view > the world.

It tends to reeducate you into an anti-parent anti-family Gestapo CPS apologist who has been deluded into seeking child abuse and neglect under every rock and behind every tree. But that is just how those who have presented their positions here have come across. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

NashCats wrote: > I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some > foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read > hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? > MM

Go ahead and read up, these folks do have stories to tell. But this newsgroup is clearly heavily one-sided with folks that have many axes to grind with state child protection agencies. There are also many people that find foster parenting a rewarding experience and who do a lot for their community by their service. I recommend you look up your local foster parent association and find an array of foster parents to talk to. But whatever you do, be honest with yourself regarding what to expect as a foster parent. It can be emotionally wrenching and it will almost certainly change how you view the world.

Response:

Advice is to read the positions, opinions, statements and proven evidence provided and take it all into account. Realize that the vast majority (85-95+%) of all removals are little more (if ANYTHING more) than kidnappings and the innocent real parents will not take kindly to it, or to your holding their children hostage in an effort to coerce and extort actions or agreements from them. Just keep that in mind, ok? — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

I’ve been reading the messages here for awhile. Guess I’d hoped to find some foster parents . . . I am considering becoming a foster parent and wha I read hear is not encouraging. Any Advice? MM

Response:

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